Grief ragas
M.Greenberg
ragas are the happy ones.
WARVIJ
Bilaskhani Todi. While many other raags have an emotional
flavoring of sorrow, this is certainly the most profound
and undiluted; its creation is attributed to Bilas Khan, son
of Mian Tansen -- on the occasion of his father's death. The
full story is too long for me to go into now, however.
There are many good recordings of Bilaskhani Todi -- I
personally enjoy Amir Khan's lp (has this been issued on CD yet?).
Warren Senders
Original music blending Indian and Western traditions;
Hindustani vocal music -- Khyal & Thumri --
for info:
http://challenge.tiac.net/users/joisprng/Senders.html
also check out:
http://www.rootsworld.com/rw/
"Beauty in music is too often confused with something
that lets the ears lie back in an easy chair."
-- Charles Ives --
Srini Pichumani
M.Greenberg <bam...@ag.arizona.edu> wrote:
>
>I was wondering what people's favorite grief ragas were. I know
>which ragas are the happy ones.
In Tamil idiom, "mukhAri vaikkirAr" means that the person is
crying or grieving... thus, mukhAri seems to take the prime
spot in this respect... but then, a Tyagaraja can make even
the bright and strident aTANA plaintive with his "E pApamu
jEsitirA"... and the generally plaintive mukhAri bright in
his "sangIta s'Astra jnAnamu"... thus, it is the sum total
of the lyrics, structure of the composition, AND the raga
that accounts for the listener's grief/joy rather than hard
and fast categories.
-Srini.
Milind Bhandarkar
>
> The canonical grief raga in Hindustani tradition is Raga
> Bilaskhani Todi. While many other raags have an emotional
> flavoring of sorrow, this is certainly the most profound
> and undiluted; its creation is attributed to Bilas Khan, son
> of Mian Tansen -- on the occasion of his father's death. The
> full story is too long for me to go into now, however.
>
> There are many good recordings of Bilaskhani Todi -- I
> personally enjoy Amir Khan's lp (has this been issued on CD yet?).
Warren,
whenever you have time, can you let us know the story ? I love
Bilaskhani Todi too. I have several recordings of BKT:
Amir Khan,
Rashid Khan,
Jitendra Abhisheki,
Sulochana Brahaspati
Kumar Gandharva
Sanjeev Abhyankar.
I would shortly be getting BKT by Pt. Jasraj.
milind
--
__Milind_A._Bhandarkar___________...@cs.uiuc.edu_
(W)_____2508,DCL,1304,W.Springfield_Ave_Urbana_IL_61801_____(217)_333_5827_____
______________________________________________Cogito,Ergo_Paid_Less____________
Souvik Das
>
> WARVIJ wrote:
> >
> > The canonical grief raga in Hindustani tradition is Raga
> > Bilaskhani Todi. While many other raags have an emotional
> > flavoring of sorrow, this is certainly the most profound
> > and undiluted; its creation is attributed to Bilas Khan, son
> > of Mian Tansen -- on the occasion of his father's death. The
> > full story is too long for me to go into now, however.
> >
> > There are many good recordings of Bilaskhani Todi -- I
> > personally enjoy Amir Khan's lp (has this been issued on CD yet?).
>
> Warren,
>
> whenever you have time, can you let us know the story ? I love
> Bilaskhani Todi too. I have several recordings of BKT:
>
> Amir Khan,
> Rashid Khan,
> Jitendra Abhisheki,
> Sulochana Brahaspati
> Kumar Gandharva
> Sanjeev Abhyankar.
>
> I would shortly be getting BKT by Pt. Jasraj.
>
> milind
>
> --
>
Personally I think that Darbari Kannada is also one of the great grief
ragas. I have several compositions of this particular raga though I
must say that the one composed by Ustad Vilayat Khan is by far
the ultimate in any creative activity. Compositions by Amjad Khan,
Rashid Khan fall so much short of this master creation
souvik das
Sajjad Khaliq
: I was wondering what people's favorite grief ragas were. I know which
: ragas are the happy ones.
- Darbari Kanada
- Rageshree
- Kedar
--
Sajjad Khaliq / Hamilton / Ontario / Canada
Ranganathan Srikanth
The various shades of grief, ranging from a pitiable state to
mild desolation could be felt from a range of melodies in carnatic music.
Ofcourse there is really nothing much express in words rather
than to experience it. It very strongly depends on the
structure and lyrics of the composition. Dikshitar krithis
mostly suggest a contemplative shAnta bhava, largely from a
sloka oriented matter-of-fact type lyrics. Many of NandanAr charithiram songs
by gopAlakrshna bharathi, thyagarAja krithis and shyama shastri
krithis are abound with dhukha rasa.
mukhAri, mAnji, shubhapantuvarAli are some ragas which suggest
dhukha rasa but they don't form an exclusive set for dhukha rasa.
There is a very beautiful jayadeva ashtapadhi sung in mukhari (vadasi...)
which is romantically pleading in rasa.
Getting into padas, javalis one gets more involved
in this great rasa.
srikanth
sayan bhattacharyya
Souvik Das <sou...@ra.cs.uga.edu> wrote:
>
>Personally I think that Darbari Kannada is also one of the great grief
>ragas.
Traditionally darbari kanaRa is associated more with a reflective,
sombre mood than with grief.
-Sayan.
na8371400-Chandramouli
> In Tamil idiom, "mukhAri vaikkirAr" means that the person is
> crying or grieving... thus, mukhAri seems to take the prime
> spot in this respect... but then, a Tyagaraja can make even
> the bright and strident aTANA plaintive with his "E pApamu
> jEsitirA"... and the generally plaintive mukhAri bright in
> his "sangIta s'Astra jnAnamu"... thus, it is the sum total
> of the lyrics, structure of the composition, AND the raga
> that accounts for the listener's grief/joy rather than hard
> and fast categories.
>
> -Srini.
Well said!! And these categories are highly subjective. As a
case in point, for the life of me I can not understand why
Mukhari is associated with crying or grieving. To me, Mukhari
is associated with a pious state of mind( Dheiveega Raga ).
Considering that Mukhari is a close cousin of Bhairavi
( atleast in my way of looking at Ragas), I do not know how and
why Mukhari got this label and not Bhairavi. Anyone musicologically
inclined care to comment? Thanks.
Chandra
B. Chandramouli
>
>
> mukhAri, mAnji, shubhapantuvarAli are some ragas which suggest
> dhukha rasa but they don't form an exclusive set for dhukha rasa.
For me, ShubhapantuvarAli definitely invokes dhukha but not mukhAri or mAnji.
>
> There is a very beautiful jayadeva ashtapadhi sung in mukhari (vadasi...)
> which is romantically pleading in rasa.
Mukhari is one of my top 5 favourite ragas. I have not heard the song
you mentioned. The romantic rasa connection is an added plus!! Tell me
where and how I can get a copy. Thanks very much.
Chandra
Ranganathan Srikanth
>>
>> There is a very beautiful jayadeva ashtapadhi sung in mukhari (vadasi...)
>> which is romantically pleading in rasa.
>Mukhari is one of my top 5 favourite ragas. I have not heard the song
>you mentioned. The romantic rasa connection is an added plus!! Tell me
>where and how I can get a copy. Thanks very much.
At ann arbor we were fortunate to interact with a very fine bharatanatyam dancer
from kalakshetra (Navtej Singh Johar, yes a sardar!!). He had this pada
recorded and his abhinaya to it was splendid.
KEDAR S NAPHADE
>
> M.Greenberg (bam...@ag.arizona.edu) wrote:
> : I was wondering what people's favorite grief ragas were. I know which
> : ragas are the happy ones.
>
> - Darbari Kanada
> - Rageshree
> - Kedar
Darbari Kanada is a raag of depth and sombre mood, not grief. Nor do I
quite agree with Kedar and Rageshree being grief raagas...
Kedar has a more devotional mood while I have heard several shringaar -
rasa compositions in rageshri. The classic grief raag is ofcourse
bilaskhani todi which is attributed to
Bilaskhan - son of Mia Tansen - who is supposed to have sung it after
Tansen died.
V. Chandramouli
Crying in Mukhari or in Tamizh,"Oppari in Mukkari" :-)
As the other Chandramouli puts it, I think modds with ragas is rather subjective
though certain trends might be universal. for example, I will like to hear
from someone who finds Shubhapanthuvarali evoking a great feeling of joy.
However, I personally find this ragam to be great.
--Chandramouli
WARVIJ
>Warren,
>whenever you have time, can you let us know the story ?
There are multiple versions of the story. One of the two
basic premises is that in the 2 or 3 days immediately
after Tansen's death there was dispute as to who would be the
number one singer in the court, and a competition was arranged.
Tansen's son, Bilas Khan, was overwhelmed with grief, and
began singing, composing a raag on the spot which mixed elements
from Bhairavi and Todi. According to the informed sources (all
of whom write about the event as if they were standing there)
the rendition was so powerful and affecting that (depending on
who you cite)
1 - the earth trembled;
2 - the coffin of Tansen shook;
3 - Tansen's corpse sat up and gave Bilas Khan a sign of blessing.
An alternative version eliminates the "singing competition," merely
setting Bilas Khan as living an aescetic life in the forest. Hearing
of his father's death, he made his way to the darbar; the rest proceeds
as above.
One version has him in the forest, but bursting out of the
underbrush just as the competitive court musicians are getting
underway with their singing contest. It would make a great
movie!
Incidentally the usual melodic sequences for Bilaskhani are
interesting, creating an alternation between two very different
pentatonic scales: S Rb Gb P Db s in ascent (equivalent to Bhoopali
Todi) and rb Nb Db M Gb Rb *Nb *Db S in descent. The shifting
passages of hemitonic and anhemitonic lines in ascent and descent
respectively create real waves of exquisite melodic tension.
It is also interesting to note that one of the most popular bada
khyals in Bilaskhani Todi "Nike Ghungariya" has a text with an
affective mood which, considered in isolation from the raag-ras,
is not grieving at all -- the poet commenting appreciatively on the
progression of a beautiful woman wearing ankle-bells!
In my opinion the proper expression of this text in khyal presentation
can create yet another level of tension, actually heightening the
feeling of loss and melancholy. This is an under-explored area and
worthy of more examination.
P J Narayanan
flat notes. [Bhairavi-that uses all flat notes, but Hindusthani
Bhairavi rag is quite another thing]. Todi is not considered to
evoke particular shOka rasa in Carnatic music, but my angle on it
is from Kathakali music, which uses Carnatic ragas. Todi will be used
in serious sad situations in Kathakali. Punnagavarali and Ahir will
be used to wail out aloud! Mukhri, strangely, is considered less sad
than Todi!
Subhapantuvarali -- Hindusthani Todi, I guess -- gives me a sense of
deep, introspective, philosophical melancholy. Sad, alright, but
something far more than that.
I guess the mood conveyed by a raga depends on the raga, the lyrics
or the situation it is used at and the listener's cultural moorings!
PJN
--
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Robotics Institute, CMU p...@cs.cmu.edu
Pittsburgh, PA 15213
---
Milind Bhandarkar
> khyals in Bilaskhani Todi "Nike Ghungariya" has a text with an
> affective mood which, considered in isolation from the raag-ras,
> is not grieving at all -- the poet commenting appreciatively on the
> progression of a beautiful woman wearing ankle-bells!
Very interesting indeed, because none of the khayaals that I have in BKT
have any shade of griving in them.
Traditionally todI is a grieving raag, so I used to wonder why almost
all the renderings of toDI and its variations have "sringaar" as theme.
Glad to know that someone else (much more knowledgeable) shares the same
sentiments.
WARVIJ
>Very interesting indeed, because none of the
>khayaals that I have in BKT
>have any shade of griving in them.
>Traditionally todI is a grieving raag, so I used to wonder
>why almost all the renderings of toDI and its
>variations have "sringaar" as theme.
Having thought a lot about it in the past couple of weeks I
feel strongly that (especially in Bilaskhani, and especially
assuming a text-sensitive treatment -- more Gwalior/Agra
than Kirana/Indore, in other words) the tension between
affectively romantic wording and melancholy music makes the
mood even more pronounced.
We should remember however that to most Westerners it all
sounds vaguely mournful! (not me, of course!) {:-)=
Warren
Chetan Vinchhi
>
> <snip>
>
>One version has him in the forest, but bursting out of the
>underbrush just as the competitive court musicians are getting
>underway with their singing contest. It would make a great
>movie!
>
I have heard yet another variation of this story. Tansen and
Bilas Khan had some sort of a disagreement (it would have been
very romantic to think that this disagreement was over how to sing
Todi !!) and father never forgave son. This was the status when
Tansen died. Overcome with grief mixed with a feeling of remorse,
Bilas Khan composed his Todi and sang it. It was then that Tansen's
body moved, in effect "forgiving" his son.
>
>Warren Senders
>
Best regards,
Chetan
PS - The "coffin shook" alternative is more or less ruled out
because Tansen probably remained a Hindu until the end and was
therefore cremated. Has this event been chronicled ?
Satya Simha
|> PS - The "coffin shook" alternative is more or less ruled out
|> because Tansen probably remained a Hindu until the end and was
|> therefore cremated. Has this event been chronicled ?
Actually, Tansen had converted to Islam once he joined Akbar's court
or in order to marry someone he loved (not sure of which).
The only one of the "Navratnas" who remained Hindu was the famous Birbal.
Source : Amar Chitra Katha
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Vishwesh Kulkarni
|> Very interesting indeed, because none of the khayaals that I have in BKT
|> have any shade of griving in them.
|> Traditionally todI is a grieving raag, so I used to wonder why almost
|> all the renderings of toDI and its variations have "sringaar" as theme.
Which todi are you talking about? Bilaskhani todi might be the only sad
todi. Gurjari todi is supposed to express pleasant thoughts. Mukhari todi is
very tender. Bahaduri todi is spiritual. Isn't todi a morning raga? Why should
people grieve at that time? Marawa, in my opinion, is melancholic.
---
Upender R. Sandadi
Does the raga 'Chakravaham' also fall into the
'grief' raga category. I heard only one song of
Thayagaraja 'EtulA BrOthuvO' in this raga and
beleive me, it tears you apart!
Also sAveri alapana can be very soulful at times.
-upender
V. Chandramouli
to me.
--Chandramouli
Sanjeev Ramabhadran
>> It is also interesting to note that one of the most popular bada
>> khyals in Bilaskhani Todi "Nike Ghungariya" has a text with an
>> affective mood which, considered in isolation from the raag-ras,
>> is not grieving at all -- the poet commenting appreciatively on the
>> progression of a beautiful woman wearing ankle-bells!
>
>have any shade of griving in them.
>Traditionally todI is a grieving raag, so I used to wonder why almost
>all the renderings of toDI and its variations have "sringaar" as theme.
>sentiments.
>
Yeah, the only one that comes to mind, is Ajoy Chakraborty's (rendered by
him anyway...) "Ankhiyaan Bhar Aayee, Kachhu Na Dikhaaee" in vilambit
ektaal...
Sanjeev