Is Pt. Jasraj a muslim?
Abhay P
>
>Namastey
>
>I have heard that Pandit Jasraj and his family were originally Muslims. A close
>family friend of Jasraj's family has told me that his name is Siraaj Khan and
>his guru Pandit Maniram was called Munir Khan.
>
>Can anybody please clarify this story?
What difference does it make whether Jasraj is Hindu or Muslim? Does it in any
way affect the quality of his music? These labels need to be kept strictly OUT
of the realm of music at least! Let's listen to the music rather than worry
about the religious affiliation of the performing artiste. IMO, any aspect of an
artiste's personal life not directly related to his/her art is not a topic for
public discussion.
Regards
Abhay
------------------
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AKapoor45
I have heard that Pandit Jasraj and his family were originally Muslims. A close
family friend of Jasraj's family has told me that his name is Siraaj Khan and
his guru Pandit Maniram was called Munir Khan.
Can anybody please clarify this story?
Ajay Kapoor
Rajan P. Parrikar
>In article , akap...@aol.com says...
>>
>What difference does it make whether Jasraj is Hindu or Muslim?
We don't know unless the original poster supplies more information
about the intent behind his query.
>Does it in any
>way affect the quality of his music?
It may.
>These labels need to be kept strictly OUT
>of the realm of music at least!
Not at all. I take it that you have never heard of "Christian music."
>Let's listen to the music rather than worry
>about the religious affiliation of the performing artiste.
>IMO, any aspect of an
>artiste's personal life not directly related to his/her art is not a topic for
>public discussion.
An artists' backround, Hindu or Muslim, may have bearing on his
preference or exposition of certain genres. It may therefore make
for an interesting public discussion. Your "I'm-more-secular-than-thou-
and-I-beg-of-you-to-take-notice" credentials have been noted.
Warm regards,
r
Abhay P
>>
>>What difference does it make whether Jasraj is Hindu or Muslim?
>
>We don't know unless the original poster supplies more information
>about the intent behind his query.
>
>>Does it in any way affect the quality of his music?
>
>It may.
Really? Not for those who listen to music for the sake of music.
>
>>These labels need to be kept strictly OUT
>>of the realm of music at least!
>
>Not at all. I take it that you have never heard of "Christian music."
No, I have not heard of "Christian music", and I do not care to. (Incidentally,
when you say "Not at all", do you mean that these labels _need_ to be attached
to music, or simply that music with these labels exists?)
>>Let's listen to the music rather than worry
>>about the religious affiliation of the performing artiste.
>>IMO, any aspect of an
>>artiste's personal life not directly related to his/her art is not a topic for
>>public discussion.
>
>An artists' backround, Hindu or Muslim, may have bearing on his
>preference or exposition of certain genres. It may therefore make
An artist's "preference or exposition of certain genres" is determined by
his/her gharaana, training, and understanding of music, not by the religious
background. If the artiste _does_ let religion enter the picture, then we have
stupid episodes like Rais Khan migrating to Pakistan saying India did not give
him his due because he's a Muslim!
My point of view will be borne out by anyone who has heard Mallikarjun Mansur
sing "Pratham All'ah" or Jasraj sing "All'ah Jaane", or Parveen Sultana's
"Bhavani Dayani" or Bade Ghulam Ali's "Hari Om Tat-sat". Or anyone who knows
that Manji Khan-saab could compose a bandish like "Deva Deva Satsang".
Any more examples needed of why religious affiliation does not matter? I'll be
more than happy to supply them!
>for an interesting public discussion. Your "I'm-more-secular-than-thou-
>and-I-beg-of-you-to-take-notice" credentials have been noted.
Being an atheist, I have no need of the label "secular". However, if some people
persist in labelling musicians with religious tags, I guess I have no choice but
to call myself more secular than them!
>Warm regards,
>
>r
Warm regards to you, too!
Abhay
>In article , akap...@aol.com says...
>>>
>>>Namastey
>>>
>>>I have heard that Pandit Jasraj and his family were originally Muslims. A close
>>>family friend of Jasraj's family has told me that his name is Siraaj Khan and
>>>his guru Pandit Maniram was called Munir Khan.
>>>
>>>Can anybody please clarify this story?
------------------
ka...@my-dejanews.com
akap...@aol.com (AKapoor45) wrote:
> Namastey
>
> I have heard that Pandit Jasraj and his family were originally Muslims. A
close
> family friend of Jasraj's family has told me that his name is Siraaj Khan and
> his guru Pandit Maniram was called Munir Khan.
>
> Can anybody please clarify this story?
>
>
does it really matter?
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum
ka...@my-dejanews.com
parr...@ferrari.colorado.edu (Rajan P. Parrikar) wrote:
> In article <6os1j9$q...@pdrn.zippo.com>, Abhay wote:
>
> >>
> >>I have heard that Pandit Jasraj and his family were originally Muslims. A
close
> >>family friend of Jasraj's family has told me that his name is Siraaj Khan
and
> >>his guru Pandit Maniram was called Munir Khan.
> >>
> >>Can anybody please clarify this story?
> >
>
> We don't know unless the original poster supplies more information
> about the intent behind his query.
>
> >Does it in any
> >way affect the quality of his music?
>
> It may.
>
> >of the realm of music at least!
>
> Not at all. I take it that you have never heard of "Christian music."
>
>
sometimes, art is associated with a religion and sometimes with a
geographical region... there is "Christian music", like there is
Islamic Architecture. but there isn't anything like Islamic music or
Hindu music... but there exists "Indian Music"... so in the indian
context, it doesn't really matter wheter the singer is muslim or
hindu... there might have been, in the past, a little influence of
religion, but Hindus and muslims having lived with each other for so
many years... this has created a single kind of music and that is
called indian music...
--
Kazim Raza Merchant
Don Wheeler
Sajjad Khaliq
: In article , akap...@aol.com says...
: >
: >I have heard that Pandit Jasraj and his family were originally Muslims. A close
: >family friend of Jasraj's family has told me that his name is Siraaj Khan and
: >his guru Pandit Maniram was called Munir Khan.
: >
: >Can anybody please clarify this story?
I was told be Imrat Khan that Pt Jasraj was indeed, a Hindu by birth, and
that it was his mother's decision to convert to Hinduism.
: What difference does it make whether Jasraj is Hindu or Muslim? Does it in any
: way affect the quality of his music? These labels need to be kept strictly OUT
: of the realm of music at least! Let's listen to the music rather than worry
: about the religious affiliation of the performing artiste. IMO, any aspect of an
: artiste's personal life not directly related to his/her art is not a topic for
: public discussion.
I would agree that whether Pt Jasraj is a Hindu and/or was a Muslim is of
no significance as far his music goes, or as Pt Jasraj as an artist. I do
however that such questions can be asked about Jasraj when he does these
Puja displays on stage before beginning his performance. Is he somewhow
trying to win over predominantly Hindu audiences? Or is he trying to show
that he is a better than Hindu that other (Hindu) artists? What relevance
do such displays have to the music he is about to perform?
--
Sajjad Khaliq / Hamilton / Ontario / Canada
Icarus
Sajjad Khaliq wrote in message <6p0r5j$nbi$1...@mohawk.hwcn.org>...
>I would agree that whether Pt Jasraj is a Hindu and/or was a Muslim is of
>no significance as far his music goes, or as Pt Jasraj as an artist. I do
>however that such questions can be asked about Jasraj when he does these
>Puja displays on stage before beginning his performance. Is he somewhow
>trying to win over predominantly Hindu audiences? Or is he trying to show
>that he is a better than Hindu that other (Hindu) artists? What relevance
>do such displays have to the music he is about to perform?
It is not a display, Jasraj sings mangalacharan before performing, it has
got nothing to do with winning hindu audience. It is customary in hindu
tradition that one begins anything hply and shubh with manglacharan and then
goes ahead and then performs that activity.
- Mishra
Sajjad Khaliq
: An artist's "preference or exposition of certain genres" is determined by
: his/her gharaana, training, and understanding of music, not by the religious
: background. If the artiste _does_ let religion enter the picture, then we have
: stupid episodes like Rais Khan migrating to Pakistan saying India did not give
: him his due because he's a Muslim!
Is that really the reason Rais Khan migrated to Pakistan?
I had heard it was so that he could marry Pakistani singer Bilkis Khanum?
I would speculate that Rais Khan did NOT leave India because he felt
poorly treated in India. Rais Khan often visits India still, and spends
considerable lengths of time in India.
Abhay P
>
>Abhay P (apha...@hotmail.com) wrote:
>(snip)
>: stupid episodes like Rais Khan migrating to Pakistan saying India did not give
>: him his due because he's a Muslim!
>
>Is that really the reason Rais Khan migrated to Pakistan?
>I had heard it was so that he could marry Pakistani singer Bilkis Khanum?
>I would speculate that Rais Khan did NOT leave India because he felt
>poorly treated in India. Rais Khan often visits India still, and spends
>considerable lengths of time in India.
In my post, I had written "Rais Khan [moved to Pakistan] _saying_ India did not
give him is due etc. The operative part here is that this is what _he said_, and
he said it in a news conference in Pakistan on arriving there. He not only said
that India had not given him his due because he was a Muslim, but that no Muslim
artiste in India was given due recognition.
This statement of his evoked a concerted response from the Indian music
community, and many artistes - specifically those of Muslim descent like
Bismillah Khan and Amjad Ali Khan - came together for a press conference where
they lambasted Rais Khan for his comments and emphasised that they did indeed
get love and respect for their art, regardless of religion.
The _real_ reason for Rais Khan leaving India is known perhaps to Rais Khan
alone! As as for the fact that "he still visits India and spends considerable
time in India", I would say that only highlights the Indian capacity for
tolerance!
Regards
Abhay
>--
>Sajjad Khaliq / Hamilton / Ontario / Canada
>
------------------
Sajjad Khaliq
: An artists' backround, Hindu or Muslim, may have bearing on his
: preference or exposition of certain genres. It may therefore make
: for an interesting public discussion. Your "I'm-more-secular-than-thou-
: and-I-beg-of-you-to-take-notice" credentials have been noted.
Could Rajan for the benefit of readers, like me, describe some of the
differences between the exposition of Indian Classical Music by Muslim
artists as compared with Hindu artists?
Raghu Seshadri
: Being an atheist, I have no need of the label "secular".
This is not obvious. They are many people in India
who say they are atheists, but have no problem
with religion playing a big role in civil law,
with govt playing a big role in religious
issues etc. These guys are atheists, but not
secular.
RS
Abhay P
point waswhether an artiste's religion makes no difference to the quality of
his/her music (my answer was "no"). If you want to start a discussion about
atheists and their stand vis-a-vis the role religion plays in non-religious
matters, we need to carry it to another forum - RMIC is not the place for it!
Regards
Abhay
In article , sesh...@cse.ucsc.edu says...
------------------
TANSEN8106
I don't care if Pt Jasraj is a hindu,muslim or even a Jehovah's Witness, he is
simply a very good artiste.
His renditions of Raags Bhimplasi, Hussaini Kanada and Nat Bhairav r out of
this world.
Who can forget the Bhimplasi bandish "ja ja apnay mandirwa".
Regards
Tansen8106
Ashok
>>
>>I have heard that Pandit Jasraj and his family were originally Muslims. A close
>>family friend of Jasraj's family has told me that his name is Siraaj Khan and
>>his guru Pandit Maniram was called Munir Khan.
>>
>>Can anybody please clarify this story?
>
>way affect the quality of his music? These labels need to be kept strictly OUT
>of the realm of music at least! Let's listen to the music rather than worry
>about the religious affiliation of the performing artiste. IMO, any aspect of an
>artiste's personal life not directly related to his/her art is not a topic for
>public discussion.
>Abhay
This is a bit too rich. It is extreme attitudes like this that end up affixing
unattractive colouration as political correctness to what is just decency
and sensitivity. What is wrong in plain curiosity about some biographical
details regarding our favourite artitsts, so long as the queries are not
invasive of their privacy?
In the past,I have asked, in this forum and elsewhere, questions such as
"Was Venkatamakhi a Kannadiga?" and "Is Shobha Gurtu from Karnataka?"
The questions did not engender the slightest ripple in marked contrast to
the stormy response to this question about Jasraj, although the questions
are qualitatively alike: all these questions are about ethnic partitioning of
artists. Religion, like language and other cultural affiliations, is part of the
personality profile of all individuals. Simply becasue we are more edgy
about religious tensions is no reason to drive personal histories undergound.
Talking about ethnicity in an uncharged, matter-of-fact way is much healthier.
Of course, it goes wihtout saying that such issues should play a very minor
role relative to substantive issues related to music.
Ashok
Sajjad Khaliq
: This is a bit too rich. It is extreme attitudes like this that end up affixing
: unattractive colouration as political correctness to what is just decency
: and sensitivity. What is wrong in plain curiosity about some biographical
: details regarding our favourite artitsts, so long as the queries are not
: invasive of their privacy?
: In the past,I have asked, in this forum and elsewhere, questions such as
: "Was Venkatamakhi a Kannadiga?" and "Is Shobha Gurtu from Karnataka?"
: The questions did not engender the slightest ripple in marked contrast to
: the stormy response to this question about Jasraj, although the questions
: are qualitatively alike: all these questions are about ethnic partitioning of
: artists. Religion, like language and other cultural affiliations, is part of the
: personality profile of all individuals. Simply becasue we are more edgy
: about religious tensions is no reason to drive personal histories undergound.
: Talking about ethnicity in an uncharged, matter-of-fact way is much healthier.
I think Ashok put it well indeed.
Why can't "biographical" questions be asked without receiving accusations
of racial and/or religious bias?
RRSINGH
Its heart breaking to read questions regarding Pandit Jasraj's religious
background. The whole thing is mischivious and started by people who are simply
jealous of him. I do not know any Muslim (doesn't matter how secular) would
call himself a "Pandit" Jasraj!
Pandit Jasraj's family (Sarswat Brahimins) comes from a small Haryanavi belt
called Mewat and the music to his poor ancestors came through a Muslim Ustad
who was a Rakhi brother to Pandit Jasraj's grand mother. Pandit Motiram (I do
not know what Muslim name this "friend" of the original writer has invented for
him) moved to Hyderabad in 1928 and suddenly died at the age of 32-35, the day
he was to be given the title of State Musician. The musically rich but
otherwise poor family moved to the earstwhile State of Sanand (Gujrat) under
the tutelage of eldest brother Pandit Mani Ram. Sanad Bapu, the King of Sanand,
appointed Pandit Mani Ram his State Musician. Beside being the royal
benefector, Sanand Bapu, a spirtual person provided the spirtual guidance to
all brothers (Pandit Moti Ram, Pandit Partap Narayan and Pandit Jasraj). Many
of the Durga Maa's compositions are written by him
Young Pandit Jasraj met Madhura Shanta Ram, daughter of legendary film director
Shri V. Shantaram in mid-fifties and got married (as a Hindu with Hindu
religious rites) in late fifties. Loosing the royal patronage after the
partition, family moved to Calcutta where all three brothers taught music to
the interested people and the childern of rich Marwaries. Slowly, the Pandit
family moved to Bombay with Pandit Partap Narayan in lead. Pandit Partap
narayan's daughters entered the filmdom with Sulakshana Pandit followed by
Divya Pandit (Love Story). Pandit Jasraj' son Shaarangdev is acknlowedged music
director for many acclaimed fims and several tele-seriels. Jatin Pandit and
Lalit Pandit (Jatin-Lalit) are the hotest music directors today and they are
nephews of Pandit Jasraj. Pandit Jasraj's daughter Durga Jasraj is an actress
and also directing a lengthy seriel on classical art forms of India.
Who am I?
My name is R. Rohit. Singh and I come from a aristocratic family with serious
nationalistic background of Rajasthan. Pandit Jasraj adopted me as his second
son in 1989. We have laughed, cried and faced many a crisis together. Liberal
by nature (as most Hindus are) we share the love of our history, religion and
the motherland. He is the only artiste in India who publically challenged the
Govt. of India to check the criminal backgrounnds of each politician (like it
checks of each artiste before conffering the titles like Padmashree etc.)
before accepting the returns of their candidacy. I have seen him crying as a
child while reading the news of killings in Punjab and Kashmir. I have
witnessed him pouring out his heart, soul and body while singing Durga stuti.
He is the only artiste I know of who went to perform at Khalsa College of
Amritsar when the terrorism was on its hight. He is the only artiste who can,
without any invitation, go to a Gurudwara of Vancouver to render the shabad or
sing a bhajan in the small temple of San Leandro without a slightest
hesitation.
Last year this "Muslim" Pandit Jasraj couraged to go to Lahore and perform in a
concert to celebrate India's 50 years of independence. The local press and
moulvis had condemmed this "Pandit" from India to come and sing his Hindu
music!
Its a shame that as a Hindu I have to write this lengthy statement to explain
the religion of my "father" Pandit Jasraj. I pray to the God that he never see
this malicious discussion going on the net.
Also, I hope it helps some of you who raised the issue or, showed curiosity to
know if he is a Hindu or...
R. Rohit Singh
San Francisco
Rajan P. Parrikar
tanse...@aol.com wrote:
>Well, I went to Pakistan last year in August,
<rest of the reference to India's #1 ghazal singer Mr Jasraj deleted>
Tansen,
Can you tell us something about the sArangiyA Zahoori Khan?
He was featured as an accompanist on the earliest Nazaqat/Salamat
plates and it is at once clear what a world-class musician he
is. An artist of such high calibre could have lived (and died)
in obscurity only in philistine Pakistan (the alliteration was
unintended, Shri Senders).
Warm regards,
r
TANSEN8106
Rohit sahib thanx alot for the info on Pt. Jasraj and clarifying the situation
on his religious background which shouldn't have arisen in the first place. We
should all keep religion away from music.
Rohit also wrote:
>Last year this "Muslim" Pandit Jasraj couraged to go to Lahore and perform in
>a
>concert to celebrate India's 50 years of independence. The local press and
>moulvis had condemmed this "Pandit" from India to come and sing his Hindu
>music!
Well, I went to Pakistan last year in August, just a month after Pandit Jasraj
ji's tour and I read all the articles concerning his visit. All the articles
which I read praised PAndit ji and there was not one single criticism of him
apart from a certain group which said that the tour coincided with the holy
month of Ramadan where muslims are meant to fast. Everybody had high praises
of him and many newspapers said this was an excellent thing in promoting
friendship between Pakistan and India.
I was also fortunate enough to hear PAndit Hariprasad ji in LAhore last August
and everyone loved his performance. He performed raag Hemawati and Shubankar
BAnerjee was on the tabla. It was a memorable concert and all the artistes of
lahore were there to hear him. Everyone in the media loved him as well.
I think these type of tours r vital in giving everone hope that maybe one day
India and PAkistan can become best of friends. I know one thing for sure, that
is the musicians of both the nations hold no grudges and are really friendly
towards each other!!!
Regards
TAnsen8106
WARVIJ
>unintended, Shri Senders).
...and ineffective. The juxtaposition of the "ph" and "p"
sounds does not make for alliteration in my book, any
more than "sh" and "s" do (as in 'Shri Senders').
Pack *that* in yer pipe 'n' puff it, Pandit Parrikar!
(alliteratively speaking).
Cheers,
W
Rajan P. Parrikar
>>philistine Pakistan (the alliteration was
>>unintended, Shri Senders).
>
>...and ineffective. The juxtaposition of the "ph" and "p"
>sounds does not make for alliteration in my book, any
>more than "sh" and "s" do (as in 'Shri Senders').
The trick, dear Safedrang, involves pronouncing the "p"
in Pakistan as "ph."
Warm regards,
r
TANSEN8106
Rajan P. Parrikar wrote:
>Can you tell us something about the sArangiyA Zahoori Khan?
Zahoori Khansahib was a brilliant sarangiya and hailed from the Dehli Gharana.
I think he was the cousin of Khsb Gami Khan (the khalifa of Dehli gharana of
tablaiyas). I have very little info on Khsb Zahoori Khan, his cousin Khsb
Ahmedi Khan was an ace sarangiya as well. I have heard some of his and Zahoori
Khsb's solo performances which were mind blowing.
I know his grandson who is a good friend so I'll try to get more information on
the family background.
Apart from Zahoori Khsb and Ahmedi Khsb, another "unknown" cool sarangiya was
Khansahib Faloosay Khan, he just rocked!!
Regards
TAnsen8106
Subraps
Let us enjoy Panditji's music and keep his background out of this newsgroup at
least.
Must we introduce these concepts here?
- Anandi.S.
Mani & Anandi Subramanian
Rms2020
the newsgroup postings, unfortunately not too many people subscribe to these
good principles. Every question or comment posted elicits a tangential debate
going into areas that have no relationship to the enjoyment or knowledge of
music. Some of the postings are extremely vituperative and personal.
Sarcastic and venomous remarks about religion (and lack thereof) and language
and regional backgrounds are all too common, meaningful discussions about music
and productive exchange of ideas and information being few and far between.
Meena Shanker
sramab...@pcc.lucent.com
Hi Meena-
Definitely agree about some of the above. However, on this thread, I don't
think the question was posed to cast any doubt upon Pandit Jasraj's status or
calibre of musicianship. Rather, I think it is quite possible for ethnic,
regional, or even religious background to have some influence on a performer
as far as what pieces or even genres of music they may choose to perform. I
think the question was most likely brought up in that spirit. If you read
rec.music.indian.misc, I think you will find SOME similar questions about
filmy personalities which are not immediately to be understood as offensive
or narrow-minded. Why should it be any different for a classical musician?
Cheers,
Sanjeev
--
Sanjeev Ramabhadran
Rms2020
>I think it is quite possible for ethnic,
>regional, or even religious background to have some influence on a performer
>as far as what pieces or even genres of music they may choose to perform. I
>think the question was most likely brought up in that spirit. If you read
>rec.music.indian.misc, I think you will find SOME similar questions about
>filmy personalities which are not immediately to be understood as offensive
>or narrow-minded. Why should it be any different for a classical musician?
>
In my response to Mani & Anandi Subramanian, I was not referring to the
postings regarding Pandit Jasraj per se. In fact, I have not read all of the
postings on that thread. What I was referring to was the general and overall
climate pervading the rmic, especially brought in by some repeat writers, who
seem to revel in taking a combative and argumentative stance where it is not
warranted by any stretch of the imagination. I am sure you have seen recent
postings on certain topics and will recognize what I am talking about. Genuine
inquiries made from the academic standpoint about the background of any
musician or any artist, which would shed more light on their art, are not
offensive, but in fact very relevant, and this is not what I objected to. In a
recent issue of the Sruti Magazine of Classical Indian Music and Dance, there
was an article on Sheik Chinna Moulana Saheb, touching upon his religion, but
the article was written very well, and treated with sensitivity and insight.
There have also been numerous writings on Jesudass and others who are not born
into the Hindu religion, but are exponents of musical compositions that have a
distinct Hindu religious vein. The basis of my objection was not so much on
"WHAT" topic is written, as much as " HOW" it is treated.
Best Wishes, Meena Shanker
Subhash Phatak
There was a posting from Pt. Jasrajajee's son himself asserting that he
is very proper and orthodox Hindu. It seems that the family is hurt by
this senseless discussion. Even then would you people like to discuss
irrelevant issue about any artiste's cast, religion etc?
I strongly irge everybody to refrain bringing in extrnuous issues on
this forum. Let us discuss music, respect all the artists for their
service to this great treasure that is Indian Classical Music.
cheers,
Subhash Phatak
anishb...@gmail.com
i.am.the....@gmail.com
Pandit ji is a living legend by the way,
On Saturday, 18 July 1998 12:30:00 UTC+5:30, Abhay wrote:
> In article , says...
> >Namastey
> >
> >I have heard that Pandit Jasraj and his family were originally Muslims. A close
> >family friend of Jasraj's family has told me that his name is Siraaj Khan and
> >his guru Pandit Maniram was called Munir Khan.
> >
> >Can anybody please clarify this story?
>
> What difference does it make whether Jasraj is Hindu or Muslim? Does it in any
> way affect the quality of his music? These labels need to be kept strictly OUT
> of the realm of music at least! Let's listen to the music rather than worry
> about the religious affiliation of the performing artiste. IMO, any aspect of an
> artiste's personal life not directly related to his/her art is not a topic for
> public discussion.
> Regards
> Abhay
>