tala and jathi korvai
would'ntyouliketoknow
> In article <45go3c$j...@news.umbc.edu> you wrote:
> : Hi I am researching Indian Dance forms and I have a question
> : about the meter or tala and the connection to jathi or the
> : footwork and movements of a dancer. I always assumed
> : that if you were dancing to adi tala for example that your
> : jathis or movements would be centered around the 8 beats or counts
> : of adi tala, I was recently told that it was not true and that
> : the movements or jathis would need to be centered around 32 counts
> : for adi and so on the jathis for each different tala would have
> : a different variable or number for the counts that the korvai
> : would involve. I do not understand this concept and am
> : desperately trying to get the details and hopefully get my
> : paper done. Any help anyone can give me will be appreciated. a
> : Thanks in advance.
>
>
> My 0.02:
>
> I don't understand the term "jAthi" in the sense that you are using it.
> In Carnatic music, when you pick a particular tAlam, the jAthi is fixed.
> For example, Adi tAlam = chaturasra jAthi triputa tAlam.
>
> True, Adi tAlam is composed of eight "beats" or intervals.
>
> However that is the just the beginning of the story. How is each of the
> eight intervals divided ?
>
> There are two factors which control this:
> (1) gati or nadai : this describes how the interval is divided
>
> eg. chaturasra gati =
> each interval is divided into 4 subintervals (tha.ka.dhi.mi)
> 1 adi tAlam = tha.ka.dhi.mi x 8
> eg. tisra gati =
> each interval is divided into 3 subintervals (tha.ki.ta)
> 1 adi tAlam = tha.ki.ta x 8
> similarly, kanta(5) = tha.ka.tha.ki.ta, misra(7) = that.ki.ta.tha.ka.dhi.mi
> samkeerna (9) = tha.ka.dhi.mi.tha.ka.tha.ki.ta
>
> (2) kAla : in the prathama (first) kAlam, under chaturasra nadai, each
> interval = tha.ka.di.mi. In the second kAlam, you double the
> number of syllables crammed into the same interval by saying
> or playing it twice as fast. In the third kalam, you have
> *four times* as many (thakadimithakadimithakadimithakadimi)...
>
> The defaults are prathama kAlam and chaturasra nadai. Since each interval
> is divided into 4 subintervals, Adi talam is said to have 32 aksharas or
> matras.
>
> Hope this helps. Please ignore this if you find that it confuses you more
> than helps you.
>
> - SriG
>
>
> --
> Sriganesh Madhvanath
> Grad student, Dept of CS, SUNY at Buffalo email: mad...@cedar.buffalo.edu
>
when I was using jathi, I meant the sollukattu and the korvai intervals,
say in a Pada varnam for example, I always assumed that the knokul or
natuvanar would have a korvai that is a multiple of eight if the varnam
was set to adhi tala, but I was told that it has to be a multiple of
32, not 8, so each jathi korvai in the varnam would have a konakul or
jathi korvai of multiples of 32, when the meter is adhi tala.
So what would happen when you had say rupaka tala, what would the multiple
be, would it be 24 or some other number around which the jathi is
choreographed and danced? I am not very proficient in all the details of
Indian music, I am a dancer and so I understood everything that you explained
to me. However, my teacher could not give me the information as she just
learnt dance, and did not study the science of dance, so even though I dance
I find it hard to follow the patterns and to remember the counts to keep in
mind when choreographing, so any help you can give me is appreciated as
I dont want to learn just dance(Bharatanatyam) without understanding how
the mechanics of the dance brings out the art in the dance. I hope to learn
all this before my Arengetram and thats why even though I have been learning
dance for some 6 years, still feel I am not ready for Arengetram. Hope
to hear from you soon.
Daniel
The deeper that sorrow carves your being, the more joy you can contain.
Kahil Gibraan
Night Hawk
about the meter or tala and the connection to jathi or the
footwork and movements of a dancer. I always assumed
that if you were dancing to adi tala for example that your
jathis or movements would be centered around the 8 beats or counts
of adi tala, I was recently told that it was not true and that
the movements or jathis would need to be centered around 32 counts
for adi and so on the jathis for each different tala would have
a different variable or number for the counts that the korvai
would involve. I do not understand this concept and am
desperately trying to get the details and hopefully get my
paper done. Any help anyone can give me will be appreciated. a
Thanks in advance.
--
David Nelson
>I always assumed
> that if you were dancing to adi tala for example that your
> jathis or movements would be centered around the 8 beats or counts
> of adi tala, I was recently told that it was not true and that
> the movements or jathis would need to be centered around 32 counts
> for adi and so on
It's true that the overall pattern will fit into a certain number of
cycles of a given tala. In adi it would mean that a whole section would
come out in multiples of eight. How the patterns that make up the
multiples of eight are arranged is another matter. For example, a tirmanam
(korvai) might have the following structure:
8+6+4, 6+2+6+2+6+3, 7+7+7, or 64 all together. At 4 pulses per beat in adi
tala, it would take two cycles to execute.
>the jathis for each different tala would have
> a different variable or number for the counts that the korvai
> would involve. I do not understand this concept
There's an easy part, and there's a hard part. The easy part is that
whatever you do has to fit the tala you're in. The above-mentioned
structure, if it were done three times, as is customary, would make a tidy
fit in adi tala (6 cycles) or rupaka tala (16 cycles), assuming 4
pulses/beat. If you wanted to do it in misra capu tala, you'd have to
a) change the korvai so that its pulse total divides by seven
b) start it at a place in the tala such that the third repetition will end
on the eduppu, or
c) do something clever like a trikala (half-time, unit-time, and
double-time, once each), which happens to make anything divisible by
seven.
The hard part is that any material can be done in any tala, and that
rhythmic genius consists in taking familiar material into unfamiliar
contexts with an aesthetic justification.
>and am
> desperately trying to get the details and hopefully get my
> paper done.
Good luck. Be in touch if you want to. Use the fax # below as a reliable
voice number, too.
Best
--
David Nelson
340 Westhampton Rd
Northampton, MA 01060
413-586-3627
413-585-0815 (fax)
Sri_G
: when I was using jathi, I meant the sollukattu and the korvai intervals,
: say in a Pada varnam for example, I always assumed that the knokul or
My mistake entirely. You meant "jathi"; I had "jAthi" in mind.
Probably one of the net-gurus can do this subject better justice.
A good primer on tAlA in Carnatic Music is the percussion primer by
our very own Srini Pichumani. Check out
http://WWW.mel.dms.CSIRO.AU/~mohan/world/music/Percussion-Primer
If you don't have web access, I can email you a copy.