Which ragas in following film songs ???
K.K. Ramamoorthy
couldnt see much connection between most of them though i've heard them a
1000 times.... revelation that Jab deep Jale aana is raag Yaman !!
And also " woh shaam kuch ajeeb thi "... Khamoshi .
Thats some learning..
Sorry about this,experts, but I'm stilltrying to learn the ropes...
Maybe it would help to know the ragas of the following film songs
which are semi-classical ....
Can a connoiseur of filmi AND classical stuff provide the answer ???
1. Teri Bindiya re - Abhimaan
2. Tere mere milan ki yeh raina ....- Abhimaan
3. Raina beet jaaye .... Amar prem
4. Tu Jo mere sur mein :
5. Kahan se aaye badra...... Yesudas
6. O hansini... Zehreela Insaan
7. Nadiya kinare, phir aaye...Abhimaan
8. Naa jiya laagena .... Anand
9. Chehra hai ya chaand khila hai - Saagar
10. Saagar kinaare.... - Saagar
11. Kaa karoon sajni aayen na baalam ...
12. Kahin door jab din dhal jayeen ... Anand
This would be a great starting point...Thanks in advance...
More examples from anyone welcome ... what better way to learn the
ragas than movie songs...!!!!! Maybe we could start a whole new thread ??
Cheers
KK
Rajan P. Parrikar
R13...@paccvm.corp.mot.com (K.K. Ramamoorthy) writes:
>Can a connoiseur of filmi AND classical stuff provide the answer ???
Is this AND boolean?
Slapping raga names to film songs can be tricky in most cases
where you see a strain of a raga(s) here and there but not
its whole picture. Therefore I ask you to take in this info with
that in mind.
>1. Teri Bindiya re - Abhimaan
>2. Tere mere milan ki yeh raina ....- Abhimaan
Both are roughly in Raga (Mishra) Gaaraa.
>3. Raina beet jaaye .... Amar prem
Starts off in Raga Todi and then Raga Khamaj is brought
in most beautifully in the antaraa only to meld back
into Todi. An inspired composition by RD Burman. You
also know why Lata is Lata when you listen to this one.
>4. Tu Jo mere sur mein :
Raga Mishra Jhinjhoti.
>5. Kahan se aaye badra...... Yesudas
Raga Megh.
>6. O hansini... Zehreela Insaan
None.
>7. Nadiya kinare, phir aaye...Abhimaan
>8. Naa jiya laagena .... Anand
>9. Chehra hai ya chaand khila hai - Saagar
>10. Saagar kinaare.... - Saagar
The above four adhere to no particular Raga.
>11. Kaa karoon sajni aayen na baalam ...
Mishra Bhairavi.
>12. Kahin door jab din dhal jayeen ... Anand
None.
>This would be a great starting point...Thanks in advance...
>More examples from anyone welcome ... what better way to learn the
>ragas than movie songs...!!!!! Maybe we could start a whole new thread ??
History would be repeating itself then. These are old threads dating
back to the jurassic days of rmic/rmim.
May I direct you to the rmim faq which contains a list of film
songs and their ragas. Please contact Dr. Prince Kohli (pko...@cc.gatech.edu)
or wait until he impregnates this group once again with his mini-version
(of the faq) on the first of every month.
Regards,
r
Rajan P. Parrikar
Rajan P. Parrikar <parr...@spot.Colorado.EDU> wrote:
>R13...@paccvm.corp.mot.com (K.K. Ramamoorthy) writes:
>>11. Kaa karoon sajni aayen na baalam ...
>
>Mishra Bhairavi.
On second thought this has very little Bhairavi in it.
Mishra Piloo would be more accurate although the composition
wanders far beyond Piloo.
r
Harish Suvarna
on his name like songs of Ravi etc. I searched for it in HMV house in bangalore
for 6 years. Does any one know if any cassests/CDS of Ravi available?
Also what is his full name and to which state he belongs, his brief history.
--
==================================================================
Harish Suvarna Work Phone: 415 933 4333
MIPS, Silicon Graphics Inc Home Phone: 408 383 0645
2011 N Shoreline Blvd Email: su...@mti.sgi.com
MS 10U-181, Mountain View
CA 94039-7311
==================================================================
Harish Suvarna
aired at 7.30 am to 7.45 am evry day. It was called 'Sangit Sargam'.
In that program the compere used to pick 1 raaga and the famous hindi
films using that. One expert in music used to describe the raaga and
songs based on that in a very short and sweet time. I recollect the
following songs
Jalte hai Jiske liye - Sindhu Bhairavi
Darshan do Ghanshyam naadh more akhiya pyaase re - Hamir Kalyan
Nayan se nayan naahi milaa dekhat surata aavat laaj - Bageshwari
Jaage Dard ishk jaag dil ko beqaraar kar - Baageshwari
I would really love to see the collection where song and raaga are listed.
Dr Kohli Saab, Some one mentioned you have that list. Can you please
post as soon as possible.
Harish Suvarna
Prince Kohli
Harish Suvarna <sundu> writes:
|>
|> I would really love to see the collection where song and raaga are listed.
|> Dr Kohli Saab, Some one mentioned you have that list. Can you please
|> post as soon as possible.
That "someone" was Rajan Parrikar. As he said, the list is part of the
RMIM AutoMailer (RAM), more info about which you can get from the RMIM FAQ.
Excerpt from the AutoMailer FAQ:
-------
10) To obtain a list of (Hindi, Tamil or St. Thyagaraja) songs based on
a raag, send mail
To: pko...@prism.gatech.edu
with,
Subject: raag:: <name of the raag>
For example, a mail with Subject: raag:: malhar will return with the
songs in our database that we believe are in raag malhar. Currently,
both Tamil and Hindi songs might be returned.
........................................................................
11) To obtain the name of the raag some song is based on, send a mail
To: pko...@prism.gatech.edu
with,
Subject: song_raag:: <any number of words from the start of the song>
For example, a mail with Subject: "song_raag:: ja re badara" will
return with "yaman."
-------
Also, to obtain the whole RAM FAQ, send a mail to the same address with
the subject: rmim automailer.
-Prince
Sanjeev Ramabhadran
>Namashkar.
>>4. Tu Jo mere sur mein :
>
>Raga Mishra Jhinjhoti.
I would agree if the "Sa" were placed on "Mein". However, the sargam
before the second verse convinces me otherwise (that is, "Dha Ni Ga, Re
Ga Re Sa Re Ga Ma etc. etc.")
>
>>11. Kaa karoon sajni aayen na baalam ...
>
>Mishra Bhairavi.
>
This is either a very Mishra Bhairavi or Sindh Bhairavi (as the mukhda
doesn't follow the Bhairavi scale much it seems). I know everyone calls
this Bhairavi, but where is the "SA"? Is it on "Kaa" or "ma" of
"Baalama"?>
>
Sanjeev Ramabhadran
Rajan P. Parrikar
Sanjeev Ramabhadran <sanj...@phoenix.princeton.edu> wrote:
>In article <4j87ms$c...@peabody.colorado.edu> parr...@spot.Colorado.EDU (Rajan P. Parrikar) writes:
>>Namashkar.
>>>4. Tu Jo mere sur mein :
>>
>>Raga Mishra Jhinjhoti.
>
>I would agree if the "Sa" were placed on "Mein".
I did place the Sa on "mein."
>However, the sargam
>before the second verse convinces me otherwise (that is, "Dha Ni Ga, Re
>Ga Re Sa Re Ga Ma etc. etc.")
Don't remember the song now and it has been a long time. Where is
the Sa referenced to the above sargam?
>>>11. Kaa karoon sajni aayen na baalam ...
>>
>>Mishra Bhairavi.
>>
>This is either a very Mishra Bhairavi or Sindh Bhairavi (as the mukhda
>doesn't follow the Bhairavi scale much it seems). I know everyone calls
>this Bhairavi, but where is the "SA"? Is it on "Kaa" or "ma" of
>"Baalama"?>
I have corrected myself in a subsequent posting.
In my perspective the Sa is on "kA." As you perhaps know,
Rajesh Roshan has tinkered with Bade Ghulam Ali Khan's classic
thumri to come up with this one.
r
rebala gopinath
>One of the great MDs we had was Ravi. But I never could see any casset
>on his name like songs of Ravi etc. I searched for it in HMV house in bangalore
>for 6 years. Does any one know if any cassests/CDS of Ravi available?
>Also what is his full name and to which state he belongs, his brief history.
>
>
Ravi along with KA and Bappi Lahiri happens to be one of the most
maligned MD's in RMIM. To be honest I'm not myself enthu about
Ravi. He certainly has great films like EK SAAL, DILLI KA THUG,
GHAR SANSAAR, BOMBAY KAA CHOR etc. Chaudhvin ka chand is a good
film readily available. He was Hemant Kumar's assistant and I
have seen him referred to as Ravi Shankar in the credits of
Nagin.
Cheers,
Kalyan
kal...@sybase.com
Faez Nasrudin Kaiser
but can give you the names of some excellent film scores by Ravi.
Kaajal
Nikaah
Gharana
Garhasti
Chaudhvin ka Chand
Ek Saal
Gumrah
Hamraaz
Khaandan
I hope this helps.
Regards,
Faez
Harish Suvarna (sundu) wrote:
: One of the great MDs we had was Ravi. But I never could see any casset
: on his name like songs of Ravi etc. I searched for it in HMV house in bangalore
: for 6 years. Does any one know if any cassests/CDS of Ravi available?
: Also what is his full name and to which state he belongs, his brief history.
: --
: ==================================================================
: Harish Suvarna Work Phone: 415 933 4333
: MIPS, Silicon Graphics Inc Home Phone: 408 383 0645
: 2011 N Shoreline Blvd Email: su...@mti.sgi.com
: MS 10U-181, Mountain View
: CA 94039-7311
: ==================================================================
--
Faez Kaiser nasr...@glue.umd.edu
Electrical Engineering http://www.glue.umd.edu/~nasrudin
University of Maryland at College Park
Pankaj Joshi
>One of the great MDs we had was Ravi. But I never could see any casset
>on his name like songs of Ravi etc. I searched for it in HMV house in bangalore
>for 6 years. Does any one know if any cassests/CDS of Ravi available?
>Also what is his full name and to which state he belongs, his brief history.
>
Sure is he a great MD. His films include Kabulivalla and Meera. His full
name is Ravi Shankar and currently he belongs to the state of California.
My apologies if this is not the Ravi that you are looking for.
Pankaj
Sanjeev Ramabhadran
>>>>4. Tu Jo mere sur mein :
>>>
>
>>before the second verse convinces me otherwise (that is, "Dha Ni Ga, Re
>>Ga Re Sa Re Ga Ma etc. etc.")
>
>Don't remember the song now and it has been a long time. Where is
>the Sa referenced to the above sargam?
>
according to this sargam, the notation for the mukhda would roughly be
tu jo me re su ra mein
m g n S G G m
.
So all in all this song takes both gandhaars, komal nishad, shuddh
madhyam, and shuddh dhaivat (although komal dhaivat makes a cameo
appearance in the sargam).
I'm not sure what to place this in terms of a raga. What's your
diagnosis?
Sanjeev
>
>
>
asch...@alpha.ntu.ac.sg
> I have not come across any Golden Collection or collected songs of Ravi,
> but can give you the names of some excellent film scores by Ravi.
>
>
> Kaajal
> Nikaah
> Gharana
> Garhasti
> Chaudhvin ka Chand
> Ek Saal
> Gumrah
> Hamraaz
> Khaandan
>
A very versatile MD. His other hits are:
DILLI KA THAG
BOMBAY KA CHOR
VACHAN (his ist in 1955)
SINDBAD ALIBABA ALLADIN
WAQT
NAZRANA
DO KALIYAN
TOWER HOUSE
ANKHEIN
AAJ AUR KAL
YEH RAASTE HAIN PYAR KE
NARTAKEE
GAHERA DAAG
APNA BANAKE DEKHO
JAWANI KI HAWA
MODERN GIRL
USTADONE KE USTAD
The list goes on
asch...@alpha.ntu.ac.sg
> In article <4j9h0u$l...@chronicle.mti.sgi.com>, Harish Suvarna <sundu> wrote:
>>One of the great MDs we had was Ravi. But I never could see any casset
>>on his name like songs of Ravi etc. I searched for it in HMV house in bangalore
>>for 6 years. Does any one know if any cassests/CDS of Ravi available?
>>Also what is his full name and to which state he belongs, his brief history.
>>
>>
>
> maligned MD's in RMIM. To be honest I'm not myself enthu about
> Ravi. He certainly has great films like EK SAAL, DILLI KA THUG,
> GHAR SANSAAR, BOMBAY KAA CHOR etc. Chaudhvin ka chand is a good
> film readily available. He was Hemant Kumar's assistant and I
> have seen him referred to as Ravi Shankar in the credits of
> Nagin.
Not RAVI SHANKER but Ravi Sharma. In early movies he came as Ravi Sharma and
later on dropped sSharma for obvious reasons
>
K.K. Ramamoorthy
Xref: schbbs rec.music.indian.classical:16381 rec.music.indian.misc:36617
Path: schbbs!mothost!lego.wes.mot.com!news-wa16!uw-coco!uw-beaver!nntp.cs.ubc.ca
From: parr...@spot.Colorado.EDU (Rajan P. Parrikar)
Newsgroups: rec.music.indian.classical,rec.music.indian.misc
Subject: Re: Which ragas in following film songs ???
Date: 26 Mar 1996 07:51:56 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Lines: 70
Message-ID: <4j87ms$c...@peabody.colorado.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: spot.colorado.edu
Namashkar.
R13...@paccvm.corp.mot.com (K.K. Ramamoorthy) writes:
>Can a connoiseur of filmi AND classical stuff provide the answer ???
Is this AND boolean?
Slapping raga names to film songs can be tricky in most cases
where you see a strain of a raga(s) here and there but not
its whole picture. Therefore I ask you to take in this info with
that in mind.
>1. Teri Bindiya re - Abhimaan
>2. Tere mere milan ki yeh raina ....- Abhimaan
Both are roughly in Raga (Mishra) Gaaraa.
>3. Raina beet jaaye .... Amar prem
Starts off in Raga Todi and then Raga Khamaj is brought
in most beautifully in the antaraa only to meld back
into Todi. An inspired composition by RD Burman. You
also know why Lata is Lata when you listen to this one.
>4. Tu Jo mere sur mein :
Raga Mishra Jhinjhoti.
>5. Kahan se aaye badra...... Yesudas
Raga Megh.
>6. O hansini... Zehreela Insaan
None.
>7. Nadiya kinare, phir aaye...Abhimaan
>8. Naa jiya laagena .... Anand
>9. Chehra hai ya chaand khila hai - Saagar
>10. Saagar kinaare.... - Saagar
The above four adhere to no particular Raga.
>11. Kaa karoon sajni aayen na baalam ...
Mishra Bhairavi.
>12. Kahin door jab din dhal jayeen ... Anand
None.
>This would be a great starting point...Thanks in advance...
>More examples from anyone welcome ... what better way to learn the
>ragas than movie songs...!!!!! Maybe we could start a whole new thread ??
History would be repeating itself then. These are old threads dating
back to the jurassic days of rmic/rmim.
May I direct you to the rmim faq which contains a list of film
songs and their ragas. Please contact Dr. Prince Kohli (pko...@cc.gatech.edu)
or wait until he impregnates this group once again with his mini-version
(of the faq) on the first of every month.
Regards,
r
----------------------------------------------------------
Thanks Rajan
As a newcomer to rmic /rmim, news of the well organised
faq and web sites is welcome.
And thanks for trying to unravel the threads of the filmi numbers
I put up..
Cheers
KK
Arun Verma
What were the 'obvious' reasons to drop the last name. Please shed
some light.
Thanks
Arun
>>
Vandana Sharma
Rajan mentioned 'Thumri' in his previous post. I'd like to
know some more about it. What is characteristic about Thumris?
Could you name a few Thumri singers?
Thanks,
-Vandana
Harish Suvarna
>In article <4j9h0u$l...@chronicle.mti.sgi.com>, Harish Suvarna <sundu> wrote:
>>One of the great MDs we had was Ravi. But I never could see any casset
>>on his name like songs of Ravi etc. I searched for it in HMV house in bangalore
>>for 6 years. Does any one know if any cassests/CDS of Ravi available?
>>Also what is his full name and to which state he belongs, his brief history.
>>
>
>name is Ravi Shankar and currently he belongs to the state of California.
>
>My apologies if this is not the Ravi that you are looking for.
>
>Pankaj
>
Pankaj, I am confused over your last sentence about CA. I guess you are not
serious in the last part of your information.
Harish Suvarna
Which was the film having the following song
'gairom pe karam apnom pe sitam
hai jaane wafa tu julumu na kar
rahane do abhi thoda sa dharam' ?
It was on Maala Sinha singing for Dharmendra when Dharmendra was
with some other lady. I vaguely remember that MD was Ravi and producer was
Ramanand Sagar. Looks like most of Ravi's films were with BR Chopra.
Harish Suvarna
I now use the automailer for songs, raags etc etc. It is indeed a great service
to music lovers like me. Please accept my thanks and pass the same to others
involved
in this for such a good service.
--
Neeraj Deshmukh - The Falcon
writes:
> Which was the film having the following song
>
> 'gairom pe karam apnom pe sitam
> hai jaane wafa tu julumu na kar
> rahane do abhi thoda sa dharam' ?
> It was on Maala Sinha singing for Dharmendra when Dharmendra was
> with some other lady. I vaguely remember that MD was Ravi and
> producer was Ramanand Sagar.
This is from 'Aankhen'. But AFAIR the MD was Madan Mohan. I
could be wrong, of course --- don't remember very far... ;-) The movie
is an excellent thriller, though... Lot of patriotic stuff, spies and
spy gadgets --- a novelty in those days...
> Looks like most of Ravi's films were with BR Chopra.
Certainly in the late 70s onwards this is absolutely true. But
by then Ravi had lost most of his magic (well, so had B R Chopra) with
pedestrian scores for pedestrian films like 'Dahleez' and 'Awaam'... I
am not very fond of the much-acclaimed 'Nikaah', either...
Ciao,
ND
\____Neeraj Deshmukh__________...@isip.msstate.edu____/
Office: ISIP, MSU, 434 Simrall, Hardy Road, MS State MS 39762
Ph: (601) 325-8335 Fax: (601) 325-3149
Home: 100 Logan Drive #D, Starkville MS 39759 Ph: (601) 323-2689
\_http://www.isip.msstate.edu/____Disc Space - The Final Frontier..._/
Arun Verma
Neeraj Deshmukh - The Falcon <desh...@isip.msstate.edu> wrote:
>In article <4jf0vp$n...@chronicle.mti.sgi.com> Harish Suvarna <sundu>
>writes:
>
>> Which was the film having the following song
>>
>> 'gairom pe karam apnom pe sitam
>> hai jaane wafa tu julumu na kar
>> rahane do abhi thoda sa dharam' ?
>
>> It was on Maala Sinha singing for Dharmendra when Dharmendra was
>> with some other lady. I vaguely remember that MD was Ravi and
>> producer was Ramanand Sagar.
>
> This is from 'Aankhen'. But AFAIR the MD was Madan Mohan. I
>could be wrong, of course --- don't remember very far... ;-) The movie
>is an excellent thriller, though... Lot of patriotic stuff, spies and
>spy gadgets --- a novelty in those days...
>
>> Looks like most of Ravi's films were with BR Chopra.
>
> Certainly in the late 70s onwards this is absolutely true. But
>by then Ravi had lost most of his magic (well, so had B R Chopra) with
>pedestrian scores for pedestrian films like 'Dahleez' and 'Awaam'... I
>am not very fond of the much-acclaimed 'Nikaah', either...
>
Aankhen was indeed scored by Ravi. And as far as I know, Ravi has
been giving music for BR Chopra films since early-mid sixties.
Remember Gumrah, Waqt, Humraaz (and Aankhen ofcourse) etc..they're
all BR chopra films.
Arun
Debanik
Thumri is a "lighter" variety of Hindustani Classical Music. I do not know
how to describe it in words. Probably, the only way to understand it is by
listening. If you want put in a scale of increasing "lightness" it will go
like this
Dhrupad < Kheyal < Thumri
Some suggestive listenings (in vocal)are
Bade Gulam Ali Khan
Rasoolan Bai
Shobha Gurtu
Girija Devi
There are some excellent Thumri in Shenai by Bismillah Khan.
Faez Nasrudin Kaiser
: Ravi along with KA and Bappi Lahiri happens to be one of the most
: maligned MD's in RMIM. To be honest I'm not myself enthu about
: Ravi.
To call Ravi maligned is an overstatement, compared to the SJ, Naushad,
RDB and Bappi bashing that erupts from time to time. In fact, Ravi is very
rarely mentioned on RMIM and the only criticism that I can recall regards
his consistency. In this regard, Ravi's career has some notable highs and
also a fair assortment of poor films. Despite contributing melliflous
pieces of music for films such as Chaudhvin Ka Chand, Gumrah and Gharana,
he does not have enough great films to be placed with Naushad, Madan
Mohan, Roshan, SDB and notable others in the highest tier of MDs. When
Ravi was good, he was very good but IMO he did not maintain an exceptional
standard over a sufficient number of films to earn the renown of the
MDs mentioned above. Nevertheless, I for one enjoy listening to
selections from his films and appreciate his contribution to film music.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Reposted below is a piece from an article on Ravi and Sahir by Sami
Mohammed that was posted quite a while back.
Sahir's "other Kabhi Kabhi" .... and Ravi's GHazals
Anyway, getting back to Ravi (as often mentioned on RMIM), he does not figure
prominently in the "Who's who" of MD's. Even for GHazals, Madan Mohan and
Khaiyyam are the main contenders for the top spot. Although I myself wouldn't
rank Ravi ahead of these maestros, I feel that he has composed quite a few
meldious tunes for GHazals. He had the advantage of working a lot with Sahir,
whose lyrics usually made the job of the MD much easier. However, even when
the lyrics weren't exceptional, Ravi has come up with some simple yet
excellent tunes such as "Door rehkar na karo baat KHarib aa jaao...." (from
Amaanat) and "Ye Waadiyaan, ye fizaaen bula rahi hain tumhe..." (from Aaj aur
Kal). Both these tunes seem very simple, but are highly pleasing for the ear.
And then, Rafi Sahab's rendition adds those extra moles of listening pleasure
to the solution of music and lyrics. These two tunes somehow seem similar to
me, and I wasn't surprised to discover that they were composed by the same
person.
Another set of GHazals, which seem similar to me are "Raha gardishon me
har dum, mere ishq ka sitaara..." (from Do Badan) and "Mili KHaak me
mohabbat, jala dil ka aashiaana, jo thhi aaj tak haqueequat, wohi ban gaee
fasaana..." (from Chaudvin ka Chaand). Other nice GHazals by Ravi include
"Bhari duniya me aakhir dil ko samjhaane...." (from Do Badan) and "Is
bhari duniya me, koi bhi humaara na hua...". I'm not sure whether the
latter is a Ravi compostion, but I often get confused between these two
GHazals. But, the confusion in this case stems from the words "bhari
duniya" in both the songs and not the tune.
Ravi's Waqt has the Asha marvel
"Chehre pe KHushi chha jaati hai, aankhon me suroor aa jaata hai
Jab tum mujhe apna kehte ho, apne pe GHuroor aa jaata hai...."
This GHazal again has wonderful lyrics by Sahir. Another great
Asha/Ravi/Sahir combo is from the movie Aaj aur Kal. Although it's not a
GHazal and the lyrics aren't exceptional, Ravi's simple tune and Asha's
wonderful rendition make this song a masterpiece:
"Zindagi ke rang kaee re, saathi re,
Zindagi ke rang kaee re...."
Kaajal had those two sharabi GHazals "Chhoolenedo naazuk honTon ko..."
and "Ye zulph agar khulke bikhar jaae to achha...." There were a couple of
mKaps solos as well, but I don't rem. whether they were GHazals or not.
Ravi's comeback movie, Nikaah, too had a beautiful GHazal sung by Salma
Agha "Dil ke armaan aansuon me beh gae...." Ravi may not be remembered as
one of the greatest MDs of our film industry, but he has composed many a
beautiful tune, including the Talat masterpiece (also sung by Lata) "Sab
kuchh luTaake hosh me aae to kya kiya...". This single composition is
enough for him to be etched forever in my memory.
Sami Mohammed (A Naushad fan)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Regards,
Faez
asch...@alpha.ntu.ac.sg
> In article <1996Mar2...@alpha.ntu.ac.sg>,
> <asch...@alpha.ntu.ac.sg> wrote:
>>In article <4j9tti$r...@umbc10.umbc.edu>, gre...@umbc.edu (rebala gopinath) writes:
>>later on dropped sSharma for obvious reasons
>
> What were the 'obvious' reasons to drop the last name. Please shed
> some light.
>
> Thanks
> Arun
In film industry you must have noticed that the names are based on numerology
(for superstitious reasons) or on appeal.
For example: Dilip Kumar is Yusuf Khan
Sanjeev Kumar is Harbhai Chandiwala.
Even Anu Malik changed his spelling recently from ANNU to Anu as
numerologically he found one "n" luckier than 2 (has proven the point- it sure
is working for him).
Similarly Ravi was Ravi Sharma and after few films felt that RAVI alone is more
impacting and thus dropped Sharma.
OTher Real Names:
Filmi Real
Raj Kapoor Ranvir Raj Kapoor
Devanand Devdutt --- Anand
Shammi Kapoor Shammi Raj Kapoor
Meena Kumari Mehzabin
Purnima (singer) Shushma Shreshtha
Manoj Kumar Hari Shivdas Goswami
I hope I have illustrated my point
>
>
>
Pradeep Dubey
|> In article <4j9h0u$l...@chronicle.mti.sgi.com>, Harish Suvarna <sundu> wrote:
|> >on his name like songs of Ravi etc. I searched for it in HMV house in bangalore
|> >for 6 years. Does any one know if any cassests/CDS of Ravi available?
|> >Also what is his full name and to which state he belongs, his brief history.
|> >
|>
|> Sure is he a great MD. His films include Kabulivalla and Meera. His full
|> name is Ravi Shankar and currently he belongs to the state of California.
|>
No "Ravi S", 'sharma' or 'shankar' could have composed "kabuliwala".
That's a creation of one-and-only genius: Sir Salil !
Pradeep
Salil-C HQ
Rajan P. Parrikar
>In the sargam, the Sa is given as the "re" in tu jo meRE sur mein, thus
>according to this sargam, the notation for the mukhda would roughly be
>tu jo me re su ra mein
>m g n S G G m
> .
>So all in all this song takes both gandhaars, komal nishad, shuddh
>madhyam, and shuddh dhaivat (although komal dhaivat makes a cameo
>appearance in the sargam).
>I'm not sure what to place this in terms of a raga. What's your
>diagnosis?
It is possible that the sargam is done as a murchhana. Try and
see to what Sa the tabla is tuned and that might help settle
the matter.
r
Balu Nadig
|> Namashkar.
|> <deleted>
|> >3. Raina beet jaaye .... Amar prem
|>
|> Starts off in Raga Todi and then Raga Khamaj is brought
|> in most beautifully in the antaraa only to meld back
|> into Todi. An inspired composition by RD Burman. You
|> also know why Lata is Lata when you listen to this one.
Namaskar Rajanji,
I have often said that and have been branded a Lata
'fa (not lu) natic'. But I knew I had company....
Regards.
Balu Nadig
|>
|> <deleted>
|> Regards,
|>
|>
|>
|> r
Ramesh Hariharan
right there was some discussion about 2-3 years back
initiated by Abhay. There is not much I know as far as
where he comes from. My guess is he's from Kerala (ackers pl.
comment). Most of his hits are with Rafi, some with Mukesh
and KK. It's clear however that Ravi and Salil Chaudary left
Bombay right around the time RDB started making it big
(early-mid 70's, Nikaah must be an exception for Ravi).
Perhaps they couldn't stand the degenaration in tastes, for
they certainly did not lack talent.
Salil and Ravi took their talents to Malayalam. Ravi has
composed for several movies with extensive work with Yesudas.
It's also interesting that Ravi never made a single song
with Yesudas in Hindi ! I find it puzzling and at times
disconcerting, when I hear people say shit like "AR Rehman
is the only good composer today". It's amazing how easily the
Hindi and Tamil media which make more commerical movies
camouflage reality. Jeez.. The great Salil was active in
Malayalam till he unfortunately passed away last year and
Ravi is still very active. Infact he bagged the National
award for Sukrutham. Sargam and Parinayam has several WONDERFUL
songs. Listed below are a few Malayalam of his Malayalam
movies I could think of. I have also added (searched Preetham's
stats file) to Faez's list of hindi movies by Ravi .
Sargam
Sukrutham
Parinayam
panchaagni
nakha-kshathannGaL
oru vatakkan veera-gaaTha
vaiSaali
nakha-kshathannGaL
VidyArambham(*)
pAthEyam(*)
Vaishali
Kamaladhalam
nasr...@Glue.umd.edu (Faez Nasrudin Kaiser) wrote:
>Kaajal
>Nikaah
>Gharana
>Garhasti
>Chaudhvin ka Chand
>Ek Saal
>Gumrah
>Hamraaz
>Khaandan
Add the following:
Neelkamal
Do Badan
Waqt
Amaanat
Aankhen
Dilli ka thug
Pyaar Kiya to Darna Kya
Ustaadon ke Ustaad
Rakhee
Pyaar ka saagar
China Town
Modern Girl
Aaj aur kal
> Faez
>: Harish Suvarna
Ramesh Hariharan
Pankaj Joshi
>paj...@enuxsa.eas.asu.edu (Pankaj Joshi) wrote:
>>In article <4j9h0u$l...@chronicle.mti.sgi.com>, Harish Suvarna <sundu> wrote:
>>
>>Sure is he a great MD. His films include Kabulivalla and Meera. His full
>>name is Ravi Shankar and currently he belongs to the state of California.
>>
>>
>>Pankaj
>>
>
>serious in the last part of your information.
>
Harish, I am replying from the newsgroup of rmic(for classical) where you
cross posted your first querry. When you talk about Ravi, Amir Khan or
Jaidev on that newsgroup they have completely different connotations.
No hard feelings please.
Pankaj
Neeraj Deshmukh - The Falcon
This is what Preetham wrote to me as a response...
-----------------x ------------------- x------------------------------
>> It was on Maala Sinha singing for Dharmendra when Dharmendra was
>> with some other lady. I vaguely remember that MD was Ravi and
>> producer was Ramanand Sagar.
> This is from 'Aankhen'. But AFAIR the MD was Madan Mohan. I
>could be wrong, of course --- don't remember very far... ;-) The movie
>is an excellent thriller, though... Lot of patriotic stuff, spies and
>spy gadgets --- a novelty in those days...
Well, you are right and you are not. There were 2 films of the same
name, the older one being scored by Madan Mohan (his first film I
think) and the second one scored by Ravi (which is the one starring
Dharmendra, Mala Sinha and all about spy stuff). Both of them were
just okay musically speaking. As far as I am concerned, the presence
of 1 good song in a film is not enough to make it a classic. The 2
famous songs in "AaNkhen" (scored by Ravi) were "gairoN pe karam apnoN
pe sitam" and "milti hai zindagi me muhabbat kabhi kabhi". Decent
songs but not worth raving about IMO. The first of the two owes a lot
to the lyrics by Sahir, simple, lyrical and effective. The tune
itself is repetitive and the song is long (if I remember right, it had
3 or 4 verses atleast).
The "AaNkheN" scored by Madan Mohan was in the period when he had
still not learnt to tap into the magic of Lata's voice. Madan Mohan
also went through a dramatic change in composition style within a few
years. Compositions like "chaaNd madham hai, aasmaaN chhup hai" from
"Railway Platform" or "dil unko uThaake de diya" in "Baap Bete" are
pre-cursors of that style. I find his earlier compositions in films
like "Dhun", "Jaagir", "Aashiana" to be in the general genre of that
time (very Naushad/Ghulam Mohammadesque). It was not the unique sound
that was later associated with Madan Mohan a la "Dekh Kabeera Roya",
"AnpaDh", "Adaalat", etc. The style changed later again in the 70s
with films like "Dil Ki RaaheN", "Mausam", "Heer Ranjha" (this one I
personally don't like at all), and "Sahib Bahadur".
So anyways a long clarification to a short original post. Oh well,
what is new :-) :-) :-)
Harish Suvarna
>In article <4jf0kp$n...@chronicle.mti.sgi.com>, Harish Suvarna <sundu> wrote:
>>paj...@enuxsa.eas.asu.edu (Pankaj Joshi) wrote:
>Harish, I am replying from the newsgroup of rmic(for classical) where you
>cross posted your first querry. When you talk about Ravi, Amir Khan or
>Jaidev on that newsgroup they have completely different connotations.
>
>No hard feelings please.
$$$ Joshi bhai, no hard feelings at all. Please keep on passing the info you
know. Thanks.
Nitin Sharma
: Rajan mentioned 'Thumri' in his previous post. I'd like to
: know some more about it. What is characteristic about Thumris?
: Could you name a few Thumri singers?
Its difficult to describe in a few words this genre of hindustani
classical music. There is an excellent book on the subject by Peter Manuel:
Thumri: in historical and stylistic perspectives
(publ: Motilal Banarasidas, Delhi)
Peter Manuel learnt playing sitar from Ustad vilayat khan.
Among the famous thumri singers are :
ustad bade ghulam ali khan, ustad faiyyaz khan (both primarily khayal
singers), Gauhar jan, malka jan, rasoolan bai, sidheshvari devi, begum
akhtar in the older generation, and girija devi, savita devi, shobha
gurtu, laksmi shankparveen sultana(though she too is mainly khayal
singer).
i'm sure i would have missed some important names.
-nitin
Chetan Vinchhi
ni...@cs.washington.edu (Nitin Sharma) wrote:
>
> Among the famous thumri singers are :
> ustad bade ghulam ali khan, ustad faiyyaz khan (both primarily khayal
>singers), Gauhar jan, malka jan, rasoolan bai, sidheshvari devi, begum
>akhtar in the older generation, and girija devi, savita devi, shobha
>gurtu, laksmi shankparveen sultana(though she too is mainly khayal
>singer).
Khansahib Abdul Karim Khan used to sing thumris with great feeling.
"kaise aaoo.n jamuna ke teer....", the famous Bhairavi thumri was
popularized by him. Also, he sang the Sarparda thumri "gopala mori
karuna kyoon na aave..." with rare emotion. It is beautiful !
Pt.Firoz Dastur sings this piece as a homage to his gurus.
Bade Ghulam Ali Khan's brother Barkat Ali Khan was an outstanding
thumri singer. The Patiala gharana album in the Chairman's Choice
series by HMV has some nice pieces by him. The liner notes almost
call him a better thumri singer than BGAK.
There was another famous thumri singer - Pt.Amarnath Mishra. I
wonder what people who have heard him think of him ?!
regards,
Chetan.
srak...@ecs.umass.edu
>
>Is this AND boolean?
>
>Slapping raga names to film songs can be tricky in most cases
>where you see a strain of a raga(s) here and there but not
>its whole picture. Therefore I ask you to take in this info with
>that in mind.
>
>>1. Teri Bindiya re - Abhimaan
>>2. Tere mere milan ki yeh raina ....- Abhimaan
>
>Both are roughly in Raga (Mishra) Gaaraa.
I would say tere mere is in Khamaj
>
>>3. Raina beet jaaye .... Amar prem
>
>Starts off in Raga Todi and then Raga Khamaj is brought
>in most beautifully in the antaraa only to meld back
>into Todi. An inspired composition by RD Burman. You
>also know why Lata is Lata when you listen to this one.
>
>>4. Tu Jo mere sur mein :
>
>Raga Mishra Jhinjhoti.
>
>>5. Kahan se aaye badra...... Yesudas
>
>Raga Megh.
>
>>6. O hansini... Zehreela Insaan
>
>None.
>
>>7. Nadiya kinare, phir aaye...Abhimaan
close to pilu
>>8. Naa jiya laagena .... Anand
>>9. Chehra hai ya chaand khila hai - Saagar
>>10. Saagar kinaare.... - Saagar
hint of yaman manj
>
>The above four adhere to no particular Raga.
>
>>11. Kaa karoon sajni aayen na baalam ...
>
>Mishra Bhairavi.
>
>>12. Kahin door jab din dhal jayeen ... Anand
>
>None.
>
>Regards,
>r
>
bano azra
azra
Sanjeev Ramabhadran
I believe ( I don't have the song with me right now) that the tabla is
tuned to "your" Sa, as in "...sura MEIN..." . If this is the Sa, then I
guess Mishra Jhinjhoti sounds good.
Here's another difficulty though. As I'm sure you've noticed, I don't
think they always tune the tabla to the "Sa" in filmy orchestration. The
one example that comes to mind immediately is Mohd. Rafi's "Insaan Bano
Kar Lo Bhalaai Ka Koi Kaam" from Baiju Bawra. The song is fairly
unambiguously based on raga Gurjari Todi, with Rafi's "shadja" placed at
E/safed teen. The tabla, however, is tuned to safed EK/C which would be
its komal Dhaivat.
So where does that leave us? I'm not really sure, but it's a great song
anyway...
Sanjeev
>
Rajan P. Parrikar
Sanjeev Ramabhadran <sanj...@phoenix.princeton.edu> wrote:
>In article <parrikar....@spot.Colorado.EDU> parr...@spot.Colorado.EDU (Rajan P. Parrikar) writes:
>>It is possible that the sargam is done as a murchhana. Try and
>>see to what Sa the tabla is tuned and that might help settle
>>the matter.
>>
>>
>>r
>
>I believe ( I don't have the song with me right now) that the tabla is
>tuned to "your" Sa, as in "...sura MEIN..." . If this is the Sa, then I
>guess Mishra Jhinjhoti sounds good.
Okay.
>Here's another difficulty though. As I'm sure you've noticed, I don't
>think they always tune the tabla to the "Sa" in filmy orchestration. The
>one example that comes to mind immediately is Mohd. Rafi's "Insaan Bano
>Kar Lo Bhalaai Ka Koi Kaam" from Baiju Bawra. The song is fairly
>unambiguously based on raga Gurjari Todi, with Rafi's "shadja" placed at
>E/safed teen. The tabla, however, is tuned to safed EK/C which would be
>its komal Dhaivat.
I cannot comment with certainty on this specific case. However, as a general
comment it is not too hard to find mistuned instruments in film songs
(even under the most watchful composers). Two possibilities suggest
themselves here: One, the tabla was tuned to the pancham but somehow
crept up by a semitone (normally they slip down!). Two, they just
didn't have a kAli teen tabla and had to make do with the kAli ek
one available during the recording (far-fetched). Or perhaps Naushad-Sahab
deliberately tuned it to the important-in-Todi komal dhaivat.
What do you think?
Regards,
r
Rajan P. Parrikar
>>>2. Tere mere milan ki yeh raina ....- Abhimaan
>>
>>Both are roughly in Raga (Mishra) Gaaraa.
>
> I would say tere mere is in Khamaj
I wouldn't, because it wouldn't account for the very distinct use
of the komal gandhar which is quite easily accomodated in rAga gArA.
Furthermore, one of the components that go into the making of gArA
is khamAj. Therefore the former is a far better candidate.
r
Tablaguy
thumri singer.
Sambarta
Where is the komal gandhar ? (could you cite the phrase ?). Or maybe
you got the sa and ma mixed ?
: r
Rajan P. Parrikar
n' n' S S..S R S M g R S n' D' n' S G... etc etc
te re . me.re . mi.la.n ki . . . raina nayA
Having written that out, let me say that you were correct (and
consequently I was wrong) in putting this under rAga khamAj. I
now remember that in the past I have also classified this composition
under khamAj. Why did I think it was rAga gArA this time around? Well,
rAga gArA falls out of a murchhana (grAha bHedam) on khamAj (translate
the Sa of the former to the madhyam to get khamAj). When I was
humming the composition the Sa to which the above sargam is referenced
seemed very compelling (and you will notice it is) and whence I
concluded it was gArA. Now I went back and thought about it with
the khamAj base and it sounded perfectly natural that way too:-)
Furthermore, S.D. Burman's well-known proclivity towards rAgas khamAj/tilang
(his peerless interplay with the two nishads, really) strengthens the
surmise that it was conceived in rAga khamAj.
r
Dakshin
swaras in either arohan, avarohan or both. So the grammar of our music
enables the
construction of sampurna, owdhava, shadava ragas, even though I do think
there
is a mathematical basis to it. One author of music predicts that there are
38000
and odd ragas. In one of the Annamacharya kirtanas only the existence of
32000 ragas was mentioned, even though Annamacharya, it seems, actually
used a handful of these ragas. It seems ragas also get established by the
sangati or their rendition with famous songs. Also, ragas were classified
against the time of the day, mood of
the song (bhakti, krodha, etc.) and other facets.
What I want to know from the experts here is what is the significance of a
sampurna raga with identical swaras in arohan and avarohan? Also, if there
is a owdhava or shadhava sampurna raga where the arohan will not have some
of the swaras, but the
avarohan has all of the swaras, how do you know the vocalist or the
instrumentalist is
singing the raga swaras right? Of course, if a swara is missing in both
arohan and avarohan (i.e. owdhava-shadava, shadava-owdhava,
owdhava-owdhava, shadava-shadava ragas), we can detect it with some good
ears. Otherwise, how to
know if a swara occurs in arohan or avarohan?
If anyone has seen the movie Sankharabharanam by director Viswanath, the
lead character who is a maestro chides his child when she sings
"Samajavaragamana" for using anya-swaras. Does anyone remember exactly
what his point was? I thought it was a mere melodrama for the audience
sake. I could be wrong.
If you can please copy your reply to dak...@aol.com.
Thanks.
Dakshin Murthy Gandikota
H. Murty
Dakshin (dak...@aol.com) writes:
> lead character who is a maestro chides his child when she sings
> "Samajavaragamana" for using anya-swaras. Does anyone remember exactly
> what his point was? I thought it was a mere melodrama for the audience
> sake. I could be wrong.
>
I thought the incident involved the ragam Hindolam and that "ra" does not
appear and yet during the song she started daydreaming and went into "ra"
without thinking. So the lead character said "How didyou get rishabham in
Hindolam" The note "ra" is referred to as rishabham.
Maybe someone can write the whole Hindolam arohanam and avarohanam.
--
Dr. H. Murty
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute
MATSONJJ99
questions. First of all the importance of Sampoorna-Sampoorna ragas is
that they are the basis for the Melakartha ragas which number 72. When one
excempts a swara in the arohanan or the avarohanan one has created a Janya
of that melakartha, or a derived raga.
As to the number of ragas, one has to ask a few questions.
1) Does a raga exist if it has never been performed?
2) Are we neglecting the true form of ragas and condensing them to modes?
Looking at ragas as modes we can mathmatically figure out how many
possiblities of having Sampoorna-Sampoorna, ect.... probably reaching some
far out number near 50,000 at least. This would also neglect why we have a
theory of music. Music theory derives to explain the techniques of what is
existing so we can follow or break them to our desire. If a raga has never
been performed then for all pratical purposes it does not exist.
Given that Ragas are not strictly modal in that many have what seems
like a melody line in them. S G2 R2 G2 M1 P N3 S, for example,
there are an infinate number of swaras.
I would appreciate any corrections or comments. Remember take this for
what it is, I am not an expert.--Jason--
C S Ramarao
ad...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (H. Murty) writes:
> Maybe someone can write the whole Hindolam arohanam and avarohanam.
hindOLam has S G M D N S and S N D M G S
when ending the song S Janaki sang in S N D M G R S (of course in a
kAra) and the enraged sankarasastry asks his daughter for the arOhaNa
nad avarOhaNa for hindOLam. Upon hearing the correct swarams told by
her, he barks at her " how did you get suddha rishabam in the hindOLam
rAmArAo
