Hindustani/Carnatic Melodies Evoking Fear?
Sanjeev Ramabhadran
With Halloween approaching, was curious to know from RMICers of any
raags associated with or evoking the emotion of fear (this is both
from a "theoretical" standpoint, i.e. according to the books, as well
as personal experience, i.e. listening to this evokes a certain amount
of fear in me)
Note this is a serious question, not directed at "renditions of
musician XYZ that were so bad they were scary"...curious to know which
if any melodies fit this description for all of you.
Cheers,
Sanjeev
Imnot Apadmashri
<sanjeev.ramabhad...@gmail.com> queried about any raags associated
with or evoking the emotion of fear ...
Pt Kumar Gandharva lived on the path to a Devi temple where goats were
sacrificed. The bleating of a goat being taken to the altar inspired
him to create raag beehaD bhairav. The vilambit goes "bachaale mori
maataa" (save me, my mother). In the drut the goat resigns to his
fate and urges the drummer to play loudly to drown out his fear. A
recording is available on amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Rag-Beehad-Bhairav/dp/B000QP139Q.
The only catch - it is a morning raag! See if it works.
DG
Havanur
wrote:
> Pt Kumar Gandharva lived on the path to a Devi temple where goats were
> sacrificed. The bleating of a goat being taken to the altar inspired
> him to create raag beehaD bhairav. The vilambit goes "bachaale mori
> maataa" (save me, my mother). In the drut the goat resigns to his
> fate and urges the drummer to play loudly to drown out his fear. A
> recording is available on amazon:http://www.amazon.com/Rag-Beehad-Bhairav/dp/B000QP139Q.
> The only catch - it is a morning raag! See if it works.
>
> DG
Correction(s). The raga is Madh Surja, timing as indicated in title.
Both vilambit and drut, worded appropriately for the goat motif, can
be heard here.
BTW the new google service http://www.google.co.in/music has some
good stuff for ICMers
Havanur
Pinaki
> On Oct 28, 7:00 pm, Imnot Apadmashri <imnotapadmas...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Pt Kumar Gandharva lived on the path to a Devi temple where goats were
> > sacrificed. The bleating of a goat being taken to the altar inspired
> > him to create raag beehaD bhairav. The vilambit goes "bachaale mori
> > maataa" (save me, my mother). In the drut the goat resigns to his
> > fate and urges the drummer to play loudly to drown out his fear. A
> > recording is available on amazon:http://www.amazon.com/Rag-Beehad-Bhairav/dp/B000QP139Q.
> > The only catch - it is a morning raag! See if it works.
>
> > DG
>
> Correction(s). The raga is Madh Surja, timing as indicated in title.
> Both vilambit and drut, worded appropriately for the goat motif, can
> be heard here.
>
>
> BTW the new google servicehttp://www.google.co.in/music has some
> good stuff for ICMers
>
> Havanur
Thanks, Havanur and DG, for the info and the links.
I found it very disturbing to listen to, specially with the coming
Kali Puja.
Unfortunately, I could follow most of the lyrics (normally I cannot).
Anyone else find this likewise?
Musicwise - excellent. Well, what else does one expect from KG!
Pinaki.
Rajiv Chakravarti
> On Oct 28, 7:00 pm, Imnot Apadmashri <imnotapadmas...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Pt Kumar Gandharva lived on the path to a Devi temple where goats were
> > sacrificed. The bleating of a goat being taken to the altar inspired
> > him to create raag beehaD bhairav. The vilambit goes "bachaale mori
> > maataa" (save me, my mother). In the drut the goat resigns to his
> > fate and urges the drummer to play loudly to drown out his fear. A
> > recording is available on amazon:http://www.amazon.com/Rag-Beehad-Bhairav/dp/B000QP139Q.
> > The only catch - it is a morning raag! See if it works.
>
> > DG
>
> Correction(s). The raga is Madh Surja, timing as indicated in title.
> Both vilambit and drut, worded appropriately for the goat motif, can
> be heard here.
>
>
> BTW the new google servicehttp://www.google.co.in/music has some
> good stuff for ICMers
>
> Havanur
Firstly, thanks for the background information -- which is new to me.
I too, after hearing this found the bandish quite distressing. I am
sure this is going to remain with me in the future..
Appreciate the Google music reference as well.
Thanks,
RC
Sanjeev Ramabhadran
wrote:
Ditto on all counts - got a little more than I was bargaining for this
morning, but thanks. Have not heard this in full, but the description
has filled me with a distressed fascination. Will surely hear it.
Other responses welcome as well.
Sanjeev
Abhishek
Sanjeev thanks for bringing some music back to RMIC. Depressing
(Bhayanak!) to see all the SPAM that normally gets posted here.
Kumarji's rendition is a personal favorite. The Madh Surja appears on
an EMI CD 'Dhun Ugam Raga' with Bhavmat Bhairav (an exceedingly
intense raga in its right).
Some internet research revealed a bit more - mostly carnatic related.
'Punnagavarali' (the raga, apparently associated with snakes) is
supposed to be associated with the bhayanak rasa according to this
site:
http://www.karnatik.com/rasas.shtml
http://www.vijayadhwani.com/2010/09/punnagavarali-raaga.html
Punnagavarali is of course, the ragam for the haunting 'kanakashaila'
by MS. Nothing by MS can ever evoke a negative emotion for me...so be
the judge yourself.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q85HiAGg1Ro
Another forum mentions a spate of ragas under the bhayanak rasa.
http://rasikas.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2827&p=49129
(Is the carnatic Paraj similar to the Hindustani counterpart?
Punnagavarali shows up under the karuna rasa rubric here).
Most ragas surveyed had a preponderance of all or some of the
following - komal re, teevra ma, komal dha, komal ni. My personal take
is that the raga just provides the basic DNA for the evocation of
certain emotions. The composition and the performer are what bring
this to fruition. A good musician is one who can make
intelligent aesthetic choices to express the chosen emotional content
of the raga. All this, of course, conditioned on the state and nature
of the listener (the observer effect!). Kishori tai's Marwa (bolana
bin - I think it is in the sawf archive) evokes fear and sadness for
me, while Gangubai's Marwa (dir dir dir dir taanom) is powerful and
full of veer rasa.
With that wish you all a scary Halloween!
~
Abhishek
Abubakr
@a37g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>, sanjeev.r...@gmail.com says...
I've always found certain performances of ragas Marwa, Shree and even
Hindol, if you believe, eery and foreboding.
--
"This is no time to make new enemies."
-- Voltaire, when asked on his deathbed to forswear Satan.
Mohan Joshi
Carnatic, with its stronger links to mythological themes, will have
something, but Hindustani and fear? no way. Before I could open my
mouth, though, DG brings up bachale mori mata.
Deval's Marathi play "Sharada" had a song "moortimanta bheeti ubhi
majasamor" (fear incarnate appears before me), but it was set to
Bhimpalas of all the ragas!
Mohan
Sanjeev Ramabhadran
> In article <3a511e5e-8d28-4435-bbf6-0a26084ab297
Agree on all three of these, particularly the first two - thanks!
Sanjeev
Sanjeev Ramabhadran
> On Oct 29, 9:18 am, Sanjeev Ramabhadran
>
> Sanjeev thanks for bringing some music back to RMIC. Depressing
> (Bhayanak!) to see all the SPAM that normally gets posted here.
>
> Kumarji's rendition is a personal favorite. The Madh Surja appears on
> an EMI CD 'Dhun Ugam Raga' with Bhavmat Bhairav (an exceedingly
> intense raga in its right).
>
> Some internet research revealed a bit more - mostly carnatic related.
>
> 'Punnagavarali' (the raga, apparently associated with snakes) is
> supposed to be associated with the bhayanak rasa according to this
>
> Punnagavarali is of course, the ragam for the haunting 'kanakashaila'
> by MS. Nothing by MS can ever evoke a negative emotion for me...so be
>
> Another forum mentions a spate of ragas under the bhayanak rasa.http://rasikas.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2827&p=49129
> (Is the carnatic Paraj similar to the Hindustani counterpart?
> Punnagavarali shows up under the karuna rasa rubric here).
>
> Most ragas surveyed had a preponderance of all or some of the
> following - komal re, teevra ma, komal dha, komal ni. My personal take
> is that the raga just provides the basic DNA for the evocation of
> certain emotions. The composition and the performer are what bring
> this to fruition. A good musician is one who can make
> intelligent aesthetic choices to express the chosen emotional content
> of the raga. All this, of course, conditioned on the state and nature
> of the listener (the observer effect!). Kishori tai's Marwa (bolana
> bin - I think it is in the sawf archive) evokes fear and sadness for
> me, while Gangubai's Marwa (dir dir dir dir taanom) is powerful and
> full of veer rasa.
Agree about the distinction between Marwa-s (e.g. nothing can be scary
when Salamat Ali is throwing his usual taans in the Nazakat-Salamat
tarana in circulation). Are there any non-scary/sad vilambits in Marwa
from your perspective?
>
> With that wish you all a scary Halloween!
And you too! Thanks for the Punnagavarali pointer, had forgotten about
that one.
Cheers,
Sanjeev
Imnot Apadmashri
> Another forum mentions a spate of ragas under the bhayanak rasa.http://rasikas.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2827&p=49129
Their list includes Vachaspati. If it is the same Vachaspati in which
Pt. Jagdish Prasad sang Sancho Tero Naam & Chatur Sughar Balma, then I
must be brave. I have heard that LP many times without feeling the
least scared.
DG
Abhay
wrought!
Pooling your information has made it difficult for me to listen to one
of my favourite KG pieces. The pathos in the bandish always came
through, but - as others have said above - the gory details supplied
by you brought up distressing images when I listened to the raga
again. Much, much worse, when I thought of sheep while listening to
KG's prolonged evocations of "maa.N", it made me laugh out loud - and
the context made me feel guilty about laughing. :(
I never thought I would say this, but - in some cases - ignorance is
indeed bliss!
Warm regards,
Abhay
Imnot Apadmashri
> it made me laugh out loud
and asked
> DG, Havanur: I hope you guys are satisfied with what you have
> wrought!
At least Sanjeev should be satisfied with that end result. Laughing
out loud is after all what Halloween is supposed to be about.
However, Abhay, a little clarification is in order. The sacrificial
animal is a goat, not a sheep.
सिंहो नैव गजो नैव
व्याघ्रो नैव च नैव च
अजापुत्रं बलिं दद्यात्
देवो दुर्बलघातकः
Sheep, on the other hand, is the subject of Kabir's failed experiment
of ascending to heaven
मूंड मुंडाए हरि मिले
तो मैं जाऊं मुंडाय
बार बार के मूंडते
भेड न वैकुण्ठ जाय
A belated happy Halloween all
DG
Havanur
> DG, Havanur: I hope you guys are satisfied with what you have
> wrought!
What did I do?? I didn't sacrifice the goats, didn't drag them in
front of KG's house, had absolutely nothing to do with the creation or
recording the raga. All I did was point to the location where others
can find it and ... talk about shooting the messenger(s)!
Havanur
naniwadekar
"Imnot Apadmashri" wrote :
>
> ????? ??? ??? ??? ???????? ??? ? ??? ?
>
It is '????? ??? ??? ???', not ????? / ????? . The double emphasis on the
clause for vyaaghro/vyaaghram.h won't make sense if the lion is already
mentioned in the first line. And if the word is indeed 'ajaaputraM' instead
of ajaaputrH, the verb dadyaat.h probably requires the accusative form. A
reference book tells me that the word 'ashva' is masculine, and 'ajaaputra'
is most certainly masculine.
- dn
Imnot Apadmashri
> ????? ??? ??? ??? ???????? ??? ? ??? ?
I did no such thing, I assure you.
DG
naniwadekar
(Trying to post again, to get Devanagari characters right.)
"Imnot Apadmashri" wrote :
> सिंहो नैव गजो नैव व्याघ्रो नैव च नैव च
>
It is '(अश्वो / ) अश्वं नैव, गजं नैव', not 'सिंहो / सिंहं नैव' . The
double emphasis on the
clause for vyaaghro/vyaaghram.h won't make sense if the lion is
already
mentioned in the first line. And if the word is indeed 'ajaaputraM'
instead
of ajaaputrH, the verb 'dadyaat.h' requires the accusative form.
Imnot Apadmashri
You must be right about grammar. But isn't अश्वो / अश्वं sacrificed
in an अश्वमेध ?
DG
naniwadekar
"Imnot Apadmashri" wrote :
>
> You must be right about grammar. But isn't ????? / ????? sacrificed
> in an ??????? ?
>
Actually I am not sure about grammar (nominative vs accusative). My point
concerns the flow of logic. Lion does not fit in it, horse does.
The king performing Ashwamedh sends out an ashwa. Anybody willing to
challenge the king is expected to take possession of the horse, thus
signalling his intent to issue the challenge. That is what Lava and Kusha
did (and Mani Shankar Aiyar wetdreams of doing today) to the one from
Ayodhya, to a great extent because the twins had never seen such an animal.
They had only heard its description (pashchaat.h puchchhaM vahati vipulaM
...), perhaps from their guru Valmiki. I doubt whether that horse would
later be sacrificed. And if the custom was to sacrifice a horse (the special
one or some other horse) during the yaj~na after the hegemony was
established, I am not aware of it.
- dn
Imnot Apadmashri
I checked http://www3.aa.tufs.ac.jp/~tjun/sktdic/cgi-bin/dic-srch.cgi.
search `medha' in `Apte Dic'
meanings of "medha"
m.{a-stem}
1.a sacrifice;
2.a sacrificial animal or victim;
3.an offering;
4.the juice of meat;
5.sap
#37578
Over and out.
DG
naniwadekar
I had written :
>
> ...), perhaps from their guru Valmiki. I doubt whether that horse would
> later be sacrificed. And if the custom was to sacrifice a horse (the
special
> one or some other horse) during the yaj~na after the hegemony was
> established, I am not aware of it.
>
An article on Ashwmedha says the horse which was set free to roam
(apparently for an year) was the same one which was sacrified during the
yajna. Sounds odd but whatever .... The horse had to be older than 24 years
but less than 100. Apparently the word 'yajna' itself means sacrifice of
something into/unto the fire. I daresay the word is now often used to convey
'herculean effort directed toward a worthy task' without involving any
'sacrifice' (of life) for the sake of it.
- dn
Abhishek
From my last reading of a translated Rig Veda, I recall the horse had
to undergo a lot more than just ritual sacrifice. I won't mention all
that here to keep from adding to the 'horror' of this thread. Let's
just say that Ramanand Sagar's Ramayana carefully elided over these
details.
Further information is readily available on wiki...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashvamedha
~
A.
dvnsarma
The horse is sacrificed. Prior to that the Queen has to "sleep" with
the sacrificed horse. yes, sir. That is right. She has to.
regards,
Sarma.
Chetan Vinchhi
<sanjeev.ramabhad...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> With Halloween approaching, was curious to know from RMICers of any
> raags associated with or evoking the emotion of fear (this is both
> from a "theoretical" standpoint, i.e. according to the books, as well
> as personal experience, i.e. listening to this evokes a certain amount
> of fear in me)
In a lighter vein, if distress rather than fear satisfies you, perhaps
you are looking for a raags with PaReSaNi as a key phrase :)
C
Sanjeev Ramabhadran
Aaaargghhhh.... :-)