Suha Kannada
Mallar
morning, and if so what is the reason a Kannada raga would be
performed in the morning? Is there a possible common provenance with
Desi?
naniwadekar
"Mallar" <mallar_bh...@student.hms.harvard.edu> wrote -
>
> What is the correct prahar/time of day for Suha Kannada? Is it really
> morning, and if so what is the reason a Kannada raga would be
> performed in the morning?
>
I believe a Kannada raag (which I trust is just another term for
a Karnataka raag) can be performed any time since Carnatak music
does not believe in raag to time mappings. A question for Carnatic
experts : Does Shubhapantuvarali (Todi) still get performed mostly in
the morning only and Kalyani mostly in the evening between 6 PM
and 9 PM (the time when the Hindustani equivalent Yaman is
performed) or is the choice of a raag in a concert completely
independent of time? Has it ever been thus (the lack of raag to time
mapping) or is it a relatively recent practice to perform any raag
any time?
For what it is worth : I have heard Kishori Amonkar start
a 15-min Suha kaanaDaa recital at about 11 PM in a concert.
- dn
Irfan
I might be wrong but I think the only raag in the kanada group which
is of the day is sughrai kanada which is also called din ka kanada...I
read this in a tape of Pt. Mallikarjun Mansur. Hence, I think Suha
Kanada is a night raag. Regarding its commonalities with the chalan of
desi, I am not in a position to comment on such technicalities.
Irfan.
mallar_bh...@student.hms.harvard.edu (Mallar) wrote in message news:<5bb3b869.02101...@posting.google.com>...
Praful Kelkar
> mallar,
> I might be wrong but I think the only raag in the kanada group which
> is of the day is sughrai kanada which is also called din ka kanada...I
Suha is a late morning raag - although liberties are taken and it is
sung at night as well. As compared to the more gambhir kanadas
(darabari and nayaki) which are poorvang pradhan & very introspective,
Suha has brighter mood and it is uttarang pradhan, which can explain
why late morning suits it better. Sugharai is also late morning
raag, which is easier to see because of the effect of sarang on its
personality.
Praful
Chandrashekara K A
> a Karnataka raag) can be performed any time since Carnatak music
> does not believe in raag to time mappings. A question for Carnatic
> experts : Does Shubhapantuvarali (Todi) still get performed mostly in
has, by now, nothing to do with kannada (the language), karnataka, or
Carnatic Music.
Carnatic music has a couple ragas with the word kannada in them
including the famous raga "kannada" - very different from the kaanada
- in fact they are derived from different mElAs (former from
Shankarabharana and latter from Kharaharapriya).
I dont know enough about Hindustani music (as we southies term it :-)
) ... but based on the other raagas which are common only at the level
of nomenclature between carnatic and hindustani music (eg, todi) ...
And regarding the time of the day (and regarding Raga-Raagini kind of
treatment etc) - lakshana books written upto 1960s used to refer to
the time of the day for raagas, but in lakshya (as is heard today and
as can be surmised by reading books regarding musicians of
yester-centuries etc) there seems to be no importance attached to the
fact. I have heard many concerts (and concerts are mostly in the
night, except during the music season at madras) where
shuBapantuvarALi was rendered as the main rAga of the day ...
This could also be due the weaker concert-idiom we carnatic guys have
evolved for ourselves - the idiom pleases the masses and the
uninitiated ... but offers very little for the initiated as 12-13
pieces are presented at a breakneck pace in 2-2.5 hrs .... (FIRE WALL:
I am not a snob - it is a purely personal sentiment - its okay if
concerts are designed to please the masses :-).).
The weaker idiom does not let the artist really dwell on a rAga for
more than 30 minutes including the time spent in swara-gymnAstics and
song rendering. Where is the scope to experience the relevance of a
rAga for the time of the day etc (Not that there is a relationship -
there could be - but in any case, it is beyond what can be practically
experienced in a carnatic music concert).
Another point meriting discussion is the following
"
Raga and time-of-day relationship should be regarded as meant for the
practice sessions and "music for the musician" kind of sessions. At a
concert for the masses - its not relevant.
"
With best regards
Chandra
Surajit A. Bose
praful...@yahoo.com (Praful Kelkar) wrote:
> Suha is a late morning raag - although liberties are taken and it is
> sung at night as well. As compared to the more gambhir kanadas
> (darabari and nayaki) which are poorvang pradhan & very introspective,
Nayaki is introspective? It strikes me as more lively and playful.
-s
naniwadekar
"Surajit A. Bose" <psur...@netscape.net> wrote -
>
> praful...@yahoo.com (Praful Kelkar) wrote:
>
> > Suha is a late morning raag - although liberties are taken and it is
> > sung at night as well. As compared to the more gambhir kanadas
> > (darabari and nayaki) which are poorvang pradhan & very introspective,
>
> Nayaki is introspective? It strikes me as more lively and playful.
>
> -s
>
Jaipur Nayaki is more lively and playful. But Bade Ghulam's Nayaki,
while it can probably be seen as lively and playful also, seems quite
introspective to me. The current Bade Ghulam clip in sawf archives
(covering his recital from (guess) 10:00 minute mark in the original
complete recital to 12:40 mark) is introspective enough. But the clip
posted originally (from (say) 4:00 min mark to 6:40 mark) was really
quite introspective. Rajan changed this clip when he announced that
he had re-done many/all clips with a better tape-head. By then,
I was quite used to the original clip. One fine day, I revisited it,
expecting the familiar notes to issue forth. What a violent start it
gave me to hear something else! As brilliant as the new clip is,
the original clip was quite something.
As I understand, Bade Ghulam's and Ramrang's Nayaki is
closer to Darbari. Jaipur Nayaki is less close to Darbari. Small
wonder then that Bade Ghulam's Nayaki should sound more
introspective. The two camps approach R-P sangati in different
manner, hence the difference. (So I was told.) To wit, RP also
seems to have approached the two Bade Ghulam clips in
different manner.
- dn
Shree
I am assuming you mean suha kaanada (and not suha kannada). Please
check Rajan Parrikar's web article on kaanada prakaars at
http://www.sawf.org/newedit/edit12112000/musicarts2.asp.
I think 9-12 AM ('din ka doosra prahar'?) is the time for Suha, as I
have learnt. So is for Sughrai. I surely 'feel' that they are
daytime ragas as they have so much Saarang intertwined in them (esp.
Sughrai).
Related question :
Could someone tell me what is the time for Suha-Sughrai? After many
enquiries, all the learned people I came across tell me that it is a
midnight raga, but cannot reason WHY it is a midnight raga. My
argument is that since both Suha and Sughrai are daytime ragas,
Suha-Sughrai must also be a daytime raga; I have not received a
satisfactory explanantion yet.
The Suha-Sughrai I learnt is a uttaraanga-pradhan raaga with taar
rishabh as the vadi, pancham as samvadi, both nishaads and has a quite
dominant M-->R meend. I somehow do not 'feel' like singing/listening
this during midnight because of the dominant taar rishabh. Are there
any other versions of Suha-Sughrai? I hear there is a similar one
with a komal dhaivat garnish.
--Shree
Shree
> a Karnataka raag) can be performed any time since Carnatak music
> does not believe in raag to time mappings.
Is there such a thing called a 'Kannada raag'?
--Shree
shalak
Mallar
About your Suha-Sughrai question, I have an obliquely derived answer,
for what it's worth--there is an Ali Akbar Khan Suha Sughrai piece
toward the end of a video (called "Summer Solstice") of a morning
concert.
Mallar
maz...@hotmail.com (Shree) wrote in message news:<cb799687.02101...@posting.google.com>...
ChristianAMR
https://groups.google.com/g/rec.music.indian.classical/c/NL19YEEqELk/m/TuMlOXJhJFwJ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZTrq5EZsGE -- P Bh Jo " Tu hai Moha.... "