Thoughts on Riyaz
Abhishek
going through the ShadjaMadhyam website (an excellent resource, btw)
http://www.shadjamadhyam.com/training_in_indian_classical_music
I'm not going to give anything away or bias you by my words (just
yet). But I'd like the cognoscenti amongst us, especially teachers and
students of ICM, to comment on some of the issues highlighted in this
presentation.
~
Abhishek
P.S. Anyone know anything about the presenter - Dr. Sharangpani - the
name sounds vaguely familiar...
Abhay
(snip)
> P.S. Anyone know anything about the presenter - Dr. Sharangpani - the
> name sounds vaguely familiar...
Dr Rajiv Sharangpani is a very well-known - and highly regarded -
sports medicine specialist in Poona. He has also done a lot of work in
the area of ergonomics. I have no clue about his credentials vis-a-vis
music. He is the person you can see in the photographs demonstrating
right and wrong postures on slides 51-56.
[Disclaimer: Apart from having consulted him once about 20 years ago,
I have no connection with Dr Sharangpani.]
Warm regards,
Abhay
C Parthapratim
I think all the 57 slides are logically correct.
Abhishek
As opposed to being illogically correct or logically incorrect, i
guess?
C Parthapratim
illogically correct are some feelings, but then that can't be stated
as well, but here i was thinking of logically correct/incorrect, and
if you remember, earlier i borrowed references and concepts from
sports medicine ...
merry christmas!
Vishwaroopa Sharma
> going through the ShadjaMadhyam website
+
> I'm not going to give anything away or bias you by my words (just
> yet).
Dear Abhishek,
Please help me get rid of this ambiguity of the word intriguing.
[dictionary says:: intrigue= 1. Disturbingly provocative & 2. Capable
of arousing interest or curiosity]
:-P
~
V
Warren
> I stumbled upon this rather intriguing presentation on 'Riyaz' while
>
> I'm not going to give anything away or bias you by my words (just
> yet). But I'd like the cognoscenti amongst us, especially teachers and
> students of ICM, to comment on some of the issues highlighted in this
> presentation.
>
> ~
> Abhishek
> P.S. Anyone know anything about the presenter - Dr. Sharangpani - the
> name sounds vaguely familiar...
I have no quarrel with much of what he says. My own approach to
practice is probably similar in terms of the end result, although I
start with a different conceptual framework.
I know you want more, but I'm really tired and I'm going to bed. More
later...after I get a chance to write a response to the Ustadpole
thread.
WS
Abhishek
@Partha - that actually makes logical sense! (Merry Christmas, btw)
@Vishwaroopa - I didn't find anything particularly disturbing in this
(maybe I am missing out), so I'd stick with definition #2. An
intriguing word, 'intrigue' - dons many a hats... http://www.thefreedictionary.com/intrigue
@WS - You guessed it! I really wanted this to be a primer for a
discussion on teaching and riyaz.
What you hear most often being told to students is to 'practice,
practice, practice' - 8, 10, 12, 30 hours a day - all the greats did
(do?) it apparently. But this presentation actually talks of the
advantages of 'not over-practicing', which I found particularly
comforting...Overall, I tended to agree with most things said in the
presentation, although I did find it a tad prolix. So here're my 2
anna questions - how does a student of music get to a certain level of
preparedness? What milestones (levels of preparedness) should one set
at different times along one's evolution as a singer? How does one
decide on the most efficient route for personal riyaz (efficiency
being the key, here)? How does one gauge progress or (more critically)
retrogression for that matter?
These aren't just vague rhetorical queries, but issues that I feel
need to be highlighted to make the pedagogy and practice of our
(admittedly, very difficult) music more rigorous and fruitful.
~
Abhishek
C Parthapratim
> On Dec 23, 11:19 pm, Warren <war...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Dec 23, 11:15 am, Abhishek <asin...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > I stumbled upon this rather intriguing presentation on 'Riyaz' while
> > > going through the ShadjaMadhyam website (an excellent resource, btw)http://www.shadjamadhyam.com/training_in_indian_classical_music
>
> > > I'm not going to give anything away or bias you by my words (just
> > > yet). But I'd like the cognoscenti amongst us, especially teachers and
> > > students of ICM, to comment on some of the issues highlighted in this
> > > presentation.
>
> > > ~
> > > Abhishek
> > > P.S. Anyone know anything about the presenter - Dr. Sharangpani - the
> > > name sounds vaguely familiar...
>
> > I have no quarrel with much of what he says. My own approach to
> > practice is probably similar in terms of the end result, although I
> > start with a different conceptual framework.
>
> > I know you want more, but I'm really tired and I'm going to bed. More
> > later...after I get a chance to write a response to the Ustadpole
> > thread.
>
> > WS
>
> @Partha - that actually makes logical sense! (Merry Christmas, btw)
>
> @Vishwaroopa - I didn't find anything particularly disturbing in this
> (maybe I am missing out), so I'd stick with definition #2. An
>
> @WS - You guessed it! I really wanted this to be a primer for a
> discussion on teaching and riyaz.
>
> What you hear most often being told to students is to 'practice,
> practice, practice' - 8, 10, 12, 30 hours a day - all the greats did
> (do?) it apparently. But this presentation actually talks of the
> advantages of 'not over-practicing', which I found particularly
> comforting...Overall, I tended to agree with most things said in the
> presentation, although I did find it a tad prolix. So here're my 2
> anna questions - how does a student of music get to a certain level of
> preparedness? What milestones (levels of preparedness) should one set
> at different times along one's evolution as a singer? How does one
> decide on the most efficient route for personal riyaz (efficiency
> being the key, here)? How does one gauge progress or (more critically)
> retrogression for that matter?
>
> These aren't just vague rhetorical queries, but issues that I feel
> need to be highlighted to make the pedagogy and practice of our
> (admittedly, very difficult) music more rigorous and fruitful.
>
> ~
> Abhishek
I believe some elements in the skill-set are made for some voice
timbres and not for others. A particular ornamental combination, if it
comes to you naturally, it comes with one hour riyaaz only, if it
doesn't it doesn't no matter how long you practise. Practice won't
make me a BGK or BJ, but over-straining will spoil the possible
Abhishek or CPP that was naturally there. Mature Amir Khan Sahib never
practised too hard, but he believed that the "involvement with music"
that is mental practice or practice of desire to do things this or
that way was more important. It still is, for everybody.
Partha
Abhishek
Interesting point Partha - I have noticed the same with certain ragas
(I guess we can extrapolate the above hypothesis from alankars to
certain note-combinations). I am not sure if it is only one's vocal
timbre...my guess is that conditioning plays a role here as well -
after all, the brain is one's largest singing organ.
Now as a self-diagnostic tool, it would be nice if one could build a
predictive model saying these are the broad kinds of alankars that can
be done by a certain voice type...of course, the matter is compounded
by the fact that the voice is not a static entity, but changes/evolves/
fluctuates with time...
~
A.
C Parthapratim
I guess I have already presented, in the form of conjecture of course,
a working model in this group earlier -- where I tried to explore why
Amir Khan Sa'ab was at his zenith when singing Dhaivat-Pradhan raga,
or why Agra people are the most proficient ones when it comes to
Bilawal (Mel).
Consider the attack-sustain-release model of the main Shruti of Sa,
and observe that Amir Khan's attack is mostly on Dha, Faiyaz Khan's is
on Pa, while DVP's is on Ni. This model applies for almost all notes,
and whenever the Raga fits in the model, it becomes the given artists'
forte. Several factors like genetically obtained physique,
conditioning through Gharanedar taleem, and personal effort together
determine the end result. For Chhaya Nat, I'll go to FK, but for
Shuddh KalyaN or Marwa I'd stick to AK -- like that.
Again, the greater is the distance between attack and sustain
frequencies, the more the artist is into wider Gamak, so that
determines why FK like taankari is not available from DVP or UK.
BGAK's Sa is usually PSNS, means his voice is more supple, and
accurate ... and so on.
Partha
Vishwaroopa Sharma
Can you cite the original post?
C Parthapratim
It was in a thread early this year,please check my profile to find.
I'll try to find myself, too.