DJ Premier - God VS The Devil (New mixtape)...
Danger3210
The Lupe Fiasco song, "Kick Push" is currently on repeat (with no end
in sight)...
-
I really really REALLY hate hip-hop nowadays... That is all...
Grand NATTY IU
sucks dick. I'll pass(even with the 'Face tracks).
Danger3210 wrote:
> Best mixtape PRODUCER of the year in 1994 maybe!... PERIOD...
1. DJ Premier - "God vs Tha Devil Intro"
2. MP3 WMA Craig G - "Letter To New York"
3. Blaq Poet - "You F*%c/d Up"
4. MobbDeep - "Capital P, Capital H"
5. Little Brother (F Skyzoo) - "Spped Racer"
6 Ray Cash (F Scarface) - "Bumpin My Music"
7. Axe - "100 To 1"
8. Roscoe P Coldchain - "Whut Itz All About"
9. Blaq Poet - "FAYBAN 2006"
10. Scarface - "Gotta Get Paid"
11. Rick Ross - "Hustlin"
12. MC Lyte (F Shabeeno/NYGz) - "Wonder Years"
13. Lupe Fiasco - "Kick Push"
14. J Dilla - "One Eleven"
15. J Dilla - "Waves"
16. J Dilla - "One For Ghost"
17. Ghostface Killah - "Whip You With A Strap"
18. NYG'z (F St Laz) - "Laundry Kings"
19. Busta Rhymes ( F Swizz Beatz, Tef) - "NY Shift"
20. Playaz Circle - "You Ain't Got Enough"
21. Pubilc Enemy - "Invisible Man"
DAF
Danger3210
Uhhh, first off, why bash something before you even HEAR it??? Second,
what should the tracklisting look like???
My only complaint about tape is the 1 or 2 southern songs that made the
cut (funny since the first couple songs bash the whole Southern
movement)...
Again, tho I'm really REALLY hatin the whole Southern era nowadays so
maybe I'm biased here but I was feelin this tape on the first listen
yesterday (and again, KICK PUSH alone is makin me love this tape...)
Also it's cool to hear a mixtape where the DJ actually MIXES and
SCRATCHES the songs... I think that also made me love it instantly...
nesta
Danger3210 wrote:
>
> I really really REALLY hate hip-hop nowadays... That is all...
I don't believe this at all. since this became your sig, you seem to
be gushing about something new every single week. i can't remember the
last time i felt so strong about anything.
JKS
I've been meaning to say that too :)
TJ Xenos
Im guessing it has somehting to do with the horrendous track
selection, an opinion that I have based on hearing many of the songs.
I mean, 3 fucking dilla songs in a row? The worst song off the ghost
record? NYG'z? Poet remaking the one song he had that came remotely
close to a hit? Also, fuck rick ross and fuck that song, dude's bunk.
The only songs on here that even sound like they might be good are the
Lupe Fiasco and Mobb Deep joints, and I only am interested in hearing
that joint because of the amount of discussion it generated on here...
>
> My only complaint about tape is the 1 or 2 southern songs that made the
> cut (funny since the first couple songs bash the whole Southern
> movement)...
>
> Again, tho I'm really REALLY hatin the whole Southern era nowadays so
> maybe I'm biased here but I was feelin this tape on the first listen
> yesterday (and again, KICK PUSH alone is makin me love this tape...)
>
> Also it's cool to hear a mixtape where the DJ actually MIXES and
> SCRATCHES the songs... I think that also made me love it instantly...
Uhhhh. Have you ever listened to a swisha house cd? It's mostly bs
new york radio personality "dj's" that are on that non mixing just drop
a sound effect between songs instead of blending shit, not southern
cats....
STRATEGY
and until the recent "artist mixtape" craze, Cali mix tapes were always
way more DJ-centric than their NY counterparts, this has been true
since the mid-eighties.
STRATEGY
Jay Sidhu
Its kinda suspect that he's got both of his label's artists on here.
I'm feeling the Blaq Poet album though it's pretty decent.
>>
>> My only complaint about tape is the 1 or 2 southern songs that made the
>> cut (funny since the first couple songs bash the whole Southern
>> movement)...
>>
>> Again, tho I'm really REALLY hatin the whole Southern era nowadays so
>> maybe I'm biased here but I was feelin this tape on the first listen
>> yesterday (and again, KICK PUSH alone is makin me love this tape...)
>>
>> Also it's cool to hear a mixtape where the DJ actually MIXES and
>> SCRATCHES the songs... I think that also made me love it instantly...
>
>Uhhhh. Have you ever listened to a swisha house cd? It's mostly bs
>new york radio personality "dj's" that are on that non mixing just drop
>a sound effect between songs instead of blending shit, not southern
>cats....
>
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> I really really REALLY hate hip-hop nowadays... That is all...
Peace!
Jay Sidhu
www.rmhh.com
www.myspace.com/jaysidhu
2006 Good Albums:
M-1 - Confidental
DMC - Checks Thugs and Rock N Roll
Apathy - Eastern Philosophy
The Procussions - Five Sparrows for Two Cents
MURS and 9th Wonder - Murray's Revenges
T.I. - King
Bronze Nazareth - The Great Migration
suntzu
"whip you with a strap" is definitely not the worst song on fishscale.
i'm not sure what is, but there are other tracks i'm quicker to skip.
Danger3210
First off, Primo was just giving the guy a tribute on his tape... And
secondly, the two tracks before Whip You last like less than a
minute... He just plays 3 Dilla beats for like a minute and that's
it...
> The worst song off the ghost
> record?
Disagreed completely... Dogs of War, Momma, Kilo, and Three Bricks are
worse... It's not one of my favorites but it's a nice track...
> NYG'z?
Song is hot tho...
> Poet remaking the one song he had that came remotely
> close to a hit?
Yeah, that song aint all that...
> Also, fuck rick ross and fuck that song, dude's bunk.
I know nothing about the guy but I can't stand that song... That was
the main "Southern" sounding song that I was talking about that didn't
fit in with the rest of the tape...
> The only songs on here that even sound like they might be good are the
> Lupe Fiasco and Mobb Deep joints, and I only am interested in hearing
> that joint because of the amount of discussion it generated on here...
>
I like almost every song except for that Rick Ross song... That's the
only song I 100% hate...
> >
> > My only complaint about tape is the 1 or 2 southern songs that made the
> > cut (funny since the first couple songs bash the whole Southern
> > movement)...
> >
> > Again, tho I'm really REALLY hatin the whole Southern era nowadays so
> > maybe I'm biased here but I was feelin this tape on the first listen
> > yesterday (and again, KICK PUSH alone is makin me love this tape...)
> >
> > Also it's cool to hear a mixtape where the DJ actually MIXES and
> > SCRATCHES the songs... I think that also made me love it instantly...
>
> Uhhhh. Have you ever listened to a swisha house cd? It's mostly bs
> new york radio personality "dj's" that are on that non mixing just drop
> a sound effect between songs instead of blending shit, not southern
> cats....
>
I know that... And that's why it's a welcome change of pace cause
almost all NY mixtapes dont do any mixing or scratching...
I never listened to a Swisha House cd (aren't those the cds with the
screwed and chopped ish -- cause again I really dont GET that either...
It just doesn't sound good to me...)
Either way, bottom line, the Premier tape is worth hearing...
I mean damn... It's JUST a mixtape, people!!!
Danger3210
I made that sig last fall when there were few to NO good albums out
(especially East coast shit)... The only albums I remember coming out
were AZ (which was the best of that time by far), the Juelz CD (which
was disappointing), the Sheek Louch album (which I played like once and
wasnt that impressed), and the Biggie Duets album which I thought was
decent...
And that was IT... It was just a slow period for Eastcoast hip-hop...
Add to that I wasn't feeling ANYTHING on the radio... I mean granted
radio hip-hop has been on some bullshit for a while now but still there
was always a couple songs I would like... Now there's NOTHING... It's
just ALL country... I dont live in Houston!!! I dont live in Atlanta!!!
That shit just doesn't move me... Again, I like songs here and there
but there are few and far between...
So when I say I hate hip-hop it's popular hip-hop... The whole Southern
era... Just my opinion but I just aint feelin it... Sorry... I'm
eagerly anticipating the next movement (whatever that will be) and
hoping it will be better than this...
-
Grand NATTY IU
is based on scratching and mixing. I apologize for hating for the sake
of it, but why hate the South if you don't even listen to the mixes.
DJ Screw, DJ Bull, DJ Yellaboy, DJ Rapid Ric, OG Ron C, Mike Watts all
mix and scratch. It's an East Coast thing to call a compilation a
mixtape - and I agree that that's wack.
BTW, after ranting I see Xenos already covered most of this. Fact of
the matter is that the South, Texas in particular, has been the only
thing keeping the integrity of street hip-hop alive... throwed mixes,
freestyles, tapes with a 'live' feel, scratching, doubling up,
phazing... all that. And they usually give you a regular mix if you
can't take it slow.
DAF
Grand NATTY IU
uneventful lately. True - West Coast mixtapes (especially the (second)
golden age of Apollo, Pirate DJs and Rectangle) were amazing. Throwed
ass dj mixes of music that DIDN'T suck!
DAF
Grand NATTY IU
era... >>
Well, I don't get my news from MTV and the Source, so I don't even know
what a Southern Era is... new shit in Texas sounds pretty much exactly
like what was coming out in TX 15 years ago. It's like the fucking
Tuva of hip-hop - it's been unadulterated and pure for going on 20
years. Towards the mid 90s they started (due to Screw) getting
seriously influenced by G-Funk (whuch was influenced by them) but other
than that, Texas has remained a constant source of genuine hip-hop.
I'm not talking about snap or crunk or whatever the new TRL trend is...
I'm talking Rap A Lot, Beatbox Records, Wildlife, Beltway 8, Street
Pharmacy etc... Check the underground out - you might like it
(especially if you think the golden era of hip-hop lies somewhere
between 87-94.) Don't believe the hype!
DAF
Danger3210
Doesn't mean a damn thing if I dont like the MUSIC... I mean granted
I'm talking about popular, mainstream hip-hop which is
Southern-dominated... (Shit on the radio, shit on MTV, BET, etc...)
Pretty much the artists that are being promoted HEAVY are either
Southern or Dr. Dre affiliated and THAT'S IT... I'm not talking about
underground ish and yeah I know a billion people here are gonna say
(and have already said) you should go and search for that good
hip-hop... F that... I mean I do because most of the stuff I listen to
doesn't even get played on the radio but it's just sad that I can't
turn on the radio or turn on the TV anymore and listen to the music I
WANT TO LISTEN TO... And I'm not saying everything has to be east
coast... Again, the 90s (which I know people are tired of me saying
this) just had a blend of everything... Sure, the East was very
prevalent but so was the West... You also had good Southern acts like
Outkast, Scarface, Too Short, etc... It was a nice blend... It wasn't
really just one coast or section and even so every artist was different
and unique... To me, every Southern guy just sounds the same... Call it
ignorance cause I dont STUDY the shit cause I dont really LIKE to
listen to it but it just does to me... (And usually when someone hates
a genre of music or doesn't understand it, they will make that comment,
"It all sounds the same...")
Again, I dont really listen to the underground but it's a damn shame I
gotta turn on the radio in NEW YORK CITY and hear some Southern guy,
dont know what the hell he's saying cause I can't understand him, talk
about pimp cups, ice grills, and candy paint, over some simple as fuck
beat that my 10 year old nephew could make...
Meanwhile guys like Ghostface, AZ, etc can't get consistent radio
rotation if they were shot dead in the streets...
Just my viewpoint... Actually I've given up on popular hip-hop getting
better... I just want to be able to hear the artists I like continue to
make their albums... It would just be NICE to actually have those
artists get SOME airtime...
Grand NATTY IU
Danger3210 wrote:
You also had good Southern acts like
> Outkast, Scarface, Too Short, etc...
Too Short's from Oakland. And coming back to the East Coast after 12
years I can honestly say that the reason cats are so up on the South s
because today's East Coast rap sucks ass.
DAF
Grand NATTY IU
Danger3210 wrote:
You also had good Southern acts like
> Outkast, Scarface, Too Short, etc...
Too Short's from Oakland. And coming back to the East Coast after 12
Grand NATTY IU
Danger3210 wrote:
You also had good Southern acts like
> Outkast, Scarface, Too Short, etc...
Too Short's from Oakland. And coming back to the East Coast after 12
Grand NATTY IU
Danger3210 wrote:
You also had good Southern acts like
> Outkast, Scarface, Too Short, etc...
Too Short's from Oakland. And coming back to the East Coast after 12
Grand NATTY IU
Danger3210 wrote:
You also had good Southern acts like
> Outkast, Scarface, Too Short, etc...
Too Short's from Oakland. And coming back to the East Coast after 12
TJ Xenos
Danger3210 wrote:
> Grand NATTY IU wrote:
> > Every DJ I listen to mixes and scratches... as the whole Screw movement
> > is based on scratching and mixing. I apologize for hating for the sake
> > of it, but why hate the South if you don't even listen to the mixes.
> > DJ Screw, DJ Bull, DJ Yellaboy, DJ Rapid Ric, OG Ron C, Mike Watts all
> > mix and scratch. It's an East Coast thing to call a compilation a
> > mixtape - and I agree that that's wack.
> >
> >
> > BTW, after ranting I see Xenos already covered most of this. Fact of
> > the matter is that the South, Texas in particular, has been the only
> > thing keeping the integrity of street hip-hop alive... throwed mixes,
> > freestyles, tapes with a 'live' feel, scratching, doubling up,
> > phazing... all that. And they usually give you a regular mix if you
> > can't take it slow.
> >
>
> Doesn't mean a damn thing if I dont like the MUSIC... I mean granted
> I'm talking about popular, mainstream hip-hop which is
> Southern-dominated... (Shit on the radio, shit on MTV, BET, etc...)
I dont watch any of that bullshit so I'll conced the point.
>
> Pretty much the artists that are being promoted HEAVY are either
> Southern or Dr. Dre affiliated and THAT'S IT...
Whom are we talking about here exactly? Bubba Sparxxx? Mobb Deep?
Dipset? Paul Wall? Dem Franchise Boys? Tony Yayo? I honestly have
no clue what gets run on TV/radio, but what about Kanye?
>I'm not talking about
> underground ish and yeah I know a billion people here are gonna say
> (and have already said) you should go and search for that good
> hip-hop... F that... I mean I do because most of the stuff I listen to
> doesn't even get played on the radio but it's just sad that I can't
> turn on the radio or turn on the TV anymore and listen to the music I
> WANT TO LISTEN TO... And I'm not saying everything has to be east
The radio has always sucked. It's not like they were playing shook
ones in 94, they were playing fucking Warren G. Unless you're talking
about NYC radio which of course repped for home court even when all the
national shit was all G-funk all the time. Also, all I really have to
say is, now you know how cats in the west felt until 93 and cats in the
south felt until after the millenium when there was nothing but NYC all
the time.
> coast... Again, the 90s (which I know people are tired of me saying
> this) just had a blend of everything... Sure, the East was very
> prevalent but so was the West... You also had good Southern acts like
> Outkast, Scarface, Too Short, etc... It was a nice blend... It wasn't
I dont remember seeing outkast on any major media until Aquemini, which
IIRC was 98 when the south came up via no limit etc after Big and Pac
died and as a result so did the commercial appeal of g-funk and grimey
nyc hiphop (arguably Life After Death killed grimey NYC hiphop...)
> really just one coast or section and even so every artist was different
> and unique... To me, every Southern guy just sounds the same... Call it
> ignorance cause I dont STUDY the shit cause I dont really LIKE to
> listen to it but it just does to me... (And usually when someone hates
> a genre of music or doesn't understand it, they will make that comment,
> "It all sounds the same...")
Replace southern with northeast, and deal with it for 20 years and
maybe you'll understand how cats down south felt.
>
> Again, I dont really listen to the underground but it's a damn shame I
> gotta turn on the radio in NEW YORK CITY and hear some Southern guy,
> dont know what the hell he's saying cause I can't understand him, talk
> about pimp cups, ice grills, and candy paint, over some simple as fuck
> beat that my 10 year old nephew could make...
"Id rather hear some guy talk about coke and rugers over some hard
sampled drums and a jazz loop"
>
> Meanwhile guys like Ghostface, AZ, etc can't get consistent radio
> rotation if they were shot dead in the streets...
Both those dudes have had over a decade to prove they can sell enough
to get push from the record label and havent had a whole lot of
success. Ironman IIRC was the least successful of the first round of
wu solos (coming later after the buzz had died down) and by the time SC
dropped wu was basically dead. Regardless of how good ghost is (best
emcee ever for my money) if he dont sell records the label aint gonna
push him, so listeners aint gonna get to hear him and if they dont hear
him they cant like his shit and want to hear him more.
>
> Just my viewpoint... Actually I've given up on popular hip-hop getting
> better... I just want to be able to hear the artists I like continue to
> make their albums... It would just be NICE to actually have those
> artists get SOME airtime...
Get satellite radio. The dollar amounts involved in terrestrial radio
are way too high for cats that sell 200k every time out to attract
enough listeners for the station get good money for ad time, which is
why you basically have to go gold/plat out the gate in order to get a
push for your next shit.
ILL
> dropped wu was basically dead. Regardless of how good ghost is (best
> emcee ever for my money) if he dont sell records the label aint gonna
> push him, so listeners aint gonna get to hear him and if they dont hear
> him they cant like his shit and want to hear him more.
But how's he going to sell if the label don't push him? You're thinking
in circles.
--
ILL
Danger3210
Grand NATTY IU wrote:
> Danger3210 wrote:
> You also had good Southern acts like
> > Outkast, Scarface, Too Short, etc...
>
> Too Short's from Oakland.
Yeah, my bad on that one... I was kinda stuck on Southern cats I
actually liked and was trying desperately to name a 3rd act...
> And coming back to the East Coast after 12
> years I can honestly say that the reason cats are so up on the South s
> because today's East Coast rap sucks ass.
>
Please dont tell me you REALLY believe the reason why the South is so
prevalent nowadays in the mainstream is because the music is SOOOO
GOOD...
The success of a song, act, or label IMO is all about how you are
promoted, PERIOD... Again, I aint claimin to be some insider that knows
everything but that's just the way I see it... 50 Cent aint the
greatest rapper of all time, he's just promoted like that... He had a
great machine behind him (Dre and Em) and he had incredible
promotion...
It's like you put a bullshit story out there so much, over and over
again, eventually people will believe your bullshit as the gospel... 50
Cent got promoted so much as the next big thing, the next Pac, the guy
that survived nine shots, what-have-you that eventually people believed
he was this bigger than life figure BEFORE they even heard his album...
And I'm just using 50 as an example but the South is dominant right now
because of promotion... Not because they're makin great music... You
play a song enough, people will like it (look at that Laffy Taffy
song)... And I aint the only one that thinks hip-hop is GARBAGE
nowadays... It aint just me and it aint just an NY thing...
Shit I dont see how ANYONE could think this is a GREAT time for
hip-hop... (Again, I'm talking about the mainstream... in the US...
Nothing else...)
Danger3210
TJ Xenos wrote:
> Danger3210 wrote:
> > Grand NATTY IU wrote:
> > > Every DJ I listen to mixes and scratches... as the whole Screw movement
> > > is based on scratching and mixing. I apologize for hating for the sake
> > > of it, but why hate the South if you don't even listen to the mixes.
> > > DJ Screw, DJ Bull, DJ Yellaboy, DJ Rapid Ric, OG Ron C, Mike Watts all
> > > mix and scratch. It's an East Coast thing to call a compilation a
> > > mixtape - and I agree that that's wack.
> > >
> > >
> > > BTW, after ranting I see Xenos already covered most of this. Fact of
> > > the matter is that the South, Texas in particular, has been the only
> > > thing keeping the integrity of street hip-hop alive... throwed mixes,
> > > freestyles, tapes with a 'live' feel, scratching, doubling up,
> > > phazing... all that. And they usually give you a regular mix if you
> > > can't take it slow.
> > >
> >
> > Doesn't mean a damn thing if I dont like the MUSIC... I mean granted
> > I'm talking about popular, mainstream hip-hop which is
> > Southern-dominated... (Shit on the radio, shit on MTV, BET, etc...)
>
> I dont watch any of that bullshit so I'll conced the point.
>
I really dont anymore either... but every now and then I'll hear the
radio or watch a music video and will just be astonished at how BAD
hip-hop is nowadays...
> >
> > Pretty much the artists that are being promoted HEAVY are either
> > Southern or Dr. Dre affiliated and THAT'S IT...
>
> Whom are we talking about here exactly? Bubba Sparxxx? Mobb Deep?
> Dipset? Paul Wall? Dem Franchise Boys? Tony Yayo? I honestly have
> no clue what gets run on TV/radio, but what about Kanye?
>
TI, Mike Jones, Paul Wall, Lil' Wayne, Dem Franchise Boys, Young Jeezy,
Chamillionaire, 3-6, Lil' Jon, Ying Yang, shit I dont even know the
people that made that HORRIBLE Laffy Taffy song, or the shit about
white tees, or whatever the hell bullshit is being played right now...
Granted, I actually like some of the artists I mentioned or I can at
least tolerate them... I just wish there was more of a blend or mix of
artists, sounds, areas, etc... ESPECIALLY in NYC... The South
DOMINATING NYC radio/music/hip-hop is just sad...
Kanye is one of the FEW exceptions and even tho I HATE his "I'm bigger
than Jesus" conceited attitude, he's a nice breath of fresh air in an
era of bullshit...
> >I'm not talking about
> > underground ish and yeah I know a billion people here are gonna say
> > (and have already said) you should go and search for that good
> > hip-hop... F that... I mean I do because most of the stuff I listen to
> > doesn't even get played on the radio but it's just sad that I can't
> > turn on the radio or turn on the TV anymore and listen to the music I
> > WANT TO LISTEN TO... And I'm not saying everything has to be east
>
> The radio has always sucked. It's not like they were playing shook
> ones in 94, they were playing fucking Warren G. Unless you're talking
> about NYC radio which of course repped for home court even when all the
> national shit was all G-funk all the time.
NYC was playing Shook Ones and Warren G... There was more of a blend
than now... Granted it was mostly NY acts (especially during the whole
East/West feud) but again there was more of a blend... And there was
DEFINITELY a blend on TV, (MTV and BET)... You watch Rap City back in
96 and you would see artists from everywhere around the US... Again,
sure it was MOSTLY East and West but there was still more of a blend...
(And not just different areas but different KINDS of sounds... It
didn't just all sound the same...) Now you watch it and everything is
from the South and everything sounds the same...
> Also, all I really have to
> say is, now you know how cats in the west felt until 93 and cats in the
> south felt until after the millenium when there was nothing but NYC all
> the time.
>
Still tho, even when Chronic and Doggystyle dropped and the NY was
playing almost nothing but Westcoast shit, at least again in my HUMBLE
opinion, IT WAS GOOD MUSIC!!! If the music was good, I aint got no
complaints... I just aint feelin the South... Period...
> > coast... Again, the 90s (which I know people are tired of me saying
> > this) just had a blend of everything... Sure, the East was very
> > prevalent but so was the West... You also had good Southern acts like
> > Outkast, Scarface, Too Short, etc... It was a nice blend... It wasn't
>
> I dont remember seeing outkast on any major media until Aquemini, which
> IIRC was 98 when the south came up via no limit etc after Big and Pac
> died and as a result so did the commercial appeal of g-funk and grimey
> nyc hiphop (arguably Life After Death killed grimey NYC hiphop...)
>
Outkast got some play during their first album... On TV and radio...
They weren't superstars or nothing but I remember Player's Ball,
Southernplayalistic, Get Up Get Out getting some airtime on radio and
TV...
Elevators got a lot of airtime too even in NYC...
> > really just one coast or section and even so every artist was different
> > and unique... To me, every Southern guy just sounds the same... Call it
> > ignorance cause I dont STUDY the shit cause I dont really LIKE to
> > listen to it but it just does to me... (And usually when someone hates
> > a genre of music or doesn't understand it, they will make that comment,
> > "It all sounds the same...")
>
> Replace southern with northeast, and deal with it for 20 years and
> maybe you'll understand how cats down south felt.
>
But you also got to understand that the northeast INVENTED this
music... We started it... And again, I aint even saying every station
should be blasting NY ish but there should be more of a mix... That's
my main point...
> >
> > Again, I dont really listen to the underground but it's a damn shame I
> > gotta turn on the radio in NEW YORK CITY and hear some Southern guy,
> > dont know what the hell he's saying cause I can't understand him, talk
> > about pimp cups, ice grills, and candy paint, over some simple as fuck
> > beat that my 10 year old nephew could make...
>
> "Id rather hear some guy talk about coke and rugers over some hard
> sampled drums and a jazz loop"
>
YEah, I would actually... Just my preference... I actually love
violent, gangsta rap... It's like watching Scarface (the movie) or
Goodfellas... I'm not a violent person by any means really but I love
violent entertainment and I love violent rap... Especially if it's done
right and the person talks about the good and evils of living that kind
of lifestyle... The shit can be powerful if done the right way...
I dont see HOW pimp cups and ice grills can EVER be moving or emotional
or powerful music... Again, the music doesn't move me... I listen to
Ready To Die and that shit moves me... I like any hip-hop or music in
general that is either saying something worth listening to OR has a
good beat and to me the majority of Southern songs I HEAR has
neither...
> >
> > Meanwhile guys like Ghostface, AZ, etc can't get consistent radio
> > rotation if they were shot dead in the streets...
>
> Both those dudes have had over a decade to prove they can sell enough
> to get push from the record label and havent had a whole lot of
> success. Ironman IIRC was the least successful of the first round of
> wu solos (coming later after the buzz had died down) and by the time SC
> dropped wu was basically dead. Regardless of how good ghost is (best
> emcee ever for my money) if he dont sell records the label aint gonna
> push him, so listeners aint gonna get to hear him and if they dont hear
> him they cant like his shit and want to hear him more.
>
>
The promotion has to come first tho... If the artist gets little to no
promotion, or the WRONG kind of promotion (just throwing a guy on an
R&B track RARELY works) he's not gonna sell... Also the longer an
artist is around (and he aint selling shit), the harder it is for him
to sell a record... A guy like AZ has been around so long it's probably
virtually impossible for him even to sell a substantial amount of
records EVEN IF he gets promoted well... There's too many new guys
coming up and the public is very fickle...
> > Just my viewpoint... Actually I've given up on popular hip-hop getting
> > better... I just want to be able to hear the artists I like continue to
> > make their albums... It would just be NICE to actually have those
> > artists get SOME airtime...
>
> Get satellite radio. The dollar amounts involved in terrestrial radio
> are way too high for cats that sell 200k every time out to attract
> enough listeners for the station get good money for ad time, which is
> why you basically have to go gold/plat out the gate in order to get a
> push for your next shit.
Yeah, maybe... I mean I'm pretty much content with d'ling and burning
my own comps... But more and more people are bumpin satellite shit... I
might just do that eventually...
I'm also gonna start focusin more on the underground too but again it's
real sad to even attempt to listen to the radio in NYC...
Grand NATTY IU
with Dem Franchize Boyz at all. Like saying Wu Tang and 50 Cent...
it's Apples and Oranges. I'm usually anti-mainstream across the
board... except for the flukes (like Three 6.) True, I prefer older
Three to newer stuff, but they've maintained a consistent sound
throughout their careers, and production wise they can't be fucked
with.
Im pretty much done with this debate as we'll talk in circles ad
infinitum...
DAF
Danger3210
Read the post thoroughly... TJ was asking what artists I was
complaining about that was getting most of the airtime/screentime
nowadays and I just listed a bunch of Southern acts... I pretty much
know NOTHING about DFB but I've actually liked my share of 3-6 songs...
I cant say I've ever liked any of their albums... Tried to play their
last and I didnt like it... I liked their singles tho (a lot
actually... Stay Fly was one of my favorite singles last year
actually)... And I liked a couple of their singles from years back but
still like I said I dont hate EVERYTHING but just most of it...
But I wasnt really comparing those two actually...
And I can talk about this ALL DAY... Straight up...
suntzu
> Grand NATTY IU wrote:
>> Danger3210 wrote:
>> You also had good Southern acts like
>>> Outkast, Scarface, Too Short, etc...
>> Too Short's from Oakland.
>
> Yeah, my bad on that one... I was kinda stuck on Southern cats I
> actually liked and was trying desperately to name a 3rd act...
>
>> And coming back to the East Coast after 12
>> years I can honestly say that the reason cats are so up on the South s
>> because today's East Coast rap sucks ass.
>>
>
> Please dont tell me you REALLY believe the reason why the South is so
> prevalent nowadays in the mainstream is because the music is SOOOO
> GOOD...
>
you guys are going in circles. you keep mentioning the mainstream, and
natty keeps mentioning that most of what he's talking about isn't the
southern hip-hop that's getting radio play.
> And I'm just using 50 as an example but the South is dominant right now
> because of promotion... Not because they're makin great music... You
> play a song enough, people will like it (look at that Laffy Taffy
> song)... And I aint the only one that thinks hip-hop is GARBAGE
> nowadays... It aint just me and it aint just an NY thing...
i don't think "laffy taffy" is at all an example of the sort of thing
natty and xenos are listening to from the south.
>
> Shit I dont see how ANYONE could think this is a GREAT time for
> hip-hop... (Again, I'm talking about the mainstream... in the US...
> Nothing else...)
>
yeah, but no one else is talking about the mainstream, all the stuff
other people are mentioning is underground southern stuff. which you
also may not like, or may not have heard, or whatever, but it doesn't
seem like that's what you're talking about (even though that's what
natty's been talking about this whole time).
also, you mentioned that you shouldn't have to search outside of the
mainstream for stuff you like, which is kind of absurd. i agree, it
sucks that most mainstream stuff isn't better, but it's not like you're
owed exactly the type of music you want with no effort to search it out.
look around, i'm sure there's plenty of stuff out there that you'll
like. i'll admit, it's been a slow year so far, but it's not devoid of
anything good, and there's so much old stuff out there that there's
always something you can play catch-up on.
suntzu
> I dont remember seeing outkast on any major media until Aquemini, which
> IIRC was 98 when the south came up via no limit etc after Big and Pac
> died and as a result so did the commercial appeal of g-funk and grimey
> nyc hiphop (arguably Life After Death killed grimey NYC hiphop...)
"get up get out" got a lot of BET play when the first album dropped
(that's how i first heard outkast), and both "jazzy belle" and "ATLiens"
got heavy MTV play (relative to the amount of hip-hop they played in
general). "ATLiens" even got a fair bit of rap radio play.
suntzu
>> I dont remember seeing outkast on any major media until Aquemini, which
>> IIRC was 98 when the south came up via no limit etc after Big and Pac
>> died and as a result so did the commercial appeal of g-funk and grimey
>> nyc hiphop (arguably Life After Death killed grimey NYC hiphop...)
>>
>
> Outkast got some play during their first album... On TV and radio...
> They weren't superstars or nothing but I remember Player's Ball,
> Southernplayalistic, Get Up Get Out getting some airtime on radio and
> TV...
>
> Elevators got a lot of airtime too even in NYC...
i completely forgot about "elevators", i actually remember that getting
a somewhat significant amount of video play (BET and MTV). and i heard
it on the radio at the time too, but now that i think about it, i was
living in the dallas area then, so i guess they were a lot more likely
to play southern stuff anyway (i actually found out about devin back in
98 or 99 because the rap radio station in the dallas area would play
underground stuff for a couple hours after 11 on mondays or something,
and i immediately had to go get "the dude" after hearing "see what i
could pull").
>
>>> really just one coast or section and even so every artist was different
>>> and unique... To me, every Southern guy just sounds the same... Call it
>>> ignorance cause I dont STUDY the shit cause I dont really LIKE to
>>> listen to it but it just does to me... (And usually when someone hates
>>> a genre of music or doesn't understand it, they will make that comment,
>>> "It all sounds the same...")
>> Replace southern with northeast, and deal with it for 20 years and
>> maybe you'll understand how cats down south felt.
>>
>
> But you also got to understand that the northeast INVENTED this
> music... We started it...
that has nothing to do with anything. take that logic far enough, and
rap radio would have to hit a certain daily quota of playing bootlegs of
kool herc spinning at block parties. i'm not saying disregard the past
(i mean, when i lived in LA for a bit last year, i loved KDAY because
they'd do stuff like putting on "halftime" right after that ciara song
"oh", in the middle of the day). but slavish devotion to the beginnings
of an artform is no good either. like you said play what's good, period.
suntzu
> well, we're all disagreeing. I don't think it is fair to group Three 6
> with Dem Franchize Boyz at all. Like saying Wu Tang and 50 Cent...
> it's Apples and Oranges. I'm usually anti-mainstream across the
> board... except for the flukes (like Three 6.) True, I prefer older
> Three to newer stuff, but they've maintained a consistent sound
> throughout their careers, and production wise they can't be fucked
> with.
>
co-sign
nesta
suntzu wrote:
>
> > But you also got to understand that the northeast INVENTED this
> > music... We started it...
>
> that has nothing to do with anything.
of course it does. If you were gonna listen to rap back in the day,
where the fuck you think most of it came from? So this argument that
the South was "forced" to listen to the tri-state for 20 years is
nonsense. If they didn't listen to it, they wouldn't have been into
hip-hop at all.
suntzu
sorry, i thought it was implied that i was saying "nothing to do with
anything we're talking about (what gets played on the radio)".
or are you suggesting that there always be NY hip-hop on the radio just
because that was hip-hop's birthplace, regardless of what the quality of
NY hip-hop at the time may be?
TJ Xenos
Way to skip the preceding paragraph where I pointed out that ghost and
AZ have been given opportunities to move units and failed, these guys
aint new underground emcees, they're major label vets of over a decade.
Hell even pretty toney got pushed heavily off that joint with missy and
he still only sold half gold...
TJ Xenos
BULLSHIT. Rapalot has been putting out records for 20 years. Too
$hort and Ice T have been rapping for 25 years. The West has been
getting national play for about 12 years and the south for maybe 6.
Now explain to me how from 86-2000 the south wasnt being forced to
listen to NYC hiphop (and LA to some extent in the later portion of
that) when they had their own artists?
Aslo, picking on Dem Franchise Boyz and D4L is like saying NYC hiphop
sucks because of ja rule.
Also, the key reason why these southern acts (as well as dipset and
g-unit) keep getting signed and pushed is they proved they can sell
records without promotion and get deals off their street sales numbers.
50 got big label promotion because he had a huge street buzz. He had
a huge street buzz because he hustled his ass off pushing mixtapes. He
wasn't one of those cats who drops his album, does a couple shows, then
bitches about not getting spins and how the label aint promoting him
right. He got fucked by a label not promoting him right then went out
and did it right himself, whereas you got cats like ghost who's the
dopest emcee in the world, but he just wants to drop his album, get
props and then go bitch in xxl about how hiphop sucks because the only
artists that care enough to fucking grind until people listen to their
album arent what he likes. There aint no such thing as a free lunch.
Basically what it comes down to is if you want good NYC hiphop on the
radio, the only thing you can do is go buy out the papoose and saigon
mixtapes at the spot until those guys get high profile record deals...
And the nyc cats need to stop thinking nyc is the be all end all of the
universe and take their hustle on the road and try moving some
independent units outside of the boroughs. It's hilarious watching how
the rap game works right now, and northeast cats bitching about how
southern rappers donnt talk about anything, when if they just fucking
listened to what cats were saying they might be able to get a real
record deal. 99% of southern cats talk about hustling. Maybe 20% do
trap music, the rest dont even mention drugs. Do the fucking math.
The biggest factor in all of it I'd say (starting with the southern
cats moving more units independently) is demographic trends, which
probably every single rapper in the game is too ignorant to think of.
Cali and the Northeast are not the centers of the population in america
anymore, they're losing people to the south. Look at the census,
states in the northeast are looking at losing seats in the house next
time they reapportion. You can't expect to sell units in areas that
are getting older and losing population, you're gonna have much better
odds in areas with population growth and large numbers of younger
people who listen to/buy music....
TJ Xenos
out in ages. Nobody's trying to put on some vet with 15 years in the
game and push them. Kids aint tryin to listen to some old dude
rapping. Thats why ghost and forty and shit dont sell records. To
young people "legend" means used to be good. Therefore whoevers new is
gonna get more push, and if you're so neophobic you should just be
happy you're not 5-10 years older, then you'd have come up hating
g-funk and NYC thug rap and stuck with golden age rappers that were
totally washed up by 95 as opposed to cats like ghost and az who can
still put out decent records.. (For what its worth I'll take Cham and
Fishscale over Warren G and the 18 letter)
Seriously, whats coming out of nyc right now that even holds a candle
to shit that is the same stylistically fom 10 years ago? I listened to
36 chambers last night and it killed most things Ive heard from the
northeast in the new millenium, and those dudes rhymed 8 fucking
syllables per verse and nothing else. Cats still rhyme like that and
the beats are junk now. That's why there's no interest in NYC. I
mean, when the only argument for playing nyc cats is "hiphop started in
nyc" and not that there's anything worth playing from nyc, it kinda
kills your whole argument. NYC is stuck in the past, which is why we
keep getting the same stale rappers pushed at us for the 87th time. Im
so fucking sick of busta rhymes. His sales have had a general downward
trend culminating in his last album being his worst selling. Why isnt
there a full Trife mixtape? Where's the trife album? The general
public already knows ghost and has established that not enough people
like him, but NYC keeps putting back on cats who've come in and had a
lotta run and a little success and expecting that all of a suddent the
5ht time around they're gonna be huge, instead of figuring out that
their time is passed and they need to try for success with somethign
new instead of perpetually backburnering the younger talent. The only
really NYC rapper to blow up thats old is cam ron and thats because he
came back totally reinvented with a new crew, new style, new label, new
everything, and the infusion of fresh blood has worked out extremely
well. Basically consistently going gold places you at the low end of
the top echelon of commercial rap and cats who occasionally trip fall
and bump into a gold selling record arent gonna get play because they
aint even in the same league.
.
Danger3210
TJ Xenos wrote:
> nesta wrote:
> > suntzu wrote:
> > >
> > > > But you also got to understand that the northeast INVENTED this
> > > > music... We started it...
> > >
> > > that has nothing to do with anything.
> >
> > of course it does. If you were gonna listen to rap back in the day,
> > where the fuck you think most of it came from? So this argument that
> > the South was "forced" to listen to the tri-state for 20 years is
> > nonsense. If they didn't listen to it, they wouldn't have been into
> > hip-hop at all.
>
> BULLSHIT. Rapalot has been putting out records for 20 years. Too
> $hort and Ice T have been rapping for 25 years. The West has been
> getting national play for about 12 years and the south for maybe 6.
> Now explain to me how from 86-2000 the south wasnt being forced to
> listen to NYC hiphop (and LA to some extent in the later portion of
> that) when they had their own artists?
>
Nesta pretty much made my point for me... Hip-hop started in NY so it
doesn't make much sense to complain about NY's dominance... I'm not
saying other coasts and sections havent been doing anything for an
extended period of time but still...
> Aslo, picking on Dem Franchise Boyz and D4L is like saying NYC hiphop
> sucks because of ja rule.
>
He was part of the problem... I actually hated NY hip-hop back in those
days (during the start of this decade, not as much as I hate it now but
still... radio/mainstream hip-hop IMO hasn't been good since 97... Just
my opinion... Biggie died, the Wu fell off, the Puff Daddy era began
(wasn't all bad but it got the ball rollin for the downfall), and
pretty soon after EVERY song had to be about how much money you got,
hoes you got, etc... Everybody had to act like they were a fuckin
billionaire and again the originality started to decline... The
downfall continued to Ja Rule where every single HAD to have an R&B
vibe to it...
And the Franchise Boyz and D4L are just a couple examples... Truth be
told I dont even know all of the Southern acts that I'm complaining
about by name... I just know the beats... I hear the beat for a second
and it just sounds atrocious... It's mostly silence with like a couple
sound effects thrown in (i.e. that Knuck if you buck song)... I hear it
and I'm like, "THIS is the shit people are feelin nowadays???"
> Also, the key reason why these southern acts (as well as dipset and
> g-unit) keep getting signed and pushed is they proved they can sell
> records without promotion and get deals off their street sales numbers.
>
> 50 got big label promotion because he had a huge street buzz. He had
> a huge street buzz because he hustled his ass off pushing mixtapes. He
> wasn't one of those cats who drops his album, does a couple shows, then
> bitches about not getting spins and how the label aint promoting him
> right. He got fucked by a label not promoting him right then went out
> and did it right himself, whereas you got cats like ghost who's the
> dopest emcee in the world, but he just wants to drop his album, get
> props and then go bitch in xxl about how hiphop sucks because the only
> artists that care enough to fucking grind until people listen to their
> album arent what he likes. There aint no such thing as a free lunch.
> Basically what it comes down to is if you want good NYC hiphop on the
> radio, the only thing you can do is go buy out the papoose and saigon
> mixtapes at the spot until those guys get high profile record deals...
You're right about Dipset and G-Unit getting big because of the
mixtapes and shit... In Ghostface's defense I think it's hard for an
already established artist to go the same route tho... Dipset and
G-Unit were new acts (Cam been in the game for a minute before but not
THAT long)... The mixtape shit works for new guys because word of mouth
spreads and if you're good enough and you do a LOT of mixtapes...
People talk and hear and say, "yo, you heard this new guy... shit is
crazy", etc... But do the same with Ghostface and most would just say,
"Ohhhh, that's just Ghostface... I know him already..." He's been out
since what 92-93... He's already considered an "old artist"... It's
hard for guys like that and AZ to get fresh mixtape buzz... No matter
how much they "grind"... I'm not saying it's impossible but it's
hard... Harder than you're "just do it" attitude you used in your last
paragraph...
And I'm not gonna say NY isn't responsible for their own downfall...
Truth be told, there really arent any new NY artists I'm feelin right
now... I dont like Papoose... Saigon is okay but I really only started
caring about him after he signed with Just Blaze... There are no new
guys out there that I can see "takin over the game" so to speak in
NY... (Tru Life is decent but that's pretty much it...) Papoose and
Saigon and guys like that aren't really doing anything different or
unique to make things any better... I'm not saying they're horrible but
they're not that good...
> And the nyc cats need to stop thinking nyc is the be all end all of the
> universe and take their hustle on the road and try moving some
> independent units outside of the boroughs. It's hilarious watching how
> the rap game works right now, and northeast cats bitching about how
> southern rappers donnt talk about anything, when if they just fucking
> listened to what cats were saying they might be able to get a real
> record deal. 99% of southern cats talk about hustling. Maybe 20% do
> trap music, the rest dont even mention drugs. Do the fucking math.
>
Hard to do nowadays... Especially where everything HAS to have that
South sound to it... If the Wu came out right now and released Protect
Ya Neck, it probably wouldn't even get played... Sure, it would
probably be huge in the underground but that's it...
And again I'm not saying NY has to dominate... I just would like more
of a balance with different types of sounds and flavors a la the 90s...
> The biggest factor in all of it I'd say (starting with the southern
> cats moving more units independently) is demographic trends, which
> probably every single rapper in the game is too ignorant to think of.
> Cali and the Northeast are not the centers of the population in america
> anymore, they're losing people to the south. Look at the census,
> states in the northeast are looking at losing seats in the house next
> time they reapportion. You can't expect to sell units in areas that
> are getting older and losing population, you're gonna have much better
> odds in areas with population growth and large numbers of younger
> people who listen to/buy music....
So you're saying NY artists should just emulate Southern hip-hop and
that's exactly what I'm complaining about...
Still tho, good response and your points are well taken... Most people
here just come back with a one sentence statement saying "OHHHH LISTEN
TO THE UNDERGROUND... STOP COMPLAINING, etc..."
STRATEGY
Danger3210 wrote:
> But you also got to understand that the northeast INVENTED this
> music... We started it...
Ironic statement, seeing how a lot of the stuff you're pining for
(Biggie,Mobb) were/are HEAVILY influenced by west coast gangsta rap.
STRATEGY
Grand NATTY IU
HIP HOP. I was raised in NY and have a lot of respect for the origins
of the music... that doesn't make it the sacred homebase of rap.
Honestly, if you listen to Bay Area and Southern rap, you'll find that
the artists in these locales have a lot of knowledge of the old
school... and always pay homage to its roots. There are always tons of
throwback samples and lines thrown in from the most obscure old track.
That said, the South (and most other cities aside from NY and L.A.)
have been majorly influenced by the Bay and the Mob scene... as well
asL.L.A. gangsta. This was always kind of a direct statement to the
feeling that the East Coast had it locked... older acts jocked an East
Coast sound before the Cali rennaissance, since then most other coasts
are happy to make music they like and music to be bumped in their
cities. Houston and San Fran/Oakland, for example, saturate their
rhymes with local slang and lots of lines that are geographically
specific. It's not neccessarily a 'fuck you' to the East Coast, but
more a declaration that they make music "for they folk, by they folks"
(to paraphrase Money B.) If the nation cathches on some 20 years later
- so be it... I'm pretty sure by the way the underground is still
bubbling, that they won't change once they are out of the BET
spotlight.
NY has constantly been trying to reinvent themselves and get back in
the game for mainstream recognition. I don't like underground East
Coast out now (those Killah Priest mixtapes, the 8-Off stuff... it's
whiny and tepid and sounds very 1995 to me.) I don't like mainstream
NY (aside from some of the (southern influenced) Dipset beats, I just
don't find it listenable.)
Texas - is gritty, but laid back. Definitely a leaned out sound
ATL - the majority of it (including mainstream stalwarts like Jazzy
Pha/TI/Backwudz etc...) is heavily steeped in funk. I've always liked
funk... so it's a given I'd like it.
Memphis - well... I don't know if I ever want to go to the meaner
streets of Memphis... it sounds like a dark, ominous, demonic place.
Perfectly compressed and quantized, but evil and seductive!
For the most part, that's where the majority of the music I listen to
lately comes from... and those are spotter's reasons why.
DAF
suntzu
> TJ Xenos wrote:
>> nesta wrote:
>>> suntzu wrote:
>>>>> But you also got to understand that the northeast INVENTED this
>>>>> music... We started it...
>>>> that has nothing to do with anything.
>>> of course it does. If you were gonna listen to rap back in the day,
>>> where the fuck you think most of it came from? So this argument that
>>> the South was "forced" to listen to the tri-state for 20 years is
>>> nonsense. If they didn't listen to it, they wouldn't have been into
>>> hip-hop at all.
>> BULLSHIT. Rapalot has been putting out records for 20 years. Too
>> $hort and Ice T have been rapping for 25 years. The West has been
>> getting national play for about 12 years and the south for maybe 6.
>> Now explain to me how from 86-2000 the south wasnt being forced to
>> listen to NYC hiphop (and LA to some extent in the later portion of
>> that) when they had their own artists?
>>
>
> Nesta pretty much made my point for me... Hip-hop started in NY so it
> doesn't make much sense to complain about NY's dominance... I'm not
> saying other coasts and sections havent been doing anything for an
> extended period of time but still...
are you really claiming that because hip-hop started in NY, that there
must always be a certain amount of NY hip-hop getting mainstream play,
regardless of the quality of the music? if so, that doesn't make any
goddamn sense.
i understand that hip-hop started in NY. no one's saying forget it's
origin. but the fact that it started in NY is no sort of argument on
its own that NY hip-hop should get airplay.
besides, no one's complaining about NY's dominance. not even you, it
seems like this thread is mostly you complaining about NY's lack of
dominance, and everyone (you included) complaining about the mediocre
quality of its recent output.
fishscale is my favorite album of the year. it's been a slow year, but
that album is, without qualification, some really fucking dope music.
it stacks up well to much of the wu's best output. i agree that it
sucks that it's not getting radio play other than "back like that" (and
that's not even getting really heavy rotation, it seems). but what else
is there out of NY that's anywhere near that level right now? i heard
one of the new mobb deep tracks that everyone seems to actually like,
and all it did was make me want to listen to old mobb deep. i'd love it
if tracks like "shakey dog" and "beauty jackson" got airplay, but that's
just not what most people are into, so that's why i do things like spend
time on the internet reading about music. because i can't expect the
radio to feed me stuff i'll like.
it seems like all you're doing is complaining that the mainstream's
tastes no longer line up with yours. well, i think that's gonna be the
case for anyone who bases their music taste on factors other than what
the mainstream likes. the mainstream always has been (and always will
be) incredibly flighty. there's no good reason to assume that it'll
keep catering to you for the rest of your life.
> Still tho, good response and your points are well taken... Most people
> here just come back with a one sentence statement saying "OHHHH LISTEN
> TO THE UNDERGROUND... STOP COMPLAINING, etc..."
>
sort of with good reason tho... partly because what you're looking for
(east coast hip-hop on the level of the best stuff coming out in the
early to mid 90s) is in short supply, and partly because it's kind of
unrealistic to expect the mainstream to have any sort of loyalty to a
given style. i'm not saying that second part is right... i really hate
how promotion and all that works in the music industry, but there's only
so much you can bitch about that. on the flipside, you do seem to
suggest the mainstream be blindly loyal to NYC hip-hop because that's
where hip-hop came from, but that'd be just as bad as the fickleness and
trend-hopping that goes on.
your best point so far is that radio is at it's best when it's playing
quality music regardless of that music's geographical origin. i think
we'd all agree with that.
TJ Xenos
Danger3210 wrote:
> TJ Xenos wrote:
> > $hort and Ice T have been rapping for 25 years. The West has been
> > getting national play for about 12 years and the south for maybe 6.
> > Now explain to me how from 86-2000 the south wasnt being forced to
> > listen to NYC hiphop (and LA to some extent in the later portion of
> > that) when they had their own artists?
> >
>
> Nesta pretty much made my point for me... Hip-hop started in NY so it
> doesn't make much sense to complain about NY's dominance... I'm not
> saying other coasts and sections havent been doing anything for an
> extended period of time but still...
Im saying they were ignored because new york had control. Then new
york fell the fuck off, and the south has a stranglehold and new york
cant catch a break. Thats the parelell I'm making. If you held other
people down when you were on top you cant bitch about being held down
by them when they're on top.
>
> > Aslo, picking on Dem Franchise Boyz and D4L is like saying NYC hiphop
> > sucks because of ja rule.
> >
>
> He was part of the problem... I actually hated NY hip-hop back in those
> days (during the start of this decade, not as much as I hate it now but
> still... radio/mainstream hip-hop IMO hasn't been good since 97... Just
> my opinion... Biggie died, the Wu fell off, the Puff Daddy era began
> (wasn't all bad but it got the ball rollin for the downfall), and
> pretty soon after EVERY song had to be about how much money you got,
> hoes you got, etc... Everybody had to act like they were a fuckin
> billionaire and again the originality started to decline... The
> downfall continued to Ja Rule where every single HAD to have an R&B
> vibe to it...
I dont give a fuck what you're rapping about. In the 90s cats were
fakin like they were movin coke, now they're fakin like they're already
rich. Whatever, it has zero effect on how the mucis sounds. The ja
rule r&b shit is like this snap music trash, shit music for bitches.
My point is comparing d4l and chamillionaire or lil wayne is like
comparing ja rule and jigga.
>
> And the Franchise Boyz and D4L are just a couple examples... Truth be
> told I dont even know all of the Southern acts that I'm complaining
> about by name... I just know the beats... I hear the beat for a second
> and it just sounds atrocious... It's mostly silence with like a couple
> sound effects thrown in (i.e. that Knuck if you buck song)... I hear it
> and I'm like, "THIS is the shit people are feelin nowadays???"
I dont know the song you're talking about but based on the description
it seems like you're harping on the minimalist bass beats like
Collipark. That's one style that comes out of one region. Thats like
bitching that all hiphop sucks because of sped up soul samples.
>
> > Also, the key reason why these southern acts (as well as dipset and
> > g-unit) keep getting signed and pushed is they proved they can sell
> > records without promotion and get deals off their street sales numbers.
> >
> > 50 got big label promotion because he had a huge street buzz. He had
> > a huge street buzz because he hustled his ass off pushing mixtapes. He
> > wasn't one of those cats who drops his album, does a couple shows, then
> > bitches about not getting spins and how the label aint promoting him
> > right. He got fucked by a label not promoting him right then went out
> > and did it right himself, whereas you got cats like ghost who's the
> > dopest emcee in the world, but he just wants to drop his album, get
> > props and then go bitch in xxl about how hiphop sucks because the only
> > artists that care enough to fucking grind until people listen to their
> > album arent what he likes. There aint no such thing as a free lunch.
> > Basically what it comes down to is if you want good NYC hiphop on the
> > radio, the only thing you can do is go buy out the papoose and saigon
> > mixtapes at the spot until those guys get high profile record deals...
>
> You're right about Dipset and G-Unit getting big because of the
> mixtapes and shit... In Ghostface's defense I think it's hard for an
> already established artist to go the same route tho... Dipset and
> G-Unit were new acts (Cam been in the game for a minute before but not
> THAT long)...
Cam had put out 2 lps and been around for like 6 years before dipset
popped off. Ghost has had 2 major label deals and put out 5 records,
atleast 3 of which have had lead singles that got huge pushes and still
can't sell records. How the fuck you gonna blame the promotion? It
comes down to the fact that its ghosts fault he aint connectin with
listeners.
>The mixtape shit works for new guys because word of mouth
> spreads and if you're good enough and you do a LOT of mixtapes...
> People talk and hear and say, "yo, you heard this new guy... shit is
> crazy", etc... But do the same with Ghostface and most would just say,
> "Ohhhh, that's just Ghostface... I know him already..." He's been out
> since what 92-93... He's already considered an "old artist"... It's
> hard for guys like that and AZ to get fresh mixtape buzz...
AZ completely resurrected his career with the SOSA mixtape, returning
from complete oblivion to decently respectable mid tier status. Not to
mention, none of these older artists have even MADE THE ATTEMPT at
trying to get back on via flooding the streets with tapes.
> No matter
> how much they "grind"... I'm not saying it's impossible but it's
> hard... Harder than you're "just do it" attitude you used in your last
> paragraph...
Obviously its harder than just sitting there and hoping that your radio
single can convince cats to spend 15 bucks on your album. It's
probably an easier way of making money since you can charge less (more
people will be willing to buy it) and take a bigger cut. Not to
mention moving 100k independently might get you a deal, where moving
250 on a major is costing you your deal.
>
> And I'm not gonna say NY isn't responsible for their own downfall...
> Truth be told, there really arent any new NY artists I'm feelin right
> now... I dont like Papoose... Saigon is okay but I really only started
> caring about him after he signed with Just Blaze... There are no new
> guys out there that I can see "takin over the game" so to speak in
> NY... (Tru Life is decent but that's pretty much it...) Papoose and
> Saigon and guys like that aren't really doing anything different or
> unique to make things any better... I'm not saying they're horrible but
> they're not that good...
Thats the thing I'm getting at, there's absofuckinglutely nothing in
NYC worth listening to, so I dont understand the bitching about new
york not getting play. Maybe if someone put out something decent it
would happen. Im kinda hoping for jay to come back, because I think
that with him, nas and ghost def jam could light some kinda fire in
NYC. Jay got the hottest beatsmiths in the northeast in his camp but
he dont got many emcees with the capacity to take things over, other
than Nas and Ghost, who have both fallen off sales wise already. Jay
on the other hand went out on top and could come back with a bit enough
buzz that it could rub off on them.
>
> > And the nyc cats need to stop thinking nyc is the be all end all of the
> > universe and take their hustle on the road and try moving some
> > independent units outside of the boroughs. It's hilarious watching how
> > the rap game works right now, and northeast cats bitching about how
> > southern rappers donnt talk about anything, when if they just fucking
> > listened to what cats were saying they might be able to get a real
> > record deal. 99% of southern cats talk about hustling. Maybe 20% do
> > trap music, the rest dont even mention drugs. Do the fucking math.
> >
>
> Hard to do nowadays... Especially where everything HAS to have that
> South sound to it... If the Wu came out right now and released Protect
> Ya Neck, it probably wouldn't even get played... Sure, it would
> probably be huge in the underground but that's it...
It doenst have to have the south sound, its just that theres nothing
good coming out with an east coast soudn. Even the west is getting
more shine right now. The northeast forgot about the streets back in
96 except when they drop it in their rhymes. Nobody is even putting in
the work it seems like except a couple of cats (dipset, g-unit,
papoose). You gotta put your shit out in the streets and let it bubble
up. The game is way too fucking crowded to just expect to get a deal
and get your shit promoted right to the right people. 50 got signed
and blew up off a mixtape track that was so hot it crossed over.
>
> And again I'm not saying NY has to dominate... I just would like more
> of a balance with different types of sounds and flavors a la the 90s...
The problem is new york sucks and the west coast basically gave up on
majors and went indy 5 years ago so there's nothing to play except E-40
and the south.
>
> > The biggest factor in all of it I'd say (starting with the southern
> > cats moving more units independently) is demographic trends, which
> > probably every single rapper in the game is too ignorant to think of.
> > Cali and the Northeast are not the centers of the population in america
> > anymore, they're losing people to the south. Look at the census,
> > states in the northeast are looking at losing seats in the house next
> > time they reapportion. You can't expect to sell units in areas that
> > are getting older and losing population, you're gonna have much better
> > odds in areas with population growth and large numbers of younger
> > people who listen to/buy music....
>
> So you're saying NY artists should just emulate Southern hip-hop and
> that's exactly what I'm complaining about...
No, I'm saying you cant bitch when you market to a smaller niche and
dont attain as much sales. If you make music on some "NY is the center
of the world and only NYC cats know anything about hiphop" and then no
one outside new york buys your record, and new york proportionally isnt
nearly as big as it was 10 years ago, its just common sense.
Danger3210
TJ Xenos wrote:
> Danger3210 wrote:
> > TJ Xenos wrote:
> > > BULLSHIT. Rapalot has been putting out records for 20 years. Too
> > > $hort and Ice T have been rapping for 25 years. The West has been
> > > getting national play for about 12 years and the south for maybe 6.
> > > Now explain to me how from 86-2000 the south wasnt being forced to
> > > listen to NYC hiphop (and LA to some extent in the later portion of
> > > that) when they had their own artists?
> > >
> >
> > Nesta pretty much made my point for me... Hip-hop started in NY so it
> > doesn't make much sense to complain about NY's dominance... I'm not
> > saying other coasts and sections havent been doing anything for an
> > extended period of time but still...
>
> Im saying they were ignored because new york had control. Then new
> york fell the fuck off, and the south has a stranglehold and new york
> cant catch a break. Thats the parelell I'm making. If you held other
> people down when you were on top you cant bitch about being held down
> by them when they're on top.
>
I can bitch about it cause I dont like the music... Period... People
seem to think I am calling for NY to dominate JUST BECAUSE and they're
missing the point here... It's not that... Point is I dont like pretty
much EVERYTHING that's on the radio and EVERYTHING is from the South...
There's no combination of different sounds or coasts... And even still,
when the West had it locked during the early Dre/Snoop/G-Funk Era, I
wasn't making these same complaints because I LIKED the music...
Bottom line, I don't like the majority of the Southern songs I hear on
the radio... Period...
> >
> > > Aslo, picking on Dem Franchise Boyz and D4L is like saying NYC hiphop
> > > sucks because of ja rule.
> > >
> >
> > He was part of the problem... I actually hated NY hip-hop back in those
> > days (during the start of this decade, not as much as I hate it now but
> > still... radio/mainstream hip-hop IMO hasn't been good since 97... Just
> > my opinion... Biggie died, the Wu fell off, the Puff Daddy era began
> > (wasn't all bad but it got the ball rollin for the downfall), and
> > pretty soon after EVERY song had to be about how much money you got,
> > hoes you got, etc... Everybody had to act like they were a fuckin
> > billionaire and again the originality started to decline... The
> > downfall continued to Ja Rule where every single HAD to have an R&B
> > vibe to it...
>
> I dont give a fuck what you're rapping about. In the 90s cats were
> fakin like they were movin coke, now they're fakin like they're already
> rich. Whatever, it has zero effect on how the mucis sounds.
I dont like the production either... Basically I dont like ANYTHING
about the songs that get most of the airplay nowadays... Lyrics, Beats,
what have you...
> The ja
> rule r&b shit is like this snap music trash, shit music for bitches.
> My point is comparing d4l and chamillionaire or lil wayne is like
> comparing ja rule and jigga.
>
I wasnt comparing them... I was just stating I dont like them (and they
are the ones that are getting the airplay)... Wayne is aight... I never
was a huge fan of his and I really dont think I ever listened to any of
his albums straight throughout but I've liked songs of his from the
past... I dont like Chamillionaire at all (his voice annoys me... And
MANNNN, I just cant stand that Ridin Dirty song...)
> >
> > And the Franchise Boyz and D4L are just a couple examples... Truth be
> > told I dont even know all of the Southern acts that I'm complaining
> > about by name... I just know the beats... I hear the beat for a second
> > and it just sounds atrocious... It's mostly silence with like a couple
> > sound effects thrown in (i.e. that Knuck if you buck song)... I hear it
> > and I'm like, "THIS is the shit people are feelin nowadays???"
>
> I dont know the song you're talking about but based on the description
> it seems like you're harping on the minimalist bass beats like
> Collipark. That's one style that comes out of one region. Thats like
> bitching that all hiphop sucks because of sped up soul samples.
>
It seems like thats all I hear on the radio... I dont know who is
behind these beats but truth be told there are few producers nowadays
that I feel (it's pretty much Just Blaze, Alchemist, Kanye, Heatmakers,
Swizz, and Green Lantern)...
What Ghostface single got a huge (keyword : HUGE) push besides Chez
Chez La Ghost???
Granted tho, Ghostface was probably always a little TOO different to be
truly mainstream and maybe thats for the best... Still, it's ALL about
how you're promoted... (In my opinion, it's 90% promotion and 10%
talent/quality of songs...) 50 Cent sold X amount of records just
because we were constantly bombarded with the fact that he was shot
nine times and survived... That's ALL the media talked about when his
first album dropped... We were sold on this image that he was this
superthug character and the masses bought it... There were other
factors too (his affiliation with Em and Dre) and I'm not saying it
didn't START with him busting his ass on the mixtapes but that isn't
the ONLY reason he blew up...
> >The mixtape shit works for new guys because word of mouth
> > spreads and if you're good enough and you do a LOT of mixtapes...
> > People talk and hear and say, "yo, you heard this new guy... shit is
> > crazy", etc... But do the same with Ghostface and most would just say,
> > "Ohhhh, that's just Ghostface... I know him already..." He's been out
> > since what 92-93... He's already considered an "old artist"... It's
> > hard for guys like that and AZ to get fresh mixtape buzz...
>
> AZ completely resurrected his career with the SOSA mixtape, returning
> from complete oblivion to decently respectable mid tier status. Not to
> mention, none of these older artists have even MADE THE ATTEMPT at
> trying to get back on via flooding the streets with tapes.
>
Still tho, AZ never gets radio rotation... Never... And Mobb Deep and
the LOX are ALWAYS on the mixtape grind... ESPECIALLY the LOX...
> >
> > And I'm not gonna say NY isn't responsible for their own downfall...
> > Truth be told, there really arent any new NY artists I'm feelin right
> > now... I dont like Papoose... Saigon is okay but I really only started
> > caring about him after he signed with Just Blaze... There are no new
> > guys out there that I can see "takin over the game" so to speak in
> > NY... (Tru Life is decent but that's pretty much it...) Papoose and
> > Saigon and guys like that aren't really doing anything different or
> > unique to make things any better... I'm not saying they're horrible but
> > they're not that good...
>
> Thats the thing I'm getting at, there's absofuckinglutely nothing in
> NYC worth listening to, so I dont understand the bitching about new
> york not getting play. Maybe if someone put out something decent it
> would happen. Im kinda hoping for jay to come back, because I think
> that with him, nas and ghost def jam could light some kinda fire in
> NYC. Jay got the hottest beatsmiths in the northeast in his camp but
> he dont got many emcees with the capacity to take things over, other
> than Nas and Ghost, who have both fallen off sales wise already. Jay
> on the other hand went out on top and could come back with a bit enough
> buzz that it could rub off on them.
>
Yeah, we'll see what happens... I find it hard to believe tho there are
NO underground guys in NY that are talented enough to be played on the
radio... Real hard to believe... But like I said before, the young NY
mixtape guys that I hear consistently are average at best...
Hopefully Jay and Nas' new respective albums will drop before the end
of the year and that will add some balance to the game... Cause that's
pretty much my main complaint here... There needs to be more balance...
TJ Xenos
The point is you werent bitchign about how there was no balance and no
southern shit getting played from 86-2000 so it comes across as
disingenuous to say you're not on some NYC jocking shit, you just want
balance.
> > The ja
> > rule r&b shit is like this snap music trash, shit music for bitches.
> > My point is comparing d4l and chamillionaire or lil wayne is like
> > comparing ja rule and jigga.
> >
>
> I wasnt comparing them... I was just stating I dont like them (and they
> are the ones that are getting the airplay)... Wayne is aight... I never
> was a huge fan of his and I really dont think I ever listened to any of
> his albums straight throughout but I've liked songs of his from the
> past... I dont like Chamillionaire at all (his voice annoys me... And
> MANNNN, I just cant stand that Ridin Dirty song...)
That song is mad played out. It was probably one of the first songs on
that chamil record I got sick of. Back in fucking november or
december. It blows my mind to hear that shit on northeast radio NOW.
Muthafuckas might as well still be playing ja rule and ashanti.
> It seems like thats all I hear on the radio... I dont know who is
> behind these beats but truth be told there are few producers nowadays
> that I feel (it's pretty much Just Blaze, Alchemist, Kanye, Heatmakers,
> Swizz, and Green Lantern)...
What im saying is thats a very small percentage of whats out there
right now. Its like when primo was hot in 97/98 ish and every cat had
one primo beat and that was the joint they put out there. Its the same
way with the colli park sparse/bass beats right now down south. It's
one beat on each record, but its whats hot, so thats what the single
is....
> > Cam had put out 2 lps and been around for like 6 years before dipset
> > popped off. Ghost has had 2 major label deals and put out 5 records,
> > atleast 3 of which have had lead singles that got huge pushes and still
> > can't sell records. How the fuck you gonna blame the promotion? It
> > comes down to the fact that its ghosts fault he aint connectin with
> > listeners.
> >
>
> What Ghostface single got a huge (keyword : HUGE) push besides Chez
> Chez La Ghost???
The donell jones track from BPW was everywhere for 6 months before the
record dropped. Duke still sold 300k. Tush with missy was all over
the place. 250K sold. And yet, dude still gets a push on his new
single. I mean, dude has a poor fucking track record when it comes to
sales, but his shit keeps getting pushed. I mean, the fact that you
hear any ghostface anywehre other than your crib shows you how new york
is still looking out for its own instead of just following the money.
>
> Granted tho, Ghostface was probably always a little TOO different to be
> truly mainstream and maybe thats for the best... Still, it's ALL about
> how you're promoted... (In my opinion, it's 90% promotion and 10%
> talent/quality of songs...) 50 Cent sold X amount of records just
> because we were constantly bombarded with the fact that he was shot
> nine times and survived...
Dude was getting tons and tons of spins and moving more mixtapes than
anyone could fathom off of Wanksta before Em and Dre even signed him
though. Fuck promotion that dude blew up off the hottest song in the
world. 50 was able to move into bs like films and tv because of the
stupid story, but it didnt sell a helluva lot of records because dude
was doing big numbers before he started getting media coverage.
>That's ALL the media talked about when his
> first album dropped... We were sold on this image that he was this
> superthug character and the masses bought it... There were other
> factors too (his affiliation with Em and Dre) and I'm not saying it
> didn't START with him busting his ass on the mixtapes but that isn't
> the ONLY reason he blew up...
He had the hottest song in the country without a record deal. How the
fuck the media playing up the thug angle blow him up? If anything the
fact that ja rule was on his last 30 seconds of his 15 minutes of fame,
and 50 was the cat who came out and came after him got him a push. I
mean, 50 didnt start popping up everywhere and having everyone
(including the mainstream media) talking about his album until right
before it dropped and once it had dropped. Dude came out 4x Plat.
>
> > >The mixtape shit works for new guys because word of mouth
> > > spreads and if you're good enough and you do a LOT of mixtapes...
> > > People talk and hear and say, "yo, you heard this new guy... shit is
> > > crazy", etc... But do the same with Ghostface and most would just say,
> > > "Ohhhh, that's just Ghostface... I know him already..." He's been out
> > > since what 92-93... He's already considered an "old artist"... It's
> > > hard for guys like that and AZ to get fresh mixtape buzz...
> >
> > AZ completely resurrected his career with the SOSA mixtape, returning
> > from complete oblivion to decently respectable mid tier status. Not to
> > mention, none of these older artists have even MADE THE ATTEMPT at
> > trying to get back on via flooding the streets with tapes.
> >
>
> Still tho, AZ never gets radio rotation... Never... And Mobb Deep and
> the LOX are ALWAYS on the mixtape grind... ESPECIALLY the LOX...
Word is bond, the styles record would have blown up d-block, but the
50/Jada beef and the ensuing politricks has killed their buzz. Instead
of riding with the money and playing both sides for maximum profit the
suits at interscope caved to 50s ego. And AZ has never sold shit.
According to RIAA.com the Sugar Hill single went gold and the Doe or
Die album didnt even make that. AZ is officially a commercial bust,
but he definitely displayed the right ethic with the SOSA joint,
resurrecting himself from has been to underground "legend" (as all
washed up rappers who make respectable comebacks after falling off
commercially are hailed ;)
>
> Yeah, we'll see what happens... I find it hard to believe tho there are
> NO underground guys in NY that are talented enough to be played on the
> radio... Real hard to believe... But like I said before, the young NY
> mixtape guys that I hear consistently are average at best...
If people in NYC were listening to enough NY cats and demanding to hear
them, they'd get played. Thats how the south blew up, and how LA blew
up in the 90s.
>
> Hopefully Jay and Nas' new respective albums will drop before the end
> of the year and that will add some balance to the game... Cause that's
> pretty much my main complaint here... There needs to be more balance...
I think the east coast just needs to not suck. I think if he hadnt
gotten locked up Beanie might have been able to do something, he's got
the right kind of rhyme scheme and flow, but he couldnt capitalize off
jay retiring and take the crown due to his incarceration/legal
problems. Realistically speaking, it's basically all byrdgang all the
time, and even their shit isnt moving HUGE units, they just know how to
create a buzz. You move a moderate amount of units, you talk about how
much your moving to bring attention to it, so people pay attention and
take you seriously as a commercially viable entity, then you parlay
their faith into actual promotions. Suits are too fucking cynical
when it comes to money to sign some dude whos on some "im the most
technical sick rapper". You can be the same dude and promote yourself
as the hottest dude who's moving so many units in the streets and they
might actually pay attention to that. I read interviews with cats like
saigon talking about how they're bringing it back and how their rhyming
is, but they aint got no records no one can go to the store and buy,
and they dont even make it seem like they are about to drop big and
you're gonna be able to. Cats from the south get in an interview and
they're on some "i moved 50k in texas, i got an offer from universal,
my shit will be everywhere this summer cop it!!!". If new york
rappers promoted themselves more, they might find more poeple willing
to get behind them, but they all come across like theyre too
underground to talk abotu selling units, which gets construed as a lack
of faith in their ability to do so, and aint no record company looking
to throw money behind an artist who thinks their shit will sell 500
copies because "its too advanced for hiphop listeners"
Danger3210
Let me rephrase... I actually just want GOOD music... And to me the
shit I'm hearing on the radio is garbage... It would be nice to see
more of a balance tho... I dont see why EVERYTHING has to be from the
South... It's just too much... Hopefully, the market will get
oversaturated and it'll get played out quick... At least in NY and the
East coast...
But in the 90s there was much more balance... Sure, it was pretty much
JUST East and West but there was balance... Different sounds, different
styles, different coasts... Now everything sounds the same...
And again I say, I dont see how anyone can look at hip-hop (mainstream)
right now and tell me this is a good time for hip-hop cause that's
straight up bullshit...
> > > The ja
> > > rule r&b shit is like this snap music trash, shit music for bitches.
> > > My point is comparing d4l and chamillionaire or lil wayne is like
> > > comparing ja rule and jigga.
> > >
> >
> > I wasnt comparing them... I was just stating I dont like them (and they
> > are the ones that are getting the airplay)... Wayne is aight... I never
> > was a huge fan of his and I really dont think I ever listened to any of
> > his albums straight throughout but I've liked songs of his from the
> > past... I dont like Chamillionaire at all (his voice annoys me... And
> > MANNNN, I just cant stand that Ridin Dirty song...)
>
> That song is mad played out. It was probably one of the first songs on
> that chamil record I got sick of. Back in fucking november or
> december. It blows my mind to hear that shit on northeast radio NOW.
> Muthafuckas might as well still be playing ja rule and ashanti.
>
Again, I'm complaining about what is getting airtime and that's one of
the songs thats wack as hell that gets a LOT of play on radio and TV...
I dont even listen to the radio but passing thru stores and hearing
other people play the box that song is ALWAYS on...
> > It seems like thats all I hear on the radio... I dont know who is
> > behind these beats but truth be told there are few producers nowadays
> > that I feel (it's pretty much Just Blaze, Alchemist, Kanye, Heatmakers,
> > Swizz, and Green Lantern)...
>
> What im saying is thats a very small percentage of whats out there
> right now. Its like when primo was hot in 97/98 ish and every cat had
> one primo beat and that was the joint they put out there. Its the same
> way with the colli park sparse/bass beats right now down south. It's
> one beat on each record, but its whats hot, so thats what the single
> is....
>
Still, the shit is wack... I can't say it any clearer...
> > > Cam had put out 2 lps and been around for like 6 years before dipset
> > > popped off. Ghost has had 2 major label deals and put out 5 records,
> > > atleast 3 of which have had lead singles that got huge pushes and still
> > > can't sell records. How the fuck you gonna blame the promotion? It
> > > comes down to the fact that its ghosts fault he aint connectin with
> > > listeners.
> > >
> >
> > What Ghostface single got a huge (keyword : HUGE) push besides Chez
> > Chez La Ghost???
>
> The donell jones track from BPW was everywhere for 6 months before the
> record dropped. Duke still sold 300k.
You mean Carl Thomas... And yes that song got a good push but Ghost
never got a 2nd single on BPW... You really need more than one big
single to sell a lot of records... (And if I remember correctly BPW was
selling a lot when it first dropped... I think Ghost even beat Michael
Jackson the first couple weeks which is big for a guy like Ghost...) I
think he was getting to the end of his contract with Sony and they
didnt promote (there's the magic word) BPW enough...
> Tush with missy was all over
> the place. 250K sold.
Tush was a horrible single pretty much JUST for the inclusion of
Missy... It didnt sell well with oldschool GFK fans and newer fans
wouldn't buy it either... And Tush didnt get THAT many spins on TV or
radio...
> And yet, dude still gets a push on his new
> single. I mean, dude has a poor fucking track record when it comes to
> sales, but his shit keeps getting pushed. I mean, the fact that you
> hear any ghostface anywehre other than your crib shows you how new york
> is still looking out for its own instead of just following the money.
>
No it's not... The reason why Ghost gets any spins is because HE'S A
GOOD ARTIST and he's been consistent... And his shit doesn't get pushed
as much as it should... He's more talented than the amount of promotion
he gets, PERIOD... Ghostface kills Chamillionaire or any of those
Southern cats getting all the airtime now... But to each his own...
>
> >
> > Granted tho, Ghostface was probably always a little TOO different to be
> > truly mainstream and maybe thats for the best... Still, it's ALL about
> > how you're promoted... (In my opinion, it's 90% promotion and 10%
> > talent/quality of songs...) 50 Cent sold X amount of records just
> > because we were constantly bombarded with the fact that he was shot
> > nine times and survived...
>
> Dude was getting tons and tons of spins and moving more mixtapes than
> anyone could fathom off of Wanksta before Em and Dre even signed him
> though. Fuck promotion that dude blew up off the hottest song in the
> world. 50 was able to move into bs like films and tv because of the
> stupid story, but it didnt sell a helluva lot of records because dude
> was doing big numbers before he started getting media coverage.
>
We're talkin about two different things here... You're talkin about 50
blowing up to the hardcore hip-hop fan... I'm talkin about 50 reaching
the mainstream and that only happened AFTER he signed to Aftermath...
Sure, the mixtape work got his foot in the door but again 50 would NOT
be this huge without Dre and Em backing him... He didnt get the MTV-TRL
audience until after that... He didnt have the white kids in the
suburbs bumpin his shit until after that... Also, I'm not saying 50
didnt take the ball and run with it... "In The Club" was a home run and
just a perfect single for him but again if it wasnt for Em and (REALLY)
Dre, he wouldnt have become THIS big... Again, it's all about promotion
and who is backing you... Look at the Game... Is he REALLY that great
of a rapper??? No but he had the right promotion...
> >That's ALL the media talked about when his
> > first album dropped... We were sold on this image that he was this
> > superthug character and the masses bought it... There were other
> > factors too (his affiliation with Em and Dre) and I'm not saying it
> > didn't START with him busting his ass on the mixtapes but that isn't
> > the ONLY reason he blew up...
>
> He had the hottest song in the country without a record deal. How the
> fuck the media playing up the thug angle blow him up? If anything the
> fact that ja rule was on his last 30 seconds of his 15 minutes of fame,
> and 50 was the cat who came out and came after him got him a push. I
> mean, 50 didnt start popping up everywhere and having everyone
> (including the mainstream media) talking about his album until right
> before it dropped and once it had dropped. Dude came out 4x Plat.
>
They started talking about him as SOON as he signed with
Shady/Aftermath... You think that was a coincidence??? You dont think
the label paid these news outlets to advertise (I mean) REPORT news
stories about him??? He only started to get the mainstream attention
until after he signed with Aftermath...
> >
> > > >The mixtape shit works for new guys because word of mouth
> > > > spreads and if you're good enough and you do a LOT of mixtapes...
> > > > People talk and hear and say, "yo, you heard this new guy... shit is
> > > > crazy", etc... But do the same with Ghostface and most would just say,
> > > > "Ohhhh, that's just Ghostface... I know him already..." He's been out
> > > > since what 92-93... He's already considered an "old artist"... It's
> > > > hard for guys like that and AZ to get fresh mixtape buzz...
> > >
> > > AZ completely resurrected his career with the SOSA mixtape, returning
> > > from complete oblivion to decently respectable mid tier status. Not to
> > > mention, none of these older artists have even MADE THE ATTEMPT at
> > > trying to get back on via flooding the streets with tapes.
> > >
> >
> > Still tho, AZ never gets radio rotation... Never... And Mobb Deep and
> > the LOX are ALWAYS on the mixtape grind... ESPECIALLY the LOX...
>
> Word is bond, the styles record would have blown up d-block, but the
> 50/Jada beef and the ensuing politricks has killed their buzz. Instead
> of riding with the money and playing both sides for maximum profit the
> suits at interscope caved to 50s ego.
Again, promotion is everything... Just doing the mixtape grind doesn't
mean you're gonna make it... The LOX are KEY examples of that...
> And AZ has never sold shit.
> According to RIAA.com the Sugar Hill single went gold and the Doe or
> Die album didnt even make that. AZ is officially a commercial bust,
> but he definitely displayed the right ethic with the SOSA joint,
> resurrecting himself from has been to underground "legend" (as all
> washed up rappers who make respectable comebacks after falling off
> commercially are hailed ;)
>
You can't tell me if AZ didnt have the right people backin him he
wouldn't have been a bigger star...
> >
> > Yeah, we'll see what happens... I find it hard to believe tho there are
> > NO underground guys in NY that are talented enough to be played on the
> > radio... Real hard to believe... But like I said before, the young NY
> > mixtape guys that I hear consistently are average at best...
>
> If people in NYC were listening to enough NY cats and demanding to hear
> them, they'd get played. Thats how the south blew up, and how LA blew
> up in the 90s.
>
Kids nowadays dont know what the hell is good hip-hop... Again, you
like what you like... Everybody is entitled to their own opinion...
Many people will say the 80s was a better decade for hip-hop than the
90s and I disagree... Whatever floats your boat...
Still, the quality of mainstream hip-hop has been declining for years
now that pretty much any garbage can sell... We've been fed shit over
and over again that we're almost used to it... I also believe if you
play a song (ANY SONG) enough, people will start to like it which is
why kids nowadays are almost used to hearing nothing but Southern
artists on their radio station and dont have a problem with it... If
you ask them why they like it, they probably couldn't even articulate
why...
> >
> > Hopefully Jay and Nas' new respective albums will drop before the end
> > of the year and that will add some balance to the game... Cause that's
> > pretty much my main complaint here... There needs to be more balance...
>
> I think the east coast just needs to not suck. I think if he hadnt
> gotten locked up Beanie might have been able to do something, he's got
> the right kind of rhyme scheme and flow, but he couldnt capitalize off
> jay retiring and take the crown due to his incarceration/legal
> problems.
The same shit you said about Ghost and AZ could apply to Beans... He
never sold shit even with possibly the biggest rapper of all time
backing him...
I always liked Beanie but I could never see him takin the crown...
> Realistically speaking, it's basically all byrdgang all the
> time, and even their shit isnt moving HUGE units, they just know how to
> create a buzz. You move a moderate amount of units, you talk about how
> much your moving to bring attention to it, so people pay attention and
> take you seriously as a commercially viable entity, then you parlay
> their faith into actual promotions. Suits are too fucking cynical
> when it comes to money to sign some dude whos on some "im the most
> technical sick rapper". You can be the same dude and promote yourself
> as the hottest dude who's moving so many units in the streets and they
> might actually pay attention to that. I read interviews with cats like
> saigon talking about how they're bringing it back and how their rhyming
> is, but they aint got no records no one can go to the store and buy,
> and they dont even make it seem like they are about to drop big and
> you're gonna be able to. Cats from the south get in an interview and
> they're on some "i moved 50k in texas, i got an offer from universal,
> my shit will be everywhere this summer cop it!!!". If new york
> rappers promoted themselves more, they might find more poeple willing
> to get behind them, but they all come across like theyre too
> underground to talk abotu selling units, which gets construed as a lack
> of faith in their ability to do so, and aint no record company looking
> to throw money behind an artist who thinks their shit will sell 500
> copies because "its too advanced for hiphop listeners"
I guess you're right but it still doesn't mean the music being produced
and sold is GOOD...
Ahhhh, who cares... Read the sig while I play Incarcerated Scarfaces...
Bango
JUDGE...............................................................................
http://www.jumpboxtv.com/cyberjudge
You thought Jennifer Lopez was a tripple threat F%@!* Jenny from the
block!
TJ Xenos
Danger3210 wrote:
> TJ Xenos wrote:
> > The point is you werent bitchign about how there was no balance and no
> > southern shit getting played from 86-2000 so it comes across as
> > disingenuous to say you're not on some NYC jocking shit, you just want
> > balance.
> >
>
> Let me rephrase... I actually just want GOOD music... And to me the
> shit I'm hearing on the radio is garbage... It would be nice to see
> more of a balance tho... I dont see why EVERYTHING has to be from the
> South... It's just too much... Hopefully, the market will get
> oversaturated and it'll get played out quick... At least in NY and the
> East coast...
>
> But in the 90s there was much more balance... Sure, it was pretty much
> JUST East and West but there was balance... Different sounds, different
> styles, different coasts... Now everything sounds the same...
It doesnt sound the same, and the east would get played if the east
coast didnt suck snuphaluphagus balls right now. If there's nothing
good except the south, I dont wanna hear anything except the south.
You still havent told me what east coast hiphop is actually deserving
of play in order to provide this "balance", whereas when there was no
balance in the late 80s and early 90s, there was plenty of southern
hiphop that should have been played but got ignored because it wasnt
from new york, as I've pointed out, but you could probably care less
since you dont like southern hiphop
> And again I say, I dont see how anyone can look at hip-hop (mainstream)
> right now and tell me this is a good time for hip-hop cause that's
> straight up bullshit...
There's never been a good time for mainstream hiphoop so I dont
understand what the issue is. Why someone who is so blatantly outside
of the mainstream is so upset with what the mainstream is doing baffles
me. It's like being upset about fucking top 40 or country. Im not
talking about Yin Yang or D4L or Dem Franchize Boyz. Im talking about
shit like Z-Ro, Devin, KeKe, etc. The shit that gets played isnt the
best stuff out, it never has been, thats why they were playing dre and
snoop instead of $hort and 40 in the 90s, why they were playing Onyx
instead of mobb deep, why 50 got run a couple years ago instead of
Jada.
> > That song is mad played out. It was probably one of the first songs on
> > that chamil record I got sick of. Back in fucking november or
> > december. It blows my mind to hear that shit on northeast radio NOW.
> > Muthafuckas might as well still be playing ja rule and ashanti.
> >
>
> Again, I'm complaining about what is getting airtime and that's one of
> the songs thats wack as hell that gets a LOT of play on radio and TV...
> I dont even listen to the radio but passing thru stores and hearing
> other people play the box that song is ALWAYS on...
Im just commenting on the fact that this song is hella old and people
are eating it up. That fact alone clues you into how out of touch with
the present the mainstream is.
>
> > > It seems like thats all I hear on the radio... I dont know who is
> > > behind these beats but truth be told there are few producers nowadays
> > > that I feel (it's pretty much Just Blaze, Alchemist, Kanye, Heatmakers,
> > > Swizz, and Green Lantern)...
> >
> > What im saying is thats a very small percentage of whats out there
> > right now. Its like when primo was hot in 97/98 ish and every cat had
> > one primo beat and that was the joint they put out there. Its the same
> > way with the colli park sparse/bass beats right now down south. It's
> > one beat on each record, but its whats hot, so thats what the single
> > is....
> >
>
> Still, the shit is wack... I can't say it any clearer...
So a hot producer being overused is wack? Or the colli park beats are
wack? Honestly Id say a 2 year old formulaic beat is a lot better than
a 20 year old formulaic beat.
>
> > > > Cam had put out 2 lps and been around for like 6 years before dipset
> > > > popped off. Ghost has had 2 major label deals and put out 5 records,
> > > > atleast 3 of which have had lead singles that got huge pushes and still
> > > > can't sell records. How the fuck you gonna blame the promotion? It
> > > > comes down to the fact that its ghosts fault he aint connectin with
> > > > listeners.
> > > >
> > >
> > > What Ghostface single got a huge (keyword : HUGE) push besides Chez
> > > Chez La Ghost???
> >
> > The donell jones track from BPW was everywhere for 6 months before the
> > record dropped. Duke still sold 300k.
>
> You mean Carl Thomas... And yes that song got a good push but Ghost
> never got a 2nd single on BPW... You really need more than one big
> single to sell a lot of records... (And if I remember correctly BPW was
> selling a lot when it first dropped... I think Ghost even beat Michael
> Jackson the first couple weeks which is big for a guy like Ghost...) I
> think he was getting to the end of his contract with Sony and they
> didnt promote (there's the magic word) BPW enough...
The record didnt go gold. Big releases go gold the first week. So
obviously this record didnt even come close to selling well when it
first dropped. IIRC it poked into the billboard in double digits it's
first week.
>
> > Tush with missy was all over
> > the place. 250K sold.
>
> Tush was a horrible single pretty much JUST for the inclusion of
> Missy... It didnt sell well with oldschool GFK fans and newer fans
> wouldn't buy it either... And Tush didnt get THAT many spins on TV or
> radio...
That thing got played about 40 times a day on our shitty clear channel
hot 97 wannabe in boston.
>
> > And yet, dude still gets a push on his new
> > single. I mean, dude has a poor fucking track record when it comes to
> > sales, but his shit keeps getting pushed. I mean, the fact that you
> > hear any ghostface anywehre other than your crib shows you how new york
> > is still looking out for its own instead of just following the money.
> >
>
> No it's not... The reason why Ghost gets any spins is because HE'S A
> GOOD ARTIST and he's been consistent... And his shit doesn't get pushed
> as much as it should... He's more talented than the amount of promotion
> he gets, PERIOD... Ghostface kills Chamillionaire or any of those
> Southern cats getting all the airtime now... But to each his own...
Ghostface records lose money. Now tell me why you'd put even MORE
money into them when they lose money and pretty much everyone is aware
of the record.
> > >
> > > Granted tho, Ghostface was probably always a little TOO different to be
> > > truly mainstream and maybe thats for the best... Still, it's ALL about
> > > how you're promoted... (In my opinion, it's 90% promotion and 10%
> > > talent/quality of songs...) 50 Cent sold X amount of records just
> > > because we were constantly bombarded with the fact that he was shot
> > > nine times and survived...
> >
> > Dude was getting tons and tons of spins and moving more mixtapes than
> > anyone could fathom off of Wanksta before Em and Dre even signed him
> > though. Fuck promotion that dude blew up off the hottest song in the
> > world. 50 was able to move into bs like films and tv because of the
> > stupid story, but it didnt sell a helluva lot of records because dude
> > was doing big numbers before he started getting media coverage.
> >
>
> We're talkin about two different things here... You're talkin about 50
> blowing up to the hardcore hip-hop fan... I'm talkin about 50 reaching
> the mainstream and that only happened AFTER he signed to Aftermath...
> Sure, the mixtape work got his foot in the door but again 50 would NOT
> be this huge without Dre and Em backing him... He didnt get the MTV-TRL
> audience until after that... He didnt have the white kids in the
> suburbs bumpin his shit until after that... Also, I'm not saying 50
> didnt take the ball and run with it... "In The Club" was a home run and
> just a perfect single for him but again if it wasnt for Em and (REALLY)
> Dre, he wouldnt have become THIS big... Again, it's all about promotion
> and who is backing you... Look at the Game... Is he REALLY that great
> of a rapper??? No but he had the right promotion...
50 making a POP CLUB RECORD followed by a POP BALLAD is mostly what
blew him up to the TRL crowd, admittedly dre had (arguably) a pretty
big hand in In Da Club. 21 questions was like a fucking prom anthem.
Also, the game made a better record than most cats do. His beats were
unfuckingbelievable. I know you may not want to hear this, but cats
care about HOW MUSIC SOUNDS, not that you read some samurai book and
can quote it, then come across as blatantly retarded and unable to talk
about that shit other than directly quoting it, which is why the game
sells records.
>
> > >That's ALL the media talked about when his
> > > first album dropped... We were sold on this image that he was this
> > > superthug character and the masses bought it... There were other
> > > factors too (his affiliation with Em and Dre) and I'm not saying it
> > > didn't START with him busting his ass on the mixtapes but that isn't
> > > the ONLY reason he blew up...
> >
> > He had the hottest song in the country without a record deal. How the
> > fuck the media playing up the thug angle blow him up? If anything the
> > fact that ja rule was on his last 30 seconds of his 15 minutes of fame,
> > and 50 was the cat who came out and came after him got him a push. I
> > mean, 50 didnt start popping up everywhere and having everyone
> > (including the mainstream media) talking about his album until right
> > before it dropped and once it had dropped. Dude came out 4x Plat.
> >
>
> They started talking about him as SOON as he signed with
> Shady/Aftermath... You think that was a coincidence??? You dont think
> the label paid these news outlets to advertise (I mean) REPORT news
> stories about him??? He only started to get the mainstream attention
> until after he signed with Aftermath...
Really? Why was 50 in all the magazines and on MTV news talking about
his options for record deals while he was blowing up the mixtape scene?
Unless we're talking about him being on top 40 radio, but I've been
assuming you've been using the term "mainstream" consistently to refer
to mainstream hiphop, but im beginning to get from context that you
arbitrarily switch between it meaning "mainstream hiphop" and
"mainstream america" as it fits the argument...
> > > > >The mixtape shit works for new guys because word of mouth
> > > > > spreads and if you're good enough and you do a LOT of mixtapes...
> > > > > People talk and hear and say, "yo, you heard this new guy... shit is
> > > > > crazy", etc... But do the same with Ghostface and most would just say,
> > > > > "Ohhhh, that's just Ghostface... I know him already..." He's been out
> > > > > since what 92-93... He's already considered an "old artist"... It's
> > > > > hard for guys like that and AZ to get fresh mixtape buzz...
> > > >
> > > > AZ completely resurrected his career with the SOSA mixtape, returning
> > > > from complete oblivion to decently respectable mid tier status. Not to
> > > > mention, none of these older artists have even MADE THE ATTEMPT at
> > > > trying to get back on via flooding the streets with tapes.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Still tho, AZ never gets radio rotation... Never... And Mobb Deep and
> > > the LOX are ALWAYS on the mixtape grind... ESPECIALLY the LOX...
> >
> > Word is bond, the styles record would have blown up d-block, but the
> > 50/Jada beef and the ensuing politricks has killed their buzz. Instead
> > of riding with the money and playing both sides for maximum profit the
> > suits at interscope caved to 50s ego.
>
> Again, promotion is everything... Just doing the mixtape grind doesn't
> mean you're gonna make it... The LOX are KEY examples of that...
The Lox would have blown up last year if their records didnt get
blackballed. They have distro through interscope and 50 used his
clout at interscope to kill styles's record. Tell me how you're gonna
sell records even with all the promotion in the world if the label
won't put the record out? Supposedly them cats are eating well off the
mixtape hustle, and if they actually had a REAL RECORD they could
parlay that buzz into, they'd probably blow up.
* By real record I mean not a sheek record. That dude just sucks and
even the lox fans know it.
>
> > And AZ has never sold shit.
> > According to RIAA.com the Sugar Hill single went gold and the Doe or
> > Die album didnt even make that. AZ is officially a commercial bust,
> > but he definitely displayed the right ethic with the SOSA joint,
> > resurrecting himself from has been to underground "legend" (as all
> > washed up rappers who make respectable comebacks after falling off
> > commercially are hailed ;)
> >
>
> You can't tell me if AZ didnt have the right people backin him he
> wouldn't have been a bigger star...
He had Nas and Dr Dre backing him in 95. Who the fuck else could he
have had aside from goddamn Tupac and Biggie?
>
> > >
> > > Yeah, we'll see what happens... I find it hard to believe tho there are
> > > NO underground guys in NY that are talented enough to be played on the
> > > radio... Real hard to believe... But like I said before, the young NY
> > > mixtape guys that I hear consistently are average at best...
> >
> > If people in NYC were listening to enough NY cats and demanding to hear
> > them, they'd get played. Thats how the south blew up, and how LA blew
> > up in the 90s.
> >
>
> Kids nowadays dont know what the hell is good hip-hop... Again, you
> like what you like... Everybody is entitled to their own opinion...
> Many people will say the 80s was a better decade for hip-hop than the
> 90s and I disagree... Whatever floats your boat...
I could argue that you dont know what good hiphop is. You like a lot
of brutally mediocre NY rap and hate on a lot of unbelievable southern
rap. I'd argue that hiphop has been remarkably consistent and that its
just that the passage of time has let older wack artists be forgotten
and/or "officially" excluded from the "real hiphop" club whereas newer
stuff
> Still, the quality of mainstream hip-hop has been declining for years
> now that pretty much any garbage can sell... We've been fed shit over
> and over again that we're almost used to it... I also believe if you
> play a song (ANY SONG) enough, people will start to like it which is
> why kids nowadays are almost used to hearing nothing but Southern
> artists on their radio station and dont have a problem with it... If
> you ask them why they like it, they probably couldn't even articulate
> why...
Why do you like NY hiphop? We'll take mobb deep as an example, please
articulate what it is you like about it. The fact that you're used to
it from living in the northeast and hearing them for 12 years is not an
acceptable answer ;)
> > >
> > > Hopefully Jay and Nas' new respective albums will drop before the end
> > > of the year and that will add some balance to the game... Cause that's
> > > pretty much my main complaint here... There needs to be more balance...
> >
> > I think the east coast just needs to not suck. I think if he hadnt
> > gotten locked up Beanie might have been able to do something, he's got
> > the right kind of rhyme scheme and flow, but he couldnt capitalize off
> > jay retiring and take the crown due to his incarceration/legal
> > problems.
>
> The same shit you said about Ghost and AZ could apply to Beans... He
> never sold shit even with possibly the biggest rapper of all time
> backing him...
>
> I always liked Beanie but I could never see him takin the crown...
He's got more gold lps than AZ. Also, I was specifically referring ot
hte B. Coming lp, which had the sick song with Bun B that was all over
southern mixtapes, plus he had the joint with snoop, One Shot Deal, the
In the Air joint, and that record was pasted together and released
while he was in jail. If you get all the fucking young gunz
appearances off there and let beanie actually finish the record, its a
whole nother story..
>
> > Realistically speaking, it's basically all byrdgang all the
> > time, and even their shit isnt moving HUGE units, they just know how to
> > create a buzz. You move a moderate amount of units, you talk about how
> > much your moving to bring attention to it, so people pay attention and
> > take you seriously as a commercially viable entity, then you parlay
> > their faith into actual promotions. Suits are too fucking cynical
> > when it comes to money to sign some dude whos on some "im the most
> > technical sick rapper". You can be the same dude and promote yourself
> > as the hottest dude who's moving so many units in the streets and they
> > might actually pay attention to that. I read interviews with cats like
> > saigon talking about how they're bringing it back and how their rhyming
> > is, but they aint got no records no one can go to the store and buy,
> > and they dont even make it seem like they are about to drop big and
> > you're gonna be able to. Cats from the south get in an interview and
> > they're on some "i moved 50k in texas, i got an offer from universal,
> > my shit will be everywhere this summer cop it!!!". If new york
> > rappers promoted themselves more, they might find more poeple willing
> > to get behind them, but they all come across like theyre too
> > underground to talk abotu selling units, which gets construed as a lack
> > of faith in their ability to do so, and aint no record company looking
> > to throw money behind an artist who thinks their shit will sell 500
> > copies because "its too advanced for hiphop listeners"
>
> I guess you're right but it still doesn't mean the music being produced
> and sold is GOOD...
Some of it is, some of it aint. But bitching about promotion when you
dont fucking work to get promoted is retarded. Basically the
difference right now between NYC cats and southern cats, is southern
cats is the dudes hustling demos to everyone who comes by the block and
trying to book shows, while the nyc cat is the dude in the cypher
talking about how hes never gonna get signed because of industry
politics. Obviously you aint gonna fucking get nowhere if you aint
even trying...
TJ Xenos
solo lp has now in approx 6 months gone plat (went gold out the box).
Ghost has 1 plat record, which took 8 years to get there and hasnt gone
gold in 6 years/3 albums (not even counting the theodore shit that all
has his name and face on it to sell)
wany...@gmail.com
>>
Why/how?
What is your criteria for a good rapper?
Most think Deck and GZA from Wu itself are better.
Wasteland Drifter
On your planet maybe
--
Wasteland Drifter
http://www.wasteland-drifter.co.uk
=============================================
"The most confused person in here, a pointless individual." - Kwaj
=============================================
Peace, Prosperity & Paper - http://peaceandpaper.blogspot.com
=============================================
Love Music : Hate Racism - www.lovemusichateracism.com
=============================================
TJ Xenos
Maybe last century, dogg....
wany...@gmail.com
TJ Xenos wrote:
> > Why/how?
> >
> > What is your criteria for a good rapper?
> >
> > Most think Deck and GZA from Wu itself are better.
>
> Maybe last century, dogg....
Nah, but I'm really interested in why you think Ghost is the best MC
today. This is not me being a smartass. I'm genuinely interested.
TJ Xenos
He makes better records than anyone else. I honestly believe hes the
best emcee ever. No one has a track record like his....
A to the L
you've been smoking HARD today, Mr Xenos...
A to the L
"there is no scientific term for the back of the knee."
"if someone made a pie with lil jon's face baked on it that would be amazing"
"A 1 A - BEACHFRONT AVENUE!!!"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Contradictory Hiphop truth with a bitter and twisted attitude
http://www.altrap.com
TJ Xenos
A to the L wrote:
> On 1 Jun 2006 13:10:04 -0700, "TJ Xenos" <talv...@aol.com> wrote:
> >He makes better records than anyone else. I honestly believe hes the
> >best emcee ever. No one has a track record like his....
>
> you've been smoking HARD today, Mr Xenos...
Show me the emcee whose 5th best album (im easin up here and not even
saying "worst album") is better than "Pretty Toney". Serious
longevity and top drawer skills. Recognize that shit.
A to the L
I'm not questioning his longevity or his skills. But best EVER?
come on now...
TJ Xenos
A to the L wrote:
> On 1 Jun 2006 14:21:40 -0700, "TJ Xenos" <talv...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >A to the L wrote:
> >> On 1 Jun 2006 13:10:04 -0700, "TJ Xenos" <talv...@aol.com> wrote:
> >> >He makes better records than anyone else. I honestly believe hes the
> >> >best emcee ever. No one has a track record like his....
> >>
> >> you've been smoking HARD today, Mr Xenos...
> >
> >Show me the emcee whose 5th best album (im easin up here and not even
> >saying "worst album") is better than "Pretty Toney". Serious
> >longevity and top drawer skills. Recognize that shit.
>
> I'm not questioning his longevity or his skills. But best EVER?
>
> come on now...
Yes. Better than Kool G.
A to the L
you were doing so well up till now...
Imagine Kool G Rap doing The Watch...
the prosecution rests...
TJ Xenos
A to the L wrote:
> On 2 Jun 2006 12:06:33 -0700, "TJ Xenos" <talv...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >A to the L wrote:
> >> On 1 Jun 2006 14:21:40 -0700, "TJ Xenos" <talv...@aol.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> >A to the L wrote:
> >> >> On 1 Jun 2006 13:10:04 -0700, "TJ Xenos" <talv...@aol.com> wrote:
> >> >> >He makes better records than anyone else. I honestly believe hes the
> >> >> >best emcee ever. No one has a track record like his....
> >> >>
> >> >> you've been smoking HARD today, Mr Xenos...
> >> >
> >> >Show me the emcee whose 5th best album (im easin up here and not even
> >> >saying "worst album") is better than "Pretty Toney". Serious
> >> >longevity and top drawer skills. Recognize that shit.
> >>
> >> I'm not questioning his longevity or his skills. But best EVER?
> >>
> >> come on now...
> >
> >Yes. Better than Kool G.
>
> you were doing so well up till now...
>
> Imagine Kool G Rap doing The Watch...
>
> the prosecution rests...
The Giancana Story. Seriously. Come On. Ghost didnt even put that
shit on his album because it wasnt good enough, it only ended up as a
bonus track on Put It On The Line.
Danger3210
I can tell you from my perspective... Cause he's different and
unique... I know a lot will probably shit on that statement but its
true... Is there ANOTHER rapper out there that sounds like him or does
records like him??? No... None... I wouldn't say he's the best but he's
definitely my favorite currently... It's either him or Nas and I cant
say Nas cause he doesnt really have any new songs out currently...
As for the Deck/GZA statements, again those two haven't been real good
since the 90s and nobody in the Wu can fuck with Ghost's catalog...
They dont even come close...
Danger3210
You didnt like The Watch????????????
Man, I REALLY shouldn't even be talking to you...
Danger3210
TJ Xenos wrote:
> > And again I say, I dont see how anyone can look at hip-hop (mainstream)
> > right now and tell me this is a good time for hip-hop cause that's
> > straight up bullshit...
>
> There's never been a good time for mainstream hiphoop so I dont
> understand what the issue is.
I loved mainstream hip-hop in the 90s... I remember finding an old tape
of a bunch of Rap Cities I recorded from the mid 90s and EVERY
VIDEO/Song was good... EVERY... Every now and then I look at Rap City
and the shit is NOTHING but garbage...
> Why someone who is so blatantly outside
> of the mainstream is so upset with what the mainstream is doing baffles
> me. It's like being upset about fucking top 40 or country. Im not
> talking about Yin Yang or D4L or Dem Franchize Boyz. Im talking about
> shit like Z-Ro, Devin, KeKe, etc. The shit that gets played isnt the
> best stuff out, it never has been, thats why they were playing dre and
> snoop instead of $hort and 40 in the 90s, why they were playing Onyx
> instead of mobb deep, why 50 got run a couple years ago instead of
> Jada.
>
But Dre and Snoop were GOOD... So was Onyx (early 90s)... Thats my
whole point... Mainstream hip-hop was good back in those days and like
I said before it really hasnt been good since like 97-98 in my
opinion...
> >
> > > > It seems like thats all I hear on the radio... I dont know who is
> > > > behind these beats but truth be told there are few producers nowadays
> > > > that I feel (it's pretty much Just Blaze, Alchemist, Kanye, Heatmakers,
> > > > Swizz, and Green Lantern)...
> > >
> > > What im saying is thats a very small percentage of whats out there
> > > right now. Its like when primo was hot in 97/98 ish and every cat had
> > > one primo beat and that was the joint they put out there. Its the same
> > > way with the colli park sparse/bass beats right now down south. It's
> > > one beat on each record, but its whats hot, so thats what the single
> > > is....
> > >
> >
> > Still, the shit is wack... I can't say it any clearer...
>
> So a hot producer being overused is wack? Or the colli park beats are
> wack? Honestly Id say a 2 year old formulaic beat is a lot better than
> a 20 year old formulaic beat.
>
So just because it's newer, that makes the beat/style better??? Not in
my world...
> >
> > No it's not... The reason why Ghost gets any spins is because HE'S A
> > GOOD ARTIST and he's been consistent... And his shit doesn't get pushed
> > as much as it should... He's more talented than the amount of promotion
> > he gets, PERIOD... Ghostface kills Chamillionaire or any of those
> > Southern cats getting all the airtime now... But to each his own...
>
> Ghostface records lose money. Now tell me why you'd put even MORE
> money into them when they lose money and pretty much everyone is aware
> of the record.
>
Because you know the guy has talent... And with the right marketing
behind him he could be a huge star... PERIOD... And the right marketing
is NOT just throwing him on some BS R&B track...
Funny... (The whole "samurai" comment...) And yes, I agree...
Production is key... DUH... Hell, one of the main reasons I love
oldschool Wu is because of the RZA's production... And Game sold a lot
of records just because of his affiliation and later his feud with 50
and G-Unit...
Bottom line... Usually music (Especially hip-hop) sells almost JUST
because of promotion and image... You can't deny the fact that 50 Cent
has sold millions of records JUST BECAUSE of his image of this
"superthug" gangsta rapper... Period...
Mainstream hip-hop is mainstream America...
>
> > > > > >The mixtape shit works for new guys because word of mouth
> > > > > > spreads and if you're good enough and you do a LOT of mixtapes...
> > > > > > People talk and hear and say, "yo, you heard this new guy... shit is
> > > > > > crazy", etc... But do the same with Ghostface and most would just say,
> > > > > > "Ohhhh, that's just Ghostface... I know him already..." He's been out
> > > > > > since what 92-93... He's already considered an "old artist"... It's
> > > > > > hard for guys like that and AZ to get fresh mixtape buzz...
> > > > >
> > > > > AZ completely resurrected his career with the SOSA mixtape, returning
> > > > > from complete oblivion to decently respectable mid tier status. Not to
> > > > > mention, none of these older artists have even MADE THE ATTEMPT at
> > > > > trying to get back on via flooding the streets with tapes.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Still tho, AZ never gets radio rotation... Never... And Mobb Deep and
> > > > the LOX are ALWAYS on the mixtape grind... ESPECIALLY the LOX...
> > >
> > > Word is bond, the styles record would have blown up d-block, but the
> > > 50/Jada beef and the ensuing politricks has killed their buzz. Instead
> > > of riding with the money and playing both sides for maximum profit the
> > > suits at interscope caved to 50s ego.
> >
> > Again, promotion is everything... Just doing the mixtape grind doesn't
> > mean you're gonna make it... The LOX are KEY examples of that...
>
> The Lox would have blown up last year if their records didnt get
> blackballed.
No they wouldn't cause they dont have the machine backing them...
Period...
> They have distro through interscope and 50 used his
> clout at interscope to kill styles's record. Tell me how you're gonna
> sell records even with all the promotion in the world if the label
> won't put the record out? Supposedly them cats are eating well off the
> mixtape hustle, and if they actually had a REAL RECORD they could
> parlay that buzz into, they'd probably blow up.
>
> * By real record I mean not a sheek record. That dude just sucks and
> even the lox fans know it.
>
I like Sheek... It's funny he used to be my favorite out of the LOX in
the Bad Boy days... He's not nearly as good as he used to be but I
still like him...
> >
> > > And AZ has never sold shit.
> > > According to RIAA.com the Sugar Hill single went gold and the Doe or
> > > Die album didnt even make that. AZ is officially a commercial bust,
> > > but he definitely displayed the right ethic with the SOSA joint,
> > > resurrecting himself from has been to underground "legend" (as all
> > > washed up rappers who make respectable comebacks after falling off
> > > commercially are hailed ;)
> > >
> >
> > You can't tell me if AZ didnt have the right people backin him he
> > wouldn't have been a bigger star...
>
> He had Nas and Dr Dre backing him in 95. Who the fuck else could he
> have had aside from goddamn Tupac and Biggie?
>
But The Firm failed... Nas and Dre (especially Dre which hit a low
point in those times) backing him back then was more detrimental to his
career actually...
> >
> > > >
> > > > Yeah, we'll see what happens... I find it hard to believe tho there are
> > > > NO underground guys in NY that are talented enough to be played on the
> > > > radio... Real hard to believe... But like I said before, the young NY
> > > > mixtape guys that I hear consistently are average at best...
> > >
> > > If people in NYC were listening to enough NY cats and demanding to hear
> > > them, they'd get played. Thats how the south blew up, and how LA blew
> > > up in the 90s.
> > >
> >
> > Kids nowadays dont know what the hell is good hip-hop... Again, you
> > like what you like... Everybody is entitled to their own opinion...
> > Many people will say the 80s was a better decade for hip-hop than the
> > 90s and I disagree... Whatever floats your boat...
>
> I could argue that you dont know what good hiphop is. You like a lot
> of brutally mediocre NY rap and hate on a lot of unbelievable southern
> rap. I'd argue that hiphop has been remarkably consistent and that its
> just that the passage of time has let older wack artists be forgotten
> and/or "officially" excluded from the "real hiphop" club whereas newer
> stuff
>
It's all a matter of opinion and I can only give you mine... Bottom
line, I aint feeling the Southern artists I hear on the radio...
PERIOD... The shit just dont move me...
> > Still, the quality of mainstream hip-hop has been declining for years
> > now that pretty much any garbage can sell... We've been fed shit over
> > and over again that we're almost used to it... I also believe if you
> > play a song (ANY SONG) enough, people will start to like it which is
> > why kids nowadays are almost used to hearing nothing but Southern
> > artists on their radio station and dont have a problem with it... If
> > you ask them why they like it, they probably couldn't even articulate
> > why...
>
> Why do you like NY hiphop? We'll take mobb deep as an example, please
> articulate what it is you like about it. The fact that you're used to
> it from living in the northeast and hearing them for 12 years is not an
> acceptable answer ;)
>
It's mostly because of their dark mood, tone, and style... Infamous is
probably one of my favorite albums ever... There really isnt a bad
track on it... And Hell on Earth was even darker... Not as good as
Infamous but pretty damn close... Havoc's production and Prodigy's
grimey style... Good lyrics, good hooks, good beats, what more do you
want??? I think a big reason why I still like them (besides the
Alchemist) is mostly due with how good their 2nd and 3rd albums were...
I can't honestly say that if I heard them now for the first time I
would like them as much...
>
> > > >
> > > > Hopefully Jay and Nas' new respective albums will drop before the end
> > > > of the year and that will add some balance to the game... Cause that's
> > > > pretty much my main complaint here... There needs to be more balance...
> > >
> > > I think the east coast just needs to not suck. I think if he hadnt
> > > gotten locked up Beanie might have been able to do something, he's got
> > > the right kind of rhyme scheme and flow, but he couldnt capitalize off
> > > jay retiring and take the crown due to his incarceration/legal
> > > problems.
> >
> > The same shit you said about Ghost and AZ could apply to Beans... He
> > never sold shit even with possibly the biggest rapper of all time
> > backing him...
> >
> > I always liked Beanie but I could never see him takin the crown...
>
> He's got more gold lps than AZ. Also, I was specifically referring ot
> hte B. Coming lp, which had the sick song with Bun B that was all over
> southern mixtapes, plus he had the joint with snoop, One Shot Deal, the
> In the Air joint, and that record was pasted together and released
> while he was in jail. If you get all the fucking young gunz
> appearances off there and let beanie actually finish the record, its a
> whole nother story..
>
Just looked it up and Young Chris was just on 2 songs but nevermind...
I just dont see Beans being more than what he is now... I like him but
I never see him taking that next step...
And really good music doesn't ALWAYS sell, guy... A guy can come out
with the hottest songs ever and AGAIN if he doesn't have the right
promotion behind him, no one will even hear it...
But the NY cat that has his own style isnt gonna get any promotion if
he doesn't match what's selling right now and thats the South... I dont
care how much that guy hustles...
TJ Xenos
Danger3210 wrote:
> > Why do you like NY hiphop? We'll take mobb deep as an example, please
> > articulate what it is you like about it. The fact that you're used to
> > it from living in the northeast and hearing them for 12 years is not an
> > acceptable answer ;)
> >
>
> It's mostly because of their dark mood, tone, and style... Infamous is
> probably one of my favorite albums ever... There really isnt a bad
> track on it... And Hell on Earth was even darker... Not as good as
> Infamous but pretty damn close... Havoc's production and Prodigy's
> grimey style... Good lyrics, good hooks, good beats, what more do you
> want??? I think a big reason why I still like them (besides the
> Alchemist) is mostly due with how good their 2nd and 3rd albums were...
> I can't honestly say that if I heard them now for the first time I
> would like them as much...
I think I figured out the problem with NYC hiphop. There's no *good*
grimey producers. Everythings too polished, nyc needs another
RZA/Havoc to hook up a grimy rapper so that it can then have a slightly
watered down commercial version to bring it mainstream. If 50 wasnt so
damn controlling, he might have been able to bring nyc back, but he
mostly avoided collabing with other artists and then beefed with other
cats that he could have worked with and "brought new york back" with.
NYC has attained crabs in the bucket status IMO.