I May Have To Listen To G-Unit Album
Bay Way 41510
I heard Alchemist is doing most of this Lloyd Banks (?) LP
Confirmation?
STRATEGY
---Pimp---
> as much as it sounds like getting teeth pulled...
It's not as bad as I think you're expecting.
> I heard Alchemist is doing most of this Lloyd Banks (?) LP
>
>
> Confirmation?
I heard that too. Production to be handled between Alchemist and Red Spyder.
Red Spyder has some heaters.
---Pimp---
Juice Coldmaney AKA Mr Get Bad
>> as much as it sounds like getting teeth pulled...
>
>It's not as bad as I think you're expecting.
The beats are real tight, but the lyrics and flows are as generic as it can
get.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
PAY ME OR PAY ME NO MIND
Wasteland Drifter
"---Pimp---" <tedebar...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2g490eF...@uni-berlin.de...
> "Bay Way 41510" <ikey...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > as much as it sounds like getting teeth pulled...
>
> It's not as bad as I think you're expecting.
>
no... it's probably worse!
WEAK album... something for the kids to listen to but not worth the time or
effort of listening to if you have any interest in Hip-Hop
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
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---Pimp---
message
> > > as much as it sounds like getting teeth pulled...
> >
> > It's not as bad as I think you're expecting.
> >
>
> no... it's probably worse!
>
> WEAK album... something for the kids to listen to but not worth the time
or
> effort of listening to if you have any interest in Hip-Hop
No, PATCHY album. Some really good tracks on there, some fodder, some shit.
Nowhere near as bad as people like you like to make out.
---Pimp---
Wasteland Drifter
> people like you like to make out.
people like me??
you mean people who don't like generic jibberish?
G-Unit are for the 'pop' market... fair enough... but they say nothing in
their lyrics and the beats would sound better with an r'n'b bitch over them.
Their flows are average at best.
Compare the G-Unit album to a Gangstarr, DITC, or Dilated album and it's not
patchy at all... it's shit.
---Pimp---
Yes. People like you.
> you mean people who don't like generic jibberish?
No. Eltist people who think they're 'above' listening to G-Unit by calling
G-Unit "generic jibberish" and meanwhile hailing people like El-P "one of
the best out there at the moment".
> G-Unit are for the 'pop' market...
They aren't and weren't for the 'pop' market (assuming you mean pop to mean
top 40). While "Stunt 101" and "Wanna Get To Know You" crossed over to a top
40 market, songs such as "My Buddy" will never be played and were never made
to be played next to Britney Spears. G Unit have never been marketed as a
pop group.
but they say nothing in
> their lyrics and the beats would sound better with an r'n'b bitch over
them.
They say nothing in their lyrics? Who do you hail as your favourite emcees?
> Compare the G-Unit album to a Gangstarr, DITC, or Dilated album and it's
not
> patchy at all... it's shit.
No, it's patchy.
---Pimp---
Wasteland Drifter
> "Wasteland Drifter" <free_expressio...@hotmail.com> wrote in
> message
> > people like me??
>
> Yes. People like you.
>
> > you mean people who don't like generic jibberish?
>
> No. Eltist people who think they're 'above' listening to G-Unit by calling
> G-Unit "generic jibberish" and meanwhile hailing people like El-P "one of
> the best out there at the moment".
>
Eltist? So that must mean that if you don't like something, in this case one
artist, that has sold out to mainstream expectations of what Hip-Hop should
sound like then some how you think you're better than people who like it...
well look... it's my opinion that G-Unit are shit, if you wanna listen to
them fine it's your choice I don't remember attacking you personally for
liking them... you just got all defensive...
> > G-Unit are for the 'pop' market...
>
> They aren't and weren't for the 'pop' market (assuming you mean pop to
mean
> top 40). While "Stunt 101" and "Wanna Get To Know You" crossed over to a
top
> 40 market, songs such as "My Buddy" will never be played and were never
made
> to be played next to Britney Spears. G Unit have never been marketed as a
> pop group.
They aren't for the 'pop market'?? Yeah sure they aren't... continually
played on MTV, apperances on Top Of The Pops, mainstream media coverage,
generic R'n'B beats, stereotypical 'gangsta' lyrics that border on
confrontational but not so much that they would upset the middle class
Guardian readers too much... that's surely not an attempt at entering the
pop market!
> but they say nothing in
> > their lyrics and the beats would sound better with an r'n'b bitch over
> them.
>
> They say nothing in their lyrics? Who do you hail as your favourite
emcees?
My favorite emcees... KRS, Del, De La, Aceyalone, Black Thought, Guru,
Jehst, Blade, Braintax, Rodney P...
---Pimp---
one
> artist, that has sold out to mainstream expectations of what Hip-Hop
should
> sound like then some how you think you're better than people who like
it...
It is your opinion that the artists in question have "sold out to mainstream
expectations of what hiphop should be". It is also your opinion that the
artists in question are purveyors of 'generic jibberish'. Therefore, and
please correct me if I'm wrong, it is your opinion that those who don't like
the artist have better taste than those who will accept sell-out 'generic
jibberish'. That, my friend, is an elitist opinion.
> well look... it's my opinion that G-Unit are shit, if you wanna listen to
> them fine it's your choice I don't remember attacking you personally for
> liking them...
Saying you are an elitist is not a personal attack. Calling you an elitist
wanker would be a personal attack - which I am not doing. I am having a
debate - not personally attacking anyone.
> They aren't for the 'pop market'?? Yeah sure they aren't... continually
> played on MTV, apperances on Top Of The Pops, mainstream media coverage,
> generic R'n'B beats, stereotypical 'gangsta' lyrics that border on
> confrontational but not so much that they would upset the middle class
> Guardian readers too much... that's surely not an attempt at entering the
> pop market!
Do you honestly think 50 Cent is thinking of the middle class british white
man when he writes lyrics? Come on, you're playing yourself. Their music has
crossed over to the top 40 market. Pop is short for popular. MTV, Top of the
pops and mainstream media play whatever's hot or popular at the moment. At
the moment, hiphop is hot. It is the dominant artform in popular culture at
the mometn and therefore MTV, Radio 1, TOTP and commercial media will play
and feature those artists that are popular such as 50 Cent, Jay-Z and Kanye
West. Is it then pop music? No. Have they watered down/changed what they
were saying/doing/making before they blew? No.
Busted make music aimed at the pop market. Britney Spears makes music aimed
at the pop market. The artists we are discussing make music that because of
the current profile of hiphop therefore appeals to fans who like whatever's
popular.
Generic R'n'B beats? These days, there's no difference between R'n'B and
hiphop beats. All R'n'B really is at the moment is people singing over
hiphop beats.
> My favorite emcees... KRS, Del, De La, Aceyalone, Black Thought, Guru,
> Jehst, Blade, Braintax, Rodney P...
I know personally that at least 80% of those artists you mention own the G
Unit album. I know for a fact Maceo from De La, Jehst, Blade, Braintax and
Rodders have it and like it. Hell, Rodders put me onto G Unit because he was
constantly bumping the mixtapes ages before they became Shady/Aftermath.
---Pimp---
Wasteland Drifter
> "Wasteland Drifter" <free_expressio...@hotmail.com> wrote in
> message
> > Eltist? So that must mean that if you don't like something, in this case
> one
> > artist, that has sold out to mainstream expectations of what Hip-Hop
> should
> > sound like then some how you think you're better than people who like
> it...
>
> It is your opinion that the artists in question have "sold out to
mainstream
> expectations of what hiphop should be". It is also your opinion that the
> artists in question are purveyors of 'generic jibberish'. Therefore, and
> please correct me if I'm wrong, it is your opinion that those who don't
like
> the artist have better taste than those who will accept sell-out 'generic
> jibberish'. That, my friend, is an elitist opinion.
I never said I had better taste than anyone... once again I was just
expressing my opinion of one group, which is apparently elitest because I
think they are shit
> Do you honestly think 50 Cent is thinking of the middle class british
white
> man when he writes lyrics?
No he's not specifically thinking "Oh the Guardian readers will love this
shit"... let's look at Ice-T and NWA... they were doing 'gangsta' shit,
pissing people off and generally making music that meant something, yet
having relative success (more so in the States than in Blighty)... 50 knows
he can't have massive sales by pissing people off as much as they did.
Eminem managed it but he's white so different rules came into play.
>Come on, you're playing yourself. Their music has
> crossed over to the top 40 market. Pop is short for popular. MTV, Top of
the
> pops and mainstream media play whatever's hot or popular at the moment. At
> the moment, hiphop is hot. It is the dominant artform in popular culture
at
> the mometn and therefore MTV, Radio 1, TOTP and commercial media will play
> and feature those artists that are popular such as 50 Cent, Jay-Z and
Kanye
> West. Is it then pop music? No. Have they watered down/changed what they
> were saying/doing/making before they blew? No.
>
To quote Busta Rhymes "Hip-hop is cultural music, Rap is business music"
(from 'Syntax Error' if you don't know)... my problem with the current
'thug' (or whatever label it's been given today) is that it says nothing...
once again going back to Ice-T, Cube and NWA... they told stories in their
rhymes, placed you in situations and didn't really glamourise the lifestyle.
G-Unit and similar artists don't do this in my opinion. They just say all
the things that they are expected to say, ie occasional gun reference, how
much money they have, their jewelry, references to their 'past' lives as
dealers... it's all too predictable... plus with 50 I've not heard such
passionless delivery of rhymes since Mase was on the scene...
> Busted make music aimed at the pop market. Britney Spears makes music
aimed
> at the pop market. The artists we are discussing make music that because
of
> the current profile of hiphop therefore appeals to fans who like
whatever's
> popular.
I'll be honest... I don't discriminate between G-Unit and Busted when I talk
about pop music. In my opinion that's what they are. The industry has
realised they can make money from Hip-Hop and have pushed artists who are
willing to make the generic style of 'thug' music and claimed it's Hip-Hop.
> Generic R'n'B beats? These days, there's no difference between R'n'B and
> hiphop beats. All R'n'B really is at the moment is people singing over
> hiphop beats.
>
There's no difference between mainstream rap beats and r'n'b beats. Look at
the main culprit for this happening, Puff Daddy. What he mainly does is like
MC Hammer's use of Super Freak, ie take a recogniseable funk loop, beef it
up slightly and add some MC over the top, this works for the generic R'n'B
singers these days as well. To say this is Hip-Hop is disrespecting people
like Pete Rock, The Bomb Squad, Premier, etc. in my opinion. They put shit
loads of work into their beats, and yeah it may not be as commercially
succesful as Puffy, Kanye or whoever is 'hot' at the moment, but to me one
Premier beat is worth every beat Puffy has ever done. That's not to say that
it doesn't have it's place tho, I just get pissed when it's called Hip-Hop.
I do have to say tho, that I think the Neptunes are dope as fuck and you
don't get much more commercially successful than those guys! =)
> I know personally that at least 80% of those artists you mention own the G
> Unit album. I know for a fact Maceo from De La, Jehst, Blade, Braintax and
> Rodders have it and like it. Hell, Rodders put me onto G Unit because he
was
> constantly bumping the mixtapes ages before they became Shady/Aftermath.
>
Does that mean I have to like them? No... Just because I like one artists
music doesn't mean I have to own and like the same records they own/like.
Rodney P has always said he likes the commerically successful stuff, usually
mentioning Jay-Z... that doesn't mean I rush out and buy all his shit... I
do however agree with Rodney P when he says that a Jay-Z or even a G-Unit
track is better in a club than a Dilated or El-P track because it'll get the
ladies dancing and when you're out you don't need heavy shit... doesn't mean
I have to listen to it at home. My collection spans many genres of music,
including some of the artists I am classifying as pop, and I recognise
Hip-Hop's influence in a lot of it, but because, for example, the Manic
Street Preachers claim they wanted to start a band after listening to PE,
doesn't mean I class them as Hip-hop. Listen to 'Stakes Is High' by De La
and tell me that they aren't talking about the shit that is commerically
successful now and being labelled as Hip-Hop...
I know I'm probably just rambling now and being incoherant... my main point
is... we should draw a line between Rap and Hip-Hop... not discriminate
against either (as both need each other to survive)... accept that Rap
artists (ie Jay-Z, G-Unit, etc.) are there totally for the money (nothing
wrong with that if they are honest about it, and hats off to Jay-Z for being
honest about it) and Hip-Hop artists (ie Gangstarr, Dilated, Del, De La,
etc.) are there to 'edutain' and build the whole culture of Hip-Hop (along
with making some cash along the way.) It's not meant in an elitist way,
after 30+ years you'd expect a genre of music to become divided in some way,
look at Rock and 'Dance' for example... we are just reluctant to allow it to
happen and just have in-fighting about it.
Pizon
This is British slang, isn't it? I've never heard anyone describe anything as
being "shit" in America.
Get at me,
Pizon
New website coming soon...
--
...P.I. till I die and I just laugh at you cats...
Pizon
>> were saying/doing/making before they blew? No.
>>
hahahaha
Noixe, the other Adrock
> > Jehst, Blade, Braintax, Rodney P...
>
> I know personally that at least 80% of those artists you mention own the G
> Unit album. I know for a fact Maceo from De La, Jehst, Blade, Braintax and
> Rodders have it and like it. Hell, Rodders put me onto G Unit because he was
> constantly bumping the mixtapes ages before they became Shady/Aftermath.
nothing makes me happier than when someone rolls up talkin about how
Dope Thug Rap Group #425 are just spittin ignorant shit and how Dope
"Conscious" Rapper #251 is so much better because they aren't pop,
only to find out that Dope "Conscious" Rapper #251 sits around
listening to Dope Thug Rap Group #425 all day.
I broke a few hearts when I told everyone that RJD2 listens to E-40
and Ganksta Nip.
TJ Xenos
>nothing makes me happier than when someone rolls up talkin about how
>Dope Thug Rap Group #425 are just spittin ignorant shit and how Dope
>"Conscious" Rapper #251 is so much better because they aren't pop,
>only to find out that Dope "
the whole fucking thing is gay. Im down for artists hether they be thug group
#339 (the lox) or conscious rapper #175 (kweli) im not down for homos who try
to segregate and put themselves above others and arent down for supporting all
hiphop. Fiftys a shitload better in this regard big upping kweli than anticon
or whoever trying to distance themselves from g-rap. Violence is as much a
part of life as politics or spirituality or love or whatfuckingever. And
seriously rhymes about drugs, cars and women are a lot more releant to most
people than rhymes about the 4 elements. Hella more people have
scrapped/fucked/driven/done drugs than have rapped/dj/done graf/breakdanced.
T.J. Xenos
"great music is better than average sex" - Merle Haggard
"When I got the music, I got a place to go" - Rancid
Wasteland Drifter
"TJ Xenos" <talv...@aol.comeinureye> wrote in message
news:20040509131943...@mb-m10.aol.com...
See how people just assume shit??
Where have I said I'm better than anyone just coz I think G-Unit are shit
and they are 'rap' not Hip-Hop?
And just because violence is a part of life does that mean that it has to be
glorified? I don't think so. What's so wrong with wanting to distance
yourself from people who glorify violence? Not everyone dreams of doing
drive-by's and drug deals... and don't wanna have to listen to it 24/7 with
the same tales recycled by average emcees.
Let me guess... O.C. and De La are 'homos' as well for saying the same stuff
in their music.
And while I can't say G-Unit are wank without all these misconceptions about
being elitist,etc. , it's totally ok for all of you to attack El-P and
Anticon and be elitist in your own way... no doubt the hypocritical nature
of your posts will be missed and some attempt at a 'witty' one liner will be
posted in response...
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Noixe, the other Adrock
>
> Where have I said I'm better than anyone just coz I think G-Unit are shit
> and they are 'rap' not Hip-Hop?
that's not really the point.
> And just because violence is a part of life does that mean that it has to be
> glorified? I don't think so. What's so wrong with wanting to distance
> yourself from people who glorify violence? Not everyone dreams of doing
> drive-by's and drug deals... and don't wanna have to listen to it 24/7 with
> the same tales recycled by average emcees.
not everyone dreams of dealing drugs, but a whole mess of people
really do it.
> Let me guess... O.C. and De La are 'homos' as well for saying the same stuff
> in their music.
first of all..."I'm OC, who are you, I never heard of ya/get out my
way before I turn into a fucking murderer."
OC and De La (and most other rappers on that ish) have beef with
fakers. If you front like you have 400 Ferraris and 20 minks and shit,
you're fakin. Frontin is bad. If you're real, you're real. and OC and
De La have no beef. On the other hand, you're just bitching because
people are talkin about violence.
> And while I can't say G-Unit are wank without all these misconceptions about
> being elitist,etc. , it's totally ok for all of you to attack El-P and
> Anticon and be elitist in your own way... no doubt the hypocritical nature
> of your posts will be missed and some attempt at a 'witty' one liner will be
> posted in response...
You're attacking the content, most Anticon and El-P haters are
attacking the music, which is much more justifiable.
Besides, I like El-P. And Despot. it's all about Despot.
Bay Way 41510
> >"Bay Way 41510" <ikey...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >> as much as it sounds like getting teeth pulled...
> >
> >It's not as bad as I think you're expecting.
>
> The beats are real tight, but the lyrics and flows are as generic as it can
> get.
by the way, I meant to say "a G Unit album" (as in the Lloyd Banks
supposedly by Alchemist), not "THE G-Unit album"
I want no part of that
STRATEGY
StephenJ
> let's look at Ice-T and NWA... they were doing 'gangsta' shit,
> pissing people off and generally making music that meant something, yet
> having relative success (more so in the States than in Blighty)... 50
knows
> he can't have massive sales by pissing people off as much as they did.
I'd say artists like 50 piss more people off quite a few people - mysogyny,
glorification of guns and violence, etc. They get slammed in the media and
by critics for that all the time.
I don't recall De La Soul pissing anyone off with "art official
intelligence" (except for many hip-hop fans, that is).
> To quote Busta Rhymes "Hip-hop is cultural music, Rap is business music"
I can agree if we're comparing 50 or p.diddy to some guy rhyming on the
streetcorner while his friend is breakdancing on a sheet of cardboard next
to him. But once any artist signs a record contract, stamps out CDs and puts
them on sale, they are all about business. So i can't 'buy' your hip-hop/rap
distinction.
> (from 'Syntax Error' if you don't know)... my problem with the current
> 'thug' (or whatever label it's been given today) is that it says
nothing...
> once again going back to Ice-T, Cube and NWA... they told stories in their
> rhymes, placed you in situations and didn't really glamourise the
lifestyle.
Oh man. That's where all this modern stuff comes from. IMO they surely did
glamorize it. The other day I listened to 'straight outta' and 'death
certificate' for the first time in a few years. These guys aren't just
telling stories, they are boasting. Boasting of their physical
bad-assedness, boasting of their sexual prowess, etc.
And there's nothing wrong with that. Boasting has been part of it since day
one...
> G-Unit and similar artists don't do this in my opinion. They just say all
> the things that they are expected to say, ie occasional gun reference, how
> much money they have, their jewelry, references to their 'past' lives as
> dealers... it's all too predictable... plus with 50 I've not heard such
> passionless delivery of rhymes since Mase was on the scene...
Agree that it is highly predictable, but same is true of De La, Dilated, and
other backpacker favorites. You know what the themes are going to be going
in to any new joint.
> There's no difference between mainstream rap beats and r'n'b beats. Look
at
> the main culprit for this happening, Puff Daddy. What he mainly does is
like
> MC Hammer's use of Super Freak, ie take a recogniseable funk loop, beef it
> up slightly and add some MC over the top, this works for the generic R'n'B
> singers these days as well.
Puffy had his day, but that was 6-7 years ago. I'm thinking of the biggest
rap hits of the past year - chingy, 50, ludacris, missy, outkast - and can't
think of an obvious loop sample from any of them...
> To say this is Hip-Hop is disrespecting people
> like Pete Rock, The Bomb Squad, Premier, etc. in my opinion.
The other poster has a point. It's one thing to say that IYO Nelly is bad
hip-hop. It's elitist to say it isn't hip-hop. Because the essence of
elitism is exclusion. Rap is a component of HH so how can rap be excluded
from HH?
Personally, i think De La is bad hip-hop. The last record of theirs that
didn't put me to sleep was '3 feet high'. But i wouldn't dare to say the
rest of their music wasn't hip-hop just because i don't like it...
> They put shit
> loads of work into their beats, and yeah it may not be as commercially
> succesful as Puffy, Kanye or whoever is 'hot' at the moment, but to me one
> Premier beat is worth every beat Puffy has ever done.
The Neptunes are pretty hot, and they seem to invest a lot in their beats...
> That's not to say that
> it doesn't have it's place tho, I just get pissed when it's called
Hip-Hop.
Elitist...And i'm no alterna-hater. It's just that some alternative bores
me. For example, in rock, REM was the equivalent of De La - boring coffee
shop alternative. Eminem 1999 was the equivalent of Nirvana - kick you in
the ass/slap you upside the head alternative. I like the latter. But it's
all rap/hip-hop music.
Here's a quick definition: "rap is the musical component of hip-hop
subculture"...
> I do have to say tho, that I think the Neptunes are dope as fuck and you
> don't get much more commercially successful than those guys! =)
Well ok then. :)
> I know I'm probably just rambling now and being incoherant... my main
point
> is... we should draw a line between Rap and Hip-Hop.
Surely, lines need to be drawn somewhere, otherwise we'd have to call 1940s
frank sinatra music or 1960s Beatles music hip-hop, and that would be silly.
But a distinction between rap and hip-hop? Rap is a component of HH culture
and always has been.
IMO, there is no hip-hop *music*. HH refers to a whole subculture, not just
a music. It's a subculture with at least 4 components, of which rap music is
one.
>.. not discriminate
> against either (as both need each other to survive)... accept that Rap
> artists (ie Jay-Z, G-Unit, etc.) are there totally for the money (nothing
> wrong with that if they are honest about it, and hats off to Jay-Z for
being
> honest about it) and Hip-Hop artists (ie Gangstarr, Dilated, Del, De La,
> etc.) are there to 'edutain' and build the whole culture of Hip-Hop (along
> with making some cash along the way.) It's not meant in an elitist way,
> after 30+ years you'd expect a genre of music to become divided in some
way,
You obviously prefer rap music that aims to educate as well as entertain
(make money) over rap music that solely seeks to entertain (make money). So
call the former "good" rap music and the latter "bad" rap music. But don't
say one is HH and the other isn't.
--
"We are launching a major attack on the enemy.
Better that 10 innocent people should suffer than
one spy get away. When you chop wood, chips
fly."
-Soviet 'Commissar of Justice' N. Yezhov, to
Stalin and the Politburo, 1937.
noixe!
Wasteland Drifter wrote:
> "---Pimp---" <tedebar...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:2g4rssF...@uni-berlin.de...
> > people like you like to make out.
>
> people like me??
>
> you mean people who don't like generic jibberish?
>
> G-Unit are for the 'pop' market... fair enough... but they say nothing in
> their lyrics and the beats would sound better with an r'n'b bitch over them.
> Their flows are average at best.
>
> Compare the G-Unit album to a Gangstarr, DITC, or Dilated album and it's not
> patchy at all... it's shit.
the Dilated albums are all pretty much bland front to back. it's like eating a
pie consisting entirely of crust.
and the one DITC album is good, but very uneven.
--
Noixe
The Underground Post: noixe01.blogspot.com
Wasteland Drifter
"noixe!" <"afriedman "@ cellbiology.wustl.eduCATIONTASTESGOOD> wrote in
message news:c7oajp$46m$2...@newsreader.wustl.edu...
I personally cannot understand how you can say Dilated albums are 'pretty
much bland front to back'.
I've loved them all and felt they've covered so much lyrically and also
musically (maybe not 'The Platform' which was 'underground' in terms of the
sound of it.)
I put them close to Gangstarr in terms of consistency (obviously they have
to make more albums and more athemns) but each album has shown a growth and
also been really good in my opinion, plus I just think Evidence has got one
of the best voices in the industry right now but again that's personal
choice.
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Wasteland Drifter
"StephenJ" <SJ...@sestSJJj.ttcom> wrote in message
news:sACnc.34647$pJ1.20810@lakeread02...
>
>
> > let's look at Ice-T and NWA... they were doing 'gangsta' shit,
> > pissing people off and generally making music that meant something, yet
> > having relative success (more so in the States than in Blighty)... 50
> knows
> > he can't have massive sales by pissing people off as much as they did.
>
> I'd say artists like 50 piss more people off quite a few people -
mysogyny,
> glorification of guns and violence, etc. They get slammed in the media and
> by critics for that all the time.
>
50 gets the occassional 'oh he glorifys guns' reference but most of the
people who criticise him for that have also said he's done the best album,
etc. (btw 'In Da Club' dope beat shame it was wasted on 50!)
> I don't recall De La Soul pissing anyone off with "art official
> intelligence" (except for many hip-hop fans, that is).
>
I never said De La pissed anyone off... the whole piss people off angle was
aimed at the so-called 'gangsta' genre
> > To quote Busta Rhymes "Hip-hop is cultural music, Rap is business music"
>
> I can agree if we're comparing 50 or p.diddy to some guy rhyming on the
> streetcorner while his friend is breakdancing on a sheet of cardboard next
> to him. But once any artist signs a record contract, stamps out CDs and
puts
> them on sale, they are all about business. So i can't 'buy' your
hip-hop/rap
> distinction.
>
I never said that any of the artists who I classify as Hip-Hop weren't
making money off their shit... it's a question of priority... G-Unit, etc.
money is the main reason to do what they do where as with people like
Dilated, El-P, etc. I don't think that is the driving force behind what they
do, if it was then I'm sure they could do the whole 'thug' shit as well as
the next man
> > (from 'Syntax Error' if you don't know)... my problem with the current
> > 'thug' (or whatever label it's been given today) is that it says
> nothing...
> > once again going back to Ice-T, Cube and NWA... they told stories in
their
> > rhymes, placed you in situations and didn't really glamourise the
> lifestyle.
>
> Oh man. That's where all this modern stuff comes from. IMO they surely did
> glamorize it. The other day I listened to 'straight outta' and 'death
> certificate' for the first time in a few years. These guys aren't just
> telling stories, they are boasting. Boasting of their physical
> bad-assedness, boasting of their sexual prowess, etc.
>
OK I get your point and yes they are using Ice-T and NWA somewhat as 'role
models'... but if you really listen to 'Straight Outta Compton' and most
Ice-T/ Ice Cube albums they aren't really saying it's a good lifestyle...
Ice-T esp (I say that coz I know his stuff better than the others) is saying
being a rapper is much better than doing all that shit, where as I don't
believe G-Unit are doing that... but as with any song it's down to the
listeners interpretation of it I guess
> And there's nothing wrong with that. Boasting has been part of it since
day
> one...
>
True but most of the boasting back in the day was just hope dope they were
as emcees not how much 'bling' they had or how many times they had been shot
> > G-Unit and similar artists don't do this in my opinion. They just say
all
> > the things that they are expected to say, ie occasional gun reference,
how
> > much money they have, their jewelry, references to their 'past' lives as
> > dealers... it's all too predictable... plus with 50 I've not heard such
> > passionless delivery of rhymes since Mase was on the scene...
>
> Agree that it is highly predictable, but same is true of De La, Dilated,
and
> other backpacker favorites. You know what the themes are going to be going
> in to any new joint.
>
OK this I don't quite get, it's the one point in your post that I really
couldn't see the angle with... De La, best example in this case, they've
gone from Potholes to Millie Pulled A Pistol to Stakes Is High to Peer
Pressure... now all of the songs mentioned along with the rest of the albums
they come from deal with totally different shit. I admit that a lot of the
so-called 'backpack' hip-hop can be predictable in terms of they'll be
saying something along the lines of 'Hip-Hop is dead' or promoting the 4
elements but I don't think people like De La or even Dilated can be classed
in that
> > There's no difference between mainstream rap beats and r'n'b beats. Look
> at
> > the main culprit for this happening, Puff Daddy. What he mainly does is
> like
> > MC Hammer's use of Super Freak, ie take a recogniseable funk loop, beef
it
> > up slightly and add some MC over the top, this works for the generic
R'n'B
> > singers these days as well.
>
> Puffy had his day, but that was 6-7 years ago. I'm thinking of the biggest
> rap hits of the past year - chingy, 50, ludacris, missy, outkast - and
can't
> think of an obvious loop sample from any of them...
>
Chingy... dude is just funny coz of his accent (my opinion and I like the
guy)... Luda... he is sick! Really good emcee in my opinion, let down by
choice of beat some of the time tho... 50, just weak simple as... Missy,
nothing without Timbaland in my opinion... Outkast, DOPE as hell, they do
their own thing and recently it seems that the mass public have caught up to
them but can anyone say that they've done an album better than Aquemini?
(something that was majorly slept on this side of the Atlantic)
> > To say this is Hip-Hop is disrespecting people
> > like Pete Rock, The Bomb Squad, Premier, etc. in my opinion.
>
> The other poster has a point. It's one thing to say that IYO Nelly is bad
> hip-hop. It's elitist to say it isn't hip-hop. Because the essence of
> elitism is exclusion. Rap is a component of HH so how can rap be excluded
> from HH?
>
Ok I accept.. maybe it is elitist to say that... it made me think of the KRS
lyric 'Rap is something you do, Hip-Hop is something you live'... my point
though is that people like Nelly do it purely for the money, maybe naively I
don't think that some of the artists I've mentioned do do it purely for the
cash.
> Personally, i think De La is bad hip-hop. The last record of theirs that
> didn't put me to sleep was '3 feet high'. But i wouldn't dare to say the
> rest of their music wasn't hip-hop just because i don't like it...
>
That's kinda sad from my point of view coz '3 Feet' isn't even their best
album in my opinion...
> > They put shit
> > loads of work into their beats, and yeah it may not be as commercially
> > succesful as Puffy, Kanye or whoever is 'hot' at the moment, but to me
one
> > Premier beat is worth every beat Puffy has ever done.
>
> The Neptunes are pretty hot, and they seem to invest a lot in their
beats...
As you noticed below I think the Neptunes are fucking dope... they've
managed to hit the nail on the head in terms of funky ass music that
transends genres... but it's their sound and they do put a lot of work into
it, a lot of the so-called 'hot' producers don't seem to go that far... it
all sounds so similar to me
>
> > That's not to say that
> > it doesn't have it's place tho, I just get pissed when it's called
> Hip-Hop.
>
> Elitist...And i'm no alterna-hater. It's just that some alternative bores
> me. For example, in rock, REM was the equivalent of De La - boring coffee
> shop alternative. Eminem 1999 was the equivalent of Nirvana - kick you in
> the ass/slap you upside the head alternative. I like the latter. But it's
> all rap/hip-hop music.
>
A little harsh with your description of De La and a little too soft on the
impact of Em. De La deal with a lot of shit in their music and have covered
so many sounds in the music, I can't see the comparison with REM but that's
just me... Em in all fairness (and this is coming from someone who loves
Nirvana) is bigger than Nirvana and his impact will be much longer
lasting... Em brought total piss you off music into every household in the
western world and did it with such ability, Nirvana were more of a "I'm piss
ed off here's my pain" type of thing which rock hasn't really got over
yet... Em has changed modern music, he may not be the best producer, D12 may
not be the best group, but we all know when an Eminem album is about to
drop... got nothing but respect for him, even if I think The Eminem Show was
pretty dull...
> Here's a quick definition: "rap is the musical component of hip-hop
> subculture"...
>
Maybe... again going back to the KRS quote... but I think we have to accept
that there are differences between the groups in Hip-Hop... if we all accept
that then maybe I wouldn't be so quick to say that the money hungry weren't
Hip-Hop.
> > I do have to say tho, that I think the Neptunes are dope as fuck and you
> > don't get much more commercially successful than those guys! =)
>
> Well ok then. :)
>
> > I know I'm probably just rambling now and being incoherant... my main
> point
> > is... we should draw a line between Rap and Hip-Hop.
>
> Surely, lines need to be drawn somewhere, otherwise we'd have to call
1940s
> frank sinatra music or 1960s Beatles music hip-hop, and that would be
silly.
> But a distinction between rap and hip-hop? Rap is a component of HH
culture
> and always has been.
>
That goes back to the Busta quote of 'Rap is business music, Hip-Hop is
cultural music'... I can see a difference but obviously can't express it
correctly
> IMO, there is no hip-hop *music*. HH refers to a whole subculture, not
just
> a music. It's a subculture with at least 4 components, of which rap music
is
> one.
>
Hip-Hop is the culture without a doubt but their is some music that
represents that culture more so than others
> >.. not discriminate
> > against either (as both need each other to survive)... accept that Rap
> > artists (ie Jay-Z, G-Unit, etc.) are there totally for the money
(nothing
> > wrong with that if they are honest about it, and hats off to Jay-Z for
> being
> > honest about it) and Hip-Hop artists (ie Gangstarr, Dilated, Del, De La,
> > etc.) are there to 'edutain' and build the whole culture of Hip-Hop
(along
> > with making some cash along the way.) It's not meant in an elitist way,
> > after 30+ years you'd expect a genre of music to become divided in some
> way,
>
> You obviously prefer rap music that aims to educate as well as entertain
> (make money) over rap music that solely seeks to entertain (make money).
So
> call the former "good" rap music and the latter "bad" rap music. But don't
> say one is HH and the other isn't.
>
I do prefer something that'll either make me think or give me some insight
into the artist rather than generic jibberish... they all make money of this
shit, I've never said any different, again it's a case of priorities... we
could all knock out a track based on a old funk loop talking about drugs and
guns but could we do something from the heart over a beat that was unique?
Both have a place in the musical spectrum but I don't think someone reciting
the same old stories about drug deals and shooting people should be
representative of our culture... I mean come on... if all these people
actually did the shit they said on record then there would hardly be anyone
alive in the U.S. plus don't you think the police would be interested in
what they were 'admitting' to? The majority are just an 'actor with a record
deal tryin to play the part' yet claim to be 'keeping it real' when they
aren't.. if they were honest then I wouldn't be bothered, Jay-Z, I may not
be his biggest fan but dude is honest and I'll listen to his stuff without
any problems, others aren't as honest or if I'm honest as talented as Jay to
do this...
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TJ Xenos
>I personally cannot understand how you can say Dilated albums are 'pretty
>much bland front to back'.
because neither emcee is really special as far as wordplay/flow/schemes, most
of the rhymes are fairly generic semi-conscious underground battle raps.
>
>I put them close to Gangstarr in terms of consistency
yeah, theyre consistent but the quality level isnt as high. theyre
consistently sub-gangstarr even on ganstarrs worst day.
>I just think Evidence has got one
>of the best voices in the industry right now but again that's personal
>choice.
ugh. youre damn right thats personal choice. IMO he has one of the worst
voices in hiphop. he got some nice beats on their recoreds tho.
Wasteland Drifter
"Noixe, the other Adrock" <djsk...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:53215a09.04050...@posting.google.com...
> > See how people just assume shit??
> >
> > Where have I said I'm better than anyone just coz I think G-Unit are
shit
> > and they are 'rap' not Hip-Hop?
>
> that's not really the point.
>
Well what is the point then?
> > And just because violence is a part of life does that mean that it has
to be
> > glorified? I don't think so. What's so wrong with wanting to distance
> > yourself from people who glorify violence? Not everyone dreams of doing
> > drive-by's and drug deals... and don't wanna have to listen to it 24/7
with
> > the same tales recycled by average emcees.
>
> not everyone dreams of dealing drugs, but a whole mess of people
> really do it.
>
A whole lot of people are gay but I bet you wouldn't buy an album by an
openly homosexual artist...
> > Let me guess... O.C. and De La are 'homos' as well for saying the same
stuff
> > in their music.
>
> first of all..."I'm OC, who are you, I never heard of ya/get out my
> way before I turn into a fucking murderer."
>
Erm yeah... what a great response to 'Time's Up' that is...
> OC and De La (and most other rappers on that ish) have beef with
> fakers. If you front like you have 400 Ferraris and 20 minks and shit,
> you're fakin. Frontin is bad. If you're real, you're real. and OC and
> De La have no beef. On the other hand, you're just bitching because
> people are talkin about violence.
>
The majority of the emcees in question are fakers... plus... why the fuck do
you want to know how much jewelry they have or what cars they are driving?
> > And while I can't say G-Unit are wank without all these misconceptions
about
> > being elitist,etc. , it's totally ok for all of you to attack El-P and
> > Anticon and be elitist in your own way... no doubt the hypocritical
nature
> > of your posts will be missed and some attempt at a 'witty' one liner
will be
> > posted in response...
>
> You're attacking the content, most Anticon and El-P haters are
> attacking the music, which is much more justifiable.
>
> Besides, I like El-P. And Despot. it's all about Despot.
I'm attacking the music... the music is weak... the lyrics are weak... and
as soon as anyone says they like El-P or Anticon you get the whole 'you're
gay' shit and disses because they don't come out with the same shit 90% of
people are doing
---
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Wasteland Drifter
"TJ Xenos" <talv...@aol.comeinureye> wrote in message
> >
> >I personally cannot understand how you can say Dilated albums are 'pretty
> >much bland front to back'.
>
> because neither emcee is really special as far as wordplay/flow/schemes,
most
> of the rhymes are fairly generic semi-conscious underground battle raps.
>
Like I previously said I think Ev is one of the best in terms of his vocals,
lyrically maybe not due to them mainly being battle raps... I think, again
this is personal opinion, that they are both far superior than any G-Unit
emcee or any one in the same 'genre' as G-Unit...
> >
> >I put them close to Gangstarr in terms of consistency
>
> yeah, theyre consistent but the quality level isnt as high. theyre
> consistently sub-gangstarr even on ganstarrs worst day.
>
I disagree to an extent... being even close to Gangstarr is almost
impossible but I think Dilated have dropped 3 dope albums all of which I'll
be listening to in years to come
> >I just think Evidence has got one
> >of the best voices in the industry right now but again that's personal
> >choice.
>
> ugh. youre damn right thats personal choice. IMO he has one of the worst
> voices in hiphop. he got some nice beats on their recoreds tho.
I wish he would produce more on Dilated albums it would improve them but
they seem to be trying to reach as many people as possible with each album
and working with as many people as possible.. I accept he won't be
everyone's cup of tea in terms of vocal style but I think he's dope as fuck,
the raspy voice and arrogance in which he delivers shit impresses me...
noixe!
keep reading.
> > > And just because violence is a part of life does that mean that it has
> to be
> > > glorified? I don't think so. What's so wrong with wanting to distance
> > > yourself from people who glorify violence? Not everyone dreams of doing
> > > drive-by's and drug deals... and don't wanna have to listen to it 24/7
> with
> > > the same tales recycled by average emcees.
> >
> > not everyone dreams of dealing drugs, but a whole mess of people
> > really do it.
> >
>
> A whole lot of people are gay but I bet you wouldn't buy an album by an
> openly homosexual artist...
if he were dope I would. and you talk about makin assumptions.
> > > Let me guess... O.C. and De La are 'homos' as well for saying the same
> stuff
> > > in their music.
> >
> > first of all..."I'm OC, who are you, I never heard of ya/get out my
> > way before I turn into a fucking murderer."
> >
>
> Erm yeah... what a great response to 'Time's Up' that is...
O said that shit. "my world" off jewelz. learn to read.
> > OC and De La (and most other rappers on that ish) have beef with
> > fakers. If you front like you have 400 Ferraris and 20 minks and shit,
> > you're fakin. Frontin is bad. If you're real, you're real. and OC and
> > De La have no beef. On the other hand, you're just bitching because
> > people are talkin about violence.
> >
>
> The majority of the emcees in question are fakers... plus... why the fuck do
> you want to know how much jewelry they have or what cars they are driving?
you don't know that. for damn sure 50 aint fakin. exaggerating maybe, but
he's pretty upfront about his.
and I don't necessarily want to know about jewelery and cars and shit, but the
bottom line is that hip-hop is music and the voice is an instrument. I'd
rather listen to Too $hort talk about bitches on some completely ignant shit
with a smooth style and good voice, than hear any of 100 emcees spit bad battle
rhymes with corny ass voices.
> > > And while I can't say G-Unit are wank without all these misconceptions
> about
> > > being elitist,etc. , it's totally ok for all of you to attack El-P and
> > > Anticon and be elitist in your own way... no doubt the hypocritical
> nature
> > > of your posts will be missed and some attempt at a 'witty' one liner
> will be
> > > posted in response...
> >
> > You're attacking the content, most Anticon and El-P haters are
> > attacking the music, which is much more justifiable.
> >
> > Besides, I like El-P. And Despot. it's all about Despot.
>
> I'm attacking the music... the music is weak... the lyrics are weak... and
> as soon as anyone says they like El-P or Anticon you get the whole 'you're
> gay' shit and disses because they don't come out with the same shit 90% of
> people are doing
what are you talkin about? you've been here what 15 minutes? you don't get
much "you're gay," you get a lot of "that music sucks." which is exactly what
you're saying about 50 etc.
if you're so fuckin underground, go comment on my last post where I drop
knowledge on 15 underground records. what the hell *do* you listen to?
Wasteland Drifter
"noixe!" <"afriedman "@ cellbiology.wustl.eduCATIONTASTESGOOD> wrote in
> > Well what is the point then?
> > Erm yeah... what a great response to 'Time's Up' that is...
>
> O said that shit. "my world" off jewelz. learn to read.
lmao... ok my bad!
>
> > > OC and De La (and most other rappers on that ish) have beef with
> > > fakers. If you front like you have 400 Ferraris and 20 minks and shit,
> > > you're fakin. Frontin is bad. If you're real, you're real. and OC and
> > > De La have no beef. On the other hand, you're just bitching because
> > > people are talkin about violence.
> > >
> >
> > The majority of the emcees in question are fakers... plus... why the
fuck do
> > you want to know how much jewelry they have or what cars they are
driving?
>
> you don't know that. for damn sure 50 aint fakin. exaggerating maybe,
but
> he's pretty upfront about his.
>
> and I don't necessarily want to know about jewelery and cars and shit, but
the
> bottom line is that hip-hop is music and the voice is an instrument. I'd
> rather listen to Too $hort talk about bitches on some completely ignant
shit
> with a smooth style and good voice, than hear any of 100 emcees spit bad
battle
> rhymes with corny ass voices.
>
True... look I'm not saying a bad emcee is good coz he's not talking about
guns, drugs and shit like that... Ignant shit has it's place and if it's
done (as Too $hort can do from time to time) it's funny as hell but don't
tell me they are talking about their real lives... some of it maybe elements
of what they've experienced but most of it is exageration and shit they've
seen in movies...
Ermmm... 'you don't like pussy do you?' purely because I said G-Unit are
shit.... no I don't get the whole 'you're gay' shit!
> if you're so fuckin underground, go comment on my last post where I drop
> knowledge on 15 underground records. what the hell *do* you listen to?
>
already done it... as for what I listen to... at the moment I'm listening to
the new Pete Rock album on constant rotation
noixe!
> guns, drugs and shit like that... Ignant shit has it's place and if it's
> done (as Too $hort can do from time to time) it's funny as hell but don't
> tell me they are talking about their real lives... some of it maybe elements
> of what they've experienced but most of it is exageration and shit they've
> seen in movies...
and I'm sayin the lyrics are only a part of it. if they're saying it well over
a good beat , I'm satisfied.
I just meant you won't hear alot of that in here. not that you personally
don't understand it.
> > if you're so fuckin underground, go comment on my last post where I drop
> > knowledge on 15 underground records. what the hell *do* you listen to?
> >
>
> already done it... as for what I listen to... at the moment I'm listening to
> the new Pete Rock album on constant rotation
>
no doubt, I need to scoop that.
Wasteland Drifter
"noixe!" <"afriedman "@ cellbiology.wustl.eduCATIONTASTESGOOD> wrote in
> > True... look I'm not saying a bad emcee is good coz he's not talking
about
> > guns, drugs and shit like that... Ignant shit has it's place and if it's
> > done (as Too $hort can do from time to time) it's funny as hell but
don't
> > tell me they are talking about their real lives... some of it maybe
elements
> > of what they've experienced but most of it is exageration and shit
they've
> > seen in movies...
>
> and I'm sayin the lyrics are only a part of it. if they're saying it well
over
> a good beat , I'm satisfied.
>
I accept that... I think Luda is off the hook and that probably goes against
everything I've said previously... I just don't like any of the G-Unit
emcees in anyway... although 'How To Rob' is a good track, maybe I just wish
50 would flow like that again...
> > >
> > > what are you talkin about? you've been here what 15 minutes? you
don't
> > get
> > > much "you're gay," you get a lot of "that music sucks." which is
exactly
> > what
> > > you're saying about 50 etc.
> > >
> >
> > Ermmm... 'you don't like pussy do you?' purely because I said G-Unit are
> > shit.... no I don't get the whole 'you're gay' shit!
>
> I just meant you won't hear alot of that in here. not that you personally
> don't understand it.
>
it's not just here... it seems to be everywhere within the Hip-Hop
community... if you're not really listening to the whole 'I'm so fucking
macho it hurts' shit then you get the 'gay' tag... other genres of music
accept people on artistic merits rather than how masculine the artist comes
across
> > > if you're so fuckin underground, go comment on my last post where I
drop
> > > knowledge on 15 underground records. what the hell *do* you listen
to?
> > >
> >
> > already done it... as for what I listen to... at the moment I'm
listening to
> > the new Pete Rock album on constant rotation
> >
>
> no doubt, I need to scoop that.
>
I doubt there will be a better Hip-Hop album this year than the Pete Rock
album... it's solid from beginning to end in my opinion... the MURS and 9th
Wonder album is really good as well but the Pete Rock album beats it just
coz it's so good... check out 'Appreciate' with CL, it's like being
transported back to the early 90's with it's pure dopeness!
noixe!
> everything I've said previously... I just don't like any of the G-Unit
> emcees in anyway... although 'How To Rob' is a good track, maybe I just wish
> 50 would flow like that again...
wow somehow we're on the same page. this is what I was sayin all along. the
logic just breaks down when you diss rappers for their "ignorant content."
that's all I'm saying.
> > > >
> > > > what are you talkin about? you've been here what 15 minutes? you
> don't
> > > get
> > > > much "you're gay," you get a lot of "that music sucks." which is
> exactly
> > > what
> > > > you're saying about 50 etc.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Ermmm... 'you don't like pussy do you?' purely because I said G-Unit are
> > > shit.... no I don't get the whole 'you're gay' shit!
> >
> > I just meant you won't hear alot of that in here. not that you personally
> > don't understand it.
> >
>
> it's not just here... it seems to be everywhere within the Hip-Hop
> community... if you're not really listening to the whole 'I'm so fucking
> macho it hurts' shit then you get the 'gay' tag... other genres of music
> accept people on artistic merits rather than how masculine the artist comes
> across
that's why I don't fuck with other forums.
---Pimp---
> day
> > one...
> >
>
> True but most of the boasting back in the day was just hope dope they were
> as emcees not how much 'bling' they had
"You see, I'm six foot one, and I'm tons of fun
When I dress to a T,
You see, I got more clothes than Muhammad Ali
and I dress so viciously.
I got bodyguards, I got two big cars
That definitely ain't the wack,
I got a Lincoln Continental and a sunfoofed Cadillac.
So after school I take a dip in the pool,
Which is really on the wall,
I got a colour TV, so I can see
The Knicks play basketball. Hear me talk about
Checkbooks, credit cards, mo' money
Than a sucker could ever spend,
But I wouldn't give a sucker or a bum form the Rucker
Not a dime 'til I made it again. Everybody go
Ho-tel, Mo-tel, Whatcha gonna do today? (Say what?)
'Cos I'm a get a fly girl,
Gonna get some spank n' drive off in a def OJ. Everybody go
Ho-tel, Mo-tel, Holiday Inn,
Say if your girl starts actin' up, then you take her friend."
---Pimp---
StephenJ
> > > pissing people off and generally making music that meant something,
yet
> > > having relative success (more so in the States than in Blighty)... 50
> > knows
> > > he can't have massive sales by pissing people off as much as they did.
> >
> > I'd say artists like 50 piss more people off quite a few people -
> mysogyny,
> > glorification of guns and violence, etc. They get slammed in the media
and
> > by critics for that all the time.
> 50 gets the occassional 'oh he glorifys guns' reference but most of the
> people who criticise him for that have also said he's done the best album,
I don't think they are necessarily contradictory, i.e., most classical-music
critics will say Wagner was a first-rank musical genius but at the same time
an awful anti-semite...
> etc. (btw 'In Da Club' dope beat shame it was wasted on 50!)
Well we agree on 50 (%) of it - i liked the beat and the rhymes. ;)
> > I don't recall De La Soul pissing anyone off with "art official
> > intelligence" (except for many hip-hop fans, that is).
> >
>
> I never said De La pissed anyone off... the whole piss people off angle
was
> aimed at the so-called 'gangsta' genre
Ok, fair enough.
> > Oh man. That's where all this modern stuff comes from. IMO they surely
did
> > glamorize it. The other day I listened to 'straight outta' and 'death
> > certificate' for the first time in a few years. These guys aren't just
> > telling stories, they are boasting. Boasting of their physical
> > bad-assedness, boasting of their sexual prowess, etc.
> >
>
> OK I get your point and yes they are using Ice-T and NWA somewhat as 'role
> models'... but if you really listen to 'Straight Outta Compton' and most
> Ice-T/ Ice Cube albums they aren't really saying it's a good lifestyle...
> Ice-T esp (I say that coz I know his stuff better than the others) is
saying
> being a rapper is much better than doing all that shit, where as I don't
> believe G-Unit are doing that... but as with any song it's down to the
> listeners interpretation of it I guess
I agree that there's more "social commentary" in Ice-T's stuff. But i don't
look for that in music. If i want to know more about social conditions on
the streets of compton or about the history of african-americans since
slavery or whatnot i'll read a book or something...
> > And there's nothing wrong with that. Boasting has been part of it since
> day
> > one...
> >
>
> True but most of the boasting back in the day was just hope dope they were
> as emcees not how much 'bling' they had or how many times they had been
shot
I think people always boast about whatever they think will make themselves
look "bigger" in other's eyes. 30 years ago it was one thing, now it's
another.
> > Agree that it is highly predictable, but same is true of De La, Dilated,
> and
> > other backpacker favorites. You know what the themes are going to be
going
> > in to any new joint.
> >
>
> OK this I don't quite get, it's the one point in your post that I really
> couldn't see the angle with... De La, best example in this case, they've
> gone from Potholes to Millie Pulled A Pistol to Stakes Is High to Peer
> Pressure... now all of the songs mentioned along with the rest of the
albums
> they come from deal with totally different shit. I admit that a lot of the
> so-called 'backpack' hip-hop can be predictable in terms of they'll be
> saying something along the lines of 'Hip-Hop is dead' or promoting the 4
> elements but I don't think people like De La or even Dilated can be
classed
> in that
Fair point - i shouldn't have singled out De La so much. They aren't the
best example of the point i was trying to make about the predictability of
'backpack' HH.
> > Puffy had his day, but that was 6-7 years ago. I'm thinking of the
biggest
> > rap hits of the past year - chingy, 50, ludacris, missy, outkast - and
> can't
> > think of an obvious loop sample from any of them...
> >
>
> Chingy... dude is just funny coz of his accent (my opinion and I like the
> guy)...
agree
> Luda... he is sick! Really good emcee in my opinion, let down by
> choice of beat some of the time tho.
agree
>.. 50, just weak simple as... Missy,
> nothing without Timbaland in my opinion...
i think missy is funny and clever, though i don't get the underage kids in
the videos dancing around like 20 year old hos.
> Outkast, DOPE as hell,
I like them too, but think the latest record is overrated. IMO it has 2
fantastic singles and lots of filler...
> > The other poster has a point. It's one thing to say that IYO Nelly is
bad
> > hip-hop. It's elitist to say it isn't hip-hop. Because the essence of
> > elitism is exclusion. Rap is a component of HH so how can rap be
excluded
> > from HH?
> Ok I accept.. maybe it is elitist to say that... it made me think of the
KRS
> lyric 'Rap is something you do, Hip-Hop is something you live'... my point
> though is that people like Nelly do it purely for the money, maybe naively
I
> don't think that some of the artists I've mentioned do do it purely for
the
> cash.
Yeah, we're trying to read motives at this point - can't say i'm necessarily
any better at that than you are. ;)
> > Elitist...And i'm no alterna-hater. It's just that some alternative
bores
> > me. For example, in rock, REM was the equivalent of De La - boring
coffee
> > shop alternative. Eminem 1999 was the equivalent of Nirvana - kick you
in
> > the ass/slap you upside the head alternative. I like the latter. But
it's
> > all rap/hip-hop music.
> >
>
> A little harsh with your description of De La and a little too soft on the
> impact of Em. De La deal with a lot of shit in their music and have
covered
> so many sounds in the music, I can't see the comparison with REM but
that's
> just me... Em in all fairness (and this is coming from someone who loves
> Nirvana) is bigger than Nirvana and his impact will be much longer
> lasting..
Nirvana was pretty big and impactful...
>. Em brought total piss you off music into every household in the
> western world and did it with such ability, Nirvana were more of a "I'm
piss
> ed off here's my pain" type of thing which rock hasn't really got over
> yet.
Yep - impactful.
>.. Em has changed modern music, he may not be the best producer, D12 may
> not be the best group, but we all know when an Eminem album is about to
> drop... got nothing but respect for him, even if I think The Eminem Show
was
> pretty dull...
I've liked all his stuff.
> > You obviously prefer rap music that aims to educate as well as entertain
> > (make money) over rap music that solely seeks to entertain (make money).
> So
> > call the former "good" rap music and the latter "bad" rap music. But
don't
> > say one is HH and the other isn't.
> >
>
> I do prefer something that'll either make me think or give me some insight
> into the artist rather than generic jibberish... they all make money of
this
> shit, I've never said any different, again it's a case of priorities... we
> could all knock out a track based on a old funk loop talking about drugs
and
> guns but could we do something from the heart over a beat that was unique?
I must say i've never lived the culture. I've always listened to HH as a
form of pop music, i.e., for entertainment (whatever makes me groove or
rock, etc.) not for social insight, etc.
> Both have a place in the musical spectrum but I don't think someone
reciting
> the same old stories about drug deals and shooting people should be
> representative of our culture... I mean come on...
Sure, but by the same token how many times do we need to hear about black
empowerment, the 4 components, cultural history and heritage, etc.?
> if all these people
> actually did the shit they said on record then there would hardly be
anyone
> alive in the U.S. plus don't you think the police would be interested in
> what they were 'admitting' to?
Well yes, but 50 and tupac actually did take bullets (and in tupac's case,
actually put a bullet in a policeman). And they stuff they boast and
exaggerate about (how many women they have, how they are gonna bust a cap in
some rival nigga, etc.) is small-time stuff.
Compare to PE on "nation of millions" where they talk about blowing
penitentiaries up, overthrowing the government, overthrowing the FBI, etc.
and they never did any of that. They struck me as guys trying to play at
being Malcolm X but 25 years too late.
BTW, i love "nation.." but purely as a pop record.
mochaspresso
>They aren't for the 'pop market'?? Yeah sure they aren't... continually
>played on MTV, apperances on Top Of The Pops, mainstream media coverage,
>generic R'n'B beats, stereotypical 'gangsta' lyrics that border on
>confrontational but not so much that they would upset the middle class
>Guardian readers too much... that's surely not an attempt at entering the
>pop market!
>
Lloyd Banks was on the radio talking about the sound of the album and
this came up. Angie Martinez asked him if anyone tells them that they
sold out or if it has too much of an R&B sound and he said something
that I thought was interesting. He said that an album is a reflection
of exactly where you were at and where your head was at when you wrote
it and recorded it. He said that 50's first album and some of the
earliest G-Unit stuff was written in South Jamaica so yes, it's going
to sound different and be different from stuff that was written and
recorded when they were living it up and out on tour w/ 50.
I dunno.....if a girl that you met on tour inspired you to write a
song called "Smile", is that really selling out?
-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->
Mochaspresso
Michael Fthenos
> "Bay Way 41510" <ikey...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > as much as it sounds like getting teeth pulled...
>
> It's not as bad as I think you're expecting.
I disagree.
It's as bad as he expects, plus worse.
MF
--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG
Kuahmel Allah
not
patchy at all... it's shit.
<<<<
So you like Dilated's "This Way?"
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/3/kuahmelmusic.htm
http://members.blackplanet.com/Mrfocus
"For God's sake, eat a burger!!!"--Calista Flockhart
"If you plan on getting pregnant, first find a man!!"--Jillian Barberie
Kuahmel Allah
is... we should draw a line between Rap and Hip-Hop... not discriminate
against either (as both need each other to survive)... accept that Rap
artists (ie Jay-Z, G-Unit, etc.) are there totally for the money (nothing
wrong with that if they are honest about it, and hats off to Jay-Z for being
honest about it) and Hip-Hop artists (ie Gangstarr, Dilated, Del, De La,
etc.) are there to 'edutain' and build the whole culture of Hip-Hop (along
with making some cash along the way.) <<<<
<spiked-bat home run (1)> Ahhhhhhhh, SHADDUP!!
Forgot it was baseball season.
---Pimp---
> is... we should draw a line between Rap and Hip-Hop... not discriminate
> against either (as both need each other to survive)... accept that Rap
> artists (ie Jay-Z, G-Unit, etc.) are there totally for the money (nothing
> wrong with that if they are honest about it, and hats off to Jay-Z for
being
> honest about it) and Hip-Hop artists (ie Gangstarr, Dilated, Del, De La,
> etc.) are there to 'edutain' and build the whole culture of Hip-Hop (along
> with making some cash along the way.) <<<<
Biggest pile of shit I've seen on RMHH, and I've seen a lot of shit.
Who uttered this bollocks?
---Pimp---
Kuahmel Allah
>Dope Thug Rap Group #425 are just spittin ignorant shit and how Dope
>"Conscious" Rapper #251 is so much better because they aren't pop,
>only to find out that Dope "
the whole fucking thing is gay. Im down for artists hether they be thug group
#339 (the lox) or conscious rapper #175 (kweli) im not down for homos who try
to segregate and put themselves above others and arent down for supporting all
hiphop. Fiftys a shitload better in this regard big upping kweli than anticon
or whoever trying to distance themselves from g-rap. Violence is as much a
part of life as politics or spirituality or love or whatfuckingever. And
seriously rhymes about drugs, cars and women are a lot more releant to most
people than rhymes about the 4 elements. Hella more people have
scrapped/fucked/driven/done drugs than have rapped/dj/done graf/breakdanced.<<<
Basically....not everyone is living life as a rap insider.