Going platinum now vs. 5-10 years ago
Google Beta User
bozak
Google Beta User wrote:
> Is it the same thing?
1,000,000 records vs. 1,000,000 records...
if you are not talking about money being worth
more back then, yes...
Sumran
> Is it the same thing?
to the rise in internet shopping so that makes a difference.
Google Beta User
Kwaj
I think there are a couple of angles to an appropriate response.
First and foremost - let's talk about publicity. Case in point, Janet
Jackson's last album will go platinum...mainly because it's a Janet album
and also because it's pretty decent. But the Jackson family has had a fair
bit of bad press and I don't think the album was promoted that well. In
pre-P2P days; that album would have went under the radar...without most
people choosing not to shell on the $12 or so, given the lack of fanfare. In
the post-P2P days, file sharing acts as a form of advertising in its own
right. If you have a hot album and regardless of the level at which it is
promoted by your record company; file-sharing will ensure that a good album
gets listened to by the masses and this will eventually trickle through to
sales.
Secondly - let's talk about multiplatinum. I think most people can get
platinum without much effort; and I actually think to go platinum you don't
need a great album these days. To go multiplatinum though these days...you
need your album to be consistently nice. Yes filesharing will ensure a
decent album goes platinum but it also does mean that there are a lot of
people selectively listening to tracks and not trying to buy the whole
thing. For the average individual (average = mass market consumer) to buy an
album these days - an album needs to be pretty good right through. That's
why Usher has will go Diamond (10 times platinum) and Cee-Lo Green did/will
not. In pre-filesharing days a couple of decent tracks might have taken an
album to 5 million status - these days the whole album pretty much needs to
be decent.
Thirdly - let us consider the impact of filesharing on the international
market. Filesharing has enabled pretty much anyone anywhere to be able to
listen to the freshest tracks. There used to be a time when I would only get
to hear a new album by putting it on import once it came out. I am talking
even as late as early-1999. Nowadays, I've heard the new De La Soul album
before it's even dropped and can decide right there. The impact of this is
that good albums are getting international acclaim much more quickly. There
used to be a time when the rest of the world would lag the US market by 18
months - an album would have to drop in the US, make it big in the US before
their record company would give it the push it required somewhere else. This
even applied to succesful artists too. Today a reasonably obscure group can
very quickly get a fanbase outside of the US, without even having
distrubution there. This I would say is a direct result of the internet as a
marketting tool and also the coming of age of filesharing.
"Google Beta User" <maji...@cs.com> wrote in message
news:1105724946.2...@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Google Beta User
My theory is that going for every one album sold now, it probably
would've sold 1.5 to 2 5 or 10 years ago.
Youd be surprised how many people just don't buy CDs any more. Just
going with my circle of friends, I know like 4 heads that used to buy
all the latest shit that rarely by CDs anymore (but still listen to the
music).
Although it's getting harder to download music though, becaue all the
P2P programs are shit now, and most people don't know about binaries.
Chris Zabel
news:1105724946.2...@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Is it the same thing?
For pop acts it seems to be about the same(and under my definition a pop act
is any major label act that gets heavy rotation on radio/MTV). But it's
clearly harder for non-mainstream releases(which most of today's rap falls
into outside of monster acts like Jay Z & Eminem). Mp3s and file sharing
really killed the cd market for the non-diehard fan. It's one of the main
reasons Loud Records folded. A cd sale today is easily equivalent to 2-3 cd
sales 10 years ago. Groups like Mobb Deep would never go plat. today unless
they got lucky with a crossover single.
--
"They tease me now, telling me it was only a dream. But does it matter
whether it was a dream or reality, if the dream made known to me the
truth?" - Dostoevsky
bozak
Google Beta User wrote:
> I'm talking about pre-P2P and CD Burner.
can you really say??? p2p and burning has made some
artists who would have never seen the soundscan
million sellers, and some who are million sellers sell
less...
i dont think there is really an honest way to gauge
it... i think people are supporting the artists they
really like and not paying for shit that they wouldnt
buy anyway, but now those artists actually have a chance
to make new fans and the chance to be bought at a later
time...
like i said, i dont think there is really an accurate way
to gauge it... im sure the riaa will tell us all different...
TJ Xenos
>like i said, i dont think there is really an accurate way
>to gauge it... im sure the riaa will tell us all different...
>
>
of course nothing that comes out of the RIAA really means anything vis a vis
music consumption since riaa figures are strictly sales of the 4 majors in
soundscan stores and totally ignores anything released/marketed/distributed
independently....
T.J. Xenos
"great music is better than average sex" - Merle Haggard
"When I got the music, I got a place to go" - Rancid
"Im in love with rock & roll" - Motorhead
Chris Zabel
news:20050115114044...@mb-m25.aol.com...
> >
> >like i said, i dont think there is really an accurate way
> >to gauge it... im sure the riaa will tell us all different...
> >
> >
>
> of course nothing that comes out of the RIAA really means anything vis a
vis
> music consumption since riaa figures are strictly sales of the 4 majors in
> soundscan stores and totally ignores anything
released/marketed/distributed
> independently....
Soundscan tracks virtually every legitimate new cd sale that is sold via
retail in the US. It's sales figures are accurate for anything with a
barcode, not just stuff from major labels. The only thing that escapes it's
system is direct bootlegs and mixtapes of the kind that Sandbox often sells.
TJ Xenos
>Soundscan tracks virtually every legitimate new cd sale that is sold via
>retail in the US.
including the thousands that dont have barcodes or their item numbers entered
into the soundscan system? It's only relevant to those who are on major labels
or use their distribution channels.
>It's sales figures are accurate for anything with a
>barcode, not just stuff from major labels.
Or stuff sold in non scanning stores.
>The only thing that escapes it's
>system is direct bootlegs and mixtapes of the kind that Sandbox often sells.
or the shitloads of DIY/underground releases that choose not to buy into the
commercial/soundscan system. The fact is theres tons of DIY/independent labels
(NO BARCODES/Independent distribution, etc) that are doing 10 fold what they
were 5 years ago, a span over which the RIAA has supposedly lost sales to the
tune of a percent and a half or somesuch.
quest19...@webtv.net
Grammy acceptance wasn't even televised. Now, they're stabbing kids at
awards shows. Word of mouth was the ticket in the golden era and 250K
sold was quite good for a Hip Hop album. It's a bottom line thing and
mass promotion. I understand that garbage MC T.I. just went platinum.
Everyone knows his "bring 'em out" ad nauseum loop got him over the top
with white kids(who now purchase anywhere from 60%-75% of all Hip Hop
albums). 5-10 years ago would put him against Biggie, Tupac, and that
group and he'd barely be heard. To go platinum is nothing, now one must
go "diamond". Lyrically, Jadakiss is "better" than him and Immortal
Technique is better than just about everybody----again, everybody, but
it's the "push" and payola.
A to the L
>I understand that garbage MC T.I. just went platinum.
>Everyone knows his "bring 'em out" ad nauseum loop got him over the top
>with white kids
complete bollocks...
TI is on his third album, and if anything got him over it was
Rubberband Man from the last album...
PEACH
A to the L
©N¥ikuli, Williåm©
> To go platinum is nothing, now one must go "diamond".
> Lyrically, Jadakiss is "better" than him and Immortal Technique is
> better than just about everybody----again, everybody, but it's the
> "push" and payola.
Really? Everybody?
He has some nice topics, and it's nice to hear a modern political rapper.
Don't get me wrong, I like the guy, but I don't think he's THAT nice. I
honestly don't see how he's better than a Jada or Jigga, just as a rapper. I
don't know that he's "deeper" than either guy, or that his lyrics are
better.
--
Majiin - version舶俺
quest19...@webtv.net
<<complete bollocks.>>
Wrong answer. That "bring 'em out" loop put him over the top.
<<TI is on his third album, and if anything got him over it was
Rubberband Man from the last album.>>
Third album, really? "24s" and "Rubberband Man" didn't help him reach
platinum status. Think it through.
quest19...@webtv.net
<<Really? Everybody?>>
Yes sir.
<<He has some nice topics, and it's nice to hear a modern political
rapper.
Don't get me wrong, I like the guy, but I don't think he's THAT nice. I
honestly don't see how he's better than a Jada or Jigga, just as a
rapper. I don't know that he's "deeper" than either guy, or that his
lyrics are better.>>
Point taken. Just a cursory listen to the overall package, to me anyway,
he's worlds better than Jadakiss or Jigga-boo. And as far as being
"deeper", again, a cursory listen to Technique shows a blind man the
intellect that dude has. I yield to you that who's dope is dependent on
the listener, but, line for line, flow, subject matter....clearly, dude
is better than anyone out.
©N¥ikuli, Williåm©
> I yield to you that who's dope is dependent on the listener, but, line for
line, flow, subject
> matter....clearly, dude is better than anyone out.
Hmm, it's interesting you mentioned topics and also I think just throwing
out is 'subject matter' is a very broad term. I'm not sure I understand how
you're intending to use it here.
Hmm... "Dance With the Devil" vs. "Undying Love"? Just thinking out loud.
--
Majiin - version舶俺
A to the L
maybe I'm picking you up wrong... by 'over the top' I'm taking it you
mean that he finally starting appealing to white kids (the TRL crowd
etc)... and you're saying that Bring Em Out is the track that did
that... again I'll say that Rubberband Man would be the hit that got
him that position last summer...
TJ Xenos
>go "diamond".
because no ones ever gone diamond (fuck double records that sell 5 mill plus)
and theres roughly the same number of plat records year to year?
>but
>it's the "push" and payola.
really? Is that why when i play immortal technique people comment on his
lyrics but say they dont really like his flow and couldnt listen to him for a
stretch so they dont buy his cd? Its because hes not marketed that people dont
buy the record even after they've heard it, how did i not figure that out
TJ Xenos
>Point taken. Just a cursory listen to the overall package, to me anyway,
>he's worlds better than Jadakiss or Jigga-boo.
simpler rhyme schemes and choppy flow equals better emcee?
TJ Xenos
>A to the L says:
><<complete bollocks.>>
>
>Wrong answer. That "bring 'em out" loop put him over the top.
sort of like the la di da di chorus bite put big over the top? Or was it the
mtume sample? Or the kanye beats that put kweli over the top on quality so
people actually listened to his shit?
>
><<TI is on his third album, and if anything got him over it was
>Rubberband Man from the last album.>>
>
>Third album, really? "24s" and "Rubberband Man" didn't help him reach
>platinum status. Think it through.
that most artists reach their best sales not on their first mainstream album
due to there being a period of "getting your name out there"? Em's best selling
album is the marshall mathers, jigga's is his third, pac's is his 4th,
Apocalypse 91 was the best selling PE record IIRC.. I also believe TI has
previously gone gold so its really a case of him getting more established and
selling more copies...
quest19...@webtv.net
<<maybe I'm picking you up wrong... by 'over the top' I'm taking it you
mean that he finally starting appealing to white kids (the TRL crowd
etc)... and you're saying that Bring Em Out is the track that did
that... again I'll say that Rubberband Man would be the hit that got him
that position last summer.>>
Your last two words aren't today. Again, the thread is about going
platinum now or then. I submit that it doesn't much matter today and he
definitely wouldn't have seen platinum status a decade ago. "24s" nor
"Rubberband Man" did nothing to get him platinum status. A Jigga-boo
loop and a corny, Swizz Beatz-sounding beat got him to platinum status
with THIS CD. Yes sir, you picked me up wrong as those same TRLers
didn't get him a plaque with his earlier work.
quest19...@webtv.net
<<Hmm, it's interesting you mentioned topics and also I think just
throwing out is 'subject matter' is a very broad term. I'm not sure I
understand how you're intending to use it here.>>
of his work and the guys you mentioned earlier, at least to me, it's
night and day the he'd eat these guys alive. They wouldn't have anything
to bring to him on the battle tip and his subject matter(or topics) far
and away are "deeper" and more relevant than anything I've ever heard
from them...commercial or mixtape.
<<Hmm... "Dance With the Devil" vs. "Undying Love"? Just thinking out
loud.>>
"Undying Love"? Did he do that on mixtape or is that from another
artist? I have Vols. 1 & 2 and it's definitely not on those. Think
quietly about "Dance With The Devil" and the words to that song. Talk
about "scared straight" and how one deals with the results of one's
actions. Hmmm.....that is interesting.
A to the L
>A to the L says:
><<maybe I'm picking you up wrong... by 'over the top' I'm taking it you
>mean that he finally starting appealing to white kids (the TRL crowd
>etc)... and you're saying that Bring Em Out is the track that did
>that... again I'll say that Rubberband Man would be the hit that got him
>that position last summer.>>
>
>Your last two words aren't today. Again, the thread is about going
>platinum now or then.
nope... you said 'got him over'... in the same way that 'Why' got
Jadakiss over with the TRL crowd, 'Slow Jamz' got Twista over with em
etc...
> "24s" nor
>"Rubberband Man" did nothing to get him platinum status.
nonsense... the Rubberband Man track is the one that got him the TRL
recognition last year - thats the track that 'got him over'
A Jigga-boo
>loop and a corny, Swizz Beatz-sounding beat got him to platinum status
>with THIS CD. Yes sir, you picked me up wrong as those same TRLers
>didn't get him a plaque with his earlier work.
that's not the issue - its about him getting RECOGNITION... which he
did last year...
©N¥ikuli, Williåm©
> NYikuli William wonders:
> <<Hmm, it's interesting you mentioned topics and also I think just
> throwing out is 'subject matter' is a very broad term. I'm not sure I
> understand how you're intending to use it here.>>
>
> Point made as both are synonymous. At any rate, a cursory listen to
> any of his work and the guys you mentioned earlier, at least to me,
> it's night and day the he'd eat these guys alive. They wouldn't have
> anything to bring to him on the battle tip
Huh? The few punchlines from Technique I've heard resort to "gay" and
"faggot" slurs. Big deal, every 10th grader does that. That's why I was
not even going to mention battling. I know we agree it's subjective, but
frankly I'd be SHOCKED if you *really* think Technique'd take Jada or Jigga
in a battle.
> and his subject matter(or topics) far and away are "deeper"
What do you mean by that?
> and more relevant than anything I've ever heard from them...commercial or
mixtape.
"Relevant"? Are relationships, girls, talking about where you grew up & your
neighborhood, your current lifestyle, etc relevant?
> <<Hmm... "Dance With the Devil" vs. "Undying Love"? Just thinking out
> loud.>>
>
> "Undying Love"? Did he do that on mixtape or is that from another
> artist? I have Vols. 1 & 2 and it's definitely not on those. Think
> quietly about "Dance With The Devil" and the words to that song. Talk
> about "scared straight" and how one deals with the results of one's
> actions. Hmmm.....that is interesting.
Very similar songs. "Undying Love" is from one of the top 5 'mainstream'
hip-hop artists of all time, and I am legit surprised you haven't heard it.
Similar track to "Dance With The Devil" in intent, but accomplishes it's
purpose more subtly yet just as effectively.
"Dance with The Devil" is the directors cut ending of Butterfly Effect and
"Undying Love" is the regular one.
P2P it (Undying Love), and tell me what you think.
--
Majiin - version舶俺
Proven nobodies should not be allowed to make statements about proven
somebodies. I don't listen to nobodies. Guys obviously
are going to talk, but I only listen to somebodies." Shaquille O'Neal
quest19...@webtv.net
<<nope... you said 'got him over'... in the same way that 'Why' got
Jadakiss over with the TRL crowd, 'Slow Jamz' got Twista over with em
etc.>>
Yep. And one half of your other point STILL has yet to hit platinum and
the other one was riding the bus, wishing he could be where he's at
today while being stuck in a contract dispute, dissing his daughter.
<<nonsense... the Rubberband Man track is the one that got him the TRL
recognition last year - thats the track that 'got him over'>>
It's perfect sense, you failed to see it. The thread is concerning going
platinum now as opposed to a decade ago. If you stay with that, then the
fog clears. Him going platinum today, after 3 albums deep says more
about his work/marketing than anything else.
<<that's not the issue - its about him getting RECOGNITION... which he
did last year.>>
See above. And anyone with cable saw him debut nationally with "24s".
quest19...@webtv.net
<<Huh? The few punchlines from Technique I've heard resort to "gay" and
"faggot" slurs. Big deal, every 10th grader does that. That's why I was
not even going to mention battling. I know we agree it's subjective, but
frankly I'd be SHOCKED if you *really* think Technique'd take Jada or
Jigga in a battle.>>
There you have it, if all you heard was a "few punchlines", I can see
why you say the rest of this. Yes, I KNOW Technique would hand both of
them their @sses in a battle. On the other hand, they'd have prolems
with Eyedea, Blind Fury, Chino XL, Canibus. That would be a white-wash
of those two.
<<What do you mean by that?>>
Exactly what it says. Overall, those two dudes content is essentially
thuggery and a lifestyle hardly ANY of their fans can ever relate to or
attain.
<<"Relevant"? Are relationships, girls, talking about where you grew up
& your neighborhood, your current lifestyle, etc relevant?>>
Sure they are. Your point....as they relate to Jadakiss and Jigga-boo?
<<Very similar songs. "Undying Love" is from one of the top 5
'mainstream' hip-hop artists of all time, and I am legit surprised you
haven't heard it. Similar track to "Dance With The Devil" in intent, but
accomplishes it's purpose more subtly yet just as effectively.
"Dance with The Devil" is the directors cut ending of Butterfly Effect
and "Undying Love" is the regular one.>>
The "Dance..." I'm referring to is on "Revolutionary vol. 1". I don't
think we're talking about the same song if it was in "The Butterfly
Effect".
quest19...@webtv.net
<<simpler rhyme schemes and choppy flow equals better emcee?>>
Or maybe words that don't even rhyme...not even close, but stick those
in the lyrics anyway.
quest19...@webtv.net
<<because no ones ever gone diamond (fuck double records that sell 5
mill plus) and theres roughly the same number of plat records year to
year?>>
Alright then, your point being? Again, to just go platinum is a new
thing for Hip Hop, but now, since we're so saturated it's not like this
is 1989 and going platinum WAS newsworthy. That's my point.
<<really? Is that why when i play immortal technique people comment on
his lyrics but say they dont really like his flow and couldnt listen to
him for a stretch so they dont buy his cd? Its because hes not marketed
that people dont buy the record even after they've heard it, how did i
not figure that out>>
To say that they "don't know Hip Hop" is insulting, so, I won't do that.
But what I definitely will submit is that to listen to him, line for
line, countered with anyone currently rammed down our throats from
MTV/BET or radio, it's just hard for me to see how you can't get enough
of Immortal Technique over a Chingy, Worst, or Ludacris.
quest19...@webtv.net
<<sort of like the la di da di chorus bite put big over the top? Or was
it the mtume sample? Or the kanye beats that put kweli over the top on
quality so people actually listened to his shit?>>
It is "hooks", not skills necessarily that get you over the top. Your
point as it relates to going platinum NOW as opposed to a decade ago.
It's formulaic and that's the selling point, skills are and added
bonus...assuming the artist has any.
<<that most artists reach their best sales not on their first mainstream
album due to there being a period of "getting your name out there"? Em's
best selling album is the marshall mathers, jigga's is his third, pac's
is his 4th, Apocalypse 91 was the best selling PE record IIRC.. I also
believe TI has previously gone gold so its really a case of him getting
more established and selling more copies.>>
Whoo-who, a star for TJ. That's very true, MOST do get a certain amount
status later in their careers. And again, understanding how the machine
is at work, where it was running away from Hip Hop a decade or two ago,
the platinum status thing says nothing really. TI and platinum
status...you know yourself that that's a joke if this were 1994. You
kill your point trying to justify it given the history of charts and Hip
Hop.
©N¥ikuli, Williåm©
> There you have it, if all you heard was a "few punchlines",
Of all the songs I've heard (from both albums) I haven't heard him spit a
line that made me go "Damn!".
> I can see why you say the rest of this. Yes, I KNOW Technique would hand
both of
> them their @sses in a battle. On the other hand, they'd have prolems
> with Eyedea, Blind Fury, Chino XL, Canibus. That would be a white-wash
> of those two.
As in the above would kill Jigga and Jada?
> <<What do you mean by that?>>
>
> Exactly what it says. Overall, those two dudes content is essentially
> thuggery and a lifestyle hardly ANY of their fans can ever relate to
> or attain.
Huh? As opposed to raping your mums' or conctocting conspiracy theories?
Purely in terms of 'speaking to you' or many people being able to relate
too, I'd be hard pressed to find a better rapper ever than Jay-Z in that
regard.
You're own argument works against you since most people would see Immortal
Technique as a kook.
> <<"Relevant"? Are relationships, girls, talking about where you grew
> up & your neighborhood, your current lifestyle, etc relevant?>>
>
> Sure they are. Your point....as they relate to Jadakiss and Jigga-boo?
You said the stuff they rap around is not very relevant. I list a few of the
things off the top of my head that Jigga and Jada rap about, and lo and
behold, you say it's "relevant". You're not being consistent..
> <<Very similar songs. "Undying Love" is from one of the top 5
> 'mainstream' hip-hop artists of all time, and I am legit surprised you
> haven't heard it. Similar track to "Dance With The Devil" in intent,
> but accomplishes it's purpose more subtly yet just as effectively.
> "Dance with The Devil" is the directors cut ending of Butterfly Effect
> and "Undying Love" is the regular one.>>
>
> The "Dance..." I'm referring to is on "Revolutionary vol. 1".
I know.
> I don't think we're talking about the same song if it was in "The
Butterfly Effect".
You've never heard "Undying Love"?
mochaspresso
>
>To say that they "don't know Hip Hop" is insulting, so, I won't do that.
>But what I definitely will submit is that to listen to him, line for
>line, countered with anyone currently rammed down our throats from
>MTV/BET or radio, it's just hard for me to see how you can't get enough
>of Immortal Technique over a Chingy, Worst, or Ludacris.
You're so narrow and tunnel visioned. Why does everything have to
be compared w/ something else w/ you?
Sometimes people purchase music for different reasons. People like
different styles for different reasons. I don't think Chingy and
Ludadris should be compared to Immortal Technique line for line.
Those are different albums made for different reasons. I think
"Revolutionary...." is good but from a "danceable hip-hop"
perspective, Luda's "Chicken..." is better. Conversely, I think
Chingy and Luda are good, but from a lyrical perscpective Immortal
Technique is better. When I'm in the mood for lyrics, I play IT.
When I'm in the mood to dance, I play Luda or Chingy.
I'll start comparing Technique and Luda line by line when he tries his
hand at making a danceable track or two. When he comes w/ a club
banger mixed whatever "message" he has, then I'll start comparing
Technique and Luda line for line and vice-versa.
Personally, I think it's completely ridiculous that people think that
the two (the funky and the message) can't go hand in hand.
-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->
Mochaspresso
quest19...@webtv.net
<<You're so narrow and tunnel visioned. Why does everything have to
be compared w/ something else w/ you?>>
Do you read to respond or do you actually think before you respond? This
bit of lunacy, amazingly from you of all people, is nowhere close to the
truth. Hip Hop is(or should be, I hope) bigger than your Disney-variety
spin on it and I've never once pushed anyone to take my opinions as law.
You're reaching here, ma'am.
<<Sometimes people purchase music for different reasons. People like
different styles for different reasons. I don't think Chingy and
Ludadris should be compared to Immortal Technique line for line. Those
are different albums made for different reasons. I think
"Revolutionary...." is good but from a "danceable hip-hop" perspective,
Luda's "Chicken..." is better. Conversely, I think Chingy and Luda are
good, but from a lyrical perscpective Immortal Technique is better. When
I'm in the mood for lyrics, I play IT. When I'm in the mood to dance, I
play Luda or Chingy.>>
Respectfully mochaspresso, "you think"? I know people buy what they like
and this thread is about going platinum. I submit that it's now
overrated because skills(the whole sh*t---not just something danceable)
has given way to the mundane. Is there even such a thing as "danceable
Hip Hop"? If that's the case, Vanilla Ice was that and it never was
categorized they way you say in 2005. See, I think this is where the
confusion is. Isn't ALL simply Hip Hop? If that's changed, I'll stay
with the what it was defined as circa 1989 when it was all-encompassing.
To say Technique doesn't have the total package having heard Chingy and
them first ad nauseum is simply hilarious. I yield that people buy what
they buy.
<<I'll start comparing Technique and Luda line by line when he tries his
hand at making a danceable track or two. When he comes w/ a club banger
mixed whatever "message" he has, then I'll start comparing Technique and
Luda line for line and vice-versa.>>
Point made, and one I reply to by saying let's simply roll with
instrumentals then. Talk about narrow-minded. Last I checked, Hip Hop
music encompassed beats AND rhymes. If that has changed, I'll take a hit
for not knowing.
<<Personally, I think it's completely ridiculous that people think that
the two (the funky and the message) can't go hand in hand.>>
Again, I think the narrow-mindedness emanate from your end because to
think anything less than this IS ridiculous. Again beat AND rhymes AND
mixing AND scratching. Personally, I think it's hilarious and sad that
people seem to have abandoned the root of what made the whole thing
funky---the result, a ton of cloned wack rappers. Pity.
quest19...@webtv.net
<<Of all the songs I've heard (from both albums) I haven't heard him
spit a line that made me go "Damn!".>>
Wow! That is saying something. Well here's a real doozy, I'm still
waiting on a line or hook or bar---anything that would make me go "oh,
rewind that" coming from Jigga-boo or Jadakiss.
<<As in the above would kill Jigga and Jada?>>
One can hear the difference. Yes sir, as the above would hand them their
heads.
<<Huh? As opposed to raping your mums' or conctocting conspiracy
theories?>>
Hmmm...did Cam'ron's allegation upon his debut about having relations
with a family member be a conspiracy theory or marketing tool? How about
our government aiding non-democratic regimes? Knowing these thing are a
bit more tangible than kids in the inner-city drooling over living in
the Hamptons(assuming they know where it is) and the like.
<<Purely in terms of 'speaking to you' or many people being able to
relate too, I'd be hard pressed to find a better rapper ever than Jay-Z
in that regard.>>
This is where we respecfully disagree because there are plenty that are
better than him as we speak. I've often said, and history bears this
out, dude got over simply on the backs of two dead guys.
<<You're own argument works against you since most people would see
Immortal Technique as a kook.>>
Wrong answer. The stuff I said cements my view as to why going platinum
today is overrated and how much more interest would go to Technique.
He'd be seen as a mix between some of Hip Hop's greats.
<<You said the stuff they rap around is not very relevant. I list a few
of the things off the top of my head that Jigga and Jada rap about, and
lo and behold, you say it's "relevant". You're not being consistent.>>
Respectfully, I'm still waiting on those "few things" because hearing
them since they've been out, it's the same thugging and balling...two
subjects most kids can't attain and are not ready for the consequences
of the other one.
<<Very similar songs. "Undying Love" is from one of the top 5
'mainstream' hip-hop artists of all time, and I am legit surprised you
haven't heard it. Similar track to "Dance With The Devil" in intent, but
accomplishes it's purpose more subtly yet just as effectively. "Dance
with The Devil" is the directors cut ending of Butterfly Effect and
"Undying Love" is the regular one.>>
I stay abreast of the mainstream as well...which is why I hold such a
hardline. No, I haven't heard it. That is trivia indeed...what Top 5
person are you referring to?
<<You've never heard "Undying Love"?>>
No sir, I haven't. Which is why I asked you was this on a mixtape.
Jennashaw85
>instrumentals then. Talk about narrow-minded. Last I checked, Hip Hop
>music encompassed beats AND rhymes.
I don't think instrumentals can be viewed in isolation, certainly not in this
instance. Agreeing with most of Mocha's thoughts, it could also be said that a
Luda beat is going to be much different than an Immortal Technique beat. If
you take them in isolation and say one is doper, you're again comparing two
different, unrelated beats. I'd compare IT beats to those of another
'conscious' NY artist, not to Luda's choice of instrumentals. Luda and IT
can't be adressed in the same breath because they're miles apart. I think IT
is a better artist, but I'd say he's better than Nas, for example.
Another thing, you compared only recently a 'mainstream', commercially-viable
artist to Mr. Lif (was it Ja Rule??). Two artists that again are polar
opposites.
Google Beta User
>hardline. No, I haven't heard it. That is trivia indeed...what Top 5
>person are you referring to?
"Undying Love" is a story that I think is similar to, but that works
better than "Dance With The Devil", and it is by a mainstream artist.
I'm surprised you haven't heard the song, I legit would like to get
your thoughts on it. I can send it to you. It's by Nas.
TJ Xenos
>things off the top of my head that Jigga and Jada rap about, and lo and
>behold, you say it's "relevant". You're not being consistent..
he didnt acknowledge those as being topics jigga or jada rap about becasue they
only rap about money drugs and women, didnt you know? Despite the vast
collection of jay-z albums I (and probably you) have, quest is the ultimate
arbiter of what their rhymes are about...
TJ Xenos
>It is "hooks", not skills necessarily that get you over the top.
as opposed to when it was all about having your band replac chic? Or sampling
the message for check yoself?
>Your
>point as it relates to going platinum NOW as opposed to a decade ago.
Juicy was 11 years ago. Hypnotize was 9.
>It's formulaic and that's the selling point, skills are and added
>bonus...assuming the artist has any.
Ok to play this a different way, thats why 50 blew the fuck up with wanksta?
relatively unknown emcee, unknown producer, no obvious sample, signed to shady
off the strength of that single and becomes the biggest rapper on the planet.
How bout my name is? How bout all the george clinton samples on the chronic?
How bout the fucking james brown samples circa 88-89 NYC?
>And again, understanding how the machine
>is at work, where it was running away from Hip Hop a decade or two ago,
>the platinum status thing says nothing really.
Is it a decade or is it two? If you wanna go with two you're gonna get some
consistency because then you go back to when nobody went plat and everything
was scattershot but then you have to concede a lot of golden age artists.
>TI and platinum
>status...you know yourself that that's a joke if this were 1994.
Why? Why is TI a joke and doggystyle not? Why isnt too $hort? How many
copies did wackass group home sell in 94?
It's really easy to play this "shit wasnt wack 10 years ago" game when it's
beyond simple to pull out current albums and their sales off the current
billboard, but theres no comparable archive with total sales for 1994 released
albums.
>You
>kill your point trying to justify it given the history of charts and Hip
>Hop.
Which is? Other than that generally more people like/listen to/buy hiphop
nowadays and therefore it sells more copies and thus is more likely to appear
on the charts? I dont have the last 20 years of billboard back issues in front
of me to pull out trends and/or evidence...
TJ Xenos
>Hip Hop"?
"club music". The typical sounding top 40 r&b/hiphop station nonsense that 40%
of these dickhead djs spin for teens and twentysomethings.
>If that's the case, Vanilla Ice was that and it never was
>categorized they way you say in 2005.
So because there was little enough diversity back then that everything could
fit under one banner there is no need to define it as multiple groups now?
> Isn't ALL simply Hip Hop?
correct.
>If that's changed, I'll stay
>with the what it was defined as circa 1989 when it was all-encompassing.
hardness and club jams werent really aspects then. It was party jams and
bragging about your rhyming instead of your hardness. Those are much less
prominent now, especially as compared to the former.
>To say Technique doesn't have the total package having heard Chingy and
>them first ad nauseum is simply hilarious.
neither of them do. Chingy's deficiencies are covered up by what he tries to
do, which also happens to be what sells. Immortal techniques strengths are in
general underappreciated and his weaknesses are in areas that currently
translate into spins, sales and dollars.
>
>Point made, and one I reply to by saying let's simply roll with
>instrumentals then. Talk about narrow-minded. Last I checked, Hip Hop
>music encompassed beats AND rhymes. If that has changed, I'll take a hit
>for not knowing.
>
The point your making is that despite IT covering more political topics and
being "better lyrically", his beats and his flow arent all there as far as
people are concerned so basically you're turnign the argument into one of which
aspect of being an emcee is more important.
>Again beat AND rhymes AND
>mixing AND scratching. Personally, I think it's hilarious and sad that
>people seem to have abandoned the root of what made the whole thing
>funky---the result, a ton of cloned wack rappers.
HUH? I think ludacris is a lot funkier sounding that IT.... And beats and
rhymes and mixing and scratching is definitely whats up. So long as we
acknowledge rhymes means "rhymes". As in the flow, scheme, word selection, etc
and not "rhymes about topics quest considers appropriate". The tons of
clones comes from two things, one there being tons and tons of emcees so its
harder to stand out, and second one not familiarizing themself with the emcees
to know their differences.
A to the L
>Point made, and one I reply to by saying let's simply roll with
>instrumentals then. Talk about narrow-minded. Last I checked, Hip Hop
>music encompassed beats AND rhymes. If that has changed, I'll take a hit
>for not knowing.
but why does a charcater like Biz or Digital Underground or Doug E
Fresh get seemingly universal love but a cat like Chingy or Luda (who
are in effect - the Biz or Doug of this era - they make PARTY music)
gets none from yourself?
as for Immortal Technique...
Immortal Technique = a concious Chino XL
great lyrics, but at many times a forced delivery...
end of story...
mochaspresso
>mochaspresso says:
><<You're so narrow and tunnel visioned. Why does everything have to
>be compared w/ something else w/ you?>>
>
>Do you read to respond or do you actually think before you respond? This
>bit of lunacy, amazingly from you of all people, is nowhere close to the
>truth. Hip Hop is(or should be, I hope) bigger than your Disney-variety
>spin on it and I've never once pushed anyone to take my opinions as law.
>You're reaching here, ma'am.
>
You just seem so fixated on Immortal Technique. He's a good rapper.
I like him but like everybody in this game, he has his strengths and
his weaknesses. Lyrically he's better than Luda....but Luda has
better flow and delivery, imo. Luda also puts on a very good live
show. Luda is actually closer to the truest definition of an MC.
(In my golden age, an MC was also the cat that picked up the
microphone and got the party rocking. People talk so much about all
that was forgotten from the golden age. Well, what about that
apsect?)
>
>Respectfully mochaspresso, "you think"? I know people buy what they like
>and this thread is about going platinum. I submit that it's now
>overrated because skills(the whole sh*t---not just something danceable)
>has given way to the mundane. Is there even such a thing as "danceable
>Hip Hop"?
Yes, Luda and Chingy are fine examples.
>If that's the case, Vanilla Ice was that and it never was
>categorized they way you say in 2005. See, I think this is where the
>confusion is. Isn't ALL simply Hip Hop? If that's changed, I'll stay
>with the what it was defined as circa 1989 when it was all-encompassing.
>To say Technique doesn't have the total package having heard Chingy and
>them first ad nauseum is simply hilarious. I yield that people buy what
>they buy.
>
It wasn't all encompassing back in 1989. Folks forget that we had
Will Smith and then we had NWA. We had Rakim and we had Coolio. We
had Ice T and we had Heavy D. We had Public Enemy and we had 2 Live
Crew. It's all hip-hop but there were different styles and modes even
back then.
><<I'll start comparing Technique and Luda line by line when he tries his
>hand at making a danceable track or two. When he comes w/ a club banger
>mixed whatever "message" he has, then I'll start comparing Technique and
>Luda line for line and vice-versa.>>
>
>Point made, and one I reply to by saying let's simply roll with
>instrumentals then. Talk about narrow-minded. Last I checked, Hip Hop
>music encompassed beats AND rhymes. If that has changed, I'll take a hit
>for not knowing.
>
Hip-hop encompasses beats and rhymes and voice and delivery and style
and performance and many other things too numerous to mention.
All those different factors is why Biz could make a song called
"Pickin Boogers" and no one said it's wack when it actuallly was if
you're honest enough to admit it. They didn't sit around comparing
Biz to Kane or say that Biz was a bum mc w/ no substance.
><<Personally, I think it's completely ridiculous that people think that
>the two (the funky and the message) can't go hand in hand.>>
>
>Again, I think the narrow-mindedness emanate from your end because to
>think anything less than this IS ridiculous. Again beat AND rhymes AND
>mixing AND scratching. Personally, I think it's hilarious and sad that
>people seem to have abandoned the root of what made the whole thing
>funky---the result, a ton of cloned wack rappers. Pity.
As opposed to a ton of cloned "dope" ones?
quest19...@webtv.net
<<I don't think instrumentals can be viewed in isolation, certainly not
in this instance. Agreeing with most of Mocha's thoughts, it could also
be said that a Luda beat is going to be much different than an Immortal
Technique beat. If you take them in isolation and say one is doper,
you're again comparing two different, unrelated beats. I'd compare IT
beats to those of another 'conscious' NY artist, not to Luda's choice of
instrumentals. Luda and IT can't be adressed in the same breath because
they're miles apart. I think IT is a better artist, but I'd say he's
better than Nas, for example.>>
Yes ma'am and that's my point to mochaspresso. To her, it's a danceable
thing. To me, it's KRS-One's thought: "can you rock a party AND wake up
your people". I understand clearly that everyone may not be of that
mindset for entertainment. Personally, I like edutainment and we're
lacking woefully any balance on radio/video...which is why I hold a
hardline.
<<Another thing, you compared only recently a 'mainstream',
commercially-viable artist to Mr. Lif (was it Ja Rule??). Two artists
that again are polar opposites.>>
Look at the header, it states platinum now versus a decade ago. You
actually have to roll with the "now" artists to stay with the spirit of
the title as most Hip Hop acts 10 years ago were just beginning to taste
platinum status. Remember, SoundScan came out the exact same time as
"Efil4zaggin" did and "numbers" weren't as bottom line as they are now.
quest19...@webtv.net
<<he didnt acknowledge those as being topics jigga or jada rap about
becasue they only rap about money drugs and women, didnt you know?
Despite the vast collection of jay-z albums I (and probably you) have,
quest is the ultimate arbiter of what their rhymes are about.>>
Dude...decrease your cynicism. The pain must be excruciating.
quest19...@webtv.net
<<as opposed to when it was all about having your band replac chic? Or
sampling the message for check yoself?>>
Even the last song had a "Message". And again, it almost all sounds the
same. The opposition would be asking too much....like a little more
balance to the equation.
<<Juicy was 11 years ago. Hypnotize was 9.>>
Two songs from the same artist...again, your point? We're talking then
and now, keep up.
<<Ok to play this a different way, thats why 50 blew the fuck up with
wanksta? relatively unknown emcee, unknown producer, no obvious sample,
signed to shady off the strength of that single and becomes the biggest
rapper on the planet. How bout my name is? How bout all the george
clinton samples on the chronic? How bout the fucking james brown samples
circa 88-89 NYC?>>
No sir, let's stay with the spirit of the thread....that's part of the
problem, all the side-posting. It's going platinum then and now. That's
the way it should be played.
<<Is it a decade or is it two? If you wanna go with two you're gonna get
some consistency because then you go back to when nobody went plat and
everything was scattershot but then you have to concede a lot of golden
age artists.>>
You can answer that first question by reading the header. With that out
of the way, in either earlier era, MANY acts were not reaching platinum
status...think it through and simply remember back.
<<Why? Why is TI a joke and doggystyle not? Why isnt too $hort? How many
copies did wackass group home sell in 94?>>
Because he's TI, for starters, that's why. Snoop Dogg had one of the
most highly anticipated(even that phrase is a beat up dead horse)
releases in Hip Hop history...and you use TI? Please. Too Short, I don't
think, has never reached platinum...he IS history and TI will be a
footnote. Group Home didn't sell as it relates to today's bottom line.
<<It's really easy to play this "shit wasnt wack 10 years ago" game when
it's beyond simple to pull out current albums and their sales off the
current billboard, but theres no comparable archive with total sales for
1994 released albums.>>
I never implied that, you're clearly reaching here. But given the fact
that at least in 1994, you still had some balance and skills were still
in demand...again, you throw TI in there? Please.
<<Which is? Other than that generally more people like/listen to/buy
hiphop nowadays and therefore it sells more copies and thus is more
likely to appear on the charts? I dont have the last 20 years of
billboard back issues in front of me to pull out trends and/or
evidence.>>
That's the irony, more balance and a little of everything and not being
appreciated through sales and NOW, it's all cookie-cutter based on the
bottom line and a demographic that simply wasn't buying the music now
make up the majority of the sales. Think it through TJ. I don't have the
numbers either, however, your memory should serve you better.
quest19...@webtv.net
<<"club music". The typical sounding top 40 r&b/hiphop station nonsense
that 40% of these dickhead djs spin for teens and twentysomethings.>>
Oh, TRL/106-type music. I got you. Thanks for the clarification.
<<So because there was little enough diversity back then that everything
could fit under one banner there is no need to define it as multiple
groups now?>>
Are you asking or informing? If it's the former, it's all Hip Hop. If
it's the latter, the categorization is the problem.
<<hardness and club jams werent really aspects then. It was party jams
and bragging about your rhyming instead of your hardness. Those are much
less prominent now, especially as compared to the former.>>
I disagree. Hardness didn't equate to "gangsta" and it didn't dominate
the radio and video. There are too many club/party anthem(WITH dances to
go with them) to name. Your "history" is failing you here as the point
you're trying to make has given way to this thug thing.
<<neither of them do. Chingy's deficiencies are covered up by what he
tries to do, which also happens to be what sells. Immortal techniques
strengths are in general underappreciated and his weaknesses are in
areas that currently translate into spins, sales and dollars.>>
If you say so. I'd say if Technique worked with Track Starz and Chingy
worked with Southpaw or Beat Bandits, the latter's work would still come
out wack. Ultimately, the DAT has to be accompanied by fire vocals....of
which even you know the latter lacks.
<<The point your making is that despite IT covering more political
topics and being "better lyrically", his beats and his flow arent all
there as far as people are concerned so basically you're turnign the
argument into one of which aspect of being an emcee is more important.>>
Wrong answer as I've said time and again, it's beats and rhymes and how
the MC rides a beat. If the MC is diverse all the better the song should
come out.
<<HUH? I think ludacris is a lot funkier sounding that IT.... And beats
and rhymes and mixing and scratching is definitely whats up. So long as
we acknowledge rhymes means "rhymes". As in the flow, scheme, word
selection, etc and not "rhymes about topics quest considers
appropriate". The tons of clones comes from two things, one there
being tons and tons of emcees so its harder to stand out, and second one
not familiarizing themself with the emcees to know their differences.>>
I see. I think Technique has him beat, hands down. The "rhymes I
consider" line is your obsession, I say, hear the MC and it's like night
and day. All the rest, I roll with you on. If Technique doesn't stand
out amongst the deluge...it's over for the MC as we know it. Which takes
me back to the production kick many in our collective are on....let's
just roll with beats only and throw the wack rapper back into the water.
mochaspresso
>
>Yes ma'am and that's my point to mochaspresso. To her, it's a danceable
>thing. To me, it's KRS-One's thought: "can you rock a party AND wake up
>your people". I understand clearly that everyone may not be of that
>mindset for entertainment. Personally, I like edutainment and we're
>lacking woefully any balance on radio/video...which is why I hold a
>hardline.
How many people do you know who have actually been shot? (...outside
your military experience, that is.) Sadly, so far I've come to know
six. And they were all under the age of 13.
Have you ever thought that maybe 50 is waking you up to the fact that
there are some young people out there that relate to his story of
surviving gunshot wounds because they themselves or someone they knew
did?
I'm not saying that 50 is for the kids or that he's appropriate for
young people. I'm saying that everybody has a story and everybody's
story isn't the same. Maybe that's what hip-hop as a whole and in all
it's forms, good and bad, is supposed to wake us all up to?
A to the L
><<Why? Why is TI a joke and doggystyle not? Why isnt too $hort? How many
>copies did wackass group home sell in 94?>>
>
>Because he's TI, for starters, that's why.
ah, a reasoned argument... many would surmise that you're only picking
on TI now because he used a Jay-Z sample in a track... why weren't you
dissing him when he was working with the Neptunes on his first album,
or killing the airwaves with Twista and Mack 10 last year?
How much TI have you actually heard? It seems you've dumped him in the
bucket labelled 'dirty south artists don't say shit' and moved on...
>Snoop Dogg had one of the
>most highly anticipated(even that phrase is a beat up dead horse)
>releases in Hip Hop history...and you use TI?
TI's release was HEAVILY anticipated in the southern market where his
primary fanbase is - don't get it twisted... I agree that its not near
the degree of a Doggystyle, but many were looking forward to seeing
how TI came on the 3rd joint, post-beef with Luda and Flip etc...
>Please. Too Short, I don't
>think, has never reached platinum...he IS history and TI will be a
>footnote.
and? so will Immortal Technique... so will 7L and Esoteric, so will
Styles P and Sheek, so will Remy Martin... and?
><<It's really easy to play this "shit wasnt wack 10 years ago" game when
>it's beyond simple to pull out current albums and their sales off the
>current billboard, but theres no comparable archive with total sales for
>1994 released albums.>>
>
>I never implied that, you're clearly reaching here. But given the fact
>that at least in 1994, you still had some balance
um... in 1994 everyone wanted to wear Gucci or be in the mafia...
that's ALL the balance there was...
>and skills were still
>in demand...again, you throw TI in there? Please.
hey Doggystyle came out in 94 and went platinum of Dre hype... I don't
think Snoop is a particularly skilled rhymer at all...
this is the problem with picking PIECES of an argument to focus on...
you mention that skills were still in demand in ANY era, and for every
Rakim I'll give you a Biz, for every Nas I'll give you a Wyclef, for
every Immortal Technique I'll give you a Lil Wayne... ENJOYMENT is
what's in demand first, everything else comes second...
A to the L
maybe so...but largely I think that many people just don't want to be
preached to while they're getting they're grind on... no matter WHAT
their age...
A to the L
>If you say so. I'd say if Technique worked with Track Starz and Chingy
>worked with Southpaw or Beat Bandits, the latter's work would still come
>out wack. Ultimately, the DAT has to be accompanied by fire vocals....of
>which even you know the latter lacks.
BIZ MARKIE
DOUG E FRESH
EPMD
AUDIO 2
there's four artists for starters, who can hardly be accused of having
'fire' vocals, and still get universal love and respect...
Jennashaw85
>Yes ma'am and that's my point to mochaspresso. To her, it's a danceable
>thing.
She didn't say that Hip-Hop is a 'danceable thing'. She said that sometimes
she likes to get down, and sometimes likes to get deep. Hip-Hop can cater for
both needs but most artists, *certainly* not IT, don't provide both needs in
coexistence. When was the last time you heard IT smash up the dancefloor?? On
that note, there's a difference between what people want to hear in the club
and what they want to vibe to at home. I go out to get my dance on, not to
hear of the woes of 'Harlem Streets'. That's for home. When I'm out, I wanna
hear 2Pac, Biggie, Luda, LL, etc. but when I'm at home RV2 suits me just
fine...
>Personally, I like edutainment
Firstly, not all people like 'edutainment'. In fact, it's pretty safe to say
that most kids under 25 *don't*. Secondly, I think 'edutainment' is somewhat
of an oxymoron. Sabac might enlighten you with his conspiracy theories, but
that knowledge isn't gonna land you a degree or a job...
><<Another thing, you compared only recently a 'mainstream',
>commercially-viable artist to Mr. Lif (was it Ja Rule??). Two artists
>that again are polar opposites.>>
>
>Look at the header, it states platinum now versus a decade ago. You
>actually have to roll with the "now" artists to stay with the spirit of
>the title as most Hip Hop acts 10 years ago were just beginning to taste
>platinum status. Remember, SoundScan came out the exact same time as
>"Efil4zaggin" did and "numbers" weren't as bottom line as they are now.
>
I still don't get your point. Rolling with the artists spawned out of the late
1990s+ doesn't mean that you can compare two completely different artists,
regardless of what era they're reppin'.
One thing I was thinking in my car before when listening to IT - dude has more
soundalikes/sounds like more other rappers than Ludacris.
TJ Xenos
>Wow! That is saying something. Well here's a real doozy, I'm still
>waiting on a line or hook or bar---anything that would make me go "oh,
>rewind that" coming from Jigga-boo or Jadakiss.
www.ohhla.com then click on favorite artists. Theres a jigga page and a jada
one, theres atleast 100 hot lines...
>
>Hmmm...did Cam'ron's allegation upon his debut about having relations
>with a family member be a conspiracy theory or marketing tool?
coherency please.
>How about
>our government aiding non-democratic regimes?
no, I got that from a book where it can be footnoted and explained in depth as
opposed to a song which doesnt really offer the time or format for real
education. Actually for the most part I got it in 7th grade social studies
when we covered south africa and central america and haiti as the coup etc was
going down. Then in 10th grade history we got into vietnam and korea and read
from Zinn.
>Knowing these thing are a
>bit more tangible than kids in the inner-city drooling over living in
>the Hamptons(assuming they know where it is) and the like.
Neither one is relevant. The governement and press are still gonna cover up
and deny everything and no one's gonna believe you. You're more likely to get
that house in the hamptons than for the us to admit its wrongdoings and change
its policy direction.
>
>This is where we respecfully disagree because there are plenty that are
>better than him as we speak.
who?
> I've often said, and history bears this
>out, dude got over simply on the backs of two dead guys.
As opposed to immortal technique who's getting off by jacking an old white guy,
and a washed up political rapper whose only role now is "political hiphop
spokesperson".
>
>Wrong answer. The stuff I said cements my view as to why going platinum
>today is overrated and how much more interest would go to Technique.
>He'd be seen as a mix between some of Hip Hop's greats.
Why is going platinum overrated? What is it supposed to connote that it
doesnt? All it is sposed to mean and all it does mean is a million people
bought your record. If you think sales are irrelevant then it aint just today
holmes, its always been like that. And the simple fact is 99% dont give a fuck
about technique, they dont give a fuck about kool g and they dont give a fuck
about kane, etc. The rules have changed. Show me how he's a mix between
snoop, jay, nas, pac, big coz thats how the game is defined now. Im not saying
thats how it should be, but thats what the current generation uses to define
dopeness pretty much.
>
><<You said the stuff they rap around is not very relevant. I list a few
>of the things off the top of my head that Jigga and Jada rap about, and
>lo and behold, you say it's "relevant". You're not being consistent.>>
>
>Respectfully, I'm still waiting on those "few things"
the ones in the quote you snipped.
>because hearing
>them since they've been out, it's the same thugging and balling..
DUDE. So based on oochie wally, you owe me, etc nas is just on some fuckin &
disrespecting women? The jigga song with the oliuver sample is about taking
care of his nephews. The song blueprint is about his parents not being around
and his older siblings raising him. Song cry is about getting caught up and
forgetting the people who were there for you and realizing after and regretting
the fuck outta it. Or jada's keep your head up where he talks about staying in
school and getting out of the ghetto.
>
>I stay abreast of the mainstream as well...which is why I hold such a
>hardline.
No, you stay abreast of the radio and/or mtv. You stay abreast of pop music
and not the work of the mainstream hiphop artists. Because they put the token
pop song on their album to get on radio/mtv and you hear it doesnt mean you're
abreast of them.
>
><<You've never heard "Undying Love"?>>
>
>No sir, I haven't. Which is why I asked you was this on a mixtape.
It's by nas, from I AM
TJ Xenos
>Yes ma'am and that's my point to mochaspresso. To her, it's a danceable
>thing. To me, it's KRS-One's thought: "can you rock a party AND wake up
>your people". I understand clearly that everyone may not be of that
>mindset for entertainment. Personally, I like edutainment and we're
>lacking woefully any balance on radio/video...which is why I hold a
>hardline.
NO ONE IS SAYING DIFFERENT. THEY'RE SAYING NEITHER LUDA NOR I.T. IS BETTER
BECAUSE NEITHER DOES BOTH.
Google Beta User
>No sir, I haven't. Which is why I asked you was this on a mixtape.
>
>It's by nas, from I AM
And that he hasn't heard of it, let alone heard it, - especially as it
has been discussed here before - suggests that he does not in fact tune
in to "the mainstream" as he claims. I think you're right he probably
just hears from them whatever gets played on MTV or radio.
No way would ANYONE charecterize Jay or Jada as 'straight thuggin and
ballin', unless they're assuming G-Unit = All of mainstream hip-hop.
Sumran
> DUDE. So based on oochie wally, you owe me, etc nas is just on some fuckin &
> disrespecting women? The jigga song with the oliuver sample is about taking
> care of his nephews. The song blueprint is about his parents not being around
> and his older siblings raising him. Song cry is about getting caught up and
> forgetting the people who were there for you and realizing after and regretting
> the fuck outta it. Or jada's keep your head up where he talks about staying in
> school and getting out of the ghetto.
"say that I'm foolish I only talk about jewels
Do you fools listen to music or do you just skim through it?"
--
"Life is a struggle, life is beautiful, life is a beautiful struggle"
Mos Def
--
Contributer to www.rmhh.com
quest19...@webtv.net
<<but why does a charcater like Biz or Digital Underground or Doug E
Fresh get seemingly universal love but a cat like Chingy or Luda (who
are in effect - the Biz or Doug of this era - they make PARTY music)
gets none from yourself?>>
No comparison. You had the Doug E. Fresh as the world's greatest
entertainer and you have Biz with the Biz dance. Who, outside of the St.
Louis area, says "right thurr"?
<<as for Immortal Technique...
Immortal Technique = a concious Chino XL>>
I disagree and I've stated my reasons why.
<<great lyrics, but at many times a forced delivery...
end of story...>>
Nothing could be further from the truth in my estimation...the beat goes
on.
quest19...@webtv.net
<<How many people do you know who have actually been shot? (...outside
your military experience, that is.) Sadly, so far I've come to know
six. And they were all under the age of 13.>>
I'm black, plenty. And that's the sad part and it's seeps into the music
which filters down to impressionable youth...surely, you know the story.
<<Have you ever thought that maybe 50 is waking you up to the fact that
there are some young people out there that relate to his story of
surviving gunshot wounds because they themselves or someone they knew
did?>>
Really. You can't be serious.
<<I'm not saying that 50 is for the kids or that he's appropriate for
young people. I'm saying that everybody has a story and everybody's
story isn't the same. Maybe that's what hip-hop as a whole and in all
it's forms, good and bad, is supposed to wake us all up to?>>
Yes you are...you just did, mochaspresso. You're pandering to the lowest
denominator...YOU being an educator should know better.
quest19...@webtv.net
<<BIZ MARKIE
DOUG E FRESH
EPMD
AUDIO 2
there's four artists for starters, who can hardly be accused of having
'fire' vocals, and still get universal love and respect.>>
And you have to ask WHY they do? And these are compared to Chingy and
Nelly? Case rested.
quest19...@webtv.net
<<She didn't say that Hip-Hop is a 'danceable thing'. She said that
sometimes she likes to get down, and sometimes likes to get deep.
Hip-Hop can cater for both needs but most artists, *certainly* not IT,
don't provide both needs in coexistence. When was the last time you
heard IT smash up the dancefloor??>>
And so do I, in terms of bars and clubs I go to, unless it's
underground...you essentially hear the same tired dudes you hear/see on
TV/radio. And that's unfortunate because a decade and a half ago, it
clearly wasn't like that...even in bars and clubs.
<<On that note, there's a difference between what people want to hear in
the club and what they want to vibe to at home. I go out to get my dance
on, not to hear of the woes of 'Harlem Streets'. That's for home. When
I'm out, I wanna hear 2Pac, Biggie, Luda, LL, etc. but when I'm at home
RV2 suits me just fine.>>
Good point, and don't rely on radio/TV(anymore) for diversity. And your
last paragraph is essentially the rut we're in. Forget...forget that
we're in the rut. Our remedy..."tear da club up". Get the connection?
<<Firstly, not all people like 'edutainment'. In fact, it's pretty safe
to say that most kids under 25 *don't*. Secondly, I think 'edutainment'
is somewhat of an oxymoron. Sabac might enlighten you with his
conspiracy theories, but that knowledge isn't gonna land you a degree or
a job.>>
Very true, they don't. I said personally. I also liked "Grindin", "Ha",
etc. I understand that kids under 25 now aren't how we were fiends for
real under 25. Saturation makes it so. And point taken if you believe
Sabac Red is a conspiracy theorist...it'll get you to think quicker than
"I'm Still Fly" ever could. Further, it's THAT type of thinking that
keeps ghetto kids ghetto. Bad example on your part.
<<I still don't get your point. Rolling with the artists spawned out of
the late 1990s+ doesn't mean that you can compare two completely
different artists, regardless of what era they're reppin'.>>
Well, you weren't listening nor reading the header. To go platinum today
is overrated whereas a decade ago, it didn't have the same sense of
accomplishment.
<<One thing I was thinking in my car before when listening to IT - dude
has more soundalikes/sounds like more other rappers than Ludacris.>>
Wow, that's a revelation! I've been a fan of Hip Hop since age 13. Now
at 37, I can say without hesitation that he doesn't at all sound anyone
before or since.
mochaspresso
>Clearly groping for justification, mochaspresso:
><<How many people do you know who have actually been shot? (...outside
>your military experience, that is.) Sadly, so far I've come to know
>six. And they were all under the age of 13.>>
>
>I'm black, plenty. And that's the sad part and it's seeps into the music
>which filters down to impressionable youth...surely, you know the story.
>
50 didn't cause that situation in their lives. No form of
entertainment did. When I was in 7th grade, a friend of mine was shot
in the leg by a stray bullet. That was 1981-82? Which rapper created
that situation? Maybe it was RunDMC.
><<Have you ever thought that maybe 50 is waking you up to the fact that
>there are some young people out there that relate to his story of
>surviving gunshot wounds because they themselves or someone they knew
>did?>>
>
>Really. You can't be serious.
>
><<I'm not saying that 50 is for the kids or that he's appropriate for
>young people. I'm saying that everybody has a story and everybody's
>story isn't the same. Maybe that's what hip-hop as a whole and in all
>it's forms, good and bad, is supposed to wake us all up to?>>
>
>Yes you are...you just did, mochaspresso. You're pandering to the lowest
>denominator...YOU being an educator should know better.
I, being an educator, would never support cencorship. I, being an
educator, know that hip-hop didn't create or contribute to a world
full of violence. I, being and educator, have had to intervene on
many occasions in fights that involved kids who don't even listen to
hip-hop or even speak english for that matter. Many times, some of
the kids are "fresh off the boat" and they are no different from the
black "hip-hop" kids or the white kids that I see walking around the
malls acting a fool on Long Island. The environments these kids are
forced to live in is what's creating these situations. People from
those types of environments are writing about it.
What 50 is doing is no different from what NWA did.....or IT for that
matter. IT cusses and talks about doing time and being "hard"
himself. He uses the word nigga. He uses pictures depicting violence
as album inserts.....or did you conveniently miss all those things
while you listened?
No offense, but you're so one sided. You only see one side of IT and
one side of 50. Methinks you really haven't "listened" to either
one.....or maybe you only hear what you want to hear?
mochaspresso
>A to the L asks:
><<but why does a charcater like Biz or Digital Underground or Doug E
>Fresh get seemingly universal love but a cat like Chingy or Luda (who
>are in effect - the Biz or Doug of this era - they make PARTY music)
>gets none from yourself?>>
>
>No comparison. You had the Doug E. Fresh as the world's greatest
>entertainer and you have Biz with the Biz dance. Who, outside of the St.
>Louis area, says "right thurr"?
You're questioning an accent?
Who outside of NY says "aw-ight"?
>
><<as for Immortal Technique...
>Immortal Technique = a concious Chino XL>>
>
>I disagree and I've stated my reasons why.
>
><<great lyrics, but at many times a forced delivery...
>end of story...>>
>
>Nothing could be further from the truth in my estimation...the beat goes
>on.
-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->
Mochaspresso
A to the L
you tell me... you're the one making the big thing about artists
needing to have 'fire' lyrics to be any good...
A to the L
>Jennashaw85 says:
><<She didn't say that Hip-Hop is a 'danceable thing'. She said that
>sometimes she likes to get down, and sometimes likes to get deep.
>Hip-Hop can cater for both needs but most artists, *certainly* not IT,
>don't provide both needs in coexistence. When was the last time you
>heard IT smash up the dancefloor??>>
>
>And so do I, in terms of bars and clubs I go to, unless it's
>underground...you essentially hear the same tired dudes you hear/see on
>TV/radio. And that's unfortunate because a decade and a half ago, it
>clearly wasn't like that...even in bars and clubs.
wow - what clubs did you go to? lets see, a decade ago would have put
you right in the middle of Biggie 'One More Chance' territory... a
decade ago I can't think of ONE concious hiphop record that go serious
club play...
maybe you'd like to enlighten us all?
><<On that note, there's a difference between what people want to hear in
>the club and what they want to vibe to at home. I go out to get my dance
>on, not to hear of the woes of 'Harlem Streets'. That's for home. When
>I'm out, I wanna hear 2Pac, Biggie, Luda, LL, etc. but when I'm at home
>RV2 suits me just fine.>>
>
>Good point, and don't rely on radio/TV(anymore) for diversity. And your
>last paragraph is essentially the rut we're in. Forget...forget that
>we're in the rut. Our remedy..."tear da club up". Get the connection?
you really are intent on seeing things YOUR way and nobody else's
aren't you? go to any club and drop an IT joint and watch the dance
floor clear... go to any joint 15 years ago and drop Bring The Noise
or Prophets Of Rage and watch the dancefloor clear...
most people don't want to be preached to while they grind on butts -
that shit is for the headphones...
how you can even TRY to dispute this is beyond me...
><<Firstly, not all people like 'edutainment'. In fact, it's pretty safe
>to say that most kids under 25 *don't*. Secondly, I think 'edutainment'
>is somewhat of an oxymoron. Sabac might enlighten you with his
>conspiracy theories, but that knowledge isn't gonna land you a degree or
>a job.>>
>
>Very true, they don't. I said personally. I also liked "Grindin", "Ha",
>etc. I understand that kids under 25 now aren't how we were fiends for
>real under 25. Saturation makes it so. And point taken if you believe
>Sabac Red is a conspiracy theorist...it'll get you to think quicker than
>"I'm Still Fly" ever could. Further, it's THAT type of thinking that
>keeps ghetto kids ghetto. Bad example on your part.
Once again, like last time, you miss the whole point of I'm Still Fly
(I assume it is the Cash Money joint you're talking about here))
A to the L
>A to the L asks:
><<but why does a charcater like Biz or Digital Underground or Doug E
>Fresh get seemingly universal love but a cat like Chingy or Luda (who
>are in effect - the Biz or Doug of this era - they make PARTY music)
>gets none from yourself?>>
>
>No comparison. You had the Doug E. Fresh as the world's greatest
>entertainer and you have Biz with the Biz dance. Who, outside of the St.
>Louis area, says "right thurr"?
that's why you pick on Chingy? lol, you desperately trying to hate
anything mainstream...
you probably hate luda's music cos he once had a deal with pepsi, and
that shit is the devil's piss water...
><<as for Immortal Technique...
>Immortal Technique = a concious Chino XL>>
>
>I disagree and I've stated my reasons why.
I#ve never seen them... in my opinion, both their flows are choppy,
they both do that 'cramming' things in lines - Chino to fit in another
punchline, IT to tell you another failing in the black race, or
another attack on the white man... they both are acknowledged as great
lyricists, but both lack the certain spark to get them in the door
with everyone... etc etc
Jennashaw85
mattmatical
>wow - what clubs did you go to? lets see, a decade ago would have put
>you right in the middle of Biggie 'One More Chance' territory... a
>decade ago I can't think of ONE concious hiphop record that go serious
>club play...
>go to any club and drop an IT joint and watch the dance
>floor clear... go to any joint 15 years ago and drop Bring The Noise
>or Prophets Of Rage and watch the dancefloor clear...
What clubs did you go to? "It Takes A Nation..." is music
to dance to, from beginning to end.
That was the point of that record, wasn't it?
TJ Xenos
>entertainer
self proclaimed title, what the fuck credence does this have? All music since
1990 is garbage compared to michael jackson because he's the king of pop.
>and you have Biz with the Biz dance
wow. biz had his own dance he did. That certainly establishes him as being
"dope".
>Who, outside of the St.
>Louis area, says "right thurr"?
lots of fuckin kids who listen to chingy and shit. I heard this spring a
little asian girl on the bus point out to her friend an emty seat say "you can
go sit with (whatever name) right thurr".
>
><<great lyrics, but at many times a forced delivery...
>end of story...>>
>
>Nothing could be further from the truth in my estimation...
if his delivery isnt forced then kwelis must be as smooth as a babys ass.
TJ Xenos
>I'm black, plenty. And that's the sad part and it's seeps into the music
>which filters down to impressionable youth...surely, you know the story.
>
what impressionable youth are buying tons of gangsta rap records? Where are
they getting the money? By the time you have an income to buy records your
parents should have told you reality vs fantasy and right vs wrong. And its
easier to see 45 guys get blown away graphically in a R rated movie on network
tv or cable than it is to hear an unedited rap song....
><<Have you ever thought that maybe 50 is waking you up to the fact that
>there are some young people out there that relate to his story of
>surviving gunshot wounds because they themselves or someone they knew
>did?>>
>
>Really. You can't be serious.
yeah because nobodys lived a life like 50. That shit could only come from
somebodys imagination. And lord knows cats hustling and getting shot in the
hood dont listen to thug rap too...
TJ Xenos
><<I'm not saying that 50 is for the kids or that he's appropriate for
>young people. I'm saying that everybody has a story and everybody's
>story isn't the same. Maybe that's what hip-hop as a whole and in all
>it's forms, good and bad, is supposed to wake us all up to?>>
>
>Yes you are...you just did, mochaspresso. You're pandering to the lowest
>denominator...YOU being an educator should know better.
how is saying that different things are for different people considered
pandering to the lowest common denominator? Isnt that actually the exact
opposite? Wouldnt saying 50 cent is great for everyone and trynig to justify
it be more along those lines?
TJ Xenos
>there's four artists for starters, who can hardly be accused of having
>'fire' vocals, and still get universal love and respect.>>
>
>And you have to ask WHY they do?
yes if we're going on about how respect and sales should be based on skills and
these cats are certainly far from being hot lyrically.
>And these are compared to Chingy and
>Nelly? Case rested.
Id take nelly over biz in a battle. Worst battle ever but still...
TJ Xenos
>And so do I, in terms of bars and clubs I go to, unless it's
>underground...you essentially hear the same tired dudes you hear/see on
>TV/radio. And that's unfortunate because a decade and a half ago, it
>clearly wasn't like that...even in bars and clubs.
>
a decade and a half ago there wasnt hiphop on tv and radio. You had an hour a
week of yo mtv raps and all other rap was kept out of the public eye for the
most part. Ergo you didnt have people goin to clubs to hear the jams they
heard on tv or radio, and thus you didnt have djs spinnning the records people
wanted to hear.
>
><<On that note, there's a difference between what people want to hear in
>the club and what they want to vibe to at home. I go out to get my dance
>on, not to hear of the woes of 'Harlem Streets'. That's for home. When
>I'm out, I wanna hear 2Pac, Biggie, Luda, LL, etc. but when I'm at home
>RV2 suits me just fine.>>
>
>Good point, and don't rely on radio/TV(anymore) for diversity.
god, ive been saying this for ages. TV and radio are out to make a profit and
so long as thats the case you can merely expect them to push what people are
buying.
> And your
>last paragraph is essentially the rut we're in.
That when we want to dance we listen to dancy music and when we have time and
ability to give undivided attention we listen to things that require more
thought?
> Forget...forget that
>we're in the rut. Our remedy..."tear da club up". Get the connection?
>
How is that a remedy? Its just one fucking aspect of life that exists for a
few hours a week. No one is under any sort of illusion that tearing the club
up is gonna make things better, its a fucking release. Its the same as goin
down the park and hoopin it up or sitting down playing madden or watchin the
simpsons, its entertainment for when you're burnt out and cant/dont want to do
anything cerebral.
TJ Xenos
anyway...
>
><<Firstly, not all people like 'edutainment'. In fact, it's pretty safe
>to say that most kids under 25 *don't*. Secondly, I think 'edutainment'
>is somewhat of an oxymoron. Sabac might enlighten you with his
>conspiracy theories, but that knowledge isn't gonna land you a degree or
>a job.>>
<snip>
> I understand that kids under 25 now aren't how we were fiends for
>real under 25.
Because they dont give a fuck about your has been and never will be political
rappers they dont fiend for hiphop? You have a really egocentric perspective
of hiphop. I know young cats with ridiculous amounts of knowledge and cds.
however due to the fact that the game aint tiny anymore they have to specialize
so you got kids who got every single g-unit tape they've made, and all the
saigon, and all the grafh and the d-block, and you sit there and say oh he dont
know nothin but a little bit of thug nonsense, well his thug nonsense is over a
hundred cds and he could totally school you on anything in his realm. Sure he
dont know shit about paris or prt, but does that make him less of a hiphop
fiend? Does not knowing nearly as much about fifty, banks, jada etc make you
less?
> Saturation makes it so. And point taken if you believe
>Sabac Red is a conspiracy theorist...
Does sabac or does he not have a song that aids was a government conspiracy?
>it'll get you to think quicker than
>"I'm Still Fly" ever could.
I think clever ways of talking about being rich and wordplay gets you thinking
in a better way than lies....
>Further, it's THAT type of thinking that
>keeps ghetto kids ghetto. Bad example on your part.
>
The fact that you need money to make money in capitalism keeps ghetto people
ghetto. Sure realistically you can move from poor up to working class to lower
middle class as the income gap increases and the lines blur and despite your
upgrade in class, your standard of living is still minimal, you cant afford to
move out of the ghetto, you get a shit education, maybe if your lucky you can
afford community college.... Of course everyones got the one story about their
cousin or their boy who was the one kid in the hood who got financial aid and
made it and then gets to look down at everyone else who didnt get the same
opportunity because they didnt improve themselves.
><<I still don't get your point. Rolling with the artists spawned out of
>the late 1990s+ doesn't mean that you can compare two completely
>different artists, regardless of what era they're reppin'.>>
>
>Well, you weren't listening nor reading the header. To go platinum today
>is overrated whereas a decade ago, it didn't have the same sense of
>accomplishment.
>
WHY?
><<One thing I was thinking in my car before when listening to IT - dude
>has more soundalikes/sounds like more other rappers than Ludacris.>>
>
>Wow, that's a revelation! I've been a fan of Hip Hop since age 13. Now
>at 37, I can say without hesitation that he doesn't at all sound anyone
>before or since.
>
He sounds like vinnie paz on ludes.
A to the L
wrote:
are you being serious or sarcastic matt?
one of chuck and hank shocklee's famous comments about YBTS and
ITANOMTHUB is that in the making of these albums they wanted to make
music that girls didn't like... they wanted to make noise...
I'd be pushed to find danceable music on ITANOMTHUB after maybe Don't
Believe The Hype and Security Of The First World... and even those
would be a push to drop in a club, even back then...
that's what Kid N Play were for...
noixe!
Jennashaw85 wrote:
> Quest, you make me want to scream with frustration sometimes.
--
Noixe
The Underground Post: noixe01.blogspot.com
Google Beta User
one side of 50. Methinks you really haven't "listened" to either
one.....or maybe you only hear what you want to hear? >>
IAWTP.
What got me was how he claimed Jada and Jigga don't talk about any
topics. That they're "all thuggery".
I bet you if we reviewed "Black Album" or "Blueprint" or Jada's joint
song by song by topic and put it up against Immortal Technique or an
Esoteric album, we'd find out that some rappers are more monotonous
than we'd like to admit, wheras others have more to say than we give
them credit for.
Jennashaw85
>that's why I don't read his shit anymore.
>
>Jennashaw85 wrote:
>
>> Quest, you make me want to scream with frustration sometimes.
It's like a compulsion for me. Up until a few years ago, I posted on AOL teens
boards, and even those kids didn't spout so much shit...
mattmatical
>On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 13:40:49 +0100, mattmatical <dont...@try.it>
>wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 11:21:37 +0000, A to the L wrote:
>>
>>>wow - what clubs did you go to? lets see, a decade ago would have put
>>>you right in the middle of Biggie 'One More Chance' territory... a
>>>decade ago I can't think of ONE concious hiphop record that go serious
>>>club play...
>>
>>>go to any club and drop an IT joint and watch the dance
>>>floor clear... go to any joint 15 years ago and drop Bring The Noise
>>>or Prophets Of Rage and watch the dancefloor clear...
>>
>>What clubs did you go to? "It Takes A Nation..." is music
>>to dance to, from beginning to end.
>>
>>That was the point of that record, wasn't it?
>
>are you being serious or sarcastic matt?
I'm serious.
>one of chuck and hank shocklee's famous comments about YBTS and
>ITANOMTHUB is that in the making of these albums they wanted to make
>music that girls didn't like... they wanted to make noise...
What's your/their argument, that girls don't like noise?
That boys don't want to dance? We're talking about
hip-hop, where if you're into breaking etc. dancing offers
you the opportunity to show off as much masculinity as
you can muster. I know we're talking about a different
form of dancing, but even then I don't think dancing to
hip-hop is a girlie thing to do.
Again, wasn't "Nation" supposed to LITERALLY move
people, not just with the message, but with the music?
Some kind of 'revolution on the dancefloor' thing?
Wasn't that part of PE's masterplan, not to bore folks
with their message, but to present it in an appealing
package?
If "Nation" isn't dance music, I don't know what is. Se-
riously. Assuming dancing is anything that makes you
in some shape or fashion move your feet, wind your
body, jump around, etc. I'm talking about hip-hop heads
(and those willing to be turned into ones) not the main-
stream clubber in '88 dancing to Madonna, Erasure or
whatever was popular with most people. (Acid aside.)
Just think what that album did for the rest of electronic
music. So many people were influenced by realizing
what possibilities sampling has to offer dance music.
Even taking into consideration the rebellious spirit and
the hardness of PE's music, the fact remains that
"Nation" is quintessential dance music. Things are a
little bit different for the heavier, slower "Bum Rush",
I admit.
>I'd be pushed to find danceable music on ITANOMTHUB after maybe Don't
>Believe The Hype and Security Of The First World... and even those
>would be a push to drop in a club, even back then...
Are you talking about hip-hop nights at regular clubs?
I'd wager that these were be hard to find anywhere in
Europe outside of a few major cities back in 1988. That
was a time when hip-hop in Europe was as under-
ground as can be. Tell me if I'm wrong.
I'm talking about hip-hop events outside of the estab-
lished club scene, what Germans referred to as jams,
where the faithful gathered, and I'll be damned if they
only danced to...
>that's what Kid N Play were for...
I knew you were gonna bring up Kid 'n Play. Sorry, as far
as danceability goes, I see no difference.
Taking it back to '88 (the first renaissance of the break-
beat if you will), can you see a divide in hip-hop the way it
now exists, between club jams and underground joints,
between the radio format and battle raps, etc.? I don't.
(The old/new/next school rift aside).
Kuahmel Allah
"Pickin Boogers" and no one said it's wack when it actuallly was if
you're honest enough to admit it.<<<<
"Hey mom, what's for dinner?"
"Go up ya nose...and PICK A WINNER!!!"
And Marley with those drums he programmed?
You ain't tellin' me that song was wack.
Dope and wack is subjective.
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/3/kuahmelmusic.htm
http://members.blackplanet.com/Mrfocus
"For God's sake, eat a burger!!!"--Calista Flockhart
"If you plan on getting pregnant, first find a man!!"--Jillian Barberie
Kuahmel Allah
aren't you? go to any club and drop an IT joint and watch the dance
floor clear... go to any joint 15 years ago and drop Bring The Noise
or Prophets Of Rage and watch the dancefloor clear...
most people don't want to be preached to while they grind on butts -
that shit is for the headphones..<<<<
On the other end though, what kills me is that they are ALL GOOD with being
told they're gonna get robbed and beat up while they're on the dancefloor.
Is it lyrics of the MC or the beat?
Sumran
> that's why I don't read his shit anymore.
Ditto, hence my absence from this quite interesting discussion.
Sumran
>Who, outside of the St Louis area, says "right thurr"?
You serious!? I fucking heard people in the Uk using it. I mean fair
enough they sound like fucking idiots but they say it nonetheless.
quest19...@webtv.net
<<50 didn't cause that situation in their lives. No form of
entertainment did. When I was in 7th grade, a friend of mine was shot in
the leg by a stray bullet. That was 1981-82? Which rapper created that
situation? Maybe it was RunDMC.>>
Justification run amok. As an educator, you amaze me. In 1986, at a show
in California, a kid was killed and that DEFINITELY was pinned on
RunDMC's presence. Everyone knows that was false and lead to the way Hip
Hop concerts are put together. With that out of the way, entertainment
shouldn't wallow in the stuff 50 and his ilk(fans too) kick. You, as an
educator, should be much more in tuned with that. Amazing.
<<I, being an educator, would never support cencorship. I, being an
educator, know that hip-hop didn't create or contribute to a world full
of violence.>>
Remarkable...as was the rest of that diatribe. Again, you're
sugarcoating feces and going in a whole new direction...censorship, who
implied that? Let's stay with the thread.
<<What 50 is doing is no different from what NWA did.....or IT for that
matter. IT cusses and talks about doing time and being "hard" himself.
He uses the word nigga. He uses pictures depicting violence as album
inserts.....or did you conveniently miss all those things while you
listened?>>
Really, and I'm not "listening"? Yes he does and, as an educator, you
can tell me that our country wasn't built on violence? Set to music and
a dope beat, that would be much more entertaining than just wholesale
killing/drug dealing.
<<No offense, but you're so one sided. You only see one side of IT and
one side of 50. Methinks you really haven't "listened" to either
one.....or maybe you only hear what you want to hear?>>
None taken, and I see your view here as proof-positive of you trying to
justify self-defeating behavior and sugar-coating it with Disney-like
"danceable" overtones(beats). I've heard enough to know that he,
Jigga-boo, and Jadakiss put out work that the children you "educate"
will never attain...most of which will have them dead/jail/destitute.
Having to show that you have the artist's catalog isn't a requirement to
know pretty much where an artist is coming from...again, groping for
justification on your part.
mochaspresso
>
>Justification run amok. As an educator, you amaze me. In 1986, at a show
>in California, a kid was killed and that DEFINITELY was pinned on
>RunDMC's presence. Everyone knows that was false and lead to the way Hip
>Hop concerts are put together. With that out of the way, entertainment
>shouldn't wallow in the stuff 50 and his ilk(fans too) kick. You, as an
>educator, should be much more in tuned with that. Amazing.
>
What's the difference between 50 or a Jackie Chan Movie or a Stephen
King novel or a video game? Kids can watch Smackdown...but 50 is bad
for them? Even though my experiences in the school yard every single
Friday show that Smackdown and Crash Bandicott has a much more harmful
affect on their behavior than 50 cent appears to?
This is really an aside....by what does what I do for a living have to
to do w/ this conversation anyway? You really do think it's your
child's teacher's job to tell your kids what is appropriate music
listening and what's not? You think it's your child's teacher's job
to pick their music for them?
(...even if I did want to try to tell them that 50 was bad, what makes
you think that they would listen to me anyway? I know that I didn't
listen to any teachers trying to tell me that hip-hop music was
garbage when I was their age and I even resented their interference
into things that they obviously didn't take any time to understand.)
Truthfully, I hardly ever discuss 50 cent w/ my students like that.
It doesn't come up because I'm busy doing my job. The word 50 comes up
in places like math or in Social Studies. Imo, it's my primary
responsiblity to teach them to read and write. I handle the
academics. It's your job as the parent to raise them.
><<I, being an educator, would never support cencorship. I, being an
>educator, know that hip-hop didn't create or contribute to a world full
>of violence.>>
>
>Remarkable...as was the rest of that diatribe. Again, you're
>sugarcoating feces and going in a whole new direction...censorship, who
>implied that? Let's stay with the thread.
>
Well, what are you implying then?
><<What 50 is doing is no different from what NWA did.....or IT for that
>matter. IT cusses and talks about doing time and being "hard" himself.
>He uses the word nigga. He uses pictures depicting violence as album
>inserts.....or did you conveniently miss all those things while you
>listened?>>
>
>Really, and I'm not "listening"? Yes he does and, as an educator, you
>can tell me that our country wasn't built on violence? Set to music and
>a dope beat, that would be much more entertaining than just wholesale
>killing/drug dealing.
>
See, I can tell right there that you didn't listen to 50 or any
G-Unit. His album isn't wholesale killing and drug dealing.
....and are you suggesting that glorifying violence by wearing a
"political" shirt and putting on your album insert is different and
more acceptable than listening to 50 cent? If so, I wholeheartedly
disagree.
><<No offense, but you're so one sided. You only see one side of IT and
>one side of 50. Methinks you really haven't "listened" to either
>one.....or maybe you only hear what you want to hear?>>
>
>None taken, and I see your view here as proof-positive of you trying to
>justify self-defeating behavior and sugar-coating it with Disney-like
>"danceable" overtones(beats). I've heard enough to know that he,
>Jigga-boo, and Jadakiss put out work that the children you "educate"
...again, what does Jigga and Jada have to do w/ education? This is
me and you having a conversation about hip-hop. Leave my job out of
it.
>will never attain...most of which will have them dead/jail/destitute.
>Having to show that you have the artist's catalog isn't a requirement to
>know pretty much where an artist is coming from...again, groping for
>justification on your part.
You don't have to own their catalogue if you don't want to. You just
shouldn't comment on things that you obviously haven't heard.
quest19...@webtv.net
<<you tell me... you're the one making the big thing about artists
needing to have 'fire' lyrics to be any good.>>
I did already. But let's stay within the spirit of the thread...just the
legs this thread has grown shows how off topic its' become.
quest19...@webtv.net
you right in the middle of Biggie 'One More Chance' territory... a
decade ago I can't think of ONE concious hiphop record that go serious
club play...
maybe you'd like to enlighten us all?>>
Enlightenment...you should know this stuff already. In Philadelphia,
trust, I've run the gamut when it comes to Hip Hop nightlife. Nas' song
with Lauryn got major burn in clubs. There's your ONE.
<<you really are intent on seeing things YOUR way and nobody else's
aren't you? go to any club and drop an IT joint and watch the dance
floor clear... go to any joint 15 years ago and drop Bring The Noise or
Prophets Of Rage and watch the dancefloor clear.>>
It's not my intent, this is how it is based on my experiences. You have
experiences as well, more power to you. Go to the club and see how
quickly it clears whenever Eminem/Chingy get played. And 15 years ago,
you're crazy, ANYTHING that PE dropped was played at clubs in
Philadelphia, and I'd surmise nationally. ONLY those under rocks
wouldn't know that
<<most people don't want to be preached to while they grind on butts -
that shit is for the headphones...
how you can even TRY to dispute this is beyond me.>>
That's ALL we do now. We had TONS of dances to roll with any conscious
song. Maybe where you're from it's not like that or ever was. A major
city as this, you can't tell me about. The dispute in that sense IS
beyond you.
<<Once again, like last time, you miss the whole point of I'm Still Fly
(I assume it is the Cash Money joint you're talking about here))>>
The point? Now you can enlighten me..based on lyrics alone, what's
redeeming or even entertaining about the gist of that song?
quest19...@webtv.net
<<that's why you pick on Chingy? lol, you desperately trying to hate
anything mainstream.>>
Wrong answer. Chingy, Nelly, Ying Yang Twins...any wack rapper in the
main will do. The funny part is your fixated on thinking it's just about
him. Wackness abound dude, it's bigger than him. Think it through. My
critique...no hating.
<<you probably hate luda's music cos he once had a deal with pepsi, and
that shit is the devil's piss water.>>
Wrong answer again. He's just alright---if that's what dope is in 2005.
I don't drink Pepsi, never have, good for him he got the deal until
O'Reilly made that company go PC.
<<I#ve never seen them... in my opinion, both their flows are choppy,
they both do that 'cramming' things in lines - Chino to fit in another
punchline, IT to tell you another failing in the black race, or another
attack on the white man... they both are acknowledged as great
lyricists, but both lack the certain spark to get them in the door with
everyone... etc etc>>
That's a shame, you'll have to read and not react---but they've been
given. With that out of the way, their subject matter is what makes
corporation(and a ton of in the fog fans it seem) uncomfortable. And
that's a shame. Now, the labels(and "fans") will take any old
thing...thus and so.
quest19...@webtv.net
<<Quest, you make me want to scream with frustration sometimes.>>
Jenna, you make me drop my head in pity for the generations of so-called
Hip Hop heads. They're in a world of hurt.
quest19...@webtv.net
<<self proclaimed title, what the fuck credence does this have? All
music since 1990 is garbage compared to michael jackson because he's the
king of pop.
and you have Biz with the Biz dance
wow. biz had his own dance he did. That certainly establishes him as
being "dope".>>
Among the myriad of other talents, DJing being one of them, he embodies
Hip Hop. What's Chingy's angle. Hmm... And Michael Jackson has(and will
in death probably) more influence on artists than you'd want to give
credit. He's king. As with Doug E. Fresh, good shows, got the elements
down pat, think it through.
lots of fuckin kids who listen to chingy and shit. I heard this spring a
little asian girl on the bus point out to her friend an emty seat say
"you can go sit with (whatever name) right thurr".>>
Exactly, IMPRESSIONABLE youth who don't know any better and Chingy, to
them unfortunately is as good as they come. She doesn't know any
better...bad example.
<<if his delivery isnt forced then kwelis must be as smooth as a babys
ass.>>
Another horrific example...I've made my opinion known about Kweli, an
informed dude with bad delivery. Your point?
quest19...@webtv.net
<<yes if we're going on about how respect and sales should be based on
skills and these cats are certainly far from being hot lyrically.>>
In today's climate, unfortunately you're correct and this is as close as
you've come to staying with the spirit of the header. Outstanding.
<<Id take nelly over biz in a battle. Worst battle ever but still.>>
Rhetorically speaking, you would. Nelly himself has said he doesn't
battle. Again, case rested.
quest19...@webtv.net
<<how is saying that different things are for different people
considered pandering to the lowest common denominator? Isnt that
actually the exact opposite? Wouldnt saying 50 cent is great for
everyone and trynig to justify it be more along those lines?>>
I can take two of your posts and make a quick summation:
She was pandering, and you are too with this and your earlier response
to this issue. He is saying nothing different. He(and the "fans") is
wallowing in the gangsta aesthetic and the fans are simply trying to
sugar-coat what everyone in their right mind knows is self-defeating
behavior. Period, end of story.
quest19...@webtv.net
<<a decade and a half ago there wasnt hiphop on tv and radio. You had an
hour a week of yo mtv raps and all other rap was kept out of the public
eye for the most part. Ergo you didnt have people goin to clubs to hear
the jams they heard on tv or radio, and thus you didnt have djs
spinnning the records people wanted to hear.>>
You may want to do research on your time and state of Hip Hop here.
You're definitely wrong starting out here.
<<god, ive been saying this for ages. TV and radio are out to make a
profit and so long as thats the case you can merely expect them to push
what people are buying.>>
No need for divine intervention. Everyone knows this point. The TITLE
questions the merit of platinum NOW versus THEN. Don't call on a higher
power, read then respond.
<<How is that a remedy? Its just one fucking aspect of life that exists
for a few hours a week. No one is under any sort of illusion that
tearing the club up is gonna make things better, its a fucking release.
Its the same as goin down the park and hoopin it up or sitting down
playing madden or watchin the simpsons, its entertainment for when
you're burnt out and cant/dont want to do anything cerebral.>>
It's not and this is proof-positive that you engage in too much rhetoric
that takes away from what could be a good discussion. The "remedy" was
in response to the allusion of not being conscious, let's just do
ghetto. And ghetto is not a good look these day. Proof-positive you
aren't reading.
quest19...@webtv.net
<<Sure he dont know shit about paris or prt, but does that make him less
of a hiphop fiend? Does not knowing nearly as much about fifty, banks,
jada etc make you less?>>
Actually, YOU and a few other respondents should have an egocentric view
on Hip Hop. You want it to grow while keeping true to the craft and the
stuff that made it attractive. For all intents and purposes, it is a
minstrel show now. This one paragraph above sums up why we're in
trouble...amazing the diamonds you find in dirt. All kids know are their
"lane", that alone makes them limited. Hip Hop was never about that.
That specializiation point you made is why kids coming up are limited.
And one could rightly argue it crosses over into more than just their
listening tastes. Growing in all facets is far from egocentric.
quest19...@webtv.net
<<You serious!? I fucking heard people in the Uk using it. I mean fair
enough they sound like fucking idiots but they say it nonetheless.>>
Hilarious. Case rested. "I mean...", that was worth its' weight in gold.
I was very serious.
quest19...@webtv.net
<<What's the difference between 50 or a Jackie Chan Movie or a Stephen
King novel or a video game? Kids can watch Smackdown...but 50 is bad for
them? Even though my experiences in the school yard every single Friday
show that Smackdown and Crash Bandicott has a much more harmful affect
on their behavior than 50 cent appears to?>>
You've heard the numbers(particularly for "urban" youth) relative to TV
viewership and how that affects grades and social skills. You should
enlighten the collective on that issue.
<<This is really an aside....by what does what I do for a living have to
to do w/ this conversation anyway? You really do think it's your child's
teacher's job to tell your kids what is appropriate music listening and
what's not? You think it's your child's teacher's job to pick their
music for them?>>
(quest needling): There's always an aside, mochaspresso. You are their
line of defense in terms of information as it relates to the world they
face, for starters. I know fully that it's not your job to do what you
say above. On the other hand hearing your justifying what they listen
to, AS an educator, is what's disturbing to me.
<<(...even if I did want to try to tell them that 50 was bad, what makes
you think that they would listen to me anyway? I know that I didn't
listen to any teachers trying to tell me that hip-hop music was garbage
when I was their age and I even resented their interference into things
that they obviously didn't take any time to understand.)>>
I'm in that number as well. And in hindsight, THAT Hip Hop in the main
isn't THIS one. One can easily see how it's much more easy to lambast
the latter. There is a difference. And that "what makes you think" line
is a killer, I thought you guys have(or had anyway) a profound effect on
children. I guess that sort of influence went the way of the spotted
owl.
<<Truthfully, I hardly ever discuss 50 cent w/ my students like that. It
doesn't come up because I'm busy doing my job. The word 50 comes up in
places like math or in Social Studies. Imo, it's my primary
responsiblity to teach them to read and write. I handle the academics.
It's your job as the parent to raise them.>>
Agreed...and that's as it should be. Which is why I'm amazed at your
sugar-coating and justification in this dialogue. Yes, it's parents job
to raise children. We've crossed this bridge and one I roll with you on
100%.
<<Well, what are you implying then?>>
We've had this conversation, ma'am. And you're forever coming with this
censorship angle...one you've NEVER gotten from any of my post. I'm
wondering what you're implying. You've responding to many of my post,
thank you, and you should have an idea---clearly.
<<See, I can tell right there that you didn't listen to 50 or any
G-Unit. His album isn't wholesale killing and drug dealing.>>
Like the sugar-coating I mentioned, here too, you're reaching.
<<and are you suggesting that glorifying violence by wearing a
"political" shirt and putting on your album insert is different and more
acceptable than listening to 50 cent? If so, I wholeheartedly
disagree.>>
I don't know where you get that allusion, that picture changed a
generation. 50 Cent will be a "we see where this thing went down hill"
when kids look at Hip Hop in 50 years.
<<...again, what does Jigga and Jada have to do w/ education? This is me
and you having a conversation about hip-hop. Leave my job out of it.>>
We are having a civil dialogue, did that hurt you? Respecfully
mochaspresso, you used at least 5 "as an educator", thus and so. I use
it and now a problem?
<<You don't have to own their catalogue if you don't want to. You just
shouldn't comment on things that you obviously haven't heard.>>
Bad example. I said I heard enough to know pretty much where they're
coming from, and I don't have to be an educator to figure out where that
is. In that vein, my opinion that they're wack is as valid as your
sugar-coated one.
©N¥ikuli, Williåm©
> <<if his delivery isnt forced then kwelis must be as smooth as a babys
> ass.>>
>
> Another horrific example...I've made my opinion known about Kweli, an
> informed dude with bad delivery. Your point?
Talib Kweli's delivery *is* smoother than Techniques.
--
Majiin - version舶俺
Proven nobodies should not be allowed to make statements about proven
somebodies. I don't listen to nobodies. Guys obviously
are going to talk, but I only listen to somebodies." Shaquille O'Neal
mochaspresso
>
>You've heard the numbers(particularly for "urban" youth) relative to TV
>viewership and how that affects grades and social skills. You should
>enlighten the collective on that issue.
>
Which studies have you heard about and/or read? I constantly hear and
see all sorts of studies regarding "urban" youth. Some more accurate
and scientific than others.
There were studies that said young children don't need instruction in
phonics to learn to read. Many school districts believed it and took
phonics out of their curriculums. Fast forward a few years, and now
they're scratching their heads and wondering why they have so many
hiigh school aged kids who can only read on a 3rd or 4th grade level
or lower.
><<This is really an aside....by what does what I do for a living have to
>to do w/ this conversation anyway? You really do think it's your child's
>teacher's job to tell your kids what is appropriate music listening and
>what's not? You think it's your child's teacher's job to pick their
>music for them?>>
>
>(quest needling): There's always an aside, mochaspresso. You are their
>line of defense in terms of information as it relates to the world they
>face, for starters. I know fully that it's not your job to do what you
>say above. On the other hand hearing your justifying what they listen
>to, AS an educator, is what's disturbing to me.
>
I justified it from an ADULT's perspective on a possible reason why it
might appeal to kids. I specifically said that I was not advocating
that 50 cent was ideal or appropriate listening for children. I
personally wouldn't give a 50 cent CD to a child.....then again, I
wouldn't just automatically take one away from a child if they
happened to bring it home either. If you're doing what you're
supposed to as a parent, a 50 cent CD isn't going to damage them for
life.
><<(...even if I did want to try to tell them that 50 was bad, what makes
>you think that they would listen to me anyway? I know that I didn't
>listen to any teachers trying to tell me that hip-hop music was garbage
>when I was their age and I even resented their interference into things
>that they obviously didn't take any time to understand.)>>
>
>I'm in that number as well. And in hindsight, THAT Hip Hop in the main
>isn't THIS one. One can easily see how it's much more easy to lambast
>the latter. There is a difference.
I disagree. You like one and not the other. That's what the main
difference is. From a subject matter standpoint, I don't hear that
much of a difference between NWA and 50 cent. From a subject matter
standpoint, I don't that much of a difference between Lil Jon and 2
Live Crew.
From a subject matter standpoint, I don't hear that much of a
difference between Immortal Technique and Intelligent Hoodlum and even
Ice on a few tracks.
Maybe that's a possible reason why I like IT but am not necessarily so
unequivocally taken with him as you are. He's not exactly saying
things that I haven't heard somewhere in hip-hop before.
>And that "what makes you think" line
>is a killer, I thought you guys have(or had anyway) a profound effect on
>children. I guess that sort of influence went the way of the spotted
>owl.
>
If your child's teacher is having a more profound effect on your child
than you as the parent, there is a serious problem. They are only w/
the teacher approx 6 hours per day. What's going on for those other
18 hours? It's only 50 per day in the case of middle school and high
school.
But to address your point directly. Yes, I do believe that teachers
have an effect but not greater than the parent's.
><<Truthfully, I hardly ever discuss 50 cent w/ my students like that. It
>doesn't come up because I'm busy doing my job. The word 50 comes up in
>places like math or in Social Studies. Imo, it's my primary
>responsiblity to teach them to read and write. I handle the academics.
>It's your job as the parent to raise them.>>
>
>Agreed...and that's as it should be. Which is why I'm amazed at your
>sugar-coating and justification in this dialogue. Yes, it's parents job
>to raise children. We've crossed this bridge and one I roll with you on
>100%.
>
So you're saying that because I'm a teacher, I should be automatically
be opposed to 50 cent like you are? I, as an adult, can't like 50
cent's music? Should I be wearing a lace collar w/ a sting of pearls,
my hair in a bun and my glasses on the tip of my nose too?
><<Well, what are you implying then?>>
>
>We've had this conversation, ma'am. And you're forever coming with this
>censorship angle...one you've NEVER gotten from any of my post. I'm
>wondering what you're implying. You've responding to many of my post,
>thank you, and you should have an idea---clearly.
>
>
><<See, I can tell right there that you didn't listen to 50 or any
>G-Unit. His album isn't wholesale killing and drug dealing.>>
>
>Like the sugar-coating I mentioned, here too, you're reaching.
>
That's not sugar coating or reaching. You also said that Jigga and
Jada were all about thugging and balling. It's just not true.
><<and are you suggesting that glorifying violence by wearing a
>"political" shirt and putting on your album insert is different and more
>acceptable than listening to 50 cent? If so, I wholeheartedly
>disagree.>>
>
>I don't know where you get that allusion, that picture changed a
>generation. 50 Cent will be a "we see where this thing went down hill"
>when kids look at Hip Hop in 50 years.
>
You don't view that picture as a "we see where this thing went down
hill" in regards to the Vietnam War? I guess that's another debate
for another time.
><<...again, what does Jigga and Jada have to do w/ education? This is me
>and you having a conversation about hip-hop. Leave my job out of it.>>
>
>We are having a civil dialogue, did that hurt you? Respecfully
>mochaspresso, you used at least 5 "as an educator", thus and so. I use
>it and now a problem?
>
It's not hurting me in the least. I only repeated your words. I'm
just trying understand the relevance. You seem to be on some
antiquated school marm tip that I obviously don't roll with.
><<You don't have to own their catalogue if you don't want to. You just
>shouldn't comment on things that you obviously haven't heard.>>
>
>Bad example. I said I heard enough to know pretty much where they're
>coming from, and I don't have to be an educator to figure out where that
>is. In that vein, my opinion that they're wack is as valid as your
>sugar-coated one.
You're opinion that they are wack is not what I have issue with.
You're welcome to you're opinion. I only question it's validity
because the reasons that you've listed are based on falsehoods.
mochaspresso
I don't see how I was pandering. I said that I tend to listen to many
different forms of hip-hop for different reasons. I'm able to see
good and bad in all of those forms.
You seem to be of the mindset that "ghetto youth" pic up the "gangsta
aesthetic" from hip-hop and wanted to bring my job into the
conversation. Well, yes I work in the "ghetto" and from what I see,
they pick it up from the "ghetto". It's the same aesthetic that's
always been in that neighborhood even back when I was a child in the
70's before hip-hop came to be.
People act like drug dealing is a new phenomenon. People act like
songs about pimps and hustlers are a new phenomenon. I guess they
never heard of Curtis Mayfield.
mochaspresso
>A to the L says:
><<wow - what clubs did you go to? lets see, a decade ago would have put
>you right in the middle of Biggie 'One More Chance' territory... a
>decade ago I can't think of ONE concious hiphop record that go serious
>club play...
>maybe you'd like to enlighten us all?>>
>
>Enlightenment...you should know this stuff already. In Philadelphia,
>trust, I've run the gamut when it comes to Hip Hop nightlife. Nas' song
>with Lauryn got major burn in clubs. There's your ONE.
>
"If I Ruled the World" is considered conscious? The first line says
"imagine smokin weed in the streets without cops harassin". Don't get
me wrong. I love that song....but that's not my idea of
positive/"consious" hip-hop.
You'd have been better off going with something by Speech/Arrested
Development.
....or maybe that's this is all about....everyone has different ideas?
Sumran
If you're doing what you're
> supposed to as a parent, a 50 cent CD isn't going to damage them for
> life.
Damn right. It fucks me off when someone who goes and shoots up a club
or school then says he was influenced by a certain song, band, game or
film. Then people get up in arms trying to ban it and conveniently
forget that the other 10 million odd people who saw/played the same
music,game or film didnt go shoot anything up.
At the end of the day a 50 cent cd is not going to fuck a kid up the
same as an immortal technique cd isnt going to educate them.
Maybe a bit off the point but i wanted to rant about that :-)
mochaspresso
<mochas...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>You're opinion that they are wack is not what I have issue with.
>You're welcome to you're opinion. I only question it's validity
>because the reasons that you've listed are based on falsehoods.
>
oops. sorry.
Contrary to the above.....I do know the difference between you're and
your.
Jennashaw85
>your.
Damn...why'd you have to point it out before me?? I guess his lack of basic
grammar ties Quest's argument up...