Why do emcees with sales get the top rope huricanranna?
mike_d
I've always wondered why we as hip hop fans always big up hip hop groups until
they become accepted by the mainstream. We love them, they are our heroes, or
at least that is until they get record sales. What if Company Flow went
platinum? Would we start dissing them? What if the Alkaholiks began to
receive radio play? Would they lose their credibility? Would we pull the
Beatnuts ghetto pass if they made a pop song. Emcees are like any one of us,
working hard to make a living. Yet if they take a shortcut to make money, you
claim they sold out. If you're working at the 7-11 and the burger joint
across the street offers you the position of head grill guy for 2 dollars
more an hour, you're gonna jump at the chance. The people at 7-11 aren't gonna clown
you and say you sold out, so why do rappers get dissed for doing it. If you
quit the head grill position for a front desk position, you're not sacrificing
your integrity, you are making a smart career choice. The guys at the
burger joint won't say you're not keeping it real, they'd do the same damn
thing. So why do we build up our heroes simply so we can knock them down
when they become successful. Suggestions anyone? What do you think when
artists you formerly like make songs for a more pop audience? Let me know?
For anyone thats wondering, the top rope huricanranna is the metaphor I'm
using for this phenomenon. For those who don't know, a top rope huricanranna
is a professional wrestling move. It breaks down like this. A wrestler (the
fans), elevates his opponent (the emcee) to the highest point of the ring...
the top rope (the top of the charts). Once the opponent is perched up on
the top, the wrestler ascends to the top with him. Then, in one swift move,
the wrestler jumps into the air, wraps his legs around his opponents head and
performs a backflip, causing his opponent to flip forward and land flat on
his back. The results are devastating. One minute the emcee...sorry, the
oponent is on top, the next second he is flat on his back and down for the
count. Happens to all the great emcees who try to make some money. DAMMMN
Peace, Mike D
(The Original Hip-Hop-Aholic)
beefcake, BEEFCAKE!!!
Kenneth Hyde
<<What if Company Flow went
platinum? Would we start dissing them? What if the Alkaholiks began to
receive radio play? Would they lose their credibility?>>
If they came with the same ill & obscure production and lyrics, I
wouldn't. There was a time before when I might have, but at this point I
don't care anymore how much a certain artist sells, just as long as the
quality is not compromised.
Mr. Hyde
Wise Rebel
>Would we pull the Beatnuts ghetto pass if they made a pop song.
To late.
Wise
"I don't discriminate color or sex." - WordsWorth
Representing Fayettenam NC
Check out Fusion at:
Wise Rebel
>If they came with the same ill & obscure production and lyrics, I wouldn't.
>There was a time before when I might have, but at this point I don't care
>anymore how much a certain artist sells, just as long as the quality is not
>compromised.
Ditto.
SMysterio5
>>Would we pull the Beatnuts ghetto pass if they made a pop song.
>
>To late.
What's going on Wise? First I saw your post saying the Mic Geronimo lp is not
even better than Puff......I just excused that as a large difference in
opinions...Then you say the Beatnuts are "pop?" If you're talking about "off
the books", no its not pop by any means......The beatnuts have never been at
the top of the list when it comes to emcee-ing, but ONE thing they haven't done
is go pop......they do lust the "cream" and "ice", like a lot of their new york
big budget counterparts....and do talk about that & crime profusely on the
lp.....their production talents & longevity helps them shine, not "pop"
music....come on now partna.....
peace!
-mysterio (nc)
"you can find me on the internet......."
"f--k the police...comin' straight from the underground"
++Free Mumia Abu-Jamal++
Paul
The closest the Beatnuts came to pop was the song that uses the "Forget Me
Nots" beat or otherwise known as the Men In Black song. However, they
flipped it and made in ten times better with their lyrics.
Paul
http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Boulevard/4299
"Everyday I beat my own previous record for the number of days I've stayed
alive."---George Carlin
SMysterio5 wrote in message
<19980113234...@ladder02.news.aol.com>...
KSG
Mike, D wrote:
>
> I've always wondered why we as hip hop fans always big up hip hop groups until
> they become accepted by the mainstream.
Who is the "we"? I as a hip hop fan big up dope groups regardless.
KRS-1 had an album with Puff and I still think he is one of the dopest
MCs alive. Wu Tang went platinum and I still await a new album by GZA
and Deck. Gots love for Wyclef and OutKast sold pretty well also. Been
a fan of Prince since day one and when he was moving millions still had
love and still gots love for him to this day.
> We love them, they are our heroes, or
> at least that is until they get record sales. What if Company Flow went
> platinum? Would we start dissing them? What if the Alkaholiks began to
> receive radio play? Would they lose their credibility?
What do you mean, "Company Flow went platinum"? Do you mean if
"Funcrusher Plus" sold a millio+ copies? That would be great.
Unfortunately that is unlikely. What is more likely to happen is for
them to sign to a major, get pressured and release an album with more
radio friendly songs that mean less to them, but the label feels could
sell. Then they could go platinum and then yes they would lose
credibility.
> Emcees are like any one of us,
> working hard to make a living. Yet if they take a shortcut to make money, you
> claim they sold out.
Huh?
> If you're working at the 7-11 and the burger joint
> across the street offers you the position of head grill guy for 2 dollars
> more an hour, you're gonna jump at the chance.The people at 7-11 aren't > gonna clown
> you and say you sold out, so why do rappers get dissed for doing it.
Well there is a difference between performing a service job and doing
supposed art.
> If you
> quit the head grill position for a front desk position, you're not sacrificing
> your integrity, you are making a smart career choice. The guys at the
> burger joint won't say you're not keeping it real, they'd do the same damn
> thing. So why do we build up our heroes simply so we can knock them down
> when they become successful. Suggestions anyone? What do you think when
> artists you formerly like make songs for a more pop audience? Let me know?
I don't care if the artists make songs for a more pop audience if it
speaks to me first of all and if it appears to have integrity (is truly
"their" music). Again your analogy crumbles because performing a
service job is not the same as art. No one cares about you flipping
burgers. They don't care if your heart is in it, the don't care if you
send your mom to do it. They just want a burger flipped. Art is
different. They want YOU. If you could bring back an artist from the
dead and some one said he wanted Van Gogh, but someone accidently
brought back Monet the first person might be a little mad. Money can
paint, but its not the same as Van Gogh. Now consider burger flippers.
You could resurrect a burger flipper. No one cares if you bring back
Joe, Tom, Dick or Harry. Just bring back someone who flips them. Art
is not flipping burgers (well maybe contemporary art is).
> Happens to all the great emcees who try to make some money. DAMMMN
Nope it happens to all the MCs who put money over their art. That's
fine if thats what you want to do. Many people think money is more
important than art. Cool. But I'm not buying albums to make you rich.
If I wanted to give you 10 dollars I couuld write you a check. I
purchase an album for quality music. If you sacrifice your music for
money I'll call you on it everytime.
Remember we each reserve the right to give respect to those we choose.
You can respect people who value their own personal wealth over creating
an enduring piece of art. I choose not to.
--
KSG
The UltraJam Show SRTV Thursdays 8-10pm (Channel 18/Triton Cable)
Bring tha Noize KSDT
SRTV/KSDT: http://scw.ucsd.edu/
Personal: http://www.cs.ucsd.edu/~kgatlin/
"The poor get poorer cause thier mind won't switch from the ghetto."
KRS-1
"It's a great day for genocide. That's the day all the niggas died."
Ice Cube
Wise Rebel
>>>Would we pull the Beatnuts ghetto pass if they made a pop song.
>>To late.
>What's going on Wise? First I saw your post saying the Mic Geronimo
>lp is not even better than Puff......I just excused that as a large
>difference in opinions...
Puff's album is much better than Mic G's album. Mic G had one hype song.
The one Pete Rock produced. Which can't even begin to compare to "Victory".
>Then you say the Beatnuts are "pop?" If you're talking about "off the books",
>no its not pop by any means......The beatnuts have never been at the top of
>the list when it comes to emcee-ing, but ONE thing they haven't done
>is go pop......
I liked the Beatnuts production. It's dope. And no, "Off the Books"
is far from commercial. It's a dope song. But they used the same
beat on one of their tracks as Will Smith used in that Men in Black shit.
If thats not commercial I don't know what is. The wack beat combined with
the beatnuts wack lyrics may just have made the wackest track of 97.
And if you don't think theyr'e gonna release that track as a single your'e
playing yourself.
mike_d
Glad to see you support your artists no matter what KSG. I agree with
some of the corrections you made on my post but I'm stickin by my analogy.
Regardless of the fact that hip hop is art, it's a job, just like flippin
burgers or being a secretary. Who the fuck wants to be an emcee if you
can't get paid for being a fuckin emcee (ODB).
KSG
Mike, D wrote:
>
> Glad to see you support your artists no matter what KSG. I agree with
> some of the corrections you made on my post but I'm stickin by my analogy.
> Regardless of the fact that hip hop is art, it's a job, just like flippin
> burgers or being a secretary. Who the fuck wants to be an emcee if you
> can't get paid for being a fuckin emcee (ODB).
Dont' get me wrong there is nothing wrong with being paid for doing art.
In fact a great portion of our greatest art was comissioned, but at the
same time there is a difference between doing a product for money and
doing art that makes money. I think a better analogy than flipping
burgers is making movies.
Titanic, while I do not love it, I respect it. Cameron basically said,
"Eff it, I may lose money in this venture but this is the story that I
want to tell. I want to do it right." Now while I'm not a super fan of
it I can respect it making money from the perspective that people seemed
to seem Camerons vision and others seem to really love it.
On the other hand Lost World was exploitive garbage. This was no one
visions, not even Chrichton's (sp?). The movie is terrible, one of the
worst of '97. It made $200 million faster than Titanic (I think it made
200 million faster than any other movie except ID4). There is no heart
in it. It is a Hollywood creation and they know the masses will flock
to see a movie that has certain elements in it (ie CGI).
I see Titanic is like ATLiens (except I really really like ATLiens) and
No Way Out is like Lost World. I'm not gonna ride Puffy's jock for
putting out garbage, just like I won't ride Speilberg's jock for Lost
World. Do you see people calling Roger Ebert a player hater cause he
didn't like Lost World? It's just in our little hip hop world where if
you don't suck the xxxx of whoever is making money you are a player
hater or some other stupid name. I respect nice music, period. When
Puffy starts paying me for record sales then I'll give him love.
And hey, just think if ODB doesn't get paid for his next album maybe
he'll stop "emceeing".
BSE
KSG wrote:
> But I'm not buying albums to make you rich.
> If I wanted to give you 10 dollars I couuld write you a check. I
> purchase an album for quality music. If you sacrifice your music for
> money I'll call you on it everytime.
Whats up man, you tryin to get another quote In my sig?
That sounds like Common.
> If I wanted to give you 10 dollars I couuld write you a check.
Damn, your a poet, and you know it.
Peace, BSE.
Yo tape yourself saying that and then send it to me and Ill sample it on
some dope reocrd.
--
----BSE-----------------------------------------
"Larry Bird has more soul
than 90% of the writers for the Source." - KSG
__________________BSE hip hop___________________
_____________ http://www.bseuk.com _____________
NEWS * UK HIP HOP * UNDERGROUND * QUOTES * LINKS
ERIC B & RAKIM * WU * KRS ONE * QUEENSBRIDGE
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SMysterio5
>>What's going on Wise? First I saw your post saying the Mic Geronimo
>>lp is not even better than Puff......I just excused that as a large
>>difference in opinions...
>
>Puff's album is much better than Mic G's album. Mic G had one hype song.
>The one Pete Rock produced. Which can't even begin to compare to "Victory".
HA HA HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Still don't understand
where you're coming from partna.....Mic Geronimo is not about hype songs. He
is an emcee from the heart (for the most part)......Puff is srtictly an
entertainer to make people dance and make loot at the same time...... Don't let
one commercial release dictate your view of the lp. In other words, don't
dismiss my man because of his video....My man even implied that Blunt Records
co-erced & influenced him to work with bad boy....He also said he had about 80%
creative control on "Vendetta".........If you didn't know, this is not his 1st
lp, its his 2nd.......I feel a lot of the Mic Geronimo album, even though some
of the lyrics is repetitive and simplistic.....I posted some comments and
opinions on the lp the day I got it....I gave it a 7.5 out of 10 and I doubt
that'll change much.....Check deja news if you want........Oh well, I guess we
can't get down on everything wise.
<snip> (beatnuts)
>they used the same
>beat on one of their tracks as Will Smith used in that Men in Black shit.
There's debate as to who had it first......Beatnuts might have been aware of
will smith using it and said fuck it, we're gonna make it a b-side....Don't
know though.
>If thats not commercial I don't know what is.
If will smith didn't use it, I doubt you would think that.......It's still
hella commmercial indeed.
<snip>
>And if you don't think theyr'e gonna release that track as a single your'e
>playing yourself.
Nope.....its the b-side to "Do You Believe?"...about a year old already.
>Wise
peace!
-mysterio (nc)
"let me just deal with the facts, (emcees) keep it real in their raps which are
not realistic~perfection in our poetical competitive edge is just a reflection
of how we feel and shit"--Hiero
++Free Mumia Abu-Jamal++
Eroul C.
Mike D wrote:
> Who the fuck wants to be an emcee if you
>can't get paid for being a fuckin emcee (ODB).
Oh wow, another reason to hate ODB..
That's the worst line I ever read. (exagerated, agreed)
There are other things besides money in our tiny universe, and one of
'em is called respect dammit. There's another, it's called having fun
dammit.
dayum,
Eroul C.
ABZ, Antown, Belgium.
mike_d
I don't think the Beatnuts purposely used that Will Smith beat. His song
only came out about a month before their album so it is likely that the album
was finished and pressed already. By then its too late to go back and take
it off the album. Plus I don't think they should have too, they made it
sound ten times better.
BSE
Mike, D wrote:
>
> Glad to see you support your artists no matter what KSG. I agree with
> some of the corrections you made on my post but I'm stickin by my analogy.
> Regardless of the fact that hip hop is art, it's a job, just like flippin
> can't get paid for being a fuckin emcee (ODB).
Me.
Im not an emcee, im a trainee. Strictly holding a haribush in front of
the mirror for now. I can write rhymnes but the voice and flow needs
practise.
If I had the skills Id find another way to pay the bills.
What I mean is, if I was a doep rapper Id be a dope rapper. I wouldnt
try to do anything other than cover my costs. Thats easy for me to say
cos I not scraping the streets for pennys but people who make money out
of hip hop are only broke until they blow up.
OC tole a friend of mine that he would be going back to old OC on his
next album.
He was obviously conscious of the change of direction and did it to get
money, I respect him admitting this and lets hope he and others like him
will go back to thier original sound.
Who the fuck says "The rap game"? Thats a fucked up name.
Peace, BSE.
Wise Rebel
>HA HA HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Still don't
>understand where you're coming from partna.....
Why? Mic G's new album is shit. And you can't tell me with a straight face
that any song on his album can compare to "Victory"
>Mic Geronimo is not about hype songs.
I noticed.
>He is an emcee from the heart (for the most part)......Puff is
>strictly an entertainer to make people dance and make loot at the same
>time......
Then what exactly was Mic G's aim on his latest effort?
>Don't let one commercial release dictate your view of the lp.
I'm not. I got the album (along with Rakim's joint) the first day it dropped.
I picked it up before I picked up Jay Z's album. (While Jay Z's album
didn't really impress me, it was a hell of alot better than Mic G's shit)
I listened to Ra's album and was crazy hyped. Then I threw in Mic G's album
expecting to hear some more butta's. What did I find? A whole album of
shitty songs. "Be like mic"???? What the fuck? That has to be the
wackest song I ever heard. Wacker than the Beatnuts shit I mentioned
earlier. I hate the album cause it's not good, at all.
>In other words, don't dismiss my man because of his video....
I'm not. I'm dissing him for having an album that lacked innovation.
>My man even implied that Blunt Records co-erced & influenced him to
>work with bad boy....
Believe me. He didn't have to. If he was real he would have said:
"Fuck that, I'm not selling out!"
He may have got dropped, but who cares?
Mabey he could have got nice in the independent circut.
I'm not gonna cut him any slack.
>He also said he had about 80% creative control on "Vendetta".........
Well, his 80% was lame as well as the "label made me do it" portion.
>If you didn't know, this is not his 1st lp, its his 2nd.......
Yeah, I know. But it doesn't make much difference.
>I feel a lot of the Mic Geronimo album, even though some of the lyrics
>is repetitive and simplistic.....I posted some comments and opinions
>on the lp the day I got it....I gave it a 7.5 out of 10 and I doubt that'll
>change much.....Check deja news if you want........Oh well, I guess we can't
get >down on everything wise.
Guess not. BUT IT'S ALL GOOD!
WesHub25
one hype song? you don't like LifeNLessons,i think that's the best song on the
album by far.
Wise Rebel
>>they used the same beat on one of their tracks as Will Smith used in that
>>Men in Black shit.
>There's debate as to who had it first......Beatnuts might have been aware of
>will smith using it and said fuck it, we're gonna make it a b-side....Don't
>know though.
Possibly. But it's still commercial.
>>If thats not commercial I don't know what is.
>If will smith didn't use it, I doubt you would think that.......
Ummmm.....Why?
>>And if you don't think theyr'e gonna release that track as a single your'e
>>playing yourself.
>Nope.....its the b-side to "Do You Believe?"...about a year old already.
Opps. Guess I just played myself. I didn't know that.
But thier lyrics are also commercial through out their album.
You don't gotta have recycled beats to be commercial. That thug
shit is trying to appeal to a "Thug" genra of jockers. The same reason
Mobb Deep or Noriega are commercial.
mike_d
I think you missed the whole point of my original post.
Spirit68
>Regardless of the fact that hip hop is art, it's a job, just like flippin
>burgers or being a secretary.
Wrong. There are thousands of people who rhyme for absolutely free because they
love it.
Hip-hop is not a job. How many breakers do you know that get paid to break?
Graf artists that get paid to tag or piece? That's all hip-hop.
Even among rappers, there's plenty of folks that only rhyme when they're
hanging out with friends or rhyme whenever an open mic pops up...
>Who the fuck wants to be an emcee if you
>can't get paid for being a fuckin emcee (ODB).
People with a non-musical source of income who do it for the love. Me, right
now, for instance.
Peace,
Spirit
++++Free Mumia Abu Jamal++++
"Art is what the mind can imagine and the heart knows to be true" - Unknown
SMysterio5
>>HA HA HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Still don't
>>understand where you're coming from partna.....
>
>Why? Mic G's new album is shit. And you can't tell me with a straight face
>that any song on his album can compare to "Victory"
>
No its not shit, and yes I can tell you that with a straight face.
>>Mic Geronimo is not about hype songs.
>
>I noticed.
Two different intended meanings of "hype" here........
>>He is an emcee from the heart (for the most part)......Puff is
>>strictly an entertainer to make people dance and make loot at the same
>>time......
>
>Then what exactly was Mic G's aim on his latest effort?
>
If you're talking about his video for "Nothin Move But The Money"......thats
why I included "for the most part" in parenthesis. Hells yeah, he wanted the
loot just as much if not more then the next man...That IS blantantly obvious.
<heavy snip>
>
>>In other words, don't dismiss my man because of his video....
>
>I'm not. I'm dissing him for having an album that lacked innovation.
>
"lacked innovation".......hmmmmmmmmm...no comment.
....oh yeah, do we have to start all our posts with "in my humble opinion?"
opinions is kinda getting a little strong here.....
>>My man even implied that Blunt Records co-erced & influenced him to
>>work with bad boy....
>
>Believe me. He didn't have to. If he was real he would have said:
>"Fuck that, I'm not selling out!"
>He may have got dropped, but who cares?
>Mabey he could have got nice in the independent circut.
>I'm not gonna cut him any slack.
He did work his way up from the wastelanz in queens in broken down houses &
shooting videos with camcorders all the way to living out "cream" dreams in
hundred thousand dollar videos......Who are we to judge him?....He already
dealt with the independent circuit on his first 12" release......Dropped an
incredibly dope 1st album & a very respectable follow up album, despite its
obvious increase in commercialism......The debate is i believe, how he handled
his business / career moves once his name was internationally
recognized.......I really hate to use the term playa hate, so I won't.......
While you won't see me mimicking puff daddy sayin "keep it movin" over and over
in a big budget video, you will see me have heather hunter and numerous other
females dancin around rubbin all over me....hmmmm... I won't go that far, but I
can't argue with my man. ;)
>>He also said he had about 80% creative control on "Vendetta".........
>
>Well, his 80% was lame as well as the "label made me do it" portion.
>
>>I feel a lot of the Mic Geronimo album, even though some of the lyrics
>>is repetitive and simplistic.....I posted some comments and opinions
>>on the lp the day I got it....I gave it a 7.5 out of 10 and I doubt that'll
>>change much.....Check deja news if you want.....
peace!
mike_d
Just out of curiosity, how the hell is the Beatnuts use of the "Forget me
nots" commercial. Have you heard the lyrics? "Baby if you give me the ass,
maybe you might see some cash, if you think I'm moving too fast, we can lace
this blunt with hash" That's not gonna get radio play. You can censor
verses but songs sound like shit when you censor the chorus. Plus, you ever
think that maybe emcees are not being commercial, they are paying respect to
the music they like. The Beatnuts have never gone for radio play, I just
think that they thought it was a dope beat.
Kenneth Hyde
<<OC tole a friend of mine that he would be going back to old OC on his
next album.
He was obviously conscious of the change of direction and did it to get
money, I respect him admitting this and lets hope he and others like him
will go back to thier original sound.>>
If this true then I guess I'll be getting that next album. "Word...Life"
is still one of my favorite albums. Didn't even think of getting
"Jewels". So I hope this is true....
Mr. Hyde
Wise Rebel
>I think you missed the whole point of my original post.
Don't you hate when that happens?
Wise Rebel
>Just out of curiosity, how the hell is the Beatnuts use of the "Forget
>me nots" commercial. Have you heard the lyrics? "Baby if you give me the
>ass, maybe you might see some cash, if you think I'm moving too fast, we can
>lace this blunt with hash" That's not gonna get radio play.
Yeah...True. It probably won't get any radio play. But I never though,
"I'm F'n you tonight" would be played on the radio.
>You can censor verses but songs sound like shit when you censor the chorus.
>Plus, you ever think that maybe emcees are not being commercial, they are
paying
Ummm....yeah, true.
>respect to the music they like. The Beatnuts have never gone for radio play,
>I just think that they thought it was a dope beat.
Yeah...Mabey.