Fallacy and Fusion: the groundbreaker
Mr Bounce
liveish performance on kiss), but this really doesnt seem to live up
to the "biggest british rap tune of the year" hype...anyone else check
it??
Gavin-X
think its a bit crap really. I heard it first about a monty ago and I'm already
sick of it; the beat's annoying and lyrics inept
I like Fusion and Fallacy, but come on guys...
------------------------------------------------------------
"If it ain't about rap or pussy I don't give a fuck about it" - Copywrite
"All this fucker does is surf the net all day to find links to unreleased
songs" - Some guy
Dave Paget
1. Sounds a bit like a punchy stab oriented NY party joint crossed with
2 step garage music. Sample used sounds like a bastard cousin of
"War" (Huh, what is is good for...) and some Blak Twang production.
2. The beat itself - when it gets going is a very nice aggressive chart
oriented garage tune with hiphop rhythms. File under Angry urban
RnB dance stuff.
3. Fallacy's Emceeing is WANK... sure, his flow fits the stuttered up
nature of the track - but it's on some Bland mention a few labels,
mentiona a bit of this, say nothing - say it quite poorly type flex.
4. Despite Fallacy and Fusions protestations about how narrow minded
people won't get past the "it's garage not hiphop" mentality. Yeah, I
can see this doing well in an "Urban music" venue... but NAH, it's not
hiphop - it's got bits of hiphop in there, but it sounds cheap. The MC
has dumbed himself down, uses a weak version of a So Solid Crew
flow that was taken from some fast flowing american pop-rap... Still
they have most of the uk's rated mc's chatting about how good it is.
5. Fallacy has in recent interviews talked about working with MJ Cole
and having toured the world with him... so it's all about dance
music..
it's rubbed off... piss off back to that crap.
6. Garuanteed to work in a club, garaunteed to do well!
ah well, It's a good chart tune, a decent stab at uk garage taking hiphop
elements... but all in all:
Beats: 4 (hiphop), 6 (garage), 9 (in an urban music club)
Lyrics: 0 (I don't give a toss about the fact you said "evisu")
Flow: 1
---Pete---
the same opinion then music wouldn't be interesting. Groundbreaker isn't
necessarily the best song out there, but I can't knock it - Fallacy & Fusion
are trying something different and they're getting love for it. The title
should give that away. I don't get though, why in the UK is it easier for
people to stomach lines like "Taskmaster burst the bionic zit splitter" than
"Ay yo, now you done know, we do it my way, what I say goes"
As for the piss off back to dance music comment, I thought you knew about UK
hip-hop Dave. If you did, you'd know that Fallacy is a very talented emcee -
he has versatility, something that other uk emcees like any of those in
Aspects, New Flesh or Roots Manuva hasn't. Fusion has always tried to push
hip-hop forward in this country either through his journalistic work by
starting the hip-hop supplement in Echoes or presenting the only show on the
MTV network that used to give airtime to UK hip-hop. He's going for his,
love him or hate him (or what he's doing) he's going for his. As for the MJ
Cole argument, well Rodney P has done tracks with MJ Cole and I don't see
you ripping the shit out of him. At the end of the day, if you are a
lyricist in the UK, there aren't many outlets for you to get paid, and
people have gotta pay those bills. Working with people from another genre of
music opens doors for you and introduces new people to your genre. Look at
the rock mix of Ya Don't See The Signs. Since that, I have seen kids at my
hip-hop club night at The Bomb in Nottingham that I used to see going into
the rock club Rock City.
All for diversity,
---Pete---
Gavin-X
He's right you know, and for the record, he does have hip-hop pedigree,
appearing on tracks from Blak Twang's very first, unreleased, album and being
the only person to last more than a round battling Mad Skillz back in '95...
He's rhymes on 'Groundbreaker' still ain't all that, but he does have the
potential to be dope
Dave Paget
---Pete--- wrote:
> Controversial views there Mr Paget.
Not particularly.
> Can't say I agree but hey, if we all had
> the same opinion then music wouldn't be interesting.
Fair doo's George.
> Groundbreaker isn't necessarily the best song out there,
Well spotted.
> but I can't knock it - Fallacy & Fusion
> are trying something different and they're getting love for it. The title
> should give that away.
I didn't find it that different to most 2step garage, just the way the sample
was used in a jarring stab kind of way, that noise gate interruption restart
type thing... sounds NY jiggy thug hiphop-ish, but faster. The flows are
as I said before - extremely weak, fit the music, but very weak.
> I don't get though, why in the UK is it easier for
> people to stomach lines like "Taskmaster burst the bionic zit splitter" than
> "Ay yo, now you done know, we do it my way, what I say goes"
1. First lyric quote = interesting unorthodox, strange, amusing, well delivered.
2. Don't know this line... looks like an intro to a Blak Twang song where Tony
mumbles something before starting to rhyme.. is this a lyric from
Groundbreaker?
> As for the piss off back to dance music comment, I thought you knew about UK
> hip-hop Dave. If you did, you'd know that Fallacy is a very talented emcee -
Yes - which is a shame why he's done this... with such weak lyrics... he's
trying
to paint some sort of "if you say this is garage and not hiphop, then your
narrow
minded comment" to pre-empt comments like mine. Fallacy has indeed been very
talented, 2 vinyl excursions very well back this statement up. However, I was
responding to this weak lyric, weak flow, so solid crew sounding rap he's just
dropped DESPITE the fact he can drop some very very nice lyrics, and yeah,
his old jarring and hard flow wouldn't have best suited, but this is bullshit.
When
saying he should piss off back to dance music, that was a comment that if he's
going to bring it with this nonsense, then he ought to take it back to the dance
music
he's been doing with MJ Cole, which is probably where and why he started doing
it...
> he has versatility, something that other uk emcees like any of those in
> Aspects, New Flesh or Roots Manuva hasn't.
New Flesh? Juice Aleem is really quite versatile, not my favourite MC by far,
but
I didn't rate him atall until I heard his changes... Toastie Taylor? well I
hated his
lyrics/voice etc... but his singing is quite sweet!... Roots Manuva - reasonably
versatile, even though he hasn't actually tried to be, he's just painted his
personality
and done well with that. Inspite of this - the fact that he's versatile does NOT
take away from the fact that on this track, the inspiration for my statement
about
pissing off back to dance music - he comes completely shit, with shit lyrics,
and a
shit approximation of a weak garage rap.
> Fusion has always tried to push
> hip-hop forward in this country either through his journalistic work by
> starting the hip-hop supplement in Echoes or presenting the only show on the
> MTV network that used to give airtime to UK hip-hop. He's going for his,
> love him or hate him (or what he's doing) he's going for his.
So? I never said anything negative about the guy? I'm talking about his music,
and
your serving me a press release history lesson? There's no love him or hate
him...
Didn't I rate his album VERY highly for Urban music club... and say that as a
hiphop beat it wasn't all that? he can go for his or whatever... none of this is
relevant.
> As for the MJ
> Cole argument, well Rodney P has done tracks with MJ Cole and I don't see
> you ripping the shit out of him.
Rodney P worked with MJ Cole - Great..... Fallacy worked with MJ Cole....
Great - their tracks may have been good great or whatever... that wasn't the
issue - the issue was that if Fallacys transformation into weak lyrics, wank
flow,
wannabe uk 2step garage vocals is in any way due to working and touring with
him - then if he wants to bring that to uk hiphop, a weak garage approximation
of himself, then he shouldn't - he should just make his material and give up on
saying he's "hiphop" this is "hiphop" if you don't like this, and say it's
garage music"
(which it blatantly is, with a heavy hiphop influence) then you are "narrow
minded"
I mean - nah... it's fine for what it is... A uk garage track with an mc with
weak
lyrics, weak flow etc.... is it a good hiphop tune NO.... is it in it's own
genre?
no, not really - but if we want to pretend that X amount of this, and Y amount
of
that makes a new genre - then i'll agree... but again... the point here is this.
Rodney P - Did tracks with MJ Cole... Makes hiphop music - sounds good,
Hasn't completely changed by working with MJ Cole
Fallacy - The one "amazing (tm)" single he's released since working with MJ
Cole isn't really that good, his lyrics are weak, his flow is
weak. it's
a farce to call hiphop.
It isn't the fact he worked with MJ Cole - it's that if his change from dope to
completely wank is down to having worked with dance musicians, then he
should stick to working with dance musicians, so we don't have to put up
with a weak version...
> At the end of the day, if you are a
> lyricist in the UK, there aren't many outlets for you to get paid, and
> people have gotta pay those bills.
So what? the track is crap as a hiphop track, works well in clubs as urban
music,
because at the end of the day it's a uk garage track with a heavy hiphop
influence.
Bills have nothing to do with it.. i'm not criticising them for doing it... but
it's still
a piece of crap lyrically and flow wise... and to say it's a hiphop tune isn't
really
accurate.
> Working with people from another genre of
> music opens doors for you and introduces new people to your genre. Look at
> the rock mix of Ya Don't See The Signs. Since that, I have seen kids at my
> hip-hop club night at The Bomb in Nottingham that I used to see going into
> the rock club Rock City.
Yeah - But at the same time... Did Blade go off with a Rock group for a year,
then come back and start dropping rhymes like Fred Durst at his worst? over
a indie track with hiphop drums, telling everyone that if they didn't like it,
and
if they said it wasn't hiphop and that it was indie... then they were narrow
minded..
> All for diversity,
All for QUALITY
> --Pete---
Dave
Dave Paget
A Monet stickman with a coffee stain on it is NOT a great piece
of work, despite his other most brilliant painting. It is also not
an impressionist painting, despite his past as an impressionist
painting. Nor are people narrow minded for saying that it isn't
very good, isn't an impressionist painting, and that perhaps it
will go down well in the blue peter gallery.
Whether or not Monet or his co-artist have merged influeced/
genres and whether other people who have been famous have
also drawn a stick man, and whether or not a stick man sells
really well - A stickman is a stickman, a coffee stain is a coffee
stain, the picture is shit... and it isn't an impressionist painting...
dig the meta?
Mr Bounce
> >>Fallacy is a very talented emcee
>
> He's right you know, and for the record, he does have hip-hop pedigree,
> appearing on tracks from Blak Twang's very first, unreleased, album and being
> the only person to last more than a round battling Mad Skillz back in '95...
>
> He's rhymes on 'Groundbreaker' still ain't all that, but he does have the
> potential to be dope
>
i think the galling thing is that they seem largely to be a uk-isation
(substitute prada and buberry for gucci et al) of whats going on in
the US. which, i would say, is the same as the beat (UK garridge isnt
too far from some of the priduction styles coming from the US -
especially timabland - anyway).
what i think disapoints me so much is it takes a tune that sounds like
a lot of the stuff from the states that gets into the charts for
people to get excited over a uk group, and that for them *to* get paid
they have to make a tune like this (i readily admit to not having
heard any of their other stuff but im under the impression from what
ive read that it isnt too much like this)...still, if they keep
bringing the UK scene forwards then I'm all for it.
---Pete---
My turn.
> > Controversial views there Mr Paget.
>
> Not particularly.
Sorry. Sarcasm was never my strong point.
> I didn't find it that different to most 2step garage, just the way the
sample
> was used in a jarring stab kind of way, that noise gate interruption
restart
> type thing... sounds NY jiggy thug hiphop-ish, but faster. The flows are
> as I said before - extremely weak, fit the music, but very weak.
To me, it's no different to some Timbaland productions that sound like drum
and bass, but does that make it a drum and bass track? All these Asian
samples in hip-hop, does that just make it a bhangra beat with rapping over
the top.But then again, that's down to your own definition. Me, I think it's
just different. From a production standpoint, UK garage usually has a lot
more keyboards, a lot more bass and a lot less samples.
> 1. First lyric quote = interesting unorthodox, strange, amusing, well
delivered.
>
> 2. Don't know this line... looks like an intro to a Blak Twang song where
Tony mumbles something before starting to rhyme.. is this a lyric from
Groundbreaker?
You got me there. My point was that both made about as much sense as each
other but people will more readily accept Roots' line than Fallacy's line.
Which is what you did. And I wouldn't say that 'Taskmaster burst the bionic
zit splitter' was interesting. I would agree with unorthodox, strange,
amusing and well delivered; but I would add that it was nonsensical and just
was plain crazy. Sounds like the mumblings of a reject from One Flew over
the cuckoo's nest. Fallacy's line has got as much flava delivery wise.
>he's trying to paint some sort of "if you say this is garage and not
hiphop, then your narrow minded comment" to pre-empt comments like mine.
I'd disagree with that, but I suppose I wouldn't if I hadn't had a
conversation with Fusion as to what went into making it. I can see where you
are coming from though.
> When saying he should piss off back to dance music, that was a comment
that if he's going to bring it with this nonsense, then he ought to take it
back to the dance music he's been doing with MJ Cole, which is probably
where and why he started doing it...
which isn't what I got from how you put it previously. I getcha now.
> New Flesh? Juice Aleem is really quite versatile, not my favourite MC by
far,but I didn't rate him atall until I heard his changes...
I don't rate him at all.
>Toastie Taylor? well I hated his lyrics/voice etc... but his singing is
quite sweet!...
He should stick to singing!
>Roots Manuva - reasonably versatile, even though he hasn't actually tried
to be, he's just painted his personality and done well with that.
He's got the same offbeat lyrics and similar flow no matter what kind of
track he rides. On his beats (I mean the ones that are Roots Manuva tracks)
this works. On stuff like the remix to simon says, he sounds dramatically
out of place and just ruins the vibe of the track. That isn't what I'd call
a versatile emcee.
>Inspite of this - the fact that he's versatile does NOT take away from the
fact that on this track, the inspiration for my statement about pissing off
back to dance music - he comes completely shit, with shit lyrics, and a shit
approximation of a weak garage rap.
The reason why I brought up Fallacy's versatility was because the way the
piss off to dance music comment read was that you wanted him to piss off to
dance music. I was trying to say that this is one of Fallacy's many styles -
not his only. On the flipside to the commercial release of the
Groundbreaker, he flips another. On Bling Bling, it's a london ting, he
flips another...
>There's no love him or hate him...
You obviously havent met him!
> Didn't I rate his album VERY highly for Urban music club... and say that
as a
> hiphop beat it wasn't all that? he can go for his or whatever... none of
this is relevant.
It is. He's trying something new - just like Bambaataa did. Just like El-P
does. You don't have to like it, hell, I hate El-P, but you have to respect
them for trying to do something different (grudgingly in El-P's case)
> this is "hiphop" if you don't like this, and say it's garage music"
> (which it blatantly is, with a heavy hiphop influence)
We'll have to agree to disagree.
>is it in it's own genre? no, not really - but if we want to pretend that X
amount of this, and Y amount of that makes a new genre - then i'll agree...
Call me naive, but I thought that was exactly how new genres were created.
Heavy metal is just rock with louder guitars and harsher lyrics. Rock is
just the blues sped up with a stronger beat and less meloncholy lyrics. Drum
and bass is just house clashed with hip-hop breaks sped up....
> Fallacy - The one "amazing (tm)" single he's released since working with
MJ Cole isn't really that good, his lyrics are weak, his flow is weak. it's
a farce to call hiphop.
That is your opinion. I wouldn't fully agree - I don't think the
Groundbreaker is amazing. As my american cousin would say, it's aiight, but
not amazing. The new Rodney P stuff I've heard IS amazing - but the
Groundbreaker is good for UK hip-hop on the whole. Anything that comes out
as UK hip-hop, gets daytime radio one plays and put on regular rotation on
all the top music channels will ultimately benefit UK hip-hop.
> Yeah - But at the same time... Did Blade go off with a Rock group for a
year, then come back and start dropping rhymes like Fred Durst at his worst?
No, but he got shitloads of stick from arseholes claiming he sold out blah
blah blah (and I'm not saying you were one of them Dave, or that you're an
arsehole, I'm just drawing comparisons between the two) He did tour with
Feeder, and he told me that after he toured with Feeder, he'd see a few
feeder fans at strictly mark b & blade gigs. That's ultimately good for UK
hip-hop. Anyone who is into garage that can be converted to hip-hop (and
ultimately saved!)through this is all good with me!
> > All for diversity,
>
> All for QUALITY
We're singing from the same hymn sheet.
---Pete---
Dave Paget
---Pete--- wrote:
> > I didn't find it that different to most 2step garage, just the way the
> sample
> > was used in a jarring stab kind of way, that noise gate interruption
> restart
> > type thing... sounds NY jiggy thug hiphop-ish, but faster. The flows are
> > as I said before - extremely weak, fit the music, but very weak.
>
> To me, it's no different to some Timbaland productions that sound like drum
> and bass, but does that make it a drum and bass track? All these Asian
> samples in hip-hop, does that just make it a bhangra beat with rapping over
> the top.But then again, that's down to your own definition. Me, I think it's
> just different. From a production standpoint, UK garage usually has a lot
> more keyboards, a lot more bass and a lot less samples.
Yeah, i get what you mean here. But I would state that this is a garage tune
with
heavy hiphop influences... it's more of a garage party tune, than a hiphop party
tune with garage influence... A hiphop jam using asian samples isn't bhangra,
but a bhangra beat with rap over the top... actually - it's hard to do the other
way..
due to the "if it's got rap on it, it is rap" school of thought or whatever...
but yeah,
it'd be a bhangra tune with rap on it.
What i'm saying is the following:
The beat is a garage beat, with heavy hiphop influence
The lyrics are very poor
The delivery is performed in a weak garage mc manner.
It just happens to be by 2 people involved in hiphop.
Remember hip-house? it was hiphop with house... or house
with hiphop... hiphop heads rejected it largely, mainly due to
it being pretty crap in most cases... I put Fallacy and Fusions
"groundbreaker" track down as a garage tune with heavy hiphop
influenced made by 2 hiphop guys, the lyrical one offering a very
weak flow/lyrics in the style of a garage mc...
> > 1. First lyric quote = interesting unorthodox, strange, amusing, well
> delivered.
> >
> > 2. Don't know this line... looks like an intro to a Blak Twang song where
> Tony mumbles something before starting to rhyme.. is this a lyric from
> Groundbreaker?
>
> You got me there. My point was that both made about as much sense as each
> other but people will more readily accept Roots' line than Fallacy's line.
> Which is what you did. And I wouldn't say that 'Taskmaster burst the bionic
> zit splitter' was interesting. I would agree with unorthodox, strange,
> amusing and well delivered; but I would add that it was nonsensical and just
> was plain crazy. Sounds like the mumblings of a reject from One Flew over
> the cuckoo's nest. Fallacy's line has got as much flava delivery wise.
Fallacy's line on paper is just some generic chat, Fallacy's delivery the whole
way through that track was just plain abysmal.
> >he's trying to paint some sort of "if you say this is garage and not
> hiphop, then your narrow minded comment" to pre-empt comments like mine.
>
> I'd disagree with that, but I suppose I wouldn't if I hadn't had a
> conversation with Fusion as to what went into making it. I can see where you
> are coming from though.
Read the interview in HHC.... listen to any broadcast where this issue comes up.
he is actually making these statements.
> > When saying he should piss off back to dance music, that was a comment
> that if he's going to bring it with this nonsense, then he ought to take it
> back to the dance music he's been doing with MJ Cole, which is probably
> where and why he started doing it...
>
> which isn't what I got from how you put it previously. I getcha now.
Not my fault you can't read.. hehe
>
> > New Flesh? Juice Aleem is really quite versatile, not my favourite MC by
> far,but I didn't rate him atall until I heard his changes...
>
> I don't rate him at all.
Hmmm.. I heard a few things... good clear voice, flows well enough - nothing
amazing, seeing all the praise he recieved used to annoy me... but I guess
having
heard his more recent stuff I can accept it now.. even though i don't fully
agree
myself
> >Toastie Taylor? well I hated his lyrics/voice etc... but his singing is
> quite sweet!...
>
> He should stick to singing!
Hell Yeah......... I have an old new flesh tune on a disorda tape, he kicks a
verse
then kicks it in reverse (either the whole verse, or each sentence)... it's a
crap
gimmick done badly... with an awful voice - and people rated him for that...
> >Roots Manuva - reasonably versatile, even though he hasn't actually tried
> to be, he's just painted his personality and done well with that.
>
> He's got the same offbeat lyrics and similar flow no matter what kind of
> track he rides. On his beats (I mean the ones that are Roots Manuva tracks)
> this works. On stuff like the remix to simon says, he sounds dramatically
> out of place and just ruins the vibe of the track. That isn't what I'd call
> a versatile emcee.
I disagree, but yeah, he does tend to have the lyrics/flow similar - but he
CAN do different, i've heard it live etc... he just needs to, i guess he'll
get round to it, thing is.. i think he's trying to concrete the current style
he's done, which in all honesty is the reason he's got noticed.
> >Inspite of this - the fact that he's versatile does NOT take away from the
> fact that on this track, the inspiration for my statement about pissing off
> back to dance music - he comes completely shit, with shit lyrics, and a shit
> approximation of a weak garage rap.
>
> The reason why I brought up Fallacy's versatility was because the way the
> piss off to dance music comment read was that you wanted him to piss off to
> dance music. I was trying to say that this is one of Fallacy's many styles -
> not his only. On the flipside to the commercial release of the
> Groundbreaker, he flips another. On Bling Bling, it's a london ting, he
> flips another...
Yeah - but it only applied to this track.
> >There's no love him or hate him...
>
> You obviously havent met him!
Nope... but I don't get that.... doesn't make sense to what i wrote, unless I
have
met him, then i'd get the joke maybe? weirdo. haha
> > Didn't I rate his album VERY highly for Urban music club... and say that
> as a
> > hiphop beat it wasn't all that? he can go for his or whatever... none of
> this is relevant.
>
> It is. He's trying something new - just like Bambaataa did. Just like El-P
> does. You don't have to like it, hell, I hate El-P, but you have to respect
> them for trying to do something different (grudgingly in El-P's case)
He's not trying something new... he's doing a garage track with a heavy hiphop
influence... sure it sounds different... but try tell me it's hiphop - and i
tell you
that the MCing is shite, the lyrics are shite, and the beat is OK... tell me
it's
Garage, and i tell you that nearly all the MCing on all the tracks is shite, so
this
is an ok garage tune....
> > this is "hiphop" if you don't like this, and say it's garage music"
> > (which it blatantly is, with a heavy hiphop influence)
>
> We'll have to agree to disagree.
fair (doggy) doo's
> >is it in it's own genre? no, not really - but if we want to pretend that X
> amount of this, and Y amount of that makes a new genre - then i'll agree...
>
> Call me naive, but I thought that was exactly how new genres were created.
> Heavy metal is just rock with louder guitars and harsher lyrics. Rock is
> just the blues sped up with a stronger beat and less meloncholy lyrics. Drum
> and bass is just house clashed with hip-hop breaks sped up....
Yes, this is how they are created, but I don't think it is a new genre...
I think it's Garage with a hiphop influence... it's not even Garage hop...
It's - Garage drums (GARAGE)
It's - Gar(b)age lyrics (GARAGE)
It's - Garage flow (GARAGE)
It's - Hiphop Influence (Influence is hiphop)
It's - done by two hiphop guys (irrelivant)
To clarify something...
Rock/Rap fusion = Rock Rap
Rap with rock guitars samples/influence = Rap with....
That's the difference between Kid Rock, and early Run DMC tracks.
It's the difference between Whitey Ford (bluesish) and Slug sampling the Blues,
and
doing a bit of warbly singing.
> > Fallacy - The one "amazing (tm)" single he's released since working with
> MJ Cole isn't really that good, his lyrics are weak, his flow is weak. it's
> a farce to call hiphop.
>
> That is your opinion. I wouldn't fully agree - I don't think the
> Groundbreaker is amazing. As my american cousin would say, it's aiight, but
> not amazing. The new Rodney P stuff I've heard IS amazing - but the
> Groundbreaker is good for UK hip-hop on the whole. Anything that comes out
> as UK hip-hop, gets daytime radio one plays and put on regular rotation on
> all the top music channels will ultimately benefit UK hip-hop.
Yeah fine... but your not giving an argument to my opinion... your stating
something
else entirely here... If if does good for UK hiphop - GOOD.. is it Good Uk
hiphop
NO.... Morris Minor and The Majors with Stutter Rap was good for getting people
into hiphop - we're they really MC's NO..... nor was Roland Rat... and yeah...
thing
is though - this isn't hiphop, it's garage with a hiphop influence.
> > Yeah - But at the same time... Did Blade go off with a Rock group for a
> year, then come back and start dropping rhymes like Fred Durst at his worst?
>
> No, but he got shitloads of stick from arseholes claiming he sold out blah
> blah blah (and I'm not saying you were one of them Dave, or that you're an
> arsehole, I'm just drawing comparisons between the two) He did tour with
> Feeder, and he told me that after he toured with Feeder, he'd see a few
> feeder fans at strictly mark b & blade gigs. That's ultimately good for UK
> hip-hop. Anyone who is into garage that can be converted to hip-hop (and
> ultimately saved!)through this is all good with me!
yeha - that's all well and good, and fine..... but we weren't talking about the
merits of having toured with someone, or worked with someone, we were
comparing this to how fallacy came with a wank garage flow.... Blade didn't
do that... the rest of what you wrote is irrelivant to the issue, a comment that
may well be true or merit seperate discussion... but irrelivant to this one all
the same!
> > > All for diversity,
> >
> > All for QUALITY
>
> We're singing from the same hymn sheet.
Yours is upside down and printed in japanese.
(You must have got it at an MJ Cole concert with Fallacy)
---Pete---
ilk. Nor have I liked Aspects or Fleapit or any of those guys. That's
personal taste, just like you don't like Groundbreaker
> Hell Yeah......... I have an old new flesh tune on a disorda tape, he
kicks a verse then kicks it in reverse (either the whole verse, or each
sentence)... it's a crap gimmick done badly... with an awful voice - and
people rated him for that...
I hate that sort of thing. Why rate a third rate emcee for doing a third
rate idea that has been done to do death by people who are so much better
than he ever will be.
> I disagree, but yeah, he does tend to have the lyrics/flow similar - but
he CAN do different, i've heard it live etc... he just needs to, i guess
he'll get round to it, thing is.. i think he's trying to concrete the
current style he's done, which in all honesty is the reason he's got
noticed.
Okay Roots was noticed because of his style, but I don't buy that as a valid
argument as to why he isn't versatile on wax. LL Cool J was noticed because
of his style, but he's changed with the times and still gets love because he
adapts to the track he's on. There's a million and one other emcees that are
noticed because of a style and then use their chance to show that they
aren't one trick ponies. These are usually the emcees who have long careers.
Roots has been at it for a few years - he needs to show that he can vibe on
any track. Taipanic can do it, Rodney can, Skinny can, Scorzayzee can... I
think it's a sign of a good emcee - versatility. He complely ruins the Simon
Says remix. That's a separate debate though - one I'm willing to have if you
are.
> > >Inspite of this - the fact that he's versatile does NOT take away from
the fact that on this track, the inspiration for my statement about pissing
off back to dance music - he comes completely shit, with shit lyrics, and a
shit approximation of a weak garage rap.
He doesn't impress me on it either - the best bit is where he's bigging up
those who came before him. I was just trying to say don't write him off yet
which is what I thought you had done by your dance music comment.
>> > >There's no love him or hate him...
> >
> > You obviously havent met him!
>
> Nope... but I don't get that.... doesn't make sense to what i wrote,
unless I
> have
> met him, then i'd get the joke maybe? weirdo. haha
Should have explained. Fusion is very sometimish as a person - one time he
can completely blank you, another he's the one coming and saying hello. I
know a lot of people who don't like him. That's what that one was about.
> we weren't talking about the merits of having toured with someone, or
worked with someone, we were comparing this to how fallacy came with a wank
garage flow.... Blade didn't do that... the rest of what you wrote is
irrelivant to the issue, a comment that may well be true or merit seperate
discussion... but irrelivant to this one all the same!
I'm up for it. Blade didn't deserve what he got just for a remix that got
exposure. What you thinking?
> > We're singing from the same hymn sheet.
>
> Yours is upside down and printed in japanese.
> (You must have got it at an MJ Cole concert with Fallacy)
Mine's correct. Yours was written by Roots Manuva in a fit of paranoid
psychosis and therefore is full of obscure ramblings and stained by cheese
on toast and split zits!
I'm tired defending Groundbreaker because to tell you the truth, I really
don't like it enough to warrant me going on about it even more. The only 3
reasons why I wanted to comment was because I don't think it's garage, I
think it's hip-hop and further more a blatant rip off of Big Pimping
(obviously without the Asian sample, but similar beat pattern, similar
tempo), I thought you had written off Fallacy as an emcee and I just think
that it's ultimately going be good for UK hip-hop as the more exposure F&F
get over this track, the more exposure UK hip-hop gets and I'm tired of
being ignored by our own country's major media.
---Pete---
Dave Paget
jiggy rhymes done in week styles... you know thats what it's gonna bring...
Bring back Iceberg Slim!
---Pete---
Yes. It does.
>and more weak garage mc's and
> jiggy rhymes done in week styles...
I think you mean weak styles.
> you know thats what it's gonna bring...
No. No I don't. Neither do you. It may bring us another Rodney or Skinny or
Tony or Scorzayzee or Cappo or Roots or Blade or Est'elle or...
> Bring back Iceberg Slim!
Please don't. I heard his album. I'd rather have Darkman back.
---Pete---
Dave Paget
chin out... skinny stick insect weight boxers.
---Pete---
those chin out... skinny stick insect weight boxers.
He just bit Daddy Freddy.
---Pete---
Dave Paget
---Pete---
>
Yes. Always has done, always will.
---Pete---
A to the L
said:
some more info?
http://www.altrap.com/features/interviews/fandf/fandf.html
PEACH
A to the L
Check the sites y'all... www.altrap.com www.raredj.com
"A to the L owns all your stankin asses. Man can rap his ass off. The rest are scrubs." - Fatboy Roberts
"...let's just say that I think that A to the L is an artist because of his ability to quantify different SHITS into words. That's art." - Alvin Smith