Why hip-hop is making a comback in '97

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Hypnotek

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Jun 20, 1997, 3:00:00 AM6/20/97
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In this NG their have been many pessimistic (sp?) feelings towards hip-hop. I
have recently started thinking about our state of affairs, and looking at this
time last year. Things aren't as bad as they seem.

1. Despite a couple of dissapointments, Boogiemonsterz, CoFlow, Cage, Meen Green, and Mike Zoot
have all come correct.

2. Two words: Company Flow. Yeah, I know they've been around awhile, but they're starting
to get the props they deserve.

3. A bunch of new Solesides stuff is coming out this summer.

4. I think we all will be suprised with the quality of Wyclef's new album.

These are all I can think of right now, but it seems that hip-hop is slowly emerging
from it's stagnant period. I think it will come back even stronger due to its struggles.
BTW, to stay less pessimistic turn off commercial Hip-Hop radio, it 's crap, and makes us
think all of hip-hop is this bad.


Peace
-Hypnotek

"You're like school on sunday... No Class."
-Redman


Pushermat1

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Jun 24, 1997, 3:00:00 AM6/24/97
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Hip Hop is making a comeback in the 9-7 cuz the SOUTH IS IN THE HOUSE!
Eightball & MJG, UGK, Mad Flava, Master P, Scarface, Big Mike, TELA oh
shit the list goes on....

Check it though, I seriously agree with the statement about commercial
radio. If you start listening to Hot 97, 97.9 The Box, KMEL, whatever,
you're gonna get a real skewed view of what hip hop truly is in the 9-7.

Straight up...
PEACE
pusherman matt stonedalla

Spirit68

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Jun 27, 1997, 3:00:00 AM6/27/97
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Pushermat posted...

"Hip Hop is making a comeback in the 9-7 cuz the SOUTH IS IN THE HOUSE!
Eightball & MJG, UGK, Mad Flava, Master P, Scarface, Big Mike, TELA oh
shit the list goes on...."

Outkast and Goodie MoB should have been on the top of this list.

B. David Harrison

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Jun 27, 1997, 3:00:00 AM6/27/97
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On Fri, 27 Jun 1997, kari orr wrote:

> why?
>

Well, for those of us not from the south, I like those two are the most
prominant representatives. Although I belive that most of the above
groups are Texas, not Atlanta and Organized Noise. The more heads learn
about the South, the more we'll see the distinction between those groups.
I think that a lot of folks, me included, are very NYCentric and haven't
really learned how to "listen" to South Coast hip-hop.

David Harrison http://weber.u.washington.edu/~wasup
Live from Seattle Anti-Knuckleheadosity: Upated 6/22

"The object of oratory is not truth, but pursuasion"


kari orr

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Jun 27, 1997, 3:00:00 AM6/27/97
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On 27 Jun 1997 06:52:11 GMT, spir...@aol.com (Spirit68) wrote:

>Pushermat posted...
>
>"Hip Hop is making a comeback in the 9-7 cuz the SOUTH IS IN THE HOUSE!
>Eightball & MJG, UGK, Mad Flava, Master P, Scarface, Big Mike, TELA oh
>shit the list goes on...."
>
>Outkast and Goodie MoB should have been on the top of this list.

why?

k. orr
house of phat beats

hip...@mirac.unm.edu

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Jun 27, 1997, 3:00:00 AM6/27/97
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Eightball & MJG's "Candy" is supa-tight!!! I wonder what NY-centric hip-hop
fans think about it. Makes me want to go cruising again. I need to bump that
jam in my ride....even though it doesn't have candy!

question for mass-transit commuters:
When you traveling from point A to point B do you appreciate the experience?
I love driving and would choose it over mass-transit almost every time. Then
again, not everybody can drive and mass-transit is necessary in the big cities.
But do you mass-transit people LIKE taking the bus or subway, or a cab? Or
would you given the chance have your own ride?

I've done mass-tansit and I don't really like it. You're not in command. You
can't set your own pace (faster or slower) and you have to deal even more
closer with people that can be annoying. The only mass-transit I enjoyed was
taking the streetcar in NOLA from school down to Canal Street. Other than that
I'd rather be driving, pumping my own music as loud as I want, and make my
own.

pce-out,
=============THE HIP-HOP ZONE=============
wed. 10-11pm on Community Cable Channel 27
The ONLY hip-hop video show in New Mexico
Andrew Arellano hip...@unm.edu
http://www.unm.edu/~hiphop
======= Aztec-Wreck Productions (c) ======

kari orr

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Jun 30, 1997, 3:00:00 AM6/30/97
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hip...@mirac.unm.edu wrote:
>
> Eightball & MJG's "Candy" is supa-tight!!! I wonder what NY-centric hip-hop
> fans think about it. Makes me want to go cruising again. I need to bump that
> jam in my ride....even though it doesn't have candy!
>
shonuf

> question for mass-transit commuters:
> When you traveling from point A to point B do you appreciate the experience?
> I love driving and would choose it over mass-transit almost every time. T

> pce-out,
>
> Andrew Arellano

anyone who has the choice of driving over taking a bus or a train
will choose personal transportation. it's nice to have that
luxury.

peace
k. orr

Jonathan Dean Ripp

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Jun 30, 1997, 3:00:00 AM6/30/97
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hip...@mirac.unm.edu wrote:

: When you traveling from point A to point B do you appreciate the experience?
: I love driving and would choose it over mass-transit almost every time. Then


: again, not everybody can drive and mass-transit is necessary in the big cities.
: But do you mass-transit people LIKE taking the bus or subway, or a cab? Or
: would you given the chance have your own ride?

Depends on the city.

There is no rush hour in the DC area, just stop hour. 15 minute rides
turn into hour long waits. I like listening to my system but it gets
redundant when you are in stop and go traffic; you need the wind whipping
by you. I would rather be listening to my walkman on the metro (DC's
subway system that goes into the suburbs) cuz then I get the "walkman"
experience which better helps me hear lyrics and some background
music I wouldn't hear in my car.

Ripp

Suave

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Jul 3, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/3/97
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In article <5p1j63$13fo$1...@lynx.unm.edu>, hip...@mirac.unm.edu () wrote:

:Eightball & MJG's "Candy" is supa-tight!!! I wonder what NY-centric hip-hop
:fans think about it. Makes me want to go cruising again. I need to bump that
:jam in my ride....even though it doesn't have candy!

I think it's terrible. Personally, I can't listen to much southern shit
because it bugs me. Outkast and Goodie MOB came with some deep thoughts,
provacative production, and tight flows. Pair that along with some fat
ass southern accents and you have something to listen to. But then look
to the other side of the south: Suave House Records, Master P, all that
shit.

First off, Master P and Sick-Wit-It records.

i was never convinced that people's lifestyles, tastes, musical
preferences/roots, varied so widely until I heard that Master P was coming
up out of the south and moving units like hot cakes. I have not felt a
single one of his songs with the exception of "Is there a heaven..." and
that's only because one of my best friends died around the time I first
heard it and I felt like Master P was talking to me in that one. But the
shit that he puts out...man alive!! The names of the people he puts out
are so stupid and stereotypical. It's like the names of groups the
mainstream press would create. I just don't understand...

Suave House:
When I first saw this enormously fat guy breaking a pooltable under
himself with all these naked women, gold chains, dice, and
playa-stereotypes, I was convinced I had seen the seventh sign, the end of
it all. The advertisements these people come up with. Not to mention
when I first heard their music a short while after: garbito. I actually
grooved to the first song I heard by them but then the stereotype sunk
in. They had the same style over and over again and there was nothing to
feel, no substance to the music at all. I can understand that they run
the south and they are the biggest players ever, yadda, yadda, yadda...but
get over yourself and wake up out of the black stereotype. They are doing
nothing for the culture and they seem to think they can make some laid
back beats to put you to sleep and not say shit, except shit.

Why don't I feel the south? It's not because I have a bias towards other
coasts, I love the west and I respect some of the south but sometimes
people get caught up in making music for their block instead of music for
the culture and it ends up coming out like crap. I can see how some
people can't feel New York mc's who just talk their shit about new york.
The flows and beats may be nice for people in new york but hip hop has
expanded past the 5 boroughs. New york has been doing shit like E-ball
and MJG and Master P for years now on their own terms. Maybe the south is
just making up for lost time...

peace

--
after eight years of my life of hip hop and thinking,
the world keeps spinning, so lately I've been drinking...

Niko Suave

AKA37

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Jul 6, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/6/97
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Wyclef's new album is good. I didn't expect it to be but was surprised,
try it, it's worth the listen. I don't think hip-hop ever "died" it merely
slowed down. I'm a true fan of rap. More new artist are coming out now
than ever, too bad most of them are no good or are one hit wonders. OH
YEAH, YOU CAN'T CONVINCE ME THAT FOXY BROWN WRITES HER OWN LYRICS. THEY
SOUND TOO MUCH LIKE NAS!!!

Steve S. Jackson

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Jul 7, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/7/97
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hip...@mirac.unm.edu wrote:
: question for mass-transit commuters:

: When you traveling from point A to point B do you appreciate the experience?

On mass-transit, not really. Only if I'm on a route I haven't traveled
before.

: I love driving and would choose it over mass-transit almost every time. Then
: again, not everybody can drive and mass-transit is necessary in the big cities.
: But do you mass-transit people LIKE taking the bus or subway, or a cab?

Like it? No. But I'm used to it. I'll be damned if I take a cab.
cab's are mad expensive and you can't really listen to your walkman in a
cab. I think that's the only reason I don't mind public
transportation. I get to listen to my walkman constantly.

: Or would you given the chance have your own ride?

depends on where I'm going. I would never drive in downtown Philly for
the simple fact that there's only parking lots (which are also mad
expensive) and street parking is almost non-existent. But if I'm just
going to a friend's, or to a park, than yeah, I'd drive.

:
: I've done mass-tansit and I don't really like it. You're not in command. You


: can't set your own pace (faster or slower) and you have to deal even more
: closer with people that can be annoying. The only mass-transit I enjoyed was
: taking the streetcar in NOLA from school down to Canal Street. Other than that
: I'd rather be driving, pumping my own music as loud as I want, and make my
: own.

That's the beauty of a walkman. You can pump as loud as you want and
just be in your own world. YOu can bob ya head, clap ya hands,
dowahtchalike, and the most that'll happen is people'll look at you
funny. But it doesn't matter 'cause you got your own thang.

-- "da One & Only"
Steve S. Jackson
(Instrumentalist, Lyricist, Philosopher, Poet)

"Life is a song. Sing loud and know the words."\X/ O |_

sjac...@nimbus.temple.edu
sjac...@vm.temple.edu
sjac...@thunder.temple.edu
http://thunder.ocis.temple.edu/~sjackson

Official I-Phunk Homepage:
http://thunder.ocis.temple.edu/~sjackson/iph.html

Miotch!

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Jul 7, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/7/97
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Steve S. Jackson (sjac...@thunder.temple.edu) wrote:
: : I love driving and would choose it over mass-transit almost every time. Then

: : again, not everybody can drive and mass-transit is necessary in the big cities.
: : But do you mass-transit people LIKE taking the bus or subway, or a cab?

: Like it? No. But I'm used to it. I'll be damned if I take a cab.
: cab's are mad expensive and you can't really listen to your walkman in a
: cab.

I don't know anybody who isn't MAD rich or desperate who takes a cab on a
regular basis...

: I think that's the only reason I don't mind public

: transportation. I get to listen to my walkman constantly.

True, as somebody else pointed out, you get the "walkman experience" which
lets you catch all the lyrics and background stuff in the track. That's
when I really appreciate my music...when I'm wearing my headphones.

: : Or would you given the chance have your own ride?

I've got my own ride. But you have to pay for parking (couple of bucks a
day) plus gas and the occasional repair if you use it to get to work.

For me, the 3 bucks ($1.50 each way) I spend on the subway is much more
worth it. It's also quicker sometimes.

If I'm going to the movies, or the mall, or someplace on the outskirts of
Atlanta, I drive.

: That's the beauty of a walkman. You can pump as loud as you want and

: just be in your own world. YOu can bob ya head, clap ya hands,
: dowahtchalike, and the most that'll happen is people'll look at you
: funny. But it doesn't matter 'cause you got your own thang.

True, true...I LOVE THAT SHIT!!!


Mitch
--
Mitch Kispert
cco...@prism.gatech.edu

Georgia "Well I'm beyond critical mass, feel the lyrical blast
Institute of Vex the Vortex, man of the past
Technology Livin' in the present, and walkin' in the future,
H20's the flow as I dilute ya"
--Boogiemonsters (Vex), "Strange"

Seen as one of the "multilingual" greetings in the lobby of my Graduate
Student dorm: "BREAK YOURSELF, FOOL!"

rai...@swbell.net

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Jul 10, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/10/97
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In article <ndt2-03079...@cu-dialup-0001.cit.cornell.edu>,
nd...@cornell.edu (Suave) wrote:

> In article <5p1j63$13fo$1...@lynx.unm.edu>, hip...@mirac.unm.edu () wrote:
>
> :Eightball & MJG's "Candy" is supa-tight!!! I wonder what NY-centric hip-hop
> :fans think about it. Makes me want to go cruising again. I need to bump that
> :jam in my ride....even though it doesn't have candy!
>
> I think it's terrible. Personally, I can't listen to much southern shit
> because it bugs me. Outkast and Goodie MOB came with some deep thoughts,
> provacative production, and tight flows. Pair that along with some fat
> ass southern accents and you have something to listen to. But then look
> to the other side of the south: Suave House Records, Master P, all that
> shit.
>
> First off, Master P and Sick-Wit-It records.


Sick-Wit It is outta Kali playa. And we ALL famlee down this way blood,
it aint no otha side of the South.


> i was never convinced that people's lifestyles, tastes, musical
> preferences/roots, varied so widely until I heard that Master P was coming
> up out of the south and moving units like hot cakes. I have not felt a
> single one of his songs with the exception of "Is there a heaven..." and
> that's only because one of my best friends died around the time I first
> heard it and I felt like Master P was talking to me in that one. But the
> shit that he puts out...man alive!! The names of the people he puts out
> are so stupid and stereotypical. It's like the names of groups the
> mainstream press would create. I just don't understand...

I feel exactly the same way bout most eastcoast hip-hop groups.
All those snare drums makin racket, cheesy horn riffs, and a bunch of
weak hoe-type niggaz 'freestylin' (yeah right) and playa-hatin' on otha
niggaz cuz they know how to make money while doin whut they love
(hip-hop). A good example would be Craig G on RAP CITY. He played
himself. FOR REAL.


"Make money like I'm Down South.." Jay-Z

Now as far as corny names, thats a given for hip-hop in general.

Just look at the names of the niggaz from WU. Somebody might beat yo azz
you tell em yo name wuz Ol Dirty Bastard down this way....

You probably wouldn't believe it if you listen to Kari (no dis
intended) but hardly any eastcoast music gets played where I'm
at.(Houston TEXAS)

Most people down here had NEVER even heard of Nas when 'If I ruled the
world' came out. Most niggaz down this way also couldnt tell you anotha
song that Nas made either. I know plenty of Folks who LOVE Master P. The
main reason being that he aint no studio nigga, he REALLY did that shit.
Down South, most people root fo the GETO CELEBS. Racism is still thick
like the humidity potna.

Down South, niggaz WILL check yo nutz playa, all that studio bullshit
don't hold. You rap that gangsta shit, yo betta be down fo yo crown or a
nigga'll TAKE YO SHIT.

"The outkast, I robs witout the mask,
the same nigga make the car run witout the gas,
So watch yo azz, I'll blast you in a flash...
GIMME DAT!!!
Whatchu doin wit some CASH?!" --Polo from KockDzel (Tennessee)


Eastcoast niggaz also use the same rap cadance for the most part IMO

(I call it 'biddy-biddy rap' cuz that's how most of the MCs sound to me,
like Tweeky off BUCK ROGERS. A good example of this style is the gal who
raps on BLACKSTREET's no diggity. Then too, i caint overstand a damn thang
half those niggaz say)

"Hard times make hard-headz in the SOUTH,
you get respect being REAL--NO SELL-OUT!!!" --MJG

If you a man and you mean whut you say, SPEAK CLEARLY.

Also, most music from Down South is made fo the SLAB, meaning to play in
the RIDE own a tight system. You caint even HEAR half the beats in a song
if you listen to it on a walkman, cuz the music is MADE for hard-hittin
systems. Most people out east dont feel this cuz they dont ride in carz
they use mainly use mass transit

> Suave House:
> When I first saw this enormously fat guy breaking a pooltable under
> himself with all these naked women, gold chains, dice, and
> playa-stereotypes, I was convinced I had seen the seventh sign, the end of
> it all. The advertisements these people come up with. Not to mention
> when I first heard their music a short while after: garbito. I actually
> grooved to the first song I heard by them but then the stereotype sunk
> in. They had the same style over and over again and there was nothing to
> feel, no substance to the music at all. I can understand that they run
> the south and they are the biggest players ever, yadda, yadda, yadda...but
> get over yourself and wake up out of the black stereotype. They are doing
> nothing for the culture and they seem to think they can make some laid
> back beats to put you to sleep and not say shit, except shit.

I have yet to listen to a eastcoast group (in the 90's) outside of
Gangstarr, Organized Konfusion, the ROOTS and a couple othaz that had
ANYTHANG to say that wuz relevant to my life. They all sound EXACTLY
alike to me. Most try to bite Wu or are studio punkz like Mobb DEEP. But
becuz they are eastcoast, they are labeled hard-core hip-hop, not
gangsta rap.

Also SUAVE HOUSE has some of the best lyricists pound fo pound out there.
Thorough, Crime Boss, Mr. Mike, Nola, Tela, Eightball & MJG all can flow
wit the best of em.

Whut's wrong wit BLACK stereotypes anyway?? Especially if its bout
being YOUNG, BLACK, ALIVE, AND LEGALLY RICH. Most big playaz like
Eightball & MJG, etc. REALLY OWN the shit they rap bout. The candy and
the wood, etc. they aint rentin cars/houses for videos, THEY OWN SHIT.
That's SCARFACE's REAL HOUSE in the BIG MIKE its all a dream video. Just
like that's E-40's REAL house in Playaz ball.
The media has most people brainwashed into believing stereotypes of all types.
Its better than being stereotyped a young criminal or 'super predator'

Then there's the CORN-BALL factor. All those niggaz in the eastcoast
'hip-hop inner circle' who get big propz from all the magazines, video
shows etc. cuz they labels dump big money into puttin them on. Then they
put out half-azz shit.

examples: Busta Rhymes, Rampage, Redman, Chino, anybody who getz the
first review in the SOURCE (Usually wit 4.5 mics)

Whut eva happened to EARNING YOUR RESPECT??
Nas went from Half-time to being Pablo Escobar.
Most artists Down South have PAID DUES for years by the time they get ANY
national attention.
A bunch of corny niggaz who wear funny colored baggy clothes and hip-hop
dreadz, funny lookin hockey jerseys, and sports gloves...
all that camoflague and bullshit. You niggaz need to get a fade and a
job, holla at some women....DO SOMETHANG. But i forgot ya'll are too busy
KEEPIN IT REAL.

And if you think laid back is bad, you would even begin to fathom or
overstand SCREW at all......It would be like you were hearing
Japanese.....

This is my personal KICKER: The REALITY FACTOR.

When I listen to an MC i listen fo the CONVICTION in his/her voice. That's
whut makes them good to the PLAYAZ down Southside...how SERIOUS they are
bout whut they say.
erebody thinks that PLAYA shit is a corny stereotype...nigga there are
some BOSS PLAYAZ networkin all over the SOUTH 4 REAL.
Niggaz Down South aint tryin to hear none of that shit bout this system
here in Babylon. GANGSTERISM is deeply rooted Down this way potna, cuz fo
the most part there aint no middle class. You either BROKE or paid. There
are plenty of niggaz Down South strugglin in the GETO. who view the GAME
as a WAR...If you been BROKE or LOCKED you'd Overstand.

I'm talkin bout HOODLUMS, THUGS, CONS, NIGGAZ and all the otha labels
whitefolks can put own us.


"2 be a PIMP or a muthafuckin HOE...
And I wuz taught that back in the GAP so,
I hang around niggaz that much much older
i guess thats why i gotz this tight head own my shouldaz
Erebody done SLANGED & BANGED and did thangs to MAINTAIN
But the life of a G can REALLY CHANGE
So if i gotta WORK then I busts my AZZ
And if i gotz to HU$TLE then I makes my CASH
Time might pass and I might neva rich
BUT YOU BET I WONT GO OUT LIKE A TRICK
If life is whut you make then well make it a BITCH
And neva will i switch
STREET GAME is the SHIT
We twist and we turn and you might get burned
ITS THE *GAME* YOU HAVENT LEARNED
So i'm just concerned...
About my homiez own the CUT..WASSUP
And all of my niggaz TRUE to whatchu doin..STAY UP
Who peeped how they gotz the hood set-up
Seems they wont let up
TAKES MO THAN TALK TO MAKE THE SYSTEM GET UP!!!" --KottonMouth

PLAYA shit is mo than pimpin hoez and slammin Lac doez...I thought I said
this sometime last year...

Niggaz Down South aint tryin to hear that FAST SHIT either. Relax,
relate, release....That's cuz the Black Church is still rooted here as
well. Spirtuality, gospel, and Blues playboy. I garawn-tee if you come
Down South, you'll slow yo azz down too. Best to get you some of that
LEAN and get SCREWED OUT...

"I'm Draped UP & DRIPPED OUT Knowhuti'mtalkinbout??" --Lil KeKe, from PIMP
THE PEN



> Why don't I feel the south? It's not because I have a bias towards other
> coasts, I love the west and I respect some of the south but sometimes
> people get caught up in making music for their block instead of music for
> the culture and it ends up coming out like crap.


Thats whut NY's BEEN doin fo YEARZ. Like 2Pac said own the THUG IMMORTAL,
all NY niggaz rap bout is the science and the burroughs. I've been to NY,
i lived in BROOKLYN for 2 months. I also been locked down and i learn bout
the science. all y'all REALLY need to get out and see that y'all are
really in the MINORITY as far a hip-hop is concerned. It just dont seem
like it cuz you live in a spot that has a high concentration of hip-hop in
a small area.

I can see how some
> people can't feel New York mc's who just talk their shit about new york.
> The flows and beats may be nice for people in new york but hip hop has
> expanded past the 5 boroughs. New york has been doing shit like E-ball
> and MJG and Master P for years now on their own terms. Maybe the south is
> just making up for lost time...
>


See this is whut eastcoastcentrics fail to realize...

WE BEEN DOIN THIS SHIT FO YEARZ TOO FOOL!!

YOU are just makin up fo lost time on OUR style...WE already heard yo side
of the story...now listen to OURS. If you REALLY playa-made, you would
OVERSTAND that we been doin this shit on OUR own terms fo YEARZ too. (The
Geto Boys first album came out in 1987.) Its just that the biased
eastcoastcentric media is just starting to pay attention becuz YOU HAVE TO
GIVE PROPS WHERE PROPZ IS DUE

Actually more so (on our own terms that is), becuz we dont have Madsion
Ave and all the big record companies. Down South, people put in work,
hustle, and start their own labels cuz white folkz down this way aint
really tryin to hear that shit...


> peace
>
> --
> after eight years of my life of hip hop and thinking,
> the world keeps spinning, so lately I've been drinking...
>
> Niko Suave


"Now I be back up in dat azz wit my G street skillz
Relatin' REAL wit all my NIGGAZ...
keep own huntin' fo MEALS
Different STATES--TRU G'z got the SOUTH own lock (whut bout the set trip?)
Whatchutalkinbout???
REAL G'z go GET IT
REAL G'z dont QUIT IT
REAL G'z stick WIT IT
**While THOSE OPPOSED DONT FEEL IT**
NETWORKIN' WE AINT JERKIN ROUND PUTTIN IT DOWN
Quickest way to get yo azz KILT
Step outta bounds nigga!!!

GULF COAST!! GULF-GULF COAST!!"

-- D of Trinity Garden Cartel, from the song GULF COAST(Southern style)

note: To the tune of South Bronx by BDP

Stay UP!!



**This document was created using EBONICSv2.0 by:

OverTIME, " 3rd COAST. Comin' Down.....DEEP...& Dirty foe dat SOUTH
Gleem'N & Lean'N from WORLD-WIDE TEXAS
That's PLEXUS 4 ya'll HATERZ!!"

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ITS ALL IN THE GAME.
all rights reserved

Miotch!

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Jul 11, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/11/97
to

rai...@swbell.net wrote:

: Also, most music from Down South is made fo the SLAB, meaning to play in


: the RIDE own a tight system. You caint even HEAR half the beats in a song
: if you listen to it on a walkman, cuz the music is MADE for hard-hittin
: systems. Most people out east dont feel this cuz they dont ride in carz
: they use mainly use mass transit

Which makes it like booty-music...there isn't anything wrong with that,
but it sure isn't creative or innovative...

: I have yet to listen to a eastcoast group (in the 90's) outside of


: Gangstarr, Organized Konfusion, the ROOTS and a couple othaz that had
: ANYTHANG to say that wuz relevant to my life. They all sound EXACTLY
: alike to me. Most try to bite Wu or are studio punkz like Mobb DEEP. But
: becuz they are eastcoast, they are labeled hard-core hip-hop, not
: gangsta rap.

You're listening to the wrong stuff. Wu is on some pop shit. So is Mobb
Deep. I think it's good that you listed the Roots because it's a good
starting point. Try Boogiemonsters, Latyrx, De La Soul, etc. They
actually have something to say...

: Also SUAVE HOUSE has some of the best lyricists pound fo pound out there.


: Thorough, Crime Boss, Mr. Mike, Nola, Tela, Eightball & MJG all can flow
: wit the best of em.

Flow, maybe. Lyrics, HELL NO. Do you know the difference?

: The media has most people brainwashed into believing stereotypes of all types.

So we should just accept this, and not try to change it?

: Then there's the CORN-BALL factor. All those niggaz in the eastcoast


: 'hip-hop inner circle' who get big propz from all the magazines, video
: shows etc. cuz they labels dump big money into puttin them on. Then they
: put out half-azz shit.

You're pretty much referring to all that bullshit pop that you hear on
MTV.

: examples: Busta Rhymes, Rampage, Redman, Chino, anybody who getz the


: first review in the SOURCE (Usually wit 4.5 mics)

Chino XL isn't east coast. Which makes me wonder...how many of the
artists that you list have you actually HEARD (outside of radio)?

: A bunch of corny niggaz who wear funny colored baggy clothes and hip-hop


: dreadz, funny lookin hockey jerseys, and sports gloves...
: all that camoflague and bullshit. You niggaz need to get a fade and a
: job, holla at some women....DO SOMETHANG. But i forgot ya'll are too busy
: KEEPIN IT REAL.

So now you're going to attack what they *wear*? I don't see how this is
relevant.

: When I listen to an MC i listen fo the CONVICTION in his/her voice. That's


: whut makes them good to the PLAYAZ down Southside...how SERIOUS they are
: bout whut they say.

So you think the "playaz" down south sound more "real" than others? When
they're rapping about shit that they actually *did* (at most) half of?

: Niggaz Down South aint tryin to hear that FAST SHIT either. Relax,

: relate, release....That's cuz the Black Church is still rooted here as

You're going to relate the church to southern "playa" music? The same
shit that talks about dealin', robbin' people, and "pimpin'"?

THIS should be interesting...

: See this is whut eastcoastcentrics fail to realize...

: WE BEEN DOIN THIS SHIT FO YEARZ TOO FOOL!!

Not nearly as long as they've been doing it in New York...

: YOU are just makin up fo lost time on OUR style...WE already heard yo side


: of the story...now listen to OURS. If you REALLY playa-made, you would
: OVERSTAND that we been doin this shit on OUR own terms fo YEARZ too. (The
: Geto Boys first album came out in 1987.)

10 years!?!? Hip-hop's been up in NY since the seventies or even
earlier...

: Its just that the biased


: eastcoastcentric media is just starting to pay attention becuz YOU HAVE TO
: GIVE PROPS WHERE PROPZ IS DUE

Who says they're due? Maybe the shit just sells because it's offensive.
See Death Row Records....


Now, besides the fact that you didn't provide a whole lot of support for
your views, you used all that "playa" speak AND ACTUALLY TYPED IT.

That shit sounds forced.

I know that's how people speak...that's how they speak here. But this is
the damn internet, kid. If you want to convince me, you've got to come
with some intelligence. I'm sure you're capable...

Rick2234

unread,
Jul 11, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/11/97
to

raiseup wrote:
>>>Down South, niggaz WILL check yo nutz playa, all that studio bullshit
>>>don't hold. You rap that gangsta shit, yo betta be down fo yo crown or
a
>>>nigga'll TAKE YO SHIT.
When we talk about hip-hop, we have to recognize the situations of the
culture and not just the music. In a way, I feel what you're saying
raiseup. If you look at the lines I quoted, he's just telling the truth.
Now I don't know about "take yo shit" but in the South, as in a lot of
real projects and urban areas, Blacks and the poor in general are really
needing money...seriously.

And a lot of these people (I hate the way that sounds) first start flowing
about stuff they don't have, and then once they get the money, their
skills are honed in to rapping about that material type stuff so that's
what they go on. Even KRS-One said that the formula of being successful
in the industry is once you make your money the first time in hip-hop just
repeat what you did the first time in the future.

Plus, your skills are built up by trying to out MC the other MC, so it's
no surprise that rappers from the same area sound similar.

ANYWAY, I need to work on making sure the things I say don't ramble, but
my point is that when I hear Master P and Tru, who I don't like, I can't
just say man, they have no skills. Instead, it makes me realize how bad
things are, especially for black people in general. I mean, this brotha
who was talking before said he was in jail...how many others on this
newsgroups have been in jail (no I have not!).

I just hope that all of the people on here who claim that hip-hop is their
life will go to the areas where they hate the music the most and try and
improve the situation. If some of you all become businessmen/women it
could be constructing positive projects in the areas, or if you become an
MC or an Exec (which I hope a lot of people on here will look into), don't
be scared to network, and go talk to say the future Master P. Find out
why he does what he does, and then you can talk about why you wish he'd so
this or that (or you could represent on the mic and tell the world about
the challenges that other rappers had to go through along with your
challenges)...maybe I'm in a fantasy world, but too many on this newsgroup
act like everyone in hip-hop is as fortunate as WE are and therefore
should be more honest with themselves and hip-hop...what if they are?

well...to some degree...because I know a lot of these MCs are going too
far with this just for the money, which goes back to my first point.

Rick

Did anything I say make sense?!?

rai...@swbell.net

unread,
Jul 11, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/11/97
to

>:rai...@swbell.net wrote:

>: Also, most music from Down South is made fo the SLAB, meaning to play in


>: the RIDE own a tight system. You caint even HEAR half the beats in a song
>: if you listen to it on a walkman, cuz the music is MADE for hard-hittin
>: systems. Most people out east dont feel this cuz they dont ride in carz
>: they use mainly use mass transit

>Which makes it like booty-music...there isn't anything wrong with that,


>but it sure isn't creative or innovative...


First of all, you act like booty music and Southern hip-hop are the
same. ITS NOT.
Plus, whut makes you thank that even booty music isn't creative?


>: I have yet to listen to a eastcoast group (in the 90's) outside of


>: Gangstarr, Organized Konfusion, the ROOTS and a couple othaz that had
>: ANYTHANG to say that wuz relevant to my life. They all sound EXACTLY
>: alike to me. Most try to bite Wu or are studio punkz like Mobb DEEP. But
>: becuz they are eastcoast, they are labeled hard-core hip-hop, not
>: gangsta rap.

>You're listening to the wrong stuff. Wu is on some pop shit. So is Mobb


>Deep. I think it's good that you listed the Roots because it's a good
>starting point. Try Boogiemonsters, Latyrx, De La Soul, etc. They
>actually have something to say...


I OWN all of the above named records. I work in a radio station. De La
Soul is okay, so are the Boogiemonsters. You missed my ENTIRE point. I
responded to this post cuz the dude wuz rankin on the South and makin
sweeping generalizations, so I did the same to show him it how it could
work both ways.

>: Also SUAVE HOUSE has some of the best lyricists pound fo pound out there.


>: Thorough, Crime Boss, Mr. Mike, Nola, Tela, Eightball & MJG all can flow
>: wit the best of em.

>Flow, maybe. Lyrics, HELL NO. Do you know the difference?

You are crazy. Mr.Mike, Thorough, Crime Boss, Eightball & MJG all can
flow AND have lyrical skills.
Its all in the beholder though. I'll say it again, whut THESE artists
say is relevant to MY life.
Why dont you tell me whut YOUR definition is so I can overstand where you
comin from....
tell me, IYO then whut the difference is.


>: The media has most people brainwashed into believing stereotypes of all
types.

>So we should just accept this, and not try to change it?

You aint listenin again. My whole point in sayin this wuz to address this
VERY point, to NOT accept it.
Your boy made a sweepin generalization and stereotyped the South becuz
he believes the stereotypes.


>: Then there's the CORN-BALL factor. All those niggaz in the eastcoast


>: 'hip-hop inner circle' who get big propz from all the magazines, video
>: shows etc. cuz they labels dump big money into puttin them on. Then they
>: put out half-azz shit.

>You're pretty much referring to all that bullshit pop that you hear on
>MTV.


No i'm not. I wuz talkin bout ALL of em. I made anotha generalization to
show how the shit can work both ways again. Its all good for an
eastcoastcentric to do this, but hoe-types getz they panies in a wade
when the shit bounces back at em. And it dont matter if its on MTV or
not, they are STILL eastcoast artists, and THAT wuz my point.

>: examples: Busta Rhymes, Rampage, Redman, Chino, anybody who getz the


>: first review in the SOURCE (Usually wit 4.5 mics)
>

>Chino XL isn't east coast. Which makes me wonder...how many of the
>artists that you list have you actually HEARD (outside of radio)?


Chino IS eastcoast-styled. I said this befoe, I work in a radio station
and I listen to ALL of the music, from beginning to end, not just a
couple seconds from each track. I always listen and try to overstand
whut somebody sayin, unlike the dude who made the post i originally
responded to.

>: A bunch of corny niggaz who wear funny colored baggy clothes and hip-hop


>: dreadz, funny lookin hockey jerseys, and sports gloves...
>: all that camoflague and bullshit. You niggaz need to get a fade and a
>: job, holla at some women....DO SOMETHANG. But i forgot ya'll are too busy
>: KEEPIN IT REAL.

>So now you're going to attack what they *wear*? I don't see how this is
>relevant.

This is relevant becuz it is a direct respond to the attack made on
Southern hip-hop.
Ol boy wuz dissin playaz, etc. He dissed our manner of communicating. Why
is THAT relevant? and he dissed OUR appearance as well, I just volleyed it
back to make him overstand that once again it works both wayz.


>
>: When I listen to an MC i listen fo the CONVICTION in his/her voice. That's


>: whut makes them good to the PLAYAZ down Southside...how SERIOUS they are
>: bout whut they say.
>

>So you think the "playaz" down south sound more "real" than others? When
>they're rapping about shit that they actually *did* (at most) half of?


Yes I do. They sound more real becuz they ARE. I can see through a
bullshit muthafucka like they made of GLASS potna. Plus, I have talked
to and interviewed plenty of Southern artists. And whut makes you think
they only did half of whut they rap bout??
If thats the case i could say the exact same thang bout eastcoast artists
as well.
I caint convince you, its probably somethin you would have to SEE. Come
down here goto a coupla clubs etc. You'll see its all REAL. which can
be both good and bad (subjective terms), but at least its TRUE.
Stop living in an eastcoast media created fantasy. How can nigga
somewhere else tell you how to live, act, or talk?
Maine, thats the BLIND LEADING THE BLIND. (track on GETO BOYS last album.)


>: Niggaz Down South aint tryin to hear that FAST SHIT either. Relax,

>: relate, release....That's cuz the Black Church is still rooted here as

>You're going to relate the church to southern "playa" music? The same


>shit that talks about dealin', robbin' people, and "pimpin'"?
>
>THIS should be interesting...

I sure am. See most people dont overstand that a lot of playa music uses
the griot style to tell a story so that you overstand the MORAL of the
story.
If you knew bout the BIBLE, you would overstand that the Bible is full of
stories bout robbin, pimpin, etc.

Cain wuz the first murderer. Eve wuz the first scandalous bitch. The
Egyptians and many othaz pimped all types of people. I can go on.....just
goto church and ask the minister. You're in Georgia, go have a
conversation with the brotha from TEAM SOTERIA. He can probably give you
PLENTY of references.
Listen to the SCARFACE song, 'Faith'.

By you makin the above statement, you are generalizing too.
(like most eastcoastcentric people do when dealing with hip-hop thats a
different style.)
All Southern hip-hop aint bout dealin, robbin people, and pimpin.

The game is life playa, do you want to win?? (Be saved)


>: See this is whut eastcoastcentrics fail to realize...


>: WE BEEN DOIN THIS SHIT FO YEARZ TOO FOOL!!

>Not nearly as long as they've been doing it in New York...
>

This wuz a stupid statement. This same attitude is whut started east v.
west. Aint nobody tryin to say
we been doin this as long as New York, erebody knows where it started.
But Ten yearz IS a long time. Long enough to where a kid who is 21 now
wuz only 11 when our scene blow up. Meaning that there are kidz down
this way who grew listening to ONLY Southern hip-hop exclusively, just
like eastcoastcentric 'headz' listen to eastcoast-style hip-hop
exclusively. I have to bang this concept into many a niggaz head
daily.... I know PLENTY of people like this right here in Houston alone.
The Houston hip-hop scene is large enough to where it doesnt even have or
need external influences. Right now, i can probably name at least 20
artists who are household names here who you have probably NEVER heard of.
But if i listen to you, they aint hip-hop...


>: YOU are just makin up fo lost time on OUR style...WE already heard yo side


>: of the story...now listen to OURS. If you REALLY playa-made, you would
>: OVERSTAND that we been doin this shit on OUR own terms fo YEARZ too. (The
>: Geto Boys first album came out in 1987.)

>10 years!?!? Hip-hop's been up in NY since the seventies or even
>earlier...

But I doubt if YOU were there then.(the 70's) So this statement is
irrelevant. Depending on your age, you probably have been listenin to
hip-hop for ten years or under as well. So it dont matter how long its
been out, Which wuz MY point. Unlike most people on this ng, i'm not a
kid, I'm 27 years old. contrary to whut a person says bout the old
school, unless you were there you caint overstand the original intent or
content, i.e. the truth of the situation, the attitude and feelings of
the people who created it. I started listening to hip-hop around 1980. I
wuz 10 years old.
I remember when THE MESSAGE came out. I bought RAPPER's DELIGHT when it
wuz FIRST released. I WENT to the FRESHFEST. I went to the KING OF ROCK
tour, the RAISING HELL tour.
This is the point that eastcoastcentric people alwayz fail to realize:

People in otha places grew up with hip-hop as well, and developed their
own scenes in different locations out of whut they observed and
participated in.
Hip-hop has no set principles, it is the expressed culture of the youth
generation.
Culture differs depending on LOTS of thangs, including LOCALITY.

Thats why RAKIM ALLAH said, "It aint where ya from its where ya AT." I
bought this lp when it came out also. I wuz in the 11th grade.

See, alot of eastcoastcentric people dont overstand this concept. And it
trips me out cuz its an east-born saying. Over time, peoples attitudes,
intentions, and feelings can change or be MISINTERPRETED.
examples: Eldridge Cleaver (One of the original Black Panthers) is a born
again Christian now and recanted all of the stuff that he thoroughly
believed (KILL WHITE PEOPLE) and said back in the sixties. He wuz on 60
minutes and said that whut he said and stood for then wuz wrong for this
day and age, but at the time, he believed whut he said. But if you just
take Cleaver for his face value without overstanding this fact, you would
probably view him as a radical racist who wants to overthrow the
government.

Like Big Rube says, "No man can truly understand how a man from 2000 years
ago feels."
Which in relation to hip-hop is the same as you bringin up the 70's
argument. YOU WEREN'T THERE, YOU DIDN'T particpate then, so all you know
is whut someone tells you or whut you can interpret from your own
research. Your INTERPRETATION is whut keeps you from overstanding. Which
is exactly whut the dude who wrote the post i replied to is doing
concerning Southern hip-hop. His interpretation makes sweeping
generalizations, (just like you do) bout Southern hip-hop and hip-hop in
general.

I lived in BROOKLYN (688 Putnam Ave) in the late 80's for some time, one
of hip-hops highest points.
I wuz 19 yearz old. I WENT to clubs, parties, etc. all over New York.
At the same time, one of my potnas wrote a screenplay called WHEELS of
STEEL, the Scott La Rock story. He went to the Bronx and interviewed
KRS (I have a copy if you want to read it), I wuz a young-dumb hustla, i
wuz too busy kickin it. I wuz a part of hip-hop then, I actively
participated. just like the South is a part of hip-hop now.

>: Its just that the biased


>: eastcoastcentric media is just starting to pay attention becuz YOU HAVE TO
>: GIVE PROPS WHERE PROPZ IS DUE
>

>Who says they're due? Maybe the shit just sells because it's offensive.
>See Death Row Records....

This is anotha lame eastcoastcentric arguement. Whut makes you think shit
sells just cuz its offensive?
Maybe it sells becuz people like it, they can relate to it. Just cuz you
dont or caint, dont HATE it, be objective. Then if you still dont like
it, dont listen to it. Stop hatin'.

Tell me this then: Why dont eastcoast records sell then??
If ya'll keep it so real, you think people would support it. THAT's the
difference, playboy.
Folks down this way SUPPORT hip-hop with their MONEY.
That's why people like Master P can blow up, and most eastcoast artists
remain mired in obscurity. Most eastcoast people all think they are on
the inside lookin out, but in the scope of the big picture, they are on
the outside lookin in....

Plus, I SAY THAT THEY ARE DUE. (Propz) So do a gang of otha people down
this way. We gave YA'LL propz....be a MAN a do the same.

nobody is asking you to like our scene, just DONT DISRESPECT IT. Which
is the same thang that WEST SIDE CONNECTION said when they came out. Most
people on the east hate them, but what they said (No matter how
harsh)
was TRUE.

and the TRUTH shall set you FREE, fool!

That's why westcoast and southern artists click so well, you aint know?

life is all bout LOVE & HATE playa. Love is alwayz the first option fo a
TRU playa, but dont show us HATE then expect to get love or no
response. We aint wit that shit down this way potna.


>Now, besides the fact that you didn't provide a whole lot of support for
>your views, you used all that "playa" speak AND ACTUALLY TYPED IT.
>

I type like i talk fo just that reason. This is a new medium of
communication. There are NO FORMAL rules on the net. This is also a
recreational newsgroup, not a courtroom or classroom. To me its the
equivalent of havin a personal conversation not a formal one. and i want
people to overstand the CONTENT & the CONTEXT of where i'm comin' from.
Instead of complaining bout how i said somethang, you need to LISTEN &
COMPREHEND whut wuz said.

>That shit sounds forced.

It wuz. I call it EBONICSv2.0. Its a DIALECT. The point being only
specific types of people overstand whut I'm sayin, and that's good. That
WUZ my intention. When I post I am targeting specific audience, and the
people I want to overstand my messages DO get it. I get love from people
all over the world.

I do this on purpose to show that its the same thang as eastcoastcentric
people saying, "word iz bond, son, phat, slammin, cyph3r, lovely, kid,
etc. etc.

THAT shit sounds forced to me. And thats the same bullshit that makes
white boys think its cool to say nigga and act Black, just cuz they down
wit 'hip-hop'.
Cuz imma tell you playa, it aint all bout dis rap homeboy.....

Nigga, i'm not STUPID. I HAVE a degree in JOURNALISM.


>I know that's how people speak...that's how they speak here. But this is
>the damn internet, kid. If you want to convince me, you've got to come
>with some intelligence. I'm sure you're capable...
>
>
>Mitch
>--
>Mitch Kispert
>cco...@prism.gatech.edu
>
>Georgia "Well I'm beyond critical mass, feel the lyrical blast
>Institute of Vex the Vortex, man of the past
>Technology Livin' in the present, and walkin' in the future,
> H20's the flow as I dilute ya"
> --Boogiemonsters (Vex), "Strange"
>
>Seen as one of the "multilingual" greetings in the lobby of my Graduate
>Student dorm: "BREAK YOURSELF, FOOL!"

I'm tired and i have to get gone,
but imma leave you wit a lil some some to THINK BOUT bein the PLAYA-MADE
nigga that i am.....

Remember whut Jeru said on the intro to his first album?
Try APPLYING this to the UNIVERSE that is hip-hop.

if YOU are capable.....


**This document was created using EBONICSv2.0 by:

OverTIME, " 3rd COAST. Comin' Down.....DEEP...& Dirty foe dat SOUTH
Gleem'N & Lean'N from WORLD-WIDE TEXAS
That's PLEXUS 4
ya'll HATERZ!!"

RAI$E UP!! Productions
THE BLACK COLLEGE STAR NETWORK
P.O. BOX 2369
PRAIRIE VIEW, TEXAS 77446-2369
1.800.506.3977
24.7.365
AD-VANCED SCOUT ENTERTAINMENT GROUP(c) 1997

all rights reserved.

Loklass

unread,
Jul 11, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/11/97
to

In article <31F300...@tiac.com>, writes:

>Chino XL isn't east coast. Which makes me wonder...how many of the
>artists that you list have you actually HEARD (outside of radio)?

Chino XL was born and raised in NEW JERSEY. This makes me wonder if you've
even listened to his album. He shouts New Jersey all over the fuckin'
album. Yes, he now vacates in California and has done tracks with West
Coast artists like Ras Kass but his home is still in New Jersey. One of my
favorite parts on the album mentions Jersey. On "Feelin' Evil Again", he
breaks into this sing-songy mode:

"What part of Jersey do you come from, black?
The part that white people be speeding through in 6 seconds flat
They scared to death, they outta breath, they gonna get carjacked
That's what you get when you don't recognize Hispanics and blacks"

Get your facts straight before you try and set someone else straight...

Peace

Loklass
El Papichulo Cubano

Mike Burke

unread,
Jul 11, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/11/97
to

Miotch! <cco...@acmez.gatech.edu> wrote in article
<5q4eao$l...@catapult.gatech.edu>...

> You're listening to the wrong stuff. Wu is on some pop shit. So is Mobb
> Deep. I think it's good that you listed the Roots because it's a good
> starting point. Try Boogiemonsters, Latyrx, De La Soul, etc. They
> actually have something to say... ^^^^^^^
>

Latyrx is West Coast.

> Chino XL isn't east coast. Which makes me wonder...how many of the
> artists that you list have you actually HEARD (outside of radio)?
>

Uh, yeah he is. Chino XL is from New Jersey.

--

"Even when I say nothing it's a
beautiful use of negative space."
El-P

Mike Burke

Miotch!

unread,
Jul 12, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/12/97
to

Mike Burke (Hom...@pacbell.net) wrote:
: Miotch! <cco...@acmez.gatech.edu> wrote in article

: <5q4eao$l...@catapult.gatech.edu>...
: > You're listening to the wrong stuff. Wu is on some pop shit. So is Mobb
: > Deep. I think it's good that you listed the Roots because it's a good
: > starting point. Try Boogiemonsters, Latyrx, De La Soul, etc. They
: > actually have something to say... ^^^^^^^
: >

: Latyrx is West Coast.

I didn't say they weren't. I merely listed them as an example of a good
group with a lot to say that WEREN'T from the South.

: > Chino XL isn't east coast. Which makes me wonder...how many of the


: > artists that you list have you actually HEARD (outside of radio)?

: Uh, yeah he is. Chino XL is from New Jersey.

Okay...but he resides in California. Whatever. Sorry.

Miotch!

unread,
Jul 12, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/12/97
to

rai...@swbell.net wrote:

: >Which makes it like booty-music...there isn't anything wrong with that,


: >but it sure isn't creative or innovative...

: First of all, you act like booty music and Southern hip-hop are the
: same.

Did I? I didn't say anything like that. I merely said that the
bass-intensive type tracks that you mentioned are usually boring and
unimaginative...you've only got so much of the aural spectrum to work
with.

: Plus, whut makes you thank that even booty music isn't creative?

Ummm...I'll leave that as an excercise for the reader.

: I OWN all of the above named records. I work in a radio station. De La


: Soul is okay, so are the Boogiemonsters. You missed my ENTIRE point. I
: responded to this post cuz the dude wuz rankin on the South and makin
: sweeping generalizations, so I did the same to show him it how it could
: work both ways.

Agreed. But I didn't see that point anywhere in your post.

: You are crazy. Mr.Mike, Thorough, Crime Boss, Eightball & MJG all can


: flow AND have lyrical skills.
: Its all in the beholder though. I'll say it again, whut THESE artists
: say is relevant to MY life.

Agreed...it's in the eye of the beholder. And I have no problem with
that. I, personally, think the lyrics are unimaginative and repetitive.

: Why dont you tell me whut YOUR definition is so I can overstand where you
: comin from....

My definition of what? (And quit with that "overstand" shit. It's mad
confusing.)

: >: The media has most people brainwashed into believing stereotypes of all
: types.

: >So we should just accept this, and not try to change it?

: You aint listenin again. My whole point in sayin this wuz to address this
: VERY point, to NOT accept it.

No, you said something to the effect of "The media has most people
brainwashed into believing stereotypes of all types, so it doesn't matter
how southern artists portray the black race anyways..."

: Your boy made a sweepin generalization and stereotyped the South becuz
: he believes the stereotypes.

Who's "my boy"? I'm not personally acquainted with anyone on this
newsgroup. Just because I might partially agree with someone doesn't mean
we hang together...

: >You're pretty much referring to all that bullshit pop that you hear on
: >MTV.

: No i'm not.

Then why did you make repeated references to the Wu, Mobb Deep, Busta
Rhymes, Rampage, Redman, etc? That's about all you listed as examples.
These are all artists who get a shitload of airplay.

: I wuz talkin bout ALL of em. I made anotha generalization to


: show how the shit can work both ways again. Its all good for an
: eastcoastcentric to do this, but hoe-types getz they panies in a wade
: when the shit bounces back at em.

Huh? Can you please turn that confuso-speak shit off?

: And it dont matter if its on MTV or


: not, they are STILL eastcoast artists, and THAT wuz my point.


: >: A bunch of corny niggaz who wear funny colored baggy clothes and hip-hop


: >: dreadz, funny lookin hockey jerseys, and sports gloves...
: >: all that camoflague and bullshit. You niggaz need to get a fade and a
: >: job, holla at some women....DO SOMETHANG. But i forgot ya'll are too busy
: >: KEEPIN IT REAL.

: >So now you're going to attack what they *wear*? I don't see how this is
: >relevant.

: This is relevant becuz it is a direct respond to the attack made on
: Southern hip-hop.
: Ol boy wuz dissin playaz, etc. He dissed our manner of communicating. Why
: is THAT relevant? and he dissed OUR appearance as well, I just volleyed it
: back to make him overstand that once again it works both wayz.

That still doesn't make it relevant. Just because he starts dissing on
the general appearance of southern rappers doesn't automatically give it
relevance. You should've pointed this out to him.

I mean, look at what you wrote: "A bunch of corny niggaz wearing funny
colored baggy clothes and hockey jerseys, etc." That's about as wide a
generalization as I've heard in this discussion. You're again referring
to the MTV-types.

I don't see De La, the Roots, BM's, Latyrx, or any of the crews I really
respect wearing any of this shit.

BUT STILL, it isn't relevant. And you shouldn't give it relevance just
because somebody else brought it up. Dismiss it, and move on.

: >So you think the "playaz" down south sound more "real" than others? When


: >they're rapping about shit that they actually *did* (at most) half of?


: Yes I do. They sound more real becuz they ARE. I can see through a
: bullshit muthafucka like they made of GLASS potna. Plus, I have talked
: to and interviewed plenty of Southern artists.

How many East Coast/West Coast artists have you interviewed? Is this
another example of you continuing your narrow view of hip-hop by excluding
them?

: And whut makes you think


: they only did half of whut they rap bout??

The fact that most of them would be in jail instead of rapping if they did
all of the shit they talk about.

: If thats the case i could say the exact same thang bout eastcoast artists
: as well.

Agreed. The Wu, Mobb Deep, shit like that...they're (as you put it)
"studio niggaz" as well. But so are a lot of southern artists.

: I caint convince you, its probably somethin you would have to SEE. Come


: down here goto a coupla clubs etc. You'll see its all REAL. which can
: be both good and bad (subjective terms), but at least its TRUE.
: Stop living in an eastcoast media created fantasy. How can nigga
: somewhere else tell you how to live, act, or talk?

I don't live in the "east" as it's defined here...born in south Florida,
raised in Orlando, and now living in Atlanta. Truth be told, I don't see
a whole lot of that here. But shit might be different in Texas.

: Maine, thats the BLIND LEADING THE BLIND. (track on GETO BOYS last album.)
^^^^^

How the hell did Maine come into this? I don't know a whole lot of east
coast artists from there. Just playin'...and dissing on your inability to
stop confusing me and USE SOME STANDARD ENGLISH.

: >You're going to relate the church to southern "playa" music? The same


: >shit that talks about dealin', robbin' people, and "pimpin'"?
: >
: >THIS should be interesting...

: I sure am. See most people dont overstand that a lot of playa music uses
: the griot style to tell a story so that you overstand the MORAL of the
: story.
: If you knew bout the BIBLE, you would overstand that the Bible is full of
: stories bout robbin, pimpin, etc.

I know more about organized Christianity than I really care to sometimes.
The Bible doesn't CONDONE this type of shit...what are you smoking?

: Cain wuz the first murderer.

This was a BAD thing...not something supported by any Church I know.

: Eve wuz the first scandalous bitch.

See above.

: I can go on.....just


: goto church and ask the minister.

Shit...so you're asking me to go into a church and ask a minister how the
Bible relates to degrading southern hip-hop?

So I'll just walk into my local southern Baptist church here bumping
Master P...I'm sure it's in the hymnbooks, right? I'm sure they'll say,
"Now there's a positive young brother with something to say!", right?

Wrong. You get a polite "turn that stuff off" and a lecture about how it
rots your mind.

: Listen to the SCARFACE song, 'Faith'.

I know there are some positive songs, and even some positive groups. But
the ones you mentioned aren't among those. Master P, Tru, Mr.Mike,
Thorough, Crime Boss, Eightball & MJG...are any of those groups straight
positive? No. When I think of positivity, I think of Goodie Mob, some
Outkast...stuff like that, as well as maybe a few songs from the groups
mentioned above.

: >: Its just that the biased


: >: eastcoastcentric media is just starting to pay attention becuz YOU HAVE TO
: >: GIVE PROPS WHERE PROPZ IS DUE
: >
: >Who says they're due? Maybe the shit just sells because it's offensive.
: >See Death Row Records....

: This is anotha lame eastcoastcentric arguement. Whut makes you think shit
: sells just cuz its offensive?

Because it's selling to an majority of white middle-class teenage males.
They're the ones who make most hip-hop in general monetarily successful.

You think THEY "relate to it"? I don't. They might like it, but mostly
because it's something taboo in the world they live in. It's a way of
rebellion from their parents and all of the middle-class white
surroundings.

: Maybe it sells becuz people like it, they can relate to it. Just cuz you


: dont or caint, dont HATE it, be objective. Then if you still dont like
: it, dont listen to it. Stop hatin'.

I'm only "hatin'" as you put it because I don't like the music you're
defending. You're "hatin'" as well because you don't like some of the
artists on MTV. Same shit. You want to make it seem like a personal
attack on southern music or "playa" type shit in general. It's not.

: Tell me this then: Why dont eastcoast records sell then??

Ummmm...checked billboard lately? East Coast sure sells a lot more than
the south. Like I said, middle-class white kids with money who want to
hear something offensive.

: If ya'll keep it so real, you think people would support it. THAT's the


: difference, playboy.
: Folks down this way SUPPORT hip-hop with their MONEY.

Yes, and they're the same white kids who buy all the rest of the mass-sold
hip-hop music. Same thing as the East.

: Plus, I SAY THAT THEY ARE DUE. (Propz) So do a gang of otha people down


: this way. We gave YA'LL propz....be a MAN a do the same.

I give props to an artist because I like the work they do, not because
somebody tells me I "owe" it to them...

: That's why westcoast and southern artists click so well, you aint know?

Either that or the fact that the majority of the "playa" artists hail from
those coasts...

: life is all bout LOVE & HATE playa. Love is alwayz the first option fo a


: TRU playa, but dont show us HATE then expect to get love or no
: response. We aint wit that shit down this way potna.

I ain't a playa. If I was a playa, I wouldn't be a "TRU" playa. That
shit is wack.

I don't expect someone to like me if I don't like them...but this isn't
personal. It's about music and types of music.

Some of the people on the east might hate the South, but some in the south
might love the east. There's not necessarily any balance.

It's not reciprocal.

: >Now, besides the fact that you didn't provide a whole lot of support for


: >your views, you used all that "playa" speak AND ACTUALLY TYPED IT.
: >

: I type like i talk fo just that reason. This is a new medium of
: communication. There are NO FORMAL rules on the net.

True, but I'd like to be able to understand (NOT "OVERSTAND") what the
hell you're saying if you want to engage in an intelligent discussion with
me.

: i want


: people to overstand the CONTENT & the CONTEXT of where i'm comin' from.

Then speak in english...

: Instead of complaining bout how i said somethang, you need to LISTEN &
: COMPREHEND whut wuz said.

I can't comprehend very well when I have to translate every third word.
It's hard to read that shit...

: >That shit sounds forced.

: It wuz. I call it EBONICSv2.0.

You do realize that this "ebonics" shit is just an excuse for the
government to dumb down classes because they don't think black youth are
intelligent enough to learn normal english.

Or _do_ you?

: I do this on purpose to show that its the same thang as eastcoastcentric


: people saying, "word iz bond, son, phat, slammin, cyph3r, lovely, kid,
: etc. etc.

It's not. I use those words when appropriate, but you don't have to wade
through LINES AND LINES of intentionally misspelled regular english to
understand my posts. It's ridiculous.

: Nigga, i'm not STUPID. I HAVE a degree in JOURNALISM.

I didn't say you were stupid. SEE WHAT I WROTE BELOW. I made a point of
saying you were capable of displaying intelligence.

: >I know that's how people speak...that's how they speak here. But this is

Miotch!

unread,
Jul 12, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/12/97
to

Loklass (lok...@aol.com) wrote:

: >Chino XL isn't east coast. Which makes me wonder...how many of the


: >artists that you list have you actually HEARD (outside of radio)?

: Chino XL was born and raised in NEW JERSEY. This makes me wonder if you've


: even listened to his album. He shouts New Jersey all over the fuckin'
: album.

Okay...okay...I've been corrected. I don't own Chino's album, but I have
heard it in its entirety. I was relying on the fact that he resides in
California and has done work with artists from there. Sorry.

: Yes, he now vacates in California

You mean "resides"? I didn't think he had left California yet...

: Get your facts straight before you try and set someone else straight...

Shit...I'm sorry. I made a simple mistake (although not really a full
mistake considering he's kinda "both" coasts). I think you ignored the
important parts of my posts, though...

Loklass...I've got mad respect for you since I first started reading here
(almost 2 years ago). If you took offense to the things I said about
southern hip-hop, realize that I'm merely making generalizations about a
few crews (mostly No Limit) and that my real problem is with people like
"RaiseUp" who give those heads a bad name.

He tries *hard* to make himself look incapable of rational discussion when
I'm sure he's not...

That's it.

Thanxsa292

unread,
Jul 14, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/14/97
to

In article <01bc8e39$eea98b60$5e1caace@default>, "Mike Burke"
<Hom...@pacbell.net> writes:

>.


>> You're listening to the wrong stuff. Wu is on some pop shit. So is
Mobb
>> Deep.

Pop?

Suave

unread,
Jul 18, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/18/97
to

In article <raiseup-1007...@ppp-207-193-11-52.hstntx.swbell.net>,
rai...@swbell.net wrote:

:Just look at the names of the niggaz from WU. Somebody might beat yo azz


:you tell em yo name wuz Ol Dirty Bastard down this way....

B-legit, E-40, D-shot, H.W.A., Brotha Lynch Hung, Mo B. Dick, Mercedes,
The Gambino Family, MC Serv-On... do I have to go on? these names are so
damn played it's rediculous. In general, any names that take classic
novels, stupid made up mob family names, expensive foreign car companies,
and especially if they use a letter in the name, are all bullshit. They
sound so damn stupid and are a big reason people up here don't check for
the south. How many album covers can they make of some guy smoking crack,
some dirty half naked hooker with her hand on her ass, some typical media
portraid playa with a cigar, a cup of bubbly, and money floating around?
They are so unoriginal and predictable that it gets monotonous when E-40
puts out his cousin, his brother, and his best friend out to talk the same
shit over and over again.

: You probably wouldn't believe it if you listen to Kari (no dis


:intended) but hardly any eastcoast music gets played where I'm
:at.(Houston TEXAS)

I believe it: I have never heard a master P song played on the radio, sold
in a store, or even bumped in a ride up here. I'm telling you, people may
know the names and faces of the south, but we don't check for them, at
all.


:If you a man and you mean whut you say, SPEAK CLEARLY.

is there a universal language of hip hop? yes, in most cases when a
rapper drops a verse, it can be heard around the U.S. and Canada but some
mc's confuse the hell out of me: you think east coast mc's don't speak
clear enough? What the hell is E-40 talking about? I can't catch
sentence he recites because he makes up his own slang and starts to
confuse muthafuckas with his mumble and jumble style. I'll give you that
the east has some unclear people but don't look this far to get confusing,
you got plenty of that back home.

: Whut's wrong wit BLACK stereotypes anyway?? Especially if its bout


:being YOUNG, BLACK, ALIVE, AND LEGALLY RICH.

who needs to hear that shit? do you think messages of selling crack until
you have enough money to buy your own home and mercedes jeep is a good
portrayal? Where's the positive messages? What about the raps about
bitches, playin' bitches, and that bitches only want money? Where are the
positive reiforcements in a young black man's life? There's more to life
than being a player, selling crack and being rich. These aren't good
models and they only contirbute to the negative portrayal of rap and its
artists by the white media. That's what's wrong with the stereotypes of
blacks that these mc's from the south are talking about.

:Then there's the CORN-BALL factor. All those niggaz in the eastcoast


:'hip-hop inner circle' who get big propz from all the magazines, video
:shows etc. cuz they labels dump big money into puttin them on. Then they
:put out half-azz shit.

I agree with that but Redman is an ill mc, he's definitely above a lot of
heads out there and he's got skills beyond belief.

: Whut eva happened to EARNING YOUR RESPECT??


:Nas went from Half-time to being Pablo Escobar.
:Most artists Down South have PAID DUES for years by the time they get ANY
:national attention.
:A bunch of corny niggaz who wear funny colored baggy clothes and hip-hop
:dreadz, funny lookin hockey jerseys, and sports gloves...
:all that camoflague and bullshit. You niggaz need to get a fade and a
:job, holla at some women....DO SOMETHANG. But i forgot ya'll are too busy
:KEEPIN IT REAL.

hip hop artists with skill get put out up here, they don't force their way
into people's ears by selling enough drugs to get a record company. And
what is keepin' it real? Just because NYC cats haven't killed before,
haven't sold tons of drugs, and haven't pimped 100 hoes, they don't
deserve to be on the mic? Hip hop is more than this, much more than
this. Like Kari said, hip hop culture is pretty much black culture and
black culture is not even close to being just about busting guns and
busting nuts. Are the people who don't keep it real, fake? I know a lot
of people who don't seem to fit your criteria and I think the hip hop
community would disappear if the only people allowed were the Master P's
and the Eightballs.

:This is my personal KICKER: The REALITY FACTOR.


:
:When I listen to an MC i listen fo the CONVICTION in his/her voice. That's
:whut makes them good to the PLAYAZ down Southside...how SERIOUS they are
:bout whut they say.
:erebody thinks that PLAYA shit is a corny stereotype...nigga there are
:some BOSS PLAYAZ networkin all over the SOUTH 4 REAL.
:Niggaz Down South aint tryin to hear none of that shit bout this system
:here in Babylon. GANGSTERISM is deeply rooted Down this way potna, cuz fo
:the most part there aint no middle class. You either BROKE or paid. There
:are plenty of niggaz Down South strugglin in the GETO. who view the GAME
:as a WAR...If you been BROKE or LOCKED you'd Overstand.

but don't limit hip hop just to that. there are so many other aspects...

seriously, though, the south definitely defines itself and I respect it
for that. i have respect for all the mcs and producers who are doing
their thing down there in the south, I just don't like their messages,
their flows, their ideas, or their music in general. I USED to like them
back in the day but I have to elevate my mind past all the negativity that
comes from the southern artists' music. I already have enough bullshit in
my life as it is, so why do I have to hear about someone else's drama
24-7? Music is, in part, a release of stress for me and I can't calm down
and feel the music of the south when all they talk about is how shitty
life is at the bottom of the economic ladder (close to where I am) and how
fucking enjoyable it is at the top of the ladder (where they are). The
south just needs to lighten up in general...

peace,

Mike Burke

unread,
Jul 18, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/18/97
to

Thanxsa292 <thanx...@aol.com> wrote in article
<19970714050...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...

Actually, I didn't write that. Miotch! did. You got the headers mixed up
when you responded, so it looks like I said it, even though I only
responded to Miotch!'s post to correct him.

KSG

unread,
Jul 19, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/19/97
to

Suave wrote:
>
> In article <raiseup-1007...@ppp-207-193-11-52.hstntx.swbell.net>,
> rai...@swbell.net wrote:
>
> :Just look at the names of the niggaz from WU. Somebody might beat yo azz
> :you tell em yo name wuz Ol Dirty Bastard down this way....
>
> B-legit, E-40, D-shot, H.W.A., Brotha Lynch Hung, Mo B. Dick, Mercedes,
> The Gambino Family, MC Serv-On... do I have to go on? these names are so
> damn played it's rediculous. In general, any names that take classic
> novels, stupid made up mob family names, expensive foreign car companies,
> and especially if they use a letter in the name, are all bullshit.
> sound so damn stupid and are a big reason people up here don't check for
> the south.

Where are you from, Alaska? B-Legit, E-40, D-Shot, BLH are all from the
Bay (well BLH is from Sac I believe) so you must be from way up North
for that to be southern. I think the main reason people from NY don't
check from the South (and West) is cause they are close minded. No
personal attack, but the impression I get from alot of people I meet
from the east (I lived there for a while) and the mix tapes I hear from
there is this holier than thou, we created rap, our stuff is the pure
good stuff.

They wanna say that the stuff out the west is gangstaish, when they
droppin the same stuff. The seem to think that there is some a priori
claim to minimalist beats being better than funk derived beats. I don't
know if the East is scared or if they actually think that their joints
are just better, but you have to concede that there is some shady
business going on out there.

> How many album covers can they make of some guy smoking crack,
> some dirty half naked hooker with her hand on her ass, some typical media
> portraid playa with a cigar, a cup of bubbly, and money floating around?

What about the NY ruffneck with all boyz dressed in winter clothing?

> They are so unoriginal and predictable that it gets monotonous when E-40
> puts out his cousin, his brother, and his best friend out to talk the same
> shit over and over again.

I assume applies to Wu Tang, BCC, Flip Mode, and all the crews out east
who aren't exactly showing the diversity of Plato in their writings.

>
> : You probably wouldn't believe it if you listen to Kari (no dis
> :intended) but hardly any eastcoast music gets played where I'm
> :at.(Houston TEXAS)
>
> I believe it: I have never heard a master P song played on the radio, sold
> in a store, or even bumped in a ride up here. I'm telling you, people may
> know the names and faces of the south, but we don't check for them, at
> all.

I personally don't listen to Master P, but I think my reason is
different than most from NY (not saying you necessarily). If you got a
tape in NY and you just say its from the South they don't wanna hear
it. When I was out East I had the Rass Kass bootleg, no one was
checking for it. Even when I said, let me put some of my coast in, they
let me, but then started clowning him. East Coast headz have a hard
time critically evaluating work from other regions (not all, but enuf so
that you are apprehensive about introducing fresh new west stuff out
there).

> is there a universal language of hip hop? yes, in most cases when a
> rapper drops a verse, it can be heard around the U.S. and Canada but some
> mc's confuse the hell out of me: you think east coast mc's don't speak
> clear enough? What the hell is E-40 talking about?

What the f*ck is ODB saying? You can only slur so many words.

> I can't catch
> sentence he recites because he makes up his own slang

Well there goes the regional differences. If you was from the west you
would understand these things. I don't know anyone out here who has a
problem understanding him.

> : Whut's wrong wit BLACK stereotypes anyway?? Especially if its bout
> :being YOUNG, BLACK, ALIVE, AND LEGALLY RICH.
>
> who needs to hear that shit? do you think messages of selling crack until
> you have enough money to buy your own home and mercedes jeep is a good
> portrayal? Where's the positive messages? What about the raps about
> bitches, playin' bitches, and that bitches only want money? Where are the
> positive reiforcements in a young black man's life? There's more to life
> than being a player, selling crack and being rich.

That's real funny comin from someone in the East. As far as I can tell
the east certainly has its share of playa-materialistic-dope heads on
the mic. In some sense ya'll started it (from Kool G to Jay Z to
Redman).

> hip hop artists with skill get put out up here, they don't force their way
> into people's ears by selling enough drugs to get a record company. And
> what is keepin' it real? Just because NYC cats haven't killed before,
> haven't sold tons of drugs, and haven't pimped 100 hoes, they don't
> deserve to be on the mic?

Since when were NY MCs Mother Theresa?

> seriously, though, the south definitely defines itself and I respect it
> for that. i have respect for all the mcs and producers who are doing
> their thing down there in the south, I just don't like their messages,
> their flows, their ideas, or their music in general. I USED to like them
> back in the day but I have to elevate my mind past all the negativity that
> comes from the southern artists' music. I already have enough bullshit in
> my life as it is, so why do I have to hear about someone else's drama
> 24-7? Music is, in part, a release of stress for me and I can't calm down
> and feel the music of the south when all they talk about is how shitty
> life is at the bottom of the economic ladder (close to where I am) and how
> fucking enjoyable it is at the top of the ladder (where they are). The
> south just needs to lighten up in general...

First I think before you dis the south, you should make sure you are
talking about southern rappers and not West Coast rappers (E-40
etc...). Second, the South is rather new in this game and to be honest
if you want to look at the two best albums in the past two years I think
they both come from the south (Goodie Mob and OutKast). I get the
impression you have never listened to a whole E-40 album cause you don't
really seem to know the content of his lyrics (or maybe you can't
understand them all). I'm not a big fan of E-40 (mostly cause I can't
get with the music), but I think lyrically he is nice. And he actually
put together an original flow that is also likable.

I can easily take some Wu song like Wildflower or something and make
them out to be the worst of portrayer of black images. That's not a
hard task to do for virtually any rap group. Except for a handful of
rap groups, mainstream rap thrives off of negative images of black
america (maybe that's all young white america feels comfortable buying).

But to end this we got dope albums from all regions and wack stuff from
all regions. If you don't like Master P don't sleep on all the South
cause you'll miss OutKast. If you don't Wu don't sleep on all the East
cause you'll miss Company Flow. And if you don't like E-40 don't sleep
on all the West cause you'll miss Acey.

Now lets get over this regionalism, cause while we are complaining about
other coasts getting wack we are supporting mediocrity on our own
coasts.

--
KSG
Bring the Noise on KSDT UCSD
KSDT: http://scw.ucsd.edu/ksdt/index.html
Personal: http://www-cse.ucsd.edu/users/kgatlin/

"In Hip Hop's atomic structure, I am the nucleus"
KRS-1

"It's a great day for genocide. That's the day all the niggas died"
Ice Cube

Thanxsa292

unread,
Jul 19, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/19/97
to

In article <01bc93b3$aae38dc0$5a04aace@default>, "Mike Burke"
<Hom...@pacbell.net> writes:

>
>> >.
>> >> You're listening to the wrong stuff. Wu is on some pop shit. So is
>> Mobb
>> >> Deep.
>>
>> Pop?
>>
>
> Actually, I didn't write that. Miotch! did. You got the headers
mixed up
>when you responded, so it looks like I said it, even though I only
>responded to Miotch!'s post to correct him.
>
>

My Bad.

the Wise1

Ya mama

unread,
Jul 19, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/19/97
to

Word the fuck up! I think everybody should read that post.

Peace

Trey Harris

unread,
Jul 20, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/20/97
to


Ultimate respect to KSG for his post. You said everything that I
felt and you said it 100 times better than I could have.

One thing that I've noticed about New York...they've created their
own "universe" within hip-hop that is nearly airtight. They'll accept New
Jerz, Philly and a few others, but their "style" doesn't seem to be the
dominant factor in other hip-hop centers. I mean, every city has the NY
wanna-bes (camo, 1-leg up, "Dun", "Sun", "God", etc.) but in the places
I've been, brothers don't really live or act like that.

And all regions are talking about the same stuff. Making moves,
coming up, clocking loot, pimping females, pushing whips, flexing rides,
making scrilla, being 'bout it, running game, etc. It's all the same
thing. Jay-Z's got a Lexus, Big Boi rolls a Caddy and Snoop's got the
Impala. GZA is a "God", Ice Cube is a "G" and 8-Ball is a "Player". This
shit is more similar than anyone wants to admit.

My man, Curt, said something that I'll never forget. He
questioned the sense of the Bad Boy/ Death Row War when they were nothing
but East & West Coast versions of each other. BIG & Tupac, Dogg Pound &
Jr. MAFIA, Suge & Puff. Same thing, different state.

Peace,

*** MARBLES ***

T. Tauri

unread,
Jul 20, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/20/97
to

known universe wrote:

> I never understood why a lot of the bass was taken out of hip-hop
> music. Some people say that hip-hop has progressed past the 808 boom,
> but I really don't know if it's progression. Today it seems like
> artists either have an album with very little bumping songs, or all
> bumping songs. Now I think that's why I liked EPMD so much. You
> could count on them to have lyrics that made you flip, but even more
> importantly you could count on them to make beats (So What Cha Sayin',
> Rap Is Outta Control) that would shake your whole block on the right
> system. Nowadays, a lot of the beats out of New York are tight from a
> production standpoint, but they lack a lot of bass. Sometimes I'll
> throw on Run-DMC's "Raising Hell" just to remind myself how much I
> miss bass.

Yessss! I clearly remember the first time I hear that sub-bass KABOOM in
"I Know You Got Soul." So nice.

Peece,
T. Tauri

known universe

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Jul 21, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/21/97
to

rai...@swbell.net wrote:

>Also, most music from Down South is made fo the SLAB, meaning to play in
>the RIDE own a tight system. You caint even HEAR half the beats in a song
>if you listen to it on a walkman, cuz the music is MADE for hard-hittin
>systems. Most people out east dont feel this cuz they dont ride in carz
>they use mainly use mass transit

I never understood why a lot of the bass was taken out of hip-hop


music. Some people say that hip-hop has progressed past the 808 boom,
but I really don't know if it's progression. Today it seems like
artists either have an album with very little bumping songs, or all
bumping songs. Now I think that's why I liked EPMD so much. You
could count on them to have lyrics that made you flip, but even more
importantly you could count on them to make beats (So What Cha Sayin',
Rap Is Outta Control) that would shake your whole block on the right
system. Nowadays, a lot of the beats out of New York are tight from a
production standpoint, but they lack a lot of bass. Sometimes I'll
throw on Run-DMC's "Raising Hell" just to remind myself how much I
miss bass.


known universe
*****
i've heard the tyson-holyfield rematch is this weekend.
apparently it's on pay-per-chew.
*****

Spirit68

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Jul 21, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/21/97
to

>ANYWAY, I need to work on making sure the things I say don't ramble, but
>my point is that when I hear Master P and Tru, who I don't like, I can't
>just say man, they have no skills.

Yes, you can. I'm from New Orleans and I work hard at making my lyrics
better everyday. Point blank, Mast P is NOT working towards perfecting his
craft as a lyricist. His flow IS getting better from record to record, but
he is not pushing any boundaries. As a "reality rapper", MCs such as
Scarface and Prodigy remain miles ahead of him, because they constantly
find new ways of saying what has been said before ("I shot so-and-so").

Mia X is a better rapper than P, so is Mystikal. Why? They practice their
craft more. IMO, P should stick to the boardrooms and leave mics to people
who are willing to dedicate themselves to their craft fully.

Peace,

Spirit

Spirit68

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Jul 21, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/21/97
to

>B-legit, E-40, D-shot, H.W.A., Brotha Lynch Hung, Mo B. Dick, Mercedes,
>The Gambino Family, MC Serv-On... do I have to go on? these names are so
>damn played it's rediculous. In general, any names that take classic
>novels, stupid made up mob family names, expensive foreign car companies,
>and especially if they use a letter in the name, are all bullshit.

Niko, you just played yourself and I'll list point by point every reason
why.

1) None of the names you listed are "Mob family names".
2) Only one of the names you listed was from a foreign car company,
showing that this is actually the exception rather than the rule.
3) Only one of the names comes from a classic novel, again showing that
this is the exception rather than the rule. (And isn't being the exception
to the rule part of being innovative. Thank you for disproving your own
point)
4) You say using a letter in an MC name is stupid. I guess you hate Kool G
Rap, Chuck D, A-Plus (of Souls), Eric B, shall I go on?

> They
>sound so damn stupid and are a big reason people up here don't check for
>the south.

Oh, so people around your way only buy records if the artist has a really
cool name? People around your way must be superficial idiots.

>How many album covers can they make of some guy smoking crack,
>some dirty half naked hooker with her hand on her ass, some typical media
>portraid playa with a cigar, a cup of bubbly, and money floating around?

Hmmm. I guess you really hated the "Paid In Full" cover with the dollar
bills all in the background and Rakim and Eric B with the fat rope chains.
Or, better yet, KRS holding gats on the first two BDP albums. I'm sure
those covers were indicative of the low musical quality of the records
underneath, right (sarcasm)? Why the hell are you judging albums by their
covers?

>They are so unoriginal and predictable that it gets monotonous when E-40
>puts out his cousin, his brother, and his best friend out to talk the
same
>shit over and over again.

Can you say "Wu-Tang"? Case closed.

>hip hop artists with skill get put out up here, they don't force their
way
>into people's ears by selling enough drugs to get a record company.

Actually, most rappers in New York get put on by somebody. Name the last
East Coast rapper who came out on a major label who was completely
unaffialiated with any previously released crews. You can count those acts
on one hand...

Anyway, you made a lot of good points, but you also had some serious flaws
in your argument, which I enumerated above.

Peace,

Spirit

Spirit68

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Jul 21, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/21/97
to

>You're listening to the wrong stuff. Wu is on some pop shit. So is Mobb
>: > Deep. I think it's good that you listed the Roots because it's a
good
>: > starting point. Try Boogiemonsters, Latyrx, De La Soul, etc. They
>: > actually have something to say... ^^^^^^^
>: >
>
>: Latyrx is West Coast.
>
>I didn't say they weren't. I merely listed them as an example of a good
>group with a lot to say that WEREN'T from the South.
>
>

Actually, Mitch, since Overtime (now called "Raise Up") was refeering to
East Coast groups, by listing Latyryx in your rebuttal of groups that
avoid East Coast stereotypes, you IMPLIED that Latyryx were an East Coast
group, which they most definitely are not.

Peace,

Spirit

Jonathan Dean Ripp

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Jul 21, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/21/97
to

Why does everyone want New York's respect? Cuz frankly, no one is ever
going to get it unless your from the tri-state. Something in 1990 or '91
made this true.

Frankly, I just don't see any diversity in the south. I know I'm wrong
but for some reason, I don't care. All the mainstream acts I see in
magazines (Since they don't play shit on the radio here from the South I
can only go one what mags say) are big ballers and killers. I know there
is more to the south than that but how am I, a kid in the east locked in
the east coast mentality with east coast radio stations, going to hear
cats from the south that I'd probably like?

Ripp

Steve 'Flash' Juon

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Jul 21, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/21/97
to

Jonathan Dean Ripp wrote:
> more to the south than that but how am I, a kid in the east locked in
> the east coast mentality with east coast radio stations, going to hear
> cats from the south that I'd probably like?
>
> Ripp

By listening first and making assumptions later. By checking out
artists like OutKast, Goodie Mob, Y'all So Stupid, Bushwick Bill,
Mystikal, Mia X, and LISTENING first. Listen to the lyrics. Check
out the beats. Tell me if the artists I just named can't combine
both as well as any East coast MC you can name.

Peace, Flash

--
Steve 'Flash' Juon --> dj.flash or hip...@pobox.com
Artifacts Homepage --> http://pobox.com/~hip-hop/music/artifacts.html
Hip-Hop Lyrics Archive --> http://www.public.iastate.edu/~hip-hop/
HEADz UP! magazine --> http://pobox.com/~hip-hop/HEADzUP/
Author: RFD and CFV --> rec.music.hip-hop newsgroup

Pushermat1

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Jul 21, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/21/97
to

Ripp asked:

>>how am I, a kid in the east locked in the east coast mentality with
>>east coast radio stations, going to hear cats from the south that I'd
>>probably like?

On the real, they probably won't listen to you, but call these fools and
make some requests. Call Hot 97 when they have the outta town show or
whatever it is and request some SUAVE HOUSE shit. Tell 'em you want to
hear Eightball & MJG. Tell 'em man. I mean, they won't listen, but at
least you'll be putting a bug in their ear. Tell Stratch and Bob too. They
need to know.

Thing is, I'm assuming, from your last post, that your tates tend to lean
more towards the style from the east, well we got mic wreckas down here
too. Check the K-OTIX, they just put out a single themselves and the shit
is bangin'. Honestly, I prefer the southern sound these days, but when
somebody comes out, putting it down for Texas in an original, well
produced manner, I'm 'nbout it. The K-Otix have been wrecking the local
scene for quite a while now, I love those cats. Email me and I'll tell you
how to get a hold of the 12".

PEACE
pusherman matt stonedalla

Anthony Sebro

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Jul 21, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/21/97
to


On Mon, 21 Jul 1997, Steve 'Flash' Juon wrote:
>
> By listening first and making assumptions later. By checking out
> artists like OutKast, Goodie Mob, Y'all So Stupid, Bushwick Bill,
> Mystikal, Mia X, and LISTENING first. Listen to the lyrics. Check
> out the beats. Tell me if the artists I just named can't combine
> both as well as any East coast MC you can name.
>
> Peace, Flash

Yeah.. I remember that I picked up Y'all So Stupid, and I kinda
liked it (although I felt that they were riding on Pharcyde's
coattails a bit too much). Then, I had my walkman stolen with
the tape still inside. I was quite salty about the whole
affair....

Tony "Keynote" Sebro


Suave

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Jul 21, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/21/97
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In article <33CFFA...@cs.ucsd.edu>, kga...@cs.ucsd.edu wrote:

:Where are you from, Alaska? B-Legit, E-40, D-Shot, BLH are all from the


:Bay (well BLH is from Sac I believe) so you must be from way up North
:for that to be southern. I think the main reason people from NY don't
:check from the South (and West) is cause they are close minded.

what the hell was I thinking? I seriously knew that E-40 and his crew
were from the Bay, I guess I was just on a roll of wack names from out of
town and I forgot where they were from. my bad.

No
:personal attack, but the impression I get from alot of people I meet
:from the east (I lived there for a while) and the mix tapes I hear from
:there is this holier than thou, we created rap, our stuff is the pure
:good stuff.

so what's your point? hip hop was founded on the east coast, the first
people to have the dj and mc combined. I think the east has some right to
feel they have rights to hip hop's roots since it all began over here. As
far as the east putting itself on a pedistal, that's how everyone is,
everywhere: the west has plenty of people who think anything outside the
state of california is garbage: just look at westside connection. The
south does the same thing too. There are exceptions from every coast that
aren't about who started it and who owns it, there are even plenty of
people from the east who would agree to that.

:> How many album covers can they make of some guy smoking crack,


:> some dirty half naked hooker with her hand on her ass, some typical media
:> portraid playa with a cigar, a cup of bubbly, and money floating around?
:
:What about the NY ruffneck with all boyz dressed in winter clothing?

the real question is: what would be a good, original, thought out cover?
everyone's guilty here.

:> They are so unoriginal and predictable that it gets monotonous when E-40


:> puts out his cousin, his brother, and his best friend out to talk the same
:> shit over and over again.
:
:I assume applies to Wu Tang, BCC, Flip Mode, and all the crews out east
:who aren't exactly showing the diversity of Plato in their writings.

here's my main beef with the south: they use no creativity. They may talk
about it, be about it, but that's it. If master p slung crack, killed his
homeboy, pulled twenty women in the same night, and then did two life
bids, that's all he's going to talk about, nothing more, nothing less. He
may tell a story he made up but it involves the same old shit, the same
tired, weak, strictly played out themes. People from the east and the
west come with creativity, they are not limited to what is in front of
their eyes, but where their imagination takes them and where their mind
wanders. Some mc's from the east do exactly what the south does and drop
rhymes about street life, but that shit is dead already. People can come
with as many new ways as they want to explain the ghetto but it's not
creative until they let their minds flow free, use some type of
creativity/imagination. The south suffers from this disease that they
have to drop rhymes about what is there, the obvious, the day to day
life. But that's all average shit that everyone knows about and can
relate to, basically that anyone could talk about. When an mc comes from
the heart, the soul, the mind, and flips it on the original/innovative
tip, that's when he stands out above the rest and that's what a lot of the
southern mc's lack and the east/west coast mc's don't. The other thing
that bothers me is that master p and company have their own label and push
their own product yet they continue not to abuse this and put out some
next level type shit. Not everyone can be an mc and I think the process
of weeding out lyrical weakness is practically dead and it flourishes in
the south.

:I personally don't listen to Master P, but I think my reason is


:different than most from NY (not saying you necessarily). If you got a
:tape in NY and you just say its from the South they don't wanna hear
:it. When I was out East I had the Rass Kass bootleg, no one was
:checking for it. Even when I said, let me put some of my coast in, they
:let me, but then started clowning him. East Coast headz have a hard
:time critically evaluating work from other regions (not all, but enuf so
:that you are apprehensive about introducing fresh new west stuff out
:there).

if it sounds like typical, stereotype bullshit, then I don't pay any
attention. When mc's from other regions can come correctly and flip some
universally dope rhymes, I can appreciate it. I think ras kass is the
shit but I do know some people who won't check for him because of his home
base location. But the same goes for other coasts involving music from
the east.


:That's real funny comin from someone in the East. As far as I can tell


:the east certainly has its share of playa-materialistic-dope heads on
:the mic. In some sense ya'll started it (from Kool G to Jay Z to
:Redman).

but in the east, mc's have so much more diversity and can approach a
number of topics while still maintaining their own integrity as an
artist. I haven't heard that much diversity from the south, only from
Goodie MoB and Outkast. Other than them, I am left with the master p's
and eightball's.

:But to end this we got dope albums from all regions and wack stuff from


:all regions. If you don't like Master P don't sleep on all the South
:cause you'll miss OutKast. If you don't Wu don't sleep on all the East
:cause you'll miss Company Flow. And if you don't like E-40 don't sleep
:on all the West cause you'll miss Acey.

that's what I'm talking about, it just seems like the south has a very
limited listing of incredibly dope groups: try outkast and goodie mob.
you don't hear much about the southern underground which may, but not to
my knowledge, be on some next shit and be dropping gems left and right.
It's just that from what I see, the south has a limited range of mc's and
topics, with a couple of exceptions.

Suave

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Jul 21, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/21/97
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In article <19970721064...@ladder02.news.aol.com>,
spir...@aol.com (Spirit68) wrote:

:>B-legit, E-40, D-shot, H.W.A., Brotha Lynch Hung, Mo B. Dick, Mercedes,


:>The Gambino Family, MC Serv-On... do I have to go on? these names are so
:>damn played it's rediculous. In general, any names that take classic
:>novels, stupid made up mob family names, expensive foreign car companies,
:>and especially if they use a letter in the name, are all bullshit.

:
:Niko, you just played yourself and I'll list point by point every reason


:why.
:
:1) None of the names you listed are "Mob family names".

the Gambino Family is a mob reference.

:2) Only one of the names you listed was from a foreign car company,


:showing that this is actually the exception rather than the rule.
:3) Only one of the names comes from a classic novel, again showing that
:this is the exception rather than the rule. (And isn't being the exception
:to the rule part of being innovative. Thank you for disproving your own
:point)

just because they are exceptions, does that make them any better? There
shouldn't be anyone named after Moby Dick or a damn foreign car company
because that's stupid, it's not hip hop. What does Moby Dick have to do
with hip hop? And Mercedes certainly hasn't funded any hip hop concerts
lately. What if there was one mc's name for every wack idea they could
come up with, even though there's just one of each type, it doesn't change
the fact that they're wack. These names are wack as hell and shouldn't
even exist in the first place.

:4) You say using a letter in an MC name is stupid. I guess you hate Kool G


:Rap, Chuck D, A-Plus (of Souls), Eric B, shall I go on?

I think Kool G Rap is a stupid name and so is A-plus. If I hadn't
listened to them, or their affiliates, I would probably think it was some
stereotypical, non skilled mc. Eric B and Chuck D are the mc's actual
names, correct? I can't knock anyone for using their name. I think Jay-Z
is a dumb name too.

:> They


:>sound so damn stupid and are a big reason people up here don't check for
:>the south.

:
:Oh, so people around your way only buy records if the artist has a really


:cool name? People around your way must be superficial idiots.

people around your way must be overly judgemental and make broad
generalizations about people they don't know. Now before you think I'm
contradicting myself from the statement that we don't check for southern
mc's because of their names, let me explain: I have listened to Master P,
D-shot, HWA, and a shitload of other groups from down south, and after
seeing, time after time, what master p puts out as product, I can assume
he will not drastically change his style and become an insightful
intellect with knowledge of the world outside of the south. Also, every
new mc he seems to bring to the table has followed a pattern of garbage,
stereotypical names, which leads me to connect the garbage names with the
garbage music. So now, instead of wasting my time and money on someone
master p put out, I can deduce, from the wack name, that the music will be
the same old bullshit. A lot of people think like this up here: master p
and all his brethren come with the same style of music and it's been a few
years now of the same crap. I'm talking from experience.

:>How many album covers can they make of some guy smoking crack,


:>some dirty half naked hooker with her hand on her ass, some typical media
:>portraid playa with a cigar, a cup of bubbly, and money floating around?

:
:Hmmm. I guess you really hated the "Paid In Full" cover with the dollar


:bills all in the background and Rakim and Eric B with the fat rope chains.
:Or, better yet, KRS holding gats on the first two BDP albums. I'm sure
:those covers were indicative of the low musical quality of the records
:underneath, right (sarcasm)? Why the hell are you judging albums by their
:covers?

if you see a cracked out hooker, standing next to some playalistic, gold
covered, versace dressed, big car driving, pimp look alike, what do you
think the topics will range from on the album? How about if the same
cover, with different crack heads, hoes and players, in different
positions, was put out fifteen times in a row by a self promoted label.
What would you assume the topics covered on the album would be?

eric B and BDP's albu covers? Did eric b put money on EVERY SINGLE ALBUM
COVER HE EVER MADE? Was KRS making a statement and then not beating it to
death by playing it out. I think you might have an arguement if KRS had
put guns on every album cover he ever made and then made mad lion and
channel live hold guns in similar positions on their album covers, but did
he?

:>They are so unoriginal and predictable that it gets monotonous when E-40
(change to master p)
:>puts out his cousin, his brother, and his best friend out to talk the


:same
:>shit over and over again.
:

:Can you say "Wu-Tang"? Case closed.

But the east is so wide and diversified that Wu tang does not represent
the entire repetoir of the coast. Unfortunately, the south does not make
incredible moves and has very limited talent that's evident to the rest of
the world. The south is basically represented by a limited number of
groups and when a major force from a limited resource comes the way
sick-wit-it records came, the south is affected by the impact.

:>hip hop artists with skill get put out up here, they don't force their


:way
:>into people's ears by selling enough drugs to get a record company.

:
:Actually, most rappers in New York get put on by somebody. Name the last


:East Coast rapper who came out on a major label who was completely
:unaffialiated with any previously released crews. You can count those acts
:on one hand...

what's your point? that's the record business. these labels down south:
rap-a-lot, suave house, etc. are rapper produced and they have the power
to put anyone they want on, yet they put their half sisters on because
they can imitate everyone else in the click.

I hope I could clear some things up.

right back at you,

peace.

Miotch!

unread,
Jul 22, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/22/97
to

Steve 'Flash' Juon (dj.f...@pobox.com) wrote:
: By listening first and making assumptions later. By checking out
: artists like OutKast, Goodie Mob, Y'all So Stupid, Bushwick Bill,
: Mystikal, Mia X, and LISTENING first. Listen to the lyrics. Check
: out the beats. Tell me if the artists I just named can't combine
: both as well as any East coast MC you can name.

I think the artists you've listed are exceptions to the rule...besides,
people like "RaiseUp" aren't defending *them*--they're defending all of
that played-out "playa" bullshit like Master P & TRU.

I wouldn't ever front on Goodie Mob or Outkast, and ESPECIALLY NOT ON
YSS!!!

That's why I don't subscribe to this "coast" theory crap. If that were
the case, I'd never listen to the Pharcyde, Latyrx, Hiero, etc. because
the West is where a LOT of the rest of that wack playa/gangsta stereotyped
shit comes out.

I probably also wouldn't listen to anybody from the East coast because of
artists like Mobb Deep, CNN, Nas, Puffy, etc.

Miotch!

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Jul 22, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/22/97
to

Anthony Sebro (key...@umich.edu) wrote:

: Yeah.. I remember that I picked up Y'all So Stupid, and I kinda


: liked it (although I felt that they were riding on Pharcyde's
: coattails a bit too much). Then, I had my walkman stolen with
: the tape still inside. I was quite salty about the whole
: affair....

Don't sweat it, Tony...you can pick up YSS's "Van Full of Pakistans" for
about 5 or 6 bones on the clearance racks nowadays...

Kinda sad, but a great deal!

OverTIME

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Jul 22, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/22/97
to

In article <ndt2-18079...@cu-dialup-0028.cit.cornell.edu>,
nd...@cornell.edu (Suave) wrote:

B-legit, E-40, D-shot, H.W.A., Brotha Lynch Hung, Mo B. Dick, Mercedes,
> The Gambino Family, MC Serv-On... do I have to go on? these names are so
> damn played it's rediculous. In general, any names that take classic
> novels, stupid made up mob family names, expensive foreign car companies,
> and especially if they use a letter in the name, are all bullshit. They
> sound so damn stupid and are a big reason people up here don't check for
> the south. How many album covers can they make of some guy smoking crack,
> some dirty half naked hooker with her hand on her ass, some typical media
> portraid playa with a cigar, a cup of bubbly, and money floating around?
> They are so unoriginal and predictable that it gets monotonous when E-40
> puts out his cousin, his brother, and his best friend out to talk the same
> shit over and over again.


Say maine, I aint really tryin to argue wit you playa. We will not agree.
I caint convince you, and yyou caint convince me

This shit is moot...cuz i can name just as many stupid eastcoast names...
that wuz point point in my original post....to show it can work both wayz potna.

Anyway, whuts in a name???

As far as album covers go, you wanna talk a walk back down memory lane
and talk bout Treach with a Chainsaw or Mobb Deep with sickles, the RZA
wit FANGS.....
and countless otha assorted bustaz, marks, and sucka-types. Busterism has
no locality.



> : You probably wouldn't believe it if you listen to Kari (no dis
> :intended) but hardly any eastcoast music gets played where I'm
> :at.(Houston TEXAS)
>
> I believe it: I have never heard a master P song played on the radio, sold
> in a store, or even bumped in a ride up here. I'm telling you, people may
> know the names and faces of the south, but we don't check for them, at
> all.


Like I said before, this works the same way. I personally check fo
EVERYTHANG, but the majority of folks down here are the SAME way yall are
only reversed...
The only time you even see or hear an eastcoastcentric artists is on the
video shows, like BET or MTV

I told a dude this a long time ago, he couldn't believe it....

The easiest way to END a party down this way is play an eastcoast record...

Now, take a few deep breaths. I know its hard to believe.....

Like i said in my original post...99.9% of folks down this way had neva
even heard on Nas when 'If i ruled the world' came out.


>
> :If you a man and you mean whut you say, SPEAK CLEARLY.
>
> is there a universal language of hip hop? yes, in most cases when a
> rapper drops a verse, it can be heard around the U.S. and Canada but some
> mc's confuse the hell out of me: you think east coast mc's don't speak
> clear enough? What the hell is E-40 talking about? I can't catch
> sentence he recites because he makes up his own slang and starts to
> confuse muthafuckas with his mumble and jumble style. I'll give you that
> the east has some unclear people but don't look this far to get confusing,
> you got plenty of that back home.


I told you B4, E-40 is from the Bay area, not Down South.
Plus, too many people dont overstand this:


And you really came outta left field wit that 'universal hip-hop language'
bullshit.

Language has enumeral thangs that influence it. LOCALITY is a major one.
You dont think so goto Africa or Russia and see how many different
DIALECTS there are.

Using your logic, all Africans speak 'African' too.

You probably learned this ideal in a class at the TEMPLE of HIP-HOP ;)


E-40 aint makin up wordz, THAT's the way people out that way talk 4REAL.
I have no problem overstanding E-40, and if at sum point i do, it just
makes me rewind and try to overstand.

E-40 is one of the REALEST mufuckaz in the rap game PERIOD.

That track on RHYME & REASON is SUM SERIOUS boy...

You might not be on his level of the GAME though...
E stands for his first initial,
40 is the maximum sentencing statute in the Federal Criminal Just-Us system.
That's why he had an album called FEDERAL....

Sick-Wit-It started out the trunk playa...no fakeness involved.

"See thru my education illustrations were the KEY
See where I'M FROM only BUSTAZ have to pay a fee..." -Eightball


>
> : Whut's wrong wit BLACK stereotypes anyway?? Especially if its bout
> :being YOUNG, BLACK, ALIVE, AND LEGALLY RICH.
>
> who needs to hear that shit?

I guess not you......

> do you think messages of selling crack until
> you have enough money to buy your own home and mercedes jeep is a good
> portrayal? Where's the positive messages? What about the raps about
> bitches, playin' bitches, and that bitches only want money? Where are the
> positive reiforcements in a young black man's life? There's more to life
> than being a player, selling crack and being rich. These aren't good
> models and they only contirbute to the negative portrayal of rap and its
> artists by the white media. That's what's wrong with the stereotypes of
> blacks that these mc's from the south are talking about.

Its obvious you dont listen to the music cuz you still generalizing...
There are COUNTLESS positive messages...and who said it has to be positive
in the first place...that aint whut hip-hop is BOUT.

If you dont believe me...go *listen* to THE MESSAGE again...

And once again i'll counter you with a REFLECTION...
Wu-tang raps bout selling dope all the time (ghost & Rae in particular)
So does Jay-Z, Mobb Deep, BIG, Boot Camp, Kool G Rap, Nas, Foxxy Brown,
Naughty, etc. etc. (i could go on and on and on and on.......)

Plus, WE goto CHURCH and our FAMLEES fo 'positive reinforcement' not to rappers.

And where I'm from...NOBODY cares bout how they 'look' to white folks,the
media, or anybody else for that matter.

Who gives a fuck bout anotha man's 'standards'? Anybody can make up a
test that you caint pass...just like any idiot can write a book that says,
"You aint shit"

Try living YOUR life and creating your OWN 'standards'.
It used to be 'standard' for Black people to be SLAVES.


They already have US typecast ANYWAY fool!
that's why OUTKAST calls themselves OUTKASTS. You probably dont REALLY
Overstand them either. You just think cuz you dont here gunshots and alot
of cussin that its 'cool'

Whut do you think 'Jazzy Belle' is bout?

Or most of the GooDIEm.O.B.'s album?

I bet i'd get a REAL kick outta your perception...and you wouldn't like
them anymore if i told you MINE...

I OVERSTAND whut they REALLY talkinbout...

And nobody Down South is lookin towards rap fo 'positive reinforcement' either.
We overstand that is hip-hop is ENTERTAINMENT.
Rappers aint role-models...they are PEOPLE, just like ME & YOU.

Rap records dont make people commit killings or sell dope.
STRAIGHT UP playa.

From personal experience, I can garawn-tee that nobody EVER listened to
a rap record and then decided that becuz a Master P or an Eightball said
they got all the 'hoez and kiloz', imma be just like them. As a matter of
fact, Master P's whole purpose is to try and get rid of this type of
behavior...HE may be in too deep, but he can stop the next lil kid from
doin the same...


It aint all bout this RAP homeboy......

That's why people like KAM want to run Cube's as up outta town.
Too many people think that just cuz NWA were studio gangtsaz, ALL gangsta
rappers are.

I thought shit like the LA Rebellion woulda convinced ya'll.....

> :Then there's the CORN-BALL factor. All those niggaz in the eastcoast
> :'hip-hop inner circle' who get big propz from all the magazines, video
> :shows etc. cuz they labels dump big money into puttin them on. Then they
> :put out half-azz shit.
>
> I agree with that but Redman is an ill mc, he's definitely above a lot of
> heads out there and he's got skills beyond belief.


Now see, now we gettin somewhere...
THIS is how you should have presented yourself from JUMPSTREET, i.e. in a
NON-THREATENING manner.

Your original post wuz basically a 'FUCK YOU' letter when i opened the thread...
And imma tell you PLAYA, you can best believe if its gone be sum FUCKIN'
goin own...

Imma be the one doin the fuckin'. 4REAL.

People think that GANGSTA rap aint REAL. It might be studio on the
eastcoast but imma tell you playa...aint no PUNKZ round dese here
parts....
Cuz if ya talk the talk...you best to walk the walk OR GET WALKED OWN.

And i been to Kali too, and its the same way out that way.


Like RICHIE RICH say, "Aint no NEW-JACK niggaz fittin come in here and
ride out on GOLD!!!"

> : Whut eva happened to EARNING YOUR RESPECT??
> :Nas went from Half-time to being Pablo Escobar.
> :Most artists Down South have PAID DUES for years by the time they get ANY
> :national attention.
> :A bunch of corny niggaz who wear funny colored baggy clothes and hip-hop
> :dreadz, funny lookin hockey jerseys, and sports gloves...
> :all that camoflague and bullshit. You niggaz need to get a fade and a
> :job, holla at some women....DO SOMETHANG. But i forgot ya'll are too busy
> :KEEPIN IT REAL.
>
> hip hop artists with skill get put out up here, they don't force their way
> into people's ears by selling enough drugs to get a record company. And
> what is keepin' it real? Just because NYC cats haven't killed before,
> haven't sold tons of drugs, and haven't pimped 100 hoes, they don't
> deserve to be on the mic? Hip hop is more than this, much more than
> this. Like Kari said, hip hop culture is pretty much black culture and
> black culture is not even close to being just about busting guns and
> busting nuts. Are the people who don't keep it real, fake? I know a lot
> of people who don't seem to fit your criteria and I think the hip hop
> community would disappear if the only people allowed were the Master P's
> and the Eightballs.

Maine, that aint whut i said. Erebody down this way aint sellin drugz to
get record labels, etc. anyway. And once again, whut makes you think
that they are forceing themselves into erebody's ears?

I went to SCARFACES record release party and people were lines up around
the BLOCK.

anotha generalization....

And i didnt say that the gangsta rappers are the only ones who keep it
real...i said they are the ones that I LIKE, I RELATE TO.

And being Black all bout bustin capz and nutz but you caint deny that IS
apart of it though.

You wanna get serious, we can playa. I've got a BA in journalism, and a
LIFE-TIME GETO PASS.

Plus, my whole point wuz just summarized in your last statement:

YOU WROTE:
"I know a lot of people who don't seem to fit your criteria and I think

the hip-hop community would disappear if the only people allowed were the


Master P's and the Eightballs."

Now, substitute Master P & Eightball for any eastcoast artists (take your pick)


This is the same way that i feel. Which wuz MY point.
Try to overstand.
See me.


How you gone tell ME whut Black culture is anywayz?? Arent you WHITE??


This is where our basic DIFFERENCE of opinion REALLY stems from.

You can *NEVER* fully overstand Black culture if you aint Black.

I dont care how many books you read, shows you watch, people you think
you know, or records you listen to. 4REAL.

> :This is my personal KICKER: The REALITY FACTOR.
> :
> :When I listen to an MC i listen fo the CONVICTION in his/her voice. That's
> :whut makes them good to the PLAYAZ down Southside...how SERIOUS they are
> :bout whut they say.
> :erebody thinks that PLAYA shit is a corny stereotype...nigga there are
> :some BOSS PLAYAZ networkin all over the SOUTH 4 REAL.
> :Niggaz Down South aint tryin to hear none of that shit bout this system
> :here in Babylon. GANGSTERISM is deeply rooted Down this way potna, cuz fo
> :the most part there aint no middle class. You either BROKE or paid. There
> :are plenty of niggaz Down South strugglin in the GETO. who view the GAME
> :as a WAR...If you been BROKE or LOCKED you'd Overstand.
>
> but don't limit hip hop just to that. there are so many other aspects...

I wasnt, again i wuz talkin bout whut I like, and whuts POPULAR where
I'm from.



> seriously, though, the south definitely defines itself and I respect it
> for that. i have respect for all the mcs and producers who are doing
> their thing down there in the south, I just don't like their messages,
> their flows, their ideas, or their music in general. I USED to like them
> back in the day but I have to elevate my mind past all the negativity that
> comes from the southern artists' music.

You REALLY dont get it do you??

"Nigga to love G-SHIT you gotta live in the GETO!" --D of Trinity Garden

Cuz my perception of Southern hip-hop is nothin but love & positivity....
SEE THE ABOVE NAMED STEREOTYPES (i.e. Young, Black, Alive, Legally rich)


I already have enough bullshit in
> my life as it is, so why do I have to hear about someone else's drama
> 24-7? Music is, in part, a release of stress for me and I can't calm down
> and feel the music of the south when all they talk about is how shitty
> life is at the bottom of the economic ladder (close to where I am) and how
> fucking enjoyable it is at the top of the ladder (where they are). The
> south just needs to lighten up in general...
>
> peace,
>
> --
> after eight years of my life of hip hop and thinking,
> the world keeps spinning, so lately I've been drinking...
>
> Niko Suave

To quote one of yo homiez, "WHATEVA man."

That's cuz you dont Overstand playa principle #1:

Lift as you climb, cuz from the bottom, the only way to go is UP.

Stay UP!!!

**This document was created using EBONICSv2.0 by:

OverTIME., " 3rd COAST. Comin' Down.....DEEP...& Dirty foe dat SOUTH
Gleem'N & Lean'N from WORLD-WIDE TEXAS
That's PLEXUS 4 ya'll HATERZ!!"

RAI$E UP!! Productions
THE BLACK COLLEGE STAR NETWORK
P.O. BOX 2369
PRAIRIE VIEW, TEXAS 77446-2369

(Home of the Prairie View A & M University Fighting Panthers, HBCU/SWAC)



AD-VANCED SCOUT ENTERTAINMENT GROUP(c) 1997
1.800.506.3977


ITS ALL IN THE GAME.
all rights reserved


7-21-97, B-A-B-U. Down South 101. Lesson #3

4REAL.(tm)

"Now in the eyes of some this may be NEGATIVE
But how can this be when in this HOOD
I GOTZ TO LIVE!!!!" --Kottonmouth

ITS GOIN' DOWN!! comin' soon to a GETO near you:

www.raiseup.org

Southern Brothaz that'll BREAK YO AZZ OFF politely.

++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
++++ see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/mumia002.htm ++++

Da Smurf 1

unread,
Jul 22, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/22/97
to

someone else wrote:
>That's why I don't subscribe to this "coast" theory crap. >If that were
>the case, I'd never listen to the Pharcyde, Latyrx, Hiero, >etc. because
>the West is where a LOT of the rest of that wack >playa/gangsta
stereotyped
>shit comes out.

finally, someone gives props to the real emcees on my coast. i personally
hate most of that gangsta and playa shit, but everyone thinks that this is
all that the west has. most real emcees in cali could get with any new
york emcees, but people don't look at these emcees because theyre west
coast artists.

>I probably also wouldn't listen to anybody from the East >coast because
of
>artists like Mobb Deep, CNN, Nas, Puffy, etc.

now you can't tell me that "illmatic" by nas and "the infamous...." by
mobb deep werent tite. it was shitten by nas and the other 2 mobb deep
lp's were weak as fuck, but the infamous and illmatic are hiphop classy's.


smurf 1

Thanxsa292

unread,
Jul 23, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/23/97
to

In article <raiseup-2107...@ppp-207-193-14-28.hstntx.swbell.net>,
rai...@swbell.net (OverTIME) writes:

>
>As far as album covers go, you wanna talk a walk back down memory lane
>and talk bout Treach with a Chainsaw or Mobb Deep with sickles, the RZA
>wit FANGS.....
>and countless otha assorted bustaz, marks, and sucka-types. Busterism
has
>no locality.

But at the time that shit was phat and they were being original.
But now theyr'e off it. As far as wack covers go Master P
has come out with more than anyone I can think of.
Mabey it's because he come's out with so many acts he
run's out of idea's.

the Wise1

Thanxsa292

unread,
Jul 23, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/23/97
to

In article <19970722072...@ladder02.news.aol.com>,

dasm...@aol.com (Da Smurf 1) writes:

>
>now you can't tell me that "illmatic" by nas and "the infamous...." by
>mobb deep werent tite. it was shitten by nas and the other 2 mobb deep
>lp's were weak as fuck, but the infamous and illmatic are hiphop
classy's.

Hell on earth was a great album. Why are people acting like mobb deep
changed. Sure, the Hell on earth video was wack as hell.
(Whoever directed that shit should be shot) But they kept shit the same on
Hell on earth. Only phatter rhyme's and better production. But I guess
everyone got their own opinion.

the Wise1

"Me and my man pioneered this violent nigga rap shit"-Prodigy

Des49311

unread,
Jul 23, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/23/97
to

>As far as wack covers go .........
I would say some of the wackset album covers ever have comr from the BCC.
I love Bootcamp but look at Heltah Skeltah and OGC album covers. My
friends and I would be overjoyed evertime they had a new ad out or
something. Thy're so corny and cheesy. Good for a laugh but it never took
away from the dope music. The BCC album had a better cover but the music
was wack. Go figure. Mater P and his goons are still the champions of wack
album covers though.


"My ladder lets me elevate over MCs that are hella fake"-DEL Tha Funkee Homosapien

Des Tha Sunchild (An Intelligent AOL user)

Des49311

unread,
Jul 23, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/23/97
to

Its just all of the wack Mobb deep clones out there ruing it for Havoc and
P. If you liked The Infamous(which most people that have heard it did)
then you should basically like Hell On Earth. I don't see why people dont
like Mobb Deep now if thye liked them 3 years ago.They haven't really
changed that much.

Thanxsa292

unread,
Jul 23, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/23/97
to

In article <33D3A8...@pobox.com>, Steve 'Flash' Juon
<dj.f...@pobox.com> writes:

>
>By listening first and making assumptions later. By checking out
>artists like OutKast, Goodie Mob, Y'all So Stupid, Bushwick Bill,
>Mystikal, Mia X, and LISTENING first. Listen to the lyrics. Check
>out the beats. Tell me if the artists I just named can't combine
>both as well as any East coast MC you can name.
>

>Peace, Flash

You like Bushwick Bill and Mystikal? Mia X is straight and makes me
think mabey all those acts Master P comes out with arn't as wack as
I thought. Out Kast and Goodie Mob is mad dope thou.

P.S. Am I the only one who thought the Jazzy Bell remix
was commercial as hell. There was nothing wrong with the
album version and they had to change it a throw Baby Face
on the track.

the Wise1

Thanxsa292

unread,
Jul 23, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/23/97
to

>
>Like i said in my original post...99.9% of folks down this way had neva
>even heard on Nas when 'If i ruled the world' came out.
>
>

Yeah the fuck right. Everyone heard that shit. I'm in NC.
And even thou most everyone is East oriented as far as
music goes the radio station still plays it share of
master P, Mia X, Tela, ect. I seriously doubt only .1 percent
of the west coast heard "If I Ruled the World".

the Wise1

Thanxsa292

unread,
Jul 24, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/24/97
to

In article <19970723191...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
des4...@aol.com (Des49311) writes:

> I would say some of the wackset album covers ever have comr from the
BCC.
>I love Bootcamp but look at Heltah Skeltah and OGC album covers. My
>friends and I would be overjoyed evertime they had a new ad out or
>something. Thy're so corny and cheesy. Good for a laugh but it never took
>away from the dope music. The BCC album had a better cover but the music
>was wack. Go figure. Mater P and his goons are still the champions