ras kass his evolution & censored
Peter Agoston
artist to a female friend and i played her 'nature of the threat',
'maranatin', 'anything goes', the shit with twista from his last album and
another weak crossover attempt.
having not listened to ras kass in a while, a few things came to mind while
i was doing this.
why is the part about thanksgiving in 'nature of the threat' muffled
with those police-altercation sounds? it was like that on the single
as well, but the demo was regular. do you think it was for any specific
reason, perhaps to shake up the listener a bit if they happen to doze
or was it to muffle (read - censor) what he was saying in that part of the
song?
this girl is extremely intelligent and seemed to be able to totally
appreciate ras kass' intellect and could understand, for the most
part, what he was saying. his homophobic undertones turned her
off and she didn't find all of the mysoginstic shit too appealing, but
overall she was definitely feeling him.
i attempted to explain how his first album was a commercial failure
because of several things -
failing out with western hemisfear thus the removal of the critically
acclaimed voodu! and mean green tracks (although some were still
left on the lp).
his beats weren't appealing to the masses because of their monotony,
or at least what i came to believe was their monotony, although i still
enjoy 'soul on ice' very much.
and possibly the wait, combind with the hype and then lack of doper
material to back it up.
so then i tried to relay that into the changes made for the second album,
-the almost crutch-like usuage of cameo appearances (read - selling points).
which in my opinion was totally unessessary, as i'm sure other agree. no one
wants or needs to hear ras kass w/ twista, bad azz, rc, etc. saafir maybe,
but the beat was
weak, kurupt - possibly, but not really. rza, sure, but on another weak beat
don't even put it out. dr dre & mack 10 - only if you want to crossover.
-horrible attempt, musically, to crossover. ras kass has made many
intelligent comments on how to successfully maintain geniuine credibility
with the heads while being able to be bumped on the radio and in clubs,
but simply put - his lyrics aren't simple enough for that. and on top of
lackluster
production it's a useless attempt that might get you a check in the
beginning
but will ultimately lose the fans that really appreciate your work, those
that
buy your records - thus the label gets frustrated with your bad sales and
you
falter.
(as a side note, i'd take the then horrid "anything goes" and "maranatin'"
over the bulk of "rassassination" anyday).
then i mentioned how ras kass then moved from la to nyc, which in
my opinion is an important factor is the relation to his evolution as an
artist. i guess like common, he probably felt like he would be able to
do more bizness in nyc. work with more nyc producers and make more
accessible music to the nyc consumers as well as collaborate with more
nyc artists.
the outcome, so far,
beatminerz prod. "oral sex", battlecat's old ass version was much
liver than this. weak.
that b side diamond posse cut, weak.
i haven't heard the killah priest song, but judging from the response
of his album, it's probably weak - am i right?
the fourhorsemen, ras kass, canibus, killah priest and kurupt (right?)
washed up fools.
i say this knowing this 3rd album is soon to drop, i do wonder if
it'll be worse than 'rassassination'. i say all of this still knowing that
ras kass is an incredible rapper. but maybe its just stemmed from
confusion like why people like oc, ag, common and others had to go
down the same path. i know he needs to pay rent and buy beedies and
shit, but is there any rapper than stays paid and still is respected?
yes, gangstarr, de la. i mean totally respected, jay z is respected but
he still is 80% crossover, but then again you have to start looking at
what is now considered crossover and what is "real rap" and if it's
all the same. the lines have blurred and that is what makes rappers
like ras kass get lost in the mix down.
any comments?
p
Michael Fthenos
Peter Agoston <rap...@teleport.net> wrote in message
news:Q%gS4.7715$0L4.5...@nntp3.onemain.com...
> last night i was trying to break down ras kass's evolution as a hip-hop
> artist to a female friend and i played her 'nature of the threat',
> 'maranatin', 'anything goes', the shit with twista from his last album and
> another weak crossover attempt.
>
> having not listened to ras kass in a while, a few things came to mind
while
> i was doing this.
>
> why is the part about thanksgiving in 'nature of the threat' muffled
> with those police-altercation sounds? it was like that on the single
> as well, but the demo was regular. do you think it was for any specific
> reason, perhaps to shake up the listener a bit if they happen to doze
> or was it to muffle (read - censor) what he was saying in that part of the
> song?
>
hmm, good question...
> this girl is extremely intelligent and seemed to be able to totally
> appreciate ras kass' intellect and could understand, for the most
> part, what he was saying. his homophobic undertones turned her
> off and she didn't find all of the mysoginstic shit too appealing, but
> overall she was definitely feeling him.
>
>
it takes balls to try and get a girl (was she a hip hop head?) to listen to
someone like ras....most chicks I know wouldn't give it a chance
> -the almost crutch-like usuage of cameo appearances (read - selling
points).
> which in my opinion was totally unessessary, as i'm sure other agree. no
one
> wants or needs to hear ras kass w/ twista, bad azz, rc, etc. saafir maybe,
> but the beat was
> weak, kurupt - possibly, but not really. rza, sure, but on another weak
beat
> don't even put it out. dr dre & mack 10 - only if you want to crossover.
>
the h20proof beat was very strong...ditto for the end.......I kinda skip
over the middle tracks...11 to 14 consistently though
MF
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msg
Agoston" <rap...@teleport.net> wrote:
>i attempted to explain how his first album was a commercial
>failure because of several things -
>his beats weren't appealing to the masses because of their
>monotony, or at least what i came to believe was their
>monotony, although i still enjoy 'soul on ice' very much.
the beats are just kinda bland; nothing to get hyped up over. i
still think that diamond remix is overhyped/boring.
>and possibly the wait, combind with the hype and then lack of
>doper material to back it up.
what hype? seriously, was there any hype on commercial radio? i
sincerely doubt it.
>so then i tried to relay that into the changes made for the
>second album,
>-the almost crutch-like usuage of cameo appearances (read -
>selling points).which in my opinion was totally unessessary, as
>i'm sure other agree.
for the most part true. kurupt and ras seem like an okay, battle
combo, the beat was horrible though. rza and ras seemed pretty
good; i thought the beat was one of the nicest on the album.
saafir didn't even rhyme on his track; the beat on that song was
just pathetic. finally, i liked 'ghetto fabulous'; cool beat,
funny lyrics.
>-horrible attempt, musically, to crossover...his lyrics aren't
>simple enough for that. and on top of lackluster production
>it's a useless attempt
ras' lyrical complexity and his flow effs up his attempts to
crossover. w/such overly complex, punchline-laden lyrics, he
just can't rock the party. plus, he doesn't have a real strong
delivery/presence like lesser MCs like DMX, but he can't water
his shit down to the level of So-So Dupri, either.
>i guess like common, he probably felt like he would be able to
>do more bizness in nyc. work with more nyc producers and make
>more accessible music to the nyc consumers as well as
>collaborate with more nyc artists.
remember, how everyone was heralding the production on
rassassination? "Borrowing top young producers from Dr. Dre's
Aftermath label..." In the Nelson voice, "HA!"
>i say this knowing this 3rd album is soon to drop, i do wonder
>if it'll be worse than 'rassassination'.
nah, if he's cutting down on the blatant crossover shit, it has
to be better than rassassination.
edmund
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Peter Agoston
> it takes balls to try and get a girl (was she a hip hop head?) to listen
to
> someone like ras....most chicks I know wouldn't give it a chance
oh i just got it like that playa! heh heh, if you're in my room then
you have to listen to what i'm going to play you. the females like
it when you test em like though...:)
Peter Agoston
> >and possibly the wait, combind with the hype and then lack of
> >doper material to back it up.
>
> what hype? seriously, was there any hype on commercial radio? i
> sincerely doubt it.
i was talking about 'underground hype', the hype on here is illmatic,
although this is still an extremely contained group of heads. yeah, not too
much radio play,
but the peoples that had the demo listened to it religiously, at least i
knew i
did.
> ras' lyrical complexity and his flow effs up his attempts to
> crossover. w/such overly complex, punchline-laden lyrics, he
> just can't rock the party. plus, he doesn't have a real strong
> delivery/presence like lesser MCs like DMX, but he can't water
> his shit down to the level of So-So Dupri, either.
exactly, but why even make the attempt. same with OC, AG,
and anyone else that had the utmost street/underground-cred.
is the money that intoxicating? it must be, because thats the
only thing i can think of, why trade in repest and honor?
peace
p
culturama
quest19...@webtv.net
evolution as a hip-hop artist to a female friend and i played her
'nature of the threat', 'maranatin', 'anything goes', the shit with
twista from his last album and another weak crossover attempt. >>
I think Ras Kass inadvertently jinxed himself. He openly says that's
he's an emcee and the "glitz and glamour" of the likes of a Jay-Z is not
for him. He'd rather "get dap, fuck a platinum plaque". But last I
heard, he moved to N.Y., presumably for career enhancement. This does
NOT sound like a kid who doesn't want the spotlight and the "respect"
that goes with a major Hip Hop act. I say let your music speak for
itself and have a giant of a record label to push your product.
PEACE!
Peter Agoston
oh, thats when you play it off by stroking their hair and
gassing them with compliments. it's not like YOU feel
the same way about women as ras kass does, right??? :)
> no doubt, BUT if i try that shit, i get the bad looks whenever
misogynistic
> shit comes up...:)
>
> MF
>
>
> --
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Agoston
nipples the size of silver dollars'.
Michael Fthenos
WillHIGH01
>
>p
Yeah: Do you really think this is a valid thesis for a Master's Degree? I mean,
it is long enough and all, but....
www.theamphibians.com
>acclaimed voodu! and mean green tracks (although some were still
>left on the lp).
this is NOT a factor. i just listened to the undergroiund version of "soul on
ice" (the one that never saw release) and frankly, the beats were not that much
better than the released version. and "etc" and "drama" were unchanged
essentially. ditto for "on earth..." and "nature" seems basically the same
(unless my ears fool me, someone stole my "soul on ice" [priority version] CD,
so i have to rely on memory).
>his beats weren't appealing to the masses because of their monotony,
>or at least what i came to believe was their monotony, although i still
>enjoy 'soul on ice' very much.
hmmm. yeah.
>and possibly the wait, combind with the hype and then lack of doper
>material to back it up.
>
it was the hype more than anything that hurt him, plus making "anything goes"
his first single. in fact, all of ras' crossover attempts have failed. the only
way he'll be able to pull off a crossover, i think, is if he is on some more
platinum albums or is officially associated with someone platinum (say, if he
signs to aftermath and makes the "anything goes" LP...haha...with dre beats of
course).
Peace,
Spirit
www.theamphibians.com
"not to dis you or anything, but i really want you to die" - cyris
msg
Agoston" <rap...@teleport.net> wrote:
>exactly, but why even make the attempt. same with OC, AG,
>and anyone else that had the utmost street/underground-cred.
>is the money that intoxicating? it must be, because thats the
>only thing i can think of, why trade in repest and honor?
i'm sympathetic to ras's attempts. they just happen to
completely suck. the guy has a family to feed and it's not like
he's got a lot of money. for example, emcees like del are just
about broke, and i guarantee you that del has sold more records
than ras. even if ras were to 'blow up' for a respected
underground guy, how much would that translate into sales
without crossover appeal? 200K units? that's at best.
rap is a high turnover industry, these artists have got to get
their money now before they get completely dusted by a picky
industry and public. i know my pretensions to keepin it real
would be sorely tested if i were barely getting by as a dope but
broke emcee.
Steve 'Flash' Juon
edmundN...@csua.berkeley.edu.invalid says...
> for example, emcees like del are just
> about broke, and i guarantee you that del has sold more records
> than ras.
Yeah but Del's brokeness seems directly proportional to the amount
of money he spends on video games. Anybody who flies to Japan to
get the latest NeoGeo and Playstation 2 video games before they
come out in the U.S. is a HARDCORE gamer; and I have no reason to
take his word in "Proto Culture" literally because everytime there's
a video game tournament featuring rappers HE's there and in EVERY
interview he talks about his gaming. He has a hobby like all of
us do but his happens to cost $300 a system and $50 a game.
That shit adds up. I'm a cheap-ass. I wait for games to hit the
"million sales" mark and be added to the "greatest hits" lineup
because then they get marked down to $19.99
Peace, Flash
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Peter Agoston
> >failing out with western hemisfear thus the removal of the critically
> >acclaimed voodu! and mean green tracks (although some were still
> >left on the lp).
>
> this is NOT a factor. i just listened to the undergroiund version of "soul
on
> ice" (the one that never saw release) and frankly, the beats were not that
much
> better than the released version. and "etc" and "drama" were unchanged
> essentially. ditto for "on earth..." and "nature" seems basically the same
> (unless my ears fool me, someone stole my "soul on ice" [priority version]
CD,
> so i have to rely on memory).
i don't have my demo with me but shit like "capital RAS" and the other
songs where they rhyme together were pretty ill. "anything goes" was
originally something else, "for the love" maybe? it was over an esley bros.
beat though. most the the critical ones where left on "nature of the
threat",
"evil that men do" "on earth as it is.." (although that was done by bird).
we could just be nit picking at this time though.
> it was the hype more than anything that hurt him, plus making "anything
goes"
> his first single. in fact, all of ras' crossover attempts have failed. the
only
> way he'll be able to pull off a crossover, i think, is if he is on some
more
> platinum albums or is officially associated with someone platinum (say, if
he
> signs to aftermath and makes the "anything goes" LP...haha...with dre
beats of
> course).
he should of came in ill on the first single, like "sonset", "reelisym" or
even
the original "soul on ice". but hey. it's an interesting idea to think of
dre and
ras kass doing a whole album together, it would be dope in my opinion.
but i doubt the clubs would bang it, maybe the instrumentals. ras' voice is
just NOT club friendly although he so badly wants it to be.
someone made a reference to del being a broke emcee with respect which
could then mean ras is a paid emcee with no respect (except for from
jadakiss).
but i know del owns a crib and a car and has almost every single video game
ever made as well as studio equp. so how broke is that? thats fine, and on
top of still being respected by consumers and artists it's all good. he's
always
touring making guest spots here and there. ras is hardly in the game no
more.
i've never made a record for a major label but i think artists in ras'
position
just give up after a certain point. how can he NOT still be hungry if he
hasn't
even reapped the potential fruits of his labor? my only answer is that he
has
become startstruck. but if i was ras i wouldn't be sitting on my ass waiting
for
my label to do shit for me (again, i don't really know if that's the case).
i'd
be all up in everything. at least patchwerk put out "jack frost" ....
peace
wes
that shit would sell? That's the most frustrating thing to me,
that it wasn't even a good crossover record-it can be done. I
still have faith that ras is gonna come with it on his new album,
that so many days cut off the organized rhymes comp was mad nice
I thought.
wes
Mathew Chakko
>beatminerz prod. "oral sex", battlecat's old ass version was much
>liver than this. weak.
I thought the new one was real nice, it has me kind of excited about the new
album. How can you compare it to the old one anyway, they have nothing in
common except for the title...
About the 2 versions of soul on ice...I think that was just kind of treading
water, they took off some great songs like High IQ but some of the new songs
were among the best on the album themselves, like Sonset and Ordo Abchao.
I thought the beats on Soul on Ice were generally good, like Etc., Sonset,
Ordo Abchao were dope, others like On Earth... and Reelishymn were cool and
didn't get in the way of the lyrics, even if they weren't exciting.
Rasassination, I've said lots about it before, in hindsight it's just a joke,
those were some of the worst beats I've ever heard, like the one with Kurupt,
and H20Proof...the old Daz style of random bass sound production. God damn.
Other songs coulda been ok but just had minor flaws like a horrible hook that
ruined it. There was one great beat on the album, Ghetto Fabulous, but the
dumbed down lyrics made it not so great, but it's still listenable.
I remember when I first heard the first cut, I thought it was gonna be good if
it was all like the first song the title cut. But then he came with all these
Dogg Pound reject beats. A dope emcee and boring beats is cool to me, but
these beats were obnoxious and ruined things. The only song that did that on
Soul On Ice IMO was the title cut, that was a terrible beat. And maybe
Marinatin.
I like the fact that he's going to New York though, if he has a bunch of
half-assed to decent Beatminerz beats or something it ought to be decent.
Then again if he had had average Dre beats last time it'd be ok...if he had
the beats from Xzibit's last album, Rasassination would have been excellent.
With our luck we'll go in expecting Ras to be rhymin over some eerie RZA
tracks and some boom bap Primo...then lower our hopes when we hear some run of
the mill Easy Moe Bee type shit on the first track, then kill ourselves when
the rest of it is produced by Swizz Beats.
In summary, All Balls Don't Bounce, Soul On Ice, and Here to Save You All all
had excellent production IMO. Seriously.
"But Rassassination bumps in my car!!! Almost as good as Bass Homoerotica Vol
15!"
Rasassination is the name
You know I'm the shit like Mr. Hankey.
Oh yeah, Understandable Smooth was the jam but he used the exact same flow on
"Rassassination" I think it was, and the Music of Business had a weak ass beat
that rambled and went nowhere.
Mathew Chakko http://expert.cc.purdue.edu/~mchakko
mchakkodel...@bilbo.bio.purdue.edu.deletethistoo
Beatbox Director WLAY 90.1 FM, Purdue University
http://expert.cc.purdue.edu/~wlay - Shoutcast MP3 Stream now up *
"Midwessyde!" Thurs. 8:00-9:30 P.M. EST
Cussing out the atmosphere, with nobody close enough to hear...
AlanPage
>heard, he moved to N.Y.,
wait, wait, wait....
there's about 5-6 years b/t when i first heard ras spit that "platinum plaque"
line and when he moved to NY...obviously a lot has changed for Ras since 94-95.
and i think the line was "fuck a platinum plaque, i just want (dap and?) enough
dough to keep clothes on my baby's back".
well, once your album doesn't sell, you owe the record company, they
cross-collateralize, and you pray your second album sells better. well, his
second album didn't. hence the move to NYC and the hopes that maybe he can
break through there.
Peace,
Spirit
www.theamphibians.com
Go see "Love and Basketball". Dope movie, well written love story. Good date
flick.
AlanPage
>songs where they rhyme together were pretty ill
yeah, both versions of "take a deep breath" were pretty ill. as was "high iq"
and the original "oral sex". but a lot of the songs on the demo blatantly
sampled (i.e. didn't try to hide the sample) some pretty huge songs. i mean, he
didn't REALLY think sade would clear a sample, did he? hahah. well, strike one
for optimism.
>if i was ras i wouldn't be sitting on my ass waiting
>for
>my label to do shit for me (again, i don't really know if that's the case).
>i'd
>be all up in everything.
well, when you're on a major label, usually there's a clause in the contract
which requires you to get their approval before you do guest appearances, then
the label which pushes the product you appear on puts that friendly "rapper x
appears courtesy of plantation records" sentence in the liner notes. heck, you
thought that was done as a courtesy? major label world really does have
parallels to slavery.
"well, boy, we're thinking of renting you out to the time warner plantation"
ha....
Da5Venoms
>didn't REALLY think sade would clear a sample, did he? hahah. well, strike
>one
>for optimism.
Didn't Sade let Cru sample her on Dirty 30?
Da 5th Venom
DaSoloIst
that caught Chuck D's people's ear and maybe we'll be doing the song mentioned
soon. It's from a joint I wrote and dedicated to Pac and Biggie the night
Biggie caught it and critical of everyone who fucked up HIP_HOP. It's called
"Dearly Beloved." BTW my name is SOLO aka Tha' Truf Tella...
Verse Two:
Some of these so-called Hot stations, forgot what they bestowed upon the
nation,
Suburban wet dream fascination, Urban manhood the destination,
The desecration, bull-defecating, seems like constantly death we facing, Got us
tryin ta stay afloat, not rock the boat like sea-bound Haitians,
I felt out of place when, the Thugs, the slugs, subjugated the cypher,
So I laid low in the cut, mellowed with age, now I'm riper,
Hyper-Textually linked, my peers flatlined in a blink,
Am I paranoid to think, the whole games in desperate need of a shrink?
Don't wanna sink to new levels, know the plan of whom some call Devils,
Secret Societies, Spare parts for bodies, increasin the sale of shovels,
I stay a rebel, Chuck:'Shut'em Down Part Two" whenever ya ready,
Fuck the Fetti, just wanna rock like steady, Rob Base, or Slash wit Teddy,
My bedsheet's sweaty, Nightmares, disturbed R.E.M.s be schizo, my mind plays
tricks tho,
Lobes left right, reunite like that squad that hits yo,
Any day could be your last, I know there's more to life than nuggets,
So this one's dedicated to my dearly beloved....
Peop the last PE joint( 'Crayola', shit the whole damn thing), or Dead Prez to
know every one ain't stupid with that Love that KRS said was gonna get some of
us.
My new joint is coming out this summer on IN DA' HOUSE MUSIQUE NEW Y'AWK. It's
called:
"Cill Cill Kill, Murda, Murder, Redrum, How I slapped tha ho, Fucked the
bitch, Bounced at the titty bar, Got high and To' Down on my way to the
JeewwlRRee Sto!"
That's just one track, the name of the single. It's not mentioned in the
song, but the chorus is a lil somthing like
"Does anybody give a fuck or is it just about bucks,
If I don't bling, bling am I really outta luck,
Will all the true mcs please throw yo' mikes up,
And all ya crab A&Rs can suck on Deeeez Nuttzz(Snoop Dogg style).."
The shit's hillarious but serious too...anyway, just my two cents about the
game...and I'm not a mad rapper, I was born rich. I just hate the pimpin of
our art...OneL