Last night's Eminem show.
Donnie Kwak
"freestlyles" last night. "Girls, women, and bitches." A pale, pasty
white kid, looking like an extra from a 90210 club scene, spitting
offensively inane lyrics for shock value, calling them punchlines. And
this is the future of hip-hop.
To parapharse onelove columnist k. orr, "I was one of a handful of
colored faces in a sea of ivory." The event? An Eminem show, for all
ages, at a medium-sized venue called Tramp's on 21st Street. The place
was crowded. Hordes of white kids, I mean armies, legions, clans ... I
was blinded with whiteness every time I turned my head to survey the
room.
I was determined to come see this show. None of my friends would come
with me. The bill featured all independent/"underground" acts, which
always translates into a lot of sloppiness on stage, a lot of waiting
around, and a lot of young white kids. So I went dolo, mostly to see if
this kid Eminem is worth half the hype, if he could move the crowd,
maintain his breath control, etc. So this is how it went down:
M.F. Doom performed first, and m'fcka probably has the worst live show
of any signed act I've ever seen. Before he got on, he insisted that
the spotlight man turn the lights down, so all anybody could see during
his set was a bunch of shadows stomping around the stage. Doom's was
the quintessential wack show, from the drunkenly-slurred,
haphazardly-delivered rhymes to the 15 hangers-on he brought with him
onstage. I guess his shit is best for the crib, not for a live
audience. I have the "Dead Bent" 12-inch, and I feel it, but the shit
just didn't come off live. "Hey" came off alright, but the other four
or so cuts he performed barely illicited the feeblest of head nods.
After Doom's set, Bobbito, the show's host, said that the album is due
March 99.
Outsidaz, repping Brick City, came next. The show picked up
considerably. Young Zee was mad vocal, the loudest Outsida, and the
crew is deep ... eight heads, I think. Zee set it off with his verse
from Redman's new album over the "Who Shot Ya" beat. Then, the Outsidas
performed a couple of their own cuts, before Pacewon stormed onstage to
do his singles. Pacewon looks like a taller Phesto, and he has a lot of
energy, which was felt and returned by the audience. "I Declare War" is
that shit.
Finally, Eminem was due to perform. At this point, it's about half past
midnight. I had seen maybe thirty minutes of live performance, and over
an hour of nothing. The white kids were antsy as hell, and I was
feeling pretty impatient myself. So the Outsidaz finish their set,
and Young Zee starts to introduce Eminem from the back corner of the
stage as the rest of the crew exits. "Who wants to see Eminem," he
yells, and the loudest roar of the night is heard throughout the room.
I think Young Zee took this a bit personally, the fact that the
melanin-deficient crowd was so anxious to shoo the Outsidaz the fuck off
the stage in favor of the youngblood. So Zee says, "Who wants to see
the white boy?" And the crowd roars again. Then Zee says, "`Cause
niggas ain't fuckin' with the white boy..." Smatterings of nervous
laughter. I hear the gruffy-looking guy next to me say "Fuck you" real
quietly, like a dude that talks shit loud enough to be heard by his crew
but not his enemy. Then Zee, mocking Em's weaselly voice, starts
rapping: "Sliiim Shaady, Brain dead like Jim Brady...," before he says
"Fuck it," and breaks up laughing. For a minute, I felt like there
might be some drama.
Em's chubby deejay cames on and plays a novelty record of an academic
breaking down usage of the word "fuck." Then Eminem, clad in a white
tee-shirt, and his boy Royce took the stage and started doing some joint
I'd never heard. It was amazing, though. All around me, kids were
singing along word-for-word, like it's Rakim or something. And this is
for every single cut, even for some of Em's "freestyles." He will be a
superstar, sales-wise, that is clear.
As for Eminem's live set, I'll give him this: he has breath control, he
can rhyme, his voice is definitely unique. But, of course, that could
be said about 9 out of 10 cats with record deals. Hip-hop fans are used
to seeing performers bitch about the sound quality, and it's tiresome,
but for once, I actually wanted an artist to complain to the soundman.
The beats were too low, and Em's mic too loud. The one joint of his
that I definitely like, the new one w/ Royce on Stretch's label, came
out super lukewarm because the beat sounded like AM radio. Eminem kept
complaining that the crowd wasn't jumping enough, but audiences respond
better to thunderous bass than shouted slurs. Eminem ended up
performing about six cuts, including his verse from Shabaam Sadeeq's
track, the "My Name Is..." joint, and, of course, the lead single. He
and Royce each did two acapella rhymes, and both proved equally
offensive. Royce resembles Master P in appearance (hat, shades, gold
chain), and his subject matter is patterned after Em's: misogynstic,
super-violent, and disrespectful.
Now during Em's set, the rest of the Outsidaz were on the back corner of
the stage, and some of them were singing along to his bigger hits. But
Zee never left the stage, never dropped his mic, and I could just tell
from homeboy's body language that he was trying to steal Eminem's
shine. I kept praying that he would try to P.M. Dawn him, or herb him
or clown him someway, but it never happened. It could have been a major
blow to Em's credibility if he had been embarassed onstage, but Zee
wouldn't do it. Throughout his set, Em kept saying, "We can rhyme all
night," but he only performed for about twenty or so minutes. As he
rapped the last song of the night, "I just don't give a fuck," all the
Outsidaz and some people in the crowd leapt on stage, and Eminem was
lost in a swarm of bodies. At one point, Zee crept up behind Eminem,
pulled his shirt up and pulled it over his head, Cornholio-style. That
was the closet he came to herbing him, but he could have done so much
more. The show ended, and the crowd dispersed.
So what was learned? Nothing that I couldn't have guessed. Em is an
average MC that is now full-blown because of the rich fourteen-year-old
white boys that are his target audience. I mean white kids loved Geto
Boys and N.W.A. and all the other dark inner city groups, but let's be
real, to these kids, they're still a bunch of negros at the end of the
day. Eminem, yo .. they couldn't scientifically create a rapper that's
a better spokesman for white boy angst. Watching the white kids
gravitate to him onstage was ceratinly revealing. This kid says "nigga"
onstage before a live audience, jokes about Tupac's death, and 80% of
his lines are violently anti-women. And the crowd ate it all up. Em
will have his day, though, and soon. Zee didn't do it, but somebody
will. Eminem better watch himself, because his fame is definitely
irking people.
I'm at the train station on 23rd Street, and three white teenagers,
North-Faced-up, are standing on the platform. "Did you see his
tattoo?" "Yea, he has that cool tattoo on his forearm." "Yea, that
shit is tight." I'm thinking to myself, damn, this is the future of
hip-hop.
Steve 'Flash' Juon
says...
> I'm at the train station on 23rd Street, and three white teenagers,
> North-Faced-up, are standing on the platform. "Did you see his
> tattoo?" "Yea, he has that cool tattoo on his forearm." "Yea, that
> shit is tight." I'm thinking to myself, damn, this is the future of
> hip-hop.
I have to say it: I may like him on wax, but you've just made me NEVER
want to see him live in concert. That shit sounds worse than Smoking
Grooves. Fuck that. Unless Eminem was on a tour that could draw a large
black crowd; which given what you're saying is not gonna happen, I doubt
there'd even be half enough of hype reason to go. Eminem alone isn't.
And forgive me for saying this about my peoples, but white motherfuckers
kill a hip-hop audience. I've seen the all white crowd and I've seen the
all black crowd and I can guarantee you which one is hype and which one
epitomized the Donnie H. Kwak experience.
--
"Look out the window golly the sky is electric blue..." --> Andre B.
"Sony or Aiwa, black or white, I fit in all stereotypes" --> Wordsworth
Steve 'Flash' Juon --> contact dj.f...@pobox.com for e-mail
Hip-Hop Lyrics Archive --> http://www.OHHLA.com/index.htm
Suite 101's Hip-Hop --> http://suite101.com/welcome.cfm/116
Donnie Kwak
> >or clown him someway, but it never happened.
>
Well, understand this .. I was extremely bitter at having stood around
for two hours to see an extremely half-ass performance. So I wanted to
see some drama, plain and simple. And it's not because Em is white. If
it were El-P, or Cage, or Non-Phixion, I wouldn't have had those
thoughts. But Em had spent his entire set spitting rhyme after rhyme
about his craziness, his violent tendencies, his sexual prowess ... it
would have been dope to see somebody step up and challenge him. Not
necessarily physically, but at least engage him in some sort of
confrontation. I read the piece on him in VIBE, and the interviewer
wrote about how touchy Em is about the "white" issue. He's on that
Canibus vibe. "The only reason people want to talk to me is because of
the LL dis, but I don't want to talk about it." Yet, later on in that
VIBE piece, Em jumps to talk about hating women. "This is something I
can talk about." I just wish Zee would have battled him.
Wise Rebel
Donnie Kwak writes:
>I kept praying that he would try to P.M. Dawn him, or herb him
>or clown him someway, but it never happened.
Why would you want that?
Wise
Pushermat1
for his britches. He's getting too big for his britches and is getting his head
gassed up so big that he just may fuck up his career before it even starts. He
has a good chance, but I think he had a better chance even two months ago when
there was more of a mystery to him.
If he's the spokesman for mouthy white boys who love hip hop then so be it. To
be honest, that was one of the things I respected about him when I first heard
Slim Shady. He's the quintessential white boy fuck up who loves hip hop but
really doesn't give a fuck about all of the bullshit that is attached to it. He
seemed like the type who really didn't give a fuck about being respected or
anything like that, he just is what he is. It's like he knew that most of the
closed minded people would try and clown him right off the bat so he said fuck
it and went for his anyway in the direction he felt fit.
BUT, he's starting to fuck up. He's starting to say the same rhymes over and
over, he's starting to piss off the people who first felt him and first pegged
him at the very least as interesting. I like that kid, but he's falling off
already before even coming out. Too many mediocre guest appearances, repeated
written freestyles and the like. Besides, no white rapper has blown up within
hip hop without first appealing to the black crowd.
Seriously, the first time I saw House of Pain (and the Beastie Boys for that
matter)the entire crowd was black and they got major love. Then as soon as they
saw the opportunity to get the alternative money, they took it. They took the
alternative tours, did rock mixes and milked that scene for everything they
could. I mean honestly, the playas and ballas out there are 'nt buying $25
t-shirts and $20 ski hats or fucking $3 sitckers even. however, put that same
group on tour with Rage or some shit and they are gonna rack up on merch sales
alone.
If Eminem doesn't come out real, he's not gonna last. He's gonna end up on some
Insane Clown Posse type shit. Those cats went platinum after years and years of
hard work, and honeslty, I think ICP makes the WoRST music ever created. i
mean, there has never been a group worse than them to me, but I'll give it up
to them on a business level. before they were ever signed, they were puling in
3,000 kids over the course of a weekend to clubs in Detroit, selling mad
shirts, hats, stickers, posters, cd's tapes, what have you and those cats were
rolling in independent money. I know this because I worked with a rock band who
shared the same manager as ICP and when they were doing their deal with Jive
this manager showed me some figures on these cats.
ICP sold 100,000 copies of their final independent cd themselves. The soundscan
showed most of those sales coming from Detroit a lone! Seriously, those fucking
humps had their business together. But as a novelty act, they will not last
much longer. Maybe as wrestlers, not as artists.
It looked like Eminem was on the right track when he released the Slim Shady EP
and put it in stores as well as using it as a demo to get signed, but he let
Aftermath pull it off the shelves too quick when he got signed. Way before he
was able to garner the true street following that he needed to establish to
acheive longevity and the like.
The kid has already done a song with Marilyn Manson. If this track comes out
before he blows up as a rapper he's finished. It's happened before and it'll
happen again. To be honest, i like Eminem and look forward to someday seeing
him perform, however, what I'm not looking forward to is the impending
onslaught of white rappers that we are going to have to endure after he comes
out. Every shit head at every label is gonna pull out the white boy he's had on
reserve in '99 in hopes of catching some of Eminems heat. Remedy will finally
come out the Wu. A whole bunch of these fools will get deals and be out with
mediocre records. NY and Cali have a gang of wack ass no voice no flow havin
white boys on their indie scenes just itching to blow up. I think it's all gona
blow up in their faces though.
If they do succeed, I think it'll trigger an even deeper seperation of the
races.
Now, don't get me wrong, there are a couple of white boys who I'm dying to hear
from. 3rd Bass is about to come back with production from Organized Noize and
all that. I'm not at all afraid to hear this record as Serch and Pete put it
the fuck down and I have a feeling that they can do it again. Solo, no,
together, I think they have a good chance. They took enough of a step back to
look at themselves, their careers and the state of hip hop that they just may
come out with some bomb ass shit. Maybe I'm just wishful thinking, but I have a
feeling that that shit just may be tight.
And maybe Serch will sit on Eminem for being a skinny white boy who has the
audacity to say nigga. I would take his mic and smack him if I heard him say
the word nigga to a crowd of white folk. Thats some seriously backwards shit.
As far as the Outsidaz go, they are down with Eminem. From what I heard Eminem
was a part of their clique. There may have been a little tension there due to
jealousy or whatever, but I'm sure they'll use Eminem and their Fugees
affiliations wisely to their advantage and blow the fuck up at some point. They
deserve it.
Enjoy Eminem while you can.
PEAVE
pusherman matt stonedalla
ZSTAR73982
think you wouldn't have the tanacity to say this to his face so you should curl
into a little ball and shut up...Oh yeah will everyone get over Eminem being
white already...thank you.
Jinsu-Represent hiph hop to the fullest
Sean Flynn
<donni...@earthlink.net> wrote:
Hehe...Some people may want to take notes on the events of that night.
A sign of things to come???
Sean.
---
Sean Flynn sfl...@pobox.com
http://pobox.com/~sflynn/hiphop.html
Not an Ottawa U Computer Engineering Student Anymore
SCapitanPL
don't feel like touching on it right now...
"Procrastination's like masturbation: you're fucking yourself"- Xzibit
Ultimate Dogg Pound Page (updated)
<http://members.tripod.com/~DonTeflon/DoggPound.html>
Greatest Hip Hop Beefs (revamp coming)
<http://members.tripod.com/~DonTeflon/BizBeef.html>
Fee
>the all white crowd and I've seen the all black crowd and I
You don't realize how ignorant you look when you stereotype
like this. Sorry for getting PC on you and all but, jesus, your
totaly generalizing here.
Peace,
Fee
Steve 'Flash' Juon
scapi...@aol.com says...
> A little too much racist shit was in this story (from Donnie himself) but I
> don't feel like touching on it right now...
What's racist in admitting that shows where the whole audience is white
is wack? I'm white and I'll say it: wack, wack, wack. I'm not claiming
I represent any better than the next man, but at least I know what's
stupid when I see it. Too many white people who think they know what
hip-hop is trying to outcool each other leads to massive stupidity.
Most of these white patrons have never mastered the art of the cool that
their peers in hip-hop already know from years of sneaking out to shows
and hanging at the clubs. Too busy trying to show out or speak slang
instead of enjoying the acts and feeling the vibe. And Donnie is right:
if the future of hip-hop is to make it all white, I don't want it. Maybe
Eminem needs to get herbed just to serve notice that white wackness can't
bumrush hip-hop and replace the original authentic. Eminem is better
than most but he's getting overhyped and he's drawing the wrong crowd and
the kind of momentum it generates is unhealthy and not good for hip-hop.
If the show is anything as wack as what Donnie said, he should have been
herbed in a major way.
Steve 'Flash' Juon
says...
So? I know it's generalizing and I know it's a stereotype but it's also
born out by ACTUAL EXPERIENCE. Every show I've been to that was more
than 50% white audience had the most lethargic and uninspired energy by
both the performers and the crowd. Every show I've been to that was more
than 50% black had an amped up stage performance and plenty of bouncing
around and participation by the crowd. If it's a stereotype so be it,
but in my case it's proved to be the god damned truth. :>
DJ FonkyFresh
Fee wrote:
> Steve 'Flash' Juon <dj.f...@pobox.com> wrote
> >white motherfuckers kill a hip-hop audience. I've seen
> >the all white crowd and I've seen the all black crowd and I
> >can guarantee you which one is hype.
>
> You don't realize how ignorant you look when you stereotype
> like this. Sorry for getting PC on you and all but, jesus, your
> totaly generalizing here.
>
I agree, I've been to some all white shows and they were the best thing
I've ever seen in my life!
--
-always Fonky Fresh
Atkins32
problem in the hip-hop games is that niggas are hatin because it's the white
artists representin the love and it's the black artist poppin crist and each
other.....look around at the so called top artists ...DMX...Jay-Z....Master
P.....wack all of um....but brothers of another color are bringin that love of
hip -hop back.....Mountain Brothers....Siah and Yeshua....7l and
Estoric...Em.....Sole......Sure Em's show might have been wack...but there is
no denying it Em has more skillz on the mic then half of the mfuckas with major
label lp's on the shelf.....To me Donny might be fearin Em cause he see's his
brothers slippin and he sees the white mc maintainin this shit......As i reread
your post i get mad as fuck.....Zee would never step to Em cause Em put him
on...ever since his ep em's been reppin the outsidaz...Zee knows his place u
don't bite the hand that puts you on....next time you go to a show bruh ...see
it for what it is Hip-Hop..not if the crowd is all white or black or if the MC
is white or black....And they wonder why racism still exists...
kenn...@email.com
Yeshua is black.
*** Posted from RemarQ - http://www.remarq.com - Discussions Start Here (tm) ***
Donnie Kwak
> .but brothers of another color are bringin that love of
> hip -hop back.....Mountain Brothers....Siah and Yeshua....7l and
> Estoric...Em.....Sole......
You can't throw Em in this group. Just because the aforementioned feature
non-black performers don't make them all alike. Non-black performers don't stand
together as one group against black performers. Eminem and Mountain Brothers rhyme
over beats, but that's about the only thing the two acts have in common.
> ..Zee would never step to Em cause Em put him
> on...ever since his ep em's been reppin the outsidaz...Zee knows his place u
> don't bite the hand that puts you on....
Em put Zee on? Yea, they might have some symbiotic ties, but c'mon, now. I feel
like Zee's paid dues, from the "You don't want no problems" joint to the Fugees
alubm, to Redman's last one, and he's still not bubblin' like he should be. Em is
out for what, two minutes, and he's already full-blown. (Dre is a shrewd-ass
business man, you all know that, and he knows a money artist when he sees one.) Em
may be doing a little to help the Outsidaz, but it's like when your snot-nosed
little brother blows up and tries to put you on, you never relinquish the right to
slap him around if he steps out of line. Watching Zee's behavior that night, I
just could sense that he wasn't feeling Em. So who knows, I don't know the cat,
it's just my observation.
> next time you go to a show bruh ...see
> it for what it is Hip-Hop..not if the crowd is all white or black or if the MC
> is white or black....And they wonder why racism still exists...
Trust me, son, that's never my goal when I go to a show. It's really just the
first time I've been to a show that was that homogenous, one way or another, and I
was taken aback.
Pushermat1
be making some observations. To me, Eminem is mad visual and should be able to
come up with a unique show. I'm sure he can because judging from is lyrics and
nothig else, he's an extremely creative indivdual, but it sounds like hes
fucking up. Fucking up too early on in his career and somebody like Dre, a
friend or a fan should say something to him and let him know that he can go
either way, all the way or down the tubes.
I'm extremely curious to see what happens with him. He's got a major chance,
and has put in mad work thus far, but he needs to watch it. Thats all I'm
saying. He needs to be a bit more calculating and stay exciting. I don't know
the cat or anything, I'm just saying all this strictly as an outside observer
who has seen simlar situations from the outside looking in. Personally, I hope
he makes it. probably will, but he bet not run around saying nigga on stage,
somebody's gonna take that real wrong unless Dre is standing directly beind him
or some shit.
BTW my boy worked on his video for "Hi My Name Is..." or whatever it's called
and said he has George Mieresant in the video and he's holding Eminem like a
ventriliquist dummy. He says the video is bugged out.
My boy wanted to make a video where George Mieresant played Stretch and Cheech
played Bobitto, which I think would have been funnier. Now that would have been
comedy.
PEACE
pusherman matt stonedalla
BSE
>
> In article <3699257B...@earthlink.net>, donni...@earthlink.net
> says...
> > North-Faced-up, are standing on the platform. "Did you see his
> > tattoo?" "Yea, he has that cool tattoo on his forearm." "Yea, that
> > shit is tight." I'm thinking to myself, damn, this is the future of
> > hip-hop.
>
> want to see him live in concert. That shit sounds worse than Smoking
> Grooves. Fuck that. Unless Eminem was on a tour that could draw a large
> black crowd; which given what you're saying is not gonna happen, I doubt
> there'd even be half enough of hype reason to go. Eminem alone isn't.
> kill a hip-hop audience. I've seen the all white crowd and I've seen the
> epitomized the Donnie H. Kwak experience.
:) funny shit.
Ive never been to a show like that. The only shows where there are heavy
numbers of white people there are also white girls, lots of them. I dont
think white girls would go to Eminem concerts, they are genreally
smarter than white boys :)
Wise wrote somethign like:
>Why would you want someone to Herb him?
Id fuck him up if he realy means all that anti women shit, and if he
says nigga all the time on stage i know a lot of people who would fuck
him up.
Dissliking eminem can not be put down to "no whites in hip hop" its more
like "enough of the over the top dickheadness".
And surely someone should beat him up for being a cross between Adrock
and the Chipmunks?
BSE
----BSE----------------------------------------
"I love hip-hop.
Just so happens a lot of people who get
called "hip-hop" don't love it that much" - Spirit68
__________________BSE hip hop__________________
_____________ http://www.bseuk.com ____________
WegnerWils
>
>Id fuck him up if he realy means all that anti women shit,
right....
and if he
>says nigga all the time on stage i know a lot of people who would fuck
>him up.
right....
>Dissliking eminem can not be put down to "no whites in hip hop" its more
>like "enough of the over the top dickheadness".
exactly!...i'm gonna rape this bitch and that bitch...blah blah blah....lame!
>And surely someone should beat him up for >being a cross between Adrock
>and the Chipmunks?
now thats sum funny shit.....
boy, the trenches be rough,
ive looked side to side
and i dont recall seein you at all........
chuck d/ public enemy
ba...@home.com
kenn...@email.com wrote:
>
> Yeshua is black.
Nope, I believe he's Colombian. He responded to a question or a comment
about his race to the editor of a magazine I was writing for. Maybe your
message will even get a response from Yeshua himself.
One Love,
Terry Malko
'A rich man is one with knowledge, happiness and his health'
--Com
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Pushermat1
by any chance? I'm wondering, I'd like to read some other folks observations
from the show.
PEACE
pusherman matt stonedalla
= k O e N s =
Steve 'Flash' Juon <dj.flas...@pobox.com> wrote in article
Eminem alone isn't.
> And forgive me for saying this about my peoples, but white motherfuckers
> kill a hip-hop audience.
no, no, no! try hard motherfuckers kill shows, true b-boys of any colour
represent real hip hop...........
I've seen the all white crowd and I've seen the
> all black crowd and I can guarantee you which one is hype and which one
> epitomized the Donnie H. Kwak experience.
and I can tell you a mixed crowd of all races and creeds, that is totally
into the music is the hypest crowd of all!
--
=kOeNs=
"I'ma addict for sneakers, twenties of buddah and bitches with beepers..."
--- NAS
Kingpin97
if the future of hip-hop is to make it all white, I don't want it.>>>
Imagine saying that about any other race. Imagine a person of another race
saying that about their race!!!! Lol, morons like you make me sick.
Akiem Allah
BSE wrote:
>
> Steve 'Flash' Juon wrote:
> >
> > In article <3699257B...@earthlink.net>, donni...@earthlink.net
> > says...
> > > I'm at the train station on 23rd Street, and three white teenagers,
> > > North-Faced-up, are standing on the platform. "Did you see his
> > > tattoo?" "Yea, he has that cool tattoo on his forearm." "Yea, that
> > > shit is tight." I'm thinking to myself, damn, this is the future of
> > > hip-hop.
> >
> > I have to say it: I may like him on wax, but you've just made me NEVER
> > want to see him live in concert. That shit sounds worse than Smoking
> > Grooves. Fuck that. Unless Eminem was on a tour that could draw a large
> > black crowd; which given what you're saying is not gonna happen, I doubt
> > there'd even be half enough of hype reason to go. Eminem alone isn't.
> > And forgive me for saying this about my peoples, but white motherfuckers
> > kill a hip-hop audience. I've seen the all white crowd and I've seen the
> > all black crowd and I can guarantee you which one is hype and which one
> > epitomized the Donnie H. Kwak experience.
>
> :) funny shit.
>
> Ive never been to a show like that. The only shows where there are heavy
> numbers of white people there are also white girls, lots of them. I dont
> think white girls would go to Eminem concerts, they are genreally
> smarter than white boys :)
>
> Wise wrote somethign like:
>
> >Why would you want someone to Herb him?
>
> Id fuck him up if he realy means all that anti women shit, and if he
> says nigga all the time on stage i know a lot of people who would fuck
> him up.
>
> Dissliking eminem can not be put down to "no whites in hip hop" its more
> like "enough of the over the top dickheadness".
>
> And surely someone should beat him up for being a cross between Adrock
> and the Chipmunks?
>
> BSE
>
> ----BSE----------------------------------------
>
> "I love hip-hop.
> Just so happens a lot of people who get
> called "hip-hop" don't love it that much" - Spirit68
> __________________BSE hip hop__________________
> _____________ http://www.bseuk.com ____________
--
"Traveling the Universe is hard work"
----***'
/\ |
| mailto:7...@micranots.com
\|/ http://www.micranots.com
AKIEM ALLAH--*)7--ELISRA http://www.micranots.com
/|\ http://www.micranots.com
| http://www.micranots.com
U.V.S.- M I C R A N O T S - B L A C K L O T U S
Akiem Allah
> > >the all white crowd and I've seen the all black crowd and I
> >
> > You don't realize how ignorant you look when you stereotype
> > like this. Sorry for getting PC on you and all but, jesus, your
> > totaly generalizing here.
> >
>
> I agree, I've been to some all white shows and they were the best thing
> I've ever seen in my life!
>
> --
> -always Fonky Fresh
Raves dont count dumb ass
Mike Burke
>
>I agree, I've been to some all white shows and they were the best thing
>I've ever seen in my life!
>
I bet those hoods get really hot after a while though, huh?
--
"As hard as it is to be perfect, I try"
T-Mo
Mike Burke
Christopher Gray
jason dexter graham
i do! black people should be banned from hip hop!
eminem forever!
black hip hoppers never!
(except for dr dre cause eminem is gonna be on his new record!)
ps. no but seriously my boy, who never goes to hip hop shows (ca ya blame
him they almost always suck) went to that show and he is WHITE! WHOA!
pps. yeah eminem is in my sig but it's cause i skate so it's, you know,
appropriate...man...i skate with 'skam' sometimes, am i cool or what!!!!!
peace...stay up
JDG
"i came in the diner with skateboarders
and placed orders
ate hors d'oevres
and hit the waiter with platewarmers"
jason dexter graham
i know, like one time i went to a billy joel show and it was wack
cause most of the people in the audience were jews
JDG
"i came in the diner with skateboarders
and placed orders
ate hors d'oevres
and hit the waiter with platewarmers"
On Mon, 11 Jan 1999, Steve 'Flash' Juon wrote:
> In article <01be3d85$8d24daa0$6500a8c0@fee>, 8afN...@qlink.queensu.ca
> says...
> > Steve 'Flash' Juon <dj.f...@pobox.com> wrote
> > >white motherfuckers kill a hip-hop audience. I've seen
> > >the all white crowd and I've seen the all black crowd and I
> > >can guarantee you which one is hype.
> >
> > You don't realize how ignorant you look when you stereotype
> > like this. Sorry for getting PC on you and all but, jesus, your
> > totaly generalizing here.
>
Christopher Gray
X jiga x
generalizing and I know it's a stereotype but it's also
>born out by ACTUAL EXPERIENCE. Every show I've been to that was more
>than 50% white audience had the most lethargic and uninspired energy by
>both the performers and the crowd. Every show I've been to that was more
>than 50% black had an amped up stage performance and plenty of bouncing
>around and participation by the crowd. If it's a stereotype so be it,
>but in my case it's proved to be the god damned truth. :>
>
someone gets robbed its usually by a black person
I have also noticed that everytime my hubcaps get robbed, a Peurto Rican did it
I know this is generalizing, but its the god damn truth
"Swingin' through, is your friendly neighborhood lush"
Xzibit
or...@weiss.che.utexas.edu
Donnie Kwak <donni...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> To parapharse onelove columnist k. orr, "I was one of a handful of
> colored faces in a sea of ivory." The event?
And just to bring this one incident into light, I was at
Freestyle Fellowship show when I said that. I reposted the
original to Davey D's website, and the pro-white hip hop
head backlash to this article was much more.
> I was determined to come see this show. None of my friends would come
> with me.
Again, I understand your hunger. I would probably go check
it out, and I only like one of Em's songs. (But then again,
I do sit through a lot of wack shows to hear my jam).
Why wouldn't your friends go?
Why were you so determined?
At Davey's site, the reaction was that you were going to
the show with your mind already made up.
The bill featured all independent/"underground" acts, which
> always translates into a lot of sloppiness on stage, a lot of waiting
> around, and a lot of young white kids.
No Doubt.
> So Zee says, "Who wants to see
> the white boy?" And the crowd roars again. Then Zee says, "`Cause
> niggas ain't fuckin' with the white boy..." Smatterings of nervous
> laughter.
Isn't M&M down with the Outsidaz?
> Em's chubby deejay cames on and plays a novelty record of an academic
> breaking down usage of the word "fuck." Then Eminem, clad in a white
> tee-shirt, and his boy Royce took the stage and started doing some joint
> I'd never heard. It was amazing, though. All around me, kids were
> singing along word-for-word, like it's Rakim or something. And this is
> for every single cut, even for some of Em's "freestyles." He will be a
> superstar, sales-wise, that is clear.
Am I the only one bothered by the fanaticism that this implies?
> So what was learned? Nothing that I couldn't have guessed.
> Eminem, yo .. they couldn't scientifically create a rapper that's
> a better spokesman for white boy angst.
What makes him that much better (as the poster boy) than El-P?
Is it the shock raps?
> I'm at the train station on 23rd Street, and three white teenagers,
> North-Faced-up, are standing on the platform. "Did you see his
> tattoo?" "Yea, he has that cool tattoo on his forearm." "Yea, that
> shit is tight." I'm thinking to myself, damn, this is the future of
> hip-hop.
I thought I was the only who got this.
Could you break it down.
peace
k. orr
Richard D. Allen
fucking with him for fun? I mean, if you have a popular friend in high
school or something, you may give him shit about it but you don't hate
him, you just hate the undeserved attention he gets.
Although, given that they're part of the same crew, it would have
been interesting to see something jump off between them just to see how
the rest of the Outsidaz would have handled the matter.
Anyway, that was a good review, I can see exactly where you're
coming from, although you seem to be itching to blame Eminem for having
meathead fans. I mean, you keep calling him pale and pasty. He's white -
should he lay out on the beach in a thong? Anyway, you hit the nail on the
head when you said Eminem taps into white boy angst, although angst isn't
really the word for it. There's a specific desire to shock, crossed with a
specific sick sense of humor, present in Eminem's music that is very
emblematic of the bored white rebellious teen experience. I'm sure there
are some heads on here who don't really like, say, Juvenile, but being
from N.O. or the South in general they feel him on things that he says.
I'm in the position of not really being a huge fan of Eminem, but I
find myself feeling him and his sense of humor because it's aimed right at
me and my background. This is why the North Face crew is babbling about
his tattoo - they probably feel somehow gratified that Eminem is
"speaking" to them.
Anyway, you're right, he'll be big. I'm not sure I care. But I was
surprised to see that in Spin they said he was from the "ghettos" of
Detroit. I always thought he was from the suburbs, and I think he's got to
at least keep it real and admit that. Look what happened to our boy Robby
van Winkle...
--
Richard Allen
aug...@email.unc.edu
Christopher Gray
STRATEGY3
>DJ FonkyFresh wrote:
>> I agree, I've been to some all white shows and they were the best thing
>> I've ever seen in my life!
Look, Streisand's good okay, but let's not get carried away..............
STRATEGY
wta...@midway.uchicago.edu
Akiem Allah <"-NOSPAM- akiem7"@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> DJ FonkyFresh wrote:
> >
> > I agree, I've been to some all white shows and they were the best thing
> > I've ever seen in my life!
> >
> > -always Fonky Fresh
>
> Raves dont count dumb ass
>
hee hee
damn akiem, you were slumping for a minute, but you're killing it again
lately. i guess just need some morons in this group to raise your ire and get
the funny bone working again.
...nesta...
____________________________________________________
Most of you can't understand what I am saying to you
Even in my human form the message I'm relaying
One good thing about music
When it hits you feel no pain
_____________________________________________________
Alexander Carlton
: What's racist in admitting that shows where the whole audience is white
: is wack? I'm white and I'll say it: wack, wack, wack.
Not always correct Flash. I went to a show in Santa Cruz, almost all the
heads were white, yet represented like no tomorrow. There was b-boys, a
couple of Freestylers (I was considering taking on this white cat who
called himself Top Ramen, mainly cuz I could dis his name twenty ways
until tomorrow). It was live. Goodie Mob / Parental Advisory /
Witchdoctor...
: stupid when I see it. Too many white people who think they know what
: hip-hop is trying to outcool each other leads to massive stupidity.
I'll quote the living legends here:
"What are you too tough to have fun? Frisked at the door so I know it's
not the gun in your waistline that got you shooting daggers at my face
when I rhyme...."
Alex Carlton
Advocates International
"I'm Slick like Exxon, Better in a Car than Techron"
(c)1999, Advocates International
All Rights Reversed.
Von tripps
>than 50% white audience had the most lethargic and uninspired energy by
>both the performers and the crowd. Every show I've been to that was more
>than 50% black had an amped up stage performance and plenty of bouncing
>around and participation by the crowd. If it's a stereotype so be it,
>but in my case it's proved to be the god damned truth. :>
>
>
I don't know what or where you go for shows. But I as Black Male American have
been to rock, rap , ska, hardcore, even country. And I will disagree with you.
Plenty of rock shows I've been to have been more jumping than some rap shows.
Sometimes it depends on the venue or the crowd or the artists. But I have
never seen race play a part. Sometimes the show, the music, or the crowd
(regardless of race) just sucks. Some of the best shows (as far as the crowd
goes) have been ska shows with a mostly white crowd. So can I make the
arguement that White crowds are better?
Von Tripps
Steve 'Flash' Juon
vont...@aol.com says...
> So can I make the arguement that White crowds are better?
Sure. That's your experience. Donnie was talking about his, I'm talking
about mine, you talk about yours. There's no reason for us to have all
had the same experience. And for the record, the wackest concert I ever
went to was Smashing Pumpkins. I got in FREE and I still wanted my money
back afterwards.
--
"Rap ain't about bustin caps and fuckin bitches
It's about fluency with rhymin ingenuity" -> Del the Funky Homosapien
Spirit68
>irking people.
>
Who gives a fuck? I'm sorry, but if player hater had a textbook definition, the
above would fit. What the hell? "his fame is definitely irking people"??? Why
do you give a damn? Hip-hop continues regardless of how many people release
records, how many record labels are started or fail, or how many million dollar
videos get made. Eminem can't destroy hip-hop and he certainly isn't adding
anything worse than what has been presented. You say his lyrics are misogynist.
Okay, point taken. That's one of the main reasons I really don't give a damn
about 90% of most records being released (the lyrics annoy me in one way or
another, misogyny being a pet peeve of mine). He joins the crowd of a million
more misogynist emcees. You said he had good breath control, a decent stage
show, and so on. You say MF Doom did not have all of the above. Neither does a
lot of other so-called emcees. So, Eminem is at least a notch above those type
of cats, on a technical level. I don't know. I think you are missing the nature
of the threat. If anything, Eminem is a symptom of a larger disease: a hip-hop
music industry that promotes misogyny and general nonsense in lyricism...
Peace,
Spirit
Spread Love/Amphibians
The Amphibians' debut single "Lettuce (Entertain You)" b/w "Journey" is
available NOW, on vinyl ($5) and cassettes ($3), add $2 for shipping tapes, $3
for shipping vinyl. E-mail me for more details...
Spirit68
>someone gets robbed its usually by a black person
EVERY time someone gets robbed? Your sarcasm isn;t working here. Flash is
honestly saying what his experience is with white crowds in hip-hop. You are
not saying "everyone I know, when robbed, was robbed by a black person".
Further, statistically since black people are less than 15% of the US
population, it's highly illogical to assume every thief is black. But I'm
overanalyzing your attempt at sarcasm. My point is, by trying to make fun of
what Flash said, you took it what out of bounds beyond what his words alone
implied.
Steve 'Flash' Juon
spir...@aol.com says...
> EVERY time someone gets robbed? Your sarcasm isn;t working here. Flash is
> honestly saying what his experience is with white crowds in hip-hop. You are
> not saying "everyone I know, when robbed, was robbed by a black person".
> Further, statistically since black people are less than 15% of the US
> population, it's highly illogical to assume every thief is black. But I'm
> overanalyzing your attempt at sarcasm. My point is, by trying to make fun of
> what Flash said, you took it what out of bounds beyond what his words alone
> implied.
Damn, and to think I just called you out on the Prodigy thread.
Sometimes Alan, you really confuse me. I don't know whether you are
trying to clown on people for their opinions or whether you actually
respect what people have to say. Youse kinda confusing.
Spirit68
like a regular hip-hop kid to me. I think his album will do reasonably well and
he'll have a decent career. I don't really understand all the animosity towards
the kid in here. He does written freestyles on the radio; so do 90% of the
emcees I know (including NG favs like Organized Konfusion). He said "nigga" on
stage according to Donnie, which I have problems with from a political
standpoint. However, as an emcee, I think he's raised in the tradition of
classic Ice Cube: misogynist, humorous (yes, Cube used to be funny, mostly in
the album skits...wonder what happened?), et cetera. It's a bunch of violent
braggadocio, what hip-hop needs less of, but of all of his peers, I think Em
does it pretty well.
I probably won't buy Em's album, probably for the same reason I didn't buy
Redman's album. That reason being I don't think Eminem has anything to say to
me. I've outgrown punchline rap. I just don't think the cat deserves to be
slammed, at least not more than anybody else out there with shock tactic
punchlines (think Big L).
Spirit68
>problem in the hip-hop games is that niggas are hatin because it's the white
>artists representin the love and it's the black artist poppin crist and each
>other.
You can put the brakes on that bullshit right now, turn the car around, and go
home. There are plenty of black emcees doing it for the love and if you don't
know, you need to hit up Sandbox. J-Live, Aceyalone, Pharaoh Monch, and Black
Thought can destroy all of the emcees you listed below.
>Mountain Brothers....Siah and Yeshua....7l and
>Estoric...Em.....Sole
Don't make it racial, my friend. If you feel one cat was prejudiced, respond
with reason.
Spirit68
>on...
WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, WRONG.
I heard Young Zee way back in 94, when the Outsidaz were signed to Perspective.
Get your facts right.
Steve 'Flash' Juon
spir...@aol.com says...
> >wrong wrong wrong ....em was originally set to do an album with the outsidaz
> >..but he blew up...Zee might have been on since 94 but Em is the bigger emcee
>
> I addressed this via e-mail, but I thought I'd mention here for anyone who was
> misled. The Outsidaz had a rep before anyone ever heard of Eminem. Like I said
> before, I remember hearing the Outsidaz in 94. The Outsidaz were featured on
> "The Score", the biggest selling album in hip-hop history, if memory doesn't
> fail me (what, 17 million copies?). So, it's funny to me that someone thinks
> Eminem "put them on". If Eminem died tomorrow, the Outsidaz would be just fine.
When he's right, he's right.
The first time I ever heard of Pace Won or Young Zee was on The Fugees
cut "Cowboys". I thought they were pretty fresh at the time. It was
also my first exposure to Rah Digga - which is why I thought she was a
member of RefugeeCamp or the Outsidaz when she said "I used to roll with
another crew but they weed sucked" on a Flipmode Squad song.
Peace, Flash
= k O e N s =
Akiem Allah <"-NOSPAM- akiem7"@bellsouth.net> wrote in article
<369AE497...@bellsouth.net>...
> > I agree, I've been to some all white shows and they were the best thing
> > I've ever seen in my life!
> >
> > --
> > -always Fonky Fresh
>
> Raves dont count dumb ass
>
wow Akiem, I didn't know Craze was a rave dj, he hides it really well the
way he plays hip hop and cuts it up and beat juggles and the way the
breakers make a circle to his beats, and here i was thinking he was hip
hop, but obviously as it was a predominantly white crowd it must have been
a rave!
peace
= k O e N s =
Akiem Allah
>
> Akiem Allah <"-NOSPAM- akiem7"@bellsouth.net> wrote in article
> <369AE497...@bellsouth.net>...
>
> > > I agree, I've been to some all white shows and they were the best thing
> > > I've ever seen in my life!
> > >
> > > --
> > > -always Fonky Fresh
> >
> > Raves dont count dumb ass
> >
>
> wow Akiem, I didn't know Craze was a rave dj, he hides it really well the
> way he plays hip hop and cuts it up and beat juggles and the way the
> breakers make a circle to his beats, and here i was thinking he was hip
> hop, but obviously as it was a predominantly white crowd it must have been
> a rave!
>
> peace
Actually, Third World Citizens (Craze's ATL crew) do some
nice Raves, so I hear. But Raves wouldnt really count in a
*Hip-Hop* discussion, would they? I assume he is talking
about a Rave, reason being is that in ATL even the most
obscure white boy Hip-Hop act will bring out a number of
Black folks. A Rave is a different story. Now why dont you
ask mr. honky fresh if he was talking about a Rave or a
Hip-Hop function?
FunkyStyle
>into the music is the hypest crowd of all!
>--
I agree...if you're feelin it, you're feelin it, you know? Flash, I don't know
how you can make these rediculous generalizations about skin color regarding
shows. If there's a show that people are feeling and vibin off of, then that
is what makes the show hype. Your statement was almost as rediculous as Mr.
Kwak's entire post. He obviously had this negative attitude and
mindstate when he walked in the door. I'm sure he wasn't doing anything but
standing against the wall observing the crowd...if you're diggin the show then
that's all that should matter. By the way, I've been to shows that have been
primarily a white crowd and the crowd was hype...jumping, dancing, singing
along, laughing, etc. That is what makes a show live, not the color of the
crowd....and you should know this.
Peace,
FunkyStyle*
Atkins32
..but he blew up...Zee might have been on since 94 but Em is the bigger emcee
wrong whenb they say how wack ur 12' is.........
Spirit68
>..but he blew up...Zee might have been on since 94 but Em is the bigger emcee
I addressed this via e-mail, but I thought I'd mention here for anyone who was
misled. The Outsidaz had a rep before anyone ever heard of Eminem. Like I said
before, I remember hearing the Outsidaz in 94. The Outsidaz were featured on
"The Score", the biggest selling album in hip-hop history, if memory doesn't
fail me (what, 17 million copies?). So, it's funny to me that someone thinks
Eminem "put them on". If Eminem died tomorrow, the Outsidaz would be just fine.
Peace,
Spirit68
>wrong whenb they say how wack ur 12' is.........
1) Urb never said my 12" was "wack".
and assuming this was some attempt to dis...
2) We've sold plenty of copies, quite a few to people in here and everyone that
bought it dug it. No complaints yet.
nfri...@haverford.edu
> > I'm at the train station on 23rd Street, and three white teenagers,
> > North-Faced-up, are standing on the platform. "Did you see his
> > tattoo?" "Yea, he has that cool tattoo on his forearm." "Yea, that
> > shit is tight." I'm thinking to myself, damn, this is the future of
> > hip-hop.
my question is. . .who's more
detrimental to hip-hop----the
north-faced goons that line up for
eminem, the indie rockers that dig
coflow, or the "post-label
shapeshifting yakubian legions" (to
paraphrase one of pedestrian's finer
turns of phrase) who jock the
fellowship?
wait, the fellowship's black--better
make that "who jock each other."
is it more "harmful" to embrace
hip-hop that appeals to the
pretentious white kid in me, or, like
the kids in the story, to jock hip-hop
that projects jock angst onto the
culture?
(when I went to hear him speak,
nelson george claimed that there are
two kinds of appeal hip-hop hold for
white people: either sex symbol or
outlaw icon. claimed that all
mainstream white acts are nothing
more than some combination of the
two conceits)
so what does it mean when the white
underground makes music that's not
directly concerned with milking
racial fantasies?
or are they doing it despite
themselves?
to answer todd's post of the other day,
how black is black free jazz at this
point? how black is the black
contingent of project blowed?
seems like you have to fall back on
some sort of essentialism .. . and when
you're talking about about, say, the
difference between NGA fish rhyming
fast and some white kid from san jose
busting the same style, "essentially
different experiences in society" has
about as much weight as "different
genes."
anyone hear how much the mcgwire
71st ball went for?
Nathanuiel
DJ FonkyFresh
FunkyStyle wrote:
I agree 100%
--
-always Fonky Fresh
cullen
: Did anybody else happen to see the Eminem show @ Tramps? Tony? Were you there
: by any chance? I'm wondering, I'd like to read some other folks observations
: from the show.
Ugh. Actually, i wanted to write a review of this show myself, but someone
beat me to it, and already caused a lot of hype. Now it risks turning into
a major blow-up, along the lines of the other "white boys in hip-hop"
threads, and i really hate contributing to that shit, because no matter
how you slice it, it comes down to white people getting more attention
than deserved in is forum. But, fuck it, let me run down my take on the
show, and then we can come down to differences later(i'll try not to let
the previously-posted review influence me too much, but it might creep
in).
I was driving down to Philly(from Massachussetts) to DJ at a club on
Sunday, and i thought i'd see what was happening Saturday night in NYC - i
always like to stop by and check out good shit; there's no tolls coming
down from Mass. So i check the Village Voice and find out Sir Menelik, MF
Doom, and Eminem are playing at Tramps. DOPE. All three are great MCs in
my book, i'm familiar with substantial amounts of their work... this
should be a nice show. I get psyched.
The show is supposed to start at 9PM, i get there at 10. There's a huge
line outside. I'm starting to get nervous, because it's all white boys,
and they all look clueless. It's not a mix of people, just *white* *boys*.
They're all dressed like Eminem is in promo shots... i'm not liking this.
Some white girls get in line behind me, and they are equally clueless. I
feel totally alone, because i probably look like the biggest clueless one
of the bunch - white guy with long hair and glasses and not a lot of
fashion sense - and yet i feel ten steps ahead of everyone i'm seeing. The
dudes in front of me starts talking about Tragedy, and i almost want to
say something, but they're so fucking clueless about the whole thing that
i don't weant to bother.
The line starts moving and i hear somebody start to go on. I'm wondering
who it is... Doesn't sound like anyone on the bill. I get in about two
minutes after they start, and there's like 15 cats onstage. I recongnize
the person behind the wheels, but i'm not sure who it is. Somebody onstage
says something about "that MOP shit," but it doesn't look like MOP - no
gold fronts. They're shouting about Brooklyn a lot. In fact, just about
every other word is "Brooklyn." I'm kind of upset, as they are giving a
typical, or should i say, typifying, wack performance. A bunch of dudes
onstage screaming each other's lines, i can't hear what anyone's saying. I
admit they have energy, but when most of the beats you're rhyming over are
someone else's, i want to hear what you're saying... otherwise, how am i
going to get into your shit? After a few more "songs," they get off stage.
My girl(who got to the show about an hour before me) tells me it was
Shadez of Brooklyn. It was Evil Dee on the decks - he shouts that the
Black Moon album will be coming soon.
DJ Riz gets on the turntables and starts playing some classics, although
kind of poorly. My girlfriend fills me in on some stuff from earlier -
namely, that Bobbito came out and announced the "breakup" with Stretch,
and said that he's not going to be DJing for Hot 97 anymore. Apparently
the crowd really cheered. I start to look around at the audience, and i
notice it's filled with "heads" - chickenheads, knuckleheads, potheads,
and ex-metalheads. Some people are grooving to what Riz is playing,
although his DJ skills were pretty weak that night. He only played a verse
a song, and he was pretty much sticking to the "hits"(Golden Age stuff).
After too long of a wait, Bobbito announced the next crew - A-Ton, maybe?
A-Bomb? I don't know. They come from the Shadez of Brooklyn school of
rocking a jam, too... lots of shouting, little coherence. If these two
acts were going to replace Menelik and MF Doom, i wasn't going to go home
happy. I still wasn't sure how my girlfriend would react to Eminem - she
had onyl heard a few tracks before - so i wanted her to at least get a few
other dope performances to make up for it if she hated the headliner.
Suffice to say, these dudes didn't make up for anything.
Riz returned to the turntables and played a few more sure-shots - Brand
Nubian, Nas... and more and more wack white kids are filling the place. I
look over to my right to see a bunch of Gen X-ers doing the cabbage
patch(a dance almost entirely done mockingly these days) to Brand Nubian.
I'm upset. Riz isn't exactly thrilling me with his DJ performance, either.
And the sound kind of sucks... the music is not loud enough at all.
Eclipse knocks Riz off the tables, and none too soon. His set is a little
better, and he *does* play "Blood Type," and i think i'm the only one
getting hyped up to that shit. I'm sorry, that song is the most banging
single out right now... what's going on?! I'm angry at the crowd, except
for the people at the very front... They consistently have seemed to be
the ones most into the show so far, getting into the performances, singing
along to the tracks. I didn't even want to try to get up there, though...
last time i tried to budge in front of a white boy who thought he was
tough(at the Kool Keith/Ultramagnetic show), he informed me that "Yo,
there's MAD HEADS up in here!" and tried to intimidate me. I didn't want
beef from any idiot trying to show off, so i just stayed where i was - in
the middle. I could see fine and didn't have to worry about getting
crushed. But it furthered my isolation from the people i felt any
semblance of connection with.
After about an hour, Bobbito announces MF Doom. I've loved him since the
KMD days, and i'm excited. Well, MF also decides to bring ten cats
onstage. Fuck! Who is schooling these guys on performance? I like Doom's
mask though, it fits his "supervillain" thing. He does a few tracks, and
the sound is pretty bad. Add that to the fact that his boys are screaming
along, and it's not a very complementary situation for his slow-and-low
style. The first two tracks are from his new 12", that doesn't thrill me
too much either. Ah well, it's still MF, and he's still dope. He lets his
friends rip a few verses in between his own songs; plays two more old
joints, and gets offstage. The people who actually know MF are very upset
that he hasn't performed "Hey!," and they let it be known. Bobbito says
"Y'all want to hear Hey!? MF, get back here and do "Hey!" for the people."
SOmebody behind me is yelling "Scooby Doo!"... well, at least he knows
what the song sounds like. MF does "Hey!" and that pleases me a little,
although i'm kind of disappointed now. Bobbito says that he'll introduce
the Outsidaz, who will introduce Eminem - that means no Menelik. Ah well.
There isn't a very big break between MF and the Outsidaz, thank god. Once
again, ten or so dudes come out. At least it makes sense this time, 'cause
most of them have lyrics. The one guy does his verse from the Redman
album - i guess it's Zee(am i revealing my lack of knowledge by not
knowing who he is?), and he comes off pretty well. The energy of the
Outsidaz actually is contagious, and it doesn't come off as muddy as the
other groups. They introduce Pacewon, and i get excited. I didn't know he
was gonna be there! He does his two joints, and everyone's hyped. They
follow with maybe one more "everyone grab the mic" kind of song, and get
ready to introduce Eminem. The crowd is going bananas. Like the other
reviewer said, a novelty record breaking down the word "fuck" is played. I
thought that shit was pretty funny, actually.
Eminem and Royce rush onstage and, if memory serves, go right into "My
Name Is." (I don't understand how the people who didn't know shit about
"Blood Type" or "One for All" knew this shit word-for-word, but whatever.)
The intro actually made more sense as a leads-in for "I Just
Don't Give A...", but so be it - he obviously wants to end his set with
that one. Em and Royce do their Bad Meets Evil joints, and then Royce
busts an acapella verse. Pretty good thug stuff, but i like thug stuff. Em
tells people not to sleep on Royce, then does "Brain Damage," and his
verse from "5 Star Generals." Sme people actually didn't know the lyrics
to that last one... yet somehow they know the freestyle verse he kicks
next by heart. Then Eminem does a new freestyle, and it's pretty funny,
but *quite* misogynistic. That's the one the other reviewer quoted with
the line "There's three things i hate: Women, Girls, and Bitches." I'm
kind of nervous and looking over at my girlfriend. Luckily, after every
sexist lyrics, he says something really funny to make her laugh. My
laughter is a little more hesitant... and there is a slight rumble in the
crowd when he says that he's "Spittin' the same shit that got Tupac
killed." (I booed when he said something about hitting pregnant women, but
no-one else seemed to even blink). A few of the other Outsidaz(including
Zee) kick verses, trying to be like Eminem - lots of "bitch" talk. Royce
is the only one who doesn't feel compelled to sound like Eminem - he seems
comfortable kicking that thug shit, and that's fine by me.
Zee, or one of the other Outsidaz, says "we can do this shit all night,"
and i'm thinking "I hope so, i want to hear some rhymes i haven't heard
before!"... and then they go into "I Just Don't Give a Fuck." Everybody
gets hyped and jumping... and all the Outsidaz hop back onstage. It's
cool, but i'm thinking "Is this it?" It was... no encore or nothing. I'm
thinking they ran into time constraints, but i might just be giving them
and easy out.
ANyway, my overall assessment is that the show was good, but not great,
and the audience sucked. I didn't see any beef between the Outsidaz and
Eminem - it seemed like they were all happy to be down with someone who
was shining, and whose skills they acknowledged. I saw Zee crowd-surfing,
so he seemed to be getting into the shit.
Okay, i gotta go now, but i think that's enough for folks to digest at the
moment. E-mail or follow-up and i'll gladly debate anything i've said.....
--
cullen
Kenneth Hyde
like a regular hip-hop kid to me. I think his album will do reasonably well and
he'll have a decent career. I don't really understand all the animosity towards
the kid in here. He does written freestyles on the radio; so do 90% of the
emcees I know (including NG favs like Organized Konfusion). He said "nigga" on
stage according to Donnie, which I have problems with from a political
standpoint. However, as an emcee, I think he's raised in the tradition of
classic Ice Cube: misogynist, humorous (yes, Cube used to be funny, mostly in
the album skits...wonder what happened?), et cetera. It's a bunch of violent
braggadocio, what hip-hop needs less of, but of all of his peers, I think Em
does it pretty well.
I probably won't buy Em's album, probably for the same reason I didn't buy
Redman's album. That reason being I don't think Eminem has anything to say to
me. I've outgrown punchline rap. I just don't think the cat deserves to be
slammed, at least not more than anybody else out there with shock tactic
punchlines (think Big L).>>
I agree. Em is cool. He's not going to change the world with his raps,
but I like him. I think he was the hot topic in here for a while, so he
was first on everyone's minds, thus people hold him at this supposed
high level of expectation. So by that, he better be the best thing since
sliced bread or he straight out sucks...
his material is getting a little redundant, but shit , I can still
listen to his shit and enjoy it. Those freewrittens he kicks are some of
his dopest shit though....
plus the fact that he is white adds to all that...so he is looked upon
with an extra-scrutinous eye or he is jocked to no end....
it goes with the territory....
Funny thing is I know he got a hard time coming up being white, but I
never heard him scream "damn, these all-black racist hip-hop shows!!"
Peace
Mr. Hyde
Donnie Kwak
My friends are some older spoiled city cats who have been there and done that
when it comes to live hip-hop shows. So if it ain't Rakim or KRS or Black
Moon, forget about it. I'm still young, so I gotta see everything I can.
> Why were you so determined?
Cause Eminem is definitely going somewhere, and I wanted to see him at a
medium-sized venue before he blew out the tax bracket. And I wanted to see if
he could rhyme as well as advertised in a live setting.
> At Davey's site, the reaction was that you were going to
> the show with your mind already made up.
Well, that may be true. When I first heard the show was coming to town, I
made a post here about it, saying I wanted to see if Em could really rhyme.
And I wrote that when groups like 3rd Bass were doing tours, they had to win
over hostile crowds, and a lot of times, they failed. I remember hearing
about 3rd Bass doing a show in D.C., Chocolate City, "Cactus Album"-era, and
m'fckas straight booed them off in the middle of the first song. And nobody
can tell me Em is tighter than either of the MC's in 3rd Bass. So I wrote
that Em would have a bunch of white kids on his nuts from the minute he took
the stage, and how he's lucky for groups like 3rd Bass and the Beasties. So I
was definitely cynical from the get, no question.
> Isn't M&M down with the Outsidaz?
So I've now learned. Whatever the case may be, the whole situation was askew.
Not once did Em acknowledge any member of the Outsidaz, even though they were
all over the stage during his final song. He kept looking at the crowd while
group members were tugging all over him, a pretty funny sight, cause Em looks
damn serious when he rhymes. And the second the song ended, Em was ghost, and
Zee stayed on stage, yellin' "OUTSIDAZ, OUTSIDAZ," as if to upstage a m'fcka.
> Am I the only one bothered by the fanaticism that this implies? [knowing all
> of Em's rhymes word-for-word]
Fanaticism toward hip-hop, no, but fanaticism toward Em, maybe. But I can't
really point the finger, because I knew a lot of Canibus's rhymes before he
really blew. So I was kinda harsh on that point. This shit is hip-hop, after
all.
> What makes him that much better (as the poster boy [for white angst]) than
> El-P?
> Is it the shock raps?
Yea, man. El-P has got angst, but then again, all rappers got angst. Fuck
it, everybody does. But Em speaks specifically to that white kid that wants
to embrace the 4 elements (Shit-Talking, Blunt-Smoking, Gun-Shooting,
Women-Hating) but can't because there is no white urban menace, no white Pac
or Biggie to live vicariously through. Em is somebody to believe in, a
representative for these forgotten cats who need to feel like they are truly a
part of this bad-assssss rap thing.
On another note, you think Ol' Dirty needs to make a joint called "I Just
Don't Give a Fuck?"
> > I'm at the train station on 23rd Street, and three white teenagers,
> > North-Faced-up, are standing on the platform. "Did you see his
> > tattoo?" "Yea, he has that cool tattoo on his forearm." "Yea, that
> > shit is tight." I'm thinking to myself, damn, this is the future of
> > hip-hop.
>
> I thought I was the only who got this.
> Could you break it down.
It kind of speaks on the last point, I guess. I'm not trying to be no hip-hop
purist, but... you know, I'm sitting there on the platform, probably five
minutes after the show ended, fifty different thoughts whizzing in my head
about all I had seen and heard, and these three kids stroll in, and I just
thought it was kind of bugged that it was just minutes after they bounced,
minutes, and that this was the content of their first audible conversation to
each other, son's forearm art.
I mean, would you talk about Kweli's sweatshirt after seeing him blow for 30
minutes? Lyrics, beats, freestyles.... tattoos? But hey, I know some younger
kids that ogle rappers' gold chains. Shit, I guess I've graduated to an older
generation now, so maybe I should just sit on a porch and complain. You all
know the deal. Peace, kari. Don
Dirk Diggler
Spirit68 wrote:
> >and maybe URB is
> >wrong whenb they say how wack ur 12' is.........
>
> 1) Urb never said my 12" was "wack".
>
YOU CAN TRY WACKING YOUR 12", THAT WORKS FOR ME
--
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* D I R K D I G G L E R *-
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* *
* *
* *
J.A. Brown
>
> >wrong wrong wrong ....em was originally set to do an album with the outsidaz
> >..but he blew up...Zee might have been on since 94 but Em is the bigger emcee
>
> I addressed this via e-mail, but I thought I'd mention here for anyone who was
> misled. The Outsidaz had a rep before anyone ever heard of Eminem. Like I said
> before, I remember hearing the Outsidaz in 94. The Outsidaz were featured on
> "The Score", the biggest selling album in hip-hop history, if memory doesn't
> fail me (what, 17 million copies?). So, it's funny to me that someone thinks
> Eminem "put them on". If Eminem died tomorrow, the Outsidaz would be just fine.
The June 96 Source says that Young Zee also put out an album
of his own featuring cuts with Lauryn, Krs-1, and Rah Digga.
At this time very few people outside of Detroit had even heard of
Eminem. Anyone know if Zee's album was any good?
Also, does anyone know how Eminem came to be in the Outsidaz?
To my (limited)knowledge, he is the only one who hails from Detroit.
Unless you count Bizarre, but the only person I've ever heard say that
Bizarre was in the Oudsidaz, was Bizarre.
Spirit, if I order the Amphibians single from you, do I get
a free hand knit scarf? Because it is freezing here in Michigan, and
there is like four feet of snow on the ground. It's like a freakin
"sea of ivory" out there.
Peace,
Chris
nfri...@haverford.edu
> >..but he blew up...Zee might have been on since 94 but Em is the bigger emcee
>
crawls when I hear eminem called "an
(bigger) emcee?"
I guess he is, technically. but not in
the same way that 98% of the other
people mentioned on the bewsgroup
are
the same way david lee roth was a
singer, sam kinison a comedian, david
duke a politician
Nathaniel
Dreamweasel
>But Em speaks specifically to that white kid that wants
>to embrace the 4 elements (Shit-Talking, Blunt-Smoking,
>Gun-Shooting, Women-Hating)
DAMN.
: )
Von tripps
>> So can I make the arguement that White crowds are better?
>
>Sure. That's your experience. Donnie was talking about his, I'm talking
>about mine, you talk about yours. There's no reason for us to have all
>had the same experience.
This is true. To this day the best rap concert I've ever been to both invlove
Run Dmc; once in 1986 (whenever The King of Rock tour was) and 1991 in
Karlsruhe, Germany at a German/American fest. The King of Rock was mostly
Black. The other a mixed bag.
But, to teh point what makes a concert a good show? Most rap show I'ver ever
been to are hampered by a lack of imagination. But that might also do with
budget. Watching someones friends and family on stage does get dull. Busta
gives a nice hyed show. but Ive only seen him at Smoking Grooves.
So, what is the best live show that you have seen?
Rap: The Run DMC King of Rock w/ Timex Social Club, LL Cool J and the Beastie
Boys
GangStarr (at a little venue in Karlsruhe, Germany in 1991)
Rock: GWAR, Ex-Cops, Nahville Pussy, Impotent Sea Snakes, U2, Pycho Sonic
Cindy
Other: Boy O Boy (ska), P-Funk(funk, and My very first concert{thanks Mom})
MU330 (ska) Bad Brains(hardcore)
Von Tripps
Von tripps
>if the future of hip-hop is to make it all white, I don't want it.>>>
>
>Imagine saying that about any other race. Imagine a person of another race
>saying that about their race!!!! Lol, morons like you make me sick.
Isn't this attitude they same reason Blacks aren't fairly represented in Jazz,
Rock, Ska, Techno, House. . .
Von Tripps
Kenneth Hyde
> > North-Faced-up, are standing on the platform. "Did you see his
> > tattoo?" "Yea, he has that cool tattoo on his forearm." "Yea, that
> > shit is tight." I'm thinking to myself, damn, this is the future of
> > hip-hop.
>
> I thought I was the only who got this.
> Could you break it down.
<<It kind of speaks on the last point, I guess. I'm not trying to be no hip-hop
purist, but... you know, I'm sitting there on the platform, probably five
minutes after the show ended, fifty different thoughts whizzing in my head
about all I had seen and heard, and these three kids stroll in, and I just
thought it was kind of bugged that it was just minutes after they bounced,
minutes, and that this was the content of their first audible conversation to
each other, son's forearm art.
I mean, would you talk about Kweli's sweatshirt after seeing him blow for 30
minutes? Lyrics, beats, freestyles.... tattoos? But hey, I know some younger
kids that ogle rappers' gold chains. Shit, I guess I've graduated to an older
generation now, so maybe I should just sit on a porch and complain. You all
know the deal. Peace, kari. Don>>
I feel you definitely on this...good thread..
Peace
Mr. Hyde
Kenneth Hyde
>
> >wrong wrong wrong ....em was originally set to do an album with the outsidaz
> >..but he blew up...Zee might have been on since 94 but Em is the
bigger emcee
>
who was
> misled. The Outsidaz had a rep before anyone ever heard of Eminem.
Like I said
> before, I remember hearing the Outsidaz in 94. The Outsidaz were featured on
> "The Score", the biggest selling album in hip-hop history, if memory doesn't
> fail me (what, 17 million copies?). So, it's funny to me that someone thinks
> Eminem "put them on". If Eminem died tomorrow, the Outsidaz would be
just fine.
<<The June 96 Source says that Young Zee also put out an album
of his own featuring cuts with Lauryn, Krs-1, and Rah Digga.
At this time very few people outside of Detroit had even heard of
Eminem. Anyone know if Zee's album was any good?>>
I have it. It's decent. real good if you like Zee's flow where he drags
out the end of his lines. I like it...Beats are cool too. Also a Jeru &
Premier diss in there as well....
Mr. Hyde
or...@weiss.che.utexas.edu
I've been to shows like Donnie's. I probably could have
written the same review without seeing the show. I'm
suprised I didn't hear about folks slam dancing. In
my neck of the woods, the white kids love to slam
at hip hop shows, particularly the bigger ones.
I don't think people are addressing some core issues
though. Plain and simple, white and black folks are
different. They want different things, they respond
in different ways.
I'm used to going to shows where black folks are in
control of the venue, even though it might not be
in our hood. Maybe it's fear, maybe it's respect, but
when the crowd is mostly black, white kids don't go
"bonkers" as much. Those that do are severly chastised
by both Black and White fans. There is a lot more
social control, along racial lines, at a black controlled
hip hop show. Those sanctions are lifted when White folks
run things. Everything goes at those kinda shows. I
remember HillBilly telling me that some chick got buck
naked at a show, not for some legs contest or wet-t-shirt
contest, but just because she could.
But most of the time in Austin, white folks are in
numerical control of the venue. When that happens
a lot of things I don't expect at black controlled
shows happen.
- slam dancing
- intense watching of b-boys - so intense that often
folks spend more time watching really bad breakin' whilst
the mc that they originally came for is getting busy.
There is a lot of voyeurism.
- No dancing during the Dj set - even in black underground
circles there is a little dancing. Part of that might be
because black folks in the underground tend to be the social
misfits/outcasts from the general black society. Often we
outcasts reject some of what is going on in the rest of
black society. But girls and guys do dance. At a white
show, there are a couple of white girls dancing by themselves,
while their male counterparts are trying to get another brew,
jumping in the cipher, or holding down their part of the wall.
- drunkenness - I'll be straight up with, Black folks like
to get drunk and high just as much as white folks, but I hardly
ever see black folks get to the point where they can't walk and
have to get someone to help them out of a club. (at underground
events. Mainstream joints are a different story)
- not knowing the words to classics/current big hits, but
knowing the words of artist that they came to see - I've been
to plenty shows where the general audience does not have a clue
about what is popular now, nor what was a classic then. But when
the featured mc steps up they are their reciting every utterance.
At black underground shows, the exact opposite happens. I'm
not saying that it's better, but it's what most folks that
I know (who grew up and are familiar with black underground
shows)expect.
The minority of white folks that go to the black underground
shows, end up trying to be like the rest of the crowd. And
when the numbers change, it's usually a handful of black kids
going the other way. With another handful wondering why these
kids aren't being "normal"?
hmmm.. Hatemail, Burning Crosses, Personality Tests? comments?
peace
k. orr
house of phat beats
Mike Stornant
likely be on a for sure classic CHRONIC 2000 AND ZEE WILL STILL BE
NOTHIN MORE THAN A BORING PIECE OF SHIT BACKPACKER LOSER BUM
Todd Ito
: <<<And Donnie is right:
: Imagine saying that about any other race. Imagine a person of another race
: saying that about their race!!!! Lol, morons like you make me sick.
Well, as much as liberal wanks would like to deny it, there are actually
differences between white people and black people. And between them and
Latinos and Asians and so on. There are certain things that are unique to
different cultures. Hip-hop is something that was initially created by
and for urban blacks and Latinos in New York. I'm not saying that other
people can't enjoy or participate in hip-hop. That would eliminate some
of my favorite hip-hop artists. Common's from Chicago, so he would have
to be into house, not hip-hop. Siah is white, so he wouldn't be able to
rhyme. I think hip-hop should be open to everyone who wants to become
part of the culture. BUT, everyone must acknowledge that hip-hop is
primarily African-American at its core. For hip-hop to become an
all-white artform/culture (which is pretty much impossible and certainly
not what Donnie was talking about) would indeed be a travesty. I don't
want that, and I can't imagine anyone in the world who would want that.
That's stupid. Am I a racist for not wanting a predominantly
African-American artform to become all-white? You'd be an ass if you said
yes. Why don't you think a little before you start typing? Morons like
YOU make ME sick.
Todd
Todd Ito
: Yeshua is black.
Actually, I'm pretty sure he's Latino. Not that it really matters.
Todd
DJ FonkyFresh
Todd Ito wrote:
No, it doesn't really mater but Im pretty sure he's white, I've seen him
in person.
--
-always Fonky Fresh
DJ FonkyFresh
Kenneth Hyde wrote:
>
>
> plus the fact that he is white adds to all that...so he is looked upon
> with an extra-scrutinous eye or he is jocked to no end....
See, it's people like you that have to point out that he is a white rapper. Why
can't he just be a rapper?
--
-always Fonky Fresh
B. David Harrison
Because like it or not, Hip-hop is tied to race, IT MATTERS. That
probably doesn't make you feel good, but it's true.
B. David Harrison Anti-Knuckleheadosity:Last Updated 1/11/1999
Live from Seattle http://staff.washington.edu/~bdharris
"This ain't no time when the usual is suitable" -Mos Def
"I think that when we look back on the latter half of the 90s, we'll
see it as an age of ridiculous, ostentatious, ultimately selfish
overpracticality." -T. Tauri
tre_b...@my-dejanews.com
DJ FonkyFresh <djfonk...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Kenneth Hyde wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > plus the fact that he is white adds to all that...so he is looked upon
> > with an extra-scrutinous eye or he is jocked to no end....
>
> See, it's people like you that have to point out that he is a white rapper.
Why
> can't he just be a rapper?
>
> -always Fonky Fresh
>
>
First of all, you two really don't like each other do you?
Anyways, I have to agree that Em will eventually fall off. He just doesn't
seem to have a whole lot of staying power. Not saying I don't like him, I do.
I think he'll blow up, cameo on some hits, get a record deal, maybe blow up a
bit more. Then thats it. I give him one album.
Tre'Boogie
email: tre_b...@my-dejanews.com
"My attempts to redefine your Hip Hop Guidelines..Cause I'd rather
stimulate your mind than emulate your purpose..."
-- Aceyalone, The Guidelines
cullen
slightly different perspective than the other attendee, but with a lot of
the same conclusions. I will respond to a few things here though.
or...@weiss.che.utexas.edu wrote:
: But most of the time in Austin, white folks are in
: numerical control of the venue. When that happens
: a lot of things I don't expect at black controlled
: shows happen.
: - slam dancing
There was some of this at the Eminem show, actually it was more crowd
surfing. I said "Oh my god." once i saw someone go up. Apparently the
Outsidaz were into it though, as i saw Young Zee surfing. This shit is
played out in general, not just in hip-hop.
Btw, i have seen it happen at predominantly black shows, although, again,
it's mostly instigated by the artists. Onyx, before they got big, i think
i caught Black Moon stage-diving...
: - intense watching of b-boys - so intense that often
: folks spend more time watching really bad breakin' whilst
: the mc that they originally came for is getting busy.
: There is a lot of voyeurism.
Definitely true. I don't even think there was this level of respect at the
Eminem show, however.
: - No dancing during the Dj set - even in black underground
: circles there is a little dancing. Part of that might be
This was the most upsetting thing. If you're not dancing, at least sing
along, or mouth the words... something to indicate support for what's
being played. There was hardly any, and it got worse as the night went on.
The only song that got a majority of support was Nas "Represent," nothing
else. There was shitty sound, though, and DJ Riz was weak, so those
factors are partly to blame. That idiot doing the cabbage patch, though,
really irked me.
: because black folks in the underground tend to be the social
: misfits/outcasts from the general black society. Often we
: outcasts reject some of what is going on in the rest of
: black society. But girls and guys do dance. At a white
: - not knowing the words to classics/current big hits, but
: knowing the words of artist that they came to see - I've been
: to plenty shows where the general audience does not have a clue
: about what is popular now, nor what was a classic then. But when
: the featured mc steps up they are their reciting every utterance.
Ugh, see above. This shit was pissing me off. They were playing bona fide
classic joints, jams that there is *no way* you could not be down with,
and it was not getting any response. "D. Original" got a little support,
but that was pretty early on in the night. I didn't see anyone signing
along to Brand Nubian or De La Soul("Jenifa").
: The minority of white folks that go to the black underground
: shows, end up trying to be like the rest of the crowd. And
: when the numbers change, it's usually a handful of black kids
: going the other way. With another handful wondering why these
: kids aren't being "normal"?
No matter what kind of show i go to, i just try to be myself. That usually
makes me feel excluded all the time, but i can at least stay at peace
internally. People need to stop being such followers in general, and
trying to prove how "down" you are usually reveals you to be the most
un-down of all.
--
cullen
Agent of the Sixth International
Kingpin97
>differences between white people and black people. And between them and
>Latinos and Asians and so on. There are certain things that are unique to
>different cultures. Hip-hop is something that was initially created by
>and for urban blacks and Latinos in New York. I'm not saying that other
>people can't enjoy or participate in hip-hop. That would eliminate some
>of my favorite hip-hop artists. Common's from Chicago, so he would have
>to be into house, not hip-hop. Siah is white, so he wouldn't be able to
>rhyme. I think hip-hop should be open to everyone who wants to become
>part of the culture. BUT, everyone must acknowledge that hip-hop is
>primarily African-American at its core. For hip-hop to become an
>all-white artform/culture (which is pretty much impossible and certainly
>not what Donnie was talking about) would indeed be a travesty. I don't
>want that, and I can't imagine anyone in the world who would want that.
>That's stupid. Am I a racist for not wanting a predominantly
>African-American artform to become all-white? You'd be an ass if you said
>yes. Why don't you think a little before you start typing? Morons like
>YOU make ME sick.
Well, looking back at it I dont think I made my point clear enough. My whole
point was I cant stand when white kids will sit there and rip on other whites
and rave about blacks in an effort to seem "down". You would never see blacks
admit to whites being better at blacks at anything, yet these wiggers
continually insult whites to gain acceptance. Now as for what you said, I agree
there are differences between races. And I think its great if a group creates
something and wants to preserve that for themselves. But there is no way whites
could express an interest to keep something all white without being branded a
racist, a hate monger, etc. You cant deny that.
mike_dodd
show in the summer these kids down front were slamdancing and some kid
got knocked over. The Boys stopped in the middle of the song and then
told everyone to find a new dance because slamdancing is so "1990"
Later on in the show the Beasties tried to start up a dance contest to get
people to do some different shit. Not too successful but an interesting
approach. Slamdancing will always have a niche in music because of its
relation to getting out aggression. Rock and roll was originally about
rebellion and slamdancing is kind of the dance form of this. Plus, it
takes very little rhythm.
Peace, Mike Dodd
Trying to find the new Coup album
md...@trentu.ca
BSE
>
> >The
> >problem in the hip-hop games is that niggas are hatin because it's the white
> >artists representin the love and it's the black artist poppin crist and each
> >other.
>
> You can put the brakes on that bullshit right now, turn the car around, and go
> home. There are plenty of black emcees doing it for the love and if you don't
> know, you need to hit up Sandbox. J-Live, Aceyalone, Pharaoh Monch, and Black
> Thought can destroy all of the emcees you listed below.
Eh dont make it racial Sprit.
Siah and Yeshua might not be able to out battle Monch or Black thought
but thye are up with them as far as quality of lyrics. Props where props
is due.
BSE
----BSE----------------------------------------
"I love hip-hop.
Just so happens a lot of people who get
called "hip-hop" don't love it that much" - Spirit68
__________________BSE hip hop__________________
_____________ http://www.bseuk.com ____________
BSE
The best crowd is the crowd that gathers around some floats and a bunch
of sound systems in west london every september.
There are kids only months old, and there are old people, 70s, 80s.
There are people form every ethnic origin, from all over london.
There are people from totally different socio-economic backgrounds.
And for a couple of days, they all dance together, and blow teh whistles
together, and smile at each other, whether its sunny or rainy, they are
out in teh street.
Hip hop heads who thin theyve seen crowds need to come to Carnival.
Peace, BSE.
BSE
>
> >and maybe URB is
> >wrong whenb they say how wack ur 12' is.........
>
> 1) Urb never said my 12" was "wack".
>
what did they say then as i cant get URB?
> 2) We've sold plenty of copies, quite a few to people in here and everyone that
> bought it dug it. No complaints yet.
Word, from what I heard of Luttuce on Appleboys tape the shit is fatter
than the average weight of a Jerry Springer audience member.
Im coming to new york next week spirit, is there any way I can pick up
the 12" while im over????? It seems stupid to be a few hours away and
then have to make you send it across the ocean. Email me yeah?
Atkins32
heard ur joint in atlanta i was like wtf?....interuppting goodie mob and
outkast to play that shit?
ba...@home.com
DJ FonkyFresh <djfonk...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> No, it doesn't really mater but Im pretty sure he's white, I've seen him
> in person.
You may have seen him in person, but since I've been exposed to correspondence
between him and a magazine editor, and in those emails, he says he is
Colombian. Doesn't that make him right?
Oh yeah, you're playing yourself in that discussion with Akiem.
One Love,
Terry Malko
'A rich man is one with knowledge, happiness and his health'
--Com
Richard D. Allen
: > I'm at the train station on 23rd Street, and three white teenagers,
: > North-Faced-up, are standing on the platform. "Did you see his
: > tattoo?" "Yea, he has that cool tattoo on his forearm." "Yea, that
: > shit is tight." I'm thinking to myself, damn, this is the future of
: > hip-hop.
: I thought I was the only who got this.
: Could you break it down.
Do you mean "got this" as in "understood Donnie's reference," or
as in "heard this kinda shit every day"? If it's the first I'm going to
reserve comment, but if it's the second, I have to say that the "white
indie head" phenomenon is still restricted to certain parts of the country
(like big cities). Hip-hop shows I go to are either predominantly black or
a white rock crowd. I've only been to one show ever where the crowd was
mostly white heads and it was an eye-opener for me.
--
Richard Allen
aug...@email.unc.edu
Kenneth Hyde
>
>
> Kenneth Hyde wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > plus the fact that he is white adds to all that...so he is looked upon
> > with an extra-scrutinous eye or he is jocked to no end....
>
> See, it's people like you that have to point out that he is a white
rapper. Why
> can't he just be a rapper?
>
<< Because like it or not, Hip-hop is tied to race, IT MATTERS. That
probably doesn't make you feel good, but it's true.>>
Damn I didn't catch this one...I didn't have to point out that he was
white. It was all up on the ng beforehand. Plus I was explaining why
folks are so hard on him or why they loved him to death....
of course I'm with B, hip-hop was and is tied to race. I'm sure it
doesn't make this fool feel good, but the truth hurts. Hopefully one day
it will all make sense and he'll find it...
Mr. Hyde
Kenneth Hyde
DJ FonkyFresh <djfonk...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Kenneth Hyde wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > plus the fact that he is white adds to all that...so he is looked upon
> > with an extra-scrutinous eye or he is jocked to no end....
>
> See, it's people like you that have to point out that he is a white rapper.
Why
> can't he just be a rapper?
>
> -always Fonky Fresh
>
>
<<First of all, you two really don't like each other do you?>>
Just different views. That's all. I don't know who he is. I just see a
bunch of silly words on the screen attributed to his name...
Peace
Mr. Hyde
Mike Stornant
POINTS AND THERE WAS NO HATIN ON EM FOR NO REASON LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE
DOES.TO THOSE EMINEM HATERS I WANNA PARAPHRASE SHORT AND SAY,PUT YOUR
BACKPACK ON AND SHUT THE FUCK UP
wta...@midway.uchicago.edu
YOU TELL THEM WHATS UP MY WIGGA
...nesta...
____________________________________________________
Most of you can't understand what I am saying to you
Even in my human form the message I'm relaying
One good thing about music
When it hits you feel no pain
_____________________________________________________
Todd Ito
: Spirit68 wrote:
: >
: > >The
: > >problem in the hip-hop games is that niggas are hatin because it's the white
: > >artists representin the love and it's the black artist poppin crist and each
: > >other.
: >
: > You can put the brakes on that bullshit right now, turn the car around, and go
: > home. There are plenty of black emcees doing it for the love and if you don't
: > know, you need to hit up Sandbox. J-Live, Aceyalone, Pharaoh Monch, and Black
: > Thought can destroy all of the emcees you listed below.
: Eh dont make it racial Sprit.
Maybe you didn't read the same post, I did, but Spirit was NOT the one
making this racial. This dumbfuck said that "niggas" were upset that
whites were keeping it real, while blacks were all about the benjamins, to
use two completely played out phrases. Spirit merely pointed out that
there are many black artist who do it for the love, to use another empty
phrase. How is that making it racial? Shit, why did I have to write
this? It's pretty fucking obvious if you read what the two of them wrote.
Todd
Todd Ito
: Well, looking back at it I dont think I made my point clear enough. My whole
: point was I cant stand when white kids will sit there and rip on other whites
: and rave about blacks in an effort to seem "down". You would never see blacks
: admit to whites being better at blacks at anything, yet these wiggers
: continually insult whites to gain acceptance. Now as for what you said, I agree
: there are differences between races. And I think its great if a group creates
: something and wants to preserve that for themselves. But there is no way whites
: could express an interest to keep something all white without being branded a
: racist, a hate monger, etc. You cant deny that.
First of all, you used the word "wigger," which shows where you're coming
from. That's an ignorant term. Secondly, no one in this newsgroup
(except maybe Akiem) ever said they wanted hip-hop to remain all-black.
Flash just said that he didn't want it to become all-white, which is very
different, and I agree with him. An equivalent statement would be that
some white person wanted to keep classical European ballroom dancing from
becoming all-black. This is an improbable circumstance, but it does show
the absurdity of the situation. There is no chance in hell that anything
European in origin will ever become all-black, because Euro-American
culture is so dominant in the United States. Still, I wouldn't call that
person racist. If they wanted to prevent a black person from entering a
ballroom dance competetion, hell yes, I'd say they were racist. Yet, if
they wanted to prevent the ballroom dance from becoming overly reliant on
African rhythms and dancing, then I wouldn't say they were racist.
Because that would mean that the essence of ballroom dancing was corrupted
to its core. And I do want to see that happen to hip-hop. That's all I
meant, and you white guys need to stop being so defensive about being
white. Chill.
Todd
Alexander Carlton
: to its core. And I do want to see that happen to hip-hop. That's all I
: meant, and you white guys need to stop being so defensive about being
: white. Chill.
: Todd
What? You callin' me white? I'm gonna break your face... don't ever call
me white! What are you trying to do? Ruin my rep? Don't EVER call me
white!
Alex Carlton
Advocates International
"I'm Slick like Exxon, Better in a Car than Techron"
(c)1999, Advocates International
All Rights Reversed.
nfri...@haverford.edu
<77ofcp$5s7$1...@mark.ucdavis.edu>,
ner...@dogbert.ucdavis.edu
(Alexander Carlton) wrote:
> Todd Ito (ti...@email.unc.edu) wrote:
> : to its core. And I do want to see that happen to hip-hop. That's all I
> : meant, and you white guys need to stop being so defensive about being
> : white. Chill.
> : Todd
>
> What? You callin' me white? I'm gonna break your face... don't ever call
> me white! What are you trying to do? Ruin my rep? Don't EVER call me
> white!
>
> Alex Carlton
I think it would be really helpful if
everyone on here informed the ng of
their racial, regional, and
socioeconomic backgrounds. and the
capacity in which they're involved in
hip-hop at the moment.
maybe even educational background, too
this shit has never mattered more in
hip-hop, precisely because so many
people would like to think that it
DOESN'T matter anymore
no, I'm not joking. it's very hard to
know how to receive people's
(adamant) opinions if you don't know
where they're coming from
Nathaniel
J.A. Brown
> I think it would be really helpful if
> everyone on here informed the ng of
> their racial, regional, and
> socioeconomic backgrounds. and the
> capacity in which they're involved in
> hip-hop at the moment.
>
> maybe even educational background, too
Chris Brown, caucasian male 18 years old.
High school graduate, first year at Washtenaw Community College.
Grew up in Ypsilanti, MI- a fairly diverse working class town.
Now live in Brighton, MI- Republican National Headquaters.
Listened to rap since a younster due mainly to my older brother.
Still searching for my place in hip-hop.
Good middle class family life. Dad works at Ford, Mom a teacher.
Good friends, decent beer, absolutely nothing to complain about,
except that I am really lazy.
Hey, maybe I could rap about that?
Naw, I'll do it later.
nfri...@haverford.edu
year-old male
high school graduate, junior at
Haverford College (tiny liberal arts
school outside of philly), paying full
tuition, majoring in philosophy and
not doing so well
grew up in chapel hill, nc (part
college town, part plantation porchish
country club, part sprawling
subdevelopment, part lowerclass
south, part cozy ivy-encrusted blip on
the map). family recently relocated to
pittsburgh, PA. one of the few cities in
america that still has combined
black/jewish neighborhoods (though
with streets marking class divides)
listened to rap on and off since the
third grade for various (intellectual)
white male reasons. have been
underground jocker for about two
years now
I battle other white kids who are too
full of themselves, freestyle for fun if
I know it's gonna be fun. piece on safe
walls, put stickers up. have a radio
show that plays a lot of underground
shit but get in trouble for being called
"vladimir and dmitri's crazy black
music show" ("crazy" as in the
positive word used in umpteen
thousand blues and r&b songs, "black
music" as in amiri baraka's book. yes,
I know it's provoking in the wrong
direction).
trade a lot of tapes, prosyletize to
make up for the fact that I actually
rarely purchase shit. watch rap city
and listen to commercial radio because
the dirty south ish makes me wanna
dance!!!!! (really)
write for triple-bypass and
truehiphop. help out anticon whenever
possible
lower-upper-middle-class family.
father biomedical academic. mother
medical reference librarian. she
respects the new coup album but
chided them for "all the profanity"
no one got mad when the yippies cursed
Nathaniel
>
> Chris Brown, caucasian male 18 years old.
> High school graduate, first year at Washtenaw Community College.
> Grew up in Ypsilanti, MI- a fairly diverse working class town.
> Now live in Brighton, MI- Republican National Headquaters.
> Listened to rap since a younster due mainly to my older brother.
> Still searching for my place in hip-hop.
> Good middle class family life. Dad works at Ford, Mom a teacher.
> Good friends, decent beer, absolutely nothing to complain about,
> except that I am really lazy.
> Hey, maybe I could rap about that?
>
> Naw, I'll do it later.
>
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
che...@hotbot.com
> white. It was all up on the ng beforehand. Plus I was explaining why
> folks are so hard on him or why they loved him to death....
>
> of course I'm with B, hip-hop was and is tied to race. I'm sure it
> doesn't make this fool feel good, but the truth hurts. Hopefully one day
> it will all make sense and he'll find it...
>
> Mr. Hyde
Are you talking about Eminem or someone on this newsgroup? Cause I
think Eminem would know that if you are referring to him.
Maseo27
>And forgive me for saying this about my peoples, but white motherfuckers
>kill a hip-hop audience. I've seen the all white crowd and I've seen the
>all black crowd and I can guarantee you which one is hype and which one
>epitomized the Donnie H. Kwak experience.
what you seen? I've seen white boys get just as amped as blacks and puerto
ricans. Stay in your own world son.
The kid that posted the review seems so bitter as hell against white people,
its obvious from the first paragraph. How anyone could stand to listen to that
prejudice fuck is beyond me. I got black friends that went to that show, and
they didnt give me such a negative review. They ALSO didnt mention the "Sea"
or white fans. That kid who posted his review should get off the "white boys
cant rap" bullshit and step into reality. A white kid can be just as ill as
anybody else in ANY hiphop forum, be it breaking, rhyming, dj'ing, etc... Get
off your shit.
Maseo
"I've only been wrong once in my life: I once thought I was wrong, but I was
mistaken."--Troy Superstar.
"Its Never Personal, you know how it is."--Me.
Kenneth Hyde
Yeah I would have expected a diss or something, but no I was referring
to another poster who got all mad because I mentioned that Eminem was
white
Mr. Hyde
Kenneth Hyde
everyone on here informed the ng of
their racial, regional, and
socioeconomic backgrounds. and the
capacity in which they're involved in
hip-hop at the moment.
maybe even educational background, too
this shit has never mattered more in
hip-hop, precisely because so many
people would like to think that it
DOESN'T matter anymore
no, I'm not joking. it's very hard to
know how to receive people's
(adamant) opinions if you don't know
where they're coming from...
Kenneth Hyde
23 year old black male of Caribbean descent (Trinidad)
born in Dorchester, MA and moved to Milton, MA (suburb just outside of
Boston city limits) as a young kid before 1st grade. At the time, it was
a mostly white town (mainly Jewish & Irish). I could probably count the
number of black students in the 5 grade elementary school on my 2
hands...
not much time passed before the town experienced White Flight, starting
on my street when we moved there. Since that time our area of the town
(right up next to the city) became more and more diverse as you had foks
from Boston moving in. It was basically 2 areas, the diverse area, and
the white area (East Milton, comprising mainly of Irish).
Basic middle class upbringing with influence from my mother's black
american side of the family as well as my father's Trini side of the
family.
Still hold that house as a permanent residence. (It's been over 15 years)...
So came up through the public school system. Good grades and the whole
thing (graduated 4th in my class from High School). Attended Brown
University for 4 years in Mechanical Engineering. Currently attend
Carnegie Mellon University in Pittsburgh for my Master's Degree in
Dynamic Systems & Vibration...
Hip-hop?? Heavy tape trader, always been heavily into the musical
aspect. Did a couple open mics. Freestyle from time to time. Used to
write lyrics, but haven't done it in a while. Don't really practice the
4 elements, but I've always been around hip-hop. I check out the scene
here in Pittsburgh when I can...
Peace
Mr. Hyde
Redeem
nfri...@haverford.edu wrote in message <77h8ge$r8q$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>
>(when I went to hear him speak,
>nelson george claimed that there are
>two kinds of appeal hip-hop hold for
>white people: either sex symbol or
>outlaw icon. claimed that all
>mainstream white acts are nothing
>more than some combination of the
>two conceits)
To me that is ignorance right there. My love for De La doesnt fall into
Symbolism or Outlaw(ism)...
Redeem..
nfri...@haverford.edu
"Redeem" <red...@dial.pipex.com> wrote:
> >(when I went to hear him speak,
> >nelson george claimed that there are
> >two kinds of appeal hip-hop hold for
> >white people: either sex symbol or
> >outlaw icon. claimed that all
> >mainstream white acts are nothing
> >more than some combination of the
> >two conceits)
>
> To me that is ignorance right there. My love for De La doesnt fall into
> Symbolism or Outlaw(ism)...
> Redeem..
seems fairly obvious to me that white people would like cutting-edge
and/or politically conscious hip-hop. as in "oooh, weird black music".
. .or "ooh, blackness I can sort of relate to". . .or the liberal's
"good for the darkies"
peace
Nathaniel
Pushermat1
anyone to know that I'm a 64 year old black woman, just straight doppin
knowledge on y'all/ y'all young folk...
PEACE
pusherman matt stondalla
Todd Ito
: (Alexander Carlton) wrote:
: > Todd Ito (ti...@email.unc.edu) wrote:
: > : to its core. And I do want to see that happen to hip-hop. That's all I
: > : meant, and you white guys need to stop being so defensive about being
: > : white. Chill.
: > : Todd
: >
: > What? You callin' me white? I'm gonna break your face... don't ever call
: > me white! What are you trying to do? Ruin my rep? Don't EVER call me
: > white!
Actually, I was calling Kingpin or whatever his name was white, because I
assumed he was, since he played that "well, if a white person said
that..." card. I take it you're joking anyway, but I thought I'd clarify.
: I think it would be really helpful if
: everyone on here informed the ng of
: their racial, regional, and
: socioeconomic backgrounds. and the
: capacity in which they're involved in
: hip-hop at the moment.
: maybe even educational background, too
It would be helpful, so here goes. I'm half-white, half-Japanese, the
white side being middle class from Danville, VA (a mill town near the NC
border), the Japanese side being third generation working class from
Gardena, CA. I was born and raised in Williamsburg, VA, where I lived in
a mostly white upper middle class neighborhood (pops is a prof at William
& Mary). I graduated in 1994 from the public high school and went to UNC
in Chapel Hill. Graduated from there in 1998 with degrees in history and
Asian Studies. I currently work as a supervisor at the graduate library
at UNC. I'm probably applying to law school next year. I have listened
to hip-hop on and off since 1988, more and more on since about 1993. As
for my involvement in hip-hop, I am a DJ at UNC's college radio station
and buy a lot of records and go to shows. That's me.
Todd
Redeem
nfri...@haverford.edu wrote in message <77u90u$men$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>In article <77tebi$2bv$1...@plug.news.pipex.net>,
> "Redeem" <red...@dial.pipex.com> wrote:
>
>> >(when I went to hear him speak,
>> >nelson george claimed that there are
>> >two kinds of appeal hip-hop hold for
>> >white people: either sex symbol or
>> >outlaw icon. claimed that all
>> >mainstream white acts are nothing
>> >more than some combination of the
>> >two conceits)
>>
>> To me that is ignorance right there. My love for De La doesnt fall into
>> Symbolism or Outlaw(ism)...
>> Redeem..
>
>
>seems fairly obvious to me that white people would like cutting-edge
>and/or politically conscious hip-hop. as in "oooh, weird black music".
>. .or "ooh, blackness I can sort of relate to". . .or the liberal's
>"good for the darkies"
>peace
>Nathaniel
Forget relating to it, what about straight up love for it.
Redeem.....
'No fortune in my account, Dont think it will ever amount'