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Last night's Eminem show.

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Donnie Kwak

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Jan 10, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/10/99
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"I hate three kinds of people," ranted Eminem in one of his acapella
"freestlyles" last night. "Girls, women, and bitches." A pale, pasty
white kid, looking like an extra from a 90210 club scene, spitting
offensively inane lyrics for shock value, calling them punchlines. And
this is the future of hip-hop.

To parapharse onelove columnist k. orr, "I was one of a handful of
colored faces in a sea of ivory." The event? An Eminem show, for all
ages, at a medium-sized venue called Tramp's on 21st Street. The place
was crowded. Hordes of white kids, I mean armies, legions, clans ... I
was blinded with whiteness every time I turned my head to survey the
room.

I was determined to come see this show. None of my friends would come
with me. The bill featured all independent/"underground" acts, which
always translates into a lot of sloppiness on stage, a lot of waiting
around, and a lot of young white kids. So I went dolo, mostly to see if
this kid Eminem is worth half the hype, if he could move the crowd,
maintain his breath control, etc. So this is how it went down:

M.F. Doom performed first, and m'fcka probably has the worst live show
of any signed act I've ever seen. Before he got on, he insisted that
the spotlight man turn the lights down, so all anybody could see during
his set was a bunch of shadows stomping around the stage. Doom's was
the quintessential wack show, from the drunkenly-slurred,
haphazardly-delivered rhymes to the 15 hangers-on he brought with him
onstage. I guess his shit is best for the crib, not for a live
audience. I have the "Dead Bent" 12-inch, and I feel it, but the shit
just didn't come off live. "Hey" came off alright, but the other four
or so cuts he performed barely illicited the feeblest of head nods.
After Doom's set, Bobbito, the show's host, said that the album is due
March 99.

Outsidaz, repping Brick City, came next. The show picked up
considerably. Young Zee was mad vocal, the loudest Outsida, and the
crew is deep ... eight heads, I think. Zee set it off with his verse
from Redman's new album over the "Who Shot Ya" beat. Then, the Outsidas
performed a couple of their own cuts, before Pacewon stormed onstage to
do his singles. Pacewon looks like a taller Phesto, and he has a lot of
energy, which was felt and returned by the audience. "I Declare War" is
that shit.

Finally, Eminem was due to perform. At this point, it's about half past
midnight. I had seen maybe thirty minutes of live performance, and over
an hour of nothing. The white kids were antsy as hell, and I was
feeling pretty impatient myself. So the Outsidaz finish their set,
and Young Zee starts to introduce Eminem from the back corner of the
stage as the rest of the crew exits. "Who wants to see Eminem," he
yells, and the loudest roar of the night is heard throughout the room.
I think Young Zee took this a bit personally, the fact that the
melanin-deficient crowd was so anxious to shoo the Outsidaz the fuck off
the stage in favor of the youngblood. So Zee says, "Who wants to see
the white boy?" And the crowd roars again. Then Zee says, "`Cause
niggas ain't fuckin' with the white boy..." Smatterings of nervous
laughter. I hear the gruffy-looking guy next to me say "Fuck you" real
quietly, like a dude that talks shit loud enough to be heard by his crew
but not his enemy. Then Zee, mocking Em's weaselly voice, starts
rapping: "Sliiim Shaady, Brain dead like Jim Brady...," before he says
"Fuck it," and breaks up laughing. For a minute, I felt like there
might be some drama.

Em's chubby deejay cames on and plays a novelty record of an academic
breaking down usage of the word "fuck." Then Eminem, clad in a white
tee-shirt, and his boy Royce took the stage and started doing some joint
I'd never heard. It was amazing, though. All around me, kids were
singing along word-for-word, like it's Rakim or something. And this is
for every single cut, even for some of Em's "freestyles." He will be a
superstar, sales-wise, that is clear.

As for Eminem's live set, I'll give him this: he has breath control, he
can rhyme, his voice is definitely unique. But, of course, that could
be said about 9 out of 10 cats with record deals. Hip-hop fans are used
to seeing performers bitch about the sound quality, and it's tiresome,
but for once, I actually wanted an artist to complain to the soundman.
The beats were too low, and Em's mic too loud. The one joint of his
that I definitely like, the new one w/ Royce on Stretch's label, came
out super lukewarm because the beat sounded like AM radio. Eminem kept
complaining that the crowd wasn't jumping enough, but audiences respond
better to thunderous bass than shouted slurs. Eminem ended up
performing about six cuts, including his verse from Shabaam Sadeeq's
track, the "My Name Is..." joint, and, of course, the lead single. He
and Royce each did two acapella rhymes, and both proved equally
offensive. Royce resembles Master P in appearance (hat, shades, gold
chain), and his subject matter is patterned after Em's: misogynstic,
super-violent, and disrespectful.

Now during Em's set, the rest of the Outsidaz were on the back corner of
the stage, and some of them were singing along to his bigger hits. But
Zee never left the stage, never dropped his mic, and I could just tell
from homeboy's body language that he was trying to steal Eminem's
shine. I kept praying that he would try to P.M. Dawn him, or herb him
or clown him someway, but it never happened. It could have been a major
blow to Em's credibility if he had been embarassed onstage, but Zee
wouldn't do it. Throughout his set, Em kept saying, "We can rhyme all
night," but he only performed for about twenty or so minutes. As he
rapped the last song of the night, "I just don't give a fuck," all the
Outsidaz and some people in the crowd leapt on stage, and Eminem was
lost in a swarm of bodies. At one point, Zee crept up behind Eminem,
pulled his shirt up and pulled it over his head, Cornholio-style. That
was the closet he came to herbing him, but he could have done so much
more. The show ended, and the crowd dispersed.

So what was learned? Nothing that I couldn't have guessed. Em is an
average MC that is now full-blown because of the rich fourteen-year-old
white boys that are his target audience. I mean white kids loved Geto
Boys and N.W.A. and all the other dark inner city groups, but let's be
real, to these kids, they're still a bunch of negros at the end of the
day. Eminem, yo .. they couldn't scientifically create a rapper that's
a better spokesman for white boy angst. Watching the white kids
gravitate to him onstage was ceratinly revealing. This kid says "nigga"
onstage before a live audience, jokes about Tupac's death, and 80% of
his lines are violently anti-women. And the crowd ate it all up. Em
will have his day, though, and soon. Zee didn't do it, but somebody
will. Eminem better watch himself, because his fame is definitely
irking people.

I'm at the train station on 23rd Street, and three white teenagers,
North-Faced-up, are standing on the platform. "Did you see his
tattoo?" "Yea, he has that cool tattoo on his forearm." "Yea, that
shit is tight." I'm thinking to myself, damn, this is the future of
hip-hop.

Steve 'Flash' Juon

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Jan 10, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/10/99
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In article <3699257B...@earthlink.net>, donni...@earthlink.net
says...

> I'm at the train station on 23rd Street, and three white teenagers,
> North-Faced-up, are standing on the platform. "Did you see his
> tattoo?" "Yea, he has that cool tattoo on his forearm." "Yea, that
> shit is tight." I'm thinking to myself, damn, this is the future of
> hip-hop.

I have to say it: I may like him on wax, but you've just made me NEVER
want to see him live in concert. That shit sounds worse than Smoking
Grooves. Fuck that. Unless Eminem was on a tour that could draw a large
black crowd; which given what you're saying is not gonna happen, I doubt
there'd even be half enough of hype reason to go. Eminem alone isn't.
And forgive me for saying this about my peoples, but white motherfuckers
kill a hip-hop audience. I've seen the all white crowd and I've seen the
all black crowd and I can guarantee you which one is hype and which one
epitomized the Donnie H. Kwak experience.

--
"Look out the window golly the sky is electric blue..." --> Andre B.
"Sony or Aiwa, black or white, I fit in all stereotypes" --> Wordsworth
Steve 'Flash' Juon --> contact dj.f...@pobox.com for e-mail
Hip-Hop Lyrics Archive --> http://www.OHHLA.com/index.htm
Suite 101's Hip-Hop --> http://suite101.com/welcome.cfm/116


Donnie Kwak

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Jan 10, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/10/99
to Wise Rebel
> >I kept praying that he would try to P.M. Dawn him, or herb him
> >or clown him someway, but it never happened.
>
> Why would you want that?

Well, understand this .. I was extremely bitter at having stood around
for two hours to see an extremely half-ass performance. So I wanted to
see some drama, plain and simple. And it's not because Em is white. If
it were El-P, or Cage, or Non-Phixion, I wouldn't have had those
thoughts. But Em had spent his entire set spitting rhyme after rhyme
about his craziness, his violent tendencies, his sexual prowess ... it
would have been dope to see somebody step up and challenge him. Not
necessarily physically, but at least engage him in some sort of
confrontation. I read the piece on him in VIBE, and the interviewer
wrote about how touchy Em is about the "white" issue. He's on that
Canibus vibe. "The only reason people want to talk to me is because of
the LL dis, but I don't want to talk about it." Yet, later on in that
VIBE piece, Em jumps to talk about hating women. "This is something I
can talk about." I just wish Zee would have battled him.

Wise Rebel

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Jan 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/11/99
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Donnie Kwak writes:

>I kept praying that he would try to P.M. Dawn him, or herb him
>or clown him someway, but it never happened.

Why would you want that?

Wise

Pushermat1

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Jan 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/11/99
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The thing about Eminem that is starting to irk me is that he is getting too big
for his britches. He's getting too big for his britches and is getting his head
gassed up so big that he just may fuck up his career before it even starts. He
has a good chance, but I think he had a better chance even two months ago when
there was more of a mystery to him.

If he's the spokesman for mouthy white boys who love hip hop then so be it. To
be honest, that was one of the things I respected about him when I first heard
Slim Shady. He's the quintessential white boy fuck up who loves hip hop but
really doesn't give a fuck about all of the bullshit that is attached to it. He
seemed like the type who really didn't give a fuck about being respected or
anything like that, he just is what he is. It's like he knew that most of the
closed minded people would try and clown him right off the bat so he said fuck
it and went for his anyway in the direction he felt fit.

BUT, he's starting to fuck up. He's starting to say the same rhymes over and
over, he's starting to piss off the people who first felt him and first pegged
him at the very least as interesting. I like that kid, but he's falling off
already before even coming out. Too many mediocre guest appearances, repeated
written freestyles and the like. Besides, no white rapper has blown up within
hip hop without first appealing to the black crowd.

Seriously, the first time I saw House of Pain (and the Beastie Boys for that
matter)the entire crowd was black and they got major love. Then as soon as they
saw the opportunity to get the alternative money, they took it. They took the
alternative tours, did rock mixes and milked that scene for everything they
could. I mean honestly, the playas and ballas out there are 'nt buying $25
t-shirts and $20 ski hats or fucking $3 sitckers even. however, put that same
group on tour with Rage or some shit and they are gonna rack up on merch sales
alone.

If Eminem doesn't come out real, he's not gonna last. He's gonna end up on some
Insane Clown Posse type shit. Those cats went platinum after years and years of
hard work, and honeslty, I think ICP makes the WoRST music ever created. i
mean, there has never been a group worse than them to me, but I'll give it up
to them on a business level. before they were ever signed, they were puling in
3,000 kids over the course of a weekend to clubs in Detroit, selling mad
shirts, hats, stickers, posters, cd's tapes, what have you and those cats were
rolling in independent money. I know this because I worked with a rock band who
shared the same manager as ICP and when they were doing their deal with Jive
this manager showed me some figures on these cats.

ICP sold 100,000 copies of their final independent cd themselves. The soundscan
showed most of those sales coming from Detroit a lone! Seriously, those fucking
humps had their business together. But as a novelty act, they will not last
much longer. Maybe as wrestlers, not as artists.

It looked like Eminem was on the right track when he released the Slim Shady EP
and put it in stores as well as using it as a demo to get signed, but he let
Aftermath pull it off the shelves too quick when he got signed. Way before he
was able to garner the true street following that he needed to establish to
acheive longevity and the like.

The kid has already done a song with Marilyn Manson. If this track comes out
before he blows up as a rapper he's finished. It's happened before and it'll
happen again. To be honest, i like Eminem and look forward to someday seeing
him perform, however, what I'm not looking forward to is the impending
onslaught of white rappers that we are going to have to endure after he comes
out. Every shit head at every label is gonna pull out the white boy he's had on
reserve in '99 in hopes of catching some of Eminems heat. Remedy will finally
come out the Wu. A whole bunch of these fools will get deals and be out with
mediocre records. NY and Cali have a gang of wack ass no voice no flow havin
white boys on their indie scenes just itching to blow up. I think it's all gona
blow up in their faces though.

If they do succeed, I think it'll trigger an even deeper seperation of the
races.

Now, don't get me wrong, there are a couple of white boys who I'm dying to hear
from. 3rd Bass is about to come back with production from Organized Noize and
all that. I'm not at all afraid to hear this record as Serch and Pete put it
the fuck down and I have a feeling that they can do it again. Solo, no,
together, I think they have a good chance. They took enough of a step back to
look at themselves, their careers and the state of hip hop that they just may
come out with some bomb ass shit. Maybe I'm just wishful thinking, but I have a
feeling that that shit just may be tight.

And maybe Serch will sit on Eminem for being a skinny white boy who has the
audacity to say nigga. I would take his mic and smack him if I heard him say
the word nigga to a crowd of white folk. Thats some seriously backwards shit.

As far as the Outsidaz go, they are down with Eminem. From what I heard Eminem
was a part of their clique. There may have been a little tension there due to
jealousy or whatever, but I'm sure they'll use Eminem and their Fugees
affiliations wisely to their advantage and blow the fuck up at some point. They
deserve it.

Enjoy Eminem while you can.

PEAVE
pusherman matt stonedalla

ZSTAR73982

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Jan 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/11/99
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I almost agree with you, HA! Not Really...Look I'm not white and to be honest I
think you wouldn't have the tanacity to say this to his face so you should curl
into a little ball and shut up...Oh yeah will everyone get over Eminem being
white already...thank you.

Jinsu-Represent hiph hop to the fullest

Sean Flynn

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Jan 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/11/99
to
On Sun, 10 Jan 1999 17:11:08 -0500, Donnie Kwak
<donni...@earthlink.net> wrote:

Hehe...Some people may want to take notes on the events of that night.
A sign of things to come???

Sean.


---
Sean Flynn sfl...@pobox.com
http://pobox.com/~sflynn/hiphop.html
Not an Ottawa U Computer Engineering Student Anymore

SCapitanPL

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Jan 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/11/99
to
A little too much racist shit was in this story (from Donnie himself) but I
don't feel like touching on it right now...

"Procrastination's like masturbation: you're fucking yourself"- Xzibit

Ultimate Dogg Pound Page (updated)
<http://members.tripod.com/~DonTeflon/DoggPound.html>
Greatest Hip Hop Beefs (revamp coming)
<http://members.tripod.com/~DonTeflon/BizBeef.html>

Fee

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Jan 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/11/99
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Steve 'Flash' Juon <dj.f...@pobox.com> wrote
>white motherfuckers kill a hip-hop audience. I've seen
>the all white crowd and I've seen the all black crowd and I
>can guarantee you which one is hype.

You don't realize how ignorant you look when you stereotype
like this. Sorry for getting PC on you and all but, jesus, your
totaly generalizing here.

Peace,
Fee

Steve 'Flash' Juon

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Jan 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/11/99
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In article <19990111034502...@ng-cr1.aol.com>,
scapi...@aol.com says...

> A little too much racist shit was in this story (from Donnie himself) but I
> don't feel like touching on it right now...

What's racist in admitting that shows where the whole audience is white
is wack? I'm white and I'll say it: wack, wack, wack. I'm not claiming
I represent any better than the next man, but at least I know what's
stupid when I see it. Too many white people who think they know what
hip-hop is trying to outcool each other leads to massive stupidity.
Most of these white patrons have never mastered the art of the cool that
their peers in hip-hop already know from years of sneaking out to shows
and hanging at the clubs. Too busy trying to show out or speak slang
instead of enjoying the acts and feeling the vibe. And Donnie is right:
if the future of hip-hop is to make it all white, I don't want it. Maybe
Eminem needs to get herbed just to serve notice that white wackness can't
bumrush hip-hop and replace the original authentic. Eminem is better
than most but he's getting overhyped and he's drawing the wrong crowd and
the kind of momentum it generates is unhealthy and not good for hip-hop.
If the show is anything as wack as what Donnie said, he should have been
herbed in a major way.

Steve 'Flash' Juon

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Jan 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/11/99
to
In article <01be3d85$8d24daa0$6500a8c0@fee>, 8afN...@qlink.queensu.ca
says...

So? I know it's generalizing and I know it's a stereotype but it's also
born out by ACTUAL EXPERIENCE. Every show I've been to that was more
than 50% white audience had the most lethargic and uninspired energy by
both the performers and the crowd. Every show I've been to that was more
than 50% black had an amped up stage performance and plenty of bouncing
around and participation by the crowd. If it's a stereotype so be it,
but in my case it's proved to be the god damned truth. :>

DJ FonkyFresh

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Jan 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/11/99
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Fee wrote:

> Steve 'Flash' Juon <dj.f...@pobox.com> wrote
> >white motherfuckers kill a hip-hop audience. I've seen
> >the all white crowd and I've seen the all black crowd and I
> >can guarantee you which one is hype.
>
> You don't realize how ignorant you look when you stereotype
> like this. Sorry for getting PC on you and all but, jesus, your
> totaly generalizing here.
>

I agree, I've been to some all white shows and they were the best thing
I've ever seen in my life!

--
-always Fonky Fresh

Atkins32

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Jan 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/11/99
to
" Unless u want to fuck me, why do you care what I look like?".........The
problem in the hip-hop games is that niggas are hatin because it's the white
artists representin the love and it's the black artist poppin crist and each
other.....look around at the so called top artists ...DMX...Jay-Z....Master
P.....wack all of um....but brothers of another color are bringin that love of
hip -hop back.....Mountain Brothers....Siah and Yeshua....7l and
Estoric...Em.....Sole......Sure Em's show might have been wack...but there is
no denying it Em has more skillz on the mic then half of the mfuckas with major
label lp's on the shelf.....To me Donny might be fearin Em cause he see's his
brothers slippin and he sees the white mc maintainin this shit......As i reread
your post i get mad as fuck.....Zee would never step to Em cause Em put him
on...ever since his ep em's been reppin the outsidaz...Zee knows his place u
don't bite the hand that puts you on....next time you go to a show bruh ...see
it for what it is Hip-Hop..not if the crowd is all white or black or if the MC
is white or black....And they wonder why racism still exists...

kenn...@email.com

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Jan 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/11/99
to

Yeshua is black.

*** Posted from RemarQ - http://www.remarq.com - Discussions Start Here (tm) ***

Donnie Kwak

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Jan 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/11/99
to


> .but brothers of another color are bringin that love of
> hip -hop back.....Mountain Brothers....Siah and Yeshua....7l and
> Estoric...Em.....Sole......

You can't throw Em in this group. Just because the aforementioned feature
non-black performers don't make them all alike. Non-black performers don't stand
together as one group against black performers. Eminem and Mountain Brothers rhyme
over beats, but that's about the only thing the two acts have in common.

> ..Zee would never step to Em cause Em put him
> on...ever since his ep em's been reppin the outsidaz...Zee knows his place u
> don't bite the hand that puts you on....

Em put Zee on? Yea, they might have some symbiotic ties, but c'mon, now. I feel
like Zee's paid dues, from the "You don't want no problems" joint to the Fugees
alubm, to Redman's last one, and he's still not bubblin' like he should be. Em is
out for what, two minutes, and he's already full-blown. (Dre is a shrewd-ass
business man, you all know that, and he knows a money artist when he sees one.) Em
may be doing a little to help the Outsidaz, but it's like when your snot-nosed
little brother blows up and tries to put you on, you never relinquish the right to
slap him around if he steps out of line. Watching Zee's behavior that night, I
just could sense that he wasn't feeling Em. So who knows, I don't know the cat,
it's just my observation.

> next time you go to a show bruh ...see
> it for what it is Hip-Hop..not if the crowd is all white or black or if the MC
> is white or black....And they wonder why racism still exists...

Trust me, son, that's never my goal when I go to a show. It's really just the
first time I've been to a show that was that homogenous, one way or another, and I
was taken aback.

Pushermat1

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Jan 12, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/12/99
to
I really didn't see Donnies post as being racist necessarly. He just seemed to
be making some observations. To me, Eminem is mad visual and should be able to
come up with a unique show. I'm sure he can because judging from is lyrics and
nothig else, he's an extremely creative indivdual, but it sounds like hes
fucking up. Fucking up too early on in his career and somebody like Dre, a
friend or a fan should say something to him and let him know that he can go
either way, all the way or down the tubes.

I'm extremely curious to see what happens with him. He's got a major chance,
and has put in mad work thus far, but he needs to watch it. Thats all I'm
saying. He needs to be a bit more calculating and stay exciting. I don't know
the cat or anything, I'm just saying all this strictly as an outside observer
who has seen simlar situations from the outside looking in. Personally, I hope
he makes it. probably will, but he bet not run around saying nigga on stage,
somebody's gonna take that real wrong unless Dre is standing directly beind him
or some shit.

BTW my boy worked on his video for "Hi My Name Is..." or whatever it's called
and said he has George Mieresant in the video and he's holding Eminem like a
ventriliquist dummy. He says the video is bugged out.

My boy wanted to make a video where George Mieresant played Stretch and Cheech
played Bobitto, which I think would have been funnier. Now that would have been
comedy.

PEACE
pusherman matt stonedalla

BSE

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Jan 12, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/12/99
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Steve 'Flash' Juon wrote:
>
> In article <3699257B...@earthlink.net>, donni...@earthlink.net
> says...
> > I'm at the train station on 23rd Street, and three white teenagers,
> > North-Faced-up, are standing on the platform. "Did you see his
> > tattoo?" "Yea, he has that cool tattoo on his forearm." "Yea, that
> > shit is tight." I'm thinking to myself, damn, this is the future of
> > hip-hop.
>
> I have to say it: I may like him on wax, but you've just made me NEVER
> want to see him live in concert. That shit sounds worse than Smoking
> Grooves. Fuck that. Unless Eminem was on a tour that could draw a large
> black crowd; which given what you're saying is not gonna happen, I doubt
> there'd even be half enough of hype reason to go. Eminem alone isn't.
> And forgive me for saying this about my peoples, but white motherfuckers

> kill a hip-hop audience. I've seen the all white crowd and I've seen the
> all black crowd and I can guarantee you which one is hype and which one
> epitomized the Donnie H. Kwak experience.

:) funny shit.

Ive never been to a show like that. The only shows where there are heavy
numbers of white people there are also white girls, lots of them. I dont
think white girls would go to Eminem concerts, they are genreally
smarter than white boys :)

Wise wrote somethign like:

>Why would you want someone to Herb him?

Id fuck him up if he realy means all that anti women shit, and if he
says nigga all the time on stage i know a lot of people who would fuck
him up.

Dissliking eminem can not be put down to "no whites in hip hop" its more
like "enough of the over the top dickheadness".

And surely someone should beat him up for being a cross between Adrock
and the Chipmunks?

BSE


----BSE----------------------------------------

"I love hip-hop.
Just so happens a lot of people who get
called "hip-hop" don't love it that much" - Spirit68
__________________BSE hip hop__________________
_____________ http://www.bseuk.com ____________


WegnerWils

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Jan 12, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/12/99
to
>>Why would you want someone to Herb him?
>
>Id fuck him up if he realy means all that anti women shit,

right....


and if he
>says nigga all the time on stage i know a lot of people who would fuck
>him up.

right....

>Dissliking eminem can not be put down to "no whites in hip hop" its more
>like "enough of the over the top dickheadness".

exactly!...i'm gonna rape this bitch and that bitch...blah blah blah....lame!

>And surely someone should beat him up for >being a cross between Adrock
>and the Chipmunks?

now thats sum funny shit.....


boy, the trenches be rough,
ive looked side to side
and i dont recall seein you at all........
chuck d/ public enemy

ba...@home.com

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Jan 12, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/12/99
to
In article <PHwm2.3118$h5.40456104@WReNphoon1>,
kenn...@email.com wrote:
>
> Yeshua is black.

Nope, I believe he's Colombian. He responded to a question or a comment
about his race to the editor of a magazine I was writing for. Maybe your
message will even get a response from Yeshua himself.


One Love,
Terry Malko

'A rich man is one with knowledge, happiness and his health'
--Com

-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own

Pushermat1

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Jan 12, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/12/99
to
Did anybody else happen to see the Eminem show @ Tramps? Tony? Were you there
by any chance? I'm wondering, I'd like to read some other folks observations
from the show.

PEACE
pusherman matt stonedalla

= k O e N s =

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Jan 12, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/12/99
to

Steve 'Flash' Juon <dj.flas...@pobox.com> wrote in article


Eminem alone isn't.
> And forgive me for saying this about my peoples, but white motherfuckers
> kill a hip-hop audience.

no, no, no! try hard motherfuckers kill shows, true b-boys of any colour
represent real hip hop...........

I've seen the all white crowd and I've seen the
> all black crowd and I can guarantee you which one is hype and which one
> epitomized the Donnie H. Kwak experience.

and I can tell you a mixed crowd of all races and creeds, that is totally
into the music is the hypest crowd of all!
--
=kOeNs=

"I'ma addict for sneakers, twenties of buddah and bitches with beepers..."
--- NAS


Kingpin97

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Jan 12, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/12/99
to
<<<And Donnie is right:
if the future of hip-hop is to make it all white, I don't want it.>>>

Imagine saying that about any other race. Imagine a person of another race
saying that about their race!!!! Lol, morons like you make me sick.

Akiem Allah

unread,
Jan 12, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/12/99
to
now you see why I have to "smack them back"

BSE wrote:
>
> Steve 'Flash' Juon wrote:
> >
> > In article <3699257B...@earthlink.net>, donni...@earthlink.net
> > says...

> > > I'm at the train station on 23rd Street, and three white teenagers,
> > > North-Faced-up, are standing on the platform. "Did you see his
> > > tattoo?" "Yea, he has that cool tattoo on his forearm." "Yea, that
> > > shit is tight." I'm thinking to myself, damn, this is the future of
> > > hip-hop.
> >

> > I have to say it: I may like him on wax, but you've just made me NEVER
> > want to see him live in concert. That shit sounds worse than Smoking
> > Grooves. Fuck that. Unless Eminem was on a tour that could draw a large
> > black crowd; which given what you're saying is not gonna happen, I doubt

> > there'd even be half enough of hype reason to go. Eminem alone isn't.


> > And forgive me for saying this about my peoples, but white motherfuckers

> > kill a hip-hop audience. I've seen the all white crowd and I've seen the


> > all black crowd and I can guarantee you which one is hype and which one
> > epitomized the Donnie H. Kwak experience.
>

> :) funny shit.
>
> Ive never been to a show like that. The only shows where there are heavy
> numbers of white people there are also white girls, lots of them. I dont
> think white girls would go to Eminem concerts, they are genreally
> smarter than white boys :)
>
> Wise wrote somethign like:
>

> >Why would you want someone to Herb him?
>

> Id fuck him up if he realy means all that anti women shit, and if he


> says nigga all the time on stage i know a lot of people who would fuck
> him up.
>

> Dissliking eminem can not be put down to "no whites in hip hop" its more
> like "enough of the over the top dickheadness".
>

> And surely someone should beat him up for being a cross between Adrock
> and the Chipmunks?
>

> BSE
>
> ----BSE----------------------------------------
>
> "I love hip-hop.
> Just so happens a lot of people who get
> called "hip-hop" don't love it that much" - Spirit68
> __________________BSE hip hop__________________
> _____________ http://www.bseuk.com ____________

--
"Traveling the Universe is hard work"
----***'
/\ |
| mailto:7...@micranots.com
\|/ http://www.micranots.com
AKIEM ALLAH--*)7--ELISRA http://www.micranots.com
/|\ http://www.micranots.com
| http://www.micranots.com

U.V.S.- M I C R A N O T S - B L A C K L O T U S

Akiem Allah

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Jan 12, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/12/99
to
DJ FonkyFresh wrote:
>
> Fee wrote:
>
> > Steve 'Flash' Juon <dj.f...@pobox.com> wrote
> > >white motherfuckers kill a hip-hop audience. I've seen
> > >the all white crowd and I've seen the all black crowd and I
> > >can guarantee you which one is hype.
> >
> > You don't realize how ignorant you look when you stereotype
> > like this. Sorry for getting PC on you and all but, jesus, your
> > totaly generalizing here.
> >
>
> I agree, I've been to some all white shows and they were the best thing
> I've ever seen in my life!
>
> --
> -always Fonky Fresh

Raves dont count dumb ass

Mike Burke

unread,
Jan 12, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/12/99
to
DJ FonkyFresh wrote in message <369A69E0...@hotmail.com>...

>
>I agree, I've been to some all white shows and they were the best thing
>I've ever seen in my life!
>


I bet those hoods get really hot after a while though, huh?

--

"As hard as it is to be perfect, I try"
T-Mo

Mike Burke

Christopher Gray

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Jan 12, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/12/99
to
My website:CEENOTE's SPOT-Da Website "Whether you battle me or not, I'm pro-choice...like abortions"-Me

jason dexter graham

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Jan 12, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/12/99
to

i do! black people should be banned from hip hop!
eminem forever!
black hip hoppers never!
(except for dr dre cause eminem is gonna be on his new record!)


ps. no but seriously my boy, who never goes to hip hop shows (ca ya blame
him they almost always suck) went to that show and he is WHITE! WHOA!

pps. yeah eminem is in my sig but it's cause i skate so it's, you know,
appropriate...man...i skate with 'skam' sometimes, am i cool or what!!!!!

peace...stay up

JDG


"i came in the diner with skateboarders
and placed orders
ate hors d'oevres
and hit the waiter with platewarmers"

jason dexter graham

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Jan 12, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/12/99
to

i know, like one time i went to a billy joel show and it was wack
cause most of the people in the audience were jews

JDG


"i came in the diner with skateboarders
and placed orders
ate hors d'oevres
and hit the waiter with platewarmers"

On Mon, 11 Jan 1999, Steve 'Flash' Juon wrote:

> In article <01be3d85$8d24daa0$6500a8c0@fee>, 8afN...@qlink.queensu.ca
> says...

> > Steve 'Flash' Juon <dj.f...@pobox.com> wrote
> > >white motherfuckers kill a hip-hop audience. I've seen
> > >the all white crowd and I've seen the all black crowd and I
> > >can guarantee you which one is hype.
> >
> > You don't realize how ignorant you look when you stereotype
> > like this. Sorry for getting PC on you and all but, jesus, your
> > totaly generalizing here.
>

Christopher Gray

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Jan 12, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/12/99
to

X jiga x

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Jan 12, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/12/99
to
DJ. Flash wrote:---------------------------------->---- I know it's

generalizing and I know it's a stereotype but it's also
>born out by ACTUAL EXPERIENCE. Every show I've been to that was more
>than 50% white audience had the most lethargic and uninspired energy by
>both the performers and the crowd. Every show I've been to that was more
>than 50% black had an amped up stage performance and plenty of bouncing
>around and participation by the crowd. If it's a stereotype so be it,
>but in my case it's proved to be the god damned truth. :>
>
I dont want to stereotype or anything , but I have noticed that everytime
someone gets robbed its usually by a black person
I have also noticed that everytime my hubcaps get robbed, a Peurto Rican did it
I know this is generalizing, but its the god damn truth

"Swingin' through, is your friendly neighborhood lush"

Xzibit

or...@weiss.che.utexas.edu

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Jan 12, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/12/99
to
In article <3699257B...@earthlink.net>,
Donnie Kwak <donni...@earthlink.net> wrote:

> To parapharse onelove columnist k. orr, "I was one of a handful of
> colored faces in a sea of ivory." The event?

And just to bring this one incident into light, I was at
Freestyle Fellowship show when I said that. I reposted the
original to Davey D's website, and the pro-white hip hop
head backlash to this article was much more.


> I was determined to come see this show. None of my friends would come
> with me.

Again, I understand your hunger. I would probably go check
it out, and I only like one of Em's songs. (But then again,
I do sit through a lot of wack shows to hear my jam).

Why wouldn't your friends go?
Why were you so determined?

At Davey's site, the reaction was that you were going to
the show with your mind already made up.

The bill featured all independent/"underground" acts, which
> always translates into a lot of sloppiness on stage, a lot of waiting
> around, and a lot of young white kids.

No Doubt.

> So Zee says, "Who wants to see
> the white boy?" And the crowd roars again. Then Zee says, "`Cause
> niggas ain't fuckin' with the white boy..." Smatterings of nervous
> laughter.

Isn't M&M down with the Outsidaz?

> Em's chubby deejay cames on and plays a novelty record of an academic
> breaking down usage of the word "fuck." Then Eminem, clad in a white
> tee-shirt, and his boy Royce took the stage and started doing some joint
> I'd never heard. It was amazing, though. All around me, kids were
> singing along word-for-word, like it's Rakim or something. And this is
> for every single cut, even for some of Em's "freestyles." He will be a
> superstar, sales-wise, that is clear.

Am I the only one bothered by the fanaticism that this implies?

> So what was learned? Nothing that I couldn't have guessed.
> Eminem, yo .. they couldn't scientifically create a rapper that's
> a better spokesman for white boy angst.

What makes him that much better (as the poster boy) than El-P?
Is it the shock raps?

> I'm at the train station on 23rd Street, and three white teenagers,
> North-Faced-up, are standing on the platform. "Did you see his
> tattoo?" "Yea, he has that cool tattoo on his forearm." "Yea, that
> shit is tight." I'm thinking to myself, damn, this is the future of
> hip-hop.

I thought I was the only who got this.
Could you break it down.

peace
k. orr

Richard D. Allen

unread,
Jan 12, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/12/99
to
Zee is Eminem's boy, though, right? So don't you think he was just
fucking with him for fun? I mean, if you have a popular friend in high
school or something, you may give him shit about it but you don't hate
him, you just hate the undeserved attention he gets.

Although, given that they're part of the same crew, it would have
been interesting to see something jump off between them just to see how
the rest of the Outsidaz would have handled the matter.

Anyway, that was a good review, I can see exactly where you're
coming from, although you seem to be itching to blame Eminem for having
meathead fans. I mean, you keep calling him pale and pasty. He's white -
should he lay out on the beach in a thong? Anyway, you hit the nail on the
head when you said Eminem taps into white boy angst, although angst isn't
really the word for it. There's a specific desire to shock, crossed with a
specific sick sense of humor, present in Eminem's music that is very
emblematic of the bored white rebellious teen experience. I'm sure there
are some heads on here who don't really like, say, Juvenile, but being
from N.O. or the South in general they feel him on things that he says.
I'm in the position of not really being a huge fan of Eminem, but I
find myself feeling him and his sense of humor because it's aimed right at
me and my background. This is why the North Face crew is babbling about
his tattoo - they probably feel somehow gratified that Eminem is
"speaking" to them.

Anyway, you're right, he'll be big. I'm not sure I care. But I was
surprised to see that in Spin they said he was from the "ghettos" of
Detroit. I always thought he was from the suburbs, and I think he's got to
at least keep it real and admit that. Look what happened to our boy Robby
van Winkle...


--

Richard Allen

aug...@email.unc.edu


Christopher Gray

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Jan 12, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/12/99
to

STRATEGY3

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Jan 12, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/12/99
to

>DJ FonkyFresh wrote:

>> I agree, I've been to some all white shows and they were the best thing
>> I've ever seen in my life!

Look, Streisand's good okay, but let's not get carried away..............

STRATEGY

wta...@midway.uchicago.edu

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Jan 12, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/12/99
to
In article <369AE497...@bellsouth.net>,

Akiem Allah <"-NOSPAM- akiem7"@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> DJ FonkyFresh wrote:
> >
> > I agree, I've been to some all white shows and they were the best thing
> > I've ever seen in my life!
> >
> > --
> > -always Fonky Fresh
>
> Raves dont count dumb ass
>

hee hee

damn akiem, you were slumping for a minute, but you're killing it again
lately. i guess just need some morons in this group to raise your ire and get
the funny bone working again.

...nesta...
____________________________________________________
Most of you can't understand what I am saying to you
Even in my human form the message I'm relaying

One good thing about music
When it hits you feel no pain
_____________________________________________________

Alexander Carlton

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Jan 12, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/12/99
to
Steve 'Flash' Juon (dj.flas...@pobox.com) wrote:
: What's racist in admitting that shows where the whole audience is white
: is wack? I'm white and I'll say it: wack, wack, wack.

Not always correct Flash. I went to a show in Santa Cruz, almost all the
heads were white, yet represented like no tomorrow. There was b-boys, a
couple of Freestylers (I was considering taking on this white cat who
called himself Top Ramen, mainly cuz I could dis his name twenty ways
until tomorrow). It was live. Goodie Mob / Parental Advisory /
Witchdoctor...

: stupid when I see it. Too many white people who think they know what
: hip-hop is trying to outcool each other leads to massive stupidity.

I'll quote the living legends here:
"What are you too tough to have fun? Frisked at the door so I know it's
not the gun in your waistline that got you shooting daggers at my face
when I rhyme...."

Alex Carlton
Advocates International
"I'm Slick like Exxon, Better in a Car than Techron"
(c)1999, Advocates International
All Rights Reversed.

Von tripps

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Jan 12, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/12/99
to
>So? I know it's generalizing and I know it's a stereotype but it's also
>born out by ACTUAL EXPERIENCE. Every show I've been to that was more
>than 50% white audience had the most lethargic and uninspired energy by
>both the performers and the crowd. Every show I've been to that was more
>than 50% black had an amped up stage performance and plenty of bouncing
>around and participation by the crowd. If it's a stereotype so be it,
>but in my case it's proved to be the god damned truth. :>
>
>

I don't know what or where you go for shows. But I as Black Male American have
been to rock, rap , ska, hardcore, even country. And I will disagree with you.
Plenty of rock shows I've been to have been more jumping than some rap shows.
Sometimes it depends on the venue or the crowd or the artists. But I have
never seen race play a part. Sometimes the show, the music, or the crowd
(regardless of race) just sucks. Some of the best shows (as far as the crowd
goes) have been ska shows with a mostly white crowd. So can I make the
arguement that White crowds are better?


Von Tripps

Steve 'Flash' Juon

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Jan 12, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/12/99
to
In article <19990112174455...@ng104.aol.com>,
vont...@aol.com says...

> So can I make the arguement that White crowds are better?

Sure. That's your experience. Donnie was talking about his, I'm talking
about mine, you talk about yours. There's no reason for us to have all
had the same experience. And for the record, the wackest concert I ever
went to was Smashing Pumpkins. I got in FREE and I still wanted my money
back afterwards.

--
"Rap ain't about bustin caps and fuckin bitches
It's about fluency with rhymin ingenuity" -> Del the Funky Homosapien

Spirit68

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Jan 12, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/12/99
to
> Eminem better watch himself, because his fame is definitely
>irking people.
>

Who gives a fuck? I'm sorry, but if player hater had a textbook definition, the
above would fit. What the hell? "his fame is definitely irking people"??? Why
do you give a damn? Hip-hop continues regardless of how many people release
records, how many record labels are started or fail, or how many million dollar
videos get made. Eminem can't destroy hip-hop and he certainly isn't adding
anything worse than what has been presented. You say his lyrics are misogynist.
Okay, point taken. That's one of the main reasons I really don't give a damn
about 90% of most records being released (the lyrics annoy me in one way or
another, misogyny being a pet peeve of mine). He joins the crowd of a million
more misogynist emcees. You said he had good breath control, a decent stage
show, and so on. You say MF Doom did not have all of the above. Neither does a
lot of other so-called emcees. So, Eminem is at least a notch above those type
of cats, on a technical level. I don't know. I think you are missing the nature
of the threat. If anything, Eminem is a symptom of a larger disease: a hip-hop
music industry that promotes misogyny and general nonsense in lyricism...

Peace,

Spirit
Spread Love/Amphibians

The Amphibians' debut single "Lettuce (Entertain You)" b/w "Journey" is
available NOW, on vinyl ($5) and cassettes ($3), add $2 for shipping tapes, $3
for shipping vinyl. E-mail me for more details...

Spirit68

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Jan 12, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/12/99
to
>I dont want to stereotype or anything , but I have noticed that everytime
>someone gets robbed its usually by a black person

EVERY time someone gets robbed? Your sarcasm isn;t working here. Flash is
honestly saying what his experience is with white crowds in hip-hop. You are
not saying "everyone I know, when robbed, was robbed by a black person".
Further, statistically since black people are less than 15% of the US
population, it's highly illogical to assume every thief is black. But I'm
overanalyzing your attempt at sarcasm. My point is, by trying to make fun of
what Flash said, you took it what out of bounds beyond what his words alone
implied.

Steve 'Flash' Juon

unread,
Jan 12, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/12/99
to
In article <19990112182451...@ng-fu1.aol.com>,
spir...@aol.com says...

> EVERY time someone gets robbed? Your sarcasm isn;t working here. Flash is
> honestly saying what his experience is with white crowds in hip-hop. You are
> not saying "everyone I know, when robbed, was robbed by a black person".
> Further, statistically since black people are less than 15% of the US
> population, it's highly illogical to assume every thief is black. But I'm
> overanalyzing your attempt at sarcasm. My point is, by trying to make fun of
> what Flash said, you took it what out of bounds beyond what his words alone
> implied.

Damn, and to think I just called you out on the Prodigy thread.
Sometimes Alan, you really confuse me. I don't know whether you are
trying to clown on people for their opinions or whether you actually
respect what people have to say. Youse kinda confusing.

Spirit68

unread,
Jan 12, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/12/99
to
I think everyone's nuts. I actually spoke to Eminem after a show and he seems
like a regular hip-hop kid to me. I think his album will do reasonably well and
he'll have a decent career. I don't really understand all the animosity towards
the kid in here. He does written freestyles on the radio; so do 90% of the
emcees I know (including NG favs like Organized Konfusion). He said "nigga" on
stage according to Donnie, which I have problems with from a political
standpoint. However, as an emcee, I think he's raised in the tradition of
classic Ice Cube: misogynist, humorous (yes, Cube used to be funny, mostly in
the album skits...wonder what happened?), et cetera. It's a bunch of violent
braggadocio, what hip-hop needs less of, but of all of his peers, I think Em
does it pretty well.

I probably won't buy Em's album, probably for the same reason I didn't buy
Redman's album. That reason being I don't think Eminem has anything to say to
me. I've outgrown punchline rap. I just don't think the cat deserves to be
slammed, at least not more than anybody else out there with shock tactic
punchlines (think Big L).

Spirit68

unread,
Jan 12, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/12/99
to
>The
>problem in the hip-hop games is that niggas are hatin because it's the white
>artists representin the love and it's the black artist poppin crist and each
>other.

You can put the brakes on that bullshit right now, turn the car around, and go
home. There are plenty of black emcees doing it for the love and if you don't
know, you need to hit up Sandbox. J-Live, Aceyalone, Pharaoh Monch, and Black
Thought can destroy all of the emcees you listed below.

>Mountain Brothers....Siah and Yeshua....7l and
>Estoric...Em.....Sole

Don't make it racial, my friend. If you feel one cat was prejudiced, respond
with reason.

Spirit68

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Jan 12, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/12/99
to
>Zee would never step to Em cause Em put him
>on...

WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, WRONG.

I heard Young Zee way back in 94, when the Outsidaz were signed to Perspective.
Get your facts right.

Steve 'Flash' Juon

unread,
Jan 12, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/12/99
to
In article <19990112220402...@ng128.aol.com>,
spir...@aol.com says...
> >wrong wrong wrong ....em was originally set to do an album with the outsidaz
> >..but he blew up...Zee might have been on since 94 but Em is the bigger emcee
>
> I addressed this via e-mail, but I thought I'd mention here for anyone who was
> misled. The Outsidaz had a rep before anyone ever heard of Eminem. Like I said
> before, I remember hearing the Outsidaz in 94. The Outsidaz were featured on
> "The Score", the biggest selling album in hip-hop history, if memory doesn't
> fail me (what, 17 million copies?). So, it's funny to me that someone thinks
> Eminem "put them on". If Eminem died tomorrow, the Outsidaz would be just fine.

When he's right, he's right.
The first time I ever heard of Pace Won or Young Zee was on The Fugees
cut "Cowboys". I thought they were pretty fresh at the time. It was
also my first exposure to Rah Digga - which is why I thought she was a
member of RefugeeCamp or the Outsidaz when she said "I used to roll with
another crew but they weed sucked" on a Flipmode Squad song.

Peace, Flash

= k O e N s =

unread,
Jan 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/13/99
to

Akiem Allah <"-NOSPAM- akiem7"@bellsouth.net> wrote in article
<369AE497...@bellsouth.net>...

> > I agree, I've been to some all white shows and they were the best thing
> > I've ever seen in my life!
> >
> > --
> > -always Fonky Fresh
>
> Raves dont count dumb ass
>

wow Akiem, I didn't know Craze was a rave dj, he hides it really well the
way he plays hip hop and cuts it up and beat juggles and the way the
breakers make a circle to his beats, and here i was thinking he was hip
hop, but obviously as it was a predominantly white crowd it must have been
a rave!

peace

= k O e N s =

Akiem Allah

unread,
Jan 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/13/99
to
= k O e N s = wrote:
>
> Akiem Allah <"-NOSPAM- akiem7"@bellsouth.net> wrote in article
> <369AE497...@bellsouth.net>...
>
> > > I agree, I've been to some all white shows and they were the best thing
> > > I've ever seen in my life!
> > >
> > > --
> > > -always Fonky Fresh
> >
> > Raves dont count dumb ass
> >
>
> wow Akiem, I didn't know Craze was a rave dj, he hides it really well the
> way he plays hip hop and cuts it up and beat juggles and the way the
> breakers make a circle to his beats, and here i was thinking he was hip
> hop, but obviously as it was a predominantly white crowd it must have been
> a rave!
>
> peace

Actually, Third World Citizens (Craze's ATL crew) do some
nice Raves, so I hear. But Raves wouldnt really count in a
*Hip-Hop* discussion, would they? I assume he is talking
about a Rave, reason being is that in ATL even the most
obscure white boy Hip-Hop act will bring out a number of
Black folks. A Rave is a different story. Now why dont you
ask mr. honky fresh if he was talking about a Rave or a
Hip-Hop function?

FunkyStyle

unread,
Jan 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/13/99
to
>and I can tell you a mixed crowd of all races and creeds, that is totally
>into the music is the hypest crowd of all!
>--

I agree...if you're feelin it, you're feelin it, you know? Flash, I don't know
how you can make these rediculous generalizations about skin color regarding
shows. If there's a show that people are feeling and vibin off of, then that
is what makes the show hype. Your statement was almost as rediculous as Mr.
Kwak's entire post. He obviously ha