i finally heard Mos def and...
Tony1er
everything. not true. i like a few things here and there. anyway, I purposely
avoided the mos def album cause I had a feeling what it would be like. I was
kind of right. here's how I see the mos def album: a mix between lauryn hill's
album and Outkast's last album with a total "I am hip hop hear me roar" feel to
it. mos def is a dope mc. his voice is dope, his delivery is energized (and
gets rather grating half way through this album) and he can sing well too. I
can't front, i've slept on his skills as far as content goes but he actually
has that in his arsenal too. SO what's my problem with this album? The beats?
sure, why not. while some of the beats are dope a bunch are just boring to me.
very formulaic and predictable. he thing is very few are really straight up
wack. but very few can hold my fleeting interest for more then half a song. I
think mos def kind of tried to do what outkast did at times and fell short.
that song he sings on is like poormans version of "liberation" on the outcast
album. he sounds like he's trying to hard to sound like gil scott heron and it
doesn't work to me.
he sings alot to and I actually like it but eventually, after five cuts ina
row of him moaning at the beginning of every track, I'm like "yo, how bout a
good old battle verse for a change?" or even a "universal magnetic" kind of
verse. much like common, I think mos def needs to return to what made him the
sweated mc he is now :thoughtful battle rhymes (in common's case) or thoughtful
party rhymes (in mos' case).
I'm all for "life rhymes" but every now and then you gotta throw in asome shit
that isn't like a life lesson. Actually, he does do that ona few cuts but it's
not how it used to be. it's more like a munufactured by rawkus feeling then a
raw hyped feeling.
well, anyway, I know everyone on here totally disagrees with me here but hey, I
hate the roots too so fuck yourself. :)
later tony
Pushermat1
to say things that need to be said. I am all for Mos Def, and I like his album
quite a lot, but I still haven't bought it as I know I won't listen to it like
I would listen to something that just rocks me. I am sick of the life songs as
well. Not totally, cuz I love it when an emcee can get introspective or just
come out and totally reveal something personal that I can relate to or
whatever, but whole albums of that get old.
I haven't put in the Lauryn album since it came out.
I love that you said you hate the Roots as well. While I don't hate them, they
do bore me terribly at this point and all that holier than though shit can find
it's way up the poop chute of everything "hip hop" that they rally against. I
hate those fucking keyboards too. Thats what I hate the most about them. They
need to add a couple players to spice up the sound a bit. Rahzel can't do it
all. Maybe he can, but come on now, get a horn or some shit man. I am soo
fucking tired of that constant doo doo doo keyboard on every song. By "doo" I
mean the sound, not like doo doo.
I'll give it up to the Roots for making some quality shit, but I have seen them
like 7 times and they did the same shit almost every time.
Gotta give it up to Tony though!!!
PEACE
pusherman matt stonedalla
Rane of Terror
on by people in here.
to me, mos def is an average emcee. i heard all this banging shit about his
album and then i heard it. nothing exciting or great. i wouldnt put him down
though, he doing his thing.
"Don't hate the playa OR the game babes, just hate the way I play it"-yours
truly
"If I got twenty, my brother get ten"-Method Man
Jamtown2
>album and Outkast's last album with a total "I am hip hop hear me roar" feel
>to
>it.
what the fuck are you talking about??? what planet are you from comparing mos
def to lauren & outkast....*nothing in common* get a grip!!!!
marie
Jamtown2
>album and then i heard it. nothing exciting or great. i wouldnt put him down
>though, he doing his thing.
so who do you like?
marie
JSH
Rane of Terror wrote in message
<19991109175043...@ng-cn1.aol.com>...
>to me, mos def is an average emcee. i heard all this banging shit about his
>album and then i heard it. nothing exciting or great. i wouldnt put him
down
>though, he doing his thing.
Mos Def's album was a great start to solo-career that will probably give us
some classic albums. Mos Def's next album, in my opinion, will be even
better than the one he dropped now, because this guy has got talent!
I've grown tired of some of the tracks already, however, I still think
that album is still up in the top 5 for 99.
Tony1er
marie
I'm from earth. I have a grip. a tight one at that.is that a diss to compare
mos def to lauryn hill and outkast? I mean, I'm not the biggest l-boogie fan
but she's not wack. And outkast is dope as hell. And when I compare them I
don't mean by beat style or rhyme styles, I'm speaking simply on the vibe I get
from it. all three are introspective heads (with big boi excluded). they are
like the leaders of the new style of rap. common, mos def, outkast, lauryn,
cee-lo and kwlei are all in the same boat to me. they are all totally different
and they are all dope (some much better the others) but they all are saying
similar things. they are all positive and rap about personal shit. sure, mos
def is more a "hooray for hip hop" type then say cee-lo but when it comes down
to it they are all very similar.
later tony
Todd Ito
:>to me, mos def is an average emcee. i heard all this banging shit about his
:>album and then i heard it. nothing exciting or great. i wouldnt put him down
:>though, he doing his thing.
: so who do you like?
why do fools always ask this question when someone says they don't like a
particular artist? if someone doesn't like mos def's album, they have to
have terrible taste? that's absurd. and i totally feel tony on the
lauryn hill/outkast comparison. not the outkast as much, but definitely
lauryn hill. i was listening to mos def the other day, and he says "black
people" like every other song on the album. i get the feeling with him
and lauryn (and common and the roots...) that they're uncomfortable with
the fact that their audience is overwhelmingly white. maybe not
uncomfortable, but just disappointed that their own people don't seem to
be feeling them. and so they come out trying to be super-black or
something. and, of course, part of it is just honest interest in
african-american culture, too. but, you can't discount the former reason.
todd
B. David Harrison
>
> why do fools always ask this question when someone says they don't like a
> particular artist? if someone doesn't like mos def's album, they have to
But in Tony's case it's a pretty valid question. I know he doesn't like
a lot of stuff. But I can only think of MF Doom, Tim Dog, and Aseop as
people he's propped and he's not serious about Tim Dog. I haven no
problem with negativity, but I don't think it's unreasonable to wonder
what Tony actually does dig.
B. David Harrison Anti-Knuckleheadosity:Last Updated 11/08/1999
Live from Seattle http://members.xoom.com/bdharris
to reply, spell "warshinton" like you're not from the sticks
"How else am I to get you to treat me like a man of weight and
substance unless I act as morally perturbed and angst-ridden as
everyone else in this room?" -The Beast
"This ain't no time when the usual is suitable" -Mos Def
KSG
Todd Ito wrote:
> and i totally feel tony on the
> lauryn hill/outkast comparison. not the outkast as much, but definitely
> lauryn hill. i was listening to mos def the other day, and he says "black
> people" like every other song on the album. i get the feeling with him
> and lauryn (and common and the roots...) that they're uncomfortable with
> the fact that their audience is overwhelmingly white. maybe not
> uncomfortable, but just disappointed that their own people don't seem to
> be feeling them. and so they come out trying to be super-black or
> something. and, of course, part of it is just honest interest in
> african-american culture, too. but, you can't discount the former reason.
Why can't you discount the former reasons? There were pro-black rappers that
predate Yo! MTV Raps.
BDP and PE went from relatively non-conscious MCs to very pro-black within the
span of a couple of albums with, I suspect, predominately black fans.
As far as I can tell there is no evidence that any of these artists are super
pro-black in response to their own people not feeling them. They may notice the
phenemona, but I don't attach ulterior motives to their lyrical content.
--
Peace,
KSG
Droppin' Science in REAL AUDIO on KSDT Sundays 8pm-10pm (PST)
ARCHIVED SHOWS: http://scw.ucsd.edu/droppinscience
Personal: http://www.cs.ucsd.edu/~kgatlin
KSG
Todd Ito wrote:
> and i totally feel tony on the
> lauryn hill/outkast comparison. not the outkast as much, but definitely
> lauryn hill. i was listening to mos def the other day, and he says "black
> people" like every other song on the album. i get the feeling with him
> and lauryn (and common and the roots...) that they're uncomfortable with
> the fact that their audience is overwhelmingly white.
And the first point I was going to make (which I forgot to make in the first post)
was that the Fugees (and Lauryn) were very pro-black on "Blunted on Reality".
This was before they had any white fans... or black fans for that matter. It
seems that these artists were saying "Black people" in songs prior to realizing
what their audience base was...
It seems to me that you maybe confusing correlation with causation.
Todd Ito
: all three are introspective heads (with big boi excluded). they are
: like the leaders of the new style of rap. common, mos def, outkast, lauryn,
: cee-lo and kwlei are all in the same boat to me. they are all totally different
: and they are all dope (some much better the others) but they all are saying
: similar things. they are all positive and rap about personal shit. sure, mos
: def is more a "hooray for hip hop" type then say cee-lo but when it comes down
: to it they are all very similar.
where do you see your boy slug fitting in to that? he's not as positive
or spiritual as a cee-lo or mos def, but he's definitely introspective and
sometimes on the "hooray for hip hop" kinda vibe, too. i guess the
difference would be that a) he's not black, and thus, does not kick rhymes
for the united "black people" and b) he doesn't sing. i don't know,
though, i think he's definitely indebted to common for some of his
personal, conversational style. but, i suppose, his whiteness (and native
americanness?) keeps him from being lumped in with those other cats. and
he's not on a major label or down with that crew. anyway...
todd
T. Tauri
> BDP and PE went from relatively non-conscious MCs to very pro-black
> within the span of a couple of albums with, I suspect, predominately
> black fans.
Well, I remember an interview with Chuck a long time back where he said
that the audience in the *Bum Rush the Show* days was weighted towards
white frat boys and such.
Peece,
T. Tauri
T. Tauri
>
> SO what's my problem with this album? The beats? sure, why not. while
> some of the beats are dope a bunch are just boring to me. very
> formulaic and predictable. he thing is very few are really straight up
> wack. but very few can hold my fleeting interest for more then half a
> song.
My theory is that this was so much Mos' project that the producers he
used didn't really have the kind of pull to say, "hey Mos, let's go back
and work on that beat some more"; or alternatively, the experience to
know they should've said it (Primo probably just threw out something
lying around).
This album had me thinking a bunch about the waning of equal say for the
DJ/producer--I mean, I figure that No ID could pull rank on Com pretty
comfortably if he wasn't happy with a beat, or Marley could on Big Daddy
Kane (would Kane ever even have tried to make the final call about one
of Marley's beats?). I don't imagine the dynamic with this album--like
so many today--would've supported that. The journeyman producer simply
doesn't have the same kind of responsibility to the product.
But I must say, Tony, you've been a lot more forgiving to Slug, whose
beats are worse (though that Mos/Q-Tip/Tash beat outdistances everything
I've heard from Atmosphere in the wack department).
Overall, I feel like this one's an A+ demo, but as a proper album it
gets a B. As a guiding force, Mos seems someone who hasn't devoted the
attention to the music side which schools one in all the little things
that separate a good beat from a great one.
(But then, to join in the Roots-dissing, the way Questlove goes on, it
sure seems he has paid a lot of attention to those little things, and
he still doesn't get it.)
Peece,
T. Tauri
Jamtown2
>mos def to lauryn hill and outkast? I mean, I'm not the biggest l-boogie fan
>but she's not wack. And outkast is dope as hell. And when I compare them I
>don't mean by beat style or rhyme styles, I'm speaking simply on the vibe I
>get
>like the leaders of the new style of rap. common, mos def, outkast, lauryn,
>cee-lo and kwlei are all in the same boat to me. they are all totally
>different
>and they are all dope (some much better the others) but they all are saying
>similar things. they are all positive and rap about personal shit. sure, mos
>def is more a "hooray for hip hop" type then say cee-lo but when it comes
>down
>to it they are all very similar.
hello tony...first of all, rereading my original message it did seem like i was
flying off the handle and i appologize for that..it was early *s* ...... i
still don't think you can compare....just my opinion. i *like* lauren
hill....but i am not crazy about her solo album. in fact i can probably say i
don't like it. she can sing don't get me wrong, but i prefer her fast paced
songs and/or rapping. i like outkast but i don't see the comparison with mos
def.
peace,
marie
Jamtown2
>particular artist?
I KNOW YOU DIDN'T JUST CALLING ME A FOOL FOR ASKING A SIMPLE HONEST
QUESTION.....AND 2ND OF ALL I WASN'T EVEN TALKING TO YOU IN THE FIRST PLACE
if someone doesn't like mos def's album, they have to
>have terrible taste? that's absurd.
WHERE DID I WRITE THIS????????
and i totally feel tony on the
>lauryn hill/outkast comparison. not the outkast as much, but definitely
>lauryn hill.
FINE. YOUR OPINION....THERE WAS NO NEED FOR THAT *FOOL* BUSINESS!
i was listening to mos def the other day, and he says "black
>people" like every other song on the album.
AND SO?
i get the feeling with him
>and lauryn (and common and the roots...) that they're uncomfortable with
>the fact that their audience is overwhelmingly white.
HENCE COMMON: ALL WE SEE IS COFFEE SHOP CHICKS AND WHITE DUDES......IS THERE A
PROBLEM WITH WANTING THERE OWN PEOPLE COMING OUT TO SUPPORT?
maybe not
>uncomfortable, but just disappointed that their own people don't seem to
>be feeling them. and so they come out trying to be super-black or
>something.
HAHAHAH....WHAT THE HELL IS *SUPER BLACK* PLEASE EXPLAIN.....HAHAHAHAHHAHA
and, of course, part of it is just honest interest in
>african-american culture, too. but, you can't discount the former reason.
>
>todd
DukeyStayn
>everything. not true. i like a few things here and there. anyway, I purposely
>avoided the mos def album cause I had a feeling what it would be like. I was
>kind of right.
Thanks for speakin up dude, i've had to fight with people (non internet folks)
left and right for not liking the mos def album. Some things are NOT
universally dope. Even if it is MOS DEF. I think hip hop albums and
"dissapointment" are becoming synonymous to me (was that proper word usage?).
Now the only thing i'm really amped for is Slug's solo. A Beatjunkies album
would be nice, so would another one from Ozomatli. Oh well....wishful
thinking...
Peace,
Duke
I'm known around my village as "the mouth that likes to shoot."
-Slug-
Tony1er
<<where do you see your boy slug fitting in to that? he's not as positive
or spiritual as a cee-lo or mos def, but he's definitely introspective and
sometimes on the "hooray for hip hop" kinda vibe, too. i guess the
difference would be that a) he's not black, and thus, does not kick rhymes
<<for the united "black people" and b) he doesn't sing.
While slug does kind of fit into that group, he also doesn't because he doesn't
devout all his time to rapping about his spirituality or positivity. he does do
"horaay for hip hop" shit too bit i relate to his more. it seems less
manufactured then say Lauryn hill doing it. it's more personal when he kicks it
and more honest to me. I don't doubt any of those heads love for the music but
the audience they target tends to dictate how they kick shit. Also, slugs
whiteness (or mixed whiteness) really doesn't play into it. I don't like these
heads less cause they are proud of their race. hell, "done by the forces of
nature" is my favorite album of all time. it's just they, as mc's, when they
do it to much (by "it" i mean rap about the same shit) it gets tired. i wish
common would do less "reminding me of sef" and more "sum shit i wrote". i wish
lauryn would do less of everything she does now and kick more shit like she did
on "the score". I'm happy with andre and cee-lo. i think they pull it off with
style on different level then the rest. the roots...well, you kniow my steez on
that.
by the way, i heard a bunch of new slug shit, he is beginning to song a lot
more. not like mos def style but hooks and shit like that.
later tony
miss bee
Back to Mos Def...
What's up with Dante's "Umi Says" fake reggae song? It's just so
retro-'91 NY dubstyle.
I think he's finally being sweated after years of trying to get his shit
out precisely because he's been trying so long. It's like everyone in
NY who's been trying/not totally successful for a million years is
finally getting their minute.
I know, that hip hop fan-wise, for me the moment has passed. Mos Def,
Pharoahe Monch... I saw Organized Konfusion perform with Biggie and
Tupac and OC in '93.
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Todd Ito
: As far as I can tell there is no evidence that any of these artists are super
: pro-black in response to their own people not feeling them. They may notice the
: phenemona, but I don't attach ulterior motives to their lyrical content.
well, i never heard krs diss the rolling stones, and i never heard chuck d
say something about "coffee shop chicks and white dudes." there's some
evidence for you.
todd
Jamtown2
evidence....this is evidence?? so you are trying to tell us what dudes like
common should/shouldn't be rapping about....we are not talking about
krs/chuckd, but if so, just because they may/maynot have expressed themselves
that way, DOES NOT mean common and others have to go that route...
ok so...i guess eminem and 3rd bass are on the same level too right?
marie
KSG
Todd Ito wrote:
> KSG <kga...@cs.ucsd.edu> wrote:
>
> : As far as I can tell there is no evidence that any of these artists are super
> : pro-black in response to their own people not feeling them. They may notice the
> : phenemona, but I don't attach ulterior motives to their lyrical content.
>
> well, i never heard krs diss the rolling stones, and i never heard chuck d
> say something about "coffee shop chicks and white dudes." there's some
> evidence for you.
That's some weak evidence. KRS-1 dissed the eurocentric bias in the Bible. Chuck D
attacked the white judicial system. KRS-1 attacked on the whole white artists who
stole rock and then sue hip hop artists for using rock samples. Chuck D has made
reference to Farakhan being a prophet.
I could go on and on about ways in which KRS-1 and Chuck D may have presumably been
distancing themselves away from white fans. I don't think this was the case. I also
don't think it was the case for Mos Def and Common. Both seem to be acknowledging a
phenomena... they're writing about what they observe.
KSG
Tony1er wrote:
> Also, slugs
> whiteness (or mixed whiteness) really doesn't play into it.
I doubt that.
> I don't like these
> heads less cause they are proud of their race. hell, "done by the forces of
> nature" is my favorite album of all time. it's just they, as mc's, when they
> do it to much (by "it" i mean rap about the same shit) it gets tired. i wish
> common would do less "reminding me of sef" and more "sum shit i wrote". i wish
> lauryn would do less of everything she does now and kick more shit like she did
> on "the score".
I'm not surprised.
March The 14th
wrote:
>This album had me thinking a bunch about the waning of equal say for the
>DJ/producer--I mean, I figure that No ID could pull rank on Com pretty
>comfortably if he wasn't happy with a beat, or Marley could on Big Daddy
>Kane (would Kane ever even have tried to make the final call about one
>of Marley's beats?). I don't imagine the dynamic with this album--like
>so many today--would've supported that. The journeyman producer simply
>doesn't have the same kind of responsibility to the product.
You know what, I'm with T. Tauri all the way. I would really have
liked Mos Def's album to sound like the 5 songs I've heard off
J-Live's new one (hacked into the real audio directory on the seven
heads website to hear them):
Kick It To The Beat (prod by Pete Rock)
The Best Part (prod by DJ Premier)
Yes (prod by Grap Luva?)
Them That's Not (prod by Grap Luva)
True School (prod by ???)
There's chemistry between J-Live and the beats on those tracks
(they're also off the fuckin hook). Even Primo's beat sounds like he
actually sat down and worked something out with J (kinda like
Illmatic's NY State Of Mind/Memory Lane work).
I know it's dumb to do idiotic comparisions like this, but if Mos Def
could have taken an extra couple of weeks to work out a little detail
like this, we'd all be sitting on an all-out, hands-down classic album
(or at least a much better album than Black On Both Sides).
And I'll go so far as to say that Black On Both Sides is everything
that's right and everything that's wrong with a lot of "underground"
hip-hop releases from the past 3-5 years.
Sincerely,
The Late Ray "Muthafuckin" Kroc (1902-1984)
Nesta
>From: ton...@aol.com (Tony1er)
i
>wish
>common would do less "reminding me of sef" and more "sum shit i wrote".
ok, while i know your problems w/ com, i think you should clarify this for
other folks, because i don't think "reminding me" is really the type of shit
from him you don't like. that's just a joint about kicking it back in the day,
i don't know how you could front on it, at least lyrically. i thought you were
more against the "god" and "retrospect for life" shit.
...nesta...
Most of you can't even comprehend what I am saying to you
Even in my human form the message I'm relaying
One good thing about music
When it hits you feel no pain
scri...@my-deja.com
from my eyes cause this is to damn funny.
peace,
damien
In article <19991109234101...@ng-bh1.aol.com>,
jamt...@aol.com (Jamtown2) wrote:
> >here's how I see the mos def album: a mix between lauryn hill's
> >album and Outkast's last album with a total "I am hip hop hear me
roar" feel
> >to
> >it.
>
> what the fuck are you talking about??? what planet are you from
comparing mos
> def to lauren & outkast....*nothing in common* get a grip!!!!
>
> marie
>
ba...@home.com
KSG <kga...@cs.ucsd.edu> wrote:
> I could go on and on about ways in which KRS-1 and Chuck D may have
presumably been
> distancing themselves away from white fans. I don't think this was
the case. I also
> don't think it was the case for Mos Def and Common. Both seem to be
acknowledging a
> phenomena... they're writing about what they observe.
After seeing PE perform a couple weeks back, they're still up on the
pro-Black vibe, but they're also up on an All People vibe. While there
were times when Chuck talked about how Blacks are receiving unfair
treatment (Mumia Abu-Jamal), and how America is not a democry, him and
Flav also talked about making your own choices, getting along with
others, forming your own choices. Dope show overall. Probably the only
hip-hop show that I can recall that didnt have a fight. Was kinda weird
to see 40 year olds and 20 year olds, standing side by side, pumping
their fists, nodding their heads. Unbelievable.
--
One Love,
Terry Malko
'A rich man is one with knowledge, happiness and his health' -- Common
Shaun G.
"T. Tauri" <ea...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> (But then, to join in the Roots-dissing, the way Questlove goes on, it
> sure seems he has paid a lot of attention to those little things, and
> he still doesn't get it.)
Could you expand on this statement please. What doesn't Questlove
get?
--
Peace,
Shaun G.
Tony1er
>But I must say, Tony, you've been a lot more forgiving to Slug, whose
beats are worse (though that Mos/Q-Tip/Tash beat outdistances everything
>I've heard from Atmosphere in the wack department).
true, his older shit is wack beatwise but he's that good as an mc to me. that's
some rare shit. an mc who is so dope, I can pump his wack ass beats. mos def
isn't that good.mos def compliments a beats but he can't make a wack beat dope.
also, I've heard a crap load of new slug shit and the beats are actually pretty
fat.
later tony
Tony1er
full on racial discussion that has nothing to do with anything I said in the
first place.
Ksg wrote:
> Also, slugs
> whiteness (or mixed whiteness) really doesn't play into it.
>I doubt that.
keep doubting it. think whatever you want that you think I might be
thinking...please read my mind. tell me what I don't know about myself.
> I don't like these
> heads less cause they are proud of their race. hell, "done by the forces of
> nature" is my favorite album of all time. it's just they, as mc's, when they
> do it to much (by "it" i mean rap about the same shit) it gets tired. i wish
> common would do less "reminding me of sef" and more "sum shit i wrote". i
wish
> lauryn would do less of everything she does now and kick more shit like she
did
> on "the score".
>I'm not surprised.
is this a petty little comment here? just checking?
later tony
Tony1er
ok, while i know your problems w/ com, i think you should clarify this for
other folks, because i don't think "reminding me" is really the type of shit
from him you don't like. that's just a joint about kicking it back in the day,
i don't know how you could front on it, at least lyrically. i thought you were
>>more against the "god" and "retrospect for life" shit.
shit..."god" was the name of the track i was thinking of and I couldn't so I
put "reminding me". good call on the correction.
later tony
AlanPage
>out precisely because he's been trying so long. It's like everyone in
>NY who's been trying/not totally successful for a million years is
>finally getting their minute.
Hello, there's a world outside of NY, you know...and Mos Def is selling a lot
of records outside of New York...man, you're really cynical, because last time
I check people actually bought albums because they enjoyed the music therein
(or expected to enjoy the music therein). I bought Mos Def's album because I
like most of the work I heard by him prior to his album (particularly joints
like "Travellin Man" and, of course, "Universal Magnetic"). Also, as a side
note, I dug a lot of his political positions and his activism.
I think most of the people who bought Mos Def's album did so because they
enjoyed his pre-album work.
PS: I'd like to add that I think Mos Def's album is banging.
PPS: And so what if "Umi Says" sounds like a dub track...it's dope...to me,
anyway...
PPPS: And besides calling them pretentious, you have never explained what you
don't like about the roots *musically* (t. tauri broke down a few good points
of criticism on their production not too long ago)
Peace,
Spirit
Spread Love/Amphibians
I try to love everyone...but it seems like everyone is trying to annoy me...
AlanPage
>that's
>some rare shit. an mc who is so dope, I can pump his wack ass beats. mos def
>isn't that good.
So, now you're saying that Slug is a better emcee than Mos Def. I have had
another hip-hop fan try to convince me that Slug was a better emcee than
Pharoah Monch (months before Pharoah dropped "Simon Says"). Is this all just
hyperbole? I have some atmosphere tracks on real audio and wasn't blown away. I
guess I'll withhold judgment until I hear more Slug, but I'm skeptical...
Todd Ito
:>why do fools always ask this question when someone says they don't like a
:>particular artist?
: I KNOW YOU DIDN'T JUST CALLING ME A FOOL FOR ASKING A SIMPLE HONEST
: QUESTION.....AND 2ND OF ALL I WASN'T EVEN TALKING TO YOU IN THE FIRST PLACE
i wasn't calling you a fool, i was using fool as a pronoun, essentially.
i could have used "people" instead of "fools." of course, at the same
time, i was implying that you were foolish. get it?
: if someone doesn't like mos def's album, they have to
:>have terrible taste? that's absurd.
: WHERE DID I WRITE THIS????????
it was implied. maybe i misunderstood. what did you mean by asking what
he likes?
: HENCE COMMON: ALL WE SEE IS COFFEE SHOP CHICKS AND WHITE DUDES......
exactly. that was my point.
: IS THERE A
: PROBLEM WITH WANTING THERE OWN PEOPLE COMING OUT TO SUPPORT?
no, there's a problem with their own people NOT coming out to support.
sorry if that wasn't clear.
todd
Todd Ito
: It seems to me that you maybe confusing correlation with causation.
um, no, that's not it. i could very well be wrong about the reasons that
lauryn, mos def, et al espouse afrocentric lyrics. they certainly existed
before there was a large white hip-hop audience, you're correct about
that. it just seems to me that some recent lyrics seem to reveal an
awareness on the artist's part of the demographics of their audience.
common's line is a good example. i think you could read mos def's "rock
n' roll" two ways. it could be sort of a diss to white rock fans who
bought his album, or it could be a way to hip a black rap audience to
black rock groups like fishbone. i was just saying these artists were
POSSIBLY reacting to the reality that most of their album sales are to
whites. sorry if i offended you or i was misunderstood or whatever. i
ususally dash these posts off without a whole lot of thought. apologies.
so that i don't make yet another post on this thread--tony, if you hadn't
already heard, common's new single is supposed to be more battle type
shit, calling out various emcees. should be hot.
todd
T. Tauri
>
> I would really have liked Mos Def's album to sound like the 5 songs
> I've heard off J-Live's new one (hacked into the real audio directory
> on the seven heads website to hear them):
>
> Kick It To The Beat (prod by Pete Rock)
> The Best Part (prod by DJ Premier)
> Yes (prod by Grap Luva?)
> Them That's Not (prod by Grap Luva)
> True School (prod by ???)
>
> There's chemistry between J-Live and the beats on those tracks
> (they're also off the fuckin hook). Even Primo's beat sounds like he
> actually sat down and worked something out with J (kinda like
> Illmatic's NY State Of Mind/Memory Lane work).
I checked Yes, Them That's Not, and True School Anthem through the
regular page--must say I'm pretty happy with what I'm hearing. Beats
sound solid. Maybe too much emphasis from J on the line-end rhymes, but
I can deal with that better.
> Sincerely,
>
> The Late Ray "Muthafuckin" Kroc (1902-1984)
Ray, man, McDonalds has just gone DOWNHILL since you passed away... But
it's real nice of you to come back from the dead to visit RMHH.
Peece,
T. Tauri
T. Tauri
>
> In article <382A49...@worldnet.att.net>,
> "T. Tauri" <ea...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
> > (But then, to join in the Roots-dissing, the way Questlove goes on,
> > it sure seems he has paid a lot of attention to those little things,
> > and he still doesn't get it.)
>
> Could you expand on this statement please. What doesn't Questlove
> get?
My big beef with The Roots is that they view the technical aspects
mostly unique to hip-hop production (using samplers, studio technology,
DJs) from a very pre-hip-hop band-oriented/instrument-playing viewpoint.
I mean, when I first heard Kurtis Mantronik's drum machine programming
or Marley's loops, say, these things amazed me because they were
accomplishing things soundwise that had previously not been
imagined--the technology was not being used to *emulate* something else,
but for its own distinctive capabilities. I don't feel the Roots meet
these methods on their own terms like that. I don't think for instance
you hear loops from the Roots that you couldn't play a reasonable
facsimile of live--this is not the case for a lot of Pete Rock's or
Premier's productions, to say nothing of the Bomb Squad. So the question
is why do they go about making these loops and using hip-hop's
production methods, instead of recording themselves all live, if all
they want to do is make a more tempo-locked facsimile of themselves
playing as a band? And they get jocked for this! In terms of recording
live music in a hip-hop context, I think Portishead are a good example
of what The Roots are missing--using a variety of recording techniques
to color the sounds, mixing instruments from different eras, sometimes
pressing up acetates of their own music to scratch, etc. I think the
first time that the Roots approached this kind of sensitivity was the
drum n bass beat at the end of "You Got Me" which was speeded up from
the tempo it was originally recorded at, but I have yet to hear evidence
that they are hearing those same kinds of nuances in hip-hop itself.
Basically, when they work with the techniques that come from hip-hop as
such, there's a lot of it they miss, because they're trying to fit all
of it into the same idea of musicality they had from their keyboards,
guitars, basses, and drums, rather than paying attention to how the
technologies of hip-hop have altered that idea.
(And just to set this gripe in context: there are certainly plenty worse
acts out there, but I think the Roots get an irritatingly large amount
of mileage out of some misguided presumptions.)
I just wish more people could have heard The Sindecut....
Peece,
T. Tauri
Todd Ito
: So, now you're saying that Slug is a better emcee than Mos Def. I have had
: another hip-hop fan try to convince me that Slug was a better emcee than
: Pharoah Monch (months before Pharoah dropped "Simon Says"). Is this all just
: hyperbole? I have some atmosphere tracks on real audio and wasn't blown away. I
: guess I'll withhold judgment until I hear more Slug, but I'm skeptical...
at this point, i think slug is a better emcee than pharoah monch. i was
listening to this tape i made of random slug tracks, and i think he's
at least every other verse is quotable. he's that dope.
todd
Jamtown2
>i wasn't calling you a fool, i was using fool as a pronoun, essentially.
>:>why do fools always ask this question when someone says they don't like a
>:>particular artist?
>
>i could have used "people" instead of "fools." of course, at the same
>time, i was implying that you were foolish. get it?
nawwwww....i don't appreciate you calling me that..1st of all i am new here 2nd
of all it's rude!
>: if someone doesn't like mos def's album, they have to
>:>have terrible taste? that's absurd.
>
>: WHERE DID I WRITE THIS????????
>
>it was implied. maybe i misunderstood. what did you mean by asking what
>he likes?
i was just asking *what does he like* plain and simple.
wesley...@my-deja.com
Is this all just
> hyperbole? I have some atmosphere tracks on real audio and wasn't
blown away. I
> guess I'll withhold judgment until I hear more Slug, but I'm
skeptical...
>
> Peace,
>
> Spirit
> Spread Love/Amphibians
>
Slug kills Mos lyrically. Its not even close. Slug can write
introspective,love songs, comic, battle,political, playa hayting, and
inspirational better than Mos. His attention to detail is more precyse.
Slugg-o can freestyle a hell of lot better. I'll take Slug and Eyedea
vs. Blackstarr for any amount of money in a battle.
He can't sing as well though.
Mos does have a better voice, as does Method Man so..
Funny thing is I talked to Slug at a recent show and he told me that Mos
Def is the dopest emcee right now in hip hop.
He also said that is the direction Atmosphere is heading.
So thats what this slug vs mos def thing is worth.
I'm satisfied with both thier material.
As far as Pharoah, he is almost going int that Jay-z category as mcees
who have mad talent but don't use it.
Hell i like MOP now more than Pharoah.
Illogic, Slug and Acey may be the dopest emcees in hip hop right now
just because they maximize their talent.
Common is prolly the dopest but he is to busy being Jimmy Swaggert at
times.
ANONLOVE HANDLES
KNK BSA IO
"even if your dj was jesus you could never fuck with these
Shaun G.
"T. Tauri" <ea...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> Shaun G. wrote:
> >
> > In article <382A49...@worldnet.att.net>,
> > "T. Tauri" <ea...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> >
> > > (But then, to join in the Roots-dissing, the way Questlove goes
on,
> > > it sure seems he has paid a lot of attention to those little
things,
> > > and he still doesn't get it.)
> >
> > Could you expand on this statement please. What doesn't Questlove
> > get?
>
<intelligent analysis snipped>
Thanks for the explanation. I never really thought about it that way
and after reading it I think that you have a point.
BUT after lurking and posting on occasion at RMHH for the last three
years I've finally come to realize that people on this newsgroup analyze
Hip-Hop music a whole lot more than I do. Not to say that I'm some
MTV bandwagon jumper (I'm 28 and have been listening to Hip-Hop since
the Sugar Hill Gang), but musically, I either like it or I don't.
There's nothing wrong with critical analysis, it just seems to me that
if I was as critical as some of the people on this newsgroup I would
rarely buy any Hip-Hop at all.
>
> I just wish more people could have heard The Sindecut....
Who?What?Where?
--
Peace,
Shaun G.
B. David Harrison
> Slug kills Mos lyrically. Its not even close. Slug can write
> introspective,love songs, comic, battle,political, playa hayting, and
> inspirational better than Mos. His attention to detail is more precyse.
> Slugg-o can freestyle a hell of lot better. I'll take Slug and Eyedea
> vs. Blackstarr for any amount of money in a battle.
> He can't sing as well though.
> Mos does have a better voice, as does Method Man so..
From what little I've heard of Slug, he's terribly engaging. I
actually think he's got a lot of the same qualities that make Mos Def
dope. They manage to come dope without a lot of tricks and gimmics, just
straight lyrics and a nice delivery.
Mos Def isn't a lyrical genius, what he is is the most entertaining MC
out there. It's not about skills, it's about the vibe that he gives off.
B. David Harrison Anti-Knuckleheadosity:Last Updated 11/08/1999
Live from Seattle http://members.xoom.com/bdharris
to reply, spell "warshinton" like you're not from the sticks
"How else am I to get you to treat me like a man of weight and
substance unless I act as morally perturbed and angst-ridden as
everyone else in this room?" -The Beast
"This ain't no time when the usual is suitable" -Mos Def
B. David Harrison
> My big beef with The Roots is that they view the technical aspects
> mostly unique to hip-hop production (using samplers, studio technology,
> DJs) from a very pre-hip-hop band-oriented/instrument-playing viewpoint.
>
> Basically, when they work with the techniques that come from hip-hop as
> such, there's a lot of it they miss, because they're trying to fit all
> of it into the same idea of musicality they had from their keyboards,
> guitars, basses, and drums, rather than paying attention to how the
> technologies of hip-hop have altered that idea.
Very well said. This is why the Roots would be much better served to go
back to being a band that did hip-hop music, rather than hip-hop artists
who used live instruments. If you're simply looping the same keys over
and over again, it's going to sound better if they're actually "played" so
that you get those little variations. The more the trend drifts away from
Organix, the closer to generic the Roots gets. They're still very dope,
but you can just see things getting worse with each album.
Tony1er
>>So, now you're saying that Slug is a better emcee than Mos Def. I have had
another hip-hop fan try to convince me that Slug was a better emcee than
hyperbole? I have some atmosphere tracks on real audio and wasn't blown away. I
>>guess I'll withhold judgment until I hear more Slug, but I'm skeptical...
he's not the type you can really judge off one song. but yes, i think slug is
doper then mos defand content wise he's doper then monch. flow wise, no one is
really fucking with monch though.
later tony
Nesta
>so that i don't make yet another post on this thread--tony, if you hadn't
>already heard, common's new single is supposed to be more battle type
>shit, calling out various emcees. should be hot.
i've heard it a few times, it's called "dooinit"
i don't know if i'd call it hot. but i expect a lot from com. as a first
single it's not on the level of "used to love her" or "1 2 many." but it's
nice. a little bouncy piano sample, i think dug infinite did the beat but i'm
not sure. anyway, com doesn't really call out anyone besides the ubiquitous
wack mc. and he doesn't come as dope as he can lyrically; it's solid, but
nothing that made me say damn.
i think my favorite line is "I give a fuck how much money you got, nigga you
wack!"
more to the point than usual from mr. lynn
facetone
>
> The sad thing is, I don't think people totally get that song. I didn't
> the first time I heard it.
>
Folks in the MN get it all too well, sadly
--
facetone
> damn...i fucked up pretty bad on this one. I'm pretty out of it today...i
> was thinking of primer when i wrote this. The lyrics to scapegoat are
> extremely ill. This is the song i usually use to introduce people to
> slug/atmosphere actually.
Shit, about a year ago, I was at a show that contained a 1/2 hour set of
just a Slug/Eyedea freestyle session. At one point, they said the audience
should pick a topic, and they'd battle only using that topic as a
reference. They gave Slug "Sesame Street" and Eyedea "Santa Claus" It was
the illest shit I ever seen, two emcees up there like "shit, I taught your
kids to count..." "I bring you what you want, fill your stockings..." shit
like that.
--
facetone
<ea...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> The Sindecut were an English band/crew that came out with an album and
> some singles on that side of the pond (got the singles, never found the
> album personally) in the post-Soul II Soul fever of '90-'91. Like S II
> S, they mixed up hip-hop, soul, and reggae influences, but in their case
> each element was a lot less watered down/smoothed out. The music was, to
> me (and the crowds I was spinning for got off on it too), a
> fantastically dope fusion of programmed and live shit or original
> material sampled. I think they were miles ahead of The Roots, but years
> before there was any sense that being a hip-hop band, in the
> instrument-playing sense, made much of a difference (which was part of
> why I like them more, anyway).
>
> Peece,
> T. Tauri
What about UDS??? "Deeper Shade" had a fat video, they were good
musicians, but fuck their emcee. Come to think of it, I think their emcee
went home for 6 years, developed some skills, and became Iriscience (they
sound exactly the same)
--
facetone
> even higher level of lyricism which Slug attains to which these quotes lyrics
> pales in comparison.
>
>
true
--
AlanPage
>I can deal with that better.
hey, Tauri, any emcees out there you do like? ha...just ribbing you...you seem
awfully cynical lately though...maybe it's just my imagination...
AlanPage
>n' roll" two ways. it could be sort of a diss to white rock fans who
>bought his album, or it could be a way to hip a black rap audience to
>black rock groups like fishbone.
Damn, Todd, you missed the obvious answer: "Rock n Roll" could be a song about
how Mos Def actaully feels about rock-n-roll. Basically, he's saying that the
black rock legends get overlooked in the props department (compare the respect
that, say, Elvis might get with, say, Jimi Hendrix, then try [I mean, if you
can] to "objectively" compare their level of talent...I'm not sure how easily
music can be compared, but I feel pretty secure in saying Jimi was the better
musician and songwriter [um, as far as vocal styles, shit I can't call it, Jimi
wasn't that spectacular of a singer, but I never thought Elvis' vocals were
very mind numbing either]).
The point that Mos was making has been made over and over by people like Little
Richard...who would fit better in the comparison above than Jimi [Little
richard v. Elvis]...the situation becomes especially critical when white acts
"covered" black artists' songs and got a MUCH higher level of commercial and
critical acclaim...even idf the end results were either identical or
inferior...
> i was just saying these artists were
>POSSIBLY reacting to the reality that most of their album sales are to
>whites.
I wouldn't give that theory much credence at all...are you trying to suggest
that Mos et al are working hard to cut down their own record sales? That sounds
kind of oxymoronic to me in the modern music industry...then, are you also
considering that Mos, Lauryn, Common, et al record for white owned labels? If
their music really was intended to send whites running for the hills, do you
actually think those white people would finance and distribute it?
AlanPage
>: PROBLEM WITH WANTING THERE OWN PEOPLE COMING OUT TO SUPPORT?
>
>no, there's a problem with their own people NOT coming out to support.
>sorry if that wasn't clear.
>
Todd, please explain the distinction between (1) wanting "your people" to
support and (2) the "problem" created by your "own people" not coming out to
support. I see them as two sides of the same theory that black people should
support black musicians.
AlanPage
Please read my post again.
(1) My point was that this fan had called Slug better than pharoah BEFORE his
current Rawkus incarnation
(2) Pharoah is still dope, he just simplified his concepts.
>i was
>listening to this tape i made of random >slug tracks, and i think he's
>at least every other verse is quotable. >he's that dope.
I could say the same for Mos Def...in fact, I would go as far as to say that I
feel almost every Mos verse on the LP is quotable. The question becomes, do you
think that Slug is a better _MC_ than Mos def and Pharoah. Emceeing is more
than just verses, it's the total package: stage show, mic presence, voice,
lyrics, level of freestyle capability [I include this as a factor, others
don't], concepts (this is a subset of "lyrics" actually), and charisma.
AlanPage
>introspective,love songs, comic, battle,political, playa hayting, and
>inspirational better than Mos.
I'm going to need to see some lyrics to back that claim up, sir...
AlanPage
>out there. It's not about skills, it's about the vibe that he gives off.
>
>
At this point, it looks like mos' charisma is almost a liability, because it
seems like people don't even listen to his lyrics...he comes quite correct on
the lyrical side, folks...check Mathematics, Know that, New World Water...he
has concepts which he works through well...he used to have a lot more
filler...he has really cut that down to nothing now IMO...Mr. Nigga is classic,
Hip-Hop is another well-written piece...he has skills AND the vibe...in fact,
he's chilling in my Top 5 right now...waiting to see what Andre brings on the
new Outkast...
AlanPage
>doper then mos def
why? lyrics, please...
>and content wise he's doper then monch.
ditto...
Nesta
>Damn, Todd, you missed the obvious answer: "Rock n Roll" could be a song
>about
>how Mos Def actaully feels about rock-n-roll. Basically, he's saying that
>the
>black rock legends get overlooked in the props department (compare the respect
>that, say, Elvis might get with, say, Jimi Hendrix, then try [I mean, if
>you
>can] to "objectively" compare their level of talent.
well i won't get all into this again, but i spoke on this a couple weeks
ago...in my experience, jimi hendrix easily gets more props than elvis. and
i've always thought little richard and chuck berry were nearly as well known as
elvis. ksg's little roommate poll tried to refute that, but really, i think
fatboy said it best - most folks, of our generation and younger, at least, just
see elvis as this caricature.
are you also
>considering that Mos, Lauryn, Common, et al record for white owned labels?
>If
>their music really was intended to send whites running for the hills, do
>you
>actually think those white people would finance and distribute it?
absolutely. it seems music intended to get white folks running for the hills
gets them running to the record store instead.
Nesta
>>introspective,love songs, comic, battle,political, playa hayting, and
>>inspirational better than Mos.
>
>I'm going to need to see some lyrics to back that claim up, sir...
well i meant to actually reply to a different message of yours spirit, but i
lost it, so fuck it, this one is good enough.
i'm not saying that i think our tastes are mad similar or anything, but i know
you know how to appreciate the skill and craft of mcing. i strongly urge you
to peep more slug. you said you've only heard him in real audio right?
i don't know that i'd rank him ahead of mos def or pharoah, but all 3 are among
my top 10 mcs. (though i don't have the new pharaoh yet). on the real, he is
on the same level, though different. honestly, he does have his bases covered
as far as mcing skills - writtens, frees, breath control, flow, topical
variety. no joke, he's tight at all phases of the game.
i suck at remembering lyrics so i'm not gonna put any down, but if no one else
does i'll try to dig some up for you. but if you should hear some more of him
before judging. hit me up if you want me to hook you up.
Nesta
>>out there. It's not about skills, it's about the vibe that he gives off.
>
>At this point, it looks like mos' charisma is almost a liability, because
>it
>seems like people don't even listen to his lyrics.
thank you, this is what i've been saying. i'm not in love w/ his album, and i
actually think he didn't come as dope as he can on several cuts. but
regardless, he has lyrics that can stand w/ almost anyone, heads seem to ignore
them though.
off the top i'd say peep his shit on respiration rmx, thieves in the night,
well fuck that's all i'm thinking of right now among his brilliant stuff. but
no one can think his writing is of lesser importance from those verses.
BUGGZY415
>>: PROBLEM WITH WANTING THERE OWN PEOPLE COMING OUT TO SUPPORT?
>>
>>no, there's a problem with their own people NOT coming out to support.
>>sorry if that wasn't clear.
>>
>
>Todd, please explain the distinction between (1) wanting "your people" to
>support and (2) the "problem" created by your "own people" not coming out to
>support. I see them as two sides of the same theory that black people should
>support black musicians.
There is a distinction: 1) There is nothing wrong with wanting "your people" to
support. It's natural to want those who share your background to feel your
artwork and support it. 2)The problem, according to Todd, occurs when "your
people" *don't*. While related, these two are definitely not the same. One
deals with the musician, the other deals with his desired audience, or lack of.
Buggzy
"Hip hop is getting strangled by this Puff Combs Syndrome
N**gaz been around the world acting like they never been home"--Common
BUGGZY415
>new Outkast...
>
Is Outkast *really* gonna drop one anytime soon? That would be so ill. I just
can't see an album coming out for at least another 6 months, though. It seems
too good to be true.
augury
I remember nearly two years ago some of the Chicago/Milwaukee
Midwestern heads were talking about how incredible Slug was, and I
posted something mildly incredulous about how exactly some white dude
from Minnesota was going to turn the party out. And then I got a bunch
of hate mail and insults directed my way. When I finally listened to
the Atmosphere album I felt totally blindsided. Since the release of
the Slug solo tape "se7en," I'm now willing to put him up against Mos
Def or just about anybody.
Trust me, Alan, Slug does in fact have it all - concept rhymes, battle
rhymes, freestyles, great mic presence. And I saw him live and he
ripped it. Not only is he really talented, but he's actively interested
in doing new shit and appealing to a wide range of people and writing
about life from a number of different angles. I think it's beside the
point to construct imaginary battles, but I would definitely say Slug
is in the Mos Def / Monch league (although out of the three, PM is
still way out ahead in terms of depth and importance of a whole body of
work).
A couple examples - concepts/story raps = "Primer," "Scapegoat,"
"Nothing But Sunshine," "Lyle Lovette." Listen to those songs and tell
me Slug's not up there with today's most inventive MCs.
Now let me dismount from the jock for a second and get back to Mos Def.
I feel that some of the people in this thread are discounting one of
Mos Def's skills that I think Alan instictively recognizes, given that
he's an MC himself - which is simplicity. A lot of the time phrasing
things simply and effectively is just as hard or harder as coming
abstract. And don't front on Mos' freestyle abilities or his live show.
Blackstar are excellent live performers and I've seen both Mos and
Kweli come off the top for minutes on end (although I think Kwe's a
little less consistent; I get the impression he's working on it).
Oh yeah, one thing both these MCs have in common is they shine despite
frequently lackluster beats. I know it's fam for both of them but they
both need someone more interesting behind the boards.
--
Richard Allen
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
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Todd Ito
: The question becomes, do you
: think that Slug is a better _MC_ than Mos def and Pharoah. Emceeing is more
: than just verses, it's the total package: stage show, mic presence, voice,
: lyrics, level of freestyle capability [I include this as a factor, others
: don't], concepts (this is a subset of "lyrics" actually), and charisma.
well, first of all, i think that it's pretty difficult (and kinda
pointless) to argue over who is better when you're dealing with 3 emcees
who are all really talented. my point was never to say that slug was
like the best emcee, but to say that he was up there with mos def and
pharoah. you seemed to find it hard to believe that someone could think
slug was better than mos def, but i think they are definitely comparable.
and i definitely realize that there's more than just lyrics involved.
i've never heard slug freestyle (never seen him live, heard him on the
radio), but i've heard he's really dope off the dome. from what i have
heard of pharoah freestyling, he's not that good. slug has some really
deep concepts, incl. "god's bathroom floor" using drug addiction as a
methaphor for his relationship with his son (sort of...), "scapegoat,"
several others. none of them are really like "stray bullet," but he's got
some dope ideas. he can do introspective shit, battle shit,
story-telling, he's really versatile. and in the charisma department, i'd
say he's up there with mos def or aceyalone. it would definitely be worth
your money to check out the atmosphere cd, or at least the vinyl ep.
todd
wesley...@my-deja.com
alan...@aol.com (AlanPage) wrote:
> >Slug kills Mos lyrically. Its not even close. Slug can write
> >introspective,love songs, comic, battle,political, playa hayting, and
> >inspirational better than Mos.
>
> I'm going to need to see some lyrics to back that claim up, sir...
>
>
> Spirit
> Spread Love/Amphibians
>
Artist: Atmosphere
Album: Overcast
Song: Scapegoat
Typed by: jsel...@hotmail.com
Verse One: SLug
It's the caffeine, the nicotine, the miligrams of tar
It's my habitat, it needs to be cleaned, it's my car
It's the fast talk they use to abuse and feed my brain
It's the cat box it needs to be changed, it's the pain
It's women, it's the plight for power it's government
It's the way you're giving knowledge
slow with thought control and subtle hints
It's rubbing it, It's itching it, It's applying cream
It's the foreigners sight seeing with high beams, It's in my dreams
It's the monsters that I conjure, It's the marijuana
It's embarrassment, displacement, it's where I wander
It's my genre, It's Madonna's videos
It's game shows, cheap liquor, blunts,
and bumper stickers with rainbows
It's angels, demons, gods, it's the white devils
It's the monitors, the soundman, it's the fucking mic levels
It's gas fumes, fast food, Tommy Hil' and mommy's pill
Columbia House music club, designer drugs and rhyming thugs
It's bloods, crips, fives, six
It's stick up kids,
It's christian conservative terrorists, it's porno flicks
It's the east coast, no it's the west coast
It's public schools, it's asbestos
It's mentholated, It's techno
It's sleep, life, and death
It's speed, coke, and meth
It's hay fever, pain relievers, oral sex, and smokers breath
It stretches for as far as the eye can see
It's reality, fuck it , it's everything but me
On and on and on and on
The list goes on and on and on and on
<<KRS One scratched 4x>> "it's all according that life on a whole..."
It's in the water, it's in the air, it's in the meat
It's indirect, indiscrete, inconsistent, incomplete
It's in the streets, every city and everywhere you go
In every man it's the insanity, the fantasy, the casualties
It's the health care system, it's welfare victims
It's assault weapons, it's television religion, and it's false lessons
It's cops, police, pigs with badges guns and sticks
It's harassment and a complex you carry when you're running shit
It's wondering if you get to eat, it's the heat
It's the winter , the weather
It's herpes, and it's forever
It's the virus that takes the lives of the weak and the strong
It's the drama that keeps on between me and my seed's mom
It's that need to speak long, it's that hunger for attention
It's the wack , who attack songs of redemption
It's prevention, It's the first solution
It's loose, it's out for retribution,
it's mental pollution...and public execution
It's the nails that keep my hands and feet to these boards
It's the part time job that governs what you can afford
It's the fear, It's the fake
It's clear it can make time stop
and leave you stranded in the year of the snake
It's the dollar, yen, pound, it's all denomination
It's hourly wages for your professional observations
It's on your face and it's in your eyes
It's everything you be
Cause it ain't me, motherfucker, cause it ain't me, uh
On and on and on and on
The list goes on and on and on and on (3x)
<<KRS One scratched til close>> "It's all according that life on a
whole..."
This is "Sacpeoat", from Atmosphere's 1997 album Overcast, that I
boosted from
ohhla.com.
AN
wesley...@my-deja.com
Verse One: SLug
This is "Scapegoat", from Atmosphere's 1997 album Overcast, that I
B. David Harrison
> thank you, this is what i've been saying. i'm not in love w/ his
> album, and i actually think he didn't come as dope as he can on
> several cuts. but regardless, he has lyrics that can stand w/ almost
> anyone, heads seem to ignore them though.
One, I haven't heard his album. I'm just going off the Blackstar jam,
and the singles.
>
> off the top i'd say peep his shit on respiration rmx, thieves in the
> night, well fuck that's all i'm thinking of right now among his
"Thieves" is amazing. Probably one of the top 5 verses I've ever heard.
> brilliant stuff. but no one can think his writing is of lesser
> importance from those verses.
I guess I'm comparing him to MCs like Siah, Yeah, and Common. Guys who
use a lot of world play and blend the language a lot to make lyrics. Mos
is pretty straight forward, not terribly complex, but he's just as dope.
I don't know if my point is getting across well... I think he writes
amazing lyrics, but I don't feel some of those "damn!!" punchlines I get
from other MCs. That doesn't mean I don't think he's as dope lyrically,
and I probably like the end product a lot more.
B. David Harrison Anti-Knuckleheadosity:Last Updated 11/14/1999
wesley...@my-deja.com
alan...@aol.com (AlanPage) wrote:
> >Slug kills Mos lyrically. Its not even close. Slug can write
> >introspective,love songs, comic, battle,political, playa hayting, and
> >inspirational better than Mos.
>
> I'm going to need to see some lyrics to back that claim up, sir...
>
> Peace,
>
> Spirit
> Spread Love/Amphibians
>
Overcast album. Ohhla.com
Artist: Atmosphere
Album: Overcast EP
Song: Primer
Typed by: r...@csd.uwm.edu
<begin>
Hey Daly, Get the fuck away from my sister you punk motherfocker.
(intro) I do....I do....I do...Hey wassup, can i kiss the bitch
yet?.....I
do....
First of all bitch, i never promised i'd be rich
so fuck you and your wishes, ya need to do the dishes
and change the damn cat litter
I thought i told you to get rid of that crazy cat last week
Yo, don't you get sassy with me missy
Because i'll go upside you quickly
But yo, she's kinda sneeky when i sleep she'll probably stick me
But it be a threat
and threats make her respond
She probably grew up watching pops beat her mom
and to the break-a-dawn
I could pop shit
talk shit
(hah, snitch?) to herself
Because there aint no where to walk
This is the middle of hell
you've got no job no diploma
might as well kick it with me and live in Hinckley, Minnesota
She's my trailer park chick
with the pop tarts and venison hard liquor to cop a buzz
off the over the counter medicine
The rent is in the mail
bitch pump the keg
Fix the antenna, act your age and spread your legs
It's my CAS-STLE
whiiiiiiite trash ho
and if i want to i'll put it in your asshole
You wanna battle baby?
I'll put a shadow over ya sky
now shut the fuck up and fix me turkey pot pie
I own the camaro and the mobile home, so where the fuck you gonna go?
(4X)
go, go,
go ahead and call your mom if ya need someone to cry to boo
I guarantee ya that that bitch is gonna lie to you
Fuck ya crank head, soap opera, pastries, and diet soda
everything she'll ever need to know she learned from Oprah
You what the hell she's gonna do for you?
That bitch is stuck too
Get off my phone, tell her I said what up, and muthafuck you
And tell daddy if he wants some
to bring his drunk ass on
I leave that fat bastard with a cast on
Ay yo honey I'm trippin
But why you always flippin
dress slutty everytime that we go drinkin with my buddies
won't be long before you carrying my puppies
Speaking of which you bleeding yet bitch?
Cause you gettin kind of chubby
Yo, where the hell'd you put my stash?
Better tell me quick fast or catch a foot in the ass
Oh no, you did not smoke all of my pot
If my remmington was out the pawn shop, you'd get shot
Stop, and put that knife back in the sink
Baby, Baby, Baby, why you fucking trying to take me to the brink?
What you think?
Quit thinking and pretending that you're smart
Happily ever after 'til death do us part
I own the camaro and the mobile home, so where the fuck you gonna go?
(4X)
I love yo
meenan
word up....I'd even go as far as to throw slug up there with my top ten.
[or damn near]. that cat can play with words, rhyme schemes, and cover a
variety of subjects (you and have already spoken about #14 on the
Dynospectrum record--where he's witnessing that beatdown). One thing
about slug, as dope as he is technically, it doesn't overshadow the fact
that he's pouring his fucking SOUL onto the page. Like with
"scapegoat"--the rhymes are sick, but it's the emotion on that joint that
sets it apart form your 'average dope MC" (if that makes any sense).
Yup, I'd definitely put him up with mos def or Phaorohe....and just about
anyone else I can think of off the top of my head.
Peace,
_meenan
applesauce
: : that he's pouring his fucking SOUL onto the page. Like with
: : "scapegoat"--the rhymes are sick, but it's the emotion on that joint that
: what's crazy is, if you listen to that song closely, the rhymes aren't
: even that sick.
damn...i fucked up pretty bad on this one. I'm pretty out of it today...i
was thinking of primer when i wrote this. The lyrics to scapegoat are
extremely ill. This is the song i usually use to introduce people to
slug/atmosphere actually.
lo ciento,
applesauce
-----
"My name's alarm clock"
---Aesoprock
applesauce
: word up....I'd even go as far as to throw slug up there with my top ten.
dude's been in my top three for about the past year. Ever since deep
puddle tracks started surfacing...he was dope on overcast, but he's
stepped up a few notches since then. That shit was recorded back in like
96 or 97...now he's got jel doing production and ant sampling different
drums....damn near unstoppable package.
my semi-permanent top three:
acey
slug
siah
to round out the top five?
j-live
pos
followed closely by mos, andre, mikah....
: that he's pouring his fucking SOUL onto the page. Like with
: "scapegoat"--the rhymes are sick, but it's the emotion on that joint that
what's crazy is, if you listen to that song closely, the rhymes aren't
even that sick. They're pretty straight forward...it's MOSTLY the emotion
that sets it apart. That's one of the angriest songs i've ever heard.
And he sounds even more pissed on the radio edit (if you have the vinyl
ep, listen to both versions).
i don't even think we've heard the best of slug yet...that's the scary
part.
respecters,
B. David Harrison
With appropriate edits chaning "scapegoat" to "Primer" like saucy was
talking about...
> followed closely by mos, andre, mikah....
>
> : that he's pouring his fucking SOUL onto the page. Like with
> : "primer"--the rhymes are sick, but it's the emotion on that joint that
>
> what's crazy is, if you listen to that song closely, the rhymes aren't
> even that sick. They're pretty straight forward...it's MOSTLY the emotion
> that sets it apart. That's one of the angriest songs i've ever heard.
> And he sounds even more pissed on the radio edit (if you have the vinyl
> ep, listen to both versions).
Yup. Somebody posted the lyrics to this earlier and without hearing
it, it just sounds evil. But if you hear the way he delivers the song,
it's so damn powerful. So honest. It's hard to quantify, but there's
something terribly ill about the way he flows. When he punches into a
word, there's so much athority to it. There's just a ton of emotion. He
conveys angst like Mos Def does happy. And the angst doesn't come accorss
in a played out Fiona Apple like way.
The sad thing is, I don't think people totally get that song. I didn't
the first time I heard it.
B. David Harrison Anti-Knuckleheadosity:Last Updated 11/14/1999
T. Tauri
> Thanks for the explanation. I never really thought about it that way
> and after reading it I think that you have a point.
>
> BUT after lurking and posting on occasion at RMHH for the last three
> years I've finally come to realize that people on this newsgroup
> analyze Hip-Hop music a whole lot more than I do. Not to say that I'm
> some MTV bandwagon jumper (I'm 28 and have been listening to Hip-Hop
> since the Sugar Hill Gang), but musically, I either like it or I
> don't.
In this case, there's some formative antecedents for me. Going through
the 80s, depending on where your attention was, the attitude that so
many musicians (popular definition) had toward hip-hop and its methods
(along with other non-live stuff like electro, house, freestyle,
industrial, new wave) was strongly negative. Hearing the frequent
insults then has made me xtra sensitive about the biases that can be
brought to the table by the musicians' camp. Back then, they all hated
the music, so if you argued with them, whether they listened or not was
no skin off your back; but it's troubling when that same attitude
filters into hip-hop itself--the feeling that anyone who plays a 'real
instrument' is automatically more capable/honorable (I have an inkling
this same attitude, on some level, makes a lot of rap/rock crossovers
feel much better about themselves and their legitimacy than if they had
to get over on the same techniques as Primo), or they should deserve
pity points ("well, your beats aren't as dope as Large Pro's, but since
you played them yourselves..."), all the while failing to consider and
respect why people gravitated away from that method into hip-hop's in
the first place.
> There's nothing wrong with critical analysis, it just seems to me that
> if I was as critical as some of the people on this newsgroup I would
> rarely buy any Hip-Hop at all.
Depends--when artists or listeners start making claims about the music
greater than liking or disliking, it becomes important to see where
that's coming from and such. But true, there's a yin and yang to it.
> > I just wish more people could have heard The Sindecut....
>
> Who?What?Where?
T. Tauri
>
> >Maybe too much emphasis from J on the line-end rhymes, but
> >I can deal with that better.
>
> hey, Tauri, any emcees out there you do like? ha...just ribbing
> you...you seem awfully cynical lately though...maybe it's just my
> imagination...
:-) Most of my gripes are on the beat tip, though. The thing with J is:
on the basis of the Rawshack singles, I had an image of his flow
following in Rakim's footsteps in the sense that having words rhyme
didn't impede him from moving on to the next phrase--with the snippet of
"True School Anthem", the doubled-up vocal emphasis on the rhyming words
sort of messes with that desire of mine, a similar problem with "Them
That's Not"--little too much emphasis placed on the rhyme itself. If I
could ask J to do one thing it'd be to rap solo, no overdubs or backup,
and no unnecessary end-stop pauses. But straight up, I can't wait to put
"Yes" in my play crate. And there's still a lot of the album I have yet
to hear. I'm excited about it.
Peece,
T. Tauri
T. Tauri
>
> applesauce <r...@csd.uwm.edu> wrote:
>
> : : that he's pouring his fucking SOUL onto the page. Like with
> : : "scapegoat"--the rhymes are sick, but it's the emotion on that
>
> : what's crazy is, if you listen to that song closely, the rhymes
> : aren't even that sick.
>
> today...i was thinking of primer when i wrote this. The lyrics to
> scapegoat are extremely ill. This is the song i usually use to
> introduce people to slug/atmosphere actually.
Frankly, "Scapegoat" is, to me, Slug at his worst. It's this, it's that,
it's the other thing--it's a fucking list! You might as well throw on
that Alanis Morrisette song where she's going "I'm A, but I'm B, I'm C,
but I'm D..." and nod approvingly to that while you're at it. Blech!
You see the crescent, I see the whole of the moon.
Peece,
T. Tauri
applesauce
: it's the other thing--it's a fucking list!
it's original!
: You see the crescent, I see the whole of the moon.
i like the crescent better...it reminds me of those rolls my mom used to
make when i was a kid...
mmmmmmm.....butter.
you didn't like el-p's america either did you?
that explains it....
pooey on yooey,
AlanPage
>to
>support. It's natural to want those who share your background to feel your
>artwork and support it. 2)The problem, according to Todd, occurs when "your
>people" *don't*. While related, these two are definitely not the same. One
>deals with the musician, the other deals with his desired audience, or lack
>of.
Thanks for clearing that up, Buggzy. I was having trouble understanding his
point, but now I see it.
AlanPage
>you played them yourselves..."
this is the funniest shit I've read all week...
AlanPage
>ago...in my experience, jimi hendrix easily gets more props than elvis.
I disagree completely. Jimi Hendrix, to me, is clearly the far superior rock
musician. So, why is Elvis still considered the "king of rock-n-roll" when, by
FAR, he was not the best rock musician? That's Mos Def's issue in a nutshell...
>i've always thought little richard and chuck berry were nearly as well known
>as
>elvis.
The point is, IF RACISM NEVER EXISTED, they would/should be better known than
Elvis. They predated him and their careers continued strong long after he died.
Hell, Little Richard STILL rocks shows. For their contributions to rock, in a
fair world, Chuck Berry and Little Richard should have untold millions...again,
that is the crux of Mos Def's issue. The racial dynamics of this country robbed
these men of the due respect they deserve. Clearly either Chuck of Little
Richard should be deemed "King of Rock-n-Roll" for their outstanding
contributions and pioneering effort. Due to their skin color, this just didn't
happen and still hasn't happened...
>most folks, of our generation and younger, at least, just
>see elvis as this caricature.
Thanks to revisionist historians who are telling it how it should have
been...however, go down to the Bible belt and see how much love Elvis is
getting from whites mid-30's and up, compared to, say, the respect accorded
Chuck Berry. Shit, do a poll across America, who personifies rock-n-roll. I
guarantee you it won't be a black person...again, this is Mos Def's issue and
it's a very valid one...
AlanPage
>Album: Overcast
>Song: Scapegoat
well, that was fine quality lyrics there (ps: I believe one line was mistyped
by the transcriber, even without hearing the rhyme I know from context that
"giving" as transcribed in the line "It's the way you're giving knowledge"
should be "given").
However, although I think the quoted lyrics are excellent, I still fail to see
why someone would feel he "kills" Mos Def lyrically. In my opinion, such a
person is either (a) failing to listen closely to the lyrics on Mos Def's LP
(or songs like "Thieves in the Night" and "Respiration") or (b) there is an
even higher level of lyricism which Slug attains to which these quotes lyrics
pales in comparison.
ogami
I like that nigga Slug.
-ogami
--
--|------------
AlanPage
send me some Slug material. From what I hear, I'm looking forward to it.
Understand, I'm allergic to hyperbole, so usually I stay skeptical until I can
hear material from folks before I make a decision. Bear in mind that,
pre-Rawkus, Pharoah Monch was tied with Acey as my No. 1 emcee, period. So,
when someone said that Slug was better than pre-Rawkus Pharoah, I was like "Um,
yeah, okay whatever" because Pharoah has (pre-Rawkus) put together an amazing
track record. Don't think I'm dissing the Rawkus album, I just think
that...um...well, it's little different from his work with Organized, that's as
nicely as i can put it. he went down a different road.
Definitely want to check out Slug. I wonder if he named himself after the
organism "slug" or "slug" as in bullet.
applesauce
: just a Slug/Eyedea freestyle session.
they did this same thing in milwaukee last march. the topics were
internet porn and the great pumpkin.
my favorite shit with these two is on this freestyle session i have of
them on some college radio show in MN...its eyedea feeding ideas to slug,
just goofy shit...and at one point he says, "yo slug, tell em how you got
stabbed by a cucumber". Then of course slug comes up with some ill shit.
they did like a 5 minute thing on washing dishes too.
goofy.
I wish they would come out west man! I miss seeing atmos shows every
couple months...they used to dip through chicago and milwaukee all the
time. Hopefully i'll catch a show during the two weeks i'll be back home.
peacers,
augury
alan...@aol.com (AlanPage) wrote:
Bear in mind
> that,
> pre-Rawkus, Pharoah Monch was tied with Acey as my No. 1 emcee,
> period. So,
> when someone said that Slug was better than pre-Rawkus Pharoah, I
> was like "Um,
> yeah, okay whatever" because Pharoah has (pre-Rawkus) put together
> an amazing
> track record.
I think that past a certain point it's fruitless to try and rank these
heads. The only assertion I'm willing to make is that they're in the
same level of very high quality and skill. Are we gonna squabble over
"Slug is number two!" "Are you crazy, he's clearly number three and a
half, with Big Pun taking up slots three and a half through five!"
BTW, I wouldn't say Slug is better than pre-Rawkus PM, though.
And he used to go by Sluggo, so I think his name may stem from the
bald-headed kid in the comic strip "Nancy." I doubt Slug is named after
a bullet, he doesn't like guns very much (as evidenced by a couple of
Atmosphere songs).
--
richard Allen
T. Tauri
> What about UDS??? "Deeper Shade" had a fat video, they were good
> musicians, but fuck their emcee. Come to think of it, I think their
> emcee went home for 6 years, developed some skills, and became
> Iriscience (they sound exactly the same)
I put 'em closer to Fishbone than the Juice Crew. A funk-rock band that
made some moves toward hip-hop, but didn't really take their mode or
method from it. With The Sindecut, I could mix their jams out of Main
Source, and the audience wouldn't think I was changing direction. Didn't
feel the same way about UDS.
Peece,
T. Tauri
T. Tauri
>
> : Frankly, "Scapegoat" is, to me, Slug at his worst. It's this, it's
> : that, it's the other thing--it's a fucking list!
>
> it's original!
It's a run-on sentence, it's one thing after another
It's whiny like my little brother
It's troubled high schooler angst, it's sour grapes,
Socially maladjusted misanthropic landscapes
It's what gets on my nerves and makes me wince
It's from Minneapolis and it's not classic Prince!
> you didn't like el-p's america either did you?
>
> that explains it....
Don't think I know that one. Is it anything like Perry Ellis' America?
That smells nice.
Peece,
T. Tauri
applesauce
wrote:
>It's from Minneapolis and it's not classic Prince!
ehhhh, to each their own. I think it was dope how he took just about
all the stupid things that stupid people blame things on and put them
in one tune. Wordplay was dope too. And by the way, IT'S TECHNO.
>> you didn't like el-p's america either did you?
>Don't think I know that one. Is it anything like Perry Ellis' America?
actually, i guess i should have said company flow's "Patriotism". I
thought this was in a similar vein (sat down with a pen and paper
before he composed the lyrics and made a list of just about everything
that's wrong with the states). It was on soundbombing two.
>That smells nice.
IT'S POLO SPORT.
cinnimon and sugar crumbs on my counter,
applesauce
"I know that you respect me cause i study how i'm greeted"
--Slug
wesley...@my-deja.com
alan...@aol.com (AlanPage) wrote:
> >Artist: Atmosphere
> >Album: Overcast
> >Song: Scapegoat
>
> well, that was fine quality lyrics there (ps: I believe one line was
mistyped
> by the transcriber, even without hearing the rhyme I know from context
that
> "giving" as transcribed in the line "It's the way you're giving
knowledge"
> should be "given").
>
> However, although I think the quoted lyrics are excellent, I still
fail to see
> why someone would feel he "kills" Mos Def lyrically. In my opinion,
such a
> person is either (a) failing to listen closely to the lyrics on Mos
Def's LP
> (or songs like "Thieves in the Night" and "Respiration") or (b) there
is an
> even higher level of lyricism which Slug attains to which these quotes
lyrics
> pales in comparison.
>
>
> Spirit
> Spread Love/Amphibians
I was more speaking on both artists complete bod of work. I think Mos
shines on "Mathmatics", "Traveling Man", "Respiration", and "Rock N
Roll" and several joints. He is definatly top on the line.
But he also has songs like "Body Rock" in which he comes half assed.
Slug is a lot more diverse than Mos.
I wish i had the the time to transcibe "Abusing The Rib" which is Slug
intertwines Herion metaphors, train travel metaphors, and seasonal
metaphors seamlessly to describe his desire to climb into his lovers
soul. The dope thing is that its not an extended metaphor like
"Baseball" by Natural Resources, its straight up well written love song.
Also "Gods Bathroom Floor" in which Slug writes on the second life and
thoughts running through his head after a drug overdose.
There is "Multiples Pt 3" in which Slug goes through he lifelong
obsession with writing whether it be graffiti of emceeing.
Slug also writes humor, topical hip hop commentary, battle shit and its
all real personal.
He just has a greater body of work. He has the Sept Seven tape, the
Atmopshere album, his anticon material, Dynospectrum, and 6 other
headshot tapes, while Mos has the Blackstar album, his solo album, a few
camoes and a dope 12 inch.
Maybe that is just cause Slug owns his own label that he has the freedom
to be more prolific. i don't know.
I know I should'nt say he "kills" Mos, but I think Slug has written a
lot more good songs than Mos and he freestyles a hell of a
wesley...@my-deja.com
msg
I thought he came nicely on the "freestyle" track on lyricist lounge
(the only freestyle i've heard of his). He didn't have the relentless
rhymes of Com, but he packed them with so much oomph that the rest of
the MCs were just "daaamn!", especially that line about choppin
cocaine. i guess just more proof of pharoahe's flow superiority.
anyway, it cemented me a pharoahe fan.
edmund
msg
<ea...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> applesauce wrote:
> >
> > : Frankly, "Scapegoat" is, to me, Slug at his worst. It's this,
> it's
> > : that, it's the other thing--it's a fucking list!
> >
> > it's original!
> It's a run-on sentence, it's one thing after another
> It's whiny like my little brother
> It's troubled high schooler angst, it's sour grapes,
> Socially maladjusted misanthropic landscapes
> It's what gets on my nerves and makes me wince
Haha, nice rebuttal. But, if, as others have pointed out, it's the
delivery that pushes this song into the upper echelons (yeah, i know,
atmosphere) then this song is absolutely unfuckably dope. Reading the
lyrics, I'm impressed but if the delivery matches--then Van Damme!
> > you didn't like el-p's america either did you?
I think that's the precisely worst example (sorry sauce). EL-P has dope
lyrics, but his flow, particularly in this song, suffers from
too-many-words syndrome. Mos' "Hip Hop" is the better parallel for
list-like lyrics. Not only are the lyrics dope and conscious but the
passion in his voice earns that song a spot in the temple of hip hop,
imfo. Every newjack should listen to it and think hard before s/he
starts writing about backing that ass up.
Anyway, list-lyrics are cool b/c they simulate a flood of emotions and
feelings busting out and washing you away. each word a slug, ripping
you open.
violins,
edmund
/meatheads stare and gawk
Tony1er
: Frankly, "Scapegoat" is, to me, Slug at his worst. It's this, it's
> : that, it's the other thing--it's a fucking list!
It's list but it's not like a list of things that are comletely irrelevent. I
asssume the title explains the song and the motives behind what he's saying.
it's not slug at his best but it's an interesting idea and to see him kick it
live would change your view on it. some amping shit.
later tony
ogami
>
>
> Maybe that is just cause Slug owns his own label that he has the freedom
> to be more prolific. i don't know.
hahahahahaaaaaa. I bet Slug would like to hear that. He doesnt own his
own label. unless he just said fuck RSE and went for dolo.
oh shit
-ogami
--
--|------------
applesauce
:> > you didn't like el-p's america either did you?
: I think that's the precisely worst example (sorry sauce). EL-P has dope
: lyrics, but his flow, particularly in this song, suffers from
: too-many-words syndrome. Mos' "Hip Hop" is the better parallel for
: list-like lyrics.
i wasn't really speaking in terms of list like lyrics...more along the
lines of conciseness. Slug runs through just about every popular excuse
known to mankind, and El-p runs through most of the major things
wrong with the united snakes of america.
Flowise/dictionwise/deliverywise? Two completely different categories.
degree of applicability? highly comperable.
: /meatheads stare and gawk
you cheated. but i understand....m, s, and g are three hard letters to
work with....when i tried writing one that one time, it seriously took me
like 5 minutes to come up with something crafty.
respecters,
applesauce
jmr
/just my ribaldness
msg
> i wasn't really speaking in terms of list like lyrics...more along
> the lines of conciseness. Slug runs through just about every popular
> excuse known to mankind, and El-p runs through most of the major
> things wrong with the united snakes of america.
> Flowise/dictionwise/deliverywise? Two completely different
> categories. degree of applicability? highly comperable.
makes sense. too elaborate on the mos def example, i would point out
that his observations are actually wittier than slug's list. slug's
list works very well within the concept, while mos' is just flat out
brilliant in and out the concept. "official sponsor of the black
glock/gold medalist in the backshot" = my single favorite hip hop rhyme
of the year = why I can't stop raving bout it.
> : /meatheads stare and gawk
> you cheated. but i understand....m, s, and g are three hard
> letters to work with....when i tried writing one that one time, it
> seriously took me like 5 minutes to come up with something crafty.
you know, i could have bent the rules by adding a comma:
meatheads stare, gawk (sounds like an Onion article)
man, i feel trapped within my own scheme. three words typically make
terse sentencess, plus that damn 'g' always trips me up. if only i had
named myself after mystery science theater or sometin. i shoulda been
smarter like MURS and gotten another letter.
still at work,
edmund
/must stay grumpy
Shaun G.
"T. Tauri" <ea...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> My big beef with The Roots is that they view the technical aspects
> mostly unique to hip-hop production (using samplers, studio
technology,
> DJs) from a very pre-hip-hop band-oriented/instrument-playing
viewpoint.
< rest of post snipped >
I really think that you should copy this post and send it to
www.okayplayer.com , which is the Roots fan site. ?estLove usually
posts there when comments are directed at him, so I'm curious to hear
what he has to say on this. Since it is a fan site expect to get some
"you're a Roots hater" type replies.
--
Peace,
Shaun G.
Shaun G.
"T. Tauri" <ea...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
> In this case, there's some formative antecedents for me. Going through
> the 80s, depending on where your attention was, the attitude that so
> many musicians (popular definition) had toward hip-hop and its methods
> (along with other non-live stuff like electro, house, freestyle,
> industrial, new wave) was strongly negative. Hearing the frequent
> insults then has made me xtra sensitive about the biases that can be
> brought to the table by the musicians' camp. Back then, they all hated
> the music, so if you argued with them, whether they listened or not
was
> no skin off your back; but it's troubling when that same attitude
> filters into hip-hop itself--the feeling that anyone who plays a 'real
> instrument' is automatically more capable/honorable (I have an inkling
> this same attitude, on some level, makes a lot of rap/rock crossovers
> feel much better about themselves and their legitimacy than if they
had
> to get over on the same techniques as Primo), or they should deserve
since
> you played them yourselves..."), all the while failing to consider and
> respect why people gravitated away from that method into hip-hop's in
> the first place.
Although a lot of the musicians who complained about Hip-Hop were just
giving off j and e, in some cases I agree with them. If a Hip-Hop
producer samples a track that someone else has done with instruments and
doesn't change it radically (more than speeding it up or slowing it
down) how is it somehow better than the original musician who played it?
There are definitely producers out there like DJ Premier who take things
to another level, but to me he's more than exception than the rule.
As for the Large Pro comment, if all Large Pro has done is sampled
another artist's instrumental and added a different drum beat to it,
while the band played a original composition, I'm giving more credit to
the band regardless if Large Pro's beat is better to my ears.
I've never produced tracks so if I'm wrong on this you can correct me,
but if a sampler has no music to sample what can it create?
AlanPage
>like the best emcee, but to say that he was up there with mos def and
>pharoah.
were the person who said that "lyrically, slug kills mos def"? because that's
not saying he's "up there" with Mos, that's saying he's far above Mos...which
I'll have to hear to believe...the quote someone listed to me put him on par
with Mos, not far above...
>you seemed to find it hard to believe that someone could think
>slug was better than mos def
I find it very hard to believe that he "kills" Mos lyrically, as if Mos was
Puffy and Slug was Acey.
>but i think they are definitely comparable.
That's not the issue. You, or someone on here, was implying that Slug "killed"
Mos Def lyrically, i.e. he was far superior lyrically. I still want to hear
this cat, but I hate hype...
>have
>heard of pharoah freestyling, he's not that good.
I have heard Pharoah freestyle. He is average.
>slug has some really
>deep concepts, incl. "god's bathroom floor" using drug addiction as a
>methaphor for his relationship with his son (sort of...), "scapegoat,"
>several others. none of them are really like "stray bullet,"
someone else told me he was better than pre-rawkus pharoah...if his metaphors
weren't as intricate as pre-rawkus pharoah, then he must beat pharoah in some
other department, but i can't think of one emcee who beats Pharoah in the flow
department and Pharoah also has, well actually HAD, a dope stage show...last
time I saw him, he was running out of breath, but he is asthmatic, so, I
dunno..when I saw him with Prince Po, his breath control was flawless...
>he can do introspective shit, battle shit,
>story-telling, he's really versatile. and in the charisma department, i'd
>say he's up there with mos def or aceyalone.
Up there is not better...basically, the person with whom I spoke said Slug was
better than pre-rwkus pharoah and also better than aceyalone, now that I think
about it. I was like 'Yeah right, I'll believe it when I hear it". I *have*
heard Acey freestyle and heard him battle and, well, to call someone a better
MC than Acey, sheeit, you gotta hit me with some kind of evidence/music.
Peace,
Spirit
Spread Love/Amphibians
I try to love everyone...but it seems like everyone is trying to annoy me...
AlanPage
Yo, Tauri, don't you get thristy drinking from that half empty glass? Ha...
AlanPage
>in a played out Fiona Apple like way.
Heeeeeeey, I *like* Fiona Apple!!! What's with all the apple-hating in the
world lately? "Tidal" was a real dope album...and, by the way, being that she
was raped at the age of 12, I'm willing to wager that a great deal of her angst
is real...
AlanPage
>stabbed by a cucumber". Then of course slug comes up with some ill shit.
hahahaha. I'm liking this guy already.
Well, I believe it was Nesta who I asked to send me a tape. I'll post up when I
get to hear/study/vibe to it.
>they did like a 5 minute thing on washing >dishes too.
I did a five minute freestyle on gardening once...odd shit...to many hoe
references though...ha...this was my pre-poilitically correct phase...