slug and aesop rock in urb
Noixe, the other Adrock
about fame and race. aes rock talks about not touring. el-p guest
stars and sounds like aesop's dad. it's kind of funny.
anyways slug seems noticably miffed at the whole
no-black-kids-at-his-show aesthetic. I'm fully aware we got this
reoccurring theme in america where black people create the music and
white kids take it and run with it for the next 50-100 years, but is
this the first time the white kids at the front line of the cultural
transfer have expressed extensive guilt about it? I'm pretty sure
Jerry lee Lewis didn't give a fuck.
xlucasx
news:123d389.03112...@posting.google.com:
> anyways slug seems noticably miffed at the whole
> no-black-kids-at-his-show aesthetic. I'm fully aware we got this
> reoccurring theme in america where black people create the music and
> white kids take it and run with it for the next 50-100 years, but is
> this the first time the white kids at the front line of the cultural
> transfer have expressed extensive guilt about it? I'm pretty sure
> Jerry lee Lewis didn't give a fuck.
honestly, who cares what races of people are at shows? as long as
everyone is free to go to the show if they choose, assuming they get a
ticket before it sells out or something, who cares? does slug feel like
he needs some kind of validation by having black kids at his shows?
i just think the whole thing is silly. i don't care if the whole show
is eskimos, norwegians, or nigerians...if it's a good show and people
aren't being dicks, i'm happy. i really see no good reason at all to
get hung up about it.
--
lucas
AOL IM: lucas9000
"Real men don't dance. They sit, sweat, and curse."
- Bill Hicks
Roy Cohnhead
> cover story, two really good interviews with both cats. slug talks
I don't see where race needs to factor so heavily into hip-hop, at this
point. If black people ain't feelin' it, if they can't relate, so be it.
This almost has shades of "We're ashamed to be white", just like Third Bass
used to express. Slug holds it down, and he should be satisfied with that.
When you compare what the average black/white person here in Louisiana
listens to, it is about as diametrically-opposed to Slug's brand of music
that you can get. If he wants to capture that audience, he needs to check
his brain at the door and write some Bounce shit about new shirts or
something.
bse
xlucasx <sucki...@microsoft.com> wrote:
I do.
HIphop without black people is like Ice Hockey without Canadians.
It's not a case of every show needs to have black people there, it's a
case of what is hiphop if it isn't appealing to black people as well as
white people?
Anyone thinking 100+ thread here?
BSE
--
"Most incredibly!"
To reply by email, remove "YOURHANDSFROMYOURLAP".
http://www.ukseen.com/nice
http://www.ukseen.com/kmd
Andrew L.
"Before I left for Brazil I spoke at BOB LAW'S 'Turn Off the Radio'
campaign in Brooklyn. It seems that so many people are caught in the
radiation that they underestimate today's programming power of new mind
control and propaganda. BOB LAW and others who understand know that the
hidden hand of commerce has censored intelligent black voices, art and
opinion over the airwaves. It trickles down to even this months URB magazine
where rapper MURS from Def Jux asks rapper SLUG from Atmosphere/Rhymesayers
'Why he doesn't have any black fans and why Murs doesn't have any at all?'
SLUG had no answer. At the root of this is post-slave mentality and good ole
amerikkkan racism.
Black people follow programming wherever it's at as long as it has a black
voice or face with it. Radiation of a radio-TV-nation has folk pied-pipered
like wallpaper to these formerly black owned niche institutions, now owned
by 'other' based corporations for the so- called sake of green. If it ain't
on BET, 106 and Park, white-owned black-faced music urban radio stations,
UPN, WB, or maybe some black athlete playing it loud in the back of some
ESPN interview, it stands to remain UNKNOWN.
That's why MURS has no black fans and he doesn't have white fans because the
barriers between the relations are still high in amerikkka. The saying 'if
its hot it'll shine anyway' and 'may the best jam win' is bullsh*t when you
talk about how and what is gonna get on the airwaves of amerikkka. Again,
let the web at least be the foundation of setting your art free. More
intellectual rap artists won't get on the radio because it's dumbed down for
12 year old consumption.
Yes, hip hop and rap seems bigger than ever and appears the same but it's
like the first PLANET OF THE APES where Mr. NRA Charlton Heston finds his
fellow captured comrade across the yard. He runs up to him expecting to be
just as recognized, but to no avail. As he rolls up to him he notices a scar
on the side of his temple. He screams "you bastards cut out his brain so he
wouldn't talk". So what the top 10 had all hip hop, the brain has been cut
out along with what some say, the soul left long ago. All that appears is
the body. Thus many say rap has had a lobotomy. The smarter and more
skillful MURS becomes the more obscure he will be to his people. More on
this below the kneecap of this t-dome."
http://www.publicenemy.com/terrordome.php
"Roy Cohnhead" <SPAMj...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Xns943E8F9F39D646...@216.168.3.44...
Lau Kar Fai 510
>From: noi...@yahoo.com
>anyways slug seems noticably miffed at the whole
>no-black-kids-at-his-show aesthetic. I'm fully aware we got this
>reoccurring theme in america where black people create the music and
>white kids take it and run with it for the next 50-100 years, but is
>this the first time the white kids at the front line of the cultural
>transfer have expressed extensive guilt about it? I'm pretty sure
>Jerry lee Lewis didn't give a fuck.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Good point, but bad metaphor.
The question should be, does Eminem care?
Eminem = Jerry Lee Lewis in your equation, not Slug..
plus, Slugs black
(yet still a leader in the whiteboy underground movement, yes I see that point)
STRATEGY
Nestajones
>Date: 11/25/2003 10:38 PM Eastern Standard Time
>plus, Slugs black
you are what you are perceived to be
Lau Kar Fai 510
>From: nesta...@aol.com
>>plus, Slugs black
>
>you are what you are perceived to be
only superficially, and by who?
"them"
STRATEGY
quest19...@webtv.net
<<anyways slug seems noticably miffed at the whole
no-black-kids-at-his-show aesthetic. I'm fully aware we got this
reoccurring theme in america where black people create the music and
white kids take it and run with it for the next 50-100 years, but is
this the first time the white kids at the front line of the cultural
transfer have expressed extensive guilt about it? I'm pretty sure Jerry
lee Lewis didn't give a fuck.>>
I saw the High & Mighty along with Cage(first time I've ever seen him),
Akrobatik, and Chief Kamachi. And yes, I must say as well(in the
reverse) that it's actually somewhat off-putting to see so
many(virtually ALL) whites at a Hip Hop show, I've started going back to
shows strong since 1998. This IS however 2003, and the climate in Hip
Hop(and everytthing attached to it) is more diverse as opposed to the
year 1986. Sure, white kids were there but nowhere near how it is now.
But something to chew on here...what's considered "underground" is where
I tend to see more whites. WUSL(Power 99FM) does a yearly "Power House"
and all the radio types appear(R. Kelly, Jigga Boo, Fabolous, Trina,
etc.), and it is virtually all black in its attendance. But if you say
Dilated Peoples, Hieroglyphics, Atmosphere, or The X-ecutioners, whites
kill it in terms of attendance. In fact, Power 99 never once even
advertised that the Philadelphia-based High & Mighty even had a show
last night prior to its' jump-off. Talk about dissin'! So, I actually
feel Slug in a reverse sort of way. However, I feel his "dilemma"(for
lack of a better term) is one of marketing, because if he(and other
so-called underground acts) was afforded similar air/video time in the
mainstream, black kids would have to bow down as to how nice they are.
And those kids would start to really take the bullsh*t acts(the whole
Wack-A-Fella for starters) to task relative to what they're putting out.
PEACE!
Nestajones
>>>plus, Slugs black
>>
>>you are what you are perceived to be
>
>only superficially, and by who?
by me. i'll be putting people in their boxes from now on.
anyway, while i'm aware that slug is like 1/8 black or whatever, he doesn't
look black. i think he's mostly white, i think he looks white, i think most
people think he looks white, most people most likely treat him as if he's
white. that makes him white. whatever that means.
xlucasx
news:bse-3839EA.2...@news-text.blueyonder.co.uk:
> HIphop without black people is like Ice Hockey without Canadians.
>
> It's not a case of every show needs to have black people there, it's a
> case of what is hiphop if it isn't appealing to black people as well
> as white people?
who cares who it's appealing to? how can you say that your appreciation
of the music is altered at all if no black people like the artist you
like. say you're sitting at home alone, listening to some white
hip-hopper, and liking the music. if, unbeknownst to you, no black
people happen to like what you're listening to (and this assumes that
you are white), does that have any effect on the music you're listening
to? no. it simply can't. the only way it can have an effect is if you
have some kind of racial issue going on in your own mind.
and fwiw, i doubt there will ever come a time when hip hop will be
totally unappealing to all black people, just like it will never be
totally unappealing to all white people.
bse
xlucasx <sucki...@microsoft.com> wrote:
> bse <b...@YOURHANDSFROMYOURLAPukseen.com> wrote in
> news:bse-3839EA.2...@news-text.blueyonder.co.uk:
>
> > HIphop without black people is like Ice Hockey without Canadians.
> >
> > It's not a case of every show needs to have black people there, it's a
> > case of what is hiphop if it isn't appealing to black people as well
> > as white people?
>
> who cares who it's appealing to? how can you say that your appreciation
> of the music is altered at all if no black people like the artist you
> like. say you're sitting at home alone, listening to some white
> hip-hopper, and liking the music. if, unbeknownst to you, no black
> people happen to like what you're listening to (and this assumes that
> you are white), does that have any effect on the music you're listening
> to? no. it simply can't. the only way it can have an effect is if you
> have some kind of racial issue going on in your own mind.
Right yeah. i thought we were talking about going to shows no?
> and fwiw, i doubt there will ever come a time when hip hop will be
> totally unappealing to all black people, just like it will never be
> totally unappealing to all white people.
sure.
The point being... WHY are certain rappers not appealing at all to black
kids? What is it they aren't saying/doing?
Mr Bounce
> Wack-A-Fella for starters)
this is badly OT with regards to this thread but im wondering what you
make of Kanye wests solo stuff?
The Mospeda
these majority white shows. Mind you, I'm from Atlanta and when i was
in college (morehouse) i got to see some classic shit (Outkast during
their first album about 3 times, goodie mob before their album even
dropped, Common Sense and Mack 10's infamous showdown on the Morris
brown campus, with a drunk common ranting on about "bitches",Method
Man in a gym when he first performed "Bring the Pain"). The shows i've
seen with Copywright,Mr.Lif,Cage,pharcyde,beatnuts yadda yadda.. PALE
in comparison. It doesn't help that the fanbase is nerdariffic. Kids
don't groove when the DJ throws on classic records. I feel that this
music is a fad to them. They'll be bumping Mars Volta next year while
their god awful "underground" 12-inches rot in the basement . Call me
a bigot too, but it's like Rock. There will never be a white chuck
berry (though the rolling stones came close) or a Bo Diddley, just as
there will NEVER be a white Devin the Dude or Outkast. The music just
hits me different. Some of these white artists (Apathy,Esoteric) try
too hard.
Bay Way 41510
> >From: laukar...@aol.com (Lau Kar Fai 510)
> >Date: 11/25/2003 10:55 PM Eastern Standard Time
>
> >>>plus, Slugs black
> >>
> >>you are what you are perceived to be
> >
> >only superficially, and by who?
>
> by me. i'll be putting people in their boxes from now on.
>
> anyway, while i'm aware that slug is like 1/8 black or whatever
my mistake then, I thought he was 1/2, I guess I read it on here
somewhere
, he doesn't
> look black. i think he's mostly white, i think he looks white, i think most
> people think he looks white, most people most likely treat him as if he's
> white. that makes him white. whatever that means.
I've never seen him. I should be getting comps to an Anticon show
coming up, so maybe I'll go so I can ask him
STRATEGY
xlucasx
news:bse-F6238A.0...@news-text.blueyonder.co.uk:
>> news:bse-3839EA.2...@news-text.blueyonder.co.uk:
>>
>> > HIphop without black people is like Ice Hockey without Canadians.
>> >
>> > It's not a case of every show needs to have black people there,
>> > it's a case of what is hiphop if it isn't appealing to black people
>> > as well as white people?
>>
>> who cares who it's appealing to? how can you say that your
>> appreciation of the music is altered at all if no black people like
>> the artist you like. say you're sitting at home alone, listening to
>> some white hip-hopper, and liking the music. if, unbeknownst to you,
>> no black people happen to like what you're listening to (and this
>> assumes that you are white), does that have any effect on the music
>> you're listening to? no. it simply can't. the only way it can have
>> an effect is if you have some kind of racial issue going on in your
>> own mind.
>
> Right yeah. i thought we were talking about going to shows no?
well my same argument applies to shows. if you close your eyes at a
show, or maybe you're blind, and you're feeling the music, does the race
of the other people who are there matter at all? it can't, for the same
reason i explained above.
Kuahmel Allah
My cousin says for black folks (and ladies) to go, "it has to be a platinum
cat"....I'd hope not, because that's asking for a lot, and not helping an act
build itself.
I think it's the sound. If you ain't got that sound that appeals to black
folks (or the ladies), they ain't checking for you. If that sound just ain't
the thing you create, unless you're really after it and wanna go against what
your resources and talent can come with, you'll have to live with it being all
non-black and male...
That's right, it ain't just all-white, it's just predominantly non-black like
that, with NO ladies. Because the ladies are off to the club to get cats to
buy them drinks so they can shake their butts to top 40 hits and juice guys who
drive Escalades....
--Kuahmel Allah, Los Angeles
"LOS ANGELES!!!"--Krondon
"For God's sake, eat a burger!!!"--Calista Flockhart
"I rep for the hood!!!"--RossAndersen
bse
xlucasx <sucki...@microsoft.com> wrote:
Does the race "matter"? No. Does the vibe of the crowd at a live show
matter? Yes. Does a hiphop artist (esp a black one) who fails to attract
any black audience have some searching to do? Yes.
bse
blackn...@aol.compostheap (Kuahmel Allah) wrote:
> Some say it's the marketing, or the topics....
>
> My cousin says for black folks (and ladies) to go, "it has to be a platinum
> cat"....I'd hope not, because that's asking for a lot, and not helping an act
> build itself.
Look at acts like the Pharcyde. They can pull a black audience anywhere
I'd bet. They had like ONE big pop hit, the rest is all hiphop hits and
album tracks.
It's very interesting. It's hard to get into a discourse about the "vibe
of the crowd" that I was talking about earlier without resorting to
stereotypes, but... when Tauri was over here the other week we were
lamenting the loss of crowd reaction that an all white audience brings.
For instance no BO!s anymore, this all white crowd seems indie rock
raised and claps at the beginning of songs!?!?
This is not to say that no white heads know how to act at a show, more
that the last 5 years worth of new recruits didn't ever try to fit in,
they just took over. By saying that were back to "Oi anticon, stop
trying to lead the way" again but I'm putting this on the fans.
When I started going to hiphop shows (aged about 14 I guess) I was all
about fitting in and learning from the crowds and being a part of
something, cos there weren't 50 of me at the show that I could slide in
with. If you are younf and white going to a show now with no live
experience, your not gonna feel at all on your own because theres
porbably 1/3 of the crowd in that same situation. Partly this is GROWTH
but at some point you have to admit that a whole lot of people have LEFT
the scene, or don't go out anymore.
To the older heads on here who have said they don't go to shows anymore,
can you talk about why?
xlucasx
news:bse-413BB8.0...@news-text.blueyonder.co.uk:
> Does the vibe of the crowd at a live show
> matter? Yes. Does a hiphop artist (esp a black one) who fails to
> attract any black audience have some searching to do? Yes.
what do you mean by this? if it means what i think it means, it's
ridiculous. but, i don't want to put words in your mouth so please
elaborate on what you're trying to say.
bse
xlucasx <sucki...@microsoft.com> wrote:
> bse <b...@YOURHANDSFROMYOURLAPukseen.com> wrote in
> news:bse-413BB8.0...@news-text.blueyonder.co.uk:
>
> > Does the vibe of the crowd at a live show
> > matter? Yes. Does a hiphop artist (esp a black one) who fails to
> > attract any black audience have some searching to do? Yes.
>
> what do you mean by this? if it means what i think it means, it's
> ridiculous. but, i don't want to put words in your mouth so please
> elaborate on what you're trying to say.
What I'm saying is that Hiphop is a form of black music. Or black
american music if you will. If an artist is making this music in an area
with black people, and none of them are interested, then there is
something going on there.
When hiphop stops being relevent or interesting to black people then
hiphop has lost it's way somewhere?
A to the L
<b...@YOURHANDSFROMYOURLAPukseen.com> said:
>To the older heads on here who have said they don't go to shows anymore,
>can you talk about why?
I'll go into much greater detail in my review of the Gang Starr gig
(coming to a post near you soon) but what you said is the main reason.
People don't know how to act. A lotta new muhfuckas going to shows and
copying what they;ve seen in videos to know how to behave... head to
toe Fubu-rocking cats, who wave their arms over their head and flash
some kind of strange 2-fingered gang signs every 30 seconds cos they
maybe once saw someone do it in a DMX video. (wow that was a long
sentence). In most cases (mainly because of where I'm at, but also cos
of how the music has grown so popular) these people are white.
And its embarassing...
And I feel almost like some kind of snob for writing what I just
wrote...
PEACH
A to the L
"I hope ya family got love for you soldier - cos one of them gon be your organ donor"
"Dipset Dipset Dipset Dipset Dipset Dipset Dipset Dipset Dipset Dipset Dipset Dipset Dipset Dip...Set"
arkarda
> bse <b...@YOURHANDSFROMYOURLAPukseen.com> wrote in
> news:bse-3839EA.2...@news-text.blueyonder.co.uk:
>
> > HIphop without black people is like Ice Hockey without Canadians.
> >
> > It's not a case of every show needs to have black people there, it's a
> > case of what is hiphop if it isn't appealing to black people as well
> > as white people?
>
> who cares who it's appealing to?
I only have one major sh*t stirring
thing to add to all this and that is:-
JAZZ MUSIC.
Started out black as Spades.
Let's not even talk about ROCK.
Arkrada.
I wanna be serrated
news:c7462d9f.03112...@posting.google.com:
Jazz is almost the whitest music out there, anymore.
--
I am Jason Gortician
arkarda
> Some say it's the marketing, or the topics....
>
> My cousin says for black folks (and ladies) to go, "it has to be a platinum
> cat"....I'd hope not, because that's asking for a lot, and not helping an act
> build itself.
>
> I think it's the sound. If you ain't got that sound that appeals to black
> folks (or the ladies), they ain't checking for you. If that sound just ain't
> the thing you create, unless you're really after it and wanna go against what
> your resources and talent can come with, you'll have to live with it being >all non-black and male...
>
> That's right, it ain't just all-white, it's just predominantly non-black like
> that, with NO ladies. Because the ladies are off to the club to get cats to
> buy them drinks so they can shake their butts to top 40 hits and juice guys >who drive Escalades....
ROTFL!!!!!
> --Kuahmel Allah, Los Angeles
> "LOS ANGELES!!!"--Krondon
> "For God's sake, eat a burger!!!"--Calista Flockhart
> "I rep for the hood!!!"--RossAndersen
Arkarda.
suntzu
> In article <20031126170726...@mb-m11.aol.com>,
> blackn...@aol.compostheap (Kuahmel Allah) wrote:
>
>
>>Some say it's the marketing, or the topics....
>>
>>My cousin says for black folks (and ladies) to go, "it has to be a platinum
>>cat"....I'd hope not, because that's asking for a lot, and not helping an act
>>build itself.
>
>
> Look at acts like the Pharcyde. They can pull a black audience anywhere
> I'd bet. They had like ONE big pop hit, the rest is all hiphop hits and
> album tracks.
>
> It's very interesting. It's hard to get into a discourse about the "vibe
> of the crowd" that I was talking about earlier without resorting to
> stereotypes, but... when Tauri was over here the other week we were
> lamenting the loss of crowd reaction that an all white audience brings.
> For instance no BO!s anymore, this all white crowd seems indie rock
> raised and claps at the beginning of songs!?!?
man, i never (or rarely, at least) see that at shows. i mean, i saw
four tet and prefuse 73 a few weeks ago, and even that crowd was nothing
like you describe. i mean, those two acts as much as any should draw a
lot of stereotypical nerds and backpackers. and there may have been a
lot of nerds and backpackers there, but everyone was just into the show
havin a good time. it didn't look like people were there just to be
cool or anything.
Kuahmel Allah
>
> Started out black as Spades.
>
> Let's not even talk about ROCK.
>
> Arkrada.
>
Jazz is almost the whitest music out there, anymore.
<<<
I can walk down the hill to World Stage....or stay right at home and dig thru
my crates, and not feel that way...maybe some of you bump the local Smooth Jazz
station too much....
Kuahmel Allah
can you talk about why?<<<<
I still go to shows, but basically in the "Unity era" out here (the 90s), there
just used to be much more activity. ladies walking around, chants, circles,
people going "OHHHHHH!" when the DJ threw the ill cut on, just lots more
participation and action.....FAR less standing around....this backpacker era
waits for stuff to happen, waits for people to tell them what to do....and
yeah, I do believe that black folks don't want to be around predominatly
non-black non-female crowds. It's just boring.
Bushzilla
> I can walk down the hill to World Stage....or stay right at home and
> dig thru my crates, and not feel that way...maybe some of you bump the
> local Smooth Jazz station too much....
There is more than just Smooth Jazz out there? ; )
I do live near New Orleans. But the "face" of modern jazz, to me, is a
bunch of noodling white fusion guys, like Stanley Jordan.
Damn, I found a Primo remix of a Sade song, King of Sorrow. And another one
with Krayzie Bone.
xlucasx
news:bse-F89B9C.0...@news-text.blueyonder.co.uk:
> In article <Xns94403F8A29F...@130.133.1.4>,
> xlucasx <sucki...@microsoft.com> wrote:
>
>> bse <b...@YOURHANDSFROMYOURLAPukseen.com> wrote in
>> news:bse-413BB8.0...@news-text.blueyonder.co.uk:
>>
>> > Does the vibe of the crowd at a live show
>> > matter? Yes. Does a hiphop artist (esp a black one) who fails to
>> > attract any black audience have some searching to do? Yes.
>>
>> what do you mean by this? if it means what i think it means, it's
>> ridiculous. but, i don't want to put words in your mouth so please
>> elaborate on what you're trying to say.
>
> What I'm saying is that Hiphop is a form of black music. Or black
> american music if you will. If an artist is making this music in an
> area with black people, and none of them are interested, then there is
> something going on there.
> When hiphop stops being relevent or interesting to black people then
> hiphop has lost it's way somewhere?
>
> BSE
>
we could go around and around in circles forever, but what this all
boils down to is that you're wayyyy too hung up on race, and i think you
have some issues with it.
bse
xlucasx <sucki...@microsoft.com> wrote:
> >> > Does the vibe of the crowd at a live show
> >> > matter? Yes. Does a hiphop artist (esp a black one) who fails to
> >> > attract any black audience have some searching to do? Yes.
> >>
> >> what do you mean by this? if it means what i think it means, it's
> >> ridiculous. but, i don't want to put words in your mouth so please
> >> elaborate on what you're trying to say.
> >
> > What I'm saying is that Hiphop is a form of black music. Or black
> > american music if you will. If an artist is making this music in an
> > area with black people, and none of them are interested, then there is
> > something going on there.
> > When hiphop stops being relevent or interesting to black people then
> > hiphop has lost it's way somewhere?
> >
> > BSE
> >
>
> we could go around and around in circles forever, but what this all
> boils down to is that you're wayyyy too hung up on race, and i think you
> have some issues with it.
So you don't think race is an important part of hiphop?
bse
suntzu <sun...@freeshell.org> wrote:
Well thats a worst case scenario.
I guess people aren't feeling me but whatever. It is a shame that the
atmosphere has been lost (it's probably worse in london) and it's got a
lot to do with the segregation. Thingy can say I'm obsessed with race
but that's missing the point. When i got into HIphop it was all mixed,
all london, all people, every time, and that has been lost. If you don't
think thats sad, or important, your a living fool.
xlucasx
news:bse-952585.1...@news-text.blueyonder.co.uk:
>> we could go around and around in circles forever, but what this all
>> boils down to is that you're wayyyy too hung up on race, and i think
>> you have some issues with it.
>
> So you don't think race is an important part of hiphop?
>
not per se. hip hop is about music and having fun and, to a certain
extent, expanding peoples' horizons. also, imo, i think the
accessibility of hip hop is important (ie, that anyone can start
breaking, or that anyone can start rhyming, regardless of race, etc).
it's not about a quota of having a certain number of one race and a
certain number of another.
suntzu
well, okay, yeah, the crowds i see at most hip-hop shows (and i guess
the least backpacker-ish show i've gone to in a long while is the roots)
are still pretty diverse. definitely not a majority black people, maybe
even a majority white (i guess like 50-60% most times), but generally
very diverse and everyone getting along pretty well. so i guess if it's
due to segregation i haven't really been seeing that since i don't feel
like it's very segregated for me. hopefully it won't start moving in
that direction.
suntzu
> okay. First and foremost, I'm black and have ventured out to a few of
> these majority white shows. Mind you, I'm from Atlanta and when i was
> in college (morehouse) i got to see some classic shit (Outkast during
> their first album about 3 times, goodie mob before their album even
> dropped, Common Sense and Mack 10's infamous showdown on the Morris
> brown campus, with a drunk common ranting on about "bitches",Method
> Man in a gym when he first performed "Bring the Pain"). The shows i've
> seen with Copywright,Mr.Lif,Cage,pharcyde,beatnuts yadda yadda.. PALE
> in comparison. It doesn't help that the fanbase is nerdariffic. Kids
> don't groove when the DJ throws on classic records. I feel that this
> music is a fad to them. They'll be bumping Mars Volta next year while
the kids that are gonna be switching from atmosphere to mars volta to
try and stay trendy are few and far between. they exist, no doubt, but
most people who like both probably genuinely like both.
mochaspresso
wrote:
>
>There is more than just Smooth Jazz out there? ; )
>I do live near New Orleans. But the "face" of modern jazz, to me, is a
>bunch of noodling white fusion guys, like Stanley Jordan.
>
grrrrrrrrr.......
...Stanley Jordan shouldn't be lumped into that category.
Imo. the "face" of modern jazz is kinda like the "face" of modern
hip-hop. Those "face" are a lot like the face on the cover of a Vogue
or Vanity Fair mag. It's airbrushed and photoshopped to look like
something it truly isn't. The mainstream media outlets are rarely
interested in portraying that "face" accurately.
-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->
Mochaspresso
Hello dorkness, my old friend
news:p5cgsvghn9mt9k9ih...@4ax.com:
> On Fri, 28 Nov 2003 04:33:27 -0000, Bushzilla <SPAMj...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>There is more than just Smooth Jazz out there? ; )
>>I do live near New Orleans. But the "face" of modern jazz, to me, is a
>>bunch of noodling white fusion guys, like Stanley Jordan.
>>
>
> grrrrrrrrr.......
>
> ...Stanley Jordan shouldn't be lumped into that category.
He's white, isn't he?
; )
> Imo. the "face" of modern jazz is kinda like the "face" of modern
> hip-hop. Those "face" are a lot like the face on the cover of a Vogue
> or Vanity Fair mag. It's airbrushed and photoshopped to look like
> something it truly isn't. The mainstream media outlets are rarely
> interested in portraying that "face" accurately.
I didn't mean to troll you, specifically. ; )
> -=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=-
> >-=-=->
>
> Mochaspresso
>
--
I am Jason Gortician
NyceStylez
> news:bse-3839EA.2...@news-text.blueyonder.co.uk:
>
> > HIphop without black people is like Ice Hockey without Canadians.
> >
> > It's not a case of every show needs to have black people there, it's a
> > case of what is hiphop if it isn't appealing to black people as well
> > as white people?
>
> of the music is altered at all if no black people like the artist you
> like. say you're sitting at home alone, listening to some white
> hip-hopper, and liking the music. if, unbeknownst to you, no black
> people happen to like what you're listening to (and this assumes that
> you are white), does that have any effect on the music you're listening
> to? no. it simply can't. the only way it can have an effect is if you
> have some kind of racial issue going on in your own mind.
>
> totally unappealing to all black people, just like it will never be
> totally unappealing to all white people.
Oh man, another race thread, damn, I love these...
Well, a lot of people are afraid that Hip-Hop will go the way
mainstream Jazz has gone, if Hip-Hop isn't already there. Now, I
hardly think Slug and Aesop Rock are the Kenny Gs of the culture,
however I do realise that both of these emcees have a larger following
that is more of the lighter hue.
Why is that? I can't say, although I have some tiny theories.
In any case, I would think that it would be a tragedy if all of a
sudden black people would quit Hip-Hop. Not that it would happen.
But I guess Slug's comments about the lack of black people at his
concerts and venues deal with in part of wanting approval from the
group that created the essence of Hip-Hop. If he's in front of a
crowd that's all white people who live in suburban homes and have bank
accounts that stay in the four-figures, well, I can see how he'd have
a problem with that.
Slug is a half-baby, and I can relate a little about being biracial.
There was a time where I wish I could speak at least one of the
dialects my mother speaks, where I wished I could've lived in the
Philippines and had more friends of Asian background. It still does
bother me that I can speak more Thai and Japanese than Tagalog or
Ilocano (Philippine dialects) and that I can't cook anything from
Philippine cuisine other than fried rice. But that's just the way it
is. Now I don't think Slug wants to learn how to make ham hocks or
anything associated with black southern cooking (which is a stereotype
because my white grandma has made collard greens and so forth), but I
think he would like for both halves of his heritage to be represented
in the groups he performs for, because the crowd seems to reflect the
performer, whether he/she likes it or not. If you've always thought
of yourself as someone spitting lyrics that the black community can
relate to, but wind up with mostly white cats at your show, it's
something to think about, to be sure.
In my view, Hip-Hop is being splintered into different subgenres, and
the one or ones that Atmosphere and the Definitive Jux crew seem to
have a larger representation of college-age white folks. This isn't
to say that these artists are lame or that they don't make music that
black people like. That's just how it happened to be.
Meditate on this, I will.
Peace
NyceStylez
:::foreseeing a Hip-Hop divided along colour lines:::
:::it will likely happen....?:::
NyceStylez
> In article <Xns94403F8A29F...@130.133.1.4>,
> xlucasx <sucki...@microsoft.com> wrote:
>
> > bse <b...@YOURHANDSFROMYOURLAPukseen.com> wrote in
> > news:bse-413BB8.0...@news-text.blueyonder.co.uk:
> >
> > > Does the vibe of the crowd at a live show
> > > matter? Yes. Does a hiphop artist (esp a black one) who fails to
> > > attract any black audience have some searching to do? Yes.
> >
> > what do you mean by this? if it means what i think it means, it's
> > ridiculous. but, i don't want to put words in your mouth so please
> > elaborate on what you're trying to say.
>
> What I'm saying is that Hiphop is a form of black music. Or black
> american music if you will. If an artist is making this music in an area
> with black people, and none of them are interested, then there is
> something going on there.
> When hiphop stops being relevent or interesting to black people then
> hiphop has lost it's way somewhere?
>
> BSE
Analogies...
A blues artist only attracts white crowds. This is ironic on at least
two levels.
One, although there are indigent white people, the white race is
normally viewed as the "haves," or rather the people who aren't the
ones who have any reason to sing about the blues. Therefore, can they
*really* relate to the music the blues artist is singing about?
Two, the blues is a genre of music that originated among a generation
of black people who had little. If you listen to old blues songs done
by a proper blues artist, the wailing is real and the pain is real
because they're drawn from EXPERIENCE.
To paraphrase George Carlin "White people don't know anything about
the blues. They're the ones who GIVE the blues!" Of course, George
Carlin is hardly a master on race relations, and neither am I.
But uf a blues artist is only attracting white crowds, is he really
playing the blues?
Peace
NyceStylez
:::or is he playing country?:::
xlucasx
news:e2992d2a.0311...@posting.google.com:
> Well, a lot of people are afraid that Hip-Hop will go the way
> mainstream Jazz has gone, if Hip-Hop isn't already there. Now, I
> hardly think Slug and Aesop Rock are the Kenny Gs of the culture,
> however I do realise that both of these emcees have a larger following
> that is more of the lighter hue.
so you're saying that white artists are the reason mainstream jazz is so
lame? that's utterly ridiculous, and racist.
NyceStylez
As one who observes the actions of trendy white kids (having one for a
roommate), they actually jock OutKast a lot harder than Atmosphere or
the Def Jux crew. Many haven't ever heard of Aesop Rock.
You know, Slug and Aesop Rock were both in Orlando the same week. I
had tickets to see Aes Rock and I got fuckin' sick the day he showed.
So I missed him, C-Rayz Walz and Mr Lif after paying $30 for two
tickets!! I didn't even get a chance to see Atmosphere (really just
Slug) because I was still brooding about the $30 I threw away, plus I
was still sick. My friend spent money on the Atmosphere tickets, and
she wound up missing it because she got the dates mixed up. Venus
must be in retrograde.
I was going to try and get both to sign my Urb mag, too.
Dash it all.
Peace
NyceStylez
:::who had declared war on trendy scenesters:::
suntzu
i dunno, carlin's got some pretty insightful stuff on race. it's just
not as big a part (understandably, i guess) of his routine as a lot of
black comedians who're on the same level (of popularity and talent).
>
> To paraphrase George Carlin "White people don't know anything about
> the blues. They're the ones who GIVE the blues!" Of course, George
> Carlin is hardly a master on race relations, and neither am I.
>
> But uf a blues artist is only attracting white crowds, is he really
> playing the blues?
i think the better question is if the "blues" artist is attracting
mostly people without the blues (esp of the monetary variety) and isn't
playing the blues based on experience, is he really playing the blues.
Kuahmel Allah
--Kuah Allah
>>>>Subject: Re: slug and aesop rock in urb
From: zens...@hotmail.com (NyceStylez)
Date: 11/29/03 2.33 P Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <e2992d2a.0311...@posting.google.com>
Sir
way he knows how to make music. I've read multiple times where he said he
doesn't even listen to other artists who are similar to him really, that he
actually bumps M.O.P.type shit and wishes he could make music like that...but
instead he is forced to write love poems.
Sir...blame the dealer
Nestajones
>Date: 11/27/2003 4:40 AM Eastern Standard Time
>In most cases (mainly because of where I'm at, but also cos
>of how the music has grown so popular) these people are white.
how many black folks are in ireland? do you know the % of the population? is
the % greater where you live? (where is that?) are black folks our age in
ireland more into hip-hop than white folks?
Steve S. Jackson
> Noixe, the other Adrock reasons:
> <<anyways slug seems noticably miffed at the whole
> no-black-kids-at-his-show aesthetic. I'm fully aware we got this
> reoccurring theme in america where black people create the music and
> white kids take it and run with it for the next 50-100 years, but is
> this the first time the white kids at the front line of the cultural
> transfer have expressed extensive guilt about it? I'm pretty sure Jerry
> lee Lewis didn't give a fuck.>>
>
> I saw the High & Mighty along with Cage(first time I've ever seen him),
> Akrobatik, and Chief Kamachi. And yes, I must say as well(in the
> reverse) that it's actually somewhat off-putting to see so
> many(virtually ALL) whites at a Hip Hop show, I've started going back to
> shows strong since 1998. This IS however 2003, and the climate in Hip
> Hop(and everytthing attached to it) is more diverse as opposed to the
> year 1986. Sure, white kids were there but nowhere near how it is now.
> But something to chew on here...what's considered "underground" is where
> I tend to see more whites. WUSL(Power 99FM) does a yearly "Power House"
> and all the radio types appear(R. Kelly, Jigga Boo, Fabolous, Trina,
> etc.), and it is virtually all black in its attendance. But if you say
> Dilated Peoples, Hieroglyphics, Atmosphere, or The X-ecutioners, whites
> kill it in terms of attendance. In fact, Power 99 never once even
> advertised that the Philadelphia-based High & Mighty even had a show
> last night prior to its' jump-off. Talk about dissin'! So, I actually
> feel Slug in a reverse sort of way. However, I feel his "dilemma"(for
> lack of a better term) is one of marketing, because if he(and other
> so-called underground acts) was afforded similar air/video time in the
> mainstream, black kids would have to bow down as to how nice they are.
I totally disagree. Whereas alot of radio of rap and bullist, so is
alot fo the underground. And truth be told, kids today can hear Mr.
Lif, Cage, etc. a hundred times on the radio and they'd still not go
to a show. Unfortunately, it really isn't all about marketing. If it
were that simple, than Anticon cats would all be millionaires with
their Internet intensive campaign. But it's not totally marketing
(part of it, but not totally). I know young'uns who don't think any
white person can rap-- none. Eminem and Timbaland's boi (who's name
escapes me right now), they'll be like "they're alright but can't hold
a candle to [hot MC of the moment]." Kids today-- many of them want
to be entertained. Or they want to hear that "real isht" which is
usually equated with thug rap, etc. They don't want lyrics to think
on and meditate on. Is that 99's fault? Nah. 99 and 103.9 are just
capitalizing off of it because Clear Channel need to keep their
profits high. THink Colby Colb doesn't know who High and Mighty are?
Yeah he does. Can he sneak them on 103.9? Maybe on a mix show late
at night when the "true heads" are listening. But during the day when
your fanbase loves 50 cent not because of what he says but of because
of how he looks? Yeah, okay. The real root of the problem is the
fact that we've let corporate America dictate trends, lifestyles, and
our very own culture. We let Clear Channel own 5 or 6 FM stations in
the city and one or two AM stations. We are the one's who let THEM
monopolize black music in Philadelphia. Who's to blame? The Hot
Boyz? Jonesy? They're all just pawns. Colby? He'll do what he can,
but realistically what type of pull does he have? Where's the power?
THe power is in us. Personally, I don't listen to FM unless it's
Sunday morning because there's too much wackness to weed through to
find the occasional jem and ol' skool jam (which usually means early
90s jam). I'm more likely to play CDs or listen to newsradio.
> And those kids would start to really take the bullsh*t acts(the whole
> Wack-A-Fella for starters) to task relative to what they're putting out.
> PEACE!
Dippi
"Kuahmel Allah" <blackn...@aol.compostheap> wrote in message
news:20031129220020...@mb-m29.aol.com...
> Sup, NyceStylez....it's been a minute....
> --Kuah Allah
man, u gotta stop confusin me... im kinda fucked up right now... and i read
until nyce said she was biracial until i realized that wasn't your post, and
that I already read it... and that it was nyce
please stop confusing me, it would be very much appreciated
--
Dippi
"my life, seems like a movie but its real to me
and i aint feelin yall so I make music for me
yall hate me, but god did that up already
dont give a fuck no more, down to duel wit machettes"
A to the L
>>From: A to the L al...@nildram.co.uk
>>Date: 11/27/2003 4:40 AM Eastern Standard Time
>
>>In most cases (mainly because of where I'm at, but also cos
>>of how the music has grown so popular) these people are white.
>
>how many black folks are in ireland?
not a lot at all...
>do you know the % of the population?
At present there is no totally reliable information about the number
of people from ethnic minority groups in Northern Ireland because a
race specific question has not been included in previous censuses.
However, the report Ethnic Minorities in Northern Ireland by G Irwin
and S Dunn (1997, Centre for the Study of Conflict, University of
Ulster) estimated the ethnic minority population at between 10,000 to
20,000 (approx 1.5% of the total population).
http://www.cre.gov.uk/about/ec_ni.html
(Bear in mind that that whole "ethnic minority" thing lumps together
everyone who isn't white... so you got chinese, indian, european...
the whole lot mixed up in thay whole number.
> is the % greater where you live? (where is that?)
belfast... yeah because its the biggest city, it follows that it will
have the biggest number... more job opportunities, housing etc etc
>are black folks our age in
>ireland more into hip-hop than white folks?
I wouldn't say that - surely that's almost stereotypical? "He's black
- he must like Hiphop."
Its gonna be the same as anywhere else - people are gonna like what
they like... because of the racial makeup of this country however I'm
always gonna see more white people at Hiphop shows than black people.
However if you take the % show above, then at the places where I DJ,
the percentage of black people in the CROWD on that night is much
greater than the overall percentage of black people in the country.
(probably around 20% in fact). Make of that what you will :)
PEACH
A to the L
"I hope ya family got love for you soldier - cos one of them gon be your organ donor"
"Dipset Dipset Dipset Dipset Dipset Dipset Dipset Dipset Dipset Dipset Dipset Dipset Dipset Dip...Set"
bse
xlucasx <sucki...@microsoft.com> wrote:
> bse <b...@YOURHANDSFROMYOURLAPukseen.com> wrote in
> news:bse-952585.1...@news-text.blueyonder.co.uk:
>
> >> we could go around and around in circles forever, but what this all
> >> boils down to is that you're wayyyy too hung up on race, and i think
> >> you have some issues with it.
> >
> > So you don't think race is an important part of hiphop?
> >
>
> not per se. hip hop is about music and having fun and, to a certain
> extent, expanding peoples' horizons. also, imo, i think the
> accessibility of hip hop is important (ie, that anyone can start
> breaking, or that anyone can start rhyming, regardless of race, etc).
> it's not about a quota of having a certain number of one race and a
> certain number of another.
Do you think "blackness" is an important part of hiphop?
BSe
mochaspresso
<SPAMj...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>I didn't mean to troll you, specifically. ; )
>
>
I deliberately talk to trolls on occasion because I'm idealistic and
believe that they have some redeemable qualities.
-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->
Mochaspresso
"Heaven, I need a hug.
Is there anybody out there willin' to embrace a thug?"
--R. Kelly
xlucasx
> In article <Xns944172D089F...@130.133.1.4>,
> xlucasx <sucki...@microsoft.com> wrote:
>
>> bse <b...@YOURHANDSFROMYOURLAPukseen.com> wrote in
>> news:bse-952585.1...@news-text.blueyonder.co.uk:
>>
>> >> we could go around and around in circles forever, but what this
all
>> >> boils down to is that you're wayyyy too hung up on race, and i
think
>> >> you have some issues with it.
>> >
>> > So you don't think race is an important part of hiphop?
>> >
>>
>> not per se. hip hop is about music and having fun and, to a certain
>> extent, expanding peoples' horizons. also, imo, i think the
>> accessibility of hip hop is important (ie, that anyone can start
>> breaking, or that anyone can start rhyming, regardless of race, etc).
>> it's not about a quota of having a certain number of one race and a
>> certain number of another.
>
> Do you think "blackness" is an important part of hiphop?
that depends. what exactly does "blackness" mean?!?
bse
xlucasx <sucki...@microsoft.com> wrote:
> bse <b...@YOURHANDSFROMYOURLAPukseen.com> wrote in news:bse-
> CF50C9.141...@news-text.blueyonder.co.uk:
>
> > In article <Xns944172D089F...@130.133.1.4>,
> > xlucasx <sucki...@microsoft.com> wrote:
> >
> >> bse <b...@YOURHANDSFROMYOURLAPukseen.com> wrote in
> >> news:bse-952585.1...@news-text.blueyonder.co.uk:
> >>
> >> >> we could go around and around in circles forever, but what this
> all
> >> >> boils down to is that you're wayyyy too hung up on race, and i
> think
> >> >> you have some issues with it.
> >> >
> >> > So you don't think race is an important part of hiphop?
> >> >
> >>
> >> not per se. hip hop is about music and having fun and, to a certain
> >> extent, expanding peoples' horizons. also, imo, i think the
> >> accessibility of hip hop is important (ie, that anyone can start
> >> breaking, or that anyone can start rhyming, regardless of race, etc).
> >> it's not about a quota of having a certain number of one race and a
> >> certain number of another.
> >
> > Do you think "blackness" is an important part of hiphop?
>
> that depends. what exactly does "blackness" mean?!?
im done here
bse
Kuahmel Allah
until nyce said she was biracial until i realized that wasn't your post, and
that I already read it... and that it was nyce
please stop confusing me, it would be very much appreciated<<<
"Bobby Jimmy, you a foo'!"
Kuahmel Allah
Is that to say you also could care less about having fly single ladies at
shows?
suntzu
i don't get this. it's not that i don't wanna see fly single ladies at
shows, what guy wouldn't. i just don't get why it's esp important at
shows (as opposed to any other social event). if that was my main
interest at a show, i'd save some money and just go to a bar or a club.
Kuahmel Allah
Adds to the atmosphere...they tend to bug out more...girlfriends (specifically
those that came WITH their BFs) act real bored and disinterested in the
surroundings and the overall experience, as if they were forced to come....be
all ready to go home early, jsut totally kill it...
Black folks and ladies, again, simply add dimensions that a predominantly
non-black all-male crowd takes away from....
It's the difference betten the main event performer being live and the entire
function being live.
Julio G said it best: if you can rock a Black party, you can do them all.
And just like how ladies equal more sales, they equal real atmosphere and added
vibe at functions....the ladies get the dudes more into it too...
xlucasx
news:20031130191545...@mb-m13.aol.com:
> Is that to say you also could care less about having fly single ladies at
> shows?
that's an entirely different issue.
xlucasx
news:bse-1BBB02.1...@news-text.blueyonder.co.uk:
yeah great...skip out when you've been called out on some bullshit.
bse
xlucasx <sucki...@microsoft.com> wrote:
Youve not called me out shit, you're just another Hamster argument
waiting to happen for the 03 and its pointless. In your ideal world
everyhting is colourless, great, in my world hiphop's is black music and
when hiphop starts to lose or alienate black people it pretty much
ceases to be. What is the point in us talking about it?
You are obivously treatened by the idea that Hiphop needs black people
involved, and what am I supposed to say to that?
Im saying leave it also because no one gives a shit, no one else is
responding on either side so its a waste of time. I'll argue with some
people but just you seems a bit pointless.
BSe
xlucasx
> You are obivously treatened by the idea that Hiphop needs black people
> involved
that is utterly ridiculous. if this were the case, then why would i
have fallen in love with hip hop back when there were virtually NO white
artists, and if there were any i didn't listen to them???
nice try, though.
bse
xlucasx <sucki...@microsoft.com> wrote:
> bse <b...@YOURHANDSFROMYOURLAPukseen.com> wrote in news:bse-
> EC4DCF.113...@news-text.blueyonder.co.uk:
>
> > You are obivously treatened by the idea that Hiphop needs black people
> > involved
>
> that is utterly ridiculous. if this were the case, then why would i
> have fallen in love with hip hop back when there were virtually NO white
> artists, and if there were any i didn't listen to them???
>
> nice try, though.
I didn't say you were threatened by black people did I?
I said you were threatened by the idea that Hiphop NEEDS black people.
Not beacause you don't like black people but because it makes you feel
less comfortable/important.
bse
quest19...@webtv.net
<<I totally disagree. Whereas alot of radio of rap and bullist, so is
alot fo the underground. And truth be told, kids today can hear Mr. Lif,
Cage, etc. a hundred times on the radio and they'd still not go to a
show.>>
How can you say that? In my travels, specifically a young'un(23 yr. old
black guy) that I'm training in central supply, they've never even heard
of these people. My thing is, if you're really down with the culture,
you at least HEARD of an Eyedea, Akrobatik, Lif, or a Cage. The reply I
typically get is, "who dat?!". I say if they had an alternative to
balance out some of the wackness on radio, we'd begin to see when these
acts came to your town whether or not kids would come out. Then, you
missed a main point in my theory. Go to the Electric Factory or TLA, the
crowd is unquestionably white. At Power House, it is resoundingly black.
It's all Hip Hop, but the color shift is undeniable.
<<Unfortunately, it really isn't all about marketing. If it were that
simple, than Anticon cats would all be millionaires with their Internet
intensive campaign. But it's not totally marketing (part of it, but not
totally). I know young'uns who don't think any white person can rap--
none. Eminem and Timbaland's boi (who's name escapes me right now),
they'll be like "they're alright but can't hold a candle to [hot MC of
the moment]." Kids today-- many of them want to be entertained. Or they
want to hear that "real isht" which is usually equated with thug rap,
etc. They don't want lyrics to think on and meditate on. Is that 99's
fault? Nah. 99 and 103.9 are just capitalizing off of it because Clear
Channel need to keep their profits high. THink Colby Colb doesn't know
who High and Mighty are? Yeah he does. Can he sneak them on 103.9? Maybe
on a mix show late at night when the "true heads" are listening. But
during the day when your fanbase loves 50 cent not because of what he
says but of because of how he looks? Yeah, okay. The real root of the
problem is the fact that we've let corporate America dictate trends,
lifestyles, and our very own culture. We let Clear Channel own 5 or 6 FM
stations in the city and one or two AM stations. We are the one's who
let THEM monopolize black music in Philadelphia. Who's to blame? The Hot
Boyz? Jonesy? They're all just pawns. Colby? He'll do what he can, but
realistically what type of pull does he have? Where's the power? THe
power is in us.>>
Colby Colb is the program director, and as I understand his position, I
hold him responsible for bringing some semblance of balance sometime to
daytime radio. I mean, not even "mention" that you have other groups in
the Illadelph? Baby Blak, The Last Emperor, Jedi Mind Tricks. I've even
had young'uns ask me who Bahamadia was. But everyone knows all
Wack-A-Fella artists from here? C'mon now. I don't say that it's all
marketing, but clearly if the kids only know 8 or 9 artists(the same
ones on 106 & Park), someone is being paid nice in the marketing
department to program millions of kids into thinking that it's only 8 or
9 artists out there.
PEACE!
suntzu
don't add something to the atmosphere, and i definitely like seein them
there. and you're right, the crowd's important at a show (it's always
nice when the crowd's obviously into it). i'm just sayin that these
aren't really deciding factors in whether i go to a show. i go for the
artist first and foremost, the rest is just icing that can make a good
show that much better.
Bay Way 41510
> lack of a better term) is one of marketing, because if he(and other
> so-called underground acts) was afforded similar air/video time in the
> mainstream, black kids would have to bow down as to how nice they are.
disagree, it's not that simple.
Lot's of black kids hear that shit and just plain don't like it
even if it was crammed down their throats via videos and radio play,
they'd still think that shit is wack
STRATEGY
xlucasx
> I said you were threatened by the idea that Hiphop NEEDS black people.
> Not beacause you don't like black people but because it makes you feel
> less comfortable/important.
if i wrote my response clumsily, the point i was trying to make still
stands. obviously i'm comfortable with black people being the majority
and focus of hip hop, because i started listening to hip hop when there
were nearly zero white hip hop artists. my favorite groups/artists were
all black. nevertheless, saying hip hop NEEDS black people simply makes
no sense to me. hip hop needs creative, fun, talented
musicians/artists, as it always has. if they happen to be black, white,
or whatever, it doesn't matter (as the diversity in hip hop today
shows). saying hip hop NEEDS black people seems as racist to me as
saying that some sport NEEDS black people, just because there have
traditionally been mostly black people playing that sport. you're using
race as the determinative factor, and that's simply racist.
and as far as me feeling "important," or being afraid of not feeling
"important," that's even more ridiculous. the only way i feel important
at all in hip hop is when i go out and buy a cd or an album or buy a
ticket for a show, because i know i'm helping to support the artist.
that makes me feel at least a tiny bit "important." whether every hip
hop artist is black, white, or eskimo does not make me feel more or less
"important."
this seems to be goign around and around in circles. i'm probably not
doing the best job of conveyign what i'm trying to say, and perhaps
you're not also. let's just end it and go our merry ways. i'll even
let you have the last word. go ahead and say what you want to say and
let's get back to more important things.
Nestajones
>Date: 12/1/2003 9:32 PM Eastern Standard Time
>saying hip hop NEEDS black people seems as racist to me as
>saying that some sport NEEDS black people, just because there have
>traditionally been mostly black people playing that sport. you're using
>race as the determinative factor, and that's simply racist.
first of all, acknowledging the importance of race is not racist.
but anyway, you can't parallel hip-hop and sports. hip-hop grew out of various
black roots; it has cultural implications. sports are just sports. most major
sports didn't develop out of and get shaped by a particular race. lots of
irish dominated the major leagues in the 19th century, but there's nothin
inherently irish about baseball. you can't say the same for hip-hop.
xlucasx
news:20031202000229...@mb-m25.aol.com:
>>From: xlucasx sucki...@microsoft.com
>>Date: 12/1/2003 9:32 PM Eastern Standard Time
>
>>saying hip hop NEEDS black people seems as racist to me as
>>saying that some sport NEEDS black people, just because there have
>>traditionally been mostly black people playing that sport. you're
>>using race as the determinative factor, and that's simply racist.
>
> first of all, acknowledging the importance of race is not racist.
true, but what's going on here is people considering race as being
determinative of the state of hip hop. that's the important
distinction.
>
> but anyway, you can't parallel hip-hop and sports. hip-hop grew out
> of various black roots; it has cultural implications. sports are just
> sports. most major sports didn't develop out of and get shaped by a
> particular race. lots of irish dominated the major leagues in the
> 19th century, but there's nothin inherently irish about baseball. you
> can't say the same for hip-hop.
but so what if one race did the majority of the developing of soemthing?
does that then mean that there needs to be a certain quota of that race
from then on? also, let's not forget that hip hop isn't that old. at a
time when hip hop was still doing a LOT of developing (ie, the early to
mid 90s), it was VERY diverse. latinos, phillipinos, whites, etc were
having a major impact on the development of hip hop, and that was only
about 20 years into hip hop's existence. so, i don't see how anyone
could say that ONLY blacks developed and shaped hip hop. many
races/ethnicities had a hand in that.
Nesta
> >are black folks our age in
> >ireland more into hip-hop than white folks?
>
> I wouldn't say that - surely that's almost stereotypical? "He's black
> - he must like Hiphop."
well yes, it is stereotypical, but, at least in america, i think it's
true. not that i'm saying since someone is black they must like
hip-hop. but i have no problem saying that a significantly higher
percentage of american blacks in their 20s are into hip-hop than of
american whites in their 20s. so i was just wondering if that was
also true in northern ireland. i wasn't at all sure if it would be...
> at the places where I DJ,
> the percentage of black people in the CROWD on that night is much
> greater than the overall percentage of black people in the country.
> (probably around 20% in fact).
...but it sounds like it might be.
Kuahmel Allah
you at least HEARD of an Eyedea, Akrobatik, Lif, or a Cage.<<<
THAT'S not true, Quest....I'm not surprised at all how few cats do that kind of
digging or listening out these days. The majority of even Hip-Hop heads just
aren't interested in seeking stuff out. They'd rather play video games or
watch some sports or find where the hoes at....sad, but 'tis how it works...
Like Neil said in Heat, "when I get around to it"----that's the time people pay
attention....
Kuahmel Allah
> shows?
that's an entirely different issue.
<<<
I think it relates.....just like I said in previous posts, and about the
Blacks, I think the ladies add atmosphere....a new dimension....
Kuahmel Allah
don't add something to the atmosphere, and i definitely like seein them
there. and you're right, the crowd's important at a show (it's always
nice when the crowd's obviously into it). i'm just sayin that these
aren't really deciding factors in whether i go to a show. i go for the
artist first and foremost, the rest is just icing that can make a good
show that much better.
<<<
Oh no, I agree, liking the artist makes you go...the crowd that's there makes
you stay....it's simply liver with Black folks there, and it's simply more
interesting and engaging with laides there....
NyceStylez
> "Kuahmel Allah" <blackn...@aol.compostheap> wrote in message
> news:20031129220020...@mb-m29.aol.com...
> > Sup, NyceStylez....it's been a minute....
> > --Kuah Allah
>
> man, u gotta stop confusin me... im kinda fucked up right now... and i read
> until nyce said she was biracial until i realized that wasn't your post, and
> that I already read it... and that it was nyce
>
> please stop confusing me, it would be very much appreciated
Aw, there's nothing wrong with reading my words twice!
Peace
NyceStylez
:::is there?:::
Dippi
"NyceStylez" <zens...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:e2992d2a.03120...@posting.google.com...
dont worry nyce your cool... its all kuahmels fault
--
Dippi
"my life, seems like a movie but its real to me
and i aint feelin yall so I make music for me
yall hate me, but god did that up already
dont give a fuck no more, down to duel wit machettes"
quest19...@webtv.net
<<disagree, it's not that simple.>>
Actually, it is that simple. So I have to disagree with your view. I'm
not a marketing major or anything like that, but clearly, if MTV/BET(or
your local radio station) ran the same videos(or songs) ad nauseum
without ANY semblance of balance, a visiting alien would be inclined to
believe that that was the real deal. And if that's true, clearly
impressionable kids will ride with that idea as well.
<<Lot's of black kids hear that shit and just plain don't like it even
if it was crammed down their throats via videos and radio play, they'd
still think that shit is wack.>>
Disagree. Lots of black kids hear on radio and TV ONLY the "same 5
songs, 15 times a day, for 3 months" by the same 3-8 artists and their
respective affiliates. Whenever I've let a kid hold a J-Live, Sway &
King Tech, or Jedi Mind Tricks CD of mine to make them aware that it IS
other Hip Hop music out there, at least in my travels here in the
Illadelph, I've always gotten two typical responses, "damn, that shit is
hot", and "they're nice, but I've never heard them on the radio". Hmm..
This as always confirmed in my mind that, if given more shine, TONS of
artists would blow the present playlists out of the water. I somewhat
understand the politics surrounding the airwaves, but apparently dope
music tends to make folks wonder what they've been getting.
PEACE!
quest19...@webtv.net
<<THAT'S not true, Quest....I'm not surprised at all how few cats do
that kind of digging or listening out these days. The majority of even
Hip-Hop heads just aren't interested in seeking stuff out. They'd rather
play video games or watch some sports or find where the hoes at....sad,
but 'tis how it works.>>
Agreed. In today's environment, I have to roll with that. Although it's
selling todays heads short, it is what it is. Coming up in the early
1980s with no internet or SOURCE magazine for help, I'd be in
Mississippi and I STILL at least knew who the Treacherous 3 was. In the
late 1980s, stationed here in Illadelph in the Navy, I at least knew
what Uncle Jam's Army was about. I was always taught that to be good(or
down) with anything, you had to at least of a grasp of the stuff that
wasn't always in your face. We got redirected somewhere it appears.
<<Like Neil said in Heat, "when I get around to it"----that's the time
people pay
attention.>>
Like KRS-One says all the time, "rap is something you do, Hip Hop is
something you live".
PEACE!
Nesta
> but so what if one race did the majority of the developing of soemthing?
> does that then mean that there needs to be a certain quota of that race
> from then on? also, let's not forget that hip hop isn't that old. at a
> time when hip hop was still doing a LOT of developing (ie, the early to
> mid 90s), it was VERY diverse. latinos, phillipinos, whites, etc were
> having a major impact on the development of hip hop, and that was only
> about 20 years into hip hop's existence. so, i don't see how anyone
> could say that ONLY blacks developed and shaped hip hop. many
> races/ethnicities had a hand in that.
i do not dispute that other races have had a part in shaping where
hip-hop has gone and what it has become. and no one is talking about
"quotas." here is my basic thought though, and what i think bse
believes as well: if hip-hop gets to the point where black folks are
no longer making it, and no longer listening to it, is it even hip-hop
anymore? what is it? we're talking about a music created by blacks
and shaped by a long history of african-american culture. if it
becomes so dissociated from its roots that the people who started it
no longer have any interest in it, what is it? how has its meaning
changed?
it's a complex issue and one i've talked a bit about in posts in the
past. i don't know what to think about it, and i don't know that i
have any new insights on it. now, maybe you don't care...if the music
sounds the same and you enjoy listening, who cares? but i think it's
important. to me, music doesn't exist in a vacuum.
mochaspresso
>
>but so what if one race did the majority of the developing of soemthing?
>does that then mean that there needs to be a certain quota of that race
>from then on?
I don't think anyone meant that hip-hop has to have a certain quota.
I think the original question was if blacks are for whatever reason
not responding or relating to a certain faction of hip-hop (...ie
underground "backpacker" hip-hop.-- I hate the term but I'm using it
here because I figure it gets the point of what I'm referring to
rather clearly...), is it reasonable to say that the faction in
question has somehow deviated away from the original roots of hip-hop?
I don't necessarily have an answer to that question. Well, that's not
really true. I do have an answer......I think it is reasonable to
come to that conclusion. Imo, what's missing from the "backpacker"
hip-hop atmosphere is the same thing as what's missing when you
compare listening to jazz or blues in a smokey juke-joint to sitting
in a swanky upscale club w/ candles on the tables and everyone just
sitting around nodding and politely clapping when appropriate. It's
the difference between Soul Train and American Bandstand. To hear my
mom tell it, it's the difference between a show at the Apollo and a
show at the Ed Sullivan Theatre. It's the difference between hearing
Donnie Mclurkin or TD Jakes preach compared to Billy Graham and also
comparing the music that you'd hear at those respective services.
In a nutshell, what seems to be missing is the "soul". Think about
it.....if reggae or salsa somehow evolved to the point where jamaicans
of hispanics no longer have any interest in it, don't you think
something went awry somewhere? Personally, I don't think that is
what's happening to hip-hop. At least, not yet.
I don't want to imply that one particular style of hip-hop has more
value than the other.....that's personal preference. But yes, I do
think that historically, something very crucial often gets lost in the
shuffle when white people begin to get involved in music from other
cultures.
>also, let's not forget that hip hop isn't that old. at a
>time when hip hop was still doing a LOT of developing (ie, the early to
>mid 90s), it was VERY diverse. latinos, phillipinos, whites, etc were
>having a major impact on the development of hip hop, and that was only
>about 20 years into hip hop's existence. so, i don't see how anyone
>could say that ONLY blacks developed and shaped hip hop. many
>races/ethnicities had a hand in that.
This is exactly how revisionist history starts and how the "soul"
starts to become lost. It's not about only blacks developing or
shaping hip-hop. Yes there were other races....but who did the vast
majority or the developing and shaping? Who's culture had the most
influence?
I have no problem w/ whites involved in hip-hop or w/ the existence of
the "backpacker" faction. However, I do draw the line at a blatant
disregard of roots, culture and history. If others are going to come
into it and do that......then yes, as awful and racist as it may
sound, I'd rather they just left it alone. I could be wrong on this,
but, imo, when it comes to the so called "backpacker faction"....the
artists themselves are cool w/ hip-hop and it's history. The problem
lies w/ their fans.
-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->
Mochaspresso
"Heaven, I need a hug. Is there anybody out there willin' to embrace a thug?"
--R. Kelly
Kuahmel Allah
That's my point about what the black brings to it....the soul....thanks,
Mocha...
Noixe, the other Adrock
artists *and * the fans have a good understanding and appreciation for
the history and culture, but as it diffuses, that'll fade. it's the
same pattern that happened with jazz and rock too.
why do you hate the term "backpacker"?
NyceStylez
> but so what if one race did the majority of the developing of soemthing?
> does that then mean that there needs to be a certain quota of that race
> from then on?
Maybe. Maybe not. Probably not with sports.
> also, let's not forget that hip hop isn't that old. at a
> time when hip hop was still doing a LOT of developing (ie, the early to
> mid 90s), it was VERY diverse. latinos, phillipinos, whites, etc were
> having a major impact on the development of hip hop, and that was only
> about 20 years into hip hop's existence. so, i don't see how anyone
> could say that ONLY blacks developed and shaped hip hop. many
> races/ethnicities had a hand in that.
Hip-Hop is still "doing a LOT of developing."
Also, black people did develop Hip-Hop music (I'm not getting into
graff/breaking because that is just WAAAY too debatable and it's
getting off the original subject). They may not have hammered every
single nudge making Hip-Hop what it is today, but it IS originally
black music. Kurtis Blow took a cue from the reggae djs he saw while
growing up in Jamaica, who in turn imitated the soul sounds coming
from their black brothers and sisters up in the US (Motown and the
like). This isn't something I'm just pulling out of my ass, but
rather a conclusion used by more than a few reputable sources.
True, Hip-Hop isn't all that old, but it isn't all that young, either.
We're talking about mid- to late Seventies. By the early Ninties,
Hip-Hop was already a teenager or young adult. Today, he's nearing
thirty, and he's freakin' out because he's still living with his moms.
Okay, maybe not... but it's easier to see the genre's progression if
you take into account how old it is.
Okay, here's a challenge for everyone: name five artists who had a
major impact on Hip-Hop music in-between 1975 through 1980 who were
not black. I'd be really interested in the answers, because I can't
think of five, however I'm hardly someone who claims to be an expert
on Hip-Hop history. If anyone can, I would appreciate the
information.
And, as much as I would rather not include her, you can count Debbie
Harry as one, even though I'm not exactly clear on when Rapture came
out. I think it's a stretch, but people would argue with me, so I'll
go ahead and throw that one out for you cats.
Oh, and there's one "l" in Filipino. And an "F," too.
And if it makes you feel any better, yes, TAKI was Greek, Crazy Legs
was/is Hispanic and a plethora of writers in the 70s were white.
Peace
NyceStylez
:::feeling as if she's forgotten something:::
NyceStylez
> Strategy theorizes:
> <<Lot's of black kids hear that shit and just plain don't like it even
> if it was crammed down their throats via videos and radio play, they'd
> still think that shit is wack.>>
>
> Disagree. Lots of black kids hear on radio and TV ONLY the "same 5
> songs, 15 times a day, for 3 months" by the same 3-8 artists and their
> respective affiliates. Whenever I've let a kid hold a J-Live, Sway &
> King Tech, or Jedi Mind Tricks CD of mine to make them aware that it IS
> other Hip Hop music out there, at least in my travels here in the
> Illadelph, I've always gotten two typical responses, "damn, that shit is
> hot", and "they're nice, but I've never heard them on the radio". Hmm..
> This as always confirmed in my mind that, if given more shine, TONS of
> artists would blow the present playlists out of the water. I somewhat
> understand the politics surrounding the airwaves, but apparently dope
> music tends to make folks wonder what they've been getting.
> PEACE!
Ah, really, that's the way with a lot of people, not just young black
heads, and not just about Hip-Hop, either.
People seem to have this elitist thing going on in their heads: if I
ain't heard 'em, they must be wack. This is going through the heads
of a lot of people, from your grimy backpacker who only has contact
with the sun when he goes out to buy new albums, to the teeny-bopper
who can't wait for the next Britney Spears CD.
Everyone has their little litmus test of cool, and with music, many
people (unfortunately) rely on radio and MTV to tell them what's hot
and what's in. Some others rely on magazines, others rely on
newsgroups (guilty). Still others rely on friends, who in turn can be
influenced by any of the already mentioned factors.
People just need to let go and look for stuff on their own and make
their own decisions about the music. It isn't hard to pick up
something from the Roots, Def Jux or any of the artists who aren't
considered mainstream (which is debatable). It's just hard to get
people exposed to it.
If more black people were exposed to Atmosphere, do you feel that
there would be a good chance that they would be interested in going to
a show?
And here is the idea that will get you all upset....
It is a sociological fact that white people tend to be well-off in
respects to their black counterparts. This is not saying that ALL
white people have more money than ALL black people, but a
generalisation based on income and race.
What else do people with money do but spend it? Spend it on what?
Magazines, which talk about underground Hip-Hop. Internet connection,
which leads them to Hip-Hop websites as well as newsgroups.
Turntables, which they can play their new albums that they got from
HipHopSite or Sandbox. More records, more DVD documentaries on
Hip-Hop.... and concert tickets.
People without money aren't likely to get to the point of buying
concert tickets for someone they haven't heard about. Why haven't
they heard about them? They're not going to pay five dollars for a
magazine. They're at the library using internet, and they've only got
an hour before they're kicked off so some guy with bad breath can
check out porn sites. They can't afford turntables at $150 a pop
minimum, so they check the radio instead. If they are able to scrape
together some money for concert tickets, they're going to check these
people they've heard on the radio.
Why? Because they don't have the fuckin' leisure time nor the
privilage to be online for three hours listening to every RealAudio
snippet on Sandbox.
Of course, I readily admit that there are flaws in this theory. Not
every person ordering from Sandbox is wealthy, not every person going
to an Atmosphere concert is well-off and, more importantly, not every
black person is so broke they have to use the damn library computer
after Mr Children. People who are into Hip-Hop come from a varied
sort, but as romantic as the idea is to starve yourself for a week so
you can buy that new (fill-in-the-blank) record, it's hardly
realistic, especially if said cat has a family to feed before he feeds
his crates.
Certain people have the time, the money and the drive to get heavily
into underground Hip-Hop. And some people don't. I don't think I
have the answer as to why. But maybe throwing out thoughts would
generate conversation that would bring about something we could all
settle with. That's what we're all trying to do, right?
Peace
NyceStylez
:::who feels rather privilaged to have the time to post drivel on
rmhh:::
Nestajones
>Date: 12/4/2003 5:19 PM Eastern Standard Time
>People without money aren't likely to get to the point of buying
>concert tickets for someone they haven't >heard about. They're not going to
pay five dollars for a
>magazine. They're at the library using internet, and they've only got
>an hour.
> they check the radio instead.
>Why? Because they don't have the fuckin' leisure time nor the
>privilage to be online for three hours listening to every RealAudio
>snippet on Sandbox.
this is kinda simplistic, but actually a pretty good theory...has some merit
i'd say.
Nestajones
>Date: 12/4/2003 12:30 PM Eastern Standard Time
>why do you hate the term "backpacker"?
i hate it cause it's fucking meaningless and lazy. it's used as an easy way to
disparage music, or people who listen to particular music. it throws
everything that doesn't fit over here into this bag over there.
fuck it, i can't explain it well, but 95% of the time it really does annoy me.
it just gets thrown around for no reason and means nothing.
Nestajones
>Date: 12/4/2003 4:43 PM Eastern Standard Time
>Okay, here's a challenge for everyone: name five artists who had a
>major impact on Hip-Hop music in-between 1975 through 1980 who were
>not black.
charlie chase
ruby dee?
bob james, haha
there's certainly some more nuyoricans who i'm not thinkin of.
mattmatical
>xlucasx <sucki...@microsoft.com> wrote in message news:<Xns9444E17108F...@130.133.1.4>...
>> but so what if one race did the majority of the developing of soemthing?
>> does that then mean that there needs to be a certain quota of that race
>> from then on?
>
>Maybe. Maybe not. Probably not with sports.
>
>> also, let's not forget that hip hop isn't that old. at a
>> time when hip hop was still doing a LOT of developing (ie, the early to
>> mid 90s), it was VERY diverse. latinos, phillipinos, whites, etc were
>> having a major impact on the development of hip hop, and that was only
>> about 20 years into hip hop's existence. so, i don't see how anyone
>> could say that ONLY blacks developed and shaped hip hop. many
>> races/ethnicities had a hand in that.
>
>Hip-Hop is still "doing a LOT of developing."
>
>Also, black people did develop Hip-Hop music (I'm not getting into
>graff/breaking because that is just WAAAY too debatable and it's
>getting off the original subject). They may not have hammered every
>single nudge making Hip-Hop what it is today, but it IS originally
>black music. Kurtis Blow took a cue from the reggae djs he saw while
>growing up in Jamaica, who in turn imitated the soul sounds coming
>from their black brothers and sisters up in the US (Motown and the
>like).
Just checking with you... don't you mean Kool Herc instead of
Kurtis Blow?
Matt
"I don't train for sprints,
I train for marathons." (Evidence)
quest19...@webtv.net
<<Ah, really, that's the way with a lot of people, not just young black
heads, and not just about Hip-Hop, either.>>
Understood. However, the point the other respondent mentioned was from
the black perspective. I understand your point, but I was simply
answering his question.
<<People seem to have this elitist thing going on in their heads: if I
ain't heard 'em, they must be wack. This is going through the heads of a
lot of people, from your grimy backpacker who only has contact with the
sun when he goes out to buy new albums, to the teeny-bopper who can't
wait for the next Britney Spears CD.>>
Agreed. And this is one of the main reasons why people should do their
own thinking and research. Through each, you should gain some humility
along the way. Once programmed, it's hard to change a person's mode of
reasoning or why they think in only limited terms.
<<Everyone has their little litmus test of cool, and with music, many
people (unfortunately) rely on radio and MTV to tell them what's hot and
what's in. Some others rely on magazines, others rely on newsgroups
(guilty). Still others rely on friends, who in turn can be influenced by
any of the already mentioned factors.>>
I think people have an innate desire to want to belong. It's like going
to a "mega" church as opposed to going to a "store-front" one. The
difference is obvious even though each is supposed to be a place of
worship. It's alright that BET, SOURCE, and even this forum share and
disseminate various points of view. Ultimately though, it's on the
person in question to seek out and compare what it is you've "heard" to
be cool against stuff that isn't as "mainstream" and come up with a
balance as opposed to just going with a certain party line. That's
programming to me.
<<People just need to let go and look for stuff on their own and make
their own decisions about the music. It isn't hard to pick up something
from the Roots, Def Jux or any of the artists who aren't considered
mainstream (which is debatable). It's just hard to get people exposed to
it.>>
Agreed. But even with that, you have to dig. Fall off into FYE(I say it
stands for F*ck You Everytime) to see what they have, but most towns
have "mom & pop" stores or other independently-run record stores that
you can compare with against the FYEs of the world. Tower Records is
about as good as it gets with some semblance of balance between the two,
still go to the independent ones as well.
<<If more black people were exposed to Atmosphere, do you feel that
there would be a good chance that they would be interested in going to a
show?>>
I do. If blacks were as inundated with Slug and Ant like they are with
Eminem, sure they would.
<<And here is the idea that will get you all upset....
It is a sociological fact that white people tend to be well-off in
respects to their black counterparts. This is not saying that ALL white
people have more money than ALL black people, but a generalisation based
on income and race.>>
I think your "sociological fact" is debatable here. Most blacks are
"middle class" in terms of their spending power or at least knocking at
the door of that distinction. With that said, the "generalisation" you
speak of is kind of null and void. When you have more facts than
generalizations(or assumptions), there's no need to get upset, as you
shoot those assumptions out of the sky.
PEACE!
NyceStylez
> >Also, black people did develop Hip-Hop music (I'm not getting into
> >graff/breaking because that is just WAAAY too debatable and it's
> >getting off the original subject). They may not have hammered every
> >single nudge making Hip-Hop what it is today, but it IS originally
> >black music. Kurtis Blow took a cue from the reggae djs he saw while
> >growing up in Jamaica, who in turn imitated the soul sounds coming
> >from their black brothers and sisters up in the US (Motown and the
> >like).
>
> Just checking with you... don't you mean Kool Herc instead of
> Kurtis Blow?
DOH!
Whoops, must've been that Kurtis Blow album I saw yesterday that set
off that Tupac line... so when I meant Kool Herc, I wrote Kurtis Blow.
Sorry for the confusion, folks.
Peace
NyceStylez
:::hastily putting her graduate cap back on:::
NyceStylez
It's severely simplistic, which is why it felt weird for me to say it.
Among other reasons.
Peace
NyceStylez
:::simple:::
evanescent for life
> Why? Because they don't have the fuckin' leisure time nor the
> privilage to be online for three hours listening to every RealAudio
> snippet on Sandbox.
I don't buy that. It's about what your priorities are. Some
people decide to spend most of their cash on drugs and alcohol,
some use it on clothes and things, some spend it on women (or
men), some spend it on car accessories etc. With the same funds
they could decide to set up that internet connection and then
spend time on the net reading about this & that subject and
widen their horizons on a number of things.
Actually you can widen your horizons on a lot of things even
if you have no money. You don't even have to have a home to
do it. Go to the library and read. Of course this doesn't apply
to finding out about the latest inventions in hip hop unless
your local library has a massive hip hop colllection for some
reason, but I'm just trying to prove that masses are never
seekers.
I've never had any kind of easy or guided passage to learn
about things like high literature, classical music, history,
art, and other high-brow subjects like those. I've never known
anyone in my whole life who was into those things, which is
mostly a question of circumstances you happen to born in. That's
why it's true on so many levels when Rakim said: "It ain't where
you from, it's where you at." I've done all my learning myself
by going to the library and spending time there, getting books,
reading them, taking them back, getting more, thinking about
everything, building knowledge and being inquisitive, applying
my intellect. That's how it happens. It's all about dedication.
School was never my thing, and I've never felt like I'd need it.
You only need schools for degrees and I don't need that, because
street level is where it's at for me. Plus degrees are about
information, not understanding, and I've bumped into educated
people who are astonishingly narrow-minded. What this illustrates
is the importance of the active mind that seeks out things on
its own and doesn't just stay idle and dwell in banalities. It
is all down to the individual to make decisions, to seek out
stuff. Is it a privilege that I've learned all the stuff I've
learned? Nah, it's what I did, it's my little neverending
process of learning and growing. Way too many people let their
mind stagnate. Stagnation means death for the human being as a
person, but people have only themselves to blame for it. You got
to keep it flowing.