Can someone tell me which Dick's Picks are COMPLETE shows?
trippyna
only complete shows, but which also have no dishonest mixing
techniques or edits. For example, I heard that DP 15 has a cut/edit
during one song to correct a song where Jerry fucks up.
Please provide info.
Thx.
Trippy
Chinacat8
>Gone"),16,17,19,21,22? and 23.
>
>Of course, with the exception of #16, very few of these ever show up in
>the "Which are the best Dick's Picks" threads (I predict #23 will probably
>join that list soon as more people hear it, though). The general consensus
>is that the most essential releases in that series are not the same as the
>ones that are complete shows.
>
>--Art
I believe there's a very simple reason for this. In general, there a very few
shows (if any) where the entire show is superb. Especially for the jaded bunch
(and I mean this in the nicest way possible) that write on this newsgroup and
buy the DP series. Those in the "know" can tell when the energy is there and
when its not. Few shows can withstand that kind of scrutiny.
I know for myself, that I skip past many a song when listening to virtually any
show. I want to hear the "meat" of the show. For me that is usually the "jam"
in the middle of the 2nd set. I want it to be as intense and interesting as
possible. Intense, by the way, doesn't necessarily mean loud or
rock-n-rollish.
A personal favorite, at this moment (just finished listening in my car), is
12/28/79. A perefect example of what I mean. OK 1st set, but stellar 2nd set.
I'll never bother w/ that 1st set again, but the 2nd I'll bring out at least
once more. What was happening in that Playing in the Band??
Maurice
brew ziggins
+A personal favorite, at this moment (just finished listening in my car), is
+12/28/79. A perefect example of what I mean. OK 1st set, but stellar 2nd set.
+ I'll never bother w/ that 1st set again, but the 2nd I'll bring out at least
+once more. What was happening in that Playing in the Band??
A lot of people cite the first set Sugaree as one of the very best. Also,
Maurice, I happen to know that your D1 ends with the second set opening
Alabama>GSET, normally a throwaway, but something about this version just
*works* for me.The attack of Brent's keyboard, the authority of Garcia's
vocal...bums me out that it doesn't fit on the Set II disc. Maybe I'll
burn another copy and swap that in for Bertha>Good Lovin'
What *was* happening during that Playing in the Band????
--
bruce higgins ~ lbh2 at cornell dot edu ~ http://tigermtn.dev.cornell.edu
"Everything I'm going to tell you tonight is true...
Except the part about the banana sticking to the wall."
- Spalding Gray -
brew ziggins
+Chinacat8 <chin...@aol.com> wrote:
+:>Of course, with the exception of #16, very few of these ever show up in
+:>the "Which are the best Dick's Picks" threads (I predict #23 will probably
+:>join that list soon as more people hear it, though). The general consensus
+:>is that the most essential releases in that series are not the same as the
+:>ones that are complete shows.
+
+: I believe there's a very simple reason for this. In general, there a
very few
+: shows (if any) where the entire show is superb.
+
+I'm with you 100% on this one; I just find it bizarre that every time a DP
+is released that *isn't* a complete show, there are a half-a-dozen posts
+on this group complaining about it. Like it's more important to have "a
+complete show"[tm] than to have three discs of killer music.
I like the ones with *four* discs of killer music, myself :-)
There are very few shows that I can't edit down to one disc (for my
personal consumption only, of course). OK, for 72-74 shows, it's hard to
keep them under two CDs. But I will say that 8/27/72 fits very nicely on
an 80. And *that* is a killer disc.
Steve Lenier
picture. I almost never listen to only a 2nd set, preferring to let the
whole show roll as often as possible. It has nothing to do with "checking
off dates", but a show was a show, there were mistakes, and those were part
of the show. I'm currently listening to 7/8/87, and Bobby had to rush to
squeeze in the end of a line in Truckin' that he almost forgot to sing,
which I chuckled at, and to me it makes this Black Muddy River even
stronger, the fact that a couple songs ago they were imperfect, and now
they're perfect (term used loosely) again. Kinda like the (oh shoot, I
can't remember who it was), the people that made amazingly good rugs, but
always put in one flaw on purpose, to remind everyone that only God is
perfect (or something like that). How can we appreciate greatness without a
touch of humanity? Sure, killer versions and perfect songs are wonderful,
but I like the occasional mistake, and more importantly this was what the
show was, and I prefer it to a revisionist history version that removes the
warts. So yeah, to me, it *is* more important to have a complete show, but
for reasons I consider much more valid than what you guessed at.
On the other hand, I have never complained about how Dick's Picks is done. I
just think it's great that so much music is being released. But for me
personally, give me a whole show anytime.
Steve
> From: Scratchie <Agitat...@yahoo.com>
>I just find it bizarre that every time a DP
> is released that *isn't* a complete show, there are a half-a-dozen posts
> on this group complaining about it. Like it's more important to have "a
> complete show"[tm] than to have three discs of killer music. I guess these
> people are more interested in checking off dates from a list than in
> actually listening to the jams.
Tod Gordon
mainly because I don't have the time or patience to sit still for 2.5
hours, unless I'm in the car on a road trip. I like getting whole
show releases, but I enjoy (perhaps even more) the highlights over a
run of shows. DP 4, 12, & 14 come to mind.
Steve Lenier <len...@usexpress.net> wrote in message news:<B8180DAD.86DB%len...@usexpress.net>...
jk
first sets, because they don't do it for you. I've heard lots of show where, after
one or two listenings, I've pretty much decided that it's a clunker and I'm not
going to listen to it again. Then I'll pull it out a year or two later, and it'll
be WOW! How did I miss that! It may not happen that often, and when it does it may
only be part of the show that gets you. But it does happen, and that's a good
reason to pull those dust gathering tapes and cds out every now and then and
give'em one more try.
jk
Stuart Friedman
analogy. To see the highlight of Shaq blocking a shot late in the fourth quarter is definitely
exciting. There would be no good reason not to watch this highlight. Still, to know that he was
playing with 5 fouls and had gotten beat by the same move throughout most of the game puts the play
into a more meaningful context.
There are a lot of indicators throughout a first set that hint at what's to come, such as how much
and how accurately Jerry noodles around during Bobby's verses, how tight the harmonies are, how far
they stretch (or as I sometimes say "deadify") the normal bounds of otherwise straight-forward blues
turnarounds, the warmth/intensity of Jerry's vocals, etc. An example of this from a show I was
listening to recently is 2/23/74. Jerry's playing on the opening Around and Around is mostly
straight forward and the solos are not an example of Jerry at his best, but there are a few licks
sprinkled through the verses that suggest it's going to be a good show. Later, in Beat It On Down
The Line, Jerry is basically playing a solo through the entire song. This kind of thing in the first
set is generally a very, very good sign of things to come. From there he sings a beautiful rendition
of Ship of Fools. The glaring mistake at the beginning of the solo only adds to the intensity of the
song. Well, you get the idea... This show features an incredible second set version of Let It Grow.
Knowing the context makes listening to it that much more enjoyable for me.
-Stuart
Tod
"Tod Gordon" <thg...@cnmnetwork.com> wrote in message
news:f14ef811.01111...@posting.google.com...
> Most of the time I prefer to listen to GD/DP's on a highlights basis,
> mainly because I don't have the time or patience to sit still for 2.5
> hours, unless I'm in the car on a road trip. I like getting whole
> show releases, but I enjoy (perhaps even more) the highlights over a
> run of shows. DP 4, 12, & 14 come to mind.
May I also give out a big shout to L>GD, the 4 CD set from the run of
shows at the Fillmore East in late April 1971. Wow what a collection of
music!
Tod G.
Harry
>An example of this from a show I was
> listening to recently is 2/23/74.
That show has a killer He's Gone. The _nothin's gonna bring him back_
coda is cool as hell, sounds like doo-wop.
Harry
BitwiseBob
>May I also give out a big shout to L>GD, the 4 CD set from the run of
>shows at the Fillmore East in late April 1971. Wow what a collection of
>music!
Very much recommend- Download entire show, four nights, with New Riders from
www.gdlive.com. 15 CDs. Great.
------
"BitwiseBob"
Bob Anderson
Eugene Oregon
Alan Topal
> I've entered into this debate with friends in the past and we decided that sports provide a valid
> analogy. To see the highlight of Shaq blocking a shot late in the fourth quarter is definitely
> exciting. There would be no good reason not to watch this highlight. Still, to know that he was
> playing with 5 fouls and had gotten beat by the same move throughout most of the game puts the play
> into a more meaningful context.
If we're talking about seeing the game live, then I would agree. But these games have already been
played, and sometimes the first 3 quarters are pretty boring. Other times, it really is worth sitting
through the whole game, beginning to end.
To me, the bottom line is there just aren't enough hours in the day to listen to nothing but full shows
(never mind non-Dead for the moment). More often than not I'll pick 3 killer discs over a 3-disc
complete show. I spend most of my time in '72-'74, and those first sets can get pretty repetitive. So
rather than listen to yet another Promised-Tennessee-Mexicali-etc., I'll sneak in a '77 or a '69 or
whatever.
As for the DP releases, I think they've got it pretty much just exactly perfect. Some full shows, some
best of shows, some best of runs. Would it really have been better if they were forced to pick between
2-13 and 2-14-70? Between 6-26 and 6-28-74? Or 11-30 and 12-2-73? Would you really trade in one of
those killer primal Dead jams for another handful of first set songs?
-Alan
Jperdue4
I like bobs idea much better, The box is all out of order and no lists of what
shows which songs came from, and frankly i dont think they used the best
versions of the songs, but its still ok i suppose.You do much better getting
the shows in full as they are out there.....
Edward L. Wilkinson, Jr.
>As for the DP releases, I think they've got it pretty much just exactly perfect. Some full shows, some
>best of shows, some best of runs. Would it really have been better if they were forced to pick between
>2-13 and 2-14-70? Between 6-26 and 6-28-74? Or 11-30 and 12-2-73? Would you really trade in one of
>those killer primal Dead jams for another handful of first set songs?
Also, DPs only come out 4 times per year. If the Dead played, say, 80
shows in 1 year, it would take 20 years just to get that one year put
out, much less all the other years.
I'm happy with the way they do things now.
-Ed
Busta Hymen
listen to nothing but full shows
> (never mind non-Dead for the moment). More often than not I'll pick 3
killer discs over a 3-disc
> complete show. I spend most of my time in '72-'74, and those first sets
can get pretty repetitive. So
> rather than listen to yet another Promised-Tennessee-Mexicali-etc., I'll
sneak in a '77 or a '69 or
> whatever.
>
> As for the DP releases, I think they've got it pretty much just exactly
perfect. Some full shows, some
> best of shows, some best of runs. Would it really have been better if
they were forced to pick between
> 2-13 and 2-14-70? Between 6-26 and 6-28-74? Or 11-30 and 12-2-73? Would
you really trade in one of
> those killer primal Dead jams for another handful of first set songs?
>
>
> -Alan
Well said Alan
Busta Hymen
Jperdue4 <jper...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20011115105833...@mb-fm.aol.com...
I'd love to take your advise, but I don't have high-speed internet or a
computer based CD burner. I'd love to accept any B+P offer you might want
to extend to this old hound dog.
Tod
Jperdue4
these are the kinds of people who would come and talk through the shows about
what they did last night , laugh really loud at the wrong times, yell
"JERRRRRRRRY!!!" during that part in stella blue where the music just stops and
leaves you hanging inthe air.......
Alan Topal
Jperdue4 wrote:
> >> As for the DP releases, I think they've got it pretty much just exactly
> >> perfect. Some full shows, some
> >> best of shows, some best of runs. Would it really have been better if
> >> they were forced to pick between
> >> 2-13 and 2-14-70? Between 6-26 and 6-28-74? Or 11-30 and 12-2-73? Would
> >> you really trade in one of
> >> those killer primal Dead jams for another handful of first set songs?
> >>
> >>
> >> -Alan
> >
> >Well said Alan
> >
> >
> >
> these are the kinds of people who would come and talk through the shows about
> what they did last night , laugh really loud at the wrong times, yell
> "JERRRRRRRRY!!!" during that part in stella blue where the music just stops and
> leaves you hanging inthe air.......
Wrong, as usual.
-Alan
Chinacat8
I don't usually get in these fray's, but.....
Alan's right you know........
I also, as I said in an earlier post, have no problem w/ just the greatest
hits. I mean this somewhat tongue in cheek, because I don't mean a disk of
Sat. Nite's and Casey Jones'.
After listening for almost 30 years, I want to hear the kind of jams
exemplified by the 2nd sets in Nov, 73, 10/16/89, DP12, DP18, etc.
In otherwords, I quickly skip past most 1st set stuff for the meat of the show.
I'm rarely interested in the fluff. I could easily lose my 300th Me and My
Uncle or Mexicali or Tennessee Jed, etc.
I guess to some that makes me a bad Deadhead.
I get bored easily by most Dead right now. I'm jaded. I just want tro hear
when they are "on." To me, "on" means that Garcia is present in the mix and in
his playing. I want intense, innovative, interesting, fun, take me away.
To accuse people like me or Alan in the same breath as the "Jeeeeeeery!" crowd
is ludicrous. I went to HEAR the music. I would never scream something like
that out (LOL -- not then at least).
Maybe I should go to more Kimock shows (JC where are you?).
Maurice
Jperdue4
>about
>> what they did last night , laugh really loud at the wrong times, yell
>> "JERRRRRRRRY!!!" during that part in stella blue where the music just stops
>and
>> leaves you hanging inthe air.......
>
>Wrong, as usual.
>
>
>-Alan
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
well, i guess you showed me.....nope im right
Olompali4
and Phil seem to play a continuous lead duel and Bob has a front strum
happenin' during those wheel in the desert songs and dying outlaw laments. A
lot of 1st sets shoot up the ballroom like pistol shots.
Alan Topal
Well if the first set is worth releasing, then by all means release it. I'm
talking about releasing one simply for the sake of having a full show.
-Alan
Patrick Donnelly
The problem with all of this is that most first set songs didn't see a
whole lot of improvisation. Now I know you can all through a million
counterexamples at me (hell I can throw a million counterexamples at
me). But for the most part (sweeping generalization here) first set
songs weren't improvised as heavily. I mean Bertha, Me & My Uncle,
Deal, Jack Straw, Tennessee.... these songs didn't change a whole lot
each time they were played. Not to say "if you've heard one Jack
Straw you've heard them all", certainly. However I can understand
skipping parts of a first set if you're just sittin' there listening
to it because you probably heard a bunch of the songs that show up in
any given first set, in the last first set you listened to. As for
releasing them-- you should release the whole show. When you're at
the show, you wouldn't want the Dead to skip the first set. Sure
you've heard the songs before, you've seen them play the songs before,
but every time you see it is a new experience. And when you have a
tape/disc of a show-- it's trying to reproduce what you'd hear at the
show. I like to have FULL shows or else you really lose something.
i.e. Bobby's stor-ay about the Yella Dawg on 05-31-69. If you were
putting together a highlight show, you would lose that. But it's
classic, timeless, and a true part of the dead, as are every song they
every played.
-Patrick Donnelly
i need a new couple o' quotes.
Alan Topal
> However I can understand
> skipping parts of a first set if you're just sittin' there listening
> to it because you probably heard a bunch of the songs that show up in
> any given first set, in the last first set you listened to. As for
> releasing them-- you should release the whole show. When you're at
> the show, you wouldn't want the Dead to skip the first set.
Right, but I'm not at the show. I'm at home, or the office, or the car. It's a different deal. At the
show, I want to see the whole thing because I never know which part is going to be great. I *never*
left my seat when the band was on stage. But once it's all said and done, we know which parts are worth
hearing again and again, and which aren't.
> I like to have FULL shows or else you really lose something.
> i.e. Bobby's stor-ay about the Yella Dawg on 05-31-69. If you were
> putting together a highlight show, you would lose that. But it's
> classic, timeless, and a true part of the dead, as are every song they
> every played.
Funny you should bring that one up, because I in fact made myself a highlight disc of it. And the stage
banter/Bobby story is on it, because it's a highlight. But the ragged Hard to Handle and Cold Rain &
Snow were not anything I ever needed to hear again, so they didn't make it.
-Alan
Patrick Donnelly
I really liked that Hard to Handle.
-Patrick Donnelly