Re: Ft Hood Shootings a Shocker.Why Not U.S. War Crimes?
DGDevin
> love the closing:
>
> The punk band T.S.O.L. wrote the soundtrack to this attitude a
> quarter-century ago: "We live in the American zone/Free of fear in our
> American home/Swimming pool and digital phone."
>
> Still wondering why they hate us?
>
>
> http://www.rall.com/2009/11/syndicated-column-13-2000000.html
>
> Thursday, November 12, 2009
> SYNDICATED COLUMN: 13 > 2,000,000
>
> Fort Hood Shootings a Shocker.Why Not U.S. War Crimes?
>
> American lives are worth a lot. So when Americans get killed, it's a
> big story. There are lots of editorials. Congressmen call for
> investigations. We want to find out what happened, why it happened,
> and how to make sure it never happens again.
>
> The lives of foreigners, on the other hand, are pretty much worthless.
> Even when they die because Americans killed them, news accounts
> marking their deaths are short, sweet, and short-lived. Congressional
> investigations? No way. To the contrary! If anyone is inconsiderate
> enough to mention the killings of people overseas in a public forum,
> they get shouted down or simply ignored. [snip]
From the get-go this is a load of crap. The American news media went
berserk over Abu Ghraib (and rightfully so), there were trials (although not
high enough up the chain of command IMO) and people were convicted and
imprisoned. Yet to hear Rall tell it, "Nothing much was said about it and
really next to nothing done," (to quote another lyric). I suppose
rhetorical standards can be real low when preaching to the choir, one can
even ignore front-page headlines if they're inconvenient to the argument
being advanced..
It doesn't get much better after that--no angry editorials, two million
people killed by U.S. troops in Iraq and Afghanistan? Horseshit.
Placard-waving, slogan-chanting polemical rants were better in the 70s.
Well, actually they were just as stupid, but at least then we had the excuse
of not knowing any better.
DGDevin
> you're right in that Rall didn't back up his numbers, but I think the
> piece is urging people to look beyond the often complaisant and overly
> simplistic American media coverage of the conflicts and think more
> deeply and independently about a U.S. policy that may be as
> open-endedly flawed as Vietnam. don't shoot the messenger.
If he has to use boil-over hyperbole and outright falsehoods to make his
point then while I might not shoot the messenger I'll sure put a boot up his
ass. YMMV, but when someone lies to me I figure he is in effect telling me
he thinks I'm not smart enough to figure out what's happening.
Alternatively if Rall actually believes the bullshit he's slinging then that
makes him such a prisoner of dogma as to be hopelessly unreliable. The
reality of what has happened in Iraq and Afghanistan is bad enough, nobody
needs to indulge in this sort of self-indulgent theatrics to convince us of
what a mess those wars are and will continue to be. Sorry, but I don't
think there is such a thing as a story too good to fact-check, and lying for
truth isn't going to cut it for me.
DGDevin
> On 2009-11-21 03:49:25 +0900, "DGDevin" <dgd...@invalid.invalid>
Link to what? Are you asking me to disprove Rall's claim that the loss of
life in Iraq and Afghanistan has gone virtually unmentioned in the American
news media, that there have been no angry editorials, and so on?
*Seriously*?
DGDevin
> Rall shouldn't have stated flat-out that "The American military has
> killed roughly two million people in Afghanistan and Iraq since 2001"
> without saying where and how he got those numbers. But I don't doubt
> his characterization and inference that hundreds of thousands of
> foreigners have died, many likely due to U.S.-led military action.
Why worry about just one element of his polemic when the whole thing is
incredible in the original meaning of the word? Many of the supposed
2,000,000 dead killed with chemical and radioactive weapons? Predator drone
strikes "rain death" on Pakistan (like B-52s are carpet-bombing the place),
any mention of dead Iraqis or Afghans is shouted down or ignored, editorial
writers haven't said a word about such deaths, it's shocking that the FBI is
investigating a mass murder on American soil by an American soldier who
killed other American soldiers rather than investigating deaths in
Afghanistan and Iraq?
Shall we ignore that the FBI *has* investigated crimes including murder by
American soldiers in Iraq? Shall we ignore that Human Rights Watch says the
death rate in the Afghan insurgency has been about 1,000 a year? Shall we
ignore that Iraq Body Count says about a third of violent fatalities in Iraq
are attributable to occupation forces and the total insurgency-related
deaths they've been able to document (although they agree that number is
incomplete) is about 110,000? As IBC has pointed out, if the number of
violent deaths in Iraq is really as high as some would claim, then in some
areas the male population (80% of such deaths have been male) would have
been literally decimated without the media, NGOs, the occupation, the Iraqi
govt. or the Iraqi health care system noticing.
Of course Rall is correct about some things--many Americans do tend to be
ignorant and even indifferent to what happens elsewhere in the world. As
one American soldier put it: America isn't at war, the U.S. military is at
war, America is at the mall. But in trying to arouse concern (or perhaps
just indignation in the choir he preaches to) Rall goes off the rails and
makes claims that do not survive even cursory examination. Sure, he's not a
journalist, he's a polemicist, an advocate. But in leaving out inconvenient
facts and repeating falsehoods he becomes part of the problem--some of
Rall's readers will go away happily repeating that the U.S. has killed two
million Iraqis and Afghanis. IBC has been slammed by the right for
reporting too many deaths, and the left for reporting too few--that leads me
to suspect they're on the right track so I'll give them the benefit of the
doubt, they're at least trying to get it right. But Rall apparently doesn't
give a damn what the facts are. I don't accept that his distortions are
accidental, I think he figures The Cause means his story is too good to
fact-check. The antidote to Bush administration lies about Iraq and
Afghanistan is not counter-balancing lies from the left--how about the truth
instead?
Edwin Hurwitz
"DGDevin" <dgd...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
> Of course Rall is correct about some things--many Americans do tend to be
> ignorant and even indifferent to what happens elsewhere in the world. As
> one American soldier put it: America isn't at war, the U.S. military is at
> war, America is at the mall.
That was the battle plan directly from the chimp in chief. No reason for
the military folks who put their lives on the line to get in such a
swivet. They should look to their leaders for reason and accountability.
But, no, they decide to take matters into their own hands and torture
people without their commanders knowledge or approval.
Those silly soldiers.
Edwin
--
If you want to make peace, you don't talk to your friends. You talk to your
enemies.
-Moshe Dayan
Ray O'Hara
"DGDevin" <dgd...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:yt6dnZSJhd4z4JTW...@earthlink.com...
> band beyond description wrote:
>
> Of course Rall is correct about some things--many Americans do tend to be
> ignorant and even indifferent to what happens elsewhere in the world.
can you point out a country where the inhabitants are worried about what
happens in others countries?
"Americans don't care about others" well who does? and we send a shitload
more money to help people than anybody else.
American people sent millions to the Tsunami victims. we do more than
anybody else that's for sure.
Garry the Island Boy
<everybody's.d...@that.rag.com> wrote:
> love the closing:
>
> The punk band T.S.O.L. wrote the soundtrack to this attitude a
> quarter-century ago: "We live in the American zone/Free of fear in our
> American home/Swimming pool and digital phone."
>
> Still wondering why they hate us?
>
> http://www.rall.com/2009/11/syndicated-column-13-2000000.html
>
> Thursday, November 12, 2009
> SYNDICATED COLUMN: 13 > 2,000,000
>
>
> American lives are worth a lot. So when Americans get killed, it's a
> big story. There are lots of editorials. Congressmen call for
> investigations. We want to find out what happened, why it happened, and
> how to make sure it never happens again.
>
> The lives of foreigners, on the other hand, are pretty much worthless.
> Even when they die because Americans killed them, news accounts marking
> their deaths are short, sweet, and short-lived. Congressional
> investigations? No way. To the contrary! If anyone is inconsiderate
> enough to mention the killings of people overseas in a public forum,
> they get shouted down or simply ignored.
>
> places this dichotomy in sharp relief.
>
> The FBI is already helping Army investigators. In addition, Senator Joe
> Lieberman has announced that his Homeland Security and Governmental
> Affairs Committee will launch a full investigation into "every angle"
> of the shooting, including the motives of the suspect and whether or
> not government eavesdroppers could have prevented it by notifying Army
> officials of his contacts with a radical Muslim cleric. Over in the
> House, Representative Silvestre Reyes, a Texas Democrat, has summoned
> national intelligence director Dennis Blair to answer questions about
> Fort Hood before the Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence.
>
> But wait—there's more. "Other committees may also launch investigations
> into how the Army missed warning signs about the accused," reports The
> Politico.
>
> All sorts of hands are being wrung.
>
> Major Hasan, an army psychiatrist, ministered to victims of
> post-traumatic stress syndrome who told him terrible stories about
> combat in Afghanistan and Iraq. Should someone have helped him cope too?
>
> Ordered to deploy to the war zone, he asked not to go—and was refused.
> Should the Army be more flexible?
>
> Is it reasonable to ask a religious Muslim to deploy to Afghanistan or
> Iraq, wars where he would be asked to kill his coreligionists?
>
> Then there are the phone taps. "U.S. military officials said
> intelligence agencies intercepted communications between Hasan and
> Anwar al-Awlaki, a former imam at the Dar Al-Hijrah Islamic Center in
> Falls Church, Virginia, a Washington suburb," reported CNN. "Al-Awlaki,
> who left the United States in 2002 and is believed to be living in
> Yemen, was the subject of several federal investigations dating back to
> the late 1990s, but was never charged." As jihadis do at the start of
> an attack, Hasan reportedly cried "Allahu Akbar" before opening fire.
> Shouldn't someone have noticed that the nice shrink with the dopey
> smile had become a radical Islamist?
>
> The shock, grief and soul-searching are all reasonable reactions to a
> brutal and tragic event. But it's not hard to imagine how it looks to
> the outside world. While the media and public obsess over the deaths of
> 13 fellow Americans, they ignore the deaths of hundreds of thousands of
> foreigners.
>
> The American military has killed roughly two million people in
> declaration of war, no UN mandate—and are largely recognized as such by
> the American public. Many of the victims were killed with chemical and
> radioactive weapons, and some while under torture. In other words,
> these are crimes—some of the biggest mass murders in human history.
>
> So where are the Congressional investigations? Don't we want to find
> out what happened, how it happened, and make sure it never happens
> again? Apparently not.
>
> President Obama has chosen to "move forward" instead. No one—not George
> W. Bush, nor his advisers, nor the military officers who carried out
> his illegal orders, is being held accountable.
>
> There are no angry editorials. The illegal wars, instead of being
> brought to an end, are being ramped up. The crimes—yes, including the
> torture—continues. But it's OK—as long as it doesn't happen here in the
> United States. It's OK to rain death on Pakistanis using drone
> planes...gotta spare those precious American lives!
>
> Mass murder is shocking when the victims are Americans; it's doubly
> shocking when it happens in America.
>
> Thirteen soldiers die in Texas and it's all we talk about. Two million
> die in Afghanistan and Iraq and we don't notice and we don't even want
> to hear about it. Only 12 percent of Americans aged 18 to 24 can find
> Afghanistan on a map.
>
> The punk band T.S.O.L. wrote the soundtrack to this attitude a
> quarter-century ago: "We live in the American zone/Free of fear in our
> American home/Swimming pool and digital phone."
>
> Still wondering why they hate us?
>
> memoir "The Year of Loving Dangerously." He is also the author of the
> 2002 graphic travelogue "To Afghanistan and Back.")
>
> COPYRIGHT 2009 TED RALL
> --
> Peace,
> Steve
Remember what they did to Kennedy? Same thing. . .
G.
Garry the Island Boy
Garry the Island Boy
> "DGDevin" <dgde...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
Australia, Germany, China, Cuba, Venezuela, France, Great Britain,
Canada, and other "Socialist" countries do send aid to countries in
need, Just because you don't read it in the daily news doesn't mean it
doesn't take place. And the amount we send is a small portion of GNP.
As for doing more, it depends on your yardstick. We often send money
with strings that it be used to buy services and aid from our own
corporations.
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Global_Economy/GA07Dj02.html
"US policy dictates that much foreign aid be spent on costly imported
medicines, weapons, agricultural produce or manufactured goods."
Oh, Australia and Germany gave the most for the tsunami aid, so get
your facts straight. . .
G.
PS Cuba offered free medical to New Orleans and Venezuela offered free
fuel oil to the East Coast. . .
Garry the Island Boy
<everybody's.d...@that.rag.com> wrote:
> Development Assistance (aid sent overseas to countries in need) has
> traditionally been in the hundreds of billions of yen.
>
> http://www.mofa.go.jp/POLICY/oda/index.html
>
> http://www.mofa.go.jp/POLICY/oda/budget/index.html
> --
> Peace,
> Steve
Thanks Steve, again, a voice of reason in the dark.
G.