Lowell George and Jerry Garcia
Rickard Gustafsson
late seventies and I would like to know if these two great guitarists Lowell
George and Jerry Garcia ever played together, and if anybody got it on tape.
If so, I would like to make a trade. Please contact me on my e-mailaddress.
Rickard
Gothenburg, Sweden
Mitch Gilbert
I haven't seen any tapes of the two of them playing together. Lowell George
produced Shakedown Street, so there may be a chance that some outtakes from
those recording sessions may have Lowell George on them. I have never seen
or heard anything with the two together.
Mitch
Bill
On 28 Jun 1996, Rickard Gustafsson wrote:
> Little Feat and Grateful Dead has been two of my favourite bands since the
> late seventies and I would like to know if these two great guitarists Lowell
> George and Jerry Garcia ever played together, and if anybody got it on tape.
> If so, I would like to make a trade. Please contact me on my e-mailaddress.
The Dead hired Lowell George to produce the album "Shakedown Street" in
1977. There were many similarities between the two. Little Feat was
known to be great in concert while their studio efforts didn't match the
live performance of the same songs. This was the same thing said about
the Dead. In addition, Lowell George was addicted to heroin and a big
coke user at the time that Shakedown Street was being made. He ended up
dying in the middle of producing Shakedown Street (from a heart attack I
believe like Jerry, he was carrying some extra weight like Jerry). What I
wonder is did Jerry's heroin use get rekindled working with Lowell. From
what I've read, the two got along great and I'm sure the two did some
partying together while this album was being made. In Scully's book,
Scully says of Lowell, "Lowell reminds the Dead of Pigpen and their roots
and Jerry loves him for that...The Dude is laid back, for sure. Wears his
Oshkosh overalls, a big baggie of coke hanging out of his hammer pocket."
There is a definite drop off in the quality of playing between '77 and '78
and I believe this was due to an increase in his heroin use and possibly
coke. Could just be a coincidence, though knowing how it all came out, I
wish they had found someone like Springsteen who had their shit together
to produce Shakedown Street. Just weren't that many people though in '77
and '78 who worked in rock and roll and had their shit together
unfortunately.
Bill
Mitch Goldman
Bill <bcro...@ecst.csuchico.edu> writes:
>
>
>
>
>The Dead hired Lowell George to produce the
> album "Shakedown Street"in
>1977. There were many similarities between the two.
> Little Feat was
>known to be great in concert while their studio efforts didn't match
>the live performance of the same songs.
> This was the same thing said about
>the Dead.
Little Feat's live shows *were*, great,
but their recordings translated their energy
very well, much better than most of the Dead's
recorded output. Unlike the Dead, Feat did not
have a reputation of being unable to make great
records. Quite the contrary.
> In addition, Lowell George was addicted to heroin and a big
>coke user at the time that Shakedown Street was being made.
Hearsay. And heresy, I might add.
> He ended up
>dying in the middle of producing Shakedown Street
Lowell died during his solo tour
in the summer of 1979; SHAKEDOWN was recorded
and released in 78. He may have *slept* through
the production of the SHAKEDOWN lp but he
wasn't dead, not yet.
>There is a definite drop off in the
> quality of playing between '77 and '78
>and I believe this was due to an increase in his heroin use and
>possibly
>coke.
I saw Feat with Lowell on their final
tour in fall 78, and he did not seem to
me to be a musician in decline.
> Could just be a coincidence, though knowing how it all came out, I
>wish they had found someone like Springsteen who had their shit
>together
>to produce Shakedown Street.
I won't even touch this one.
Mitch
Seth Jackson
>Little Feat and Grateful Dead has been two of my favourite bands since the
>late seventies and I would like to know if these two great guitarists Lowell
>George and Jerry Garcia ever played together, and if anybody got it on tape.
>If so, I would like to make a trade. Please contact me on my e-mailaddress.
Lowell George produced the Shakedown St. album for the Dead, if I'm
not mistaken. Rumor has it that Mr. George is the one responsible for
teaching Bobby to play slide. I think we can forgive him for that. :^)
I've finally got it figured out - it was kinda like Yoda dying before
Luke could become a Jedi! :^)
--
Seth Jackson
Seth Jackson's Songwriting Page: http://www.cinenet.net/users/speaker
Songwriting and the Music Business, plus the Online "Country Notes" for the Los Angeles area
Bill
On 29 Jun 1996, Mitch Goldman wrote:
> Bill <bcro...@ecst.csuchico.edu> writes:
> >
> >
> > The Dead hired Lowell George to produce the album "Shakedown Street"
> > in 1977. There were many similarities between the two. Little Feat
> > was known to be great in concert while their studio efforts didn't
> > match the live performance of the same songs.
> > This was the same thing said about the Dead.
>
> Little Feat's live shows *were*, great,
> but their recordings translated their energy
> very well, much better than most of the Dead's
> recorded output. Unlike the Dead, Feat did not
> have a reputation of being unable to make great
> records. Quite the contrary.
I'll take your word on this. I had read a quote somewhere (in Scully's
book I thought but I can't find it) saying Little Feat's recordings didn't
match their live shows.
> > In addition, Lowell George was addicted to heroin and a big
> >coke user at the time that Shakedown Street was being made.
>
> Hearsay. And heresy, I might add.
Rolling Stone did an article about 3 weeks ago about the prevalence of
heroin among the rock musicians of today. It was in that article I
believe that I read he was a heroin addict. In addition Scully in his
book implied Lowell George had a problem with heroin when he says, "Lowell
had a problem and he didn't know it. We didn't know we had a problem -
we're all using the same damn drug (rest snipped)." From reading the
book, it is clear to me his is talking about heroin (or a derivative) here
and not coke or anything else. I believe Scully here. It comes across in
the book that Scully liked LG so I don't think he'd just say this w/out
some basis. Scully is certainly biased in what he says (he hates Weir
IMO) so the reader does have to take what he says with a big grain of salt
but I believe what he says here about LG since he was around him for the
making of the Shakedown Street album and has no reason to straightout lie.
> > He ended up
> >dying in the middle of producing Shakedown Street
>
> Lowell died during his solo tour
> in the summer of 1979; SHAKEDOWN was recorded
> and released in 78. He may have *slept* through
> the production of the SHAKEDOWN lp but he
> wasn't dead, not yet.
I knew I'd get caught on this one. Scully even says in the book that he
died seven months after the release of Shakedown Street. I said this
cause I thought I had read an interview w/ Jerry or Bob (or someone) where
they said LG had died while making the album. Ya got me. :) And yes I
agree with you that someone important was asleep when that album got made.
That was the most sterile liveless album. I couldn't believe they
released it as it was. Jerry's solo on Good Lovin had *nothing* IMO. A
person playing guitar for less than a year could have done a more
interesting solo. And Shakedown Street (the song) on that CD does nothing
for me. I just couldn't believe they released such a mediocre record
without knowing it sucked. That album alone indicates that either Lowell
or whoever tookover for him was having trouble concentrating on the
quality of the music.
> >There is a definite drop off in the
> > quality of playing between '77 and '78
> >and I believe this was due to an increase in his heroin use and
> >possibly
> >coke.
>
> I saw Feat with Lowell on their final
> tour in fall 78, and he did not seem to
> me to be a musician in decline.
I was talking about Jerry. I could have made this clearer.
> > Could just be a coincidence, though knowing how it all came out, I
> > wish they had found someone like Springsteen who had their shit
> > together to produce Shakedown Street.
>
> I won't even touch this one.
I know that Springsteen would never have been considered since the styles
were very different and Springsteen at that time was the new kid on the
block (relatively speaking). I'm just saying that had Jerry had a
different person around him producing that record that was not into coke
and heroin yet was still way into the music, Jerry might not have had the
dropoff that I believe he had sometime in '78. Of course it's all
speculation, but there are reasons in my mind to think Jerry's drop off in
'78 and him and LG getting together could be partially related. I'm not
saying it's fact, just speculating. Jerry didn't have the dropoff after
working with Keith Olsen (who was considered clean as far as drug use
went) on Terrapin Station and it was a better record than Shakedown Street
IMO. You might not like Springsteen, but he did and does have his shit
together regarding drug use. He's always been able to concentrate on
getting his releases to sound the way he wants them to sound.
Bill
> Mitch
Scot age 34 look 24 act 14. -thats a j
>Little Feat and Grateful Dead has been two of my favourite bands since the
>late seventies and I would like to know if these two great guitarists Lowell
>George and Jerry Garcia ever played together, and if anybody got it on tape.
>If so, I would like to make a trade. Please contact me on my e-mailaddress.
together but I am not aware of any tapes floating around,
Good Luck
scot
Mitch Gilbert
In article <4r2omf$a...@marina.cinenet.net>,
spe...@cinenet.net (Seth Jackson) wrote:
>rickard.g...@mailbox.swipnet.se (Rickard Gustafsson) wrote:
>
>>Little Feat and Grateful Dead has been two of my favourite bands since the
>>late seventies and I would like to know if these two great guitarists Lowell
>>George and Jerry Garcia ever played together, and if anybody got it on tape.
>>If so, I would like to make a trade. Please contact me on my e-mailaddress.
>
>not mistaken. Rumor has it that Mr. George is the one responsible for
>teaching Bobby to play slide. I think we can forgive him for that. :^)
>
Having witnessed Bobby "playing" slide during the shows of that period, it's not
apparrent to me that Lowell George taught him anything. It appeared to me that
it was purely trial and error (mostly error). I thought that the slide solo
Bobby did on Minglewood Blues on 3/24/95 was some evidence that he had, in fact,
learned to play slide guitar eventually.
Mitch
Chris Forshay
in digest #972, Bill <bcro...@ecst.csuchico.edu> posted:
|In addition Scully in his
|book implied Lowell George had a problem with heroin when he says, "Lowell
|had a problem and he didn't know it. We didn't know we had a problem -
|we're all using the same damn drug (rest snipped)." From reading the
|book, it is clear to me his is talking about heroin (or a derivative) here
|and not coke or anything else.
you are mistaken. he is referring to coke. jerry was a very big cokehead
before he became a heroin addict. the dead were heavily into coke at the
time they were recording shakedown street. lowell george was a peripheral
member of the eagles/rondstadt/browne/zevon l.a. "cocaine cowboy" axis.
perhaps i am mistaken, but to my knowledge, lowell george was never a
heroin addict.
Chris Forshay
rickard.g...@mailbox.swipnet.se (Rickard Gustafsson) wrote:
|Little Feat and Grateful Dead has been two of my favourite bands since the
|late seventies and I would like to know if these two great guitarists
Lowell
|George and Jerry Garcia ever played together, and if anybody got it on
tape.
any such tape would sound like a nose-flute duet, if you catch my
meaning....
Mitch Goldman
In <4r9d0g$a...@agate.berkeley.edu> Chris Forshay <FOR...@ceb.ucop.edu>
writes:
> perhaps i am mistaken, but to my knowledge, lowell george was never a
>heroin addict.
You're not mistaken, Chris, just
battling more of that good ol' r.m.g
misinformation...
Mitch
Steve Milewski
Neither have I heard any work between the two of these guys, but if
there's anything out there, it sure would be nice to hear!
The closest we ever came was at the 1979 show at Portland
International Raceway in Oregon when Bob Weir made the
comment/dedication, "This one's for Lowell George. He was good while
he lasted."
Onto another topic - and one which was discussed for a bit on this
newsgroup several years ago but never really resolved...
Did Jerry/the Dead ever jam with Clapton?
There are some tapes of the Flushing Meadows, NY shows circulating
that have fill material marked as, "jam with Clapton".
I asked David Gans to verify, and he said that to his knowledge they
never jammed together.
However, there's a book, and I don't recall at this writing which one,
that has a picture of Jerry and Eric Clapton posing together for the
camera (w/o their guitars). Plus... the tape does sound like it could
be Clapton joining in.
Steve
scomeau
Chris Forshay (FOR...@ceb.ucop.edu) wrote:
: in digest #972, Bill <bcro...@ecst.csuchico.edu> posted:
: |In addition Scully in his
: |book implied Lowell George had a problem with heroin when he says, "Lowell
: |had a problem and he didn't know it. We didn't know we had a problem -
: |we're all using the same damn drug (rest snipped)." From reading the
: |book, it is clear to me his is talking about heroin (or a derivative) here
: |and not coke or anything else.
: you are mistaken. he is referring to coke. jerry was a very big cokehead
: before he became a heroin addict. the dead were heavily into coke at the
: time they were recording shakedown street. lowell george was a peripheral
: member of the eagles/rondstadt/browne/zevon l.a. "cocaine cowboy" axis.
: perhaps i am mistaken, but to my knowledge, lowell george was never a
: heroin addict.
As I recall, the buzz going around (no pun intended) after Lowell's death
at the tender age of 32 was that he abused whiskey and cocaine. Basically,
he wore his body down and had a heart attack. Of course, there may have
been mitigating circumstances like heart disease in his family, etc., but
I can't remember reading anything about that subject. I was getting
Rolling Stone magazine back in those days and I believe that's where I
read about the circumstances of his death.
---
*"Nothin' to tell now. Steve Comeau (Matsushita Electric Corp.)
* Let the words be yours, sco...@cnct.com
* I'm done with mine." Barlow Tel. 201-348-7778 Fax 201-348-7742
jeff tiedrich
In article <4rb6rj$a...@platform.uoregon.edu>, mile...@oregon.uoregon.edu
(Steve Milewski) wrote:
> Onto another topic - and one which was discussed for a bit on this
> newsgroup several years ago but never really resolved...
>
> Did Jerry/the Dead ever jam with Clapton?
>
> There are some tapes of the Flushing Meadows, NY shows circulating
> that have fill material marked as, "jam with Clapton".
>
Well ... that material -is- a jam with Clapton, but the people Clapton's
jamming with are Peter Green, Junior Wells and Fleetwood Mac. No Dead
content. For details check http://www.tiedrich.com/tapelist/correx.html
.tiedrich
--
je...@tiedrich.com - http://www.tiedrich.com/ "Get your nose out of
see the Resources For Tape Traders web tiedrich's ass -- he's
page at http://www.tiedrich.com/tapelist/ a jerk!" -- anonymous
Bill
On 1 Jul 1996, Chris Forshay wrote:
> in digest #972, Bill <bcro...@ecst.csuchico.edu> posted:
>
> |In addition Scully in his
> |book implied Lowell George had a problem with heroin when he says, "Lowell
> |had a problem and he didn't know it. We didn't know we had a problem -
> |we're all using the same damn drug (rest snipped)." From reading the
> |book, it is clear to me his is talking about heroin (or a derivative) here
> |and not coke or anything else.
>
> you are mistaken. he is referring to coke. jerry was a very big cokehead
> before he became a heroin addict. the dead were heavily into coke at the
> time they were recording shakedown street. lowell george was a peripheral
> member of the eagles/rondstadt/browne/zevon l.a. "cocaine cowboy" axis.
> perhaps i am mistaken, but to my knowledge, lowell george was never a
> heroin addict.
Ahh but it is you that may be mistaken. About the time they were making
Shakedown St. ('78) Jerry was doing Persian (a morphine derivative) and
often. He also was doing coke by itself as well as with the Persian to
keep the Persian from evaporating (smoking the combo is called
speedballing). Scully mentions that Jerry was using Persian often in the
making of Cats Down Under the Stars album which was fall, '77. He also
mentions an episode where Garcia burned most everything in his hotel room
in Providence, RI, due to an accident from smoking Persian. This must be
May, '78 as they did shows there then (and none in '76 or '77) and Scully
mentions '77 in the same section (he probably meant '78 - a typical
mistake in his book). This also coincides with the time period that
Shakedown St. was being made. And this also coincides with the definite
decline in Jerry's playing between '77 and '78.
As for doing coke solo, the Dead had been doing coke w/out Persian since
the 60's. For all the tours in the 70's coke use was quite common and
even a necessity due to lack of sleep from having to get to the next gig.
At one point in the book, Scully even says something to the effect that
their coke use was so common and had been a part of their lifestyle on the
road for so many years, that nobody thought much of it.
As for Lowell George's habits, I was in the library today so I thought I'd
reread the Rolling Stone article and look up any other articles on him.
The May 30, 1996 article on heroin use among rockstars mentions him and
implies he was a heroin addict. In addition, in the July 16, 1979 People
magazine article on LG's death, the author writes, "... and a painful back
operation 20 months ago had left him a morphine habit he found hard to
break." Since he had died about the beginning of July of 1979, 20 months
earlier is about November, 1977, which is months before he started working
on Shakedown St so that by the time of Shakedown St, he is addicted to
morphine.
Since at the time of the making of Shakedown St in '78, both Jerry and LG
were addicted to morphine (the active ingredient in Persian and heroin),
it is not unreasonable to assume the two were doing it together since they
were with each other for large parts of the day and night and using
at the same time. I don't think one would hide it from the other.
So since Scully never says what drug he is talking about when he referred
to both the Dead and LG not knowing they had a drug problem and both are
using the same drug, it's impossible to know what drug he is talking
about. An argument can be made for both coke or morphine.
Bill
Bill
On 2 Jul 1996, Mitch Goldman wrote:
> Chris Forshay <FOR...@ceb.ucop.edu writes:
>
> > perhaps i am mistaken, but to my knowledge, lowell george was never a
> > heroin addict.
>
> You're not mistaken, Chris, just
> battling more of that good ol' r.m.g
> misinformation...
>
> Mitch
A good rule of thumb is to be sure you are right when you label someone
else's writing as misinformation. Anyway, I was in the school library and
thought I'd reread the Rolling Stone article I mentioned in an earlier
post (to which Chris is referring to above) and see what else was written
concerning Lowell George's possible heroin addiction. Me thinks you
should read the May 30, 1996 Rolling Stone article on heroin use among
today's rockstars and the July 16, 1979 People magazine article on LG's
death. Actually I'll save you the trouble and summarize here. In the May
30, 1996 RS article on heroin use among rock stars, the author mentions LG
and implies he was a heroin user when he says "many of those pictured (on
the overhead projector at a music industry conference on drug abuse) were
heroin users", then gives a list of rock stars including LG. In addition,
the author of the July 16, 1979 People magazine article on LG's death
writes that he had a morphine habit from a back operation 20 months before
his death that he found hard to break. I don't think much of People
magazine but I've never heard of anyone suing them for getting their facts
wrong and a morphine addiction after a back operation is not farfetched.
So at one time he probably did have a morphine addiction (it does not
state whether he ever overcame it) and morphine is the active ingredient
of heroin. Thus he was using some substance to get his morphine fix and
heroin may have been that substance. I said he was a heroin addict in an
earlier post when I should have included the words "may have been".
Bill
Michael Stone
scomeau (sco...@terra.cnct.com) wrote:
: As I recall, the buzz going around (no pun intended) after Lowell's death
: at the tender age of 32 was that he abused whiskey and cocaine.
A Very Reliable Source close to the George family, an individual who is
well known to many Deadheads, told me Lowell died from a bad batch of
cocaine.
Bill
I just read an article about it and it said that he was partying all night
and came home at 8:00 am, and had the heart attack at 10:00 am. This is
consistent with a bad batch of cocaine. He did have a reputation (like a
whole lot of other folks then) for liking to party and some of his
favorite partying substances were hard liquor, coke, quaaludes, and
possibly heroin. Also he was 34 when he died. Read a quote from Bonnie
Raitt were she said his death forced her to examine her own partying
lifestyle. He had produced one of her records. His death hit a lot of
folks pretty hard. They had a concert for his wife and kids after he died
that raised a quarter million featuring lots of southern California
rockstars. Also hadn't known that he had quit Little Feat (the name came
from LG's 9.5 foot size) 6 months before his death and was touring with
his own band.
Bill
David Ruppe
In article <Pine.HPP.3.92.960703012728.28029A-
>
> I just read an article about it and it said that he was partying all
> night and came home at 8:00 am, and had the heart attack at 10:00
> am. This is consistent with a bad batch of cocaine. He did have
> a reputation (like a whole lot of other folks then) for liking to
> party and some of his favorite partying substances were hard liquor,
> coke, quaaludes, and possibly heroin. Also he was 34 when he died.
> Read a quote from Bonnie Raitt were she said his death forced her
> to examine her own partying lifestyle. He had produced one of her
> records. His death hit a lot of folks pretty hard. They had a
> concert for his wife and kids after he died that raised a quarter
> million featuring lots of southern California rockstars. Also
> hadn't known that he had quit Little Feat (the name came from
> LG's 9.5 foot size) 6 months before his death and was touring with his
> own band.
>
> Bill
>
my memories of that time (i was a big original feats fan) were that he had not
quit little feat, he had released a solo album, and was touring in support of
this. when he died, he had granted "interviews" in his hotel room (in va
outside dc, near nat'l airport) until 5:0am, and was found dead around
10:00am. he had had health problems for a while, including hepatitius, and
was quite overweight (sound familiar?)
pretty sure the above is right
peace...david
ODC: used to have a shirt that read-
"when the deads away, the feats will play"
Murphy, Bob
In article <Pine.HPP.3.92.960703012728.28029A-
100...@steroid.ecst.csuchico.edu>, Bill <bcro...@ecst.csuchico.edu> writes:
| I just read an article about it and it said that he was partying all
| night and came home at 8:00 am, and had the heart attack at 10:00
|
| Bill
________________
|rom: rup...@psi.com (David Ruppe) added:
|my memories of that time (i was a big original feats fan) were that he had
not
|quit little feat, he had released a solo album, and was touring in support of
|this. when he died, he had granted "interviews" in his hotel room (in va
|outside dc, near nat'l airport) until 5:0am, and was found dead around
|10:00am. he had had health problems for a while, including hepatitius, and
|was quite overweight (sound familiar?)
|pretty sure the above is right
|peace...david
|ODC: used to have a shirt that read-
| "when the deads away, the feats will play"
I was (and am) also a big fan of the original Little Feat and have many
fond memories of going to both early and late shows at the Warner. They were
very big here in the Washington, D.C. area, filling the Warner Theater for 2
shows a night for five nights in a row. My memories of his death agree with
David's account. Lowell George had not left Little Feat, although there were
rumors that the band was ticked off at LG for his lifestyle and he was very
overweight - but oh!, could he play the slide. LG was on a solo tour to
promote his solo album (Thanks, I'll Eat It Here) and had just played at the
Warner. As David mentioned, he then went back to his hotel in northern VA
(just across the Potomac river). I thought I remember reading in the paper
that he was using prescription anti-depressants and drinking hard liquor (a
bad combo). I really miss the "fat man in the bathtub"
The ODC for my post is to note that after Lowell George's death, Little
Feat broke up. After a 7-8 year hiatus, the remaining members put it back
together. Feat II is not the same as the original, but make some fine music
and are able to play original Feat tunes in the same style. This approach
could work for the Dead as well. Take a few years to find a new path (find
themselves) and then dust off those rusty strings one more time. - Bob
P.S. When I first saw a "The Fat Man Rocks" bumper sticker at a Dead show in
1981 I knew they meant Jerry, but it brought back memories of LG.
Chris Forshay
in digest #14, Bill <bcro...@ecst.csuchico.edu> posted:
|Ahh but it is you [referring to me] that may be mistaken.
<snip>
|Scully mentions that Jerry was using Persian often
<snip>
|I thought I'd reread the Rolling Stone article
<snip>
|In addition, in the July 16, 1979 People magazine article
<snip>
wow, people magazine, rolling stone & rock scully. if research were
baseball.....
Chris Forshay
in digest #14, Bill <bcro...@ecst.csuchico.edu> posted:
|A good rule of thumb is to be sure you are right when you label someone
|else's writing as misinformation.
<snip>
|I said he was a heroin addict in an earlier post when I should have
included the words "may have been".
res ipsa loquitur.
Bill
On Wed, 3 Jul 1996, David Ruppe wrote:
> Bill <bcro...@ecst.csuchico.edu> writes:
>
> > (snip)
> > Also hadn't known that he had quit Little Feat (the name came from
> > LG's 9.5 foot size) 6 months before his death and was touring with his
> > own band.
> >
> my memories of that time (i was a big original feats fan) were that he had not
> quit little feat, he had released a solo album, and was touring in support of
> this. when he died, he had granted "interviews" in his hotel room (in va
> outside dc, near nat'l airport) until 5:0am, and was found dead around
> 10:00am. he had had health problems for a while, including hepatitius, and
> was quite overweight (sound familiar?)
>
> pretty sure the above is right
I am not and never was a big LF fan (not a shot at them, I just haven't
heard much of their music) but I read some articles that were printed
shortly after his death yesterday (two '79 Rolling Stone articles and 1
'79 People magazine article) and he did indeed quit LF. He got in a
dispute with another member who's name was Bill Payne I think. The two
apparently were incompatible and Lowell George felt his place in the band
was being diminished so he went off on his own.
Bill
Bill
On 3 Jul 1996, Murphy, Bob wrote:
> > (David's post snipped)
>
> I was (and am) also a big fan of the original Little Feat and have many
> fond memories of going to both early and late shows at the Warner. They were
> very big here in the Washington, D.C. area, filling the Warner Theater for 2
> shows a night for five nights in a row. My memories of his death agree with
> David's account. Lowell George had not left Little Feat, although there were
He had left LF because of a dispute with Bill Payne (I think that's what
his name was) six months before his death. Go to a library and find the
two Rolling Stone articles talking about him. They are from July and
August of 1979. His slide playing was considered exceptional, right up
there with Duane Allman. Wish I had seen them.
Bill
Bill
On 3 Jul 1996, Chris Forshay wrote:
>
> in digest #14, Bill <bcro...@ecst.csuchico.edu> posted:
>
> |Ahh but it is you [referring to me] that may be mistaken.
>
> <snip>
>
> |Scully mentions that Jerry was using Persian often
>
> <snip>
>
> |I thought I'd reread the Rolling Stone article
>
> <snip>
>
> |In addition, in the July 16, 1979 People magazine article
>
> <snip>
>
> wow, people magazine, rolling stone & rock scully. if research were
> baseball.....
As far as I know, nobody has ever sued Rolling Stone or People magazine
for misstating the truth. Yeah People magazine is fluff but they don't
pretend to be anything else. Have they ever made a mistake? Sure. So has
every other source of news. But on the whole, neither has a reputation
for blatantly misstating the truth. Please tell me about some of the many
lawsuits filed against Rolling Stone and/or People magazine for libelous
wrongful reporting. I'm sorry but I just haven't heard of them. Rock
Scully had some dates and names wrong in his book but as far as I know,
sloppy editing due to rushing to get the book on the market doesn't take
away from the fact that he *was* with the Dead almost everyday for about
20 years and on the whole, his general take on things is probably true. It
coincides with what I saw and heard of the band and the inside information
I had. Or was Scully working under you and you were closer to the band
then Scully? That's funny I've never seen any pictures of the Dead with
anyone with your name. Have you changed your name? When's your book
coming out?
Bill
Bill
On 3 Jul 1996, Chris Forshay wrote:
>
> in digest #14, Bill <bcro...@ecst.csuchico.edu> posted:
>
> |A good rule of thumb is to be sure you are right when you label someone
> |else's writing as misinformation.
>
> <snip>
>
> |I said he was a heroin addict in an earlier post when I should have
> included the words "may have been".
>
> res ipsa loquitur.
You need to pay better attention to what you read. Let's go through it
again *slowly*. I said: A good rule of thumb is to be sure you are right
-when-you-label-someone-else's-writing-(pay reeeeal close attention
here)-as-misinformation. See, even though I had admitted a mistake (BTW
just curious, have you ever?), I hadn't labeled anyone's post as
misinformation before I made that mistake. Got it. Write me back if it
aint clear and we'll try again.
Bill
redman
ge...@ix.netcom.com(Mitch Goldman) wrote:
>In <4r9d0g$a...@agate.berkeley.edu> Chris Forshay <FOR...@ceb.ucop.edu>
>writes:
>>
>> perhaps i am mistaken, but to my knowledge, lowell george was never a
>>heroin addict.
>
>You're not mistaken, Chris, just
>battling more of that good ol' r.m.g
>misinformation...
>
>Mitch
>
Listen to 'China White' as written and performed
by Lowell and see if you don't think he might have
used heroin after all.
redman
Chris Forshay
in digest #23, Bill <bcro...@ecst.csuchico.edu> posted:
|His [lg's] slide playing was considered exceptional, right up
there with Duane Allman. Wish I had seen them.
this is blasphemy of the highest order. as far as slide guitar goes, lowell
george was talented. duane allman was a genius.
Mitch Goldman
In <Pine.HPP.3.92.96070...@steroid.ecst.csuchico.edu>
Bill <bcro...@ecst.csuchico.edu> writes:
>
>
>
>A good rule of thumb is to be sure you are right when you label
someone
>else's writing as misinformation.
Poster, heal thyself.
> Anyway, I was in the school library and
>thought I'd reread the Rolling Stone article I mentioned in an earlier
>post (to which Chris is referring to above) and see what else was
written
>concerning Lowell George's possible heroin addiction. Me thinks you
>should read the May 30, 1996 Rolling Stone article on heroin use among
>today's rockstars and the July 16, 1979 People magazine article on
LG's
>death.
I've read them both (and not in a school
library), and methinks *you* are making
my argument for me.
Actually I'll save you the trouble and summarize here. In the May
>30, 1996 RS article on heroin use among rock stars, the author
mentions LG
>and implies he was a heroin user
hmmmm...I believe the word
"implies" has some significance here.
> In addition,
>the author of the July 16, 1979 People magazine article on LG's death
>writes that he had a morphine habit from a back operation 20 months
before
>his death that he found hard to break. I don't think much of People
>magazine but I've never heard of anyone suing them for getting their
facts
>wrong and a morphine addiction after a back operation is not
farfetched.
Right. But morphine and
heroin are not the same thing.
I'm not saying LG was *not* a heroin
user; just that this is far from
documented truth at this point in time,
and speculations about Garcia
and Lowell doing heroin together may
feed your morbid curiousity but are
ultimately beside the point (and certainly
beside the original subject of this post...
whether or not JG and LG *played* together.
Not *shot up* together...)
I saw your other post where you cobbled a few
"implications" together and then concluded...
"it's not unreasonable to assume"...blah blah
whatever. Assume all you want; but wouldn't you
be distressed if people took a few "implications"
and "assumptions" (your words) and potentially slandered
you on the 'net, in front of thousands? Or is
it okay to do it 'cause both Jerry and Lowell are
dead?
Mitch
Mitch Goldman
In <Pine.HPP.3.92.960703...@steroid.ecst.csuchico.edu>
Bill <bcro...@ecst.csuchico.edu> writes:
>
> Rock
>Scully had some dates and names wrong in his book but as far as I
know,
>sloppy editing due to rushing to get the book on the market doesn't
take
>away from the fact that he *was* with the Dead almost everyday for
about
>20 years and on the whole, his general take on things is probably
true. It
>coincides with what I saw and heard of the band and the inside
information
>I had.
THe guy who isn't *quite* sure who
Bill Payne is has inside info that
backs up Scully's book.
Stop the presses! Stringer Forest Gump
to the rescue!
Mitch
Bill
On 4 Jul 1996, Mitch Goldman wrote:
> Bill <bcro...@ecst.csuchico.edu> writes:
> > A good rule of thumb is to be sure you are right when you label
> > someone else's writing as misinformation.
> > Anyway, I was in the school library and
> > thought I'd reread the Rolling Stone article I mentioned in an earlier
> > post (to which Chris is referring to above) and see what else was
> > written
> > concerning Lowell George's possible heroin addiction. Me thinks you
> > should read the May 30, 1996 Rolling Stone article on heroin use among
> > today's rockstars and the July 16, 1979 People magazine article on
> > LG's death.
>
> I've read them both (and not in a school
> library), and methinks *you* are making
> my argument for me.
*What* you are arguing is not clear. I think you're still trying to
justify labeling my post as "misinformation". Watch out there, that
flimsy raft you're on doesn't look too stable.
> > Actually I'll save you the trouble and summarize here. In the May
> > 30, 1996 RS article on heroin use among rock stars, the author
> > mentions LG and implies he was a heroin user
>
> hmmmm...I believe the word
> "implies" has some significance here.
I hope so. That's why I used it.
> > In addition,
> > the author of the July 16, 1979 People magazine article on LG's death
> > writes that he had a morphine habit from a back operation 20 months
> > before
> > his death that he found hard to break. I don't think much of People
> > magazine but I've never heard of anyone suing them for getting their
> > facts wrong and a morphine addiction after a back operation is not
> > farfetched.
>
> Right. But morphine and
> heroin are not the same thing.
Of course the active ingredient in heroin *is* morphine. So if one is
addicted to heroin what he/she is really addicted to is the morphine in
the heroin. Just as Jerry was addicted to morphine as well in the form of
Persian which if I'm correct is not actually heroin. So whether one is
addicted to "heroin" or some other form of morphine seems immaterial to
me. Better get ready to jump cause I see your raft starting to break up.
> I'm not saying LG was *not* a heroin user;
So now you are backtracking and admitting that perhaps it wasn't
"misinformation". You seemed so sure before. I'll repeat what I said
earlier: be sure you *know* the truth before you accuse someone else of
posting misinformation. You now seem to agree he had a morphine
addiction. So now the only reason it's "misinformation" is because I
possibly named the wrong form of morphine he was addicted to. But then it
comes out from someone's post, that LG had written and performed a song
called "China White" (if someone has the lyrics handy, please post) which
is indication LG has had some experience with China White which if I not
mistaken *is* heroin. In addition, the writer of the Rolling Stone
article did say he was a heroin user (as I read it).
> just that this is far from
> documented truth at this point in time,
I think a song by LG about it and two articles on it is some
documentation.
> and speculations about Garcia
> and Lowell doing heroin together may
> feed your morbid curiousity but are
> ultimately beside the point (and certainly
> beside the original subject of this post...
> whether or not JG and LG *played* together.
> Not *shot up* together...)
I was commenting on the similarities (drug addiction, leader of their
respective band, more success from concerts than from albums, both
overweight and death from heart attack) between the two (Jerry and Lowell)
and what was happening at that time period with Jerry and the Dead
(decline in quality of shows). Remember this is Usenet and rmgd.
Discussions on the band and its members are allowed here. That's the
nature of threads. They start off in one direction, then someone else
responds and changes the direction of the thread and a discussion is had
on that. I'm sorry if discussing Jerry's drug problems are morbid to you
but I saw first hand what it did to a genius musician and so trying to
understand it is of interest to me.
> I saw your other post where you cobbled a few
> "implications" together and then concluded...
> "it's not unreasonable to assume"...blah blah
> whatever. Assume all you want; but wouldn't you
> be distressed if people took a few "implications"
> and "assumptions" (your words) and potentially slandered
> you on the 'net, in front of thousands? Or is
> it okay to do it 'cause both Jerry and Lowell are
> dead?
I documented my sources in each case so I wasn't making up anything. As
for the implications and assumptions you speak of, the question that I was
addressing was whether Scully was talking about cocaine or heroin when he
wrote the Dead and LG having a problem with the same drug. As I said in
that post, from the documented info out there, an argument can be made for
either one. It is you who assumed that if you didn't know about his
possible heroin addiction, then it must not have existed. Now you admit
you did not know about his morphine addiction. Thus you were in no
position to label someone else's post as misinformation when you admit
there are significant things about LG's life that you did not know about.
The only one doing the slandering here is you. Better get a stronger raft
next time cause there's nothing left of that one you were on.
Bill
> Mitch
Bill
On 4 Jul 1996, Mitch Goldman wrote:
> Bill <bcro...@ecst.csuchico.edu> writes:
> >
> > Rock
> > Scully had some dates and names wrong in his book but as far as I know
> > sloppy editing due to rushing to get the book on the market doesn't
> > take
> > away from the fact that he *was* with the Dead almost everyday for
> > about
> > 20 years and on the whole, his general take on things is probably
> > true. It
> > coincides with what I saw and heard of the band and the inside
> > information
> > I had.
>
> THe guy who isn't *quite* sure who
> Bill Payne is has inside info that
> backs up Scully's book.
Let's see if I got your logic right. Because I had inside info (that
being that Jerry was using heroin) that supported Scully's same assertions
I'm supposed to know who Bill Payne is?! Uhh, Scully's book was about the
Dead not Little Feat. Bill Payne was never in the Dead nor mentioned in
Scully's book. There seems to be just a bit of a discontinuity in your
logic. If someone could leap as well as your logic does, he/she would
definitely win the long jump competition this year in Atlanta.
> Stop the presses! Stringer Forest Gump
> to the rescue!
Not bad. Had a laugh myself on that one. But that logic you employ above
would make Forrest proud.
Bill
>
> Mitch
Mitch Goldman
In <Pine.HPP.3.92.960704...@steroid.ecst.csuchico.edu>
Bill <bcro...@ecst.csuchico.edu> writes:
>
>Let's see if I got your logic right. Because I had inside info (that
>being that Jerry was using heroin) that supported Scully's same
assertions
>I'm supposed to know who Bill Payne is?! Uhh, Scully's book was about
the
>Dead not Little Feat. Bill Payne was never in the Dead nor mentioned
in
>Scully's book. There seems to be just a bit of a discontinuity in
your
>logic.
Okay genius, this is my last
round with you. After that I'll
pretend you're back in school for
the rest of the semester...
1. You know absolutely *nothing* about Little
Feat; you've admitted in several posts that
you're not sure who Bill Payne is (yet every
yutz with ears who's heard "Oh Atlanta" on
the radio six thousand times knows who Bill is).
2. Despite your complete lack of knowledge, you
have made great assumptions here about LG's "heroin
usage". This based on two sources...a Rolling Stone
article and a People magazine article. *Neither* of
these articles label LG a heroin user.
3. You then further claim you have "inside" info
that backs up the claims in Scully's book, while
you dismiss his rampant factual errors as "rushing
to get the book to publication". Apparently you're
quite knowledgable about the publishing business.
STOP slandering LG. Go back to school. Go listen
to Little Feat and learn something about them.
This newsgroup has always had it share of rumor
mongers and half-truth tellers, but you're recent
appearance here is the first time I've seen someone
protest their rightness so strongly while admitting their
ignorance so loudly.
Mitch
Jeff Perry
In article
<Pine.HPP.3.92.960703...@steroid.ecst.csuchico.edu>, Bill
<bcro...@ecst.csuchico.edu> wrote:
> As far as I know, nobody has ever sued Rolling Stone or People magazine
> for misstating the truth. Yeah People magazine is fluff but they don't
> pretend to be anything else. Have they ever made a mistake? Sure. So has
> every other source of news. But on the whole, neither has a reputation
> for blatantly misstating the truth.
I guess you missed out on the great cover story of Patty Hearst
running from the law with the SLA ... an account of what Ms Hearst was
doing while she was missing... hangin' with Bill Walton and the whole
groovy SLA gang. Walton demanded a retraction and got it. Set Rolling
Stone's credibility back 5 years when they admitted the story was complete
bunk. I'm not sure but I think Hitler and Hughs wrote their diaries over
the "Random Notes" page.
Haven't bought a RS since Ralph Gleason died and they sold out to Hearst~Jeff
Bill
On 5 Jul 1996, Mitch Goldman wrote:
> 1. You know absolutely *nothing* about Little
> Feat; you've admitted in several posts that
> you're not sure who Bill Payne is (yet every
> yutz with ears who's heard "Oh Atlanta" on
> the radio six thousand times knows who Bill is).
My level of my knowledge of LF has nothing to do with the evidence I
presented for his morphine/heroin addiction.
> 2. Despite your complete lack of knowledge, you
> have made great assumptions here about LG's "heroin
> usage". This based on two sources...a Rolling Stone
> article and a People magazine article. *Neither* of
> these articles label LG a heroin user.
After writing the phrase, "many of those pictured were known heroin
users," the author in the Rolling Stone article lists ten people:
Hendrix, Sid Vicious, Johnny Thunders, Janis, Billie Holiday, James
Honeyman-Scott, Charlie Parker, Rory Gallagher, Lowell George, and Paul
Butterfield. Of those on the list besides LG, all except Rory Gallagher
and Johnny Thunders were known heroin users. I've heard of RG but know
nothing about him and I don't know who JT is. The fact that all seven of
the people whose drug habits are known on the list were heroin users
supports the interpretation that the author was tying together the phrase
in quotes above with the ten people mentioned. The fact that LG did have
a morphine habit (which you have acknowledged) and wrote a song called
China White (slang for heroin) also supports this interpretation.
> 3. You then further claim you have "inside" info
> that backs up the claims in Scully's book, while
> you dismiss his rampant factual errors as "rushing
> to get the book to publication". Apparently you're
> quite knowledgable about the publishing business.
As I said before, his "rampant factual errors" were due to sloppy editing
and a human memory that fades with time. He *was* with them almost
everyday for twenty years. To throw out everything he says because of
some sloppy editing is absurd. If Jerry hadn't died, that book would have
been released at a later date and undergone more editing. It was no
coincidence it was released right after Jerry died.
> STOP slandering LG. Go back to school. Go listen
> to Little Feat and learn something about them.
> This newsgroup has always had it share of rumor
> mongers and half-truth tellers, but you're recent
> appearance here is the first time I've seen someone
> protest their rightness so strongly while admitting their
> ignorance so loudly.
Again my lack of knowledge of LF is not pertinent to anything as I have
not used my personnel knowledge of LF in any point I was making. And
whether or not I possibly slandered LG depends on the interpretation of
the Rolling Stone article cited above which we disagree on. It also
depends on assuming there is a large difference between a heroin addiction
and a morphine addiction (which you have acknowledged he had). IMO there
isn't much difference as a heroin addiction *is* a morphine addiction. My
point the whole time has been that you had no basis to label my post as
"misinformation" when you did not know yourself whether or not it was
misinformation. You only assumed it was because you had no knowledge of
his possible heroin use. Even assuming for the moment that you are right
that the Rolling Stone article is not stating he was a heroin user (though
IMO it does), you still were clearly ignorant enough of LG's drug
(morphine) habits when you labeled my post as misinformation to give you
any basis to pass judgement on the validity of someone else's claim that
he was using heroin.
Bill
>
> Mitch
Bill
On Fri, 5 Jul 1996, Jeff Perry wrote:
> In article
Just in the last five years or so, there was an inspiring "true" story in
the Washington Post (or NY Times) written by a woman who got a pulitzer
(sp?) prize for it. It later came out that this "true" story was madeup
by her and I believe she lost the prize after it was discovered it was a
fraud. Does that make everything the Washington Post write suspect? Of
course not. As for the Bill Walton/Patty Hearst thing, that was close to
20 years ago. If Rolling Stone routinely makes serious mistakes, there
would be more lawsuits and demands of retractions than once every 20
years.
Bill
Chris Forshay
in digest #39, Bill <bcro...@ecst.csuchico.edu> posted:
|On 3 Jul 1996, Chris Forshay wrote:
|> wow, people magazine, rolling stone & rock scully. if research were
|> baseball.....
|As far as I know, nobody has ever sued Rolling Stone or People magazine
|for misstating the truth.
it may interest you to know that financially successful publications, such
as people & rolling stone, are sued regularly "for misstating the truth" by
persons claiming they've been maligned by said publications. (fwiw, i once
worked for the law firm that represented the publisher of people magazine.
i can assure you that most of these claims were, to say the least,
fanciful.) most of these suits are either dismissed early on or settled out
of court--keep that in mind the next time you see a "correction" in one of
these mags. either way, such lawsuits seldom draw publicity. rolling stone
*definitely* doesn't run a story announcing every law suit filed against it.
|Yeah People magazine is fluff but they don't
|pretend to be anything else. Have they ever made a mistake? Sure. So has
|every other source of news. But on the whole, neither has a reputation
|for blatantly misstating the truth.
neither has a reputation for unfailing devotion to accuracy. neither has a
reputation for being a worthy source for academic research. neither has a
reputation for depth.
|Please tell me about some of the many
|lawsuits filed against Rolling Stone and/or People magazine for libelous
|wrongful reporting. I'm sorry but I just haven't heard of them.
apology accepted. perhaps these magazines will put you on their mailing
lists for future lawsuit announcements..... seriously, as i've indicated,
few of these cases get any publicity. for some reason, news media are leery
about giving libel cases too much play. perhaps they're afraid coverage
would give people ideas....
| Rock Scully had some dates and names wrong in his book but as far as I
know,
|sloppy editing due to rushing to get the book on the market doesn't take
|away from the fact that he *was* with the Dead almost everyday for about
|20 years and on the whole, his general take on things is probably true.
nor does it take away from the fact that scully was a disgruntled, sacked
ex-employee with scores to settle and axes to grind. citing texts with
"some dates and names wrong" and "sloppy editing due to rushing" will not
get you very far in the world of research.
|It coincides with what I saw and heard of the band and the inside
information
|I had.
that's rich--everybody knew jerry had a drug problem. everybody also knew
that there was more to jerry than his drug problem. scully seems either not
to have known this or to have forgotten it the day after jerry died.
|Or was Scully working under you and you were closer to the band
|then Scully? That's funny I've never seen any pictures of the Dead with
|anyone with your name. Have you changed your name? When's your book
|coming out?
uh, yeah, i'm the one with the deviated septum..... seriously, we've gone
round & round on the scully book several times in the newsgroup. if you
want to accept every word in his book as gospel truth, then mazel tov.
please don't be surprised when you find
people aren't taking you too seriously.
Bill
On 8 Jul 1996, Chris Forshay wrote:
>
> in digest #39, Bill <bcro...@ecst.csuchico.edu> posted:
>
> |On 3 Jul 1996, Chris Forshay wrote:
>
> |> wow, people magazine, rolling stone & rock scully. if research were
> |> baseball.....
>
> |As far as I know, nobody has ever sued Rolling Stone or People magazine
> |for misstating the truth.
>
> it may interest you to know that financially successful publications, such
> as people & rolling stone, are sued regularly "for misstating the truth" by
> persons claiming they've been maligned by said publications. (fwiw, i once
> worked for the law firm that represented the publisher of people magazine.
> i can assure you that most of these claims were, to say the least,
> fanciful.) most of these suits are either dismissed early on or settled out
> of court--keep that in mind the next time you see a "correction" in one of
> these mags. either way, such lawsuits seldom draw publicity. rolling stone
> *definitely* doesn't run a story announcing every law suit filed against it.
So you worked (indirectly anyway) for Time, now Time-Warner? Oh well, one
day we all will (the ones with jobs anyway). As for lawsuits against
rolling stone and people, I wouldn't expect the one committing the error
to publicize it but other papers and magazines will if the one being
libelled is a big name. I haven't heard of any big names suing either
rolling stone or people - and winning.
> |Yeah People magazine is fluff but they don't
> |pretend to be anything else. Have they ever made a mistake? Sure. So has
> |every other source of news. But on the whole, neither has a reputation
> |for blatantly misstating the truth.
>
> neither has a reputation for unfailing devotion to accuracy. neither has a
> reputation for being a worthy source for academic research. neither has a
> reputation for depth.
If they aint being sued and losing suits for defaming people, then they
must be telling the truth most of the time. I agree neither has depth
though this isn't entirely true for Rolling Stone. They will do a big
writeup once in a while on an important topic by a credible writer
(William Grieder I know has written long pieces for RS).
> |Please tell me about some of the many |lawsuits filed against Rolling
> Stone and/or People magazine for libelous |wrongful reporting. I'm
> sorry but I just haven't heard of them.
>
> apology accepted.
Wise guy. :) I should have added to the above paragraph "by big names that
have won".
> perhaps these magazines will put you on their mailing
> lists for future lawsuit announcements..... seriously, as i've indicated,
> few of these cases get any publicity. for some reason, news media are leery
> about giving libel cases too much play. perhaps they're afraid coverage
> would give people ideas....
Fortunately there are still enough different sources of news (though the
number shrinks every year) so that if a big name is sued for libel, other
news sources will pick it up (for example, Westmoreland suing CBS).
> | Rock Scully had some dates and names wrong in his book but as far as I
> know,
> |sloppy editing due to rushing to get the book on the market doesn't take
> |away from the fact that he *was* with the Dead almost everyday for about
> |20 years and on the whole, his general take on things is probably true.
>
> nor does it take away from the fact that scully was a disgruntled, sacked
> ex-employee with scores to settle and axes to grind. citing texts with
> "some dates and names wrong" and "sloppy editing due to rushing" will not
> get you very far in the world of research.
To say a man who was with them everyday for 20 years has no credibility in
what he writes (or cowrites) about that same thing is wrong IMO. Also
neither one of us knows (at least I don't) what the editing process was
for that book. David Dalton helped with it and the misspelled names and
other errors of this sort could have been his work. Perhaps Dalton
interviewed and taped Scully and from this the book was written. I don't
know. I have a strong suspicion that Dalton, who never worked for the
Dead and was not a fan of the band as far as I know, was responsible for
most of the editing and errors with misspelled names and places. To not
cite the book cowritten by someone as close as Scully was to the band and
for as long a time as Scully was when trying to write on the Grateful Dead
would be an incomplete work IMO. You use it and you note any deficiencies
that you are aware of so the reader can use his own judgement on whether
it's a credible source.
> |It coincides with what I saw and heard of the band and the inside
> information
> |I had.
>
> that's rich--everybody knew jerry had a drug problem. everybody also knew
> that there was more to jerry than his drug problem. scully seems either not
> to have known this or to have forgotten it the day after jerry died.
Believe it or not but the Jerry you and I saw was not the Jerry Scully saw
IMO. I have no doubt that I have seen Jerry doing his thing (singing and
playing the geetar) upclose many more times than Scully has with much
better sound and viewing (had he ever seen a show from *in front of* the
stage since the 60's?). I wouldn't be surprised if Scully wasn't aware of
the true musical genius of the man because he was back stage for most of
the shows. I've seen a couple of shows from back stage and to be honest, I
prefer being in front of the stage because the sound and viewing sucked
backstage. Also drugs IMO *were* a big part of who Jerry was. You might
not like to hear that but IMO his fascination with mind-altering
substances sprung from the same well that his fascination with music came
from. The portrait you would write of Jerry as a big fan of his singing
and guitar playing would not, I believe, be the same portrait you would
write if you were his manager.
> |Or was Scully working under you and you were closer to the band
> |then Scully? That's funny I've never seen any pictures of the Dead with
> |anyone with your name. Have you changed your name? When's your book
> |coming out?
>
> uh, yeah, i'm the one with the deviated septum..... seriously, we've gone
> round & round on the scully book several times in the newsgroup. if you
> want to accept every word in his book as gospel truth, then mazel tov.
> please don't be surprised when you find
> people aren't taking you too seriously.
Heck they all have deviated septums don't they? But seriously, I don't
accept every word as gospel truth. I don't think it's any mystery what
the situation was with Scully and the band. As he acknowledges in the
book, I believe most of the band did blame him for Jerry's drug use and
his relationship with many in the band probably ended in '85 when he
stopped working for the band. His biases are quite obvious and some of
his feelings and bitterness toward certain band members comes out in the
book very clearly. As a reader of the book and fan of the band with some
background info on the band and Scully, you don't take all his judgements
of the bandmembers "as gospel truth", but at the same time, you don't
dismiss everything he says as complete lies. You take into consideration
his biases (and the poor job the editor did with the misspelling) and go
from there in judging the book.
As for what started this in the first place (Lowell George's possible
heroin use or addiction), you and Mitch can believe what you want about
him. I really don't care if he was or was not a heroin addict or user. I
have no strong feelings towards Lowell George as I never got into Little
Feat. I was responding to the thread about Jerry and Lowell and had just
read the Rolling Stone issue in which IMO the author had stated he (LG)
was a heroin user. Rolling Stone might be right or wrong or maybe the
author didn't intend to mean he used heroin. People magazine may have been
wrong about his morphine addiction. The song "China White" LG wrote and
performed may not have been about his own heroin use but maybe it was
about someone else's usage. If you don't want to believe LG used or
abused heroin, then that's fine with me. I don't know the real truth (nor
do you I suspect). I have an opinion based on what I read and where I read
it but it is only an opinion.
Since I've written more on this stupid thread than one *ever* should, I
have nothing more to say on it that I haven't already said (repeatedly).
Bill