"Deadhead Riot" at Deer Creek
Craig Hillwig
(PaulGerald) wrote:
> It sickens my soul to be relaying this info, but this comes
> straight off the Associated Press wire:
>
> "Thousands Riot, Throw Bottles, Rocks, Outside Grateful
> Dead Concert"
> NOBLESVILLE, Ind. (AP) - Several thousand people rioted
> Sunday night outside a Grateful Dead concert, throwing
> rocks and bottles and damaging some police cars before
> officers used tear gas to disperse the crowd.
Don't tell me -- it's the fault of those unruly local farm kids.
Unbelievable. How many of you are out there saying, "I told you so"?
--
Craig Hillwig
ch...@voicenet.com
PaulGerald
straight off the Associated Press wire:
"Thousands Riot, Throw Bottles, Rocks, Outside Grateful
Dead Concert"
NOBLESVILLE, Ind. (AP) - Several thousand people rioted
Sunday night outside a Grateful Dead concert, throwing
rocks and bottles and damaging some police cars before
officers used tear gas to disperse the crowd.
Four police officers were hurt, although the extent of
their injuries was not immediately available, said Cpl.
Clint Bundy of the Indiana State Police.
He said the riot began in the parking lot of the outdoor
arena, about 15 miles from Indianapolis, when 3,000 to
4,000 people rushed the security wall behind the stage
and tore it down, prompting officers to call for help.
"It started as a large group, and then it just grew and
it got unruly," Bundy said.
Two hundred officers from the Indiana State Police,
Hamilton County Sherrif's Department and the Fishers
and Noblesville Police Departments responded to the riot.
Arrests were made but figures were not immediately
available.
"We object to this sort of behavior," said Grateful Dead
spokesman Dennis McNally. "It's characteristic of some
youth. Unfortunately, when you have a public event, you
can't dictate ecessarily who's going to show up."
(transmitted around 12:30 a.m. EST Monday, 7-3-95)
You know, it's bullshit like this that's gonna choke the
life out of this wonderful scene.
David R. Smith
Of course the police and G Dead promoters could have just
let those people in for free to watch the concert.
I remember back in the 60s when there were large concerts
like this, if there were enough people who did not have
tickets and were really wistfully desirous of attendance,
they would just be let through the gates.
Thus in a way it is not just the police but the money/business
aspect of the concert as well.
david smith
Steallight
as easily. With the political climate in this country turning back to the
"Love it or Leave it" days and "Don't blow your non-christian nose on my
flag " mentality being waved around again to distract the voters from how
badly they are being screwed by business and the republican party, it is
going to be increasingly harder to find venues to allow shows.
Is it time to dig up Richard Nixon and re-equip Spiro Agnew with new
rhetoric? Can we dust off Ronnie Raygun, dye his hair once more, and let
him sell another part of the country to pay off campaign debts.
Wake up America. The christian fanatics and the neo-nazi's have crawled
into bed with the forces of laissez-faire business and we are the victims
The previous tirade was sponsored by two churches of unspecified
denomination, three breweries, and two tobacco companies. Next update
brought to you by General Motors and the Industrial Military Complex
stay out of riots and leave the show if you don't have tix
happily dancing in the Phil Zone
Chris Little
I'm not sure the G Dead promoters are to blame for this. The band has
to charge money to pay for expenses and that's how they make their
living. If the band were to make a practice of letting people in for
free each time someone showed up without tickets then many more people
would show up without tickets. There are also fire codes and safety
regulations to the number of people to try to keep the crowd as safe as
possible.
I have been to Deer Creek many times and used to live about 10 miles
from the site. It is one of the best places around to see a show.
Most of the people there should have known the community had already
"had it" with the Deadheads. Now those same people paying property
taxes in that community, whose kids work there and may have attended
the shows, are concerned for their well-being and don't want their kids
hit by bottles and rocks. Yes I'm afraid a few (thousand) bad apples
have probably ruined an excellent venue for us all.
Deadheads, like everyone else, have to live within the rules of a
civilized society now no one will see the Dead at Deer Creek next year.
How many sites are now on the list?
Peace,
Chris
Greg Creedon
ch...@voicenet.com (Craig Hillwig) wrote:
> Don't tell me -- it's the fault of those unruly local farm kids.
> Unbelievable. How many of you are out there saying, "I told you so"?
The local farm kids who caused trouble in Vt <smirk>.
Scene's over. Time to move on. Has anyone heard the Neil Young/Pearl Jam
disk? It rocks; it's new. The poor ole Dead have turned into a nostalgia
cover band which made $31 million last year. Some counterculture.
Michael Coleman
Hope not to see it happen again. I'll be there tonight... miracle in
hand.
Peace
Sean E. Kutzko
In a previous article, paulg...@aol.com (PaulGerald) says:
> NOBLESVILLE, Ind. (AP) - Several thousand people rioted
>Sunday night outside a Grateful Dead concert, throwing
>rocks and bottles and damaging some police cars before
>officers used tear gas to disperse the crowd.
> Four police officers were hurt, although the extent of
>their injuries was not immediately available, said Cpl.
>Clint Bundy of the Indiana State Police.
> He said the riot began in the parking lot of the outdoor
>arena, about 15 miles from Indianapolis, when 3,000 to
>4,000 people rushed the security wall behind the stage
>and tore it down, prompting officers to call for help.
I think it is fair to assume that we have just lost the Creek, too.
Since the scene has deteriorated to the point where ticketless hoards are
unable to think past the evening of the show, and have to get in at any
cost, I'm glad I left the scene when I did.
I, for one , AM telling you, "I told ya so." I saw this coming two YEARS
ago.
I think itis high time the Dead just STOPPED TOURING until a way can be
found to alleviate this problem.
Sean
--
Sean Kutzko Amateur Radio: KF9PL
Urbana, IL DXCC:303 worked/297 cfmd
"I did my time in your rodeo...
Fool that I am, I'd do it all over again." -Little Feat
SAINTCROIX
crashing the gatee:
>Of course the police and G Dead promoters could have just
>let those people in for free to watch the concert.
>I remember back in the 60s when there were large concerts
>like this, if there were enough people who did not have
>tickets and were really wistfully desirous of attendance,
>they would just be let through the gates.
>Thus in a way it is not just the police but the money/business
>aspect of the concert as well.
Oh boy, this is brilliant reasoning David. Why not have everybody show up
without a ticket--what the fuck, who needs to pay the band, lights, venue,
etc. We all work for free and live for free, don't we David? Yes, it's the
venue's and the police's fault that all those poor little children
couldn't get into the show for free while 15-20,000 others paid for their
tickets. Yes, it's the police who made them crash the gates. I suppose
you're one of these jerkies who wants to sue their parents for not
bringing them up right because you tuerned out to be such a loser, or sue
their university because they didn't get a job with their degree. Yes,
it's ALWAYS someone else's fault isn't it David? Face it David--people
like you are fucking lowlife losers and always will be. You think life is
a free ride and someone else will always be willing to pay your way. I've
got news for you, you little asshole. It's this attitude that will shut
this band down forever--and even fuckwits like you without tickets won't
have a gate to crash. It's this attitude that has bounced the Dead out of
virtually every other desirable venue on the planet.You're one of the
reasons I--and thousands of other Deadheads--quit going to shows. Get a
clue, shit-for-brains, before you ruin it for those who are still willing
to put up with all the tour scum to see a show.
Bemand
have a clue....but we have got to figure out what to do about it.
Was anyone at Deer Creek to witness this riot? Were they wearing tie-dies
or were they wearing Nirvana t-shirts? Were they old, were they young?
Were they on something?
Seriously I have heard more stories about unruly crowds from this tour
than from past ones. I would go so far as to say that this tour has had
more problems than last year altogether (although Boston '94 was pretty
bad.) We won't have anyplace to go if people keep this behavior up.
I'll stop rambling now.
Take care,
Deane
"Sometimes we live no particular way but our own!"
Dan OConnell
>From: saint...@aol.com (SAINTCROIX)
>Subject: Re: "Deadhead Riot" at Deer Creek
>Date: 3 Jul 1995 10:28:21 -0400
>david smith writes in response to the deer creek mircale ticket maggots
>crashing the gatee:
>>Of course the police and G Dead promoters could have just
>>let those people in for free to watch the concert.
>>I remember back in the 60s when there were large concerts
>>like this, if there were enough people who did not have
>>tickets and were really wistfully desirous of attendance,
>>they would just be let through the gates.
>>Thus in a way it is not just the police but the money/business
>>aspect of the concert as well.
>Oh boy, this is brilliant reasoning David. Why not have everybody show up
>without a ticket--what the fuck, who needs to pay the band, lights, venue,
>etc. We all work for free and live for free, don't we David?
>>>>> Deleated a scorching flame..............
This, of course, does no good either. Flaming one guy on the net is one thing,
but there are thousands of folks out there who apparently hold this view, who
probably don't have net access.
Does anyone know any of the folks at Relix, or duprees diamond news?
Perhaps it's time for a MAJOR article about the problems that these people are
causing. Maybe some of these folks would actually SEE that. Maybe a message
from the band, I mean a band member, on the hotline explaining the situation.
People would hear that Phil ( or whoever) was on the line, and want to call up
and hear it. A plea on the new album (whenever that happens) saying the same
type of thing? Perhaps a combination of these, and other things might get the
idea acroos to people that this type of behavior is not simply not cool, but
threatens the entire scene for everybody......
Just thinking out loud this morning............
Peace
Dan
Sean E. Kutzko
> Does anyone know any of the folks at Relix, or duprees diamond news?
>Perhaps it's time for a MAJOR article about the problems that these people are
>causing. Maybe some of these folks would actually SEE that. Maybe a message
>from the band, I mean a band member, on the hotline explaining the situation.
A good and reasonable idea, but it hasn't worked so far.
What I'm wondering is: Why doesn't the band ever say anything about this
AT or DURING the show? Some sort of announcement just before the encore
or something... "To all those folks who got in without a ticket tonight,
please don't do this again, because you're hurting us!" or something along
those lines. If you desire to extrapolate this far enough, the
Gate-crashers are hurting the Dead employee's living. If they won't be
allowd to play any venues soon, they won't be bringing in the majority of
their income, and will have no need for support staff.
I, for one, support the idea of mandatory ticket checking at the gate. No
ticket, no entrance to the lot. PERIOD. These are drastic times, and call
for drastic measures.
Another early-morning ramble...
Sean (in self-imposed exile from Dead shows since 1993)
The Bike
fence. The jumpers were all ages and types. Mostly heads. The only
thing you needed to jump that back fence was to beable to run up the
incredibly steep up-grade. I don't know how 'they' did it.
The people who jummped the fence, I would not call 'local farm kids'.
At first I thought it was great, but when 'they' started ripping the
boards out of the wood fence, and tearing apart the chain link fence, then
I felt it was going too far. Deer Creek is the only venue that I've seen
the Dead, and it's the only one I have time to get away for. I would hate
to see it go because a buch of %$$^&*&*&^$$ can't keep their pants on.
(sorry, I got a little upset for a second) It was defenetly a sight to
see arms, legs, and butts being tossed over the 7-8 foot fence.
OH!!! The OTHER thing that got my goat was that Deer Creek left the
house lights on for the duration of the show!!!! (I'm sure because of the
fence jummpers) We were SO ticked. But we still enjoyed the show and
shared our space with some 'jummpers'. It was a mix of getting pissed off
and not letting ANYTHING bug you. I only hope Deer Creek will turn off
the house lights tonight and let us enjoy the light show.
AND during space, a helicopter flew around the venue with search
lights. Before it left, it turned off it's search light, and buzzed the
back part of the venue, The Dead 'answered' back with their own
helicopter sound that shook the whole country side!!! It was the
COOLEST!!!
The only people to blame in the "riot" is Deer Creek itself. Every
year there is threat of fence jummping. If Deer Creek had the security
tighter at that back area, then noone would have made it up that hill. If
you ask me, It's their way of insuring The Dead of not being able to play
there in the future. (Assholes) (sorry, again).
The crowd at Deer Creek before the show was crazy (not unruly, just
alot of poeple).
I hope tonight is full of just as much adventure, but not the 'bad'
kind.
Peace- Jen, the Hen
Jay Strauss
>
>Does anyone have any idea why this bullsh*t is happening? I really
don't
>have a clue....but we have got to figure out what to do about it.
>
>Was anyone at Deer Creek to witness this riot? Were they wearing
tie-dies
>or were they wearing Nirvana t-shirts? Were they old, were they
young?
They were a bunch of real old guys wearing Jerry Lee Lewis t-shirts,
and I'm pretty sure they were all whacked out on extra strength
maalox.
Jay Strauss
Kutzko) writes:
>
>I, for one, support the idea of mandatory ticket checking at the gate.
No
>ticket, no entrance to the lot.
<snip, snip>
they were doing this at Red Rocks as early as '79.
You drove/walked in to a one /two lane driveway, and there were
ticket checkers as you pulled in...then you headed up the drive into
one of the 2(?) parking lots, and theoretically, everyone in the lots
had tickets.
People still climbed around the back/sides of the rocks, but
not to get in, but to listen from up there.
Of course we lost RR years ago...
Summertime, come and gone, my oh my.
Greg Fellman
> The only people to blame in the "riot" is Deer Creek itself. Every
>year there is threat of fence jummping. If Deer Creek had the security
>tighter at that back area, then noone would have made it up that hill.
I would have to object to that statement. Yes, maybe Deer Creek should
have had more security but also to blame are the people who jumped the
fence, threw rocks, damaged police cars, injured officers, and most
basically disrespected the Grateful Dead by coming to the show
ticketless. If you like and respect the Grateful Dead, please respect
their wishes and do not go to a show ticketless. You are only hurting
them, us and yourselves.
I would like to hear from one of the people that actually jumped the
fence and their own thoughts on their own ignorant actions. What the
hell were you thinking?
Just had to add my own $.02.
Joseph.Ledva
>found to alleviate this problem.
I also think the Dead should stop touring for a while, at least East of the
Rockies, until those ASSHOLE gate-crashers get their friggin shit together.
Joe Ledva
j.l...@att.com
Jurgen Fauth
> The only people to blame in the "riot" is Deer Creek itself. Every
>year there is threat of fence jummping. If Deer Creek had the security
>tighter at that back area, then noone would have made it up that hill. If
>you ask me, It's their way of insuring The Dead of not being able to play
>there in the future. (Assholes) (sorry, again).
> The crowd at Deer Creek before the show was crazy (not unruly, just
>alot of poeple).
> Peace- Jen, the Hen
Let me see if I got that right: Because of slack security, it's the venue's fault
that thousands of idiots rioted.
That's good. That's really good. That's like saying the woman deserved to be raped
because she didn't protect herself well enough, didn't carry enough teargas and no
handgun. It's her way of insuring ... what?
Think again.
Jurgen.
--
!@#$%^&*~!!@#$%^&*()<?"{(8%@&*&!%#
* Start Brain Spew *
!@#$%^&*~!!@#$%^&*()<?"{(8%@&*&!%#
Micheal Miller
David R. Smith <af...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> wrote:
>
>Of course the police and G Dead promoters could have just
>let those people in for free to watch the concert.
>david smith
No WAY! I work my ass off to afford to travel to the shows and it isn't
right to put alot of paying fans in danger of overcrowding just because
some broke and stoned fucking assholes want what they can't pay for. I
don't have a new car, may be if enough people join me, the cops will just
let me walk onto a lot and take one. Bullshit. I hope I never meet some
one who admits to being a part of that scene. Violence has a way of
coming full circle. God Damn-it! We went to auburn hills last summer and
no-one with out a ticket was allowed into the parking lot. It was the
best scene I have experienced in the last few years.
What the cops should have done with their road blocks was to check for
tickets and send every one else away. This is fucked and another venue
may go down because of selfish dick-heads. It's time to cull the herd.
Dan OConnell
>> The only people to blame in the "riot" is Deer Creek itself. Every
>>year there is threat of fence jummping. If Deer Creek had the security
>>tighter at that back area, then noone would have made it up that hill. If
>>you ask me, It's their way of insuring The Dead of not being able to play
>>there in the future. Peace- Jen, the Hen
What's this? A conspiracy heory??!! Calling Oliver Stone, Calling Oliver
stone.............
Dan
Jay Strauss
Is this the summer of hate?
Andrew C Robertson
CANCELLED.
They said there were "numerous" injuries in last night's incident, and 36
were arrested.
A spokesperson for the band said they are "frustrated" that the show had
to be cancelled, according to CNN.
Maybe some of these sick individuals will learn something from all this.
Don't look now...consequences!!
drewbob
Dins
jumpers fault is blind and wrong. The Ax has fallen and as of 1 PM this
afternoon I heard that Tonite's show has been cancelled. Fence jumping,
littering and other destructive acts of vandalism are not acceptable
behavior and should not be tolerated. Fewer and fewer venues are willing
to allow the Dead to come to town. People cheer when they see fence
jumpers or anyone beating security in anyway. When security cracks down
and start busting heads, there is always someone "who was just in the
wrong place minding their own business when the fascist pigs came up and
started brutally violating my constitutional rights". It is going to get
progressively worse until people learn that actions have consequences.
The result here is No More Shows At DEER CREEK, No More Shows at HIGHGATE.
What is the next venue?
If you want to do something, try this:
1) When you are at a show, tell the "Need a miracle" Loser Dead heads to
go home.
2) Tell anyone you see commiting vandalism to stop and if need be, turn
them in.
3) Take all your trash home with you. If you bring it, you should be able
to keep it.
4) Respect local people's rights-keep off their property, don't steal
their furniture or destroy their land.
5) Be polite and courteous to all locals, cops and security.
The Grateful Dead are not an excuse to disobey the laws of society, just
because you didn't get a ticket. The "Scene" is not there for you to show
up just because they are passing by. I am sick of seeing this disgusting
display again, again and again. The Dead, at Giants, warn people not to
jump on the field does that stop them? No. Why not? Because these people
are selfish idiots who feel that they DESERVE to go where they want
because its a Dead show. Wrong! Its time to start learning some
responsibility.
The Bike
>year there is threat of fence jummping. If Deer Creek had the security
>tighter at that back area, then noone would have made it up that hill.
I would have to object to that statement. Yes, maybe Deer Creek should
have had more security but also to blame are the people who jumped the
fence, threw rocks, damaged police cars, injured officers, and most
basically disrespected the Grateful Dead by coming to the show
ticketless. If you like and respect the Grateful Dead, please respect
their wishes and do not go to a show ticketless. You are only hurting
them, us and yourselves.
I would like to hear from one of the people that actually jumped the
fence and their own thoughts on their own ignorant actions. What the
hell were you thinking?
Dear Greg,
I agree with you compleatly! It takes two to tango!! -Jen
The Bike
I have thought again, and you are correct. I was so mad about
everyting this morning that I wasn't thinking right. Thanks for helping
my brain!
Peace- Jen
Seth Jackson
: Of course the police and G Dead promoters could have just
: let those people in for free to watch the concert.
Oh, this is brilliant reasoning! Let's reward people for showing up
without tickets! What do you suppose will happen if we start doing that?
Gee, let me think...um, er, ah,...oh darn, maybe I ought to go back and
review my Psych 101 textbook, and maybe go back to Econ 101 while I'm at
it.
--
Seth Jackson
Seth Jackson
: david smith writes in response to the deer creek mircale ticket maggots
: crashing the gatee:
: >Of course the police and G Dead promoters could have just
: >let those people in for free to watch the concert.
: Oh boy, this is brilliant reasoning David. Why not have everybody show up
<snip>
: it's ALWAYS someone else's fault isn't it David? Face it David--people
: like you are fucking lowlife losers and always will be. You think life is
: a free ride and someone else will always be willing to pay your way. I've
: got news for you, you little asshole. It's this attitude that will shut
: this band down forever--and even fuckwits like you without tickets won't
: have a gate to crash. It's this attitude that has bounced the Dead out of
: virtually every other desirable venue on the planet.You're one of the
: reasons I--and thousands of other Deadheads--quit going to shows. Get a
: clue, shit-for-brains, before you ruin it for those who are still willing
: to put up with all the tour scum to see a show.
Oh, and this is a big help. Not.
David expresses a misguided viewpoint, and here you go making all sorts
of assumptions about his character, and go off on a tirade of insults.
Maybe he just said a dumb thing. In that case, the only judgment I can
make about him is that he said a dumb thing.
Have you never said a dumb thing? After reading the above, I guess this
question has already been answered.
--
Seth Jackson
PaulGerald
>ticket, no entrance to the lot. PERIOD. These are drastic times, and call
>for drastic measures.
Amen. Who says a concert WITHOUT a parking lot scene is no fun, anyway?
For my money, it is ALL about the music, although the lot can be fun and
useful as well. But folks without tickets are the problem. First they
brought too many drugs to the lot, now they're crashing gates and throwing
shit at cops. I wish we could make them go away, but I don't think we
really can.
Jeff Kahn
-> let those people in for free to watch the concert.
-> I remember back in the 60s when there were large concerts
-> like this, if there were enough people who did not have
-> tickets and were really wistfully desirous of attendance,
-> they would just be let through the gates.
-> Thus in a way it is not just the police but the money/business
-> aspect of the concert as well.
To do so would be to encourage the ticketless to show up. A situation
that is endangering the scene. Its not just a "money/business" concern,
but a logistical one. The numbers are larger now (in people and money).
I actually don't think a bunch of bottle throwing punks should get
rewarded with a "free" concert. Perhaps its just me, but I have sensed
an increasing aggressive attitude forming in a portion of the crowds,
and it saddens me. The other troubling trend (perhaps not unrelated) is
to think of the shows in terms of money. "Are the Dead in it for the
money?" or "I payed $30 bucks so Jerry should remember the lyrics" or in
this case folks should be let in for free. The reality is there is a
lot of money at stake. The Dead have a large organization that a lot of
folks depend on. I am sure there is an element of needing to keep a
multi-million dollar corporation going, but this is not necessarily a
contradiction to doing something you love. The fact that I have
responsibilities that keep my working does not mean that I am not
sincere and enjoy my work. Nor do I have to work for free because
someone thinks its uncool for me to charge for my service. Those that
see a contradiction probably have more of a problem with money and
identity than those they criticize.
Peace,
jeff
PaulGerald
> The only people to blame in the "riot" is Deer Creek itself.
AAAAAAARRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! Somebody please flame
the life from this person. I'm too worked up to do it right now.
Douglas Pugh
> We were sitting on the upper lawn when people started jumping the
>fence. The jumpers were all ages and types. Mostly heads. The only
[snip]
> The only people to blame in the "riot" is Deer Creek itself. Every
>year there is threat of fence jummping. If Deer Creek had the security
>tighter at that back area, then noone would have made it up that hill. If
>you ask me, It's their way of insuring The Dead of not being able to play
>there in the future. (Assholes) (sorry, again).
Oh good God. You really believe that? That we (Deadheads, the good, bad, and
ugly) aren't responsible for any of our own actions? Perhaps Deer Creek should
have had 15 foot high concrete barriers and swat teams to keep out the
Heads. Because everyone knows DeadHeads can't control themselves, right? We
have to have our hands held and be kept in our place. Sheeze.
The people to blame were those that rioted. Pure and simple. Perhaps this is
the wake up call the band and the fans have needed. Hell, its been occuring
more frequently every tour. Maybe its time for a break.
Doug Pugh
hes...@mailhost.tcs.tulane.edu
William Evans Bailey
I suspect $35 tickets have something to do with this. Lower the
price, and the kids might be able to afford getting in the legit
way. (Old affluent types probably don't jump fences too often.)
Bill
sca...@ibm.net
tragedy. Lots of people said they saw it coming, well now it's too late.
Last year was my first time at Deer Creek and I had one of the best times ever.
Looks like it was my last time, since I was shut out in the mail order. If you don't
have tix.....
I hope that someone within the Dead organization really does read the postings
here, and takes some of the advice offered. Check for tickets BEFORE the parking lot
keep these gate crashers out.
There's no point in lambasting the miracle ticket maggots any further, since the
first assumption would be that they can *read*.
Let's hope for a different kind of miracle...
Steve
Timothy Eckert
>From: w...@leland.Stanford.EDU (William Evans Bailey)
>Subject: Re: "Deadhead Riot" at Deer Creek
>Hi--
>Bill
There were more people than tickets, more people than tickets, say it together
now, more people than tickets....price did not matter in this situation.
Besides that, I just read a post from someone had did have a ticket, and still
didn't get in....
PLH,
Tim
Lisa Lockwood
park. Finally, the official parking people told her that the lot was
full and she should just park by the side of the road. She walked all
the way to the entrance (a good half mile or so) just to see some guy's
leg getting chewed by a police dog (the rioting had already started and
she decided it was a bad scene), so she turned around to walk back to
her car just in time to see it getting towed away. She had to walk five
miles to a phone to get someone to pick her up. The towing charges were
$110, the tickets that she never used cost $78. Boy, was she pissed off.
Last night was just bad news all around.
I also heard (rumor, so take it as such) that the backlog of cars was
caused by random drug searches of the cars entering. Everyone had to
wait while dogs sniffed the car and passengers emptied their fanny
packs. Then once you got it they charged $10 to park. I have a problem
with that because Deer Creek is in BFE, so there is absolutely nowhere
else to park within a five mile radius. They have you by the balls
parking-wise.
Anybody have any idea what set the gate-crashers off? Or did one stupid
head say Hey dudes, let's rush the fence, and thousands followed?
Lisa
KLeach1118
In <3t9598$j...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
the...@aol.com (The Bike) wrote:
> We were sitting on the upper lawn when people started jumping the
>fence. The jumpers were all ages and types. Mostly heads. The only
>thing you needed to jump that back fence was to beable to run up the
>incredibly steep up-grade. I don't know how 'they' did it.
> The people who jummped the fence, I would not call 'local farm kids'.
> At first I thought it was great, but when 'they' started ripping the
boards out of the wood fence, and tearing apart the chain link fence, then
I felt it was going too far.
Why was this great? This is why we are losing venues!! Because of
assholes that jump (or break through) the fence, and assholes (like you)
that think it is *great*
> The only people to blame in the "riot" is Deer Creek itself. Every
>year there is threat of fence jummping. If Deer Creek had the security
>tighter at that back area, then noone would have made it up that hill.
No, the only people to blame are the people who jumped the fence
>If you ask me, It's their way of insuring The Dead of not being able to
play
>there in the future. (Assholes) (sorry, again).
Yeah, right, I am sure that the management at Deer Creek doesn't want the
money that comes with two sold out shows. Sure. If they didn't want the
Dead to play there again, all they would have to do is not invite them
back. Get a clue.
bob
Smith) writes:
>
>
>Of course the police and G Dead promoters could have just
Sure, just let everybody in. In the future they can sell enough
tickets to fill the place to capacity and then let everyone else in for
free. That would be great, 100,000 people in an arena that holds
50,000. That's my idea of a good time.
Why is it everytime there is trouble SOME people always blame it on the
police and money hungry people? Our society would be better off if
people would take responsibility for their own actions and not blame
others.
O.K., I'm getting off my soap box.
Take care,
Ken
bob
writes:
>
>It is time to restructure the tour to prevent the mob from making the
trip
>as easily. With the political climate in this country turning back to
the
>"Love it or Leave it" days and "Don't blow your non-christian nose on
my
>flag " mentality being waved around again to distract the voters from
how
>badly they are being screwed by business and the republican party, it
is
>going to be increasingly harder to find venues to allow shows.
> Is it time to dig up Richard Nixon and re-equip Spiro Agnew with new
>rhetoric? Can we dust off Ronnie Raygun, dye his hair once more, and
let
>him sell another part of the country to pay off campaign debts.
> Wake up America. The christian fanatics and the neo-nazi's have
crawled
>into bed with the forces of laissez-faire business and we are the
victims
>
Once again, quit blaming others for the problems that a few have
created. If the Dead get banned from a venue it's going to be because
of the actions of a group of inconsiderate people. To sit there and
blame Republicans, christian fanatics, and business is totally absurd.
With this mentality you were probably the first over the fence.
Ken
The Voopaman
> Scene's over. Time to move on. Has anyone heard the Neil Young/Pearl Jam
> disk? It rocks; it's new. The poor ole Dead have turned into a nostalgia
^^^^^^^^^^^
> cover band which made $31 million last year. Some counterculture.
^^^^^^^^^^
?????????????????????????????????
* * *
"I hate having two heads!"-H.J.Simpson
* * *
john w. florek, stockton, ca. all opinions are the property of voopa.
* * *
Joseph Stacey
>let those people in for free to watch the concert.
>I remember back in the 60s when there were large concerts
>like this, if there were enough people who did not have
>tickets and were really wistfully desirous of attendance,
>they would just be let through the gates.
>Thus in a way it is not just the police but the money/business
>aspect of the concert as well.
>david smith
So we're supposed to believe that if someone doesn't have the money to
get in but really wants to go, they should get in free?
I believe it is this sort of thinking that caused the problem in the
first place.
Peace,
Joe S.
Gldancer
maybe, possibly, the tourrats without tickets wouldn't have time to get
there?
Lowering the price of the tix won't make any difference - the shows are
usually sold out anyway!
I do find it interesting that this happened in the summer tour (i.e.,
after most people are out of school). Does this tell us something? Too
many people with too little to do except travel around to shows begging
for tix and money, then in the fall, off they go to school again with lots
of parents' money! Hmmm.....
I do find it awfully amusing when someone is begging for tix or money and
wearing Birkenstocks!
Gloria "Only the iguana knows for sure"
Peter D Fetzek
available? My daughter and her friends were there and I'm just curious
if she's in jail. I'm serious. Somebody would be doing a lot of people a
big favor if they did this.
Thanks,
Pete
R.I.P., Wolfman
Greg Creedon
Voopaman <jfl...@cs.uop.edu> wrote:
> On Mon, 3 Jul 1995, Greg Creedon wrote:
>
> > Scene's over. Time to move on. Has anyone heard the Neil Young/Pearl Jam
> > disk? It rocks; it's new. The poor ole Dead have turned into a nostalgia
> ^^^^^^^^^^^
> > cover band which made $31 million last year. Some counterculture.
> ^^^^^^^^^^
My point is/was the notion that the Dead are now a band which performs
covers of old hits. With only a few, if any, new songs a year, the band
stopped breaking ground a long time. Everyone predicts what the opening
song will be and usually can guess it right. Even the allegedly improvised
stuff is way structured, with the band members using click tracks to stay
in line.
I've been with this band a long, long time. I enjoy when I can share the
pleasure I had when I first heard the "ripple" album (anyone know where I
can get a copy?!) and Live/Dead album that Christmas, 1970. But we are
hearing the same songs, played basically the same way. Where is the spirit
of invention? That's what I enjoy about Neil Young. He has roots in the
past, but he isn't mired in it.
What's left of the Dead? A Forbes 500 company, I expect.
"There's a place downtown, where the hippies all go
and they dance the Charleston and do the limbo yeah
The hippies all go there 'cause they want to be seen
It's like a room full of pictures
It's like a pyschedelic dream" -- Neil Young
--
"Evra sorrow has its twin joy; the fun | Greg Creedon
of skraching almost pays for having | gcre...@j51.com
the ich." - Josh Billings, 1869 or so
JeffC21745
erupted in the crowd. A bunch of gate crashing assholes started jumping
the fence and tearing it down. What the hell is the matter with these
fuckin' low life scum. A few people wrecked a good venue. SO LONG DEER
CREEK - THANKS TICKETLESS BASTERDS!!
I've been going to shows for years now, and never witnessed such a
display. If I don't have a ticket I don't go... It's amazing how people
complain about the price of the tickets. We all know when the Dead are
going to tour save your cash or don't go. And if you didn't get a ticket
from mail order, that's just the luck of the draw.
I don't have any sympathy for those who got gassed - They shouldn't have
been there in the first place without a ticket. What do people expect
when they throw rocks and bottles at cops and destroy property - respect?
The names of all those who were busted should be given to the band, and
these folks should be peremently banned from shows.
So what am I doing with my ticket for tonights show? Sittin' at home.
This should not happen again - Get it together.
pelo...@acf6.acf.nyu.edu
>
> Of course the police and G Dead promoters could have just
> let those people in for free to watch the concert.
> I remember back in the 60s when there were large concerts
> like this, if there were enough people who did not have
> tickets and were really wistfully desirous of attendance,
> they would just be let through the gates.
As much as I would love to get into a Dead show free,
the idea of letting everyone in is not an option.
First, there are fire laws. Even outdoor venues have fences
and gates. There is a limit on the speed with which the
area can be cleared in the event of an emergency. ANd have
you ever been in an overcrowded venue? It's not that much
fun when you can't move around at all (and I don't mean they
way you couldn't move on the field at RFK, but could move in
the stands. I mean every place in the venue is jam packed.)
Second, the policy right now is that you should not
vend in the lot or come without a ticket. And with that
policy, 4,000 extra people rush the gate (I imagine there were
more than 4,00 extra people there tho). Now imagine
the scene if everyone knows that everyone who shows up
can get in free. There were more people than tickets at
RFK and Giants. If the crowd can overflow a stadium,
imagine what it would do to an amphitheatre!
David Pelovitz - PELO...@Acfcluster.nyu.edu
"'Do me a favor?' Oedipa said. 'Don't shoot at the cops,
they're on your side.'" - Thomas Pynchon
Andrew Kanter
>I do find it interesting that this happened in the summer tour (i.e.,
>after most people are out of school). Does this tell us something? Too
>many people with too little to do except travel around to shows begging
>for tix and money, then in the fall, off they go to school again with lots
>of parents' money! Hmmm.....
Nope...invalid assumption. Seen riots at Brendan Byrne in NJ in the fall
of 1985 (blood all over the wall and strechers as people threw bottles
and the turnstiles themselves trying to get in) and in Pittsburgh in the
Spring of 1990 (89?). Don't get on a rich-boy soapbox. It doesn't suit you.
Andy
LA, CA
Connie Szeflinski
In article <doo100.66...@psu.edu> doo...@psu.edu writes:
>
> Does anyone know any of the folks at Relix, or duprees diamond news?
> Perhaps it's time for a MAJOR article about the problems that these people are > causing. Maybe some of these folks would actually SEE that. Maybe a message
> from the band, I mean a band member, on the hotline explaining the situation.
> People would hear that Phil ( or whoever) was on the line, and want to call up > and hear it. A plea on the new album (whenever that happens) saying the same
> type of thing? Perhaps a combination of these, and other things might get the
> idea acroos to people that this type of behavior is not simply not cool, but
> threatens the entire scene for everybody......
>
These are all excellent ideas... i just hope one of the publishers
and/or band members sees this post and picks up on it. Every deadhead
everywhere should begin each day with the little mantra "i will not go
to a show without a ticket, i will not go to a show without a ticket,
i will not...."
It saddens me more than i can say to hear of deadheads behaving like a
pack of wild animals. And please please please do not try to pass this
off on "locals". It seems to me that if it is locals, they have been
at almost every venue lately, and if the "locals" are the same
everywhere, then we need to find a way to deal with them, 'cause these
problems are not solving themselves... infact, they seem to be getting
worse.
I'm so sorry for the folks who had their hearts set on a show
tonight... seems that it wasn't meant to be.
take care,
connie
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Connie Szeflinski Boulder, CO & Santa Cruz, CA USA con...@cozmic.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
SaurianX
Perhaps it's time for a MAJOR article about the problems that these people
are causing. Maybe some of these folks would actually SEE that. Maybe a
message from the band, I mean a band member, on the hotline explaining the
situation. People would hear that Phil ( or whoever) was on the line, and
want to call up and hear it. A plea on the new album (whenever that
happens) saying the same type of thing? Perhaps a combination of these,
behavior is not simply not cool, but threatens the entire scene for
everybody...<
Finally, after sufficient bitching/moaning/flailing about n' well-
intentioned flappin' of gums, somepractical suggestions/experiments for
real life! Let's do it n' see what happens. BTW- John Dwork is probably
the guy you want to talk to, write to at DDN. Aslo, JP Barlow is somewhere
'round these cyberparts. Can anyone get a message to our friend in high
places?
Jest a thought,
Anton
>You can't close the door once the walls caved in... R. Hunter<
pelo...@acf6.acf.nyu.edu
>
> Amen. Who says a concert WITHOUT a parking lot scene is no fun, anyway?
It could only be someone who has never been to one of the best
venues out there - madison Squaare Garden.
No lot. No vending. No chance of storming any gates.
An excellent scene and many excellent shows have happend there.
David Pelovitz - PELV...@Acfcluster.nyu.edu
"Profane felt that at last he'd come to dead center in Nueva York."
Thomas Pynchon
pelo...@acf6.acf.nyu.edu
Dirk Star Deegan
: as easily. With the political climate in this country turning back to the
: flag " mentality being waved around again to distract the voters from how
: badly they are being screwed by business and the republican party, it is
: going to be increasingly harder to find venues to allow shows.
: Is it time to dig up Richard Nixon and re-equip Spiro Agnew with new
: rhetoric? Can we dust off Ronnie Raygun, dye his hair once more, and let
: him sell another part of the country to pay off campaign debts.
: Wake up America. The christian fanatics and the neo-nazi's have crawled
: into bed with the forces of laissez-faire business and we are the victims
I guess you are referring to the Neo-Nazi's who TRIED to keep peace (their
job) at this show. You should be thankful that these people were professional
enough to have not severely injured any of the selfish, stupid, childish
assholes who tried to get in for free after no one "kicked one down" for
'em. I don't see what your post has to do at all with those fuckheads
(and i don't mean skullfuck heads).
irritated by the problems on this tour,
dirk
--
"...Sure and they destroyed some cells, no doubt about it, but 'twas for the
good. If you want your tree to produce plenty o' fruit, you've got to cut
it back from time to time. Same thing with your nueral cells. Some
people might call it brain damage. I call it prunin'" - Wiggs Dannyboy
from Jitterbug Perfume
Dirk Deegan
1705 East West Highway #216
Silver Spring, MD 20910
(301)495-2717
dde...@wam.umd.edu
TomW192230
(William Evans Bailey) writes:
>From: w...@leland.Stanford.EDU (William Evans Bailey)
>Subject: Re: "Deadhead Riot" at Deer Creek
>Date: 3 Jul 1995 13:13:13 -0700
>Hi--
>I suspect $35 tickets have something to do with this. Lower the
>price, and the kids might be able to afford getting in the legit
>way. (Old affluent types probably don't jump fences too often.)<
Check the prices the Stones, Eagles and Floyd were charging on their
recent tours. Makes $35 tickets look like a real bargain.
mwagner
>>I think itis high time the Dead just STOPPED TOURING until
>>a way can be found to alleviate this problem.
>
>I also think the Dead should stop touring for a while, at least
>East of the Rockies, until those ASSHOLE gate-crashers get their
>friggin shit together.
>
>Joe Ledva
>j.l...@att.com
More California shows? Works for me. How about at the 1930s
casino on Santa Catalina Island 26 miles into the Pacific from
LA? Rent the entire island, control access to the site...
[I admit this is one of my favorite daydream venues and that
I'm shamelessly exploiting the gatecrashing to try and bring
it into being... btw could be a VERY cool NYE spot 1999>2000]
Michael / mwa...@deltanet.com / michael...@nb.rockwell.com
my opinions directly reflect those of Rockwell International in
that they'd love to see the band play Catalina.
Andra
>From: pelo...@acf6.acf.nyu.edu
>Subject: Re: "Deadhead Riot" at Deer Creek
>In article <804794...@cozmic.com>, con...@cozmic.com (Connie Szeflinski) writes:
>>
>> It saddens me more than i can say to hear of deadheads behaving like a
>> pack of wild animals.
>Connie, that's really insulting. Almost no wild animals
>kill their own for sport or destroy an environment
>that is feeding them.
>David Pelovitz - PELO...@Acfcluster.nyu.edu
The Deer Creek incident is just fucking embarassing. It does not reflect the
general DH population. Unfortunately, I fear many uneducated people will view
it as such. It's a real shame that a few inconsiderate people can ruin it for
the rest of us. It really is.
"There is no way to peace, peace is the way"
- Gandhi
Andra
Andra
>From: st...@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Shawn T. Lucas )
>Subject: Re: "Deadhead Riot" at Deer Creek
>I would just like to say a wholehearted FUCK YOU ASSHOLES! to all those who
>were ignorant enough to participate in the Deer Creek incident, and the
>Albany Incident, and the Highgate incident, and for scamming my seats and
>crowding my space at every weekend show I've been at (with the exception of
>june 30 '95...rare roomy weekend show) in the last two or three years. Yes
>FUCK YOU! FUCK YOU! get off tour! FUCK YOU! I have an Idea
>anyone who is caught jumping a fence should be force fed a sheet of acid and
>then bound and gagged and subjected to the chinese water drop torture. Yeah
>thats it! Seriously though This shit has got to end or the boys will put
>an end to it the hard way. I don't care who it is or what motivates them.
Love all of ya but don't let me catch you
>hopping a fence near me.
I personally don't have a problem at all with people going to shows without
tickets if they're going to hang out without hurting anyone else. I think
it's sort of cool for someone to get a free ticket every ONCE IN A WHILE,
hopefully to one day repay the favor to someone else in need.
But as for ego-centric people who will hurt someone else to get in to the
show or rip off the Dead themselves (that's what they are doing in effect), I
agree FUCK YOU! They go against everything the GRATEFUL Dead mean to me.
Peace to all of you,
Andra
AikoMHoch
ridiculous!
PeteRawson
Certainly the folks who run the venue should prepare with adequate
security, but ultimately those who jumped the fence caused the riot. House
lights on, helicopters buzzing- what a bummer. Are we going to allow a
handful of spoiled brats to destroy our ability to attend and enjoy shows.
This is our community and we all should let these brats know how we feel.
I think the "miracle" bit is geting to be a real drag. Our we doing folks
a favor when they begin to expect a free ride? Get a job for a day and
earn the 30 bucks, stand on line or have it together enough to mail order
your tickets. Hey now miracle gang, or frat boys or whoever, quit sucking
off the rest of us. It would really suck if we cannot see the Dead anymore
because a few punks are incapable of acting like adults!
tboe...@nyx.cs.du.edu
|Was anyone at Deer Creek to witness this riot? Were they wearing tie-dies
|or were they wearing Nirvana t-shirts? Were they old, were they young?
|Were they on something?
I was in back-center of the lawn section section, maybe 20 feet from the
fence. The people that were flowing in where generally under 25 (then again,
so are most of the concert goers). There were varieties of people. Some
looked like what one might coin 'tour-heads', some looked like the more
casual, less dedicated type. Some looked like good people.
One girl brought her big dog with her. Some people came in with nitrous
balloons. One with a can of Budweiser. Someone said they saw a young kid
come in. I saw one fellow carrying in a large (2'x3') painting. It was a
pretty strange and casual sample.
There may have been 3000 people rioting, but I am pretty sure that nowhere
close to this amount actually came in. While I didn't spend the whole
concert watching the fence behind me, I am pretty sure that less than
1000 people actually got over the fence. Probably even less that 500 (maybe
less??). I noticed the lawn was more tight, but it definately was not
packed as it would be if we had an extra 3000 people in there.
My sister and I brought our Mom to her first show at Deer Creek. We all
started coughing and covering our mouths because of the police tear gas. I
realize the cops must have really wanted to get the gate rushers, but it sucks
that this was at the expense of many innocent people within the venue.
It is one thing to jump a fence (which most did), and a another to tear
sections of it down. There were some upstanding heads that were bitching
at the people who, from the inside, were also trying to weaken and take
off planks of the fence so that it would be easier for others to get in.
Wish I could pass on some infinite wisdom here that would be realized in
the minds of all. I guess I'm kind of spent for now.
Tom
+---------------------------+----------------------+-------------------------+
| Thomas Boehler < > There is no religion |
| tboe...@nyx.cs.du.edu / hmmmmmm..... / higher than truth |
| (public key via finger) > < -unknown |
+---------------------------+----------------------+-------------------------+
ms...@pcnet.com
try to catch them during the 2 or 3 times that they come to the New York metro area each year. I'm
really going to miss them when they're gone, just as I did when they stopped touring in 1974. This is all
very sad. So, so sad.
ar...@tiac.net
: Does anyone have any idea why this bullsh*t is happening? I really don't
: have a clue....but we have got to figure out what to do about it.
:
: Was anyone at Deer Creek to witness this riot? Were they wearing tie-dies
: or were they wearing Nirvana t-shirts? Were they old, were they young?
: Were they on something?
:
Oh come on! Do you really think the kind of t-shirt they were wearing
makes any difference? Do you think someone who puts on a tye-die is
automatically "cooler" than somebody who puts on a Nirvana shirt?
Welcome to reality. These people all consider themselves "fans" of the
Grateful Dead. In fact, they consider themselves such "great" fans that
they can't stand the thought of standing outside a concert while the Dead
perform *even though* they didn't bother to procure a ticket ahead of
time. Even though the show was at one of the smallest venues on summer
tour. They're such big fans that they think they have a right to attend
any concert they show up at.
This is what the scene has come to. I think it really shows the Dead's
generosity (either to their real fans or to the people who depend on GDP
for a living, I'm not sure which) that they continue to put up with this
shit. Every year they have to go through the ever-shrinking list of venues
who will put up with their spoiled-brat followers, try to find a few new
ones, and pray that the leeches won't fuck them up as well (like they did
to Highgate). The six band members certainly don't need the money, and I
can't imagine many other successful bands that would put up with this
shit.
If they wanted to, the Dead could retire from the road and make plenty of
money releasing CD's of live performances (sorry tapers!). Personally, I'm
not sure that doing something like that for four or five years would
necessarily be a bad idea.
--Art
--
Boston Ska home page
http://www.tiac.net/users/artc
finger ar...@artc.tiac.net for PGP public key
ar...@tiac.net
Kanter) wrote:
:
It's true... many spoiled rich college kids skip school to see the Dead,
in addition to seeing them in the summer.
ar...@tiac.net
<gr...@mail.binc.net> wrote:
: > with the band members using click tracks to stay in line.
: >
:
: What?!! Click tracks?! I highly doubt that! Do you know this for
: sure?
I heard from a number of different sources that the band were using click
tracks on the new songs last fall.
Doug Allaire
>good suggestions guys, but unfortunately, i dont think the gate crashers
>are probably the deadicated fans who read relix and whatnot. Maybe we
>should get this message placed in the FREE DDN pamphlets passed out in the
>lots at the shows. That seems to be the only place we ever see these
>idiots, and they probably take them since the are FREE. (if they can read,
>that is).
DDN has been editorializing on this sort of thing for quite a while.
Maybe their quiet way of putting things is too subtle for the scum.
Dean Riddlebarger
>True. A woman I work with spent about 3 hours trying to get in just to
>park. Finally, the official parking people told her that the lot was
>full and she should just park by the side of the road. She walked all
>the way to the entrance (a good half mile or so) just to see some guy's
>leg getting chewed by a police dog (the rioting had already started and
Why, yes, they finally did have to unleash the dogs. But by the time
they did they already had several cruisers damaged by rocks and bottles
and a couple of their own injured. As Larry Niven likes to say,
"It's not *smart* to throw shit at an armed man."
>she decided it was a bad scene), so she turned around to walk back to
>her car just in time to see it getting towed away. She had to walk five
>miles to a phone to get someone to pick her up. The towing charges were
>$110, the tickets that she never used cost $78. Boy, was she pissed off.
>Last night was just bad news all around.
Sunday night was what happens when three to four times the capacity
of the venue tries to show up. The only major thing I would ding
Sunshine and the Hamilton County authorities on is their decision to
not filter the inbound traffic on the basis of valid tickets. Of
course, had they done that the Net would be screaming about the
fascist crowd control...sigh.
>I also heard (rumor, so take it as such) that the backlog of cars was
>caused by random drug searches of the cars entering. Everyone had to
>wait while dogs sniffed the car and passengers emptied their fanny
>packs. Then once you got it they charged $10 to park. I have a problem
We entered the lots from the eastern approach on route 238, and the
entire parking process took less than 30 minutes. No searches or
stops seen on our side, though I cannot attest to what may have
taken place on the (totally clogged) western approach. The worst
blockage we encountered was on the small bridge that crosses the
creek once you enter the property and head for the back lots. Venue
management had over a half-dozen yellow shirts trying to control
the pedestrian traffic, but they were periodically overwhelmed and
the inbound cars were forced to wait. The parking fee was only
$5.
When we entered the venue itself we really didn't see any out of the
ordinary searching. A few large backpacks were checked, but I've
seen worse at last summer's Metallica concert. I had a stuffed
fanny pack- glasses, cell phone, cigs- and was waved straight
through. Most of the blockage was due to venue management's
attempts to filter bogus tickets. We saw 2-3 turned away for every
one going in. Seems to me that venue management was making a
valid attempt to get the honest ticket holders into the show. Now
this post can start a flurry of followups from people who think
that all things in life should be free...
>Anybody have any idea what set the gate-crashers off? Or did one stupid
>head say Hey dudes, let's rush the fence, and thousands followed?
I'd have to guess that it was just a flash-crowd effect. We made a
restroom stop during the set break, and when we returned to our
lower pavillion seats there were two young girls behind us who were
bragging about their trip over the wall. I guess I was not in a
confrontational mood that evening (coward!), but I did not let them
know that they were a major part of the problem. I did, however,
turn to my friend and say, "Glock, please!"
I had mail-order tickets, but got stuck in the Great Traffic Jam the
year that Alpine died. Based on the Highgate and Albany reports I
was telling friends a week ago that Deer Creek was probably going to
crash in flames; the signs were pointing to a repeat of the Alpine
scene. It's probably time to make a serious push for more external
crowd control. No entry to or around the venue unless a valid
ticket is presented, and no vending unless a venue can mimic the
arrangements at Shoreline.
The only bright side about the upcoming Chicago shows is that the
Chicago cops *will* quickly deal with anyone who gets out of hand,
and Lake Shore Drive ensures that the ticketless hordes cannot
clog the venue's entry points in a major way.
-- rdr
--
<*> Dean Riddlebarger The bus came by <*>
<*> Ameritech And I got on <*>
<*> r...@use.com That's when it all began <*>
<*> (317) 488-3067 <*>
M.D. Pasche
>I suspect $35 tickets have something to do with this. Lower the
>price, and the kids might be able to afford getting in the legit
>way.
First of all, the $35 dollar tickets were being SCALPED for $100 or
more, and secondly, there weren't enough tickets to go around.
Rich Maloney
asked for there tickets when you entered the parking lot.I have to
wonder how many $10.00 parking fees were collected with out a care of the
outcome.I don't think there were any problems at this show,and i dont
condone (sp?) gate crashing but if blame is what were looking for i'd say
greed has to take its share.
rich
: >I do find it interesting that this happened in the summer tour (i.e.,
: >after most people are out of school). Does this tell us something? Too
: >many people with too little to do except travel around to shows begging
: >for tix and money, then in the fall, off they go to school again with lots
: >of parents' money! Hmmm.....
: Nope...invalid assumption. Seen riots at Brendan Byrne in NJ in the fall
: of 1985 (blood all over the wall and strechers as people threw bottles
: and the turnstiles themselves trying to get in) and in Pittsburgh in the
: Spring of 1990 (89?). Don't get on a rich-boy soapbox. It doesn't suit you.
: Andy
: LA, CA
--
Doug Allaire
Well, kids, it was nice while it lasted. My first thought on hearing
about the uproar was, "That's the end of that."
Deer Creek was a great place to see the Dead. Room to relax and great
sound (er, maybe not last year). The town was hesitant at first, then
supportive. They've probably changed their minds now.
Back in 74 the band stopped touring because of the hassles with venues
(among other things). It seems like a prime time for another hiatus.
But can they come back like the did twenty years ago?
Dan Larkins
kleac...@aol.com (KLeach1118) wrote:
>
>In <3t9598$j...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
>the...@aol.com (The Bike) wrote:
>
[some stuff deleted]
>> The only people to blame in the "riot" is Deer Creek itself. Every
>>year there is threat of fence jummping. If Deer Creek had the security
>>tighter at that back area, then noone would have made it up that hill.
>
>No, the only people to blame are the people who jumped the fence
>
Amen. It's high time for us to find ways to control ourselves. There are a
number of things in life that are better when there "tighter" ;-) but security
is not one of them.
Lets hope Chicago's finest does not use this as an excuse to increase controls
over the lot scene.
-dan
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dan Larkins | Somewhere out there is a place that's cool
257 Garfield | where peace and balance are the rule
New Lenox, IL 60451 | working toward the future
(815) 485-6066 | like some kind of mystic jewel
dlar...@interaccess.com | and waiting for a
| and waiting for a
| and waiting for a miracle. - Bruce Cockburn
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jason Baker
Evans Bailey) writes:
>
>Hi--
>
>I suspect $35 tickets have something to do with this. Lower the
>price, and the kids might be able to afford getting in the legit
>way. (Old affluent types probably don't jump fences too often.)
>
>Bill
>
It's not the ticket prices, it's the people. Only Assholes throw
bottles and rocks at others.
James Moss
and bust everyone for anything in and around a Dead venue. A few
parasites can ruin it for everyone...look what AIDS did to sex. I don't
have a ready made solution...maybe the band needs to address it somehow
or stop touring for a while. As for me, I may not go to as many shows and
will certainly not encourage any beggars I see at the shows....EZ Jim
Greg Fellman
Shawn T. Lucas
were ignorant enough to participate in the Deer Creek incident, and the
Albany Incident, and the Highgate incident, and for scamming my seats and
crowding my space at every weekend show I've been at (with the exception of
june 30 '95...rare roomy weekend show) in the last two or three years. Yes
job,security is just doing what is expected of them, the Dead are playing
because they love what they do, and the people who have tix are just going
to get in. NO ONE ELSE IS OR SHOULD! ITS NOT YOUR RIGHT! I have an Idea
anyone who is caught jumping a fence should be force fed a sheet of acid and
then bound and gagged and subjected to the chinese water drop torture. Yeah
thats it! Seriously though This shit has got to end or the boys will put
an end to it the hard way. I don't care who it is or what motivates them.
peace and safety at a show. Love all of ya but don't let me catch you
hopping a fence near me.
Later,
Shawn (who admits that this post is slightly immature and probably wont fall
on the right eyes anyway, but I had to vent. I'm still trying to decide if
I'm even going to MO for the last Boston garden show ever which falls on me
23rd bday, but I don't know if I want to deal with the ever increasing
asshole mob at shows)
John Ingram
writes:
>
>It sickens my soul to be relaying this info, but this comes
>straight off the Associated Press wire:
>
>"Thousands Riot, Throw Bottles, Rocks, Outside Grateful
>Dead Concert"
> NOBLESVILLE, Ind. (AP) - Several thousand people rioted
>Sunday night outside a Grateful Dead concert, throwing
>rocks and bottles and damaging some police cars before
>officers used tear gas to disperse the crowd.
> Four police officers were hurt, although the extent of
>their injuries was not immediately available, said Cpl.
>Clint Bundy of the Indiana State Police.
> He said the riot began in the parking lot of the outdoor
>arena, about 15 miles from Indianapolis, when 3,000 to
>4,000 people rushed the security wall behind the stage
>and tore it down, prompting officers to call for help.
> "It started as a large group, and then it just grew and
>it got unruly," Bundy said.
> Two hundred officers from the Indiana State Police,
>Hamilton County Sherrif's Department and the Fishers
>and Noblesville Police Departments responded to the riot.
>Arrests were made but figures were not immediately
>available.
> "We object to this sort of behavior," said Grateful Dead
>spokesman Dennis McNally. "It's characteristic of some
>youth. Unfortunately, when you have a public event, you
>can't dictate ecessarily who's going to show up."
>
>(transmitted around 12:30 a.m. EST Monday, 7-3-95)
>
>You know, it's bullshit like this that's gonna choke the
>life out of this wonderful scene.
---->it really sucks that even McNally is blaming the youngins-Jon
Shawn T. Lucas
PS I know that the Boston Garden shows havent been offiacially confirmed yet
but I was planning ahead like anyone who wants to honestly get into a show
would.
PPS FUCK YOU gate crashing selfish bastards! Sorry folks I'm usually not
this exciteable but this shit has gotten me pissed! People here on rmgd
aren't the problem...Hmmm! There are plenty of people here with plenty of
connections maybe we, the net heads could somehow get some literatrure
together to pass out at shows (on recycled paper of course and with the
assumption that it leaves the lot with the people who take it. This
literature could include deadiquitte and maybe a list of all the venues
we've lost due to incidents like yesterdays. We could also throw in a
hisory of "the scene". I'm not saying we should say THIS IS HOW WE ALL
SHOULD ACT and declare it law. We are deadheads after all, supposedly some
of the most open minded people around. We could just get a friendly
reminder out to folks at shows. Maybe all of those MP fellas with so much
to say could be in charge of that too. I'll supervise ya if ya want.
Seriously though we could do more than sit by a damn keyboard and bitch. We
could get off of our burnt asses and fucking show that we give a shit!
Later again y'all I'm sorry for spewing but I'm a little upset.
S.T. Lucas
Crazy Fingers
Greg Fellman <gr...@mail.binc.net> wrote:
>
>I would like to hear from one of the people that actually jumped the
>fence and their own thoughts on their own ignorant actions. What the
>hell were you thinking?
I didn't jump the fence (I had a genuine ticket in), but must admit that
if I had been outside, I would have. (But after what happened, I now see
why I shouldn't go to a show unless I have a ticket, and will never do it
again...I used to go to Deer Creek ticketless and sit outside and listen
to the tunes, dancing happily. No more.)
However, ripping down the fence was even more ignorant than running it.
That is something I can only understand by thinking about the idiocy of
mob mentality.
Blessed Be
--Crazy Fingers
m-greco2.uiuc.edu
good show and indescribably disappointed that I'm not seeing another one
right now. I rarely read this newsgroup except to get set lists, and I've
never posted here, but after reading some of the reaction to events at
Deer Creek, I had to contribute my .02.
I'm as pissed off as anyone else about not seeing a show tonight, but
it seems to me many of the responses posted here so far, and a lot of the
attitudes displayed, do little to solve the problems on tour this summer
and can potentially do a lot to make them worse. I certainly appreciate
the need to "vent," but calling people "fucking low life scum," "miracle
ticket maggots," "broke and stoned fucking assholes," etc., etc. does
NOTHING to discourage the actions of the ticketless, the gawkers, and
others who have negatively impacted upon the scene. Few of these people
have access to the Net, and fewer still are going to be deterred by being
called nasty names. Even worse, attitudes like this just legitimate and
reproduce the very belligerance (sp?), selfishness, and disrespect for
other people which drives the gate-crashers, *stubbies,* and fence-jumpers
of the world.
I certainly don't condone what the fence-jumpers at Deer Creek did, and
ultimately they are the only ones who can be held responsible for their
actions, but IMHO a more constructive response is called for, one that
acknowledges the role MANY people besides the gate-crashers have played in
turning the scene and the shows into increasingly unpleasant and
aggravating experiences over the years. Every time someone buys a $5
balloon, a $3 beer, or (my personal favorite) a $2 Jagermeister shot, they
contribute to the greed and profiteering that has made the parking lot
scene more important than the music for many people, and a magnet for the
ticketless who can still count on partying for 6 hours before the show.
Every time someone transports ticketless people to shows (not just the
hitchers on the road , but *friends* who have no tickets as well), they
contribute to the swarm of people who inevitably either get hassled by or
hassle security and cops outside the venue. Every time someone in the
audience cheers on the fence-jumpers and gate-crashers (which many in the
audience at Deer Creek were doing), it fuels the lemming-like mentality
which provoked the act. You get the idea. Yes, hold the gate-crashers
responsible for what they did, but this problem is much bigger than 4,000
people or the miracle-seekers.
I also don't think that not letting people into parking lots without
tickets, or many of the other *authoritarian* responses I've seen being
advocated, are desirable or likely to work. How do you keep people out of
a parking lot surrounded by corn-fields? Would we want to be paying $30
to get into the Deer Creek parking lot next year to pay for the new
electrified fence around the lot? More importantly, do we really want to
encourage a situation at shows where the cops have reason to search EVERY
car trunk, bus, etc. for people who might be "smuggled in"? Ultimately,
solutions like this make things more unpleasant for everyone and do
nothing to alter the larger mindsets and attitudes which cause problems on
tour in the first place.
I think the only way to really change the scene is through concerted
action by those within the community--and that means all of us. Messages
by band members regarding gatecrashing--either in Dead-oriented
publications, on the hotline, or even through leaflets at shows or
something--might help (though, if the past few years are any indication,
pleas by the band just aren't enough). A concerted effort by everyone NOT
to contribute to the profiteers, as well as verbally discouraging others
from doing so, might deter those who come for money and not music as well
as those who show up without tickets and are content to party in the
parking lot and destroy a few gates here and there. Not bringing tickets
to sell AT THE VENUE, which is precisely why people continue to show up
hoping for a *miracle*, can help discourage the ticketless hordes from
tagging along across the country. Even more direct action, like not
contributing to panhandlers, and *gently* discouraging (in other words,
something besides calling them "fucking low-life scum") those who ask if
you have extras from coming to shows without tickets, might help. The
same kinds of social pressure can work to deter those who trash the
parking lots, quiet the people who insist on talking through every slow
Jerry song, and generally discourage those who do oh-so-many other things
that people find objectionable at shows.
I guess I've rambled long enough. It just seems to me there are many
non-authoritarian solutions that can help to turn this scene around. Rash
and angry reactions aren't the way to go.
Peace, Mike.
"One way or another, this darkness got to give. . ."
David R. Smith
I am the one who suggested the police just let the gate
yearners through and perhaps let the GD management absorb
and minor financial deficits.
A few points from this boomer:
I am not a deadhead, last concert by them I attened was in 1971.
I do appreciate their early music however.
I also believe that the 60s era created some very positive
social visions which are also very hard to attain, but that
does not make them less valuable or important.
The GD are often anathema to police and conservative locals
as representative of that era of "troublemakers" from the
60s and generally not dressing like everyone else.
Thus there is constant pressure by local areas to cease
GD concerts one way or another.
There is also a rise in punk behavior everywhere, age not
important. I am always saddened by this phenomenon.
I consider for example that tv producers can also be punks
when they can put on air Beavis and Butthead for example.
Thus the punk mentality is not always pushing the gate,
literally.
I also actually appreciate seeing anger expressed here and
in email to me about these issues, since as a faithful
60s boomer we all knew the value of expressing emotions
(but without violence or physical aggression).
Such expression as was shown at Esalen, in Big Sur, always
leads to deeper thinking of the basic problems.
There ARE creative solutions to this problem: it need not
be the end of GD concerts in one state after another.
And 31 million dollar income by the GD last year should
give them more ability to get involved in this problem:
for example as someone posted to discuss it at the
concert if gate pressure is becoming a distraction....
Perhaps the GD quietly feel that simply being brave
enough to tour and continue to give concerts is
enough and that they have no obligation to do more.
Still, $31 million would buy a nice apt with dormers
on the Haight Ashbury.....sign those were the days....
david boomer smith
Seth Jackson
: In <3t83lc$e...@newsbf02.news.aol.com> paulg...@aol.com (PaulGerald)
: writes:
: > "We object to this sort of behavior," said Grateful Dead
: >spokesman Dennis McNally. "It's characteristic of some
: >youth. Unfortunately, when you have a public event, you
: >can't dictate ecessarily who's going to show up."
: ---->it really sucks that even McNally is blaming the youngins-Jon
Well, who exactly do you think crashed the gates?
--
Seth Jackson
Raymond V. Liedka
>
> Of course the police and G Dead promoters could have just
> let those people in for free to watch the concert.
> I remember back in the 60s when there were large concerts
> like this, if there were enough people who did not have
> tickets and were really wistfully desirous of attendance,
> they would just be let through the gates.
> Thus in a way it is not just the police but the money/business
> aspect of the concert as well.
> david smith
>
>
Huh??!!
while i can understand a decision to let people into shows for free being
made on a safety issue basis, I do not approve of just 'letting people
in' cause they want to. There *are* physical limits to venues (though I
admit there is some leeway in stadiums or airports), but just because you
CAN squeeze another person or two or three thousand doesn't mean you
SHOULD or you HAVE to.
It isn't "the money/business aspect" either. If I purchase a ticket, the
promoter, performer, agents, venue staff and security...all of 'em have a
responsibility to *me* as a paying customer to make my "concert
experience" pleasurable and comfortable. Don't ask for my money and then
crowd several more thousand in just cause "they wistfully desired" to see
the show.
Scenario: You are waiting for your pizza and cokes and stuff and some
fellow comes in the store (not destitute or homeless or starving, even)
and says he really really wants a small pie, but just doesn't have the
wherewithal to pay for it at the moment. The person behind the counter
gives the guy a pie (who then takes the only seat in the place left that
you had an eye one), and then the counter person turns to you and says,
"That'll be $12.34, please."
Ray Liedka
GD 32392
are probably the deadicated fans who read relix and whatnot. Maybe we
should get this message placed in the FREE DDN pamphlets passed out in the
lots at the shows. That seems to be the only place we ever see these
idiots, and they probably take them since the are FREE. (if they can read,
that is).
I was at the Creek...fuckin shame....
Peace
Pam
DaveB626
>> The only people to blame in the "riot" is Deer Creek itself.
>To which paulg...@aol.com (PaulGerald) pointed, clicked and screamed
>AAAAAAARRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! Somebody please flame
>the life from this person. I'm too worked up to do it right now.
Now wait a minute. Mr. Bike might be on to something. According to the
Army Corps of Engineers, the minimum angle on a defensive slope is 50
degrees. The short, shallow slope of the rear parameter fence was no more
than 43 degrees, tops. This isn't child's play here.
(-<-) peace,
dave blackwood
mwagner
> I hope that someone within the Dead organization really
>does read the postings here, and takes some of the
>advice offered....
>Steve
I don't know, but I would guess that arranging a series of
big concerts and then traveling for a month at a time with
all kinds of equipment is a LOT of work, and I'd imagine it
would be upsetting if not depressing when you had people
riot outside of one of the shows -- it's upsetting that
the problems @ Deer Creek happened, hopefully it doesn't
upset the equilibrium of the rest of the tour...
Jeff Kahn
-> year there is threat of fence jummping. If Deer Creek had the securi
-> tighter at that back area, then noone would have made it up that hill
-> you ask me, It's their way of insuring The Dead of not being able to
-> there in the future. (Assholes) (sorry, again).
Come on! The people to blame are the people who did it.
John j Macario
: DDN has been editorializing on this sort of thing for quite a while.
How bout this? A folded 8.5 x 11 sheet of paper to be passed out to
anyone looking to purchase/scam/miricle tickets outside of a venue. On
the outside of the paper are the words _A Clue_. On the inside, _Get
One_ along with a list of venues lost in the last several years along
with a one paragraph message from the band, _we're killing the scene . .
., etc._
I'd bet that a lot of folks would be willing to pass em out.
John Tavares
alot of money for a concert ticket nowadays. Have you seen the price of
Clapton tickets for the up-comning tour, it's a joke. JT
John Tavares Manhattan Transfer / Edit j...@mte.com
ar...@tiac.net
(Andra ) wrote:
:
:
: The Deer Creek incident is just fucking embarassing. It does not reflect the
: general DH population.
What does that mean? Unfortunately, I think it reflects the "general" DH
population all too well. We had very similar incidents at Highgate and
Albany as well as Deer Creek, so it's not *that* unusual!
Paul Vames
Douglas Pugh <hes...@rs1.tcs.tulane.edu> wrote:
>
>Oh good God. You really believe that? That we (Deadheads, the good, bad, and
>ugly) aren't responsible for any of our own actions? Perhaps Deer Creek should
>have had 15 foot high concrete barriers and swat teams to keep out the
>Heads. Because everyone knows DeadHeads can't control themselves, right? We
>have to have our hands held and be kept in our place. Sheeze.
>
>The people to blame were those that rioted. Pure and simple. Perhaps this is
>the wake up call the band and the fans have needed. Hell, its been occuring
>more frequently every tour. Maybe its time for a break.
>
Thanks.
As I see it, this situation is a natural outgrowth of the overgrown "lot
scene". Despite the warnings and appeals which have been made over the
years, the "lot scene" is an acceptable, even desireable attraction to
many non-deadheads looking to score drugs, buy crap, and hang around.
As many or more non-ticketed people are showing up as those who have
tickets. They show up because of a desire to party, to be a part of
something. They show up to sell beer, cigarettes, veggie burritos,
beads, baubles, and crap. They don't have tickets to get in. For
whatever reason, the parking lot holds some interest. (I personally find
it quit useful for storing my car while I'm IN the venue, silly me!)
Then some genius without a ticket gets a brainstorm:
"I don't have a ticket but I'd sure like to see what's going on in there.
Hey, why purchase admission when I can `steal' admission. Nobody will mind,
right? Deadheads are Kind, they'll understand." The first genius tells
two friends and so on.
The ultimate result: No Greek, No Frost, No Alpine or Meriwether, No
Ventura, No Long Beach Arena, and now......No Deer Creek.
Hey vendors and other lot leeches, listen up: You've Ruined a Good
Thing! You Are a Hideous Cancer! Please, Go The Fuck Away! This is
Your Fault!
__________ ___________________ ______________ ___________________
Paul Vames * <pva...@netcom.com> * Seal Beach, CA * Pacta Sunt Servanda
~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
c...@gisa.nw.att.com
year old daughter's first show. I heard about the problems on Sunday
but when we left Chicago on Monday they had not cancelled the show
yet. Needless to say, we were crushed when we arrived in Noblesville
to find out the show had been cancelled. Try to explain to a 2 year
old that's just been in the car for 3 hours that we are not going
to be going "singing and dancing" like she's been talking about and
looking forward to for days, and instead we're getting back into
the car for the 3 hour drive back. The only way I could think to
make her understand was to tell her that it had broke... and thats
how I really felt. The whole scene is "broken" - there are too many
people, and too many assholes that have turned what used to be a
fun, open, caring and loving experience into a big headache.
I was really looking forward to sharing this with my daughter - now
I think its just not worth it. Good luck to all - I still love
the music and will treasure the many happy memories of the shows I've
seen but this is it for me.. at least until something can be done
to end the chaos. This just isn't fun anymore.
Peace, Chris
catp...@delphi.com
>It saddens me more than i can say to hear of deadheads behaving like a
>pack of wild animals. And please please please do not try to pass this
>off on "locals". It seems to me that if it is locals, they have been
>at almost every venue lately, and if the "locals" are the same
>everywhere, then we need to find a way to deal with them, 'cause these
>problems are not solving themselves... infact, they seem to be getting
>worse.
Thank you, Connie! I totally agree! For me, I lost all patience I had
with the "scene" three years ago, and hearing of this Deer Creek news
made me sick to my stomach.
I have no sympathy whatsoever for the idiots who saw fit to gate-crash
and get arrested! It's sh*t like that the GD scene has dealt with for
over a DECADE!
>I'm so sorry for the folks who had their hearts set on a show
>tonight... seems that it wasn't meant to be.
What Connie said. However, here's hoping that some lessons are learned,
especially for those miracle ticket seeking LOSERS who see fit to
expect something for nothing when there are many of us who *earn*
the right to attend shows by making a living, scheduling the appropriate
vacation time, treat areas with respect and leave only footprints!
*-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-*
| John J. Wood catp...@delphi.com |
*-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-*
| "Set the gearshift for the high gear of your soul!" |
*-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-*
Jeff Stampes
: I, for one, support the idea of mandatory ticket checking at the gate. No
: ticket, no entrance to the lot. PERIOD. These are drastic times, and call
: for drastic measures.
I have to agree with Sean (as usual)...I remember a time shortly after
In The Dark where they actually DID check for tix upon entry to the
lot at Giant's Stadium, and while i didn't like it at the time, I
would welcome the return of this practice.
--
-- Jeff Stampes -- NeoCAD, Inc. -- Boulder, CO -- sta...@neocad.com --
-- Ultimate Frisbee...It's not just for dogs anymore. --
-- Any fool can make bread out of grain...God intended it for beer! --
Jeff Stampes
: The only people to blame in the "riot" is Deer Creek itself. Every
: year there is threat of fence jummping. If Deer Creek had the security
: tighter at that back area, then noone would have made it up that hill. If
: you ask me, It's their way of insuring The Dead of not being able to play
: there in the future. (Assholes) (sorry, again).
: The crowd at Deer Creek before the show was crazy (not unruly, just
: alot of poeple).
: I hope tonight is full of just as much adventure, but not the 'bad'
: kind.
: Peace- Jen, the Hen
Ok, so we'll blame Deer Creek if that will make you happy. And if you
get the chance, say Howdy to Elvis for me.
This is one of the most poorly-thought-out statements I've read in
a long time. Deer Creek is not to be blamed for their lack of
20-foot barb-wire fences to keep people out, the people that show up
with no tickets are to be blamed for being morons.
Jeff Stampes
: Hi--
: I suspect $35 tickets have something to do with this. Lower the
: price, and the kids might be able to afford getting in the legit
: way. (Old affluent types probably don't jump fences too often.)
: Bill
*BUZZZZZZZZ* Oh, I'm Sorry Bill, but that is INcorrect
Thanks for playing though.
Jeff: "What are incosiderate, selfish assholes?~
Correct!!
jesse
ar...@tiac.net wrote:
: In article <3ta0du$q...@girtab.usc.edu>, kan...@girtab.usc.edu (Andrew
: Kanter) wrote:
: : glda...@aol.com (Gldancer) writes:
: :
: :
: : >I do find it interesting that this happened in the summer tour (i.e.,
: : >after most people are out of school). Does this tell us something? Too
: : >many people with too little to do except travel around to shows begging
: : >for tix and money, then in the fall, off they go to school again with lots
: : >of parents' money! Hmmm.....
: :
: : Nope...invalid assumption. Seen riots at Brendan Byrne in NJ in the fall
: : of 1985 (blood all over the wall and strechers as people threw bottles
: : and the turnstiles themselves trying to get in) and in Pittsburgh in the
: : Spring of 1990 (89?). Don't get on a rich-boy soapbox. It doesn't suit you.
: :
: It's true... many spoiled rich college kids skip school to see the Dead,
: in addition to seeing them in the summer.
: --Art
all right, let's not start generalizing about 'rich college kids'. this 'rich college kid'
works a real job, pays real rent, and real bills. when i go to a show, i always have a
ticket unless i know the show isn't sold out and i'll be able to buy a ticket when i get
there. i'm sooooo sick of people getting up on their high horses and telling us that
they're so much better than everybody else. I HATE THIS WHOLE SITUATION. IT SUCKS!!!
AAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
asjdglk 'htweri;p\oad'jftgoi qe;awhfg;lijkdsHK;jsfh;oiwdf h du;o
whatever. i don't give a shit anymore. maybe the dead should stop touring. i'll take a
jerry band show without ticketless hords over an out of control scene at a dead show any
day. fuck it. these idiots have screwed it all up. i don't think the scene is repairable.
it's just gotten too big. and the same fucking thing is happening on phish tour. alghough
on phish tour i'm willing to put up with it BECAUSE YOU KNOW YOU'RE GOING TO GET A HOT
SHOW. this obviously isn't the case with the dead anymore. it's time to hang it up. we've
still got our tapes, we've still got our memories. let's quit while we're ahead.
Machete Bug
>
> Of course the police and G Dead promoters could have just
> let those people in for free to watch the concert.
> I remember back in the 60s when there were large concerts
> like this, if there were enough people who did not have
> tickets and were really wistfully desirous of attendance,
> they would just be let through the gates.
> Thus in a way it is not just the police but the money/business
> aspect of the concert as well.
> david smith
Is this guy seriously in need of a reality check, or what.
Machete Bug
Skip Barger
|My daughter and her friends were there and I'm just curious
|if she's in jail. I'm serious. Somebody would be doing a lot
|of people a big favor if they did this.
Did she have a ticket before she went to the show ? If she
did in all likelyhood she was not arrested.
Skip
Machete Bug
>
> I would like to hear from one of the people that actually jumped the
> fence and their own thoughts on their own ignorant actions. What the
> hell were you thinking?
In light of the cancellation, do you really think anyone with a shred
of sanity or sense of self-preservation is going to fess up to this one?
Machete Bug
Jay Strauss
writes:
>Sean E. Kutzko (tig...@prairienet.org) wrote:
>
>: I, for one, support the idea of mandatory ticket checking at the
gate. No
>: ticket, no entrance to the lot. PERIOD. These are drastic times, and
call
>: for drastic measures.
>
>I have to agree with Sean (as usual)...I remember a time shortly after
>In The Dark where they actually DID check for tix upon entry to the
>lot at Giant's Stadium, and while i didn't like it at the time, I
>would welcome the return of this practice.
there is no doubt this should be done.
there are things you can replace, and others you can not...
the time has come to weigh those things
this space is getting hot...
Karl A. Hintz
writes:
>The names of all those who were busted should be given to the band,
and
>these folks should be peremently banned from shows.
How do you propose to accomplish this?
Peace,
Larry A Rosen
the...@aol.com (The Bike) wrote:
> We were sitting on the upper lawn when people started jumping the
>fence. The jumpers were all ages and types. Mostly heads. The only
>thing you needed to jump that back fence was to beable to run up the
>incredibly steep up-grade. I don't know how 'they' did it.
> The people who jummped the fence, I would not call 'local farm kids'.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I'm an Indiana local myself, and I'd be wiiling to bet that none of the
jumpers were from around here.
> At first I thought it was great, but when 'they' started ripping the
>boards out of the wood fence, and tearing apart the chain link fence, then
>I felt it was going too far. Deer Creek is the only venue that I've seen
>the Dead, and it's the only one I have time to get away for. I would hate
>to see it go because a buch of %$$^&*&*&^$$ can't keep their pants on.
I agree, I hope we don't lose the Dead here altogether, I don't get to get
see shows other than Deer Creek either.
> The crowd at Deer Creek before the show was crazy (not unruly, just
>alot of poeple).
I think Band Management's mistake may have been to schedule the most popular
concerts of the year at the "Smallest Venue of the tour". Obviously demand
was going to be much greater than supply. For example, I was 20th in line for
tickets the day they went on sale. 22 minutes after they went on sale I got
to the counter, handed them my money and.... SORRY THEY ARE SOLD OUT!
One possible way to avoid this again might be to eliminate mail order tickets.
It kind of sucks when you look forward all year to having the Dead back to
play locally only to find out most of the tickets have already been sold
before they even go on sale the the public. If it were harder for the people
on the road to get the tickets (i.e. must go to a local ticketmaster or phone
order)then the local people would have an equal or better chance of getting
their seats. I've always thought that Bands tour so that everyone has an
opportunity to see them.
> I hope tonight is full of just as much adventure, but not the 'bad'
>kind.
> Peace- Jen, the Hen
They cancelled the next show altogether :-(
If they don't book Deer Creek next year, I think we should get a petition to
Grateful Dead's Management.
Hope to see ya' next year!
Andrew C Robertson
>
> I'm so sorry for the folks who had their hearts set on a show
> tonight... seems that it wasn't meant to be.
Ha ha! Connie's a determinist!
drewbob