For me, Valenti was a pop artist, whereas Quicksilver started out in a
different direction.
Early Quicksilver was striking their own blow for improvisation in a rock
setting. Like the GD, QMS was putting two or three tunes together in
extended-play, and writing "suites" or longer tunes that allowed the band to
take the material to interesting and unexpected places. They gave ample
room for the two guitar players to stretch out a bit, and they had a
competent rhythm section and fair to middlin' vocalist. What they didn't
have was a Robert Hunter cranking out lyrics and a Jerry Garcia writing the
tunes. So I always felt that they were short on material, although I liked
the stuff they were doing very much.
When Valenti re-appeared, I lost interest. The tunes became pop-like, I
didn't like his singing style, and the addition of horns and Nicky Hopkins
at various time I thought were mistakes. Why the original foursome couldn't
keep it together, I don't know. I think it would be very interesting to
talk with David Frieberg about that.
But I agree with you about their early recordings ... two of my all time
favorite studio recordings are the original, eponymous Quicksilver Messenger
Service, and Happy Trails. The piece from Mona to Happy Trails contains
some of the most sublime work to come out of the area, and certainly is as
evocative to me of the Electric Ballroom as anything that the GD were doing
at the time.
Judy Gemamber, you were around them folks a fair bit at the time ... got
anything you want to add?
R.
> But, listening to KTRB last month, I got to hear "What About Me" a
> whole bunch of times. It's still not my cup of Cip, but it's a pretty
> good rock-protest song from that era, and a bit eerily prescient as
> regards our New American Century. And that's all the good I have to
> say about Valenti. (Oh, and didn't he write "Get Together", made
> famous by The Youngbloods?)
I know I posted the lyrics to What About Me a few years ago, and will
again (see below). To me, What About Me is an anthem of the 60s. It sums
up that whole era, and to many of us who were already in our 20s when it
came out still think of it as one of the great tunes from the hippie era.
If you have a newfound appreciation of Dino, try to catch Jolie Valenti
sometime. He sounds exactly like his father, and man oh man, does he put
on a helluva show. In fact, when I saw the QMS 40th Anniversary show last
year (with Gary Duncan), Jolie blew Duncan off the stage.
What About Me? - Dino Valenti
You poisoned my sweet water.
You cut down my green trees.
The food you fed my children
Was the cause of their disease.
My world is slowly fallin' down
And the airs not good to breathe.
And those of us who care enough,
We have to do something.......
(Chorus)
Oh.......oh What you gonna do about me?
Oh.......oh What you gonna do about me?
Your newspapers,
They just put you on.
They never tell you
The whole story.
They just put your
Young ideas down.
I was wonderin' could this be the end
Of your pride and glory?
(Chorus)
I work in your factory.
I study in your schools.
I fill your penitentiaries.
And your military too!
And I feel the future trembling,
As the word is passed around.
"If you stand up for what you do believe,
Be prepared to be shot down."
(Chorus)
And I feel like a stranger
In the land where I was born
And I live like an outlaw.
An' I'm always on the run..........................
An Im always getting busted
And I got to take a stand........
I believe the revolution
Must be mighty close at hand.......................
(Chorus)
I smoke marijuana
But I cant get behind your wars.
And most of what I do believe
Is against most of your laws
I'm a fugitive from injustice
But I'm goin' to be free.
Cause your rules and regulations
They dont do the thing for me
(Chorus)
And I feel like a stranger
In the land where I was born
And I live just like an outlaw.
An' I'm always on the run.
> And that's my segue into another random but related thought. I don't
> buy into the notion that America under Bush is worse than America was
> under Dick Nixon. But maybe the reason it seems that way is that the
> stakes just keep getting higher?
On the DVD version of "The US vs John Lennon," there's a truly amazing
Extra entitled "Then And Now."
In the feature length movie, there's interviews with many people from the
60s, including George McGovern, John Dean, Carl Bernstein, Gore Vidal, and
Walter Cronkite, among others. In "Then And Now" those people are asked to
comment on the differences between the Nixon years and the Bush years.
All of them describe Bush as an abomination.
They make Nixon sound intelligent and honest, in comparison to Bush.
That Extra alone is worth renting The US vs John Lennon.
But, it's a great, wonderful, awe-inspiring movie. It's all about the
politicalization of John Lennon, and I loved the movie!
Check it out, rmgd. Highly, highly recommmended.
Joe
But, because I don't have my rmgd decoder ring, I always loved what Dino
Valenti brought to Quicksilver. It wasn't until recent years that rmgd set
me straight, and let me know that Dino sucked.
Oh, and thanks rmgd, for just informing me that Nicky Hopkins sucked too.
Joe
> It wasn't until recent years that rmgd set
> me straight, and let me know that Dino sucked.
>
> Oh, and thanks rmgd, for just informing me that Nicky Hopkins sucked too.
>
> Joe
No problemo, kid!
Well, what Kelly said about Hopkins is true. But it's not at all what
you say "rmgd" said about Hopkins. He did NOT suck. And He did NOT fit
with the QMS that Valenti hijacked. And, if you read my post, it's not
at all a new-found appreciation of Valenti, but really of that one,
single tune, What About Me. As far as I'm concerned, Fresh Air is pop
crap from a band that knew better. Maybe Dave is right...they were
lazy and Valenti was ambitious for fame and glory. Whatever.
Larry
What's the matter, Joe? Ya don't like it when folks don't worship your
taste in music?
Or money.
Pretty much how I see QMS..they coulda been contenders. But I'm
curious about "Duncan split while they were recording 'Happy Trails'".
I've always understood that Happy Trails was a live recording. Not a
single concert, but melded together from two or three shows. No?
I do remember Scully commenting on how it came to be broken into
pieces (tracks) on the album, and I think he's (for once) believable
on this. Back in the day, bands were paid in part on the number of
tracks, i.e., so much per track, as part of the formula of
compensation. So if you had one track on one side of an LP, you got
less than if you divided it into seperate pieces.
So Who Do You Love was often done as a huge psychedelic suite/jam, but
the album cut it into smaller pieces.
One small correction to Kelly's thought: Happy Trails is what they
*should* be remembered for. Unfortunatley, Fresh Air got way more
airplay and way more people associate that dreck with QMS. The first
two albums were as good as anything coming out of SF between 1966 and
1969. Better than most of it, actually.
Larry
Thank you! This is a righteous rock protest song.
> > It wasn't until recent years that rmgd set
> > me straight, and let me know that Dino sucked.
> >
> > Oh, and thanks rmgd, for just informing me that Nicky Hopkins sucked too.
> >
> > Joe
> No problemo, kid!
Well, while waiting for my rmgd decoder ring to arrive, let me ask a
question.
One of the most mind blowing Jerry Garcia shows I ever saw was when Nicky
Hopkins played piano. Was my mind playing tricks on me? Or, did Nicky
Hopkins suck when he played with Jerry, too?
The mind-blowing show I saw was during the hiatus, and it was a 3fer at
Winterland: Jerry Garcia Band, Kingfish and the Keith and Donna Band.
I also have a vague memory of see Hopkins with Jerry at the Keystone
Berkeley. But, it was that Winterland show that Hopkins really
distibnguished himself.
Or did he? Please rmgd, set me straight; tell me what to think, so I can
be just like you.
Joe
Well, to be honest, none of those folks were heroes to me back then.
Certainly not McGovern or John Dean. They're comments might be
"interesting", but they don't carry much weight with me. And compared
to Bush, Nixon was quite intgelligent. But honest? No way. See, back
then it wasn't just the policies of Nixon, but the politics and power
of right-wingers in power at all levels back then. Nixon, in some
ways, more a symbol of what the body-politic was about 1965-75.
Compare almost any state or big-city government back then to now.
Protesters weren't just spied on and occaisionally arrested, they were
beaten, fired from jobs, shot and killed. Lots of them. Not just Kent
State. Poples Park, Jackson State, civil rights workers, farmworker
activists and so on. Kent State was, perhaps, a watershed, but it was
far from unique. The right was powerfully and officially violent in
those days. Maybe that's the main difference I'm getting at.
And that movie is on my Netflix list. I'll view it soon...
Larry
> What's the matter, Joe? Ya don't like it when folks don't worship your
> taste in music?
No, no, no. It's the decoder ring thing.
It's just amusing to me that I learned all these things from rmgd that
I just didn't know before.
For decades, I've loved the music of Dino Valenti's Quicksilver,
and I'm just really appreciative of finally finding out that it
actually sucked.
You can't believe what a relief it is to finally know the truth about
everything, thanks to good old rmgd.
Joe
> Thank you! This is a righteous rock protest song.
I bet you'll be able to hear Jolie sing it at that 40th Anniversary of the
Summer of Love show in September.
Joe
Hopkins was a fine piano player, but probably better as a sober studio
musician than a live artist.
But it really doesn't matter how good he was or wasn't ... to try to pour
him into a band where his instrument and style was not a good fit results in
a clash.
Notice that you aren't going on about what a wonder he was with Quicksilver
... it is about his work with Garcia that you appear to admire him for.
That is fine ... you are entitled to your taste in music, and frankly I
don't give a shit who you like or who you don't like. It is simply a matter
of taste, and folks get a chance to express their taste here--even you.
By the way, Hopkins did suck sometimes with Jerry. See, Hopkins had this
little drinking problem which led to him attempting to perform while drunk.
Which is why Jerry eventually dropped him. Did you know that, Joe? Jerry
gave Nicky Hopkins the boot.
From having listened to my Tower Theatre 1975 cassette about 500
times, most especially the Let's spend the Night Together > Edward the
Mad Shirt Grinder, whatever he was drinking worked pretty well that
night. He did die an early death, which many people attributed to
drug and alcohol abuse. I saw him play with Zero at the Last day
Saloon about a year before he died, and while he could still bring it,
he didn't look very healthy.
ND
> But it really doesn't matter how good he was or wasn't ... to try to pour
> him into a band where his instrument and style was not a good fit results in
> a clash.
Me and Edward the Mad Shirt Grinder had a great big drunken laugh about
that.
Joe
> Pretty much how I see QMS..they coulda been contenders. But I'm
> curious about "Duncan split while they were recording 'Happy Trails'".
> Larry
The info is from an old Relix interview with Chips...
it was spread over 4 ish'es....1988.
he said they named the record "happy trails" because
Duncan announced he was quiting the band as soon as
they started recording...he plays on it...but he left right after
it was released.....hence the title.
Now ya know.
John said it took them 1 year to get the "shady grove"
material together...a YEAR?....I basically think they made
some bread, and weren't driven enough...a YEAR to make
that awful album?...they certainly dint have the Deads or
Airplanes work ethic...and it came back to bite them in the ass.
He said he officially quit the band october 5th 1970 because
the music took a decidedly folk turn with the addition of
Valenti....and he had less and less to do.
Also, Hopkins got him into studio sessions, and the band
didn't like it.
I wish I could upload the articles....it's pretty extensive.
Then...we'd know everything!
^^^^^^^^
He was sort of a father figure type to Gary Duncan (who was disillusioned
with the direction of QMS), and they took off to ride Harleys and form
countless bands until that fateful New Year's Eve when they rambled on stage
at Winterland and a new era was born. Dino and Chip were at odds much of
the time on a personal level and it's true that Dino's gargantuan ego sucked
the energy out of the room at times. But no one could argue with the
success Dino's songs brought for a while, John joked that Dino could write a
whole song walking to the shitter.
Freiberg the stoned hippie was happy not to have the lead vocal duties. His
leaving the band was due mostly to a stay at the San Mateo county jail for
herb possession, after which he went over to catch an Airplane.
Every band went through multiple changes but love Dino or hate him, the
changes would have been there for the Quicksilver as well. I met Dino only
once myself, but I truly fell hard for him after that, so maybe I'm biased.
But if he hadn't ever shared a stage with Quicksilver in his career they
still wouldn't have played Happy trails for 25 years.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
Corky
There is a pretty good account of Chet Powers, aka Dino Valenti, on
Wikipedia ... it having been abstracted from another source. One relevant
quote:
"Despite occasional personnel changes, the band maintained its pace through
"Quicksilver" (1971) and "Comin' Thru" (1972) before calling it quits. While
QMS enjoyed positive commercial success during its years with Dino Valente,
there is also no question that the earliest die-hard '60s fans never forgave
the band for forsaking it "attack of the killer guitars" base in favor of
Valente's ballads, which were even augmented by horn sections on late
albums. The 2-LP Anthology was issued in 1973, and a short-lived reunion
tour and album, "Solid Silver," took them through 1975. Dino signed a deal
with Warner Brothers in 1974, and if their archives contain any recordings,
now would be a good time to license them out. To greater or lesser extent,
only the bootleggers and hardcore fans have kept the Quicksilver legend
alive these past two decades."
In essence, we are talking about two different bands, really.
I thought it was interesting to read that Duncan quit QMS and went off with
Valenti, having been disillusioned by the direction of QMS. However it is
Duncan who has resurrected the QMS band name for himself.
Thanks, Judy! It is always interesting to hear your recollections, and ya
ought to post more often!
Richard
> I thought it was interesting to read that Duncan quit QMS and went off with
> Valenti, having been disillusioned by the direction of QMS.
Joel Selvin's book Summer Of Love has a good mini-bio of QMS woven
into it including a fairly detailed explanation of Duncan's departure
and his return with Valenti in tow.
Pat Buzby
Chicago, IL
Joel Selvin is a complete ass. Is his book any good?
Larry
If he is a complete ass, I'd say it's not much in evidence in that
book.
Pat Buzby
Chicago, IL
He's a psuedo-hipster chameleon. If it's cool to like the Dead, he
does. If it seems like the Dead are "out" this season, he'll be the
first to let ya know. He writes books for the worst of reasons, to let
you (and his employer) know how hip he is.
Years ago (the late 1980s or early 90s?) there was a classical music
critic who worked the same paper as Selvin, the SF Chronicle. This guy
was fired because he faked a review of a concert. That is, he knew
what the scheduled program of music was and he wrote his review of the
evening without attending the concert. Unknown to him, the music
program had been changed at the last minute, and he was exposed. At
around the same time, Selvin allegedly wrote a review of a show at
Slims. Apparently he *was* there for the headline act, but not the
opener. Yet he included a brief review of the opening act. He, for
some reason, was not fired.
He rags on the Dead and Deadheads when it suits him, kisses ass to
members of the Dead when it suits him.
Larry
I read an interview of Nicky Hopkins a long time ago.
He said that sometimes playing live with QMS, the
guitars were a whole step out of tune!
He also said that the Dead invited him to join, but
he knew he would kill himself with drugs if he did
so he declined.
Mike
My 80+ year old parents have seen a lot of history. My mom describes
this Bush presidency and cabinet as the most harmful and corrupt bunch
of creeps to ever get the reins of this country. The rippling
effects of their rampage will be felt for a very long time.
LP
And killed himself with drugs elsewhere.
ND
Great thread, Joker. What About Me is certainly a politically charged
song. It even has some Dead content in one of the lines towards the
end... 'FEEL LIKE A STRANGER' in my own land, always on the run.
Something like that. Maybe as I read further down, someone will have
posted the lyrics to refresh my memory on that part.
This is where I go into grovel mode...
Who wants to help out a bro on dial-up? Or, to word that another way...
Will make up political slogans and ridicule Right Wingers for 'What About
Me' outtakes.
Joe (jo...@foxvalley.net)
I just got some great QMS...6.13.70, Oahu, and I'd be happy to burn
you a CD, but...it would be mp3 and I know you disdain free mp3s,
so...
(My copy is shnn or flac or some hi-fi shit like that, but my
reproductive capacity is mp3.)
Larry
> I just got some great QMS...6.13.70, Oahu, and I'd be happy to burn
> you a CD, but...it would be mp3 and I know you disdain free mp3s,
> so...
> (My copy is shnn or flac or some hi-fi shit like that, but my
> reproductive capacity is mp3.)
Ack. My house is a mess, and although I thought I had all my QMS in one
spot, I think I have that show, even though I couldn't find it in the few
most likely piles.
However, sounds like you need a lesson in burning. If you have Shns or
Flacs, you should easily be able to convert those into regular old Wav
files for burning. Maybe if you described your difficulty, someone could
explain how to easily overcome it.
Thanks for your offer. But, it's that outtakes CD I'd want. I mean...I
LOVE What About Me!
Oh. The one time I met Dino Valenti, I did think he was an egotistical
ass-hole, but hey, that had no effect on his ability to make music.
Joe
I didn't see it mentioned elsewhere, but I hope all Nicky Hopkins fans
have a copy of "Jamming With Edward" - the jamming sessions with
Hopkins, Ry Cooder, Charlie Watts and Bill Wyman - and a touch of
Jagger on harp & the occasional garbled vocal.
Back in college my friend & I referred to this record as the best
album the Stones never made - or something like that. The record is
brimming with high-energy jams, at times dripping with drunken
ecstasy, and always featuring the dynamic piano playing of "Edward"
Hopkins. This is one of my favorite party albums - most everyone has
no idea who it is, but all love it.
LP
So true. As far as pure, unadulturated Hopkins, Jamming With Edward
could just be it. I still have the record somewhere but I'm pretty
sure I wore the grooves off it in college so mabe it's just as well
that I don't know where it is.
ND
It came out on CD in recent years. I need to get one of those - all I
have now is a Maxell casette tape of my friend's LP copy.
LP
I am going to just say it......... I like "Dino's Song". Go ahead and
ridicule, I just liked the way it sounds - a simple pop song with a
catchy chord progression - sappy lyrics I could do without, but I like
it.
LP
"Dino's Song" is a flat out rocker, G
Nah...you aint wrong.
THATS classic Silver.
Now if Valenti got his paws on it....
it would probably suck.
Luckily he was in jail.
> I just got some great QMS...6.13.70, Oahu
Ahhh. I found my copy and it is indeed 6/13/70.
I think I'll toss it in the car, and listen to it on my way out to visit
the wildflowers today.
Joe
Ah good, someone else digs Dino's Song. Back in ye ole college daze,
I often put that song on for a "feel-good" Friday happy hour song.
Always sometime after the official Friday party opener song: Bertha
from the Skullf$%k
album.
LP