why the "spiral" light of Venus?

[James Pablos]

I've never understood that metaphor.

[Just Kidding]

On Sat, 30 Nov 2013 17:19:21 -0800 (PST), James Pablos
<james....@gmail.com> wrote:

>I've never understood that metaphor.

That's probably because it's not a metaphor.

[yoker]

Just Kidding, then what is it, if it's not a metaphor?

"Ask Hunter what it means" was a common answer around here at one time or another.

James, This may not help and probably won't, but read this blog about Venus and light but no GD content, it's about astrology:

http://www.planetwaves.net/astrologynews/1377901178.html

This link should work.

[sparksfly]

On Saturday, November 30, 2013 8:19:21 PM UTC-5, James Pablos wrote:
> I've never understood that metaphor.

I always thought it was an allusion to ham. I could be wrong.

[James Pablos]

On Saturday, November 30, 2013 11:42:56 PM UTC-5, Just Kidding wrote:

> That's probably because it's not a metaphor.

How so?

[Just Kidding]

Merriam-Webster defines a "metaphor" as:

"A figure of speech in which a word or phrase literally denoting one
kind of object or idea is used in place of another to suggest a
likeness or analogy between them."

There's no suggested analogy in the phrase "spiral light of venus",
which is a form of imagery, not metaphor. Hunter isn't comparing the
light of Venus to a spiral. The word "spiral" is merely a descriptive
adjective modifying the noun "light", just as you might refer to it as
a bright light or a piercing light.

[Just Kidding]

On Sun, 1 Dec 2013 03:32:02 -0800 (PST), yoker <yok...@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>On Saturday, November 30, 2013 11:42:56 PM UTC-5, Just Kidding wrote:
>> On Sat, 30 Nov 2013 17:19:21 -0800 (PST), James Pablos
>>
>> <james....@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> >I've never understood that metaphor.
>>
>>
>>
>> That's probably because it's not a metaphor.
>
>
>
>
>Just Kidding, then what is it, if it's not a metaphor?
>
>"Ask Hunter what it means" was a common answer around here at one time or another.

See my response to Pablos.

[James Pablos]

On Sunday, December 1, 2013 10:04:51 AM UTC-5, Just Kidding wrote:

> There's no suggested analogy in the phrase "spiral light of venus",
>
> which is a form of imagery, not metaphor. Hunter isn't comparing the
>
> light of Venus to a spiral. The word "spiral" is merely a descriptive
>
> adjective modifying the noun "light", just as you might refer to it as
>
> a bright light or a piercing light.

I'm not sure you understand figurative language. Of course there's a suggested analogy in that phrase: we can easily parse it into a simile such as "the light of Venus is like a spiral" or "the spiral-like light of Venus." As a metaphor, though, that analogy is only implied.

Insofar as the light cannot be understood literally as "spiral" -- at least not to my knowledge -- it's meaning must be figurative.

[sparksfly]

That line conjures the image of a Van Gogh painting in me, you know, Starry Night et. al.

[Tarp Skidoo]

In article <5532dc6b-0eb0-4f85...@googlegroups.com>,

http://www.lunarplanner.com/Images/Venus/Venus%20Morph.gif

[SK]

In article
<tarpalin-509EB8...@NEWS.NEWSGROUP-BINARIES.COM>,

That is all very interesting.

http://www.lunarplanner.com/HCpages/Venus.html

[James Pablos]

On Sunday, December 1, 2013 4:22:01 PM UTC-5, SK wrote:

> http://www.lunarplanner.com/HCpages/Venus.html

Looking at something like this, one can understand why it took humans so long to figure out the schematics of the solar system..

[James Pablos]

On Sunday, December 1, 2013 7:37:57 PM UTC-5, Band Beyond Desu wrote:

> "I've never metaphor I didn't like."
>

Huh?

[James Pablos]

On Sunday, December 1, 2013 10:23:05 PM UTC-5, Band Beyond Desu wrote:

> They don't do nonlinear in SWOH? Disgusted.

I vaguely remember Zippy the Pinhead. Sort of like Bloom County, but with an extra helping of LSD.

At any rate, the "spiral" question remains unanswered. :(

[SK]

In article <e454823b-ead8-4248...@googlegroups.com>,

Tarp Skidoo came close and that thing in the sky was definitely a
spiral..
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1234430/Mystery-spiral-blue-light
-display-hovers-Norway.html

[the Felonious Kidd]

On Saturday, November 30, 2013 5:19:21 PM UTC-8, James Pablos wrote:
> I've never understood that metaphor.

I know serious answers are passe around here but here goes...

the spiral light of Venus rising first and shinning *best*

"spiral" is mainly there for meter and it is less child's nursery rhyme than say "twinkling". We have Venus, the brightest light in the sky aside from the moon and named after the Roman goddess of love and beauty.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venus_%28mythology%29

Thus Venus shines "best" in two ways, literally the brightest and figuratively representing love. To me it always made perfect sense.

As always, should any member of your team be captured or killed, YMMV.

[James Pablos]

On Monday, December 2, 2013 11:23:18 AM UTC-5, the Felonious Kidd wrote:
> On Saturday, November 30, 2013 5:19:21 PM UTC-8, James Pablos wrote:
>
> > I've never understood that metaphor.
>
>
>
> I know serious answers are passe around here but here goes...
>
>
>
> the spiral light of Venus rising first and shinning *best*
>
>
>
> "spiral" is mainly there for meter and it is less child's nursery rhyme than say "twinkling". We have Venus, the brightest light in the sky aside from the moon and named after the Roman goddess of love and beauty.
>
>
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venus_%28mythology%29
>
>
>
> Thus Venus shines "best" in two ways, literally the brightest and figuratively representing love. To me it always made perfect sense.

Yes, Venus itself is the perfect symbol here and complements the song's themes well. It was the "spiral" that troubled me. You may be right that it is more for meter than anything else. That is, as a metaphor it doesn't make much sense. As a "stress-unstress" filler word, it works.

I also think it's there because Hunter blows his "rising" and "shining" wad later in the verse. If he switches either with "spiral" then the whole thing falls apart.

The shining light of Venus,
Rising first and spiraling best..

Ugh.

[the Felonious Kidd]

On Monday, December 2, 2013 9:50:11 AM UTC-8, James Pablos wrote:
> On Monday, December 2, 2013 11:23:18 AM UTC-5, the Felonious Kidd wrote:
>
> > On Saturday, November 30, 2013 5:19:21 PM UTC-8, James Pablos wrote:
> > > I've never understood that metaphor.
>

> > "spiral" is mainly there for meter and it is less child's nursery rhyme than say "twinkling". We have Venus, the brightest light in the sky aside from the moon and named after the Roman goddess of love and beauty.
> >

> > Thus Venus shines "best" in two ways, literally the brightest and figuratively representing love. To me it always made perfect sense.
>
> Yes, Venus itself is the perfect symbol here and complements the song's themes well. It was the "spiral" that troubled me. You may be right that it is more for meter than anything else. That is, as a metaphor it doesn't make much sense. As a "stress-unstress" filler word, it works.
>
> I also think it's there because Hunter blows his "rising" and "shining" wad later in the verse. If he switches either with "spiral" then the whole thing falls apart.

I confess that I never thought too much about the choice of the word "spiral". It always seemed to me that that line about "Venus rising first and shining best" was a statement about the desire for love and beauty being a constant, undeniable presence in human consciousness. In that context I can see how the word spiral be taken to mean "mesmerizing". Or perhaps if you are the sailor, the optimist, spiral means spiraling up.

"Now desire, contrary to general belief, is the most precious possession of man. It is the eternal flame of life; it is life itself." -Krishnamurti

[Edwin Hurwitz]

Before your time, kid.

[marcman]

Holy shit! It's orbit makes spirals! Who'dda thunk it!

Was that Cornell University in Ithaca, or Cornell College of Agriculture in Steubenville?

;)

[James Pablos]

On Saturday, December 7, 2013 8:29:33 AM UTC-5, marcman wrote:

> Holy shit! It's orbit makes spirals! Who'dda thunk it!

Sorta. But there's nothing unique to Venus in that regard. Do you know what the solar system looked like to Ptolemy?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0e/Cassini_apparent.jpg/609px-Cassini_apparent.jpg

[Edwin Hurwitz]

Here's a page which has an animated gif of our solar system that is very cool. Spirals abound.

http://brotherecho.com/2013/04/18/our-solar-system-is-speeding-through-space/

[yoker]

On Saturday, November 30, 2013 8:19:21 PM UTC-5, James Pablos wrote:

> I've never understood that metaphor.

Ask Hunter.

[yoker]

And he'll probably answer with "... it sounded good at the time... don't take my lyrics too seriously ..."

I think it would be very interesting if Robert Hunter would do a Q&A webcast program similar to David Lemieux' webcasts.
.

[yoker]

On Saturday, December 7, 2013 4:45:20 PM UTC-5, edwin wrote:
>
> Here's a page which has an animated gif of our solar system that is very cool. Spirals abound.
>
>
>
> http://brotherecho.com/2013/04/18/our-solar-system-is-speeding-through-space/

A very interesting theory.
I love this very cool animation.

[marcman]

Hunter's an incredibly private person. Almost a recluse. Is what I've been told.

[Just Kidding]

On Sat, 7 Dec 2013 15:35:14 -0800 (PST), yoker <yok...@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>On Saturday, November 30, 2013 8:19:21 PM UTC-5, James Pablos wrote:
>> I've never understood that metaphor.
>
>Ask Hunter.

And he'll tell you it's not a metaphor.

[Edwin Hurwitz]

In article <1228515174408171372...@News.Individual.NET>, Band Beyond Desu <t...@aiko.com> wrote:

> Hunter used to send out a limited circulation mini-email list for a while
> seven or eight years ago that Eddie Chapin, Katrinka(iirrc?), myself and
> some others used to be recipients of (and literally were forbidden to
> circulate to others, per Hunter's express wishes), on which he'd ruminate,
> masticate, offer poems and basically use as an almost daily diary at some
> points, as a sort of literary exercise and sounding board during an
> otherwise low/key period of his when he was encountering health issues.
> Then just as quickly as it started, the dispatches stopped when he felt
> like it a number of months later....

I used to get those! I wonder if I have any archived....

[Edwin Hurwitz]

Yeah, you can get into his trip pretty deep. A friend of mine is one of the emissaries. I remain a little skeptical.

[3jane.]

The Hunter missives from his blog I read were boring as hell, who gives a fuck if some old dude likes rowing?

[SK]

In article <edwin-AA7244....@news.eternal-september.org>,

Very nice, but that's not all. Yes, the sun speeds through space, but in
a rotation. I.e. it is spinning in our Milky Way. I think it takes 225
million years to go round. Plus, the galaxy we're in is moving away from
the Big Bang (and on collision course with Andromeda). So, very complex
movement...which the GIF shows.
SK.

[James Pablos]

On Sunday, December 8, 2013 12:53:36 AM UTC-5, edwin wrote:

> Yeah, you can get into his trip pretty deep. A friend of mine is one of the emissaries. I remain a little skeptical.

"It’s as though space-time is a cosmic hard drive and we are downloading spontaneous and dynamic experiences of novelty as we move through the vastness of our universe and all its dimensions."

Um, yeah. I should hope you would remain a little skeptical, Edwin. If nothing else, Brother Echo needs to work on his analogies.

[Ed Chapin]

On 12/08/2013 12:07 AM, Band Beyond Desu wrote:

>
> Hunter used to send out a limited circulation mini-email list for a while
> seven or eight years ago that Eddie Chapin, Katrinka(iirrc?), myself and
> some others used to be recipients of (and literally were forbidden to
> circulate to others, per Hunter's express wishes), on which he'd ruminate,
> masticate, offer poems and basically use as an almost daily diary at some
> points, as a sort of literary exercise and sounding board during an
> otherwise low/key period of his when he was encountering health issues.
> Then just as quickly as it started, the dispatches stopped when he felt
> like it a number of months later....
>

That would be Mr. Eddie Chapin to you, sir!

Ed

BTW, one of my former neighbors in Kennebunk recently turned me on to
this group, one of my favorite new musical avenues to traverse in recent
years :-)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3XsHMOEQGc

[Ed Chapin]

Actually, Douglas, I believe Edwin was referring to Brother Echo here,
and not Robert Hunter. I share his skepticism, as I do not generally
allot much time for self-help gurus, motivational speakers, TV
evangelists, and the like.

I honestly do not recall being part of any secret email list to which
Hunter dispensed daily wisdom. I exchanged several emails with him at
one point, all of a more personal nature, and to which I always received
a scholarly and gentlemanly reply. A class act, to be sure.

I do remember the blog/journal to which you refer, and have a somewhat
different take on it--a reaffirmation of humanity. That is, for one
reason or another, Hunter felt like sharing select parts of his
life/experience with the online world. Certain journal entries may have
seemed a bit mundane to any given reader, but one has to wonder why he
deemed them worthy of publication. If nothing else, perhaps they serve
simply as a reminder that the master wordsmith is as human as the rest
of us.

Ed

[Edwin Hurwitz]

Actually, I have no idea who brother echo is, but I was referring to Nassim Haramein. Who is worth checking out, but with skepticism kept handy.

[Rosebud]

On Saturday, November 30, 2013 at 8:19:21 PM UTC-5, James Pablos wrote:
> I've never understood that metaphor.

The word Lucifer is taken from the Latin Vulgate, which translates הֵילֵל as lucifer, meaning "the morning star, the planet Venus", or, as an adjective, "light-bringing".