Jamiroquai is still WACK
Jonseyboy
Of all the things to get ill at in this world...
You are channeling all of your aggression in to a retro band that missed?
I can understand if you don't want to buy the cd or maybe your pissed about a
commercial band getting so much credit on the MTV music awards (shocking!) but
there must be some serious issues in your life to be spending this much time
defending your point that you don't like a band that the popular majority
likes...
How bout the spice girls? Nelson Mandella said that meeting them was one of
the most important moments in his life! They missed way bigger that Jay and
the boys and NM gave them props!
Fly on,
cj
LetDaShakinBeginRightHereYoBeStandinOna:
( ( @
( (( *\/| |\
( ( ( ( ( (( _/ L
( ( ( ( ( ( ((((((({({({{{epICENTer}}})})})))))))))))))) ) ) ) ) ) )
Susan Coffey
I don't mean to butt into your argument, but I happen to agree with Dub and
the original post about this topic.
In terms of music, Jamiroquai is not any different from the other "acid
jazz" bands that are out there. The chord changes and progressions are
generic to the genre, and you can only hear the same styles, progressions
and changes being played so many times before you get sick of it.
The thing that makes them slightly different from any other band out in
their genre today is that they reach back a bit (to Stevie) whereas other
bands in their style seem to play off of each other. More than one person
I know has heard Jamiroquai (not knowing who they were) and asked "Is this
Stevie?" (I cringed and promptly corrected them).
I also happen to believe that Jamiroquai is suffering from a bit of an
identity crisis- they have three different mixes out of some of their
stuff- the record mix, the club mix and the alternative mix.
Funk is not dead, and I certainly don't believe that it is dying. People
like George, Bootsy, Bernie, bands like EWF and TOP and other originals
continue to do their thing, pack concerts and sell millions of albums. I
have managed to turn on many a young person to old stuff- and gotten them
to go out and get hooked on old funk. We happen to be living in a time
though that is much different from the 1970's. Music is now very
commercial and over produced to sell a product. Jamiroquai happens to fall
into that category. (Anyone remember The Red Hot Chili Peppers first
effort (Freakey Styley that was produced by George Clinton? Now look where
they are . . .)
Dub, I gotta agree- you don't even have to see them live- just hear the
records- Jamiroquai doesn't have a fraction of the energy, spontaneity,
craziness, funkiness or political risquee that the original bands did. To
hear the funk, you must search for it . . .
One of the best distinctions I have seen posted to this group is the
difference between funk and funky (I believe posted by Shag)- lots of
things are funky. They make you move from time to time, and they may get
into a groove, but don't stay there. Jamiroquai isn't always funky, and
they certainly aren't original. To even be accused of biting Stevie proves
this. They certainly aren't "funk". I define funk as when I put the album
in, I must dance- no matter how many times I have heard it. Funk is
timeless and ageless. Jamiroquai is not.
Remember though, those are my thoughts- I'm not about to go blasting anyone
for their personal tastes . . .
~Dan "Java" Coffey
Dub Raider
Christjahn writes:
>it's not the 70's anymore so in terms of live acts you take what >you get and
jamiroquai is a strong mix of, yes FUNK, soul, r&b, >reggae, even rock, check
them live , Bootsy has
Regardless of who is biting whom and what role influences have in the shaping
of someone's music, I stand by my contention that Jamiroquai are strictly
lightweight. So let's just agree to disagree; I've already said I checked
them live and found them absolutely run-of-the-mill and uninspiring.
As for the "you take what you get" philosophy, that's a pretty sad state of
affairs, don't you think? I refuse to succumb to that notion, and I think we
need either to expand the definition of "funk" or to do away with it
altogether -- after all, "funk," in its original funkadelicized and discofied
form from the 70s, is now essentially a dead music. But the attitude, the
intention, the FEEL is still alive in many places and only needs to be sought
out to dig it; I listed a few of the groups doing it, and there are others on
the fringes as well (check Ben Harper or James Blood Ulmer or even Skunk
Anansie or Bjork [!]). To me, Jamiroquai simply does not supply a shred of
the energy that the best funk or the best MUSIC is known for.
DinoVacume
A lot of people are still bitching about my original post on Jamiroquai. I am
glad to have stirred so much s**t!!!! I look through all of the posts and
there has been some intelligent debate, and some driveling idiocy too!!!! I am
going to respond to some of the more intelligent points that have been raised.
Criticizing Jamiroquai for not being orginal w/ chord changes is almost
anti-funk. Funk was born of sitting on one chord and driving it to death.
Additionaly there selection of key and chord changes are just as funky as EWF
ever was . . . "If I like it I Do It" is a great example.
Crtitcizing them for biting Stevie (a genious) and others is like saying you
can't show your influences when you produce your own music. COME ON!!!! The
new Janet Jackson album at times sounds, to me, like they are COPYING
P-Funk!!! Thank you Jimmy and Terry! Influences are to waved like a flag if
for no other reasone than to turn on some 15 yr old to chk out Songs in the
Key of Life, or any other classix. S**t, the Bar-kays all but copied Sly and
the Family Stone and Funkadelic in the early seventies. Additionaly, JK has
an album (sony) out in Japan that is a compilation of songs he choose that
reflect his influences: O'Jays, EWF, S&TFS and many more! Influences are
beautiful, show em off, and mix them w/ your tist. IMHO Jay does this very
well.
To say Jamiroquai is not a band or is untallented is ludicrous. The bass
player is solid as a rock (I love Bootsy first and foremost, but I still give
credit where it's due!) Jay can sing and those of you who criticized his
range as his main flaw are foolish and only show your lack of musical
understanding. Additionally, since when did virtouosity become important for
being funky. The drummer for Ohio players steps on his crank now and then,
but I would NEVER say he aint foonky!! As far as Jamiroquai being Jays
commercial vehicle, bulls**t, almost everysone is credited to JK AND multiple
baand members. Yeah, I wish more people were listening to Fishbone too, but I
am glad kids are getting better musical influences these days, like
Jamiroquai, than they were 5 yrs ago! I hope more future musicians get off
the ground because of Jamiroquai than Niravana
Lets criticize!!!!! DAMNIT DAMNIT DAMNIT . . .JK PLEASE get another producer.
That boy needs to take those big ass hats off when he is mixing in the studio.
The quality of the mix is FRUSTRATINGLY bad. I am suprised that it hasn't
been brought up yet. The bass frequencies are overbaering and more MURKY than
a Florida swamp. I am all about hard bass, but lets get some clarity in
there!. There isn't much phase distortion in the middle (thankfully) but
the high end of the spectrum is practically non-existant!!!!! I beleive the
poor mix in ALL his albums is a large contributor to his slow success in
America.
Well, nuff said . . .
Flame on flamers
Matt
Sam Pennacchio
Hey, come talk to me in five years when this group of shams won't be able
to GIVE their friggin's records away? Remember, for every 70's funk band
that earned cult status today, fifteen other shitheel bands bit the big
one! Hey, it ain't original, and being technically adept at your
instrument don't make you a good songwriter! Yeah, it's the funkiest thing
on radio today (for those who listen to radio), but it's digestible funk
pablum. Too fucking easy to digest! If this band at least attempted to
take funk to the next level, I could accept them, but they're just
rehashing the same shit over and over again, and doing it worse! you do
make a good point though, and that is that this shit may inspire younger,
more able songwriters to create something fresh that will take funk to the
next level. The 90's had fishbone, the chilis, Medeski martin and wood, the
brand new heavies, and others, but it's time for someone else to take this
sound into the 90's. Hey, who knows, maybe the new direction in funky
music begins with dj's like the herbaliser and dj shadow....
DinoVacume <dinov...@aol.com> wrote in article
<19971111165...@ladder02.news.aol.com>...
Mark Hilgenberg
I like them a bit but the drummer has got to go, they need some one with funk.
Mark
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94-10-24
www.lp.org
DinoVacume wrote in message <19971111165...@ladder02.news.aol.com>...
Christjahn
what? derrick is tight to tight . . .crucial part of the bands sound and it's
vibe can't take him away . . .by the way . . Jamiroquai won the best album
award at the MOBO (Music Of Black Origin)
awards,
BBC Radio 1 stated . . .Jamiroquai won Best Album for "Travelling Without
Moving" - a real
honour for frontman JK who told THE NET they've had flak from some
people who think they're white men doing black music: "The black
audience I have is a very important audience to me, y'know and there's
alot of street people out there who like Jamiroquai and they continue to
like it because it tries to stay true and you gotta remember from the
days when rap and funk and back in the 70's and early 80's alot of the
stuff was Stateside and it's very difficult for people over in this
country to kinda do it and be taken seriously for it"
JEDI RED 5
all's I know is that jamiroquai is a BAND that plays funky dance music with a
singer... and if there were more of that out there, maybe the airwaves wouldnt
be so dominated by sampling rap groups (nothing wrong with that., as long as
its not the only thing happening)
I think ya gotta be glad that Jamiroquai is out there doing there thing and
even happier if it gets really popular in the states, because that would mean a
return to a more acoustic kind of funk that has been missing on the scene for a
long time.
I also think that the band is getting slammed because they are mostly whiteboys
from the UK and not brothas from the USA. I mean if Travelling without Moving
was the latest album by:
earth wind and fire or stevie wonder, or prince, or some other well known
artist from the states I have a feeling it would have been much less likely to
be recieved as it has.
They're not the greatest.... but if you cant recognize the FUNK flag being
waved high above the band then you might be color blind...
and thats all i gots to say 'bout that!
but uh....... how 'bout the latest bootsy album? fresh outta "p"
university.... its FONKY!!!!!!!! check it out. Too bad its not released in
the states.
Sam Pennacchio
I definitely agree with the fact that Travelling Without Moving wouldn't be
slammed nearly as bad if it were released by Kool and the Gang or Earth
Wind and Fire, but I would say that that would be mainly because many fans
of these groups aren't able to be objective enough to admit that they put
out some weak stuff. Face it, Jamiroquai just sucks, but it's true that at
the very least, they ARE exposing the masses to a groovy sound, and some of
them may search for bands with a similar sound that can write a song! Hey,
I'm with whatever it takes to get more bands recording funk. If I gotta
listen to 10 shitty new funk bands to find just one great band, that's fine
by me. They serve a purpose (hopefully), but they still can't write a good
or original lick to save their lives. The Greyboy Allstars are also a new
band, but they at least have enough courage to put their own stamp on what
they do. I was listening to Greyboy's "West Coast Boogaloo" and Donald
Byrd's "Street Lady" at the same time on my cd player on random (I recently
bought both records so wasn't yet that familiar with the tunes), and I
swear that I could not distinguish which songs were written in the 70's and
which one's were from the 90's. Now you know that wouldn't happen if you
put on Stevie Wonder's Innervisions and Travelling Without Moving at the
same time, cos Stevie just never released garbage like what Jamiroquai's
putting out. But again, if they get others to record better stuff, then as
far as I'm concerned, Jamiroquai's the best thing to happen to funk since
Prince or Rick James.
JEDI RED 5 <jedi...@aol.com> wrote in article
<19971201091...@ladder02.news.aol.com>...
Jodin Trocheck
When I put Jamiroquai in the CD changer with classic funk and it comes on
you know what I say? "Sounds like Jamiroquai". The band has their own sound
like they should. If you wanna hear a copycat funk band go check out Dag
(it's good, but not very original). Jamiroquai is similiar to AWB in that
they are getting dissed for things beyond their control. They are not
P-Funk, not JB, not Kool, not anything but themselves. The most obvious
influence is Stevie but they don't really wear any other sounds on their
sleave. I know I've made reference that if Jamiroquai was around back in
the day they wouldn't get dissed, but that's not to say I would want them
to be timewarped! Grey-Boy All-Stars are cool but not in the same league
yet as Jamiroquai.
I say stop all the dissin of Jamiroquai until you have listened thoroughly
to "Emergency On Planet Earth" (their best) and "Space Cowboy" (good
sophomore effort). Again, we all seem to holding this band to a awfully
high standard - give it some time - let's see if they can put together a
10+ year career and then we can compare their musical catalogs. Comparing
them to any classic funk band is silly. That's like comparing Oasis to the
Beatles.
In article <01bcfef3$0c6e6240$5e37eccd@default>, "Sam Pennacchio"
<stim...@total.net> wrote:
> I definitely agree with the fact that Travelling Without Moving wouldn't be
> slammed nearly as bad if it were released by Kool and the Gang or Earth
> Wind and Fire, but I would say that that would be mainly because many fans
> of these groups aren't able to be objective enough to admit that they put
> out some weak stuff. Face it, Jamiroquai just sucks, but it's true that at
> the very least, they ARE exposing the masses to a groovy sound, and some of
> them may search for bands with a similar sound that can write a song! Hey,
> I'm with whatever it takes to get more bands recording funk. If I gotta
> listen to 10 shitty new funk bands to find just one great band, that's fine
> by me. They serve a purpose (hopefully), but they still can't write a good
> or original lick to save their lives. The Greyboy Allstars are also a new
> band, but they at least have enough courage to put their own stamp on what
> they do. I was listening to Greyboy's "West Coast Boogaloo" and Donald
> Byrd's "Street Lady" at the same time on my cd player on random (I recently
> bought both records so wasn't yet that familiar with the tunes), and I
> swear that I could not distinguish which songs were written in the 70's and
> which one's were from the 90's. Now you know that wouldn't happen if you
> put on Stevie Wonder's Innervisions and Travelling Without Moving at the
> same time, cos Stevie just never released garbage like what Jamiroquai's
> putting out. But again, if they get others to record better stuff, then as
> far as I'm concerned, Jamiroquai's the best thing to happen to funk since
> Prince or Rick James.
--
----> cruising along at 300bps of neck-snapping luxury
----> the master of the ArpaNet - jo...@myself.com
Msclvr718
>I say stop all the dissin of Jamiroquai until you have listened thoroughly
>to "Emergency On Planet Earth"
I have. Just doesn't knock me out. They try TOO hard to be "original" and
"different".
Anyone remember the group Wild Cherry? Voted best R&B group in the 70's OVER
Earth Wind & Fire? Giving something a name does not make it the thing. Sorry.
Isdatu Jimbo
On 2 Dec 97 07:19:48 GMT, "Sam Pennacchio" <stim...@total.net> wrote:
"but they still can't write a good
>or original lick to save their lives."
Hey, I agree that TWM is their weakest album, but check "Too Young To
Die" or "When You Gonna Learn" from the first album, and "Just Another
Story" and "Mr. Moon" from the second. Those tunes are wicked.
Still can't understand why the single releases are some terrible
shitty electronic remixes, but maybe they don't have the control in
that department, or they just plain want more money now and are
selling out. Those Ferraris don't run on thin air, I guess.
Maybe if they carry on like this, I'll never buy any more of their
stuff, but live and the first two albums, they kicked butt.
Issy.
Sam Pennacchio
For the record, the Greyboy Allstars "West Coast Boogaloo" record features
the great Fred Wesley of the J.B's that being said, how can anyone
POSSIBLY put a bunch of shitheels like Jamiroquai in the same category, or
worse, say that they are some how better or more innovative than greyboy
and his band of VETERANS? C'mon, you can't possibly be serious?
Jodin Trocheck <jo...@myself.com> wrote in article
<jodin-ya08008000...@news.apk.net>...
>
> When I put Jamiroquai in the CD changer with classic funk and it comes on
> you know what I say? "Sounds like Jamiroquai". The band has their own
sound
> like they should. If you wanna hear a copycat funk band go check out Dag
> (it's good, but not very original). Jamiroquai is similiar to AWB in that
> they are getting dissed for things beyond their control. They are not
> P-Funk, not JB, not Kool, not anything but themselves. The most obvious
> influence is Stevie but they don't really wear any other sounds on their
> sleave. I know I've made reference that if Jamiroquai was around back in
> the day they wouldn't get dissed, but that's not to say I would want them
> to be timewarped! Grey-Boy All-Stars are cool but not in the same league
> yet as Jamiroquai.
>
> I say stop all the dissin of Jamiroquai until you have listened
thoroughly
> > by me. They serve a purpose (hopefully), but they still can't write a
good
Jodin Trocheck
In article <01bd0537$736b6480$3574cdcd@default>, "Sam Pennacchio"
<stim...@total.net> wrote:
> For the record, the Greyboy Allstars "West Coast Boogaloo" record features
> the great Fred Wesley of the J.B's that being said, how can anyone
> POSSIBLY put a bunch of shitheels like Jamiroquai in the same category, or
> worse, say that they are some how better or more innovative than greyboy
> and his band of VETERANS? C'mon, you can't possibly be serious?
Serious, yes. I saw Greyboy All-Stars and dug them. They play a real nice
loose jazz-funk-hippy thing. They were smoking on some old Kool & the Gang
and a few jazz standards. The guy on the organ had skillz.
When I put them "below" Jamiroquai I meant on a music business level, not
as musicians or songwriters. As far as I can tell the band members looked
in their mid-twenties. Fred Wesley was featured on their CD, he is not part
of the band. That's like saying Mudbone and Bootsy are *in* SHAG.
Jamiroquai has three major label records out, a few hits, and has been
selling out big venues for three years. In the overall scope of things
Jamiroquai is simply *bigger*, whether you think they are talented or not.
And as far as GreyBoy - these guys can play but they aint no "All-Stars" in
the vein of veteran funk musicians with storied carreers of their own. Like
I said, they are young and talented but the name is misleading.
Skoobie Nowinski
>Serious, yes. I saw Greyboy All-Stars and dug them. They play a real nice
>loose jazz-funk-hippy thing. They were smoking on some old Kool & the Gang
>and a few jazz standards. The guy on the organ had skillz.
>
>When I put them "below" Jamiroquai I meant on a music business level, not
>as musicians or songwriters. As far as I can tell the band members looked
>in their mid-twenties. Fred Wesley was featured on their CD, he is not part
>of the band. That's like saying Mudbone and Bootsy are *in* SHAG.
>Jamiroquai has three major label records out, a few hits, and has been
>selling out big venues for three years. In the overall scope of things
>Jamiroquai is simply *bigger*, whether you think they are talented or not.
>
>And as far as GreyBoy - these guys can play but they aint no "All-Stars" in
>the vein of veteran funk musicians with storied carreers of their own. Like
>I said, they are young and talented but the name is misleading.
>
Have to disagree. I've watched the Greyboy Allstars develop and
they frankly occupy a space altogether different from more traditional
pop outfits like Jamiroquai-- they have an old school professionalism,
discipline, and talent in the mold of the James Brown bands. Closer to
jazz musicians in their understanding of the roots of their craft, and
it's evident in their discs and shows. No disrespect intended to
Jamiroquai.
The youth thing here is a strawman argument. Joshua Redman is
young too-- the point being? And, though it really makes little
difference, Karl Denson has been around and playing for years and years,
even if he's only recently come to prominence-- the other band members
fit the "young lions" bill better. Karl has been around the block a few
times, and is certainly a "veteran funk musician," though one certainly
still in the process of building his own "storied career."
Which is why I think it is misleading to claim that Wesley's
presence on West Coast Boogaloo is like claiming Bootsy is "in" Shag.
If you think that's the case, you must not have been listening too
closely to the music. I've seen the Greyboys perform with other
"veterans," including Melvin Sparks, and it's abundantly clear that
these legends consider Karl a colleague and a contemporary, and very
much carrying the torch for the tradition they've established. It's the
same music pushed forward a step or two, not a knockoff of some sort. I
don't see any inconsistency in placing them in the lineage and league of
"veteran funk musicians with storied careers of their own," or anything
misleading in the name laying claim to that tradition, though it's
clearly tongue-in-cheek.
Of course, you don't need to agree. But you might take a peek
at the props Wesley gives them in the liner notes for their latest disc,
and have a listen, too. Jamiroquai is certainly bigger in terms of
success-- so are the Foo Fighters. If I had to cast a vote between all
three, I know which one I believe is making a measured and meaningful
contribution to the genre of which they are a part...
-skoob