Woody Guthrie: Deportees
Gary Annable
Deportees is subtitled "Plane Wreck at Los Gatos". While visiting
friends in Northern California last week, I passed through Los Gatos and
I'm curious if anybody has any information about the incident the song
describes.
Thanks,
Gary Annable
Stephen Suffet
Dear Gary:
This was the subject of a thread begun by Joe Offer back in
January. You can search it on DejaNews, but here are the bare details
from Joe's original posting:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 01:24:14 -0800
From: Joe Offer <Joe-...@msn.com>
Newsgroups: rec.music.folk
Subject: Re: happy?
The New York Times of January 29, 1948 reported the wreck of a
"charter plane carrying 28 Mexican farm workers from Oakland to the El
Centro, CA, Deportation Center....The crash occurred 20 miles west of
Coalinga, 75 miles from Fresno."
I got out my California map book, and found a Los Gatos Road
and Los Gatos Creek northwest of Coalinga, near the Fresno/San Benito
county line. That's one of the most desolate areas of California, and
I'm sure it was even more desolate in 1948. In Summer, the hills there
are brown and forbidding, and the heat oppressive. That's how I
pictured the crash site.
However, the crash took place in January, and in January those
hills west of Coalinga are a beautiful green, splendid with
wildflowers. Perhaps it issome slight consolation that these poor
people died in a place of breathtaking beauty.
May they rest in peace, and may we never forget them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Assuming that the information is correct, the crash did not take
place near the town of Los Gatos, but at the desolate place described
above. Guthrie's words say "The sky plane caught fire over Los Gatos
Canyon..." and I would conclude that is what that area is called.
Woody originally performed the song soon after the crash as a
nearly monotonous chant, kind of a proto-rap. The beautiful melody
with which we are all familiar was added by Martin Hoffman about ten
year later. By that time Woody was seriously ill, and I doubt that he
ever sung the Hoffman tune. I am certain, however, that he heard many
others sing it for his benefit and enjoyment.
Kindest regards,
Steve Suffet
Bev and Jerry Praver
Gary Annable wrote:
>
> Deportees is subtitled "Plane Wreck at Los Gatos". While visiting
> friends in Northern California last week, I passed through Los Gatos and
> I'm curious if anybody has any information about the incident the song
> describes.
>
> Thanks,
> Gary Annable
The Plane Wreck at Los Gatos was not in the city of Los Gatos but in Los
Gatos Canyon outside of Coalinga, CA off of Interstate 5.
Bev Praver
Bob Norton
Wrong Los Gatos. The one the plane crashed in is near the Mexican Border.
In article <347880...@istar.ca>, gann...@istar.ca says...
Joe Kesselman, yclept Keshlam
In <3478DE...@thegrid.net>, Bev and Jerry Praver <Bev....@thegrid.net> writes:
>The Plane Wreck at Los Gatos was not in the city of Los Gatos but in Los
>Gatos Canyon outside of Coalinga, CA off of Interstate 5.
Confirmation in the lyrics: "The sky plane caught fire over Los Gatos Canyon..."
Eileen Fisher
Here is some info paraphrased from the songbook "Carry It On"(Simon and
Schuster 1985) The Plane Crashed in Los Gatos Mexico. The passengers were
migrant workers who entered the US illeaglly. The newspaper article which
was WG's source didn't mention any of the victims' names. From the copyright
in the songbook page the incident likely took place in 1960-61 or earlier.
The only thing I would add to this is about the song itself -- ever notice
an echo of John Milton in it?
E.Fis...@worldnet.att.net
Gary Annable wrote in message <347880...@istar.ca>...
Yet Another Steve
In article <19971213011...@ladder02.news.aol.com>,
gare...@aol.com (GARELICK) wrote:
> I believe the song is MUCH older than 1960-61, as I learned it at Camp
> Kinderland in upstate New York in 1958; it described a plane crash of Mexican
> migrant farmworkers that probably occurred in the 1940s. Of course, Woody
> Guthrie composed the song, but I doubt if he was doing much recording by 1961
> (he died in 1967). It was more likely recorded by, among others, Joan Baez,
> sometime around 1961. (And Los Gatos, California, probably didn't even exist
> in the 40s; it's now a bedroom community outside of San Jose. I think you're
> referring to Los Gatos, Mexico).
The plane crash occurred on January 29, 1948, near the Los Gatos in
California. Guthrie wrote the song the same year. The full history of the
incident, and the song, can be found in unreadably tiny italic print at
http://www.geocities.com/Nashville/3448/deportee.html.
Now, if anyone can tell me what the hell "rott'ning" means, I'd be most
grateful, that's bugged me for years.
Steve
--
Death to Junk Email! http://www.senate.gov/~murkowski/commercialemail/
GARELICK
I believe the song is MUCH older than 1960-61, as I learned it at Camp
Kinderland in upstate New York in 1958; it described a plane crash of Mexican
migrant farmworkers that probably occurred in the 1940s. Of course, Woody
Guthrie composed the song, but I doubt if he was doing much recording by 1961
(he died in 1967). It was more likely recorded by, among others, Joan Baez,
sometime around 1961. (And Los Gatos, California, probably didn't even exist
in the 40s; it's now a bedroom community outside of San Jose. I think you're
referring to Los Gatos, Mexico).
GUS GARELICK
Lstuder
re Deportees- garelick writes:
> it described a plane crash of Mexican
>migrant farmworkers that probably occurred in the 1940s
it right.
LArry (Lstuder @ aol.com)
John Fereira
Mexican
>migrant farmworkers that probably occurred in the 1940s. Of course, Woody
>Guthrie composed the song, but I doubt if he was doing much recording by
1961
>(he died in 1967). It was more likely recorded by, among others, Joan
Baez,
>sometime around 1961. (And Los Gatos, California, probably didn't even
exist
>in the 40s; it's now a bedroom community outside of San Jose. I think
you're
>referring to Los Gatos, Mexico).
As a former Los Gatos, California resident I assure you that the
town existed in the 40's. I used to work in a restaurant/bar
downtown called Mt. Charlies that was named in tribute of a
local historical character from the 1800's. I also ran sound for
a band around that time that often played in Mt.Charlies saloon.
That venue had some great bluegrass, rock and folk bands. Juice
Newton used to play there quite frequently.
John Fereira
ja...@cornell.edu
Stephen Suffet
Gary Annable wrote:
>
> Deportees is subtitled "Plane Wreck at Los Gatos". While visiting
> friends in Northern California last week, I passed through Los Gatos and
> I'm curious if anybody has any information about the incident the song
> describes.
>
> Thanks,
> Gary Annable
Dear Gary et al.----
This is truly a frequently asked question.
"Deportees" is about a 1948 plane crash in Los Gatos Canyon about
20 miles outside Coalinga, California. The crash did _not_ occur near
the town of Los Gatos.
Woody Guthrie wrote the lyrics almost immediately after hearing
about the disaster. His original tune (if it can be called that) was a
nearly monotonous chant. Maybe Woody was into hip-hop 45 years too
early! :-)
A singer named Martin Hoffman published a hauntingly beautiful
melody for Woody's lyrics in 1958. That's the "Deportees" tune with
which we are all familiar. The song very quickly became a folk
standard. One of the first persons to record it was Cisco Houston,
Woody's long-time sidekick. There have been at least a dozen covers
since.
By 1958 Woody's medical condition had deteriorated to the point
that it is unlikely he ever sang the Hoffman tune --- at least not
with people listening. I have been assured from three different first-
hand accounts that Woody did hear others sing the Hoffman tune to him
and that he liked it.
I have reposted below a message from Joe Offer earlier this year.
It fills in a few of the details about the Los Gatos Canyon crash.
Regards,
Steve Suffet
"We're folksingers. We don't need no stinkin' make-up!"
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 01:24:14 -0800
From: Joe Offer <Joe-...@msn.com>
Newsgroups: rec.music.folk
Subject: Re: happy?
The New York Times of January 29, 1948 reported the wreck of a
"charter plane carrying 28 Mexican farm workers from Oakland to the El
Centro, CA, Deportation Center....The crash occurred 20 miles west of
Coalinga, 75 miles from Fresno."
I got out my California map book, and found a Los Gatos Road
and Los Gatos Creek northwest of Coalinga, near the Fresno/San Benito
county line. That's one of the most desolate areas of California, and
I'm sure it was even more desolate in 1948. In Summer, the hills there
are brown and forbidding, and the heat oppressive. That's how I
pictured the crash site.
However, the crash took place in January, and in January those
hills west of Coalinga are a beautiful green, splendid with
wildflowers. Perhaps it issome slight consolation that these poor
people died in a place of breathtaking beauty.
May they rest in peace, and may we never forget them.
-Joe in Sacramento (with apologies to Abby Sale)-
Goodbye to my Juan, goodbye, Rosalita
Adios mis amigos, Jesus y Maria
You won't have a name when you ride the big airplane
All they will call you will be deportees.
-Woody Guthrie, 1948-
Peter Overly
In article <66u56r$i...@newsstand.cit.cornell.edu>, ja...@cornell.edu (John
Fereira) wrote:
Deportee was a poem written by Woody. Years later (mid 50s?) it was put
to music by Marty Hoffman, who, along with Dick Barker up here in Jackson
Hole, were a strong influence on Judy Collins as she entered the folk
realm.
Peter Overly
pov...@wyoming.com
Michael Black
On Sat, 13 Dec 1997, Peter Overly wrote:
[stuff deleted]
>
>
> Deportee was a poem written by Woody. Years later (mid 50s?) it was put
> to music by Marty Hoffman, who, along with Dick Barker up here in Jackson
> Hole, were a strong influence on Judy Collins as she entered the folk
> realm.
>
> Peter Overly
> pov...@wyoming.com
>
>
Is Marty Hoffman the one Judy Collins sings about in "Song for Martin"
on True Stories and Other Dreams?
Michael
Tom Nelligan
In <Steve_Hoffmann-1212971822410001@tcp/ipann.sp.trw.com>
Steve_H...@SPAM-FWDED2POSTMASTERSqmail4.nba.trw.com (Yet Another
Steve) writes:
>Now, if anyone can tell me what the hell "rott'ning" means, I'd be
>most grateful, that's bugged me for years.
I used to wonder about that line too. A while back someone posted an
explanation in this newsgroup, which said that at the time there was a
process of disposing of surplus oranges (presumably to keep consumer
prices high) by dumping them in piles, covering them with the tar
derivative called creosote to make them inedible lest someone salvage
them, and letting them rot. Hence Woody's line, "the oranges are
rott'ning in the creosote dumps". Maybe someone, like the original
poster, can provide further details.
--Tom Nelligan
MIKE REGENSTREIF
Yes he is.
BTW, when I first knew Cathy Fink, about 1972 or '73 when she came to
Montreal to study at McGill, she was singing a song that she had written about
Martin Hoffman when she'd spent some time on the same Navajo reservation that
Hoffman had been working at before he killed himself.
Mike Regenstreif
"Folk Roots/Folk Branches" on CKUT in Montreal
mre...@vax2.concordia.ca
sayan bhattacharyya
Tom Nelligan <nell...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
>I used to wonder about that line too. A while back someone posted an
>explanation in this newsgroup, which said that at the time there was a
>process of disposing of surplus oranges (presumably to keep consumer
>prices high) by dumping them in piles, covering them with the tar
>derivative called creosote to make them inedible lest someone salvage
>them, and letting them rot.
Just think of it. Millions of people starve to death in the third
world, many children in the third world has never seen an orange
in their lives, and these people set about destroying oranges to
"keep consumer prices high" ....
Peter Overly
In article <Pine.GSO.3.94.971213...@Stratus.CAM.ORG>,
Michael Black <blac...@CAM.ORG> wrote:
> On Sat, 13 Dec 1997, Peter Overly wrote:
> [stuff deleted]
> >
> >
> > Deportee was a poem written by Woody. Years later (mid 50s?) it was put
> > to music by Marty Hoffman, who, along with Dick Barker up here in Jackson
> > Hole, were a strong influence on Judy Collins as she entered the folk
> > realm.
> >
> > Peter Overly
> > pov...@wyoming.com
> >
> >
> Is Marty Hoffman the one Judy Collins sings about in "Song for Martin"
> on True Stories and Other Dreams?
>
> Michael
Michael,
I don't know. Marty was Dick's best friend in the Colorado. Marty
committed suicide later, in Arizona I believe. Judy talks about both men
in her 87 autobio. Good catch. I'll ask Dick.
Peter
EJRen
To fill in the last detail, I'll report something Pete Seeger told me a number
of years ago. Unfortunately, a few years after composing the beautiful melody
for "Plane Wreck," Martin Hoffman killed himself. ----------- Ed Renehan
secret muse
> >
> > By 1958 Woody's medical condition had deteriorated to the point
> >that it is unlikely he ever sang the Hoffman tune --- at least not
> >with people listening. I have been assured from three different first-
> >hand accounts that Woody did hear others sing the Hoffman tune to him
> >and that he liked it.
well,he did sorta sing it.one person heard it.
john cohen told me in an informal interview that he had wheeled woody
into the folksong '59 concert put on by lomax.he had many stark
recollections of an amazing evening,partly documented on one of the
first l.p.s i ever bought & loved (United Artists,oddly enough).
as pete sang the song onstage(not on the album,alas)woody was digging
it,quietly mouthing along the words.john,sitting next to him,had the
fondest realization of a precious moment, as a great poem turned into a
great song before a throng at the cusp of a most exciting time in the
folk sphere.
pvc
> > "the blues ain't no cause for jumpin'...
- the blues is just by itself." -SON HOUSE
http://www.megasaver.com/page2/ad4.html
Derek R. Larson
In article <671btf$d2m$1...@news.eecs.umich.edu>,
I can weigh in here...these practices were all started as part of the New
Deal. Specifically, the Agricultural Adjustment Administration (AAA) set
production limits on a number of farm commodities in order to keep prices
up-- farm prices were low *before* the 1929 crash and people were
increasing production throughout the 1920s to keep their income steady.
Wheat was especially a problem. At any rate, one of the first AAA
programs out the gate in 1933 was the concept of paying farmers *not* to
farm, thus reducing supply and raising prices so farmers could afford to
stay in business-- otherwise everyone would quit farming and there'd be
widespread shortages. People were paid not to plant, paid to dump milk,
paid to slaughter pigs and destry the pork, and of course paid to dump
citrus crops also. The food had to be rendered inedible or the
market-adjusting effect would be lost. It angered a lot of people in 1933
also. But some folks will argue that the AAA saved a large chunk of
American agriculture as well. Some of those programs are still with us in
varied forms today.
-drl
--
________________________________________________________________________
Derek R. Larson Indiana University Department of History
"Eastward I go by force, but Westward I go free!" -H. D. Thoreau
-----------------------php.indiana.edu/~drlarson------------------------
Larry Flanigan
these perhaps needed programs of yesteryear have become today's pork.
THIS is the pork we need to throw out today! Larry**
DEfromGA
I found a version of this in my collection recorded by, as someone mentioned,
Joan Baez.
I would post all the words but I don't know if space allows here. E-mail me if
you would like a copy (after the holidays, please).
...the crops are all in and the lettuce is rotting
the oranges are piled in their creosote dumps ...
Thank you all for the info and history. I was unaware.
Richard L. Hess
Donna,
This has long been a favorite song of mine.
Interesting that you mention Joan's fine version...there is one thing
her version does to confuse me, however:
In Joan's version (Blessed Are EP - 1971), many of the lyrics have
been changed from the way Judy Collins sang it in 1964 (#3) and the
way Priscilla Herdman sang it in 1983 (Seasons of Change) (these two
are similar).
For example, in the example you cite below, the first line on the
other two recordings has "peaches" instead of "lettuce." On another
verse, Joan emphasizes the word "died" and repeats it far more often
than the other versions I've heard.
One bit of speculation I recall hearing that these changes might have
been made to better support Cesar Chavez and the UFW, but I'm not at
all sure of my source...it is one of those things just rattling around
between my ears.
The thing I need to thank this group for was tying Martin Hoffman into
Judy Collins's "Song For Martin" (True Stories and Other Dreams). What
a sad end.
Cheers,
Richard
Richard L. Hess rlh...@mindspring.com
Glendale, CA, USA http://rlhess.home.mindspring.com/
Stewa1
The Joan Baez version of "Deportees" is currently available on the Vanguard CD
" Blessed Are...."
Bob Norton
My 1964 copy of "The Nearly Complete Collection of Woody Guthrie Folksongs"
(Ludlow Music) calls the song "Plane Wreck At Los Gatos (Deportee) (Goodbye
Juan)". Ludlow Music was Woody's publishing company.
The first verse therein is:
The crops are all in and the peaches are rott'ning
The oranges are piled in their creosote dumps
You're flying 'em back to the Mexican border
To pay all their money to wade back again
The 4th verse has lots of dying:
We died in your hills, we died in your deserts
We died in your valleys and died on your plains
We died 'neath your trees and we died in your bushes
Both sides of the river, we died just the same.
Stewa1
I love Joan Baez' recording of this song...so movingly emotional. I think
it's interesting to note that Dolly Parton also recorded this song....I
believe on her RCA album "9 to 5."
Rev1880
Actually, I think Dolly did a great job with this song. Did a nice job of
"Detroit City" and "Dark as a Dungeon" on that album too, now that I think of
it . When she's good, she's damned good. But then sometimes there's stuff you
just end up wondering what she was thinking about when she walked into the
studio.