Prices for used Martin guitars
Eric BERMAN
I've been looking at some Martin 6-strings, and I'm trying to determine
what a good price is. Most of the new ones seem to be listed starting
at $1500 (ouch!), but I'm fairly sure I can negotiate the price down by
about 30%.
One guitar that I really like is a 1963 D-18; the guy who is selling it
is asking $1000, but that seems like a lot for a used guitar. It's in
pretty good shape. Does anyone have any feel for what a good price for
a guitar like this should be?
Thanks.
--Eric Berman (eri...@microsoft.com)
Mike Neverisky
I notice the following:
1958 Martin D18 $1500
1967 Martin D18 $900
1968 Martin D18 $850
Looks like a new D18 will set you back $984 from Elderly.
I do not know what style music you play, but if you would consider
a 000 style, rather than a dreadnought, I have been impressed with
the few 000-16M guitars I have played. A good value at $834.
--
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Mike Neverisky | philabs!trintex!neverisk | Prodigy: KJRJ75A
Prodigy Services Company | 1-914-684-0679 FAX | My opinions, not my
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gordon e. banks
> I do not know what style music you play, but if you would consider
> a 000 style, rather than a dreadnought, I have been impressed with
> the few 000-16M guitars I have played. A good value at $834.
I've been looking at these too. I understand the new Martin 000-16s are
not quartersawn wood. Is this true? If so it makes me cautious.
Taylor makes a similar guitar for about the same price. Their Rosewood
model is about $200 less than the 000-28. Anyone have any comments about
Taylor? I've heard their quality control is better than Martin's.
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gordon Banks N3JXP | "I have given you an argument; I am not obliged
g...@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | to supply you with an understanding." -S.Johnson
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Larry Bergman
>One guitar that I really like is a 1963 D-18; the guy who is selling it
>is asking $1000, but that seems like a lot for a used guitar. It's in
>pretty good shape. Does anyone have any feel for what a good price for
>a guitar like this should be?
>
The reason for the price being comparable (or even higher)
than a new guitar, is that, unlike cars or electronics,
guitars don't wear out or become obsolete with age. In
fact, they acquire value. This is due to the aging of the
instrument. A new guitar requires several years to "break
in" and begin to acquire its mature tone. When you buy a
new guitar there's some risk - you don't really know how
its going to sound after its aged a few years. This an
older guitar you hear its mature voice. Also, I know that
the woods available today are not as high quality as the
best woods available in the past. I don't know the
specifics on '63 D-18s but often older instruments are
valued for their better materials and often higher quality
of workmanship.
Larry
Jimmy Dalin
As a longtime (30 years) owner of Martin guitars, I'm a little dismayed to
say that I've recently compared Martin and Taylor guitars in the same price
range and body shapes and found that the Taylor almost always sounded and
played better. In my opinion, needless to say. At the high end, I've found
that Santa Cruz gives Martin a run for its money.
--
Jim Dalin "No Salga Afuera"
AT&T N.Y.C.T.A.
ATTMail id: !jdalin
Compuserve: 72260,1573
Jimmy Dalin
There is an old story about a collector of rare wine who buys a bottle of
1825 Chateau Lafitte at auction for $25,000, takes it home, opens it, drinks
it, and discovers it tastes terrible. He complains to a fellow wine
collector who explains "rare wine is for collecting, my friend - not
drinking"!
The same can be true of old guitars as well. Some part of their value is
entirely extrinsic. Mandolin Brothers has for sale a turn-of-the-century
roundback mandolin made by Orville Gibson himself; it's selling for $50,000.
Does its sound alone justify that asking price? Clearly not.
While a guitar will improve in tone for years after purchase and remain
playable for decades, eventually the wood will dry out and lose resonance,
although this process could take a century or more.
The fabled "pre-war" sound of the Martin Dreadnoughts resulted from a fairly
lightweight construction that included scalloped braces. After the WW2,
they beefed up the construction in order to make the guitars sturdier, which
was important to them considering they offered (and still do offer) a
lifetime warranty.
What makes one guitar a collector's item and another a used guitar depends
upon a lot of factors such as the manufacturer, materials, construction,
ornamentation, and lots of consumer subjectivity. What I tell friends is to
buy a guitar first and foremost because they like it and want to play it
now. If it turns out to be a collectable later, so much better.
Oops, I should have mentioned above that Martin and other manufacturers have
reintroduced scalloped braces (among other vintage manufacturing techniques)
back into their product line, with apparent success.
Mike Neverisky
>>One guitar that I really like is a 1963 D-18; the guy who is selling it
>>is asking $1000, but that seems like a lot for a used guitar. It's in
>>pretty good shape. Does anyone have any feel for what a good price for
>>a guitar like this should be?
>>
>
>the woods available today are not as high quality as the
>best woods available in the past. I don't know the
>specifics on '63 D-18s but often older instruments are
>valued for their better materials and often higher quality
>of workmanship.
While it may be true that we choose to burn rain forests, rather than
harvest them for luthiers, I take exception with the "higher quality
of workmanship" assertion. I have played some brand new guitars
(Schoenberg - assembled by Martin, Franklin, etc) that can only be
described as exquisite.
Note that older instruments are also valued for their
historical significance - and traded, like commodities, by collectors.
But I'll save that flame for another day.
Steve Pope
>
>>One guitar that I really like is a 1963 D-18; the guy who is selling it
>>is asking $1000, but that seems like a lot for a used guitar. It's in
>>pretty good shape. Does anyone have any feel for what a good price for
>>a guitar like this should be?
$1000 is about the right asking price for a '63 D-18. A guitar
shop would charge a little more than this, a private party probably
a little less. If it's a really wonderful guitar in good shape,
don't feel too bad about paying close to $1000. Be careful (or
pay less) if it's not in good condition -- look for worn frets,
nut, or bridge, any buzzing or other evidence of poor action,
and how well the heads work, as well as giving it a good listen
to see if you like the tone. Play it with and without a flatpick;
this model should work out well either way. Also, when checking it
out, find out what gauge strings are on it -- I like to evaluate a
guitar with medium-gauge strings installed, since lighter gauge strings
may exagerrate the playability.
-- Steve
Mike B. Jewell
> Just glancing at the Elderly Instruments Used Instruments list #102
What is this and how can I get a copy. I am somewhat in the market for
a 1949 Martin 000-18.
Mike J.
Preston Briggs
>What is this and how can I get a copy.
Elderly Instruments is a music store in Michigan that does lots of
mail-order. They've got lots of stringed instruments, books and
records. Among other things, they do used instruments.
Call them at (517) 372-7890 and they'll put you on any of their
several mailing lists.
Preston Briggs
gordon e. banks
They are in Lansing, Michigan. I'm sure 5551212 for there has their
number. 000-18s of that vintage run from $1200 to $2000 or thereabouts.
There's a music store here that has *2* of them.
Peter Fischman
>>In one of the early responses to this note, this line was posted.
>>
>>> Just glancing at the Elderly Instruments Used Instruments list #102
>>
>>What is this and how can I get a copy. I am somewhat in the market for
>>a 1949 Martin 000-18.
>
>They are in Lansing, Michigan. I'm sure 5551212 for there has their
>number. 000-18s of that vintage run from $1200 to $2000 or thereabouts.
>There's a music store here that has *2* of them.
>
I know that vintage stuff is real cool and all, but I bought a new
000-16M (in 1990) because I just loved the sound. I still do. They
sell for under $1000 (usually) and I would recommend them to anyone who
wants a 000. Just check it out. You may like it.
Paul M. Wexelblat
Speaking of which, Are there many Martin 12-strings around?
Prices?
...Wex
--
================================================================
I've been paid for my opinions for so long that I'm beginning to
think they're valuable.
Mike Neverisky
>000-16M (in 1990) because I just loved the sound. I still do. They
>sell for under $1000 (usually) and I would recommend them to anyone who
>wants a 000. Just check it out. You may like it.
Yes, I agree. I don't know how Martin cut the production cost, but for
about $850, the 000-16M is a sweet sounding, nice playing guitar.
Jimmy Dalin
Martin has made 12-strings for about two decades now, but they seem not to
have the popularity of their 6-string models. Having played them, I can
understand why. You will see a used one for sale only occasionally. In my
opinion, no one comes to Taylor when it comes to 12-strings, and since
they're priced comparably to Martins ($1000 - $2200), there's no reason not
to prefer Taylor.
Al Bowers
>Speaking of which, Are there many Martin 12-strings around?
>Prices?
I think in the current production the only two available are the
D12-18 and the D12-28. The -18 is the mahogany side and back guitar,
and the -28 is the rosewood (Indian variety) back and sided guitar. I
understand that they will build a HD12-28 for you if you want (as well
as custom D12-41s and D12-45s). The only two I have prices for are
the '90 prices for the D12-18 and the D12-28 which are like $1500 and
$1800 respectively. Don't forget Martin's Shenendoah line of
instruments, or the Sigma brand (Martin's `cheap' line).
--
"Forward, those sick of overadvertised and nastily-made tin
boxes! Viva Italia!" -Henry N. Manney III
Albion Hideto Bowers bow...@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov Al Bowers
Muso Shinden Ryu Iaido Alfa Romeo GTV6 Ducati MHR (DOD #900)
gordon e. banks
>Yes, I agree. I don't know how Martin cut the production cost, but for
>about $850, the 000-16M is a sweet sounding, nice playing guitar.
Unfortunately, I heard it was by not using quartersawn wood on the
back or sides. I hope this isn't true. Although the original purchaser
will have the lifetime guarantee to back his investment, subsequent purchasers
will not.
Shelley Read Heard
|> Unfortunately, I heard it was by not using quartersawn wood on the
|> back or sides. I hope this isn't true. Although the original purchaser
|> will have the lifetime guarantee to back his investment, subsequent purchasers
|> will not.
I don't know much about guitar building but is quarter-sawn wood more
structurally sound than other cuts of wood? I know that Givens uses
quarter sawn spuce for his mandolin tops. Is that the usual cut?
I'm starting to digress from the original topic but I've been looking at
D-16H Martins. They sound as good as any new D-18 I've heard and
they are certainly priced right.
Thanks, Shelley
--
~ ~ Shelley R. Heard (she...@s5048.b17c.b11.ingr.com)
( o o ) Intergraph Corporation, Huntsville, AL
( ^ ) Disclaimer: This is NOT my master's voice!
/ U \ Whoof!
Al Bowers
>In article <13...@pitt.UUCP>, g...@dsl.pitt.edu (gordon e. banks) writes:
>|> Unfortunately, I heard it was by not using quartersawn wood on the
>|> back or sides. I hope this isn't true. Although the original purchaser
>|> will have the lifetime guarantee to back his investment, subsequent purchasers
>|> will not.
> I don't know much about guitar building but is quarter-sawn wood more
> structurally sound than other cuts of wood? I know that Givens uses
> quarter sawn spuce for his mandolin tops. Is that the usual cut?
Quarter-sawn wood is the most desirable. Book matched d can be
performed with any cut of wood and is the second thing you should look
for. Quarter-sawn wood is easily identified by the grain in the
soundhole.
And contrary to other claims, Takamine uses quarter-sawn book matched
wood for their instruments, not plywood (I know, I've been inside mine
many times, and others as well). The lower cost Tak's may use some
plywood, but I've never examined any and I know for a fact that all
the ones I've looked at were quarter-sawn book matched planks. For
the top, sides and backs.
Shelley Read Heard
|> In article <1992Mar4.2...@infonode.ingr.com> shelley@b17c!b11.ingr.com (Shelley Read Heard) writes:
|> > I don't know much about guitar building but is quarter-sawn wood more
|> > structurally sound than other cuts of wood? I know that Givens uses
|> > quarter sawn spuce for his mandolin tops. Is that the usual cut?
|>
|> Quarter-sawn wood is the most desirable. Book matched d can be
|> performed with any cut of wood and is the second thing you should look
|> for. Quarter-sawn wood is easily identified by the grain in the
|> soundhole.
|>
made of quarter sawn wood likely to have more structural failures, as
you implied. If so, why. I know quarter sawn book matched wood is
attractive, but are the style 16 Martins (that sound great) going to
fall apart after a few years of use? I would be shocked if Martin, with
its (let's see - 1992 - 1833 =) 159 years of experience would put a
poor quality instument on the market, even if it does sound good. Of
couse I'm biased, I own two of them. 8-).
|> --
|> "Forward, those sick of overadvertised and nastily-made tin
|> boxes! Viva Italia!" -Henry N. Manney III
|> Albion Hideto Bowers bow...@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov Al Bowers
|> Muso Shinden Ryu Iaido Alfa Romeo GTV6 Ducati MHR (DOD #900)
--
Vincent Kurpan
Quartersawn wood is stronger AND, most importantly, more stable than other
plain sawn wood. Quartersawn wood is cut on the radius of the tree so
you are looking at the edges of the rings on the surface. When wood expands
and contract it does so mostly in the circomference of the tree. So, a
quartersawn piece of wood just gets a little thicker or thinner with change.
If you plain saw the wood right across the side of the log (tangent) the
piece will warp. You get more large pieces from a log when you plain saw
it and its a faster/easier process (like a bread slicer lengthwise). I
think the actual sound difference, though, is probably not very perceptable.
Brian K. Shiratsuki
>...I know quarter sawn book matched wood is
>fall apart after a few years of use?
i don't think martin could afford to make a bunch of guitars which would
fall apart after just a few years, given that all their instruments have
lifetime warranties. no one's confirmed that the wood in model 16 is
not quarter-sawn. but if not, what is the difference between model 16
model 18?
gordon e. banks
>In article <13...@pitt.UUCP>, g...@dsl.pitt.edu (gordon e. banks) writes:
>|> Unfortunately, I heard it was by not using quartersawn wood on the
>|> back or sides. I hope this isn't true. Although the original purchaser
>|> will have the lifetime guarantee to back his investment, subsequent purchasers
>|> will not.
>
> I don't know much about guitar building but is quarter-sawn wood more
> structurally sound than other cuts of wood? I know that Givens uses
Wood that is taken from planks that were not quartersawn is subject to
warpage with age. I would not spend a great deal on a guitar that
didn't have quartersawn wood.
David Brown
> i don't think martin could afford to make a bunch of guitars which would
> fall apart after just a few years, given that all their instruments have
> lifetime warranties. no one's confirmed that the wood in model 16 is
> not quarter-sawn. but if not, what is the difference between model 16
> model 18?
The differences I know about are the 16 is lacking the white layer of
binding on the edge of the body that the 18 has (and perhaps it has simpler purfling around the sound hole), and the fretboard is
mahagony (I think the 18 uses ebony). I think that Martin may have also
found ways to mechanize some of the building process or cut some other
costs. If anything, the 16 has fancier inlays - small diamonds rather
than dots. I bought a 000-16 about 9 months ago and have been very happy.
I would like to do more about this quarter-sawn issue - if it's true and
the guitar is going to fall apart, I'm going to be rather upset. :-(
David Brown 510-649-4000
Orion Network Systems
(a subsidiary of Apple Computer)
1995 University Ave
Suite 350
Berkeley CA 94704