Folk vs Country
Chase Brady
Country?". My own music seems to be somewhere in the midst of the two, but
I never know quite what to tell people when they ask "What kind of music do
you play?"
My favorite response so far is from a Folk Musician friend of mine. She
explains it this way:
"People will pay to hear Country."
--
******************************************************************
"Heartbeat of the Words" is a collection of ten original songs
by Chase Brady, available from http://www.MP3.com/ChaseBrady
Several songs are available for free download.
******************************************************************
Steven Sellors and/or Cathryn Ward
> My favorite response so far is from a Folk Musician friend of mine. She
> explains it this way:
> "People will pay to hear Country."
I recently read a quote by I-don't-know-who. He said (paraphrased), "When I
said I played folk music, people invited me over for lentil soup. When I called
it country they gave me barbecue and whiskey."
--
Steven Sellors
Grand Bay, NB, Canada
Hojo2X
>"When I>said I played folk music, people invited me over for lentil soup. When
I
>called>it country they gave me barbecue and whiskey."
When I played a tour of Scandinavia, the person who booked me in Finland put me
into country festivals and venues, but in Sweden the person who booked me was
connected to folk music circles.
I averaged $300 a gig ($US) in Finland, and $60 a gig in Sweden. Always got
fed and housed in Finland, but never in Sweden - had to pay for that myself.
Wade Hampton Miller
Brittles
Miller, <hoj...@aol.com (Hojo2X)> wrote:
>>...When I played a tour of Scandinavia, the person who booked me in Finland
put me
into country festivals and venues, but in Sweden the person who booked me was
connected to folk music circles. <<
>>I averaged $300 a gig ($US) in Finland, and $60 a gig in Sweden. Always got
fed and housed in Finland, but never in Sweden - had to pay for that myself.<<
Which did you find more satisfying to play? Which audience appreciated your
music more?
Which were you more comfortable with?
Ed Britt
Brit...@aol.com
Bob Spowart
Chase Brady wrote in message <7ipkf3$u1q$1...@news3.infoave.net>...
>How do you respond to the question "What's the difference between Folk and
>Country?". My own music seems to be somewhere in the midst of the two, but
>I never know quite what to tell people when they ask "What kind of music do
>you play?"
>
>explains it this way:
>"People will pay to hear Country."
>
>
>******************************************************************
> "Heartbeat of the Words" is a collection of ten original songs
> by Chase Brady, available from http://www.MP3.com/ChaseBrady
> Several songs are available for free download.
>******************************************************************
>
Back in the 70s, the BBC had a programme called "Country Meets Folk",
intended to play both country and folk music. There was so little folk
played that it became known as "Country Swamps Folk".
Bob
Frank Hamilton
are some country music performers that are pretty far away from a folk
tradition. The categories established by record companies appear to
be arbitrary for the purpose of selling product so that they define
the marketplace.
The popularization of country music leads me to believe that much of
it has left the traditional folk realm. I don't believe that you can
take the latest country performer's hit song and change it around
without incurring some flack from the commercial country music
industry it would seem to me. Usta' be you could.
Frank
Richard L. Hess
Certainly Tish Hinojosa crosses many lines and that makes her very
interesting! I was quite impressed last July 4th when I heard Suzy
Bogguss on "Capitol Fourth" on PBS. She's a great singer. On that show
she did "This Land Is Your land" with a tiny (albeit not annoying)
country twang...then she sang some GERSHWIN! And did a great job.
I really wish we didn't have all these labels. I just get to like
certain musicians--but the record business is sooo odd. Look at Suzy
Bogguss's album Simpatico with Chet Atkins--great album and it
disappeared really quickly. It took me months to find a copy.
Cheers,
Richard
On Sun, 30 May 1999 23:28:57 GMT, ham...@mindspring.com (Frank
Hamilton) wrote:
>This is an interesting thread. Here's my idea. They overlap. There
>are some country music performers that are pretty far away from a folk
>tradition. The categories established by record companies appear to
>be arbitrary for the purpose of selling product so that they define
>the marketplace.
Richard L. Hess rlh...@mindspring.com
Glendale, CA USA http://rlhess.home.mindspring.com/
Web page: folk and church music, photography, broadcast engineering, and more
D&K Sleger
I saw suzy bogguss circa 83-84 when she was doing the university coffee
house circuit. The country label wasn't even considered for her yet
although she obviously incorporated "some" country into her repertoire.
dave
Tony Fisk
Bob Spowart <B...@rspowart.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:7irvs9$3lt$1...@news4.svr.pol.co.uk...
>
> Back in the 70s, the BBC had a programme called "Country Meets Folk",
> intended to play both country and folk music. There was so little folk
> played that it became known as "Country Swamps Folk".
>
In the UK, Country and Folk are (arguably) far more divisible (except by the
BBC). Country, however, often seems to be an excuse for grown-ups to play
cowboys, and dress up in fringed shirts and pointy boots without being
laughed at (much), rather than a wholly musical thing. Similarly, the
line-dancing craze - and I use the term advisedly.
Thankfully, Folk seems to involve only street clothes and copious quantities
of alcohol. Why is it still associated with coffee-houses in the US ? Is
this a protest-era throwback ? ( I can't use the word 'hangover' there, can
I ) Here, the words 'Folk musician' and 'sober' seem only to appear in the
same sentence when 'never' is also involved. Coffee appears much later in
the equation, usually the following morning.
Come to think of it, there seems to be a distinct connection between the
drinking venue and the musical genre associated with it - e.g. Celtic music
in Irish bars, English Folk in country pubs...... (gross generalization, I
know, but...)
Any rule of thumb for over-the-pond ?
TF
Frank Hamilton
I think the idea has to be reexamined.
>Thankfully, Folk seems to involve only street clothes and copious quantities
>of alcohol.
There are a lot of us who don't drink and feel that folk music has an
element of wholesomeness about it.
Why is it still associated with coffee-houses in the US ?
The coffee house movement started in the Fifties in California. It
was a hangout for "Beat" poets and "bohemians". It was a natural
venue for folk music performers at that time. Vesuvios in San
Francisco was one of the first places I remember hearing folk music in
coffee houses with Rolf Cahn and Jo Mapes. After the Gate of Horn
opened in Chicago (the first folk music nightclub in the U.S.) other
folk coffee house venues opened, notably the Unicorn in Los Angeles
run by Herb Cohen and Theo Bikel. New York followed suit with the
McDougal Street walkdowns.
Is
>this a protest-era throwback ?
Actually, the protest aspect of the "Beat" poet and the folk music
interest did not necessarilly coincide. There was a reaction against
the protest music of the left by some of the folk singers I knew as
being too didactic and not traditional enough.
( I can't use the word 'hangover' there, can
>I )
I hope not.
Here, the words 'Folk musician' and 'sober' seem only to appear in
the
>same sentence when 'never' is also involved.
Couldn't agree with you less.
Coffee appears much later in
>the equation, usually the following morning.
Actually, drugs played a more prominent role in the folk music revival
but this is not a popular topic.
>Come to think of it, there seems to be a distinct connection between the
>drinking venue and the musical genre associated with it - e.g. Celtic music
>in Irish bars, English Folk in country pubs...... (gross generalization, I
>know, but...)
I hope that this generalization isn't a widespread view. I've always
loved traditional folk music and tmany people who reflected that
tradition were not alcoholics or lounge lizards. Many of them were
middle class professional people as well as farmers, miners, cowboys,
sailors and left-wingers. The bit about boozing is really overdone in
my view.
>Any rule of thumb for over-the-pond ?
Don't know much but I've been to functions of the Comhaltas Ceoltoiri
Eireann that were without booze and not a drunk in the bunch. I hope
that the awful sterotype of the Irish people as alcoholics can be
rooted out. Every culture in the world has their share of alcoholism
and the last time I heard it was an illness. There are druggies and
alcoholics everywhere but they don't exclusively comprise the folk
song community.
My two cents.
Frank
Richard L. Hess
>element of wholesomeness about it.
I agree 100%! To the best of my knowledge, none of the artists that I
feature on my web page are high consumers of alcohol. In fact, much
has been made about Judy Collins having been completely off alcohol
and other drugs for 20 years. Prior to that, her drinking problem was
legendary.
Cheers,
Richard
Mary
>
> Any rule of thumb for over-the-pond ?
A common American layman's perceptions/stereotypes of country and folk
might be --
Country & western: either fast dance numbers or slow cryin' songs, most
popular music genre in rural areas in US. Most Americans would tell you
that they know what country is, even if they're not fans.
More people would be hard-pressed to describe what folk music is and you
would get different opinions. Some people would say its old-world,
centuries old ethnic music; other people would say its 60s style,
politically-correct, left-wingers music. Other people would say it's
that stuff you hear played on public radio and Prairie Home Companion.
- Mary
JesiAna
popular music genre in rural areas in US. Most Americans would tell you
that they know what country is, even if they're not fans.>>
Some people would differentiate between "country" and "western," declaring that
"western" ought to refer to the music that grew out of the western, cowboy
tradition (this would include Ian Tyson, who, by the way, is classified in the
record stores sometimes in folk and sometimes in country, Roy Rogers and the
Sons of the Pioneers, Gene Autry, Marty Robbins, etc.), while "country" grew
out of the southern tradition. Of course, music that comes from Texas is both
western and southern. "Western" music usually is more closely connected to the
cowboy traditions, and includes the old cowboy songs. Therefore, it might be
classified as a folk tradition more closely linked to the American work song
than to what is commonly called "country music" today.
<<More people would be hard-pressed to describe what folk music is and you
would get different opinions. Some people would say its old-world,
centuries old ethnic music; other people would say its 60s style,
politically-correct, left-wingers music. Other people would say it's
that stuff you hear played on public radio and Prairie Home Companion.
>>
Some people might maintain that it is all of the above, plus the traditional
songs of workers that originated long before the "politically correct,
left-wingers" music of the '60s style, and that it also takes in the blues,
spirituals, etc. Tough to fit music into categories and make it stay there,
isn't it? I declare that I am passionate about folk music, that it is my
favorite type of music, but I'd be hard put to give it a real definition.
Jesiana
"If you can walk, you can dance. If you can talk, you can sing."
jane
----------
In article <19990603003107...@ng62.aol.com>, jes...@aol.com
(JesiAna) wrote:
> "Western" music usually is more closely connected to the
> cowboy traditions, and includes the old cowboy songs.
interesting . . .
i always thought that it referred to "western swing"
(bob wills, "cowboy jazz" etc.)
not sure i buy your explanation.
any experts care to comment?
jane
Al Christians
when Eastern hillbillies (e.g. Red Foley and Roy Acuff) and Westerners
in cowboy attire (e.g Bob Wills, Gene Autry, Patsy Montana) were about
equally popular. At that time, the music was becoming enough of a
commercial institution to have powers-that-be, and the powers that be
picked a trade name that would have a broad and inclusive appeal. The
pre-WWII name was something like 'Songs of the Hill and Range'.
Al
JesiAna wrote:
>
> acef...@aol.com (ACEford1) wrote:
>
> <<Hey Jesi : )
>
> "Western swing" is only one kind of "western" music...cowboy stuff, Texas
> stuff, stuff set in the west, etc...>>
>
> That's what I thought...and that 'western swing' grew out of the old western
> stuff, but I'm not very knowledgeable about the dance scene or the modern
> country scene. In fact, when I read posts by some of the people who post here
> (Frank Hamilton, Sam Hinton, Steve Suffet, Irwin Silber, etc.) I wonder if I'm
> very knowledgeable about any of this stuff! I learn something here almost every
> time I sign on! Thanks to you folks that keep on teaching me!
ACEford1
"Western swing" is only one kind of "western" music...cowboy stuff, Texas
stuff, stuff set in the west, etc...
>> "Western" music usually is more closely connected to the
>> cowboy traditions, and includes the old cowboy songs.
>
>
>interesting . . .
>i always thought that it referred to "western swing"
>(bob wills, "cowboy jazz" etc.)
>
>not sure i buy your explanation.
>any experts care to comment?
Ace "I wish I was back in Texas" Ford
JesiAna
<<Hey Jesi : )
"Western swing" is only one kind of "western" music...cowboy stuff, Texas
stuff, stuff set in the west, etc...>>
That's what I thought...and that 'western swing' grew out of the old western
Richard L. Hess
>
>----------
>In article <19990603003107...@ng62.aol.com>, jes...@aol.com
>(JesiAna) wrote:
>
>
>> "Western" music usually is more closely connected to the
>> cowboy traditions, and includes the old cowboy songs.
>
>
>interesting . . .
>i always thought that it referred to "western swing"
>(bob wills, "cowboy jazz" etc.)
>
>not sure i buy your explanation.
>any experts care to comment?
>
>jane
OK, so where do Bill and Bonnie Hearne and Tish Hinojosa fall? Bill
and Bonnie are certainly considered Western--a specific genre separate
from Country. Tish is harder to classify--there's a great difficulty
categorizing bilngual artists in any culture it seems.
G. M. Watson
passed for C&W in the pre-WW2 era is "hillbilly music", which was
undoubtedly a smug Northern city person's term and probably as intentionally
pejorative as it sounds-- although it was used in record company catalogs as
well as by mocking/ignorant journalists (whose knowledge of Soouthern rural
culture probably came largely from L'il Abner). Obviously the "hillbilly"
appelation was a response to the stringband phenomenon as well as
better-known but still rustic performers like Uncle Dave Macon, but it was
also applied to comparative smoothies like Roy Acuff (and even Hank Williams
at times). "Western Swing" is something different altogether-- it had more
in common with jazz than country in some ways, though it had roots in both
camps. However, it too was never popular in the urban North (that old great
Mason-Dixon divide...). It wasnn't really until Chet Atkins, Owen Bradley
and a few others took country uptown, starting the so-called
"countrypolitan" sound in the late 50s (which is when I lose interest in
mainstream country music), that the "hillbilly" term started to disappear
from common usage (though, if you ever suffered through an episode of "Hee
Haw", you will realize that the stereotypes attached to the music's image
persisted for a long time). I suspect that even now it might resurface once
in a great while, but only among the most hostile commentators.
----------
In article <37577397...@easystreet.com>, Al Christians
<ach...@easystreet.com> wrote:
>I'd guess that the term 'Country and Western' dates from around WWII,
>when Eastern hillbillies (e.g. Red Foley and Roy Acuff) and Westerners
>in cowboy attire (e.g Bob Wills, Gene Autry, Patsy Montana) were about
>equally popular. At that time, the music was becoming enough of a
>commercial institution to have powers-that-be, and the powers that be
>picked a trade name that would have a broad and inclusive appeal. The
>pre-WWII name was something like 'Songs of the Hill and Range'.
>
>Al
>
>JesiAna wrote:
>>
Frank Hamilton
A good book to read is "Jazz of the Southwest" by Jean A. Boyd. it
gives you all the background on the style of music and how it evolved.
Great book.
Frank
JesiAna
And again, thank you for the information you share on the newsgroup.