HELP - Can you name this old folk tune?
Dan Schroeder
Here's hoping someone can help me out. I am looking for the name /
composer of an old song used in the movies "Scrooge" (1951) and "The
Piano" (1993). If you have seen both movies you know the tune I am
speaking of. In "Scrooge" it's the tune they play throughout most of
the movie and it is what they are singing when Scrooge visits his nephew
in his parlor. In "The Piano" it's the song the little girl sang when
she was alone. I always thought it was an old Irish folk song called
"Barbara Allen" because the name is mentioned in the song but NOBODY
I've contacted has ever heard of that title. I have been searching for
this information for well over 10 years so any help would be
appreciated.
Thanks much.
Dan :)
JohnR46132
Schroeder) writes:
> I always thought it was an old Irish folk song called "Barbara Allen"
because the
>name is mentioned in the song but NOBODY I've contacted has ever heard of
>that title.
WHAT!!??!!??
I don't know who you've been talking to, but "Barbara Allan" is one of the
best-known of the English and American ballads. There are dozens of
variants and probably hundreds of recordings of one or another version.
It's hard to believe that anybody even marginally knowledgeable about
English or American folk music hasn't heard of "Barbara Allen."
Johanna Wandel
: Hi,
: Thanks much.
: Dan :)
I don't remember the song from "The Piano", but I do remember an old song
called "Barbara Allen". It goes something like this:
'Twas in the merry month of May
When sweet rosebuds were swelling
Sweet William on his deathbed lay
For love of Barbara Allen
The song goes on about the death of the young lovers, and then I think
two flowering bushes growing on their graves intertwine...
Don't know if this is what you're looking for, and I guess I don't
remember the song that well. It was in my grade six or seven music book
("the new high road to song" or something like that).
Johanna
Andrew A. Alexis
Well..I don't remember the song from The Piano that clearly..but there
is a very well known folk ballad called "Barbara Allen". Simon and
Garfunkel even did it. Try your local library, and check through a couple
of folk song collection. This is the version in the Digital Tradition:
In Scarlet town where I was born,
There was a fair maid dwellin'
Made every youth cry Well-a-day,
Her name was Barb'ra Allen.
All in the merry month of May,
When green buds they were swellin'
Young Willie Grove on his death-bed lay,
For love of Barb'ra Allen.
He sent his man unto her then
To the town where he was dwellin'
You must come to my master, dear,
If your name be be Barb'ra Allen.
So slowly, slowly she came up,
And slowly she came nigh him,
And all she said when there she came:
"Young man, I think you're dying!"
He turned his face unto the wall
And death was drawing nigh him.
Adieu, adieu, my dear friends all,
And be kind to Bar'bra Allen
As she was walking o'er the fields,
She heard the death bell knellin',
And ev'ry stroke did seem to say,
Unworthy Barb'ra Allen.
When he was dead and laid in grave,
Her heart was struck with sorrow.
"Oh mother, mother, make my bed
For I shall die tomorrow."
And on her deathbed she lay,
She begged to be buried by him,
And sore repented of the day
That she did e'er deny him.
"Farewell," she said, "ye virgins all,
And shun the fault I fell in,
Henceforth take warning by the fall
Of cruel Barb'ra Allen."
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Samuel Pepys in his "Diary" under the date of January 2nd 1665,
speaks of the singing of "Barbara Allen." The English and
Scottish both claim the original ballad in different versions, and
both versions were brought over to the US by the earliest
settlers. Since then there have been countless variations (some
98 are found in Virginia alone). The version used here is the
English one. The tune is traditional.
Child #84
recorded on Joan Baez/2 and Golden Ring, among many others
@ballad @love @death
--
--------------------------------------------------------------
Andy Alexis(nd...@netcom.com OR ara...@dbserv2.teale.ca.gov)
Sacramento, CA "The Pearl of the Central Valley"
Barrie McCombs
"Barbry Allen". The only phrase I can remember is the ending of the
verse "for the love of Barbara Allen". As I remember the story, she
rejects her lover, he dies, but in the end they are buried together and a
rose bush grows on each grave and the roses entwine. Am I on the right
track? If so, let me know and I can check my assorted folksong books
- Barrie
GreeneKing
....never heard of "Barbara Allen"...
Well JohnR beat me to it, but my response was also "WHAT???you're
kidding..." 10 years and nobody could come up with it? I have at least 2
recordings of it, one by the Spinners, and one by John Roberts and Tony
Barrand. Email me for more info.
Gene Wilburn
Dan, If you mean "A Christmas Carol" starring Alastair Sim, then I know
the scene you're describing and it is indeed "Barbara Allen". An old,
old folksong that I have on CD by both Pete Seeger and Joan Baez. (It
was also the first folksong I ever learned to play on guitar, so I remember
it vividly.)
Cheers, Gene
Gerry
: : Here's hoping someone can help me out. I am looking for the name /
: : composer of an old song used in the movies "Scrooge" (1951) and "The
: : Piano" (1993). If you have seen both movies you know the tune I am
: : speaking of. In "Scrooge" it's the tune they play throughout most of
: : the movie and it is what they are singing when Scrooge visits his nephew
: : in his parlor. In "The Piano" it's the song the little girl sang when
: : she was alone. I always thought it was an old Irish folk song called
: : "Barbara Allen" because the name is mentioned in the song but NOBODY
: : I've contacted has ever heard of that title. I have been searching for
: : this information for well over 10 years so any help would be
: : appreciated.
: : Thanks much.
: : Dan :)
The song that the little girl sings in THE PIANO is the old Scottish Traditional song THE FLOWERS OF THE FOREST, (or so my foggy brain tells me, anyways...)
Here follow the lyrics.... Is this the song?
THE FLOWERS O' THE FOREST(Jane Elliot)
I've heard them lilting, at the ewe milkin',
Lasses a liltin' before the dawn of day,
Now there's moanin' on ilka green loanin',
The Flowers o' the Forest are a wede awa'.
At bughts in the mornin', nae blithe lads are scornin',
Lassies are lanely, an' dowie, an' wae,
Nae daffin, nae gabbin', but sighin' an' sabbin';
Ilk ane lifts her laglin, an' hies her awa'.
We'll ha'e nae mair liltin', at the ewe milkin',
Women an' bairns are heartless an' wae;
Sighin' an' moanin' on ilka green loanin',
The Flowers o' the Forest are a wede awa'.
Hope this is correct... All the best.
Brian Morton
(ge...@wchat.on.ca)
: I don't remember the song from "The Piano", but I do remember an old song
Peter Butler
I've never seen either of the movies referred to in the original post, but I'm
sure theres a song called Barbra Allen on one of my old Joen Baez records
(They're large black vinyl things, for you youngsters out there:-) )
Peter Butler
Uni of WOllongong
Robert P. Salzman (Monument Mt. RHS)
In a previous article, p...@citr.itc.com.au (Peter Butler) says:
>In article <Nov29.160...@acs.ucalgary.ca> bmcc...@acs.ucalgary.ca (Barrie McCombs) writes:
>
Barbara Allen
(Fireside Book of Folk Songs, Simon & Schuster, 1947)
In Scarlet town where I was born,
There was a fair maid dwellin'
Made ev'ry youth cry, "Well-a-day"
Her name was Barb'ra Allen
All in the merry month of May
When green buds they were swellin'
Young jenny Grove on his death-bed lay
For love of Barb'ra Allen
He sent his man unto her then,
To the town where she was dwellin'
"You must come to my master, dear
If your name is Barb'ra Allen"
So slowly, slowly she came up
And slowly she came nigh him
And all she said when there she came,
"Young man, I think you're dyin'"
He turned his face unto the wall
And death was drawing nigh him
"Adieu, adieu, my dear friends all,
And be kind to Barb'ra Allen
As she was walking o'er the fields
She heard the death bell knellin'
And ev'ry stroke did seem to say,
"Unworthy Barb'ra Allen"
When he was dead and laid in grave
Her heart was struck with sorrow
"O mother, mother , make my bed
For I shall die tomorrow"
And on he deathbed as she lay
She begged to be buried by him
And sore repented of the day
That she did e'er deny him
"Farewell", she said, "ye virgins all
And shun the fault I fell in
Henceforth take warning by the fall
Of cruel Barb'ra Allen"
Hope this didn't ruin an otherwise happy day
-Bob>
Robin E. Baylor
:
: In a previous article, p...@citr.itc.com.au (Peter Butler) says:
:
: >>rejects her lover, he dies, but in the end they are buried together and a
: >>rose bush grows on each grave and the roses entwine. Am I on the right
: >>track? If so, let me know and I can check my assorted folksong books
: >>- Barrie
Both posts are missing a verse I remember that ends with both
of them in their graves . . .
And out of his heart grew a red, red, rose,
and out of hers, a brier [thorn].
--
How do I get out of this chicken-feed outfit?
REB
COMMANDO
I also have at least 2 versions of this song. One is by Buel Kazee, from a
record called The Old Time Banjo In America on Kicking Mule records. You can
email me too if you want more info. on it, I know I have some stuff written
down somewhere about the history of the song, and I have an address for Kicking
Mule if you want to order the record (but it's at least 15 years old, so I
don't know if it's still available.)
Robert Derrick
This is for me one of those "how you could grow up in America and
not have heard this song" things? It is ubiquitous. Even Porky Pig
sings a verse of it in the Daffy Duck/Robin Hood 'toon.
Anyway,
They buried her in the old churchyard; they buried William nigh her
And from his grave grew a red, red, rose; and from her grave, a briar
They grew and grew in the old churchyard, til they could grow no higher
And in the end, they formed a knot, and the rose grew 'round the briar
or And at the top, a true lover's knot, the red rose and the briar
and probably another 100 or so variations.
--
rob derrick -- U.of E. Professor mu-meritis of Taoism and TAEism Studies
Jeanne Powers
version. There are many. The one I've heard omst often ends
with "On one grave grew a red, red rose/ On the other grew a
green briar/ They grew and grew in the old churchyared/ Til
they could grow no higher/ In the end they formed a true
lover's knot/" and then, depending on the version, the last
line can be either "And a rose grew round a briar" or "For
lovers to admire."
Jeanne
--
Chuck Goelz
..... Also recorded in 1963 by The New Christy Minstrels on the album
"Tell Tall Tales! Ledgends & Nonsense" as "Jimmy Grove and
Barbara Ellen".
Cover notes:
"A ledgend-ballad derived from the minstrelsy of the British Isles.
Such songs were transplanted during the colonization of America
and renditions are as varied as our population. Barbara's name
may be spelled a half-dozen ways; Jimmy Grove is often known as
Sweet William. But the magic of the red rose entwining with the
briar in death is always the same."
Alan Peterman
one done by Garrison Kellior (sp?) on the Praire Home
show about 2 years ago. They carefully "acted out"
each verse...you should hear Barbara Allen explaining
to her mother that she needs a "long, narrow bed"...
--
Alan L. Peterman (503)-684-1984 hm & work
a...@qiclab.scn.rain.com Tigard, Oregon 97224
As I get older the days seem longer and the years seem shorter!
Barbara Taylor
:COMMANDO (si...@kenyon.edu) wrote:
:: In article <3bg03e$k...@newsbf01.news.aol.com>, green...@aol.com (GreeneKing) writes:
:: > In article <3bfcdr$j...@ixnews1.ix.netcom.com>, Tri...@ix.netcom.com (Dan
:: > Schroeder) writes:
:: >
:: > ....never heard of "Barbara Allen"...
:: >
:: > Well JohnR beat me to it, but my response was also "WHAT???you're
:: > kidding..." 10 years and nobody could come up with it? I have at least 2
:: > recordings of it, one by the Spinners, and one by John Roberts and Tony
:: > Barrand. Email me for more info.
:
:: I also have at least 2 versions of this song. One is by Buel Kazee, from a
:: record called The Old Time Banjo In America on Kicking Mule records. You can
:: email me too if you want more info. on it, I know I have some stuff written
:: down somewhere about the history of the song, and I have an address for Kicking
:..... Also recorded in 1963 by The New Christy Minstrels on the album
: "Tell Tall Tales! Ledgends & Nonsense" as "Jimmy Grove and
: Barbara Ellen".
:
: Cover notes:
: "A ledgend-ballad derived from the minstrelsy of the British Isles.
: Such songs were transplanted during the colonization of America
: and renditions are as varied as our population. Barbara's name
: may be spelled a half-dozen ways; Jimmy Grove is often known as
: Sweet William. But the magic of the red rose entwining with the
: briar in death is always the same."
: chu...@a4420ux.esr.hp.com
I had this on a Joan Baez record growing up and often sang it with
my guitar. I think it partly fascinated me because it's my name,
but also it's just a beautiful song.
It's in the Joan Baez Songbook. To the best of my memory,
the words go like the following (I can look up the "correct" lyrics
in the Songbook if the original poster will email me):
Twas in the merry month of May
When green buds all were swellin'
Sweet William on his deathbed lay
For love of Barbry Allen.
[can't remember this verse]
Then slowly, slowly got she up
And slowly she drew nigh him
And the only words to him did say:
"Young man I think you're dying."
[can't remember again]
"Oh mother, father, did my grave,
Make it both long and narrow,
Sweet William died on yestermorn,
And I will die tomorrow."
Barbry Allen was buried in the old churchyard,
Sweet William was buried beside her.
From Sweet William's heart there grew a rose,
From Barbry Allen's a briar.
They grew and grew in the old churchyard
Til they could grow no higher,
hmmm hmmm [can't remember :)]
And the rose grew round the briar.
I loved the way this was used in both Scrooge (1951 -- which, btw, is now
available on video for around $5 and is a wonderful stocking stuffer! :)
and The Piano. In Scrooge, as Scrooge is coming into the vestibule of his
nephew's house, they are singing "And slowly, slowly she got up / And slowly
she drew nigh him / And the only words to him did say ..." and then they
trail off as they see Scrooge. Just as the action of Scrooge in going to his
nephew's prevents his own death, so his coming in at that point stops the
saddest moment of the song, and the death of Sweet William. Then one of the
guests calls for a polka and the whole scene shifts to a happier mood.
In The Piano, I can't remember the exact context as well, but the theme of
the song, of death for love, reflects the context of the movie, i.e., Ada
is willing to die for George.
I never heard of the "Jimmy Groves" version. Joan Baez did sing a song
about "Matty Groves". Don't know the relationship (if any) there.
--Barbara
--
+ Barbara Taylor + But you know, I predicted it, I knew he had to fall,
+ bi...@cas.org + How did it happen, I hope his suffering was small,
+ No speaka for + Tell me every detail for I've got to know it all,
+ my company... + And do you have a picture of the pain? --Phil Ochs
John Garst
mostly funny for the singing style: "They buried h-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-r in
the old church y-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-rd..." where the long words are drawn-out,
descending wails.
John Garst ga...@sunchem.chem.uga.edu
Disclaimer: I bear complete responsibility for my statements.
They represent my views only.
James Lewis
: Twas in the merry month of May
: When green buds all were swellin'
: Sweet William on his deathbed lay
: For love of Barbry Allen.
: [can't remember this verse]
He sent his servent to the town
Where Barbara was a dwellin'
Oh master bid you come to him,
If your name be Barbara Allen.
: Then slowly, slowly got she up
: And slowly she drew nigh him
: And the only words to him did say:
: "Young man I think you're dying."
: [can't remember again]
Oh yes I's sick, so very sick
and on my death bed lyin'
no better no better I ever shall be
If I can't have Barrbry Allen.
(Then she sings the same words . . .
Because you can't have barbry allen.
: "Oh mother, father, did my grave,
: Make it both long and narrow,
: Sweet William died on yestermorn,
: And I will die tomorrow."
: Barbry Allen was buried in the old churchyard,
: Sweet William was buried beside her.
: From Sweet William's heart there grew a rose,
: From Barbry Allen's a briar.
: They grew and grew in the old churchyard
: Til they could grow no higher,
: hmmm hmmm [can't remember :)]
: And the rose grew round the briar.
Note: I have text to about 20 other verses. These are the most
popular. This is one of the old Childe ballads, and came to the New
World very early on. American settlers took it with them as then
moved west, and it exists in many forms (many of them readically
changed) from the Appalachians to California.
Jim L.
--
Jim Lewis - jk...@freenet.scri.fsu.edu
. . . Without ecology . . . there would _be_ no economy.