Naught not Nought
Zeke Hoskin
Dreadnaughts or Dreadnoughts:
Simple: "Naught" = "Nothing"
"Nought" = "0", the _Character_ for nothing
So "Dreadnaught" is "Fearless", while "Dreadnought"
would perhaps descrive Roman numbers or an obscure
math-based phobia.
Unless they meant "nott", which according to Thomas
Hardy is an adjective which when applied to cows means
"hornless". Since there are no horns in most stringbands...
Peter S. Shenkin
>Re the hassle about are big Martins called
>Dreadnaughts or Dreadnoughts:
> Simple: "Naught" = "Nothing"
> "Nought" = "0", the _Character_ for nothing
> So "Dreadnaught" is "Fearless", while "Dreadnought"
>would perhaps descrive Roman numbers or an obscure
>math-based phobia.
The largest class of British battleships of the early 20th century
(and perhaps earlier as well -- are there any naval historians out there?)
was known as the Dreadnaught class. I always thought that came from
the idea that they needed "fear nothing." I think naught=nought
etymologically, but the correct spelling is undoubtedly "Dreadnaught,"
whether instrument of music or of war.
-P.
************************f*u*cn*rd*ths*u*cn*gt*a*gd*jb**************************
Peter S. Shenkin, Department of Chemistry, Barnard College, New York, NY 10027
(212)854-1418 she...@cunixc.cc.columbia.edu(Internet) shenkin@cunixc(Bitnet)
Jim Muller
she...@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Peter S. Shenkin) writes:
>The largest class of British battleships of the early 20th century (and
Well, I started this and now I am sorry for it...
My dictionary (great source of info, sometimes) gives (as I have already
noted in an early posting) Dreadnought (with an "o") as a particular
British battleship built from 1906 to 1907, displacing 17,000 tons and
carrying ten 12-inch guns and twenty-four 12-pound quick-fire guns.
Subsequently, the name applies as a class to any battleship that has
all of its large guns of the same caliber. It (the dictionary) also
goes on to say that both size and armament have increased since then.
The actual entry is dreadnought, dreadnaught [note the "o" form listed
first], with lower case "d", defined as a fearless person (and as a
warm garment made of thick cloth). The battleship is given last.
To return this to the subject of music.folk, both the Mandolin Bros.
and the Elderly Instruments catalogues use the "o" spelling for the
D-nn guitars. Maybe someone should write a song about the Dreadnought.
--
- Jim Muller
Russ Herman
spelling "dreadnought", as well as the following additional meaning:
a thick coat or outer garment worn in very inclement weather;
also, the stout woolen cloth with a thick long pile of which
such garments are made.
Webster's New Collegiate '59 gives the 'a' spelling as the secondary.
Not to worry, though. In another 50 years it'll probably evolve to
drednot" :-) - vowel shifts are among the commonest events of language
change.
Russ Herman
INTERNET: r...@me.utoronto.ca UUCP: ..uunet!utai!me!rwh
Joe Niederberger
>... I think naught=nought
>etymologically, but the correct spelling is undoubtedly "Dreadnaught,"
>whether instrument of music or of war.
Webster's Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary has an entry for "dreadnought"
but naught for "dreadnaught". The first definition given is "a warm
garment of thick cloth", the second the battleship definition.
C.F. Martin Co. spells it "dreadnought", and, since they dubbed their
new guitar design (in 1916) such, I take their spelling as definitive.
Peace,
Joe Niederberger
David Kassover
>
>(and perhaps earlier as well -- are there any naval historians out there?)
>was known as the Dreadnaught class.
It was known as that class because the first ship of that design
was called HMS Dreadnaught. In the US and UK naval
nomenclatures, this is the tradition (We tend to name our
Battleships after states, The British have some other system)...
This is a BIG BEASTY, even as such things go. I think the
Dreadnaught was (is? does it still exist?) bigger even than the
Minnesota, which was never completed... (Japan surrendered too
soon...)
...
Anyhow...
I always thought that came from
>the idea that they needed "fear nothing."
this is certainly a correct literal interpretation. Battleships
are good things to take literally 8-). The word is now used to
indicate something that is more than usually large. Like a 4XL
Tall Irregular shirt...
...
I think naught=nought
>etymologically, ...
...
I have seen both spellings, sometimes interchangeably in the same
document. Some British writers, when spelling accents
phonetically so as to render some hint of sound, use "nowt" to
indicate northern (england) speech. I have listened to many
Scots and Yorkshiremen, and they stretch out the ow so that it is
almost "newt". Except for the ones who pronounce it "noot"
Tic-Tac-Toe, in the UK is Naughts and Crosses.
Now, if someone could explain the connection between Naught
meaning nothing, and Naughty (presumably meaning not Nice)...
I gather from the discussion that the Dreadnaught guitar had a
larger than usual body?
David H. West
>I think naught=nought
>>etymologically, ...
Yes. The "a" spelling is now archaic or dialect.
>Tic-Tac-Toe, in the UK is Naughts and Crosses.
I'd have spelled it with an "o".
>Now, if someone could explain the connection between Naught
>meaning nothing, and Naughty (presumably meaning not Nice)...
Naughty originally seems to have meant "worth or deserving naught".
There are texts in which medieval preachers decry the naughtiness of
sinners, and it's clear that this was a serious rebuke rather than
an accusation of childishness (which is what it would be today).
-David West d...@iti.org