Michelle Shocked breaks down on stage
peter nelson
My wife and I attended a concert by Michelle Shocked
last night in Portsmouth, NH. She appeared with just
one accompaniast (an Irish guitarist whose name I can't
recall/pronounce), even though she arrived in a big,
gaudy, slickly-painted tour bus.
Up to the nearly the end we enjoyed the concert a lot.
She played some new material (e.g., "Stillborn", "Winter
Wheat"), but the stuff that got the strongest reaction
from the crowd was from her "Short, Sharp, Shocked" and
"Arkansa Traveler" CD's. The crowd was enthusiastic and
friendly and her accompaniast seemed to be talented and
energetic, allowing her to get a "big" sound in pieces
like "When I Grow Up", and "If Love Was A Train", even
though there was just the two of them. About the only
letdowns were we she let her accompaniast sing his own
songs - as a lyricist he's a great guitar player! (rhymes
like "dance" and "romance" were passe back when the Beach
Boys were doing "Barbara Ann").
But throughout the show it was clear something was wrong
from Michelle Shocked's viewpoint. From the very beginning
she complained that she didn't like playing at the 700-seat
Portsmouth Music Hall. She preferred "sweaty little rock
clubs". (remember, this is a woman who has played Carnegie
Hall and similar venues!!). She also complained that
the audience was all-white and that she preferred playing
to "more diverse" crowds (what did she expect, booking
her act into New Hampshire - the whitest state in the Union?!)
She complained about the acoustics and the monitors although
nothing was wrong from where we sat.
We put up with these petty insults and reverse snobbery
because the music was so good. But about 20 minutes before
the end of the show she broke down in tears and said that
she couldn't go on. It just wasn't working for her, she said.
Most people sat stunned; a few of her more loyal fans shouted
encouragement to continue; my wife and I and others walked out.
I don't know what to make of this. She's a talented
musician and songwriter - maybe one of the most talented
around today. But she's also tempermental and is willing,
for the sake of an ideological point, to cut off her nose
to spite her face, her career, and her fans. I know she's
had a lot of stress in her career lately, but I also think
she creates a lot of it for herself. Anyone who is as
worldly and experienced as she is cannot possibly be so
naive to misunderstand that when you sign with a label
like Mercury/Polygram you're working for a big corporation
and are expected to play by their rules. And if you book your
act into the "Music Hall" in Portsmouth New Hampshire, you're
not in some little black Baptist church (that she told us she
recently joined).
I have no idea whether her fans ever got her on her feet
again, or what the status of the rest of her tour is. But
it's clear that Michelle Shocked has some re-evaluations
about her life and career to do.
---peter
DBBADH
I'm sure Ms. Shocked would be much appreciative of your concern for her
well-being, as so kindly expressed in your posting. Perhaps if you would
post to the newsgroup an address to which all members could send a check
for one penny and thus ensure that you and your wife got your money back
for the clearly ecomonically traumatic experience, we would be henceforth
be spared your hostile, consumer-mentality-oriented offerings.
Ron Taylor
In <4odgpg$o...@newsbf02.news.aol.com> dbb...@aol.com (DBBADH) writes:
>
we would be henceforth be spared your hostile,
consumer-mentality-oriented offerings.
I think you attack unfairly, I felt the original poster was expressing
an honest reaction to the show. Nothing in that post indivated any
particular anti Shocked agenda. If they reported accurately what they
heard, then Ms Shock came off more than a little full of herself. And,
I'm being kind. Less kindly, I'd suggest she sounded like a real
spoiled little shit.
Ron Taylor
Brisbane, Ca
fat...@ix.netcome.com
Jack Regan
For what it's worth, Ms Shocked left me with a less than favorable
opinion at the end of an "In Their Own Words" concert at the Variety in
Atlanta a couple of years ago. She bolted off stage without an encore,
leaving the other participants pretty obviously bewildered. There were
several somewhat flip comments from Guy Clark about her empty chair
during the lengthy encore segment.
Personally, I think an audience of devoted fans deserves a little more
than erratic behavior from a performer.
FM Fats
George Fiala
Last summer Michelle Shocked played at the Philadelphia Folk Festival. She
was great, but I heard from the volunteers there that her husband almost
got in a fight with some people regarding taping and/or photographing his
wife, and that they almost left after the first day, even though she had
some workshops scheduled the next day. So from what I gathered, her husband
is very possessive about her career.
I reiterate that her performance was wonderful, and she made no snide
remarks that I heard.
George Fiala
Ron Taylor
In <4oe40k$n...@useneta1.news.prodigy.com> BGS...@prodigy.com (Jack
Regan) writes:
>
FM Fats
>
Fatron likes it. Be you an old KFAT listener?
Ron Taylor
Brisbane, Ca
fat...@ix.netcom.com
Georg Petersen
peter nelson <pne...@lagoon.ultranet.com> wrote:
>But about 20 minutes before
>the end of the show she broke down in tears and said that
>she couldn't go on. It just wasn't working for her, she said.
So she was having one of her bad days, so what ?
I respect musicians who have something to say and do it their own way
- as people, not robots.
> Anyone who is as
>worldly and experienced as she is cannot possibly be so
>naive to misunderstand that when you sign with a label
>like Mercury/Polygram you're working for a big corporation
>and are expected to play by their rules.
Oh she really is anything but naive about Mercury Records, spent the
last year or so struggling to do things her way.
Have a look at her website for that:
Regards, Georg
Jinxblues
Last summer Michelle Shocked played at the Philadelphia Folk Festival.
>>>She was great, but I heard from the volunteers there that her husband
>>>almost got in a fight with some people regarding taping and/or
>>>photographing his wife, and that they almost left after the first day,
>>>even though she had some workshops scheduled the next day. So from
>>>what I gathered, her husband is very possessive about her career.
She played a club in northern Mississippi just prior to her New Orleans
Jazz Fest gig and my reports are the same as the above post. The club
manager/owner almost got into a fight with the husband. The club guy is so
laid back that Michelle's husnband must be one major big time jerk to
antagonize him.
I guess he doesn't have a life of his own so he's getting off on being a
control freak. These things never come to a good ending.
dick waterman
jinx...@aol.com
Colin Bigam
Thusly spake peter nelson <pne...@lagoon.ultranet.com>:
>My wife and I attended a concert by Michelle Shocked
>last night in Portsmouth, NH. She appeared with just
>one accompaniast (an Irish guitarist whose name I can't
>recall/pronounce), even though she arrived in a big,
>gaudy, slickly-painted tour bus.
For the record, it was Fiachna O'Braonain, of the hothouse flowers. I'd
never have got the name right if I didn't have the CD cover right in front
of me. :-)
I saw the two of them in San Diego a month or so ago in a "Sweaty little
rock club" which was a far cry from the last time I saw her in a theatre.
Regardless of what the audience thought, (it was rather funny to see a
bunch of laid back folkies in a loud seedy bar) it was pretty clear that
'Chelle was in her element, even without her telling us. (which she did)
What struck me about the show was that I've never seen a performer who fed
off the audience feedback so much. Her energy was entirely a reflection of
ours, and if we hadn't been up on our seats cheering, I suspect she would
have had a hard time sustaining her own momentum.
Now as it turns out, we didn't disappoint her, and hence nor did she us. At
one point, the entire bar was standing up, turned away from the stage,
doing the "First annual San Diego Butt Dance. (Spring 1996)" The person I
dragged along said afterwards, "I'm not so sure about the music, but she
put on such a great show that it was definitely worth going."
Basically, it was a loud, fun, rowdy show. I'm not too surprised that she
gets frustrated and erratic in any lower key venues. It's a bit sad, but
maybe she just shouldn't try them anymore.
>I have no idea whether her fans ever got her on her feet
>again, or what the status of the rest of her tour is. But
>it's clear that Michelle Shocked has some re-evaluations
>about her life and career to do.
To put her in a better light, try to see one of her bar gigs. She's still
'got it', but I can see where it's stretching.
Colin
| "Her eyes had small friendly lightning |
| walking across them." (R. Brautigan) |
|-------------------------------------------------------|
| Colin Bigam: *****NOTE NEW EMAIL ADDRESS!!!***** |
| cbi...@cts.com Public Key available |
David Taube
I saw Michelle Shocked a couple of years ago in Atlanta and my
impression from the concert and her comments is that she is really
only concerned with pleasing herself. I feel most of her "fans" know
and appreciate this about her, and infact like her because of her
"couldn't give a damn attitude". She is not a Nanci Griffith. I
think it is unfortuate when suppossed "fans" start to project upon or
expect their "star" to be or act like this or that. Michelle Shocked
is who she is. If you don't like it go to a James Taylor concert. As
for me I appreciate the raw honesty in her music and comments.
David
peter nelson <pne...@lagoon.ultranet.com> wrote:
>I have no idea whether her fans ever got her on her feet
>again, or what the status of the rest of her tour is. But
>it's clear that Michelle Shocked has some re-evaluations
>about her life and career to do.
>---peter
email: dta...@mindspring.com
WWW: http://www.mindspring.com/~dtaube/dct.htm
The rivers are our brothers. They quench our thirst.
They carry our canoes and feed our children.
So you must give the rivers the kindness that you
would give any brother.
Chief Seattle
Ron Taylor
In <4ohih6$1v...@mule2.mindspring.com> dta...@atl.mindspring.com (David
Taube) writes:
>
I think it is unfortuate when suppossed "fans" start to project upon or
>expect their "star" to be or act like this or that. Michelle Shocked
>is who she is. If you don't like it go to a James Taylor concert. As
>for me I appreciate the raw honesty in her music and comments.
>
Well said; just ask Bob Dylan and Van Morrison fans over the years.
They've both thrilled & frustrated me in this regard. However, now
I seem to prefer lending my support, emotional & financial, to the
more gracious types - Hinojosa, Rowan, Emmylou, etc.
Perhaps I'm just getting a bit too old, stuffy & staid to be much
impressed by strident youth on stage.
Regards,
Ken Sternberg
It¹s a shame when a successful musician forgets about common civility and
how to treat audiences (on which their success depends) decebtly.
Shocked¹s feet may walk on the ground, but her ego walks on the ceiling.
peter nelson
DBBADH wrote:
>
> I'm sure Ms. Shocked would be much appreciative of your concern for her
> well-being, as so kindly expressed in your posting. Perhaps if you would
> post to the newsgroup an address to which all members could send a check
> for one penny and thus ensure that you and your wife got your money back
> be spared your hostile, consumer-mentality-oriented offerings.
"Consumer mentality"?
Where do you get this? I never said anything about
whether I got my money's-worth or otherwise expressed
my comments in such commercial terms.
What I wrote was an honest review of her show. I
pointed out, for instance, how good her performance
was and how well received it was by the audience up
to the point where she lost it. But it was HER
decision, not the audience's (including mine) to
inject her personal considerations and problems
into her show. And it was HER decision to
comment on the kind of audience she prefers to
play before or the kind of club she likes to play
in (and how this wasn't either one).
Michelle Shocked is a very talented, but clearly
troubled, person. These things often go hand in
hand (Sinead O'Conner comes to mind). And perhaps
her troubled past helps her creativity (and her
creative work helps her cope with her past). But
the nature of performance art is that you are subject
to public scrutiny, commentary, and review, and my
comments are just those. I'm not commenting on some
stranger who went to pieces in the supermarket; I'm
commenting on someone who arrived at a large concert
hall in a big, bright tour bus, who gets up on stage
under all the lights and says "listen to me, look at me,
react to me!" So these are my reactions. I think
my comments represent a balanced account of her show.
What is your complaint about all this? Why do
you seem to think it's unfair?
---peter
peter nelson
David Taube wrote:
>
> I saw Michelle Shocked a couple of years ago in Atlanta and my
> impression from the concert and her comments is that she is really
> only concerned with pleasing herself. I feel most of her "fans" know
> and appreciate this about her, and infact like her because of her
> think it is unfortuate when suppossed "fans" start to project upon or
> expect their "star" to be or act like this or that. Michelle Shocked
> is who she is. If you don't like it go to a James Taylor concert. As
> for me I appreciate the raw honesty in her music and comments.
For someone who has played places like Carnegie Hall
to complain that the Portsmouth Music hall is too
"hoity toity" for her, or to even BOOK her act into
New Hampshire and then complainto her audience that
they are too white (New Hampshire has the lowest non-
white population in the US) doesn't sound very honest
to me.
---peter
Francis Chen -- fc01@swt.edu
The only issue I have not seen brought up on this thread is that
of her past hospitalization(by her mother because of Michelle
Shocked not wanting to follow the Mormon faith) and, my guess, the
anti-psychotic medication that was put into her. It is not to say
that her behavior and perceived attitude does not suck nor is am
I trying to "excuse" her behavior. But this stuff stays with you.
In one of her campfire sets at Kerrville, she told us the story of
"5 AM in Amsterdam" and her "kindly" nurse, the only person to show
her sympathy and empathy in the hospital. "...Isabelle ringing in
my head...'it's just a trick of lights..."
Francis
--
________________________________________________________________________________
Francis Y. Chen //
FC...@SWT.EDU o/\_
Student of Psychology, perception and existence. <\__,\\
">. ||
"The consciousness is the greatest hinderance to ` .-||
proper execution of all physical activity." - Bruce Lee . \\
. \\
"If you don't let go you can't fall off." - Jerry Moffat .-||
. ||
Have a grateful day!!!! . ||
________________________________________________________________________________
Jim Rota
Sounds very shocking, indeed!
Steve Pope
peter nelson <pne...@lagoon.ultranet.com> writes:
>For someone who has played places like Carnegie Hall
>to complain that the Portsmouth Music hall is too
>"hoity toity" for her, or to even BOOK her act into
>New Hampshire and then complainto her audience that
>they are too white (New Hampshire has the lowest non-
>white population in the US) doesn't sound very honest
>to me.
New Hamshire may be white, but it is basically a suburb
of Boston which has a large non-white population.
People in Boston can easily go up to see a performance
in New Hampshire if they so choose.
So Ms. Shocked failed to attract the type of audience
she had hoped for; disappointed with her apparent lack of appeal,
she shifted the blame to the audience that DID show up instead.
Pretty sucky behavior if you ask me.
Steve
peter nelson
Colin Bigam wrote:
> Basically, it was a loud, fun, rowdy show. I'm not too surprised that she
> gets frustrated and erratic in any lower key venues. It's a bit sad, but
> maybe she just shouldn't try them anymore.
Except in the portsmouth NH concert the audience was
very supportive, clapping and singing along, on their
feet, etc. There was group of people who got out of
their seats and were down by the stage dancing.
Granted, this isn't the same as a dance club where
everyone is on their feet, but it's not as though
the audience sat passively.
BTW from today's Boston Globe (used withOUT permission):
"Folk singer Michelle Shocked broke down in mid song
Sunday to say her audience and Portsmouth New Hampshire lacked
diversity, then ran offstage to her tour bus, according to
concertgoers at the Portsmouth Music hall. Shocked was
complaining throughout the concert about the sound system
and size of the place said promoter Joe Fletcher. She
apparently started to cry during 'Graffiti Limbo' about
a black graffiti artist killed by police in a New York
City subway during his arrest. She stopped singing
and blamed the audience for the city's lack of diversity.
Shocked is white."
> To put her in a better light, try to see one of her bar gigs. She's still
> 'got it', but I can see where it's stretching.
I'd like to, because I like her music. But I don't
think she'll be back here anytime soon.
Has anyone seen any comments since the concert from her
point of view about what happened?
---peter
peter nelson
peter nelson
peter nelson
peter nelson
peter nelson
peter nelson
peter nelson
peter nelson
peter nelson
peter nelson
Bob Soron
In article <4oe40k$n...@useneta1.news.prodigy.com>, BGS...@prodigy.com
(Jack Regan) wrote:
Frankly, I think both you and the person who called her a conceited little
shit are being kind. When that tour came to Boston, there she is on a
stage with Guy Clark, Sonny Landreth, and Allen Toussaint. The place is
packed with Shockheads who are not only cheering her on but *booing* the
other three participants. Shocked's reaction? She egged the crowd on.
She's got her hands waving toward herself, as in "More, more," while the
crowd is booing the other three for no other reason than that it's their
turn. She's preening and smiling during the catcalls. And while I wouldn't
make the claim about Landreth (although I greatly enjoy his music), both
Clark and particularly Toussaint have had far more effect on the music
industry than she could ever hope to have. After that experience and
because of it, I wouldn't cross the street to see Shocked. She's not just
an egotist; she's a miserable creep of an egotist.
Bob
bobs...@world.std.com
"It's getting harder and harder to act weird" -- Bill Griffith via Zippy
Alan Havens
In article <31AE3E...@lagoon.ultranet.com>, peter nelson
<pne...@lagoon.ultranet.com> wrote:
(various comments about a Michelle Shocked concert deleted)
All this stuff about Michelled Shocked breaking down in the middle
of a show and going out ot her bus reminds me of a story that I
heard about the late Sammy Davis, Jr. I don't remember all the
details, but the sense of it was that he was in Las Vegas, starts
his show, stops, and says 'Sometimes I got it, and sometimes I don't
got it. Tonight I just don't got it.' . . . And offers to pay the dinner
and drinks tab for the whole crowd. Now that's class.
Alan Havens
The above does not represent any official opinion of anybody, anywhere.
C.S.
At a Tower Record appearance to promote her second album, Michelle
basically gave the stage over to (the then unheard of, at least by
me) Billy Bragg, and barely performed at all, after complaining
about the kind of gig it was.
This is the kind of behavior one would expect of Bob Dylan! Miles
Davis! Van Morrison! Jim Morrison! Dwight Gooden!
Maybe women geniuses are victims of a double standard. I could
hardly complain that she didn't do a full-tilt set at a free event,
but I was all up to listen to her. I still get all her
albums--because she is a true renegade super artist, gifted with
brilliant words, melody and voice.
C.S.
--
N/A
Stephen Coyle
Of course, I wasn't there to hear it firsthand ... but complaining to
or about an audience is ungracious in the extreme, and any attempt to
justify such behavior is misled. There's a big gulf between "honesty"
and self-indulgence.
The fact is that these people (the sudience) have set aside an evening
to be with you. If audiences of a particular demographic strata are
not to the artist's liking, then that artist should not invite such
audiences to attend. The person the artist should be complaining to
is his/her agent or manager. If you agree to do a show, you put up
and shut up and give audiences what they came for ... which is
presumably what you HONESTLY offered in the first place!
____
Stephen Coyle
THE FRONTMEN
http://frontmen.com
Ken Sternberg
In article <4ol2u7$c...@agate.berkeley.edu>,
s...@zabriskie.EECS.Berkeley.EDU (Steve Pope) wrote:
> So Ms. Shocked failed to attract the type of audience
> she had hoped for; disappointed with her apparent lack of appeal,
> she shifted the blame to the audience that DID show up instead.
> Pretty sucky behavior if you ask me.
The simple issue is: Shocked apparently was unhappy enough to insult her
audience, but NOT unhappy enough to cancel the concert and forfeit her
money. If true, sheąs a huge hypocrite.
Robin Jatko
On 27 May 1996, DBBADH wrote:
> I'm sure Ms. Shocked would be much appreciative of your concern for her
> well-being, as so kindly expressed in your posting. Perhaps if you would
> post to the newsgroup an address to which all members could send a check
> for one penny and thus ensure that you and your wife got your money back
> for the clearly ecomonically traumatic experience, we would be henceforth
> be spared your hostile, consumer-mentality-oriented offerings.
>
>
Ah yes. I had not been aware up to this pooint that Michelle Shocked had
played for free. Thank you for clarifying that for us.
Robin (What? You say she actually gets *paid* to entertain her fans? Oh
how awful. She must be one of those people with a consumer-oriented-mentality)
janmv
bobs...@world.std.com (Bob Soron) wrote:
>When that tour came to Boston, there she is on a
>stage with Guy Clark, Sonny Landreth, and Allen Toussaint. The place is
>packed with Shockheads who are not only cheering her on but *booing* the
>other three participants. Shocked's reaction? She egged the crowd on.
>She's got her hands waving toward herself, as in "More, more," while the
>crowd is booing the other three for no other reason than that it's their
>turn. She's preening and smiling during the catcalls.
[snip]
>Bob
WOW!!!! That's a really sad thing...... I saw her a few years back at
Ben and Jerry's and she was great, I never saw thoes traits. She is
back there again this year...... I really hope what you say is not
true......
- Jan
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
ja...@tiac.net
"But honey do drop in at the Dew Drop Inn.."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
janmv
> The only issue I have not seen brought up on this thread is that
> of her past hospitalization(by her mother because of Michelle
> Shocked not wanting to follow the Mormon faith) and, my guess, the
> anti-psychotic medication that was put into her. It is not to say
> that her behavior and perceived attitude does not suck nor is am
> I trying to "excuse" her behavior. But this stuff stays with you.
> In one of her campfire sets at Kerrville, she told us the story of
> "5 AM in Amsterdam" and her "kindly" nurse, the only person to show
> her sympathy and empathy in the hospital. "...Isabelle ringing in
> my head...'it's just a trick of lights..."
> Francis
I totally agree!! And from the description of her husband it sounds
like there could be *more* to that relationship than meets the eye,
and I do * NOT* mean in a good or Healthy way, if you get my
drift......
janmv
peter nelson <pne...@lagoon.ultranet.com> wrote:
[snip]
> I'm not commenting on some
>stranger who went to pieces in the supermarket; I'm
>commenting on someone who arrived at a large concert
>hall in a big, bright tour bus, who gets up on stage
>under all the lights and says "listen to me, look at me,
>react to me!" So these are my reactions. I think
>my comments represent a balanced account of her show.
>What is your complaint about all this? Why do
>you seem to think it's unfair?
>---peter
I *totally* agree with you peter! You have said nothing wrong, you
were fair, honest and objective. I think the person who flammed you is
way off base, and possibly blinded by how much he likes Michelle
John M. Gamble
In article <4onuqg$3qn$2...@mhade.production.compuserve.com>,
Er, what double standard? When Miles Davis acted with
contempt on stage for his audience, he was called on it. He
frankly was not a man i would ever want to meet, but i also
purchased his albums.
Bob Dylan certainly has come in for his share of criticisms,
including being booed off stage.
I can't speak about Jim Morrison or Dwight Gooden, and i happen
to think Van Morrison is vastly overrated, but you get the idea.
just because one is a) male, and b) called a genius, does not
make one immune from criticism. And the original poster did
*not* put Shocked down for her music.
The above, by the way, should not be taken as a denial that
discrimination exists. But you chose your examples poorly.
-john
net address: 7233...@compuserve.com
jga...@ripco.com
Bob Soron
> bobs...@world.std.com (Bob Soron) wrote:
>
> >When that tour came to Boston, there she is on a
> >stage with Guy Clark, Sonny Landreth, and Allen Toussaint. The place is
> >packed with Shockheads who are not only cheering her on but *booing* the
> >other three participants. Shocked's reaction? She egged the crowd on.
> >She's got her hands waving toward herself, as in "More, more," while the
> >crowd is booing the other three for no other reason than that it's their
> >turn. She's preening and smiling during the catcalls.
>
> WOW!!!! That's a really sad thing...... I saw her a few years back at
> Ben and Jerry's and she was great, I never saw thoes traits. She is
> back there again this year...... I really hope what you say is not
> true......
Sorry, Jan, I can guarantee every word of it. Saw it from 30 feet away
from the stage. I hope she grows up some (or any) someday, but I won't
bother to check. Even aside from her Portsmouth show, as far as I'm
concerned she should be bagging groceries at Piggly-Wiggly.
John H. Zureick
In article <4onuqg$3qn$2...@mhade.production.compuserve.com>,
C.S. <75333...@CompuServe.COM> wrote:
>At a Tower Record appearance to promote her second album, Michelle
>basically gave the stage over to (the then unheard of, at least by
>me) Billy Bragg, and barely performed at all, after complaining
>about the kind of gig it was.
>
>This is the kind of behavior one would expect of Bob Dylan! Miles
Check again on Dylan. I have never heard of him doing less than a full
concert and in over 30 years in the business he has only cancelled about
three shows. The guy is the hardest working person in music. Now if
you are just talking about being eccentric, you have a point.
What about Chuck Berry who travels from town to town with only his guitar
and uses local musicians as backup? Now that's strange. George Jones
was the king of the no-shows.
John H. Zureick
In article <DsDzs...@rci.ripco.com>,
John M. Gamble <jga...@ripco.com> wrote:
>In article <4onuqg$3qn$2...@mhade.production.compuserve.com>,
>C.S. <75333...@CompuServe.COM> wrote:
>>At a Tower Record appearance to promote her second album, Michelle
>>basically gave the stage over to (the then unheard of, at least by
>>me) Billy Bragg, and barely performed at all, after complaining
>>about the kind of gig it was.
>>
>>This is the kind of behavior one would expect of Bob Dylan! Miles
>>
>
>including being booed off stage.
Dylan was booed, but never offstage. He stood in there and fought it off.
Unlike Sinead O'Conner who couldn't take the heat.
This is funny, remember the Blue's Brothers where they had to perform
behind the chicken wire? That was not something made up. Read any
biography of Hank Williams or Jerry Lee Lewis, they spent as much time
fighting the audience as entertaining them!
Ron Taylor
In <4oum7m$d...@babbage.ece.uc.edu> zur...@ucunix.san.uc.edu (John H.
Zureick) writes:
>
>Dylan was booed, but never offstage. He stood in there and fought it
off. Unlike Sinead O'Conner who couldn't take the heat.
Oh, goody; now let's beat up on Sinead. Michelle's old news! I too
was struck by O'Conner's pathetic showing at Dylan's 30th Anniversary
Concert. She certainly showed herself unworthy of being on that stage.
As paththetic as her little display, was Kristawfulson's show of
hugging her as she wimped off the stage. As my grandpappy used to say,
"If you're gonna run with the big dogs, you can't pee like a puppy!"
I'm listening to Sharon Burch's latest CD; what a refreshing
alternative to the pre mentioned.
Regards,
Ron Taylor
Brisbane, Ca
fat...@ix.netcom.com
Jack Regan
Every time I see the title of this thread I imagine that Ms. Shocked has
put together a bluegrass band...
FM Fats
loquitur
> >This is the kind of behavior one would expect of Bob Dylan! Miles
> >Davis! Van Morrison! Jim Morrison! Dwight Gooden!
> >
>
> The above, by the way, should not be taken as a denial that
> discrimination exists. But you chose your examples poorly.
>
> -john
on were making their reps and acting up on stage, but I was around and
they (and many others) WERE given tons of shit about it. It really
behooves anyone claiming a double standard to know what the hell the
facts are.
William W. Barker
In article <eok2oD...@bif.com> loqu...@bif.com (loquitur) writes:
Yes, old Van Morrison apparently made an ass of himself a few weeks ago at
a club in NY and the NY Times flamed him pretty good for it. The part I
most vividly remember is them saying, essentially "you never know what
you'll get at a VM gig, sometimes the artist comes and sometimes the crank
shows up" and went on to relate how the artist did the main performance and
sure enough, the crank appeared for the encores. Reminds me of the times
I've seen old Bill Monroe...B-
Daniel Herman
I've seen Bill Monroe numerous times and, while sometimes cranky, never saw him "dis"
his audience!
William W. Barker wrote:
>
> sometimes the artist comes and sometimes the crank
> shows up" ... Reminds me of the times
William W. Barker
In article <31B674...@columbia.edu> Daniel Herman <db...@columbia.edu> writes:
>I've seen Bill Monroe numerous times and, while sometimes cranky, never saw him "dis"
>his audience!
was the implication. But he's a cranky old geezer! I saw him walk off the
stage in AThens Georgia one time because the drunken fratboys swilling keg
beer down front wouldn't heed his request to shut up. He played three
songs. B-"more power to him!"
Oh and what about the great scissors story on Emmylou's Live at the Ryman...classic!
Olin Murrell
I come very late to this thread, as I have no opinion whatsoever toward
Michelle Shocked. I know her. I like her. I find her a bit strange
sometimes, but then who isn't?
The absolute best "dissing an audience that so richly deserved it" story
comes through a friend of mine who found himself in Las Vegas, with a
ticket to see two of his favorite performers, Don Rickles and Mason
Williams.
Odd, though it may seem, Williams was opening for Rickles in some Vegas
showroom.
At any rate, my friend says Williams came on to the stage, sat down and
began to play. The crowd started talking, and yelling for Rickles. Mason
looked up and quit playing. The crowd began to clap, and finally
quietened down. Mason began another selection.
Up comes the crowd noise again, and the above scenario was repeated
twice.
At the third time, Mason quietly stood up, smashed his guitar over his
stool, and walked off the stage, to uproariously loud applause.
Rickles came on stage to even louder applause, but when it died down he
simply said, "You have insulted one of America's greatest artists. If you
do not have the decency to listen to Mason Williams, you do not have the
right to listen to me tonight. Good night!"
He walked from the stage, and did not return. As far as I know, no money
was returned either.
Having read a bit of this thread early on, I'd have to say Michelle got
on a high horse that wasn't ready to ride a time or two. Maybe even Bill
Monroe has gone a bit far from time to time, but rare is the instance
when a performer has the "right" to berate an audience. They paid their
money, and if collectively they wish to behave as assholes, then IMHO,
it's the responsibility of the house or the rest of the audience to
control such behavior. A performer can rarely win if they stoop to the
level of such cretins.
But, there are times......
--
Olin Murrell
Austin, TX
ol...@bga.com
http://www.realtime.com/~olin
George Hawes
ja...@tiac.net (janmv) wrote:
>peter nelson <pne...@lagoon.ultranet.com> wrote:
>[snip]
<snip>
>I *totally* agree with you peter! You have said nothing wrong, you
>were fair, honest and objective.
Well, for a start he said that the monitors were OK, which he
couldn't possibly have known . . .
And it's a common misaprehension with performers, even at the
highest level, that when the sound out of the monitors is wrong
the the sound in the hall MUST also be wrong . . .
I'm not denying Peter's comments had a lot of truth in them, but
they DID go beyond the objective.
This is the most depressingly negative, bitching thread I've
read in a long time . . Your common humanity makes me dispair of
the folk community, which is a very rare thing. All you
comfortable souls sitting up there in judgement; heaven must be
getting terribly crowded!
How about putting the same energy into enthusing about what you
enjoy, thereby inspiring the rest of us rather than depressing
us?
Regards to all,
George
George Hawes
>Dylan was booed, but never offstage. He stood in there and fought it off.
>Unlike Sinead O'Conner who couldn't take the heat.
With respect, that is NOT comparing like with like.
Regards
George
John Fereira
In article <4p8spp$2...@i-cubed.co.uk> George...@i-cubed.co.uk writes:
>ja...@tiac.net (janmv) wrote:
>
>>peter nelson <pne...@lagoon.ultranet.com> wrote:
>
>>[snip]
><snip>
>
>
>>I *totally* agree with you peter! You have said nothing wrong, you
>>were fair, honest and objective.
>Well, for a start he said that the monitors were OK, which he
>couldn't possibly have known . . .
>And it's a common misaprehension with performers, even at the
>highest level, that when the sound out of the monitors is wrong
>the the sound in the hall MUST also be wrong . . .
the mains. Often if the musician can't hear themselves on the monitors
they'll play or sing louder to compensate and that will directly affect
out the sound is in the hall.
--
John Fereira
fer...@isis.com
Isis Distributed Systems - Ithaca, NY
Ron Taylor
In <4p8spp$2...@i-cubed.co.uk> George...@i-cubed.co.uk (George Hawes)
writes:
>
>This is the most depressingly negative, bitching thread I've
>read in a long time . . Your common humanity makes me dispair of
>the folk community, which is a very rare thing. All you
>comfortable souls sitting up there in judgement; heaven must be
>getting terribly crowded!
>
>How about putting the same energy into enthusing about what you
>enjoy, thereby inspiring the rest of us rather than depressing
>us?
>
>
>
You're right, George. This is a depressing thread. However, I have
found this group to be generally a most positive and supportive bunch
of people. Obviously, there was offense taken by many at Shocked's
behavior. Do you propose to suppress the expression of any
displeasure? You must be pretty crowded up there on sunnybrook farm.
Regards to you too!
Bert D. Dodds
>The absolute best "dissing an audience that so richly deserved it" story
>comes through a friend of mine who found himself in Las Vegas, with a
>ticket to see two of his favorite performers, Don Rickles and Mason
>Williams.
Hoyt Axton once dealt with a heckler by simply setting down his guitar,
walking out into the audience, punching the guy once in the face and
knocking him out....works for me, but might also work for a few attorneys.
BD
John Lupton
In article <4p6tjg$8...@news.doit.wisc.edu> bar...@geology.wisc.edu (William W. Barker) writes:
>From: bar...@geology.wisc.edu (William W. Barker)
>Subject: Bill Monroe is a fine human being (Was) Michelle Shocked breaks down
>Date: 6 Jun 1996 15:30:56 GMT
>In article <31B674...@columbia.edu> Daniel Herman <db...@columbia.edu> writes:
>>I've seen Bill Monroe numerous times and, while sometimes cranky, never saw him "dis"
>>his audience!
>Oh no I have never seen him disrespect his audience either. Sorry if that
>was the implication. But he's a cranky old geezer! I saw him walk off the
>stage in AThens Georgia one time because the drunken fratboys swilling keg
>beer down front wouldn't heed his request to shut up. He played three
>songs. B-"more power to him!"
>Oh and what about the great scissors story on Emmylou's Live at the Ryman...classic!
You'll hear a lot of stories about Monroe and his legendary
feistiness...you'll also hear a lot of stories about his good side as well,
all of which means that, like all of us, he's a very complex human being. I've
seen him perform many times, and have never seen him put anything less than
100% effort into his show, but he also expects that the audience is there to
give 100% attention...and I don't see anything wrong with that.
Bill Monroe is widely known for being hard-nosed about his music and the
business of his music, but keep in mind that had he not been so for these last
50+ years...hell, almost 60 years now...he would not have survived
professionally, let alone become the folk and country music icon that he is
today. I'm sure the life of a travelling folk performer like Michelle Shocked
in this day and age is no bed of roses, but it's nowhere near as gruelling as
what Bill Monroe endured for many, many years, on stage and off, before he
began to get the recognition he deserved. No disrespect to Ms. Shocked
intended, but I can't help thinking that 50 years from now, a lot more people
will be listening to and playing Bill Monroe's music than hers. Just my
opinion.
********************************************************************************
John Lupton, SAS Comm & Network Svcs, University of Pennsylvania
"Rural Free Delivery", WVUD-FM 91.3, Newark, Delaware
http://www.sas.upenn.edu/~jlupton/rfd.html
Brandywine Friends of Old Time Music
http://www.sas.upenn.edu/~jlupton/bfotm.html
********************************************************************************
The University of Pennsylvania: a bar with a $25,000 cover charge...
Tom Norulak
> >In article <31B674...@columbia.edu> Daniel Herman <db...@columbia.edu> writes:
> >>I've seen Bill Monroe numerous times and, while sometimes cranky, never saw him "dis"
> >>his audience!
> You'll hear a lot of stories about Monroe and his legendary
The first time I saw Bill Monroe perform was at the Three Rivers Arts
Festival in Pittsburgh. It had rained and the festival decided not to
crank up the PA. Rather than call it quits, Bill and the boys invited
everyone on stage for an unamplified acoustic concert. First Class in my
book.
Tom
--
Tom Norulak Accordion; Folk Music; Screen Printing;
nor...@telerama.lm.com Printmaking; Fine Arts
http://www.lm.com/~norulak
"When you get to the fork in the road, take it." --Yogi Berra
Ken West
In article <jlupton.36...@sas.upenn.edu>, jlu...@sas.upenn.edu
(John Lupton) wrote:
> In article <4p6tjg$8...@news.doit.wisc.edu> bar...@geology.wisc.edu
(William W. Barker) writes:
> >From: bar...@geology.wisc.edu (William W. Barker)
> >Subject: Bill Monroe is a fine human being (Was) Michelle Shocked breaks down
> >Date: 6 Jun 1996 15:30:56 GMT
> . . .
> >Oh and what about the great scissors story on Emmylou's Live at the
Ryman...classic!
>
PLEASE! I've seen the video. I have the album. Emmylou is the ultimate
for me. But I've never heard of the the "scissors story" .
CanWilliam W. Barker or anyone elaborate and clarify?
Ken West
(PS -- has everyone sent in their vote for rec.music.artists.emmylou-harris ? )
Dianne_Gregory
John M. Gamble (jga...@ripco.com) wrote:
: In article <4onuqg$3qn$2...@mhade.production.compuserve.com>,
: C.S. <75333...@CompuServe.COM> wrote:
: >At a Tower Record appearance to promote her second album, Michelle
: >basically gave the stage over to (the then unheard of, at least by
: >me) Billy Bragg, and barely performed at all, after complaining
: >about the kind of gig it was.
: >This is the kind of behavior one would expect of Bob Dylan! Miles
: >Davis! Van Morrison! Jim Morrison! Dwight Gooden!
: >
: >Maybe women geniuses are victims of a double standard. I could
: >but I was all up to listen to her. I still get all her
: >albums--because she is a true renegade super artist, gifted with
: >brilliant words, melody and voice.
: Er, what double standard? When Miles Davis acted with
: contempt on stage for his audience, he was called on it. He
: frankly was not a man i would ever want to meet, but i also
: purchased his albums.
: Bob Dylan certainly has come in for his share of criticisms,
: including being booed off stage.
: I can't speak about Jim Morrison or Dwight Gooden, and i happen
: to think Van Morrison is vastly overrated, but you get the idea.
: just because one is a) male, and b) called a genius, does not
: make one immune from criticism. And the original poster did
: *not* put Shocked down for her music.
:
: The above, by the way, should not be taken as a denial that
: discrimination exists. But you chose your examples poorly.
: -john
: net address: 7233...@compuserve.com
: jga...@ripco.com
John Lupton
In article <kenwest-1306...@voyager12.lglobal.com> ken...@lglobal.com (Ken West) writes:
>From: ken...@lglobal.com (Ken West)
>Subject: Re: Bill Monroe is a fine human being (Was) Michelle Shocked breaks down
>Date: 13 Jun 1996 19:45:03 GMT
>In article <jlupton.36...@sas.upenn.edu>, jlu...@sas.upenn.edu
>(John Lupton) wrote:
>> In article <4p6tjg$8...@news.doit.wisc.edu> bar...@geology.wisc.edu
>(William W. Barker) writes:
>> >From: bar...@geology.wisc.edu (William W. Barker)
>> >Subject: Bill Monroe is a fine human being (Was) Michelle Shocked breaks down
>> >Date: 6 Jun 1996 15:30:56 GMT
>> . . .
>> >Oh and what about the great scissors story on Emmylou's Live at the
>Ryman...classic!
>>
>PLEASE! I've seen the video. I have the album. Emmylou is the ultimate
>for me. But I've never heard of the the "scissors story" .
>CanWilliam W. Barker or anyone elaborate and clarify?
I think he's referring to Emmy's telling on stage (heard on both the video
and the CD, as I recall) of Monroe being backstage with her and the band while
they (the Nash Ramblers) were having makeup applied. Commenting on Sam Bush's
hippie-style, long-flowing locks, Monroe said (according to Emmy), "I got some
scissors if you need 'em..."
Ironically, when I saw them later at Valley Forge PA on what came to be called
the "Ryman Tour", Sam had gotten his hair cut fairly short, at least by his
standards...<g>
>Ken West
>(PS -- has everyone sent in their vote for rec.music.artists.emmylou-harris ? )
********************************************************************************
MIKE REGENSTREIF
>> >Oh and what about the great scissors story on Emmylou's Live at the
>Ryman...classic!
>>
>
>PLEASE! I've seen the video. I have the album. Emmylou is the ultimate
>for me. But I've never heard of the the "scissors story" .
>
>CanWilliam W. Barker or anyone elaborate and clarify?
After singing "Get Up John," Emmylou mentions that Bill Monroe was
backstage while the band was being made up and mentions to Sam Bush that
he has a pair of scissors (Sam Bush has long hair. It's on the CD at the end
of track 14.
Mike Regenstreif
"Folk Roots/Folk Branches" on CKUT in Montreal
mre...@vax2.concordia.ca
Ida Red 1
Hey, what do you mean (Was)?
Please don't tell me he died.
RSVP soon!
John Lupton
In article <4qd17n$1...@newsbf02.news.aol.com> ida...@aol.com (Ida Red 1) writes:
>From: ida...@aol.com (Ida Red 1)
>Subject: Re: Bill Monroe is a fine human being (Was) Michelle Shocked breaks down
>Hey, what do you mean (Was)?
>Please don't tell me he died.
>RSVP soon!
Calm down...the (Was) in the header just means that this thread originated
(i.e. "was") as a discussion of Michelle Shocked's behavior at a recent
performance. Someone mentioned Bill Monroe, and the tangent took off from
there. When this happens, it's good net etiquette to change the subject header
to reflect the change in the discussion. In this case, it just got phrased in
a way that could be misleading.
In case you weren't aware, Bill Monroe has been in a hospital in Nashville for
a couple or three months for treatment of various age-related ailments (he's
85 now), and had a pacemaker installed a month or so ago. He also suffered
what was described as a "minor stroke", but last word I heard is that he is
making progress in recovering. It appears doubtful, though, that he will be
able to perform again in the forseeable future, if ever.