Stolen Instruments
Paul Draper
Mike O'Connor and Taffy Thomas' car was broken into in Liverpool City Centre
last night. All the contents of the car have been stolen including MAURICE
GRANDJON VIOLIN, 1896, unique label, Hill Bow plus one other, LACHENAL 30
button C/G concertina NUMBER 133139. Mike and Taffy are at the start of
their Christmas tour and they are both devastated. If anyone hears of these
instruments being offered for sale or hears anything, please contact
Liverpool Police immediatley. Please pass this message on and give it out at
clubs etc.
stig
from musicians...c
"Paul Draper" <Paul_...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:ass6v1$8c2$1...@venus.btinternet.com...
selkie
"stig" <jam...@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:abrI9.274862$1O2.17623@sccrnsc04...
instruments to order sometimes. Or cotas! I went to a local pub after going
to a brilliant Scocha gig and during the night at the local pub my fleece
was stolen. Probably not much to somebody but not having a coat means I
can't go wheelchair curling. I can cope without a coat but my instruments?
No way. One of the worst things to happen.
selkie
jim
"selkie" <jgfg...@ghhgh.com> wrote in message
news:astfcm$g4p$1...@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk...
> yep I totally agree. It makes you wonder whether there are people who
steal
> instruments to order sometimes.
I'd guess not, would you feel happy out in a session with a stolen fiddle or
box?
My guess is they'll turn up in a local second hand shop when a pitance for
drugs has changed hands.
Jon Freeman
> My guess is they'll turn up in a local second hand shop when a pitance for
> drugs has changed hands.
I doubt they know or care about the real value of the instruments. I knew someone who had
a nice Grover 5 string banjo which he valued at around £3000 stolen. That one turned up
in a shop in Liverpool priced at something like £100.
--
Jon Freeman
http://www.folkinfo.org
James
"Jon Freeman" <j...@jonbanjo.com> wrote in message
news:astq53$l7v$1...@news6.svr.pol.co.uk...
some thieving sh*tehawk stole my guitar a couple of years ago in Cambridge.
A few weeks later I was walking along and noticed a busker collecting using
my guitar case, which I recognised as the removed stickers had left glue
marks. I phoned the police, as you do, and I was lucky enough that when they
went round to the thieving toerag's flat, the guitar was there, completely
undamaged. It took me ages to get it all back from the police as the guitar,
case, capo, tuner &c had to be kept for evidence. But THREE CHEERS for the
Cambridgeshire Constabulary.
James
David Rintoul
to a true musician goes way beyond money.
You kind of go out into the world on a quest to find that perfect instrument
that you can love for its own merits, almost like finding a mate. It's not
just a matter of getting the cash together to replace it. Every instrument
has its own personality and losing one is like losing a loved one.
But then again, there is a story of a monk who had his purse stolen. He
said, "I feel sorry for the fellow who took my purse. There was very little
in it, so I have lost very little. But he has lost a great deal. He has
become a thief."
I had a break-in last winter and that story helped me deal with it.
--
David Rintoul
david....@sympatico.ca
http://www3.sympatico.ca/david.rintoul
"In prosperity, our friends know us. In adversity, we know our friends."
jim
"David Rintoul" <david....@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:jwuI9.11959$rv5.1...@news20.bellglobal.com...
> But then again, there is a story of a monk who had his purse stolen. He
> said, "I feel sorry for the fellow who took my purse. There was very
little
> in it, so I have lost very little. But he has lost a great deal. He has
> become a thief."
>
> I had a break-in last winter and that story helped me deal with it.
Ok maybe afterwards when the cops have given you a number and forgotten
you...
But if you'd caught him/them/her doing it, punching their lights out would
have made you feel even better ;-)
Four of these scum broke into a neighbours house. What they didn't know was
that he was a cop.
He cuffed two of em to a pipe and chased down a third in the street.
Of course with three down the nick it was only a matter of time before they
blabbed about the other one.
What a shame this doesn't happen every time.
David Rintoul
But if you'd caught him/them/her doing it, punching their lights out would
have made you feel even better ;-)
-------
Not necessarily. I know of two cases where someone caught a thief in the
act and got into a fight with them. They both ended up with a permanent
injury. In one case it was a dentist who broke his hand punching a burglar
and never was able to work as a dentist again.
In most cases, it's just not worth it.
--
David Rintoul
david....@sympatico.ca
http://www3.sympatico.ca/david.rintoul
"In prosperity, our friends know us. In adversity, we know our friends."
J. Churton Collins
David Rintoul
----------
No, it's what happens when you take the law into your own hands.
Jim Lucas
> Gawd, I HATE thieves. There is a special place in
> Hell for those who steal from musicians...c
Yep. Right next to the perpetual bodhran (or spoons) "player" with no
sense of rhythm.
;-) /Jim Lucas
Jim Lucas
> > It makes you wonder whether there are people who
> > steal instruments to order sometimes.
jim wrote ...
> I'd guess not, would you feel happy out in a session
> with a stolen fiddle or box?
Maybe *somebody* would, but there's another possibilty. If an
unscrupulous dealer (pawnshop, or whatever) hears (there are many ways
that don't necessarily involve friendship or even personal contact) that
you're looking for a particular instrument, they could put the word out to
their sources. Then a few days or months later you suddenly hear (perhaps
through the "grapevine") that this particular dealer has just acquired
exactly what you're looking for. How many of us demand ironclad
documentation of the complete history of an instrument when we buy it,
whether it's old or new?
I did hear stories in New York right after the price of anglos basically
doubled (thanks to Noel Hill's successful efforts to popularize the
instrument) that organized crime had put concertinas on their list of
items they would steal-to-order. I.e., items that they felt there was
enough demand for that they could be considered "standard" items. I never
wanted to find out how true that was.
But it also doesn't have to be precisely "to order". Someone with
expertise in the value of musical instruments could very well make a
profession of "attending" folk music events with an eye to noticing when
valuable instruments aren't being watched, then spiriting them away. With
a fiddle or guitar there's a wide range, but any job which nets a
concertina can be expected to be profitable, even if the thief doesn't
know the exact value.
> My guess is they'll turn up in a local second hand shop
> when a pitance for drugs has changed hands.
Maybe. Maybe not. If it was a professional job, they could turn up at
the other end of the country or even in a different country, to reduce the
likelihood of their being encountered by someone who would recognize them
as being stolen.
While we don't like to think that folkies could also be thieves, we
shouldn't discount the possibility that there is someone (or more than
one) who is primarily a thief, but who has bothered to learn enough about
folk music to allow him (or her) to move inconspicuously within what he
considers to be a niche market with little competition.
/Jim Lucas
Jim Lucas
> What these thieves may not realize is that the true value
> of an instrument to a true musician goes way beyond money.
However, in addition to not realizing, they may not care.
> ...there is a story of a monk who had his purse stolen. He
> said, "I feel sorry for the fellow who took my purse. There
> was very little in it, so I have lost very little. But he has
> lost a great deal. He has become a thief."
A lovely story and bit of philosophy, but I feel it has a flaw. It
appears to assume that 1) the thief was not already a thief, or at least
that 2) becoming a thief *is* a "loss", which implies 3) the monk has
assumed that his own values are superior to those of the thief, which is a
form of arrogance.
/Jim Lucas
Jim Lucas
> I know of two cases where someone caught a thief
> in the act and got into a fight with them. They both
> ended up with a permanent injury. In one case it
> was a dentist who broke his hand punching a burglar
> and never was able to work as a dentist again.
>
> In most cases, it's just not worth it.
It seems there are three things that society expects people to be able to
do without any training. They are 1) make love, 2) raise children, and 3)
(though possibly only for men) fight with their fists.
In New York City there's a fourth, since in order to get a license to
carry a gun a person needs to demonstrate that he might need to defend
himself (e.g., if he regularly carries sums of money from a shop to a
bank), but *not* that he is competent in the use of the weapon.
/Jim Lucas
David Rintoul
the monk has assumed that his own values are superior to those of the thief,
which is a form of arrogance.
------
Are you calling it arrogant to value honesty over greed? If so, I know and
respect an awful lot of arrogant people. Or, are you claiming that all
values are relative? If so, we`ve come full circle back to Bob Dylan`s High
Water.
``You can`t just open your mind boys to every conceivable point of view.``
Stealing a musician`s instrument is just plain wrong. Anyone who does that
has sunk pretty low.
--
David Rintoul
david....@sympatico.ca
http://www3.sympatico.ca/david.rintoul
"In prosperity, our friends know us. In adversity, we know our friends."
J. Churton Collins
"Jim Lucas" <j...@danbbs.dk> wrote in message
news:10393575...@news2.cybercity.dk...
> David Rintoul wrote ...
> > What these thieves may not realize is that the true value
> > of an instrument to a true musician goes way beyond money.
>
> However, in addition to not realizing, they may not care.
>
> > ...there is a story of a monk who had his purse stolen. He
> > said, "I feel sorry for the fellow who took my purse. There
> > was very little in it, so I have lost very little. But he has
> > lost a great deal. He has become a thief."
>
> A lovely story and bit of philosophy, but I feel it has a flaw. It
> appears to assume that 1) the thief was not already a thief, or at least
> that 2) becoming a thief *is* a "loss", which implies 3)>
/Jim Lucas
>
>
>
>
Henry Tan
that were essentially free roaming the garden. Just last week, three
burglers jumped the fence to get in and the first he knew about it was when
they started screaming when the dogs "packed" them.... apparently Akita's
don't bark and have a loose herding/guarding mentality.
T.
"David Rintoul" <david....@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:34wI9.12195$rv5.1...@news20.bellglobal.com...
Ron Hardin
> Stealing a musician`s instrument is just plain wrong. Anyone who does that
> has sunk pretty low.
I hope it's okay to tax musicians' instruments away. The poor need the money
more than musicians do.
--
Ron Hardin
rhha...@mindspring.com
On the internet, nobody knows you're a jerk.
David Rintoul
--
David Rintoul
david....@sympatico.ca
http://www3.sympatico.ca/david.rintoul
"In prosperity, our friends know us. In adversity, we know our friends."
J. Churton Collins
"Ron Hardin" <rhha...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:3DF38D...@mindspring.com...
Ron Hardin
>
> I'm not sure I follow that one.
Musicians as a class tend to be pro-tax on property of the rich,
or former property of the rich. Yet they feel loss of property
keenly when it's their own.
me...@skyway.usask.ca
Chris
... next ?
David Rintoul
Musicians as a class tend to be pro-tax on property of the rich, or former
property of the rich.
--------
Hmmmm....I wonder if, say, Sir Mick Jagger, Sir Elton John, Sir Paul
McCartney, Bob Dylan or Michael Jackson are pro tax on property of the rich?
We know George Harrison wasn't, as spiritual and left leaning as he was, he
also wrote the song Taxman and he managed to gather up quite a lot of
"former property" when they settled up his estate.
Anyway, how did all musicians get to be one class? Some musicians find that
their music habit costs them quite a bit of money and others wind up
millionaires.
Some musicians are very liberal and others are very conservative. Musicians
are part of every culture and religion in the world. Where were we all
supposed to sign up for this class? A lot of us seem to have been missed.
----------
So then he wrote...
Yet they feel loss of property keenly when it's their own.
------
Now, what in the world does paying your taxes have to do with having your
favourite instrument (which may or may not be worth much financially) ripped
off by someone skulking around the back of the stage at some festival?
Taxation isn't theft. All those roads and sewers and bridges and schools
and hospitals and parks and post offices and airports and things you may
have noticed around your community cost a lot of money to run. I really
don't see how you can call paying your share of that cost "loss of property"
.
But, anyway, let's talk about folk songs.
---
bogus address
> It seems there are three things that society expects people to be able
> to do without any training. They are 1) make love, 2) raise children,
> and 3) (though possibly only for men) fight with their fists.
>
> In New York City there's a fourth, since in order to get a license to
> carry a gun a person needs to demonstrate that he might need to defend
> himself (e.g., if he regularly carries sums of money from a shop to a
> bank), but *not* that he is competent in the use of the weapon.
Surreal anecdote from Andy Kershaw on his programme this week: the
1930s bluesmen Blind Willie McTell and Blind Lemon Jefferson both
used to carry guns...
========> Email to "j-c" at this site; email to "bogus" will bounce <========
Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 6604760
<http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/purrhome.html> food intolerance data & recipes,
Mac logic fonts, Scots traditional music files, and my CD-ROM "Embro, Embro".
Jack Dingler
1. Assuming you can sing better than someone who can't carry a tune.
2. Assuming you're better at determining pitch than someone who's deaf.
3. Assuming you have a higher IQ than someone in a coma.
There are times when someone does have an ability, whether innate or
learned, that is a step above the skill of others. This may be obvious
to the person who has gone to the trouble to learn the skill, but not
obvious at all to those who don't have the ability to see it.
I've been in a number of situations where I was asked to prove
something, (math, programming, logic), that others didn't believe was
true. So I carefully laid out my proof. Taking care with each point to
make sure it was consistent and logical. In the end these folks then
declared I've proved nothing, because they don't understand a bit of it.
It was like arguing with someone who's illiterate, about the contents of
a book. The person who is illiterate could very well assume that you're
arrogant for know better then he, the contents of the book in question.
I'm an amateur muscian. I can play the guitar with a bit of ability.
However, I can't on my own keep an accurate beat. When some tells me I'm
rushing or dragging, should I start calling them arrogant? No, I
shouldn't. Because I know all to well that they're always right.
In the story below, we're comparing a thief and a monk. Odds are, the
thief is going to have lower moral standards. This does not mean that
the monk is without sin. But IMO a monk that can make that sort of
statement from the heart, does have a higher sense of morality than a thief.
Jack Dingler
Jack Dingler
Jack Dingler
Ron Hardin
> ------snip
> Now, what in the world does paying your taxes have to do with having your
> favourite instrument (which may or may not be worth much financially) ripped
> off by someone skulking around the back of the stage at some festival?
>
> Taxation isn't theft. All those roads and sewers and bridges and schools
> and hospitals and parks and post offices and airports and things you may
> have noticed around your community cost a lot of money to run. I really
> don't see how you can call paying your share of that cost "loss of property"
> .
Taxation is theft when _non-payers_ impose it on the payers by outnumbering
them. Also a political technique: everybody is a deposed king.
The thief thinks he deserves your instrument. There was no vote, is all.
PeteSchug
rhha...@mindspring.com wrote on 12/9/02 6:03 AM:
[snip]
>
> Taxation is theft when _non-payers_ impose it on the payers by outnumbering
> them. Also a political technique: everybody is a deposed king.
>
> The thief thinks he deserves your instrument. There was no vote, is all.
As much as I hate taxes I sometimes get something back for my money, but
those times I've had something stolen it has been a total loss, and
sometimes caused me inconvenience as well.
Thieves will steal anything and then throw away what they can't sell or use.
Politicians need our tax money to get re-elected, (spend it wisely on your
friends and then they fund your election campaign) but in the process we get
things like roads and schools. I'm not always too happy with the things my
money is spent on, but at least some of it goes for my own good. I can't say
anything positive about thieves though.
I could give you some tales of woe about my taxes, and I do think that some
taxes are outright crimes (I buy a rock and sell it for a profit and I get
taxed. I buy a pile of wood and make a fiddle and the tax is exactly the
same, as if my work counted for nothing!) but a thief not only takes 100%
and gives back nothing, he also pays no taxes on his 100% profit.
Pete
David Rintoul
Taxation is theft when _non-payers_ impose it on the payers by outnumbering
them.
-------
Ummmm.... no. Taxation is not theft. NOT paying your taxes is theft.
------------
So then he wrote....
The thief thinks he deserves your instrument. There was no vote, is all.
--------
Oh, is that all? A politician has a mandate from the community to make
decisions on their behalf and will have to answer for it when the next vote
comes around. A thief just helps himself to anything he can get his hands
on and hopes he never gets caught..
Boy, it was pretty silly of me to dwell on that little detail.
----
David Rintoul
david....@sympatico.ca
http://www3.sympatico.ca/david.rintoul
"In prosperity, our friends know us. In adversity, we know our friends."
J. Churton Collins
"Ron Hardin" <rhha...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:3DF478...@mindspring.com...
> David Rintoul wrote:
> > ------snip
> > Now, what in the world does paying your taxes have to do with having
your
> > favourite instrument (which may or may not be worth much financially)
ripped
> > off by someone skulking around the back of the stage at some festival?
> >
> > Taxation isn't theft. All those roads and sewers and bridges and
schools
> > and hospitals and parks and post offices and airports and things you may
> > have noticed around your community cost a lot of money to run. I really
> > don't see how you can call paying your share of that cost "loss of
property"
> > .
>
> Also a political technique: everybody is a deposed king.
>
Ron Hardin
> The thief thinks he deserves your instrument. There was no vote, is all.
> --------
> Oh, is that all? A politician has a mandate from the community to make
> decisions on their behalf and will have to answer for it when the next vote
> comes around. A thief just helps himself to anything he can get his hands
> on and hopes he never gets caught..
>
> Boy, it was pretty silly of me to dwell on that little detail.
You're not seeing the political trick. The majority rules. The politician
sees: if I offer to tax the minority and not tax the majority, I win.
No point taxing the poor to not-tax the rich. You can't get enough tax money
that way. But the other way works! As you know, the poor are poor because they
are deposed kings: they deserve the money and the rich have stolen it from them.
There's a platform to run on! So 51% vote to tax the other 49% and not themselves.
That sort of thing makes taxation theft. It's a little different from the agreement
you allude to, which in fact exists: if you poll people and ask what is the largest
percentage of anybody's income that should be taken away? The answer is the same
across all income classes, 25%. A huge agreement. So that's what the maximum tax
rate would be, if everybody paid the same tax rate so everybody is voting on their
own tax as well as others'. But you can't win an election with it the easy way,
the easy way being to divide the electorate by income and run on dual rates to
get a majority.
As you know, musicians are also deposed kings and so their property is sacred;
it's just that they tend otherwise to identify with the poor and downtrodden
who deserve free stuff, when it's not their stuff in that's question.
So I am questioning the moral indignation when your instruments are stolen.
Get a job, buy another one. Lots of people have things stolen. Time to
move up to a nicer instrument anyway.
Jim Lucas
> Jim Lucas wrote...
> the monk has assumed that his own values are superior
> to those of the thief, which is a form of arrogance.
> ------
> Are you calling it arrogant to value honesty over greed?
No.
1) I consider it arrogant to make assumptions. I consider it arrogant
that the monk would consider the thief poorer for having a different set
of values. It only happens that in this case those values are presumed to
relate to greed, "disrespect for property", or whatever. (The tale, after
all, doesn't present the thief as a person. We hear nothing of his/her
motivation.)
2) What has the thief lost, if the thief doesn't feel the loss?
3) A person *can* be both honest and arrogant, or dishonest and
humble. The two "virtues" don't depend on each other.
4) *I* value honesty quite highly, more highly than many people I
know. I'm not defending the thief, simply questioning *part* of the
monk's attitude.
> Stealing a musician`s instrument is just plain wrong.
> Anyone who does that has sunk pretty low.
I agree. I agreed before it happened to me. I take no comfort in the
fact/belief/whatever that the thief has thereby increased in some sort of
spiritual poverty.
/Jim Lucas
Jim Lucas
> On the internet, nobody knows you're a jerk.
Not true. On the internet, *everybody* can see you're a jerk. They just
don't know for sure who you really are. A more accurate version of that
statement would be:
On the internet, nobody knows *you* are *the* jerk.
IMO, /Jim Lucas
David Rintoul
So 51% vote to tax the other 49% and not themselves.
------------
It's more like 98% of the people vote to tax the other 2%. That's the 2% who
have 80% of the money. The way money gets spread around in a market economy
is a lot more lop sided than you are letting on. "From him to whom much is
given, much also shall be expected."
----------
And then, by some weird leap of lateral thinking that I can't quite figure
out, Ron mysteriously arrived at this statement...
So I am questioning the moral indignation when your instruments are stolen.
Get a job, buy another one. Lots of people have things stolen.
-----------
Usually, when a musician loses an instrument, they can raise the money or
get their insurance to replace it. That's not the point.
To a musician, losing an instrument is like losing a loved one, and that's
how they are going to feel about it. You can question how they feel or
accuse them of some kind of socialist hypocrisy 'til the cows come home, but
that won't change anything one way or the other.
Can we talk about folk songs now?
David Rintoul
It only happens that in this case those values are presumed to relate to
greed, "disrespect for property", or whatever. (The tale, after all,
doesn't present the thief as a person. We hear nothing of his/her
motivation.)
----------
I don't see it quite that way. There could have been all sorts of
mitigating circumstances. Maybe the thief's children would have starved if
he hadn't taken the money. Maybe he was in the most dire of straights.
All the more reason to feel sorry for him. The monk says "I feel sorry for
the fellow who took my purse." Not, "I can feel better about myself by
looking down on the fellow who took my purse."
There's a difference. Anyway it's only a story.
Ron Hardin
> So 51% vote to tax the other 49% and not themselves.
> ------------
> It's more like 98% of the people vote to tax the other 2%. That's the 2% who
> have 80% of the money. The way money gets spread around in a market economy
> is a lot more lop sided than you are letting on. "From him to whom much is
> given, much also shall be expected."
That's even better, I was making the mildest form of the point. Not taxing
themselves is the key. That's why it's theft.
A nice flat 25% is fair all around. You vote that rate for yourself if you
vote it on anybody. The rich still pay 80% of the tax but it's fair.
That way you have a stake in what's ``needed.'' A lot less is needed if you
tax yourself. Your instruments were ``needed'' by somebody who paid zero for them.
If you visit the rec.bicycles* groups, you can find similar indignation about
bicycle thieves. Instrument thieves are not mentioned.
Anahata
> 2) What has the thief lost, if the thief doesn't feel the loss?
Atually if he does not feel anything, he has suffered a loss already.
Call it awareness if you like.
--
Anahata
ana...@treewind.co.uk -+- http://www.treewind.co.uk
Home: 01638 720444 Mob: 07976 263827
Jim Lucas
> >...the monk has assumed that his own values are
> >superior to those of the thief, which is a form of
> >arrogance.
Jack Dingler wrote ...
> There are other forms of arrogance, that fit your
> definition.
>
> 1. Assuming you can sing better than someone who
> can't carry a tune.
> 2. Assuming you're better at determining pitch than
> someone who's deaf.
> 3. Assuming you have a higher IQ than someone in
> a coma.
> [and rather more]
I don't believe those particular examples fit my "definition", as you call
it, since I mentioned "values", and you have listed *skills*.
But my intention was to present a point of view, not to force it on
others, so I'd rather not enter into a debate over the possible
interpretations or ramifications.
/Jim Lucas
David Rintoul
If you visit the rec.bicycles* groups, you can find similar indignation
about bicycle thieves. Instrument thieves are not mentioned.
------
That's because, unlike us, they respect their topic. This is straying way
off topic, and, just like a lost drunk, it's also going in circles.
Disputes on the net go round and round,
Round and round,
Round and round.
Disputes on the net go round and round,
All though the web.
Since this is rec.music.folk and not alt.reaganomics.false_economy.flat_tax,
I'm not going to argue with you about this anymore.
If you want a flat tax, go run for office.
Now, can we talk about folk songs?
Jim Lucas
> I know of two cases where someone caught a thief
> in the act and got into a fight with them. They both
> ended up with a permanent injury. In one case it
> was a dentist who broke his hand punching a burglar
> and never was able to work as a dentist again.
>
> In most cases, it's just not worth it.
I know stories like that. And I know the opposite kind, where the
criminals were the ones who got in over their head.
Whatever you may think, the real lessons of those stories aren't about
criminals and victims, or laws and lawbreaking, but about competence
and judgement.
/Jim Lucas
Mark Bluemel
OK - Here's what he's said before:-
>I think it's time to quote the Malagasy proverb that I learned from
that
> wonderful film "The Left Handed Man Of Madagascar" some 12 years ago.
>
> "In a fight with a fool it's a wise man who quits"
Mark
Ron Hardin
> I'm not going to argue with you about this anymore.
>
> If you want a flat tax, go run for office.
>
> Now, can we talk about folk songs?
Is there a flat tax folk song? Or any right wing folk song?
Tom Lehrer perhaps.
There's an old ballad used to illustrate mutual metaphor
She leaned her back against a thorn
(Fine flowers in the valley)
And there she has her young child born
(And the green leaves they grow rarely).
that's right wing I guess, in that it does not suggest
the need for socialized medicine.
Steven Rowe
to talk about their views on why they shouldnt have to pay taxes ????
wow
and you folks are answering him?
double wow!
sr
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Gerry Myerson
Ron Hardin <rhha...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> Is there a flat tax folk song? Or any right wing folk song?
> Tom Lehrer perhaps.
I think the only thing keeping Tom Lehrer from spinning in his grave
at the thought that he had anything to do with "folk song" is that
he's not dead yet.
I also can't see any grounds for calling Lehrer "right wing," and
I'd be astonished if he ever identified himself as such.
Maybe Ron has in mind Lehrer's song, The Folk Song Army. I don't
know what kind of reception this song would have gotten at a folk
club in 1965, but it went over pretty well when I sang it at the
local (left-leaning) club a couple of years back.
I've learned how to set Followups! I've trimmed them down to
rec.music.folk, as Lehrer is neither uk nor celtic. I will not
enter into any argument over whether he is folk.
--
Gerry Myerson (ge...@mpce.mq.edi.ai) (i -> u for email)
PeteSchug
more time on them than I have playing my various instruments, but if I had a
choice about what to have stolen, take my bikes.
I can replace them with money, the instruments were chosen (or built by me)
over a long period of time in a way that not even a custom made bike can
match. The best get to be like family members. You take care of them and
feel about them as if they were alive. In a way they have a life and we are
only the custodians of good instruments, since in most cases they will
outlive us. It hurts when something like that falls into the hands of
someone who sees only the monitary value.
Taxes on the wealthy are not unusual, they tend to accumulate money with no
apparent effort, mostly by doing things they enjoy. The indians of the
American northwest noticed this and instituted the potlatch to redistribute
wealth annually. Extravegant gifts were given by those that had and by next
year the same people were able to give again.
What I object to in taxes would be too long to go into.
Pete
--
Check out my fiddle making site
http://home.att.net/~PeteSchug/
in article 3DF4DD...@mindspring.com, Ron Hardin at
rhha...@mindspring.com wrote on 12/9/02 1:16 PM:
Ron Hardin
> Taxes on the wealthy are not unusual, they tend to accumulate money with no
> apparent effort, mostly by doing things they enjoy. The indians of the
> American northwest noticed this and instituted the potlatch to redistribute
> wealth annually. Extravegant gifts were given by those that had and by next
> year the same people were able to give again.
I think actually potlatch was the extravagant destruction of wealth. Think
of your instrument's theft that way. It will be good for you.
You can't own land, you can't own a horse, you can't own a waterfall, you
can't own a dog. You can only own a casino.
PeteSchug
BTW, the potlatch is voluntary.
My uncle (who was a waiter) once got a huge tip from a guy who had only
coffee and some cake. My father was there and said; "Pardon me for asking,
Charlie is my brother in law, and I am curious about the tip you just left.
How does he rate that?" The guy replied, "I'm his bookie, and I'll get it
back!" No doubt he did!
So it is with the potlatch and taxes. Those that have will get it back. Only
those who inherit have to worry, since they seldom have the skills needed to
make money or even to hold on to it.
Nuf said, discourse with you is a waste of time.
Pete
--
Check out my fiddle making site
http://home.att.net/~PeteSchug/
in article 3DF543...@mindspring.com, Ron Hardin at
rhha...@mindspring.com wrote on 12/9/02 8:30 PM:
Ron Hardin
> So it is with the potlatch and taxes. Those that have will get it back. Only
> those who inherit have to worry, since they seldom have the skills needed to
> make money or even to hold on to it.
So why the special worry about instruments being stolen? This placid response
to lost property of others is what contrasts with indignation to lost property
of yourself, each with a moral tone!
May the righteous indignation of God crush out the proud an the unholy.
- Erik Satie (folk singer)
Peter Thomas
<rhha...@mindspring.com> writes
snip
>
>If you visit the rec.bicycles* groups, you can find similar indignation about
>bicycle thieves.
But it was such a good film.
And did it occur to the monk that the thief may already have been a
thief before the theft of the purse?
>Instrument thieves are not mentioned.
So we won't talk about them.
--
Peter Thomas