Oh, you New York Girls...! (info sought)
G. M. Watson
and, like a salmon swimming upstream, I still maintain that it's one of the
best films of the past several years and that grand larceny was committed at
the Oscars when Daniel Day-Lewis was denied the Best Actor award...
Setting those OT comments aside, however, I do have a question concerning
the song Finbar Furey, playing an Irish-immigrant saloonkeeper, sings in one
scene, which is, of course, "New York Girls" (chorus: "Oh, you New York
girls/Can you dance the polka?"). Plebian that I am, the only version of the
song I'm familiar with is one recorded by the Oyster Band some years ago.
The film is set in the year 1862. What I'm wondering is: Would "New York
Girls" have been extant at that time? How old is it likely to be? What are
its origins (Ireland? England? America?)? Who's recorded a good version of
it besides the Oysters?
I suspect that the song owes more to the music-hall tradition than it does
to what is, these days, increasingly loosely referred to as the "folk"
tradition. Nevertheless, I'd be curious to hear any information anyone can
provide about it. (By the way, Furey does a rousing job of singing it, but
is onscreen for less than a minute.)
Howard Jones
started life in the Western Ocean packet ships about the 1830s-1840s, when
the polka reached America.
Howard Jones
"G. M. Watson" <gm...@pop2.intergate.ca> wrote in message
news:vbpikj7...@corp.supernews.com...
Harold Groot
<gm...@pop2.intergate.ca> wrote:
>The film is set in the year 1862. What I'm wondering is: Would "New York
>Girls" have been extant at that time? How old is it likely to be? What are
>its origins (Ireland? England? America?)? Who's recorded a good version of
>it besides the Oysters?
I seem to recall a thread on this song not too long ago. Most likely
Deja or Google can find it for you. I don't recall the details, but
I'm pretty sure the answer is "Yes, the song was around." I'm not
sure if "Can you dance the polka" was in it instead of "They love us
for our money" by that time, however.
David Rintoul
Sounds of the Sea" A Sounds of the World Recording, (c) 1973.
"Can't You Dance the Polka?
Based on the Irish song 'Larry Doolan', this ballad, sung and played by
Michael Cooney, tells the story of a British sailor's adventures -
misadventures might be a better word - in the old port of New York. The
tune's alternative title, 'New York Girls', provides a pretty clear clue as
to what the adventures were concerned with, and if you were to guess that
many versions of it are unprintable, you'd be right on course.
The recurring line in the refrain - Can't you dance the polka? - may be a
sly comment of the provincialism of America, since by the 1840's the polka
had spread from Bohemia to become the new dance sensation. The terms
"limejuice sailor" or "limey" date from 1865, when the Royal Navy began
issuing lime juice to prevent scurvy. The phrase "with his hair cut short
behind" refers to the fact that, toward the end of the packet-ship era,
Yankee seamen were cropping their locks short, while British tars continued
the old tradition of the long braid."
--
David Rintoul
david....@sympatico.ca
http://www3.sympatico.ca/david.rintoul
"In prosperity, our friends know us. In adversity, we know our friends."
J. Churton Collins
Jon Hall
"G. M. Watson" <gm...@pop2.intergate.ca> wrote:
> Setting those OT comments aside, however, I do have a question concerning
> the song Finbar Furey, playing an Irish-immigrant saloonkeeper, sings in one
> scene, which is, of course, "New York Girls" (chorus: "Oh, you New York
> girls/Can you dance the polka?"). Plebian that I am, the only version of the
> song I'm familiar with is one recorded by the Oyster Band some years ago.
> The film is set in the year 1862. What I'm wondering is: Would "New York
> Girls" have been extant at that time? How old is it likely to be? What are
> its origins (Ireland? England? America?)? Who's recorded a good version of
> it besides the Oysters?
Steeleye Span did an *interesting* version, starring Peter Sellers...
Jon.
--
http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/jghall/fairport/
Home of the Fairport Convention mailing list FAQs
Maggie Davey
"G. M. Watson" <gm...@pop2.intergate.ca> wrote in message
news:vbpikj7...@corp.supernews.com...
> the only version of the
> song I'm familiar with is one recorded by the Oyster Band some years ago.
> The film is set in the year 1862. What I'm wondering is: Would "New York
> Girls" have been extant at that time? How old is it likely to be? What are
> its origins (Ireland? England? America?)? Who's recorded a good version
of
> it besides the Oysters?
>
> I suspect that the song owes more to the music-hall tradition than it does
> to what is, these days, increasingly loosely referred to as the "folk"
> tradition. Nevertheless, I'd be curious to hear any information anyone can
> provide about it. (By the way, Furey does a rousing job of singing it, but
> is onscreen for less than a minute.)
www.usnlp.org/songs/ identifies it amongst [American] "Civil War Era
Nautical Songs from the USNLP Songbook", so 1860s would probably be about
right - assuming USNLP have done their homework. It's also discussed in
"Shanties from the Seven Seas" by Stan Hugill and "Songs of American
Sailormen" by Joanna Colcord - both books which have "walked" from my
collection, so I can't look this up. [I don't lend out books anymore.] You
should be able to find them in a good library, I think.
Revels, Inc did a "Sea Revels" extravaganza which included this song, and a
snippet of it can be heard on their website: www.revels.org, but the
recording is a pale shadow of the live performance.
Hope that helps a bit.
Maggie
--
"I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." - Mark Twain
LarryLarry2003
album. The album gives composer credit to Burl Ives.
Larry
rf...@aol.com
1958, from their album At The Hungry i at
http://www.folkusa.org/newyorkgirls.html
G. M. Watson
Wow! Thanks to all for the informative responses. Nice to see that this NG
can still be as useful a resource as it was in days gone by...
limestone-cowboy
yet? ;-)
"G. M. Watson" <gm...@pop2.intergate.ca> wrote in message
news:vbsc4ge...@corp.supernews.com...
>
>
> Wow! Thanks to all for the informative responses. Nice to see that this NG
> can still be as useful a resource as it was in days gone by...
---
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Dominic Cronin
<gm...@pop2.intergate.ca> wrote:
>Setting those OT comments aside, however, I do have a question concerning
>the song Finbar Furey, playing an Irish-immigrant saloonkeeper, sings in one
>scene, which is, of course, "New York Girls" (chorus: "Oh, you New York
>girls/Can you dance the polka?"). Plebian that I am, the only version of the
>song I'm familiar with is one recorded by the Oyster Band some years ago.
>The film is set in the year 1862. What I'm wondering is: Would "New York
>Girls" have been extant at that time? How old is it likely to be? What are
>its origins (Ireland? England? America?)? Who's recorded a good version of
>it besides the Oysters?
>
From my recollection of the film, the version of NYG was pretty much
the bog-standard mainstream version. The version done by the Oyster
band was the first one I ever learned, to my continued regret, as I
can't get the commoner version to stick in my head. Worse still, I
can't even remember the Oyster's version I've never come across their
version anywhere else, so I assume that it is a result of their own
application of "the folk process".
IIRC - the Oysters were too tight to take the girl to Tiffany's -
which might have been wise, as generally the poor limejuice sailor
doesn't even get laid?
NYG is usually classified as a shanty, and is to be found in most
collections of such things.
--
Dominic Cronin
Amsterdam
Chris Ryall
>The film is set in the year 1862.
and David Rintoul replied
>The terms "limejuice sailor" or "limey" date from 1865, when the Royal
>Navy began issuing lime juice to prevent scurvy.
Lovely, informed thread. But putting these two facts together we seem
to have a potential continuity error, albeit by only a few years.
Not having seen the film myself (seems I should) I cannot tell whether
the limejuice verse was used, or some earlier lyric.
--
Chris Ryall (snip spamtram
Wirral-UK to email me)
Bruce Sinclair
>In message <vbpikj7...@corp.supernews.com>
> "G. M. Watson" <gm...@pop2.intergate.ca> wrote:
>
>> Setting those OT comments aside, however, I do have a question concerning
>> the song Finbar Furey, playing an Irish-immigrant saloonkeeper, sings in one
>> scene, which is, of course, "New York Girls" (chorus: "Oh, you New York
>> girls/Can you dance the polka?"). Plebian that I am, the only version of the
>> song I'm familiar with is one recorded by the Oyster Band some years ago.
>> The film is set in the year 1862. What I'm wondering is: Would "New York
>> Girls" have been extant at that time? How old is it likely to be? What are
>> its origins (Ireland? England? America?)? Who's recorded a good version of
>> it besides the Oysters?
>
>Steeleye Span did an *interesting* version, starring Peter Sellers...
.. um ... more correctly, starring minnie bannister and henry crun IIRC. But
yes, sellars voices :)
Bruce
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Andrew Davidson
"Bruce Sinclair" <bruce.s...@NOSPAMagresearch.NOTco.NOTnz> wrote in message
news:nDGva.7909$AB5.1...@news02.tsnz.net...
> In article <7d9569f04...@tiscali.co.uk>, Jon Hall
<jgc....@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
> >In message <vbpikj7...@corp.supernews.com>
> > "G. M. Watson" <gm...@pop2.intergate.ca> wrote:
> >
> >> Setting those OT comments aside, however, I do have a question concerning
> >> the song Finbar Furey, playing an Irish-immigrant saloonkeeper, sings in
one
> >> scene, which is, of course, "New York Girls" (chorus: "Oh, you New York
> >> girls/Can you dance the polka?"). Plebian that I am, the only version of
the
> >> song I'm familiar with is one recorded by the Oyster Band some years ago.
> >> The film is set in the year 1862. What I'm wondering is: Would "New York
> >> Girls" have been extant at that time? How old is it likely to be? What are
> >> its origins (Ireland? England? America?)? Who's recorded a good version of
> >> it besides the Oysters?
> >
> >Steeleye Span did an *interesting* version, starring Peter Sellers...
>
> .. um ... more correctly, starring minnie bannister and henry crun IIRC. But
> yes, sellars voices :)
...and Sellers on ukelele, I believe.
-------------------
Andrew Davidson
David Rintoul
...putting these two facts together we seem to have a potential continuity
error, albeit by only a few years...
-----
According to www.lyricsmania.com, the version in the film script went like
this...
Finbar Furey
New York Girls
VERSE ONE:
Shipmates listen unto me, I'll tell you in my song
Of the things that happened to me
When I come home from Hong Kong
CHORUS:
To me a-weigh, you Santy, My dear Annie
Oh, you New York gals, Can't you dance the polka?
VERSE TWO:
As I walked down on Chatham Street a fair maid I did meet
She asked me please to see her home, she lived on Bleeker Street
Now if you'll only come with me you can have a treat
You can have a glass of brandy and something nice to eat
CHORUS:
VERSE THREE:
Before we sat down to eat we had several drinks
The liquor was so awful strong I quickly fell asleep
CHORUS:
VERSE FOUR:
When I awoke next morning I had an aching head
My gold watch and my pocket-book and my lady friend had fled
In looking round this little room nothing did I see
But a woman's shoes and apron which now belonged to me
CHORUS:
VERSE FIVE:
Now dressed in the lady's apron I wandered most forlorn
Till Martin Churchill took me in and he sent me round Cape Horn
CHORUS: (Twice)
To me a-weigh, you Santy, My dear Annie
Oh, you New York gals, Can't you dance the polka?
--------
The verses are quite different from the National Geographic recording I
have, which I imagine was a more recent rendition. There's no mention of
limes anywhere, so I think we're safe. Imagine if there had been a
historical error in a Hollywood movie! What a relief! :)
Chris Atkinson
<gm...@pop2.intergate.ca> writes
>I do have a question concerning
>the song Finbar Furey, playing an Irish-immigrant saloonkeeper, sings in one
>scene, which is, of course, "New York Girls" (chorus: "Oh, you New York
>girls/Can you dance the polka?"). Plebian that I am, the only version of the
>song I'm familiar with is one recorded by the Oyster Band some years ago.
>it besides the Oysters?
Youth Club (Songs of the Tall Ships). It's credited as collected by
Hugill and arranged by the Spinners. Good? Yes I think so, it's lively
enough and I like it.
Chris A.
--
Chris Atkinson
chr...@cgautc.demon.co.uk UTC Computer Services
Things are more like they are now than they ever were before.
LukeHiNite
Cathedral Quartette in London ca. 1926. A music hall group particular to
shanties, which they recorded in a small series that ran for the Gramophone/HMV
label in the late 1920s.
pvc
susquehanna hat record co.
box 541 rochdale NY 11434
G. M. Watson
York Girls" heard in "Gangs of New York" were so easily found (see below).
However, I'm not sure this set of lyrics are to be heard complete in the
film itself.The Furey character sings the song as he strolls about the
premises of the notorious dive known as Satan's Circus, and there is an
extraordinary amount of activity going on around him as he does so. He's
mostly there to provide additional colour. It's a rousing scene in a fine
film full of rousing scenes, but anyone going to see GONY just to hear "New
York Girls" will probably be disappointed.
Having said that, the film's "executive music producer" was Robbie Robertson
of "The Band" fame, and an extraordinary diversity of musics are to be heard
(although Furey is the only performer seen), including vocals by Maura
O'Connell and Linda Thompson, and instrumental contributions from Davy
Spillane, the Chieftains, Sonny Terry, Eileen Ivers, the Alabama Sacred Harp
Convention, Peter Gabriel, the Afro-Celt Sound System, the Dhol Foundation,
and Othar Turner and the Rising Star Fife and Drum Band(!)... among many
others. Some of these contributions are featured prominently on the
soundtrack during certain scenes, notably the use of Linda Thompson's
rendition of "Paddy's Lamentation" during an extraordinary and grimly ironic
scene wherein we see dozens of coffins being unloaded from a ship while, in
the background, newly-arrived and rather dazed young Irish immigrant men are
pressed into volunteering as fresh cannon fodder for the Union Army (the
film largely takes place against the background of the Civil War and
culminates in the bloody Draft Riots of 1863, in which poor and victimized
Irish immigrants played a major part).
Other pieces, like the Sonny Terry and Othar Turner material, are used as
background music in crowded street or bar scenes to provide "ethnic"
atmosphere. (One of the Oscars the film richly deserved and was denied was
for sound editing.) Scorsese, Robertson and their staff all deserve kudos
for overseeing the assemblage of such a rich panoply of folk and folk-based
musics, certainly the most diverse to be heard in any major film in recent
memory.
----------
In article <ZZRva.2218$mK2.1...@news20.bellglobal.com>, "David Rintoul"