The essential Irish/Scots tunes?
Michael Helm
folks call Irish (& Scottish) "traditional" music --
the traditional dance music, as well as other styles either
slower or vocal or otherwise not associated with dances.
What are the canonical tunes & songs that "everyone" knows?
What are you most likely going to hear in a session & be
asked to play? What tunes are in your rep?
I'd like to hear from a wide variety of places -- I'd particularly
like to get a sample of what the Irish & Scots themselves reckon their
most important (or most over-played :-) trad music is.
I'm grateful for any feedback -- if one thing comes to mind,
or a hundred, thanks, I'd be glad to hear about it. Yes, I
probably have all the books about Irish music, anyway -- my shelves are
groaning under the load of them -- in fact it would be a
great help if, when you post or reply, you could reference the
title back to an item in a specific collection, if by chance you happen
to know it. There are many cases of multiple tune/same title &
same title/multiple tune in Irish collections, probably similarly
for Scotland (with some cross-country mixing too).
Thanks,
Michael Helm
Rosa Michaelson
Melodies(that's volumes I, II, X, XI) which contain all the reels and
jigs and country dance and strathspeys you need to put together the
scottish dance sets. Remember here we only play a tune twice before moving
on to the next one in the dance set - in Ireland they play a tune 3 times
and in New England they just play one tune often! So for a Dashing White
Sargeant you need 3 or 4 tunes(that probably change key more than the
following examples) - The Original(ie DWS), My Love She's just a lassie
yet, Rose Tree, East Neuk of Fife - and for the reprise(the second time
through the dance which occurs almost immediately the first set finishes)
something like - The Original, Bottom of the Punchbowl, The old Gray cat,
Flowers of Edinburgh.
Some may advise you to buy Christine Martine's session books for scottish
music but they are not as good as the original sources of her transcriptions.
Look out for the 45 and counting Royal Scottish Country Dance Society tune
books - if only to marvel at the inginuity of the RSCD imagination!
Any collections of Jimmy Shand or Lindsay Ross give you the additional old
time flavour of good dance tunes.
Gary L. Newell
I think this depends agreat deal on where you intend to play the songs - that
is, who is the audience. I know that in much of the Northeast US you will often
get a good response from sets containing a large pct. of "rebel songs". Grab
any early Wolf Tone's album and you'll find 3-4 common tunes done in a way that
is acceptable to most folks. I wouldn't advise playing "Broad Black Brimmer"
say, in front of some groups though - songs like "Whiskey in the jar", "Wild
Rover", "Mary Mac", "Step it out Mary", are heard often - frankly, I like
a few US songs thrown in - say the Notre Dame fight song or The Battle of
New Orleans but what the heck....
gln
Peter Corless
the Sally Gardens" by Yeats, and "The Wexford Carol." They're some of my
favorites!
Conrad Leviston
secede and become the only country in the world with a decent national anthem.
For what it's worth I like "Star of the County Down", "Buachail an
Eirne" and "Conleach Fomhair an Ghlas" (I think I spelt it correctly), the
latter two of which were done by Clannad. Also, I don't care what anybody
thinks, I like Van Morrison's version of "Carrickfergus" with the Chieftains.
--
| Got to find a brightness in the soul,
| Not look outside to find out where we are,
| Otherwise you won't be satisfied,
| 'Til you've made posession of the stars. (K.Walinger)
Palmer M J
>
> Well, I don't know about any of you, but I reckon Scottland should
>secede and become the only country in the world with a decent national anthem.
What national anthem are you thinking of?
Mike.
Michael Helm
the "essential" Irish & Scottish (but mostly Irish in
this case) tunes. Here are the ones that were mentioned
several times. There are a few others that probably should
be in this group. The order is purely alphabetical.
Banish Misfortune
Down by the Sally Gardens
Flowers of Edinburgh
Give Me Your Hand // Tabhair dom do lamh
Kid on the Mountain [some radically diff't versions of this around]
Marie's Wedding [a/k/a/ "Lewis Wedding Song" ? Has this gotten
recognition from the VM + Chieftains project?
I don't remember hearing it in Irish music 10+ yrs ago]
Off to California
Rights of Man
The Rocky Road to Dublin
Sheebeg 's Sheemore [O'Carolan]
Star of the County Down [There are American forms of this, like
"Lily of the West"]
Whiskey in the Jar
Loch Lomond [from the Scottish respondents; the Irish variant
("Fair is the rose...") of this wasn't mentioned & I haven't
heard it done much in the past 10 years]
There should be a few more in the canon, yes?
------
[What I hear around here (SF Bay Area) (the few that I remember the names of)]
Marie's Wedding
Tabhair dom do lamh
Banish Misfortune
Kid on the Mountain
Rights of Man
Blackberry Blossom
Brian Boru's March
Drunken Landlady
Musical Priest
Off to California
The Paddy on the ...
Sheebeg 's Sheemore
Star of the County Down
----
[Other respondents start here]
"Sheebeg 's Sheemore"
"Whiskey in the Jar"
"Wild Rover"
"Star of the County Down",
"Follow Me up to Carlow"
"Cam Ye Over Frae France",
"High Germany"
"Seven Drunken Nights"
"Gallway Races"
"On the Rocky Road to Dublin".
----
[A wonderful list of tunes from dar...@eecs.ucdavis.edu (Richard Darsie).
Many of these are or should be in the "real" canon, many are quite
often done on recordings anyway.]
REELS: Drowsy Maggie
Star of Munster
Toss the Feathers
Maid behind the Bar
Flowers of Edinburgh
Far from Home (less common)
The Silver Spear
The Mason's Apron
Salley Gardens
Swinging on a Gate
Ships are Sailing
St. Anne's Reel
Whiskey Before Breakfast
The Wise Maid (a hard tune, less commonly known)
Lord McDonald's Reel
many more, I'm sure
JIGS: Kesh Jig
Off She Goes
Haste to the Wedding
Smash the Windows
Swallowtail Jig
Road to Lisdoonvarna
Connaughtman's Rambles
Banish Misfortune
Blarney Pilgrim
Merrily Kiss the Quaker's Wife
Tobin's Favorite
Behind the Bush in the Garden (less common)
Father O'Flynn
Morrison's Jig
Going to the Well for Water
Paddy Clancy's Jig (less common?)
many more, I'm sure
SLIP JIGS: Another Jig Will Do
The Butterfly
Boys of Ballysadare
Kid on the Mountain
HORNPIPES: Rights of Man
Harvest Home
Peacock's Feathers
Am Comhra Donn (The Brown Chest)
Boys of Bluehill
Bantry Bay
The Home Ruler
Off to California
Walsh's Hornpipe
Alexander's Hornpipe
Cooley's Hornpipe (less common)
The Cuckoo's Nest
Jacky Tar (I *think* it's a hornpipe)
Plains of Boyle (less common)
Kitty's Wedding (less common)
many more, I'm sure
POLKAS: Dennis Murphy's
Sean Ryan's
Bill Sullivan's
Ger the Rigger
Britches Full of Stitches
The Rose Tree
The 42 Pound Checque
Johnny Mickey's Polka
If I Had Maggie in the Wood
Peg Ryan's Polka
Ballydesmond Polka
many more, I'm sure
CAROLAN TUNES: Planxty Fanny Power
Planxty George Brabazon
Planxty Irwin
Hewlett
Lord Inchiquin
Carolan's Concerto
Morgan Magan
Shebeg an Shemor (of course)
SLOW AIRS: The South Wind
The Arran Boat
My Home (Scottish)
Miss Rowan Davies (by Phil Cunningham)
Give Me Your Hand
For Ireland I'd Not Tell Her Name
Da Slockit Light (by Tom Anderson)
WALTZES: Midnight on the Water
Amelia's Waltz (by Bob McQuillen)
Margaret's Waltz (by Pat Shaw)
Ook-pik Waltz (aka the Eskimo Waltz)
Gentle Maiden
Star of the County Down (song tune, usually played as a waltz)
----
[Scottish: (from Rosa Michaelson). Most of the bibliography
she mentioned was new to me.]
Essential Scottish Dance Tunes: get the 4 volumes of Kerr's Merry
Melodies(that's volumes I, II, X, XI) which contain all the reels and
jigs and country dance and strathspeys you need to put together the
Sargeant you need 3 or 4 tunes(that probably change key more than the
following examples) - The Original(ie DWS), My Love She's just a lassie
yet, Rose Tree, East Neuk of Fife - and for the reprise(the second time
through the dance which occurs almost immediately the first set finishes)
something like - The Original, Bottom of the Punchbowl, The old Gray cat,
Flowers of Edinburgh.
Some may advise you to buy Christine Martine's session books for scottish
music but they are not as good as the original sources of her transcriptions.
Look out for the 45 and counting Royal Scottish Country Dance Society tune
books - if only to marvel at the inginuity of the RSCD imagination!
Any collections of Jimmy Shand or Lindsay Ross give you the additional old
time flavour of good dance tunes.
------
more scottish
Flower of Scotland
Scotland The Brave
Marie's Wedding
Skye Boat Song
Auld Lang Syne
One that goes ;
Sure by Tummell and Loch Rannoch and Lochaber I will go.."
Tangle(?) of the Isles I think it's called.
The Day We went to Rothsay'o
Loch Lomond (Bonny Banks of..)
Northern Lights (of old Aberdeen)
Roamin' in the Gloamin'
Twa Corbies
Kishmul's Galley
Parcel of Rogues
----
[Came with the comment that rebel songs are quite popular in
the Northeast of the US & NYC ]
"Come out ye Black and Tans"
"Broad Black Brimmer"
"Foggy Dew"
"Off to Dublin"
"Whiskey in the Jar"
"Fields of Athenry"
"Step it out Mary"
----
Swinging on a Gate
Temperance Reel
Flowers of Edinburgh (Scottish)
Irish Washerwoman
Red-haired Boy // The Little Beggarman
-----
"She Moves Through the Fair"
-----
"Planxty Browne"
"Down by the Sally Gardens"
"The Wexford Carol"
----
"Star of the County Down"
"Buachail an Eirne"
"Conleach Fomhair an Ghlas"
"Carrickfergus" (ala VM with the Chieftains)
----
the work of Michael Coleman
[seminal Irish-American fiddler]
Jack Campin
> Here is a summary of the responses I got on the topic of the "essential"
> Irish & Scottish (but mostly Irish in this case) tunes.
> Rights of Man
Is this actually Irish or Scots? I thought it was American (like several
other hornpipes in the Kerr's collection that have American-sounding titles).
Did it ever have words?
> The Cuckoo's Nest
The Official Set Of Dirty Words to this are in The Scottish Folksinger.
I've seen another set of words that were more subtle and rather better
but I forget where.
> Ballydesmond Polka
There at least three of these.
[Rosa suggests:]
> One that goes ;
> Sure by Tummell and Loch Rannoch and Lochaber I will go.."
> Tangle(?) of the Isles I think it's called.
The Road to the Isles. Started out as a pipe march in the early 19th
century, developed various sets of dirty words by the end of it, and was
equipped with the well-known ones by a middle-class moral reformer from
Glasgow in the 1900s (similar process to the Battle Hymn of the Republic).
This from a talk on Radio Scotland's bagpipe slot. Seems the dirty words
are lost, worse luck. The familiar ones are just impossible to take
seriously.
> Loch Lomond (Bonny Banks of..)
There's an edition of Burns' poems that gives the original tune for this,
which is much less glutinous than the one generally used to part American
tourist from their money.
> Twa Corbies
Which tune do you mean? I seems to remember a traditional Scots one, but
the one everybody sings to these words here now is the Breton tune "An
Alarh" (which I have in a Breton songbook, minus translation - what is it
about?). The idea of putting them together was from John Greig the
Edinburgh singer/banjo player, I think. Has the Breton one got outside
Scotland yet?
I'd add The Trumpeter of Fyvie as an essential Scottish song, and Johnny I
Hardly Knew You as an essential Irish one. If you weren't singing it during
the Iraq massacre, learn it for the next one.
--
-- Jack Campin room G092, Computing Science Department, Glasgow University,
17 Lilybank Gardens, Glasgow G12 8RZ, Scotland TEL: 041 339 8855 x6854 (work)
INTERNET: ja...@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk or via nsfnet-relay.ac.uk FAX: 041 330 4913
BANG!net: via mcsun and uknet BITNET: via UKACRL UUCP: ja...@glasgow.uucp
Rosa Michaelson
have to ask what type of American tune? It could be an Irish-American
tune - that is written in Irish style by immigrants, say in Chicago, or
a Scots-American tune, say written in Chicago, or a Scots-American tune,
written in the Appalacians, or a Canadian-Irish tune - Nova Scotia or
the plains, or a Scots-Canadian tune - Nova Scotia, Cape Breton or the
plains. Personally I do not think it is an Old Timey tune (scots-irish-
english-east&southern USA) or a contra dance (scots-english-not much irish
east&new englandy USA) or a german, sedish, polish, french(see cajun), american
indian, afro-american(see banjo, old timey, country blues) etc. In fact it
sounds very much like an Irish hornpipe and is in O'Neills collection, and I
think in a later kerr's volume and also I think in the early fiddler's bible
or Cole's collection published in the states probably using some of the
scottish printers woodblocks. But it could have been composed by someone
like Ed Reavy who lived most of his life in California but wrote in an
Irish idiom. Some say that in fact it is scottish, via Newcastle, from
the playing of Jame Hill and therefore a Dundee tune!! How about the
tune entitled 'The first of May'?? Remembering that titles may change
to follow local needs and celebrations......
Michael Helm
>> Rights of Man
>
>Is this actually Irish or Scots? I thought it was American (like several
I consulted "the Bible" on this: "Folk Music & Dances of Ireland" by
Breanda/n Breathnach. He says (ch 6 sect 3)
"Titles like 'The Rights of Man', 'Madame Bonaparte', & 'Bonaparte's Retreat'
as well as providing a pointer to the period of their composition show
on which side the sympathy of the people of Ireland lay in the revolutionary
period...."
I assume he means _French_ revolutionary period.
Somewhere I read that RoM was composed by somebody about 1791
in honor of a Tom Paine essay (he was living in England or France
by then) called "The Rights of Man", which he wrote in response
to Burke's essay attacking the French Revolution.
>> Ballydesmond Polka
>
>There at least three of these.
Good point; for some tunes there are many names, & for some names,
many tunes. One of the former: I know an OTM fiddle tune
called "Sherman's March to the Sea". The Irish call it
"Bonaparte Crossing the Rhine". As for Ballydesmond Polka:
I know _2_ tunes by this name ... I wonder what the 3rd one is!?!?!
>I'd add The Trumpeter of Fyvie as an essential Scottish song, and Johnny I
>Hardly Knew You as an essential Irish one. If you weren't singing it during
>the Iraq massacre, learn it for the next one.
"Johnny" should certainly be in the canon; don't think it's been mentioned
yet but everybody does it. Incidentally about the Gulf War, Martin
Carthy (& Dave Swarbrick) do a terrific anti-war song based on a
poem sombody wrote about this war. I've never heard it before, it's
not on their record, but those who heard them on their tour last fall
may have heard it. The poem was done by some pub-fixture poet in
England, acc to Carthy's introductory rambling before launching into
the piece; I'm sorry I didn't write it down & it meant nothing to me
until after I heard the song. I'm fishing for more info, does this
sound familiar to anyone?
Iskandar Taib
piece on the Irish boxing team's Cuban coach on TV (during the
coverage of the Olympics) and they had him singing "I remember
Dublin City, in the rare old times" (albeit in a spanish accent)..
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Iskandar Taib | The only thing worse than Peach ala
Internet: NT...@SILVER.UCS.INDIANA.EDU | Frog is Frog ala Peach
Bitnet: NTAIB@IUBACS !
Toby Koosman
>
>> Rights of Man
>
>Is this actually Irish or Scots? I thought it was American (like several
>other hornpipes in the Kerr's collection that have American-sounding titles).
>Did it ever have words?
>
metre (as Rights of Man always, to my knowledge, is), but sped up to reel
tempo so they fit American dances. I've always assumed that a tune like
"Fisher's Hornpipe" must have started life as an Irish or Scots tune, otherwise
I can't explain the name. But there is the Irish immigration to complicate
things. A lot of these tunes with American names may have been composed
(or at least named) here, but the origin of the originator is another matter.
Is "Off to California" an American tune? Was it always?
Toby Koosman
University of Tennessee Knoxville, Tennessee USA
Internet: koo...@utkvx.utk.edu Bitnet: koosman@utkvx
Rosa Michaelson
true only of certain regions and certain dances. Often a reel is played as
a hornpipe or a hornpipe as a hornpipe for the dance 'Nottingham Swing' which
has been reported at some workshops/contra dance sessions. However the
Newcastle method(thats Newcastle UK) of making a Hornpipe a 'Rant' or smooth,
fast reel may have travelled to some parts of the states. Bagpipers universally
play hornpipes in smooth, rapid form and reels with a slower, dotted measure.
In fact the more rules for playing a tune you think of the more these rules
appear to have some one some where breaking them! See De Dannen and 'Hey Jude'.
James Moore
>Bagpipers universally
>play hornpipes in smooth, rapid form and reels with a slower, dotted measure.
Huh? It's exactly the opposite. Reels are the smooth, fast ones, and
hornpipes are the slow syncopated tunes.
--
James Moore /|\ ja...@wrs.com
Wind River Systems \|/ Alameda, California
"Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half
didn't mean anything at all"
Rosa Michaelson
in my experience many bagpipers do this. Yes - other people(ie scottish fiddlers
and irish concertina players) think it crazy too. However if you've ever
tried playing fiddle with a piper(wether highland bagpipes or a small scottish
piper - I mean a piper of the small scottish pipes!!) you would find that the
first statement above is the actual facts. Perhaps American pipers are not
so topsy-turvey. Though I have found NO academic work on the subject it is my
theory that the technological requirements of the instrument determine the
easiest interpretation of a tune, not the dance steps. In fact it is often
remarked that for a dance 'any old tune will do', and I have played jigs,
reels and hornpipes for the same dance in experiment and the dancers did
not notice. I could make this experiment even more tortuous by changing the
dotted nature of the clusters of notes - or by turning a jig into a reel.(see
my earlier comment on de Dannen and Hey jude). And note that as said earlier
in Newcastle a RANT is the reel version of a hornpipe and in Scotland a
schottishe can be played as a strathspey or a hornpipe(where hornpipe means
a dotted couplet style - not an Irish set dance tune!). A good reference for
this is Honeyman's Hornpipe tutor which shows the scottish, newcastle and sand
dance versions of the same tune, published at the turn of the century.
Ian Watson
|> Jack Campin writes:
|>
|> >I'd add The Trumpeter of Fyvie as an essential Scottish song, and Johnny I
|> >Hardly Knew You as an essential Irish one. If you weren't singing it during
|> >the Iraq massacre, learn it for the next one.
|>
|> "Johnny" should certainly be in the canon; don't think it's been mentioned
|> yet but everybody does it. Incidentally about the Gulf War, Martin
|> Carthy (& Dave Swarbrick) do a terrific anti-war song based on a
|> poem sombody wrote about this war. I've never heard it before, it's
|> not on their record, but those who heard them on their tour last fall
|> may have heard it. The poem was done by some pub-fixture poet in
|> England, acc to Carthy's introductory rambling before launching into
|> the piece; I'm sorry I didn't write it down & it meant nothing to me
|> until after I heard the song. I'm fishing for more info, does this
|> sound familiar to anyone?
A wild guess might suggest Leon Rosselson: he writes anti war songs and Martin Carthy has done some his songs I think. I suppose he could be described as a "pub-fixture poet"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ian Watson
i...@uk.ac.turing
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
U52...@uicvm.uic.edu
I am new to this news group as well as new to mainframes as well, I hope I'm
going about this correctly, so here goes! I will be visiting Scotland(Aberdeen)
and Ireland at Christmas time for about thirty days. Are there any people out
there who would like to correspond,either by e-mail or letter(preferably) until
I arrive there. I 'm a university student, majoring in english. So, if your fro
m either Scotland or Ireland I'd love to here from you.
Mary Ellen Flynn
3136 W. 43rd St.
Chicago, Ill. 60632