"Mary Ellen Carter" a true story?

[E.M. Auvers]

As long as we were on a ship song thread, I thought I'd ask if Stan Roger's
song "Mary Ellen Carter" was based on a true incident. Anyone know?

-- Salieri
"The Patron Saint of Mediocrity"
AUV...@DRYVCAS.BITNET // AUV...@DRYCAS.CLUB.CC.CMU.EDU

[Nathan Tenny]

The "liner notes" in the _Songs from Fogarty's Cove_ songbook sound as if
the song is totally fictitious, if memory serves. They usually note when
a song is more or less true...

On another note, does anyone know exactly where "White Squall" (from the
_From Fresh Water_ album) is set? I don't know the Great Lakes region well
enough to parse the place-names.

NT

[lopresti robert]

Stan got asked that a lot and he said it was not a true story, although
plenty of stories like it had happened. In other words, he made up the
name and he wasn't writing about a particular ship...

On the other hand, his song "Man With Blue Dolphin," is aobut a real
life ship salvaging project. BUt its not as good a song.

When I saw Stan in concert, the one and only time, he explained that
MEC was partly inspired by listening to the Grand Old Opry as a kid
'and wanting to write an inspirational song that was "nonreligious
nondenominational and nonfattening."

If you have seen the video ONE WARM LINE: The Legacy of Stan Rogers
you know that at least one shipwreck survivor claims that singing
MEC is what kept him alive on a cold wet night...

[Don Coolidge]

First: a big plug for ONE WARM LINE - it's a wonderful tribute (I hesitate
to call anything longer than 4 minutes a "video"; at a bit less than an
hour, ONE WARM LINE is more like a documentary). It's full of live tape
of Stan singing "Barett's Privateers" around a beer-laden kitchen table;
excerpts from real videos with Stan outdoors, lip-synching some of his
earliest recordings; great interviews with Stan, his friends, and family;
and a fantastic amount of information and song. It can be had both from
Festival Records in Vancouver (the music distributionarm of the Vancouver
Folk Music Festival) and from Valerie Enterprises, Stan's mother's business
that's always distributed Stan's (and Garnet's) material.

Second: There are rumors that there will soon be another Stan-live-in-concert
album released; anybody have any confirmation or other real info?

Third: That shipwrecked sailor got to meet Stan at the last concert he
did in Cambridge, at Paine Hall, Harvard U. Stan was very touched by
the meeting...(a prize to the first person who knows who opened that
concert for Stan...:^)

- Don Coolidge

[Brian Wing]

cool...@speaker.wpd.sgi.com (Don Coolidge) writes:
.
.
.
:
: Third: That shipwrecked sailor got to meet Stan at the last concert he

: did in Cambridge, at Paine Hall, Harvard U. Stan was very touched by
: the meeting...(a prize to the first person who knows who opened that
: concert for Stan...:^)
:
: - Don Coolidge

Wasn't it Bill Morrissey? (I hope spelling doesn't count - not sure
about the 'r's and 's's.)
--
Brian Wing Software Support Critter
Data General (Canada) Inc.
130-13151 Vanier Pl., Richmond dotdot: brian...@canada.ceo.dg.com
B.C., Canada V6V 2J2 "Hello?": +1 604 273 5100

[Rachel Willmer]

E.M.> As long as we were on a ship song thread, I thought I'd ask if Stan Roger's
E.M.> song "Mary Ellen Carter" was based on a true incident. Anyone know?

Check out the acapella version of this song by Artisan, it's great!
--

Rachel Willmer Spider Systems
rac...@spider.co.uk Spider Park, Stanwell Street
+44 31 554 9424 Edinburgh, Scotland

[Mark Eklof]

In article <1992Nov9.2...@nntp.uoregon.edu>, Nathan Tenny writes:
>
> On another note, does anyone know exactly where "White Squall" (from the
> _From Fresh Water_ album) is set? I don't know the Great Lakes region well
> enough to parse the place-names.

Stan might have, if it was a real incident. I've never
considered the question before, since while it was obvious that it
happened on one of the Great Lakes, it never seemed to matter which
one. Below is my best guess, though.

While I'm not familiar with the Great Lakes region, either,
two minutes with an atlas led me to a guess of Lake Huron. The song
mentions Wiarton, Ontario as the home of the fiance' of the "kid", and
the liner notes indicate that many of the towns residents ship on the
lakes. Wiarton is on Lake Huron. The only other place reference I
get from the song is "...as we roll North to the 'Soo'." I'll take a
WAG that this refers to Sault Ste. Marie, on the Northwest end of Lake
Huron.

Mark
--
Mark D. Eklof
Co-os Grange (ASCII translit - omit the dash with two dots above second 'o'.)
Brookline, New Hampshire, USA

m...@stile.stonemarche.org

I remember when all this will be again.

[John Ackermann]

m...@stile.stonemarche.org (Mark Eklof) writes:

> While I'm not familiar with the Great Lakes region, either,
>two minutes with an atlas led me to a guess of Lake Huron. The song
>mentions Wiarton, Ontario as the home of the fiance' of the "kid", and
>the liner notes indicate that many of the towns residents ship on the
>lakes. Wiarton is on Lake Huron. The only other place reference I
>get from the song is "...as we roll North to the 'Soo'." I'll take a
>WAG that this refers to Sault Ste. Marie, on the Northwest end of Lake
>Huron.

That's a pretty good guess. I've always thought the song was pretty
applicable to any of the Lakes; the ships and lines usually aren't
limited to any single lake, so the Wiarton lads could as easily be on
Superior or Michigan.

You can "roll north to the Soo" on Lake Michigan, though, as a very busy
route is north from ports in Milwaukee, Chicago, Calumet, etc., up to
the Straits (of Mackinac), then east and north to the Soo, and finally
west through the locks into Lake Superior. In fact, that's the route
the Edmund Fitzgerald (see another thread...) was on when she sunk in
Lake Superior (actually I think she was southbound out of Duluth, but
without any references here I'm not sure).

Anyway, the real comment I wanted to add is that the existence of the
"white squall" isn't clearly proven. There are a bunch of
meteorologists who say the phenomenon just doesn't exist.

I don't know about that, but I grew up on Wisconsin's Door Peninsula
(the thumb that sticks out into Lake Michigan -- it's only about three
miles wide at the part where I lived) and I can attest to the speed with
which a squall can come across the water out of the northwest on a
summer day. More than one tourist has taken "just one more ski run" and
gotten clobbered.

Stan's right -- "don't take these lakes for granted."

John

--
John R. Ackermann, Jr. Law Department, NCR Corporation, Dayton, Ohio
(513) 445-2966 John.Ac...@daytonoh.ncr.com
Packet Radio: ag9v@n8acv tcp/ip: ag...@ag9v.ampr [44.70.12.34]

[Duane E. Collicott]

In article <0U-Yr*v...@stile.stonemarche.org> m...@stile.stonemarche.org (Mark Eklof) writes:
>In article <1992Nov9.2...@nntp.uoregon.edu>, Nathan Tenny writes:
>>
>> On another note, does anyone know exactly where "White Squall" (from the
>> _From Fresh Water_ album) is set? I don't know the Great Lakes region well
>> enough to parse the place-names.
>

> While I'm not familiar with the Great Lakes region, either,
>two minutes with an atlas led me to a guess of Lake Huron. The song
>mentions Wiarton, Ontario as the home of the fiance' of the "kid", and
>the liner notes indicate that many of the towns residents ship on the
>lakes. Wiarton is on Lake Huron. The only other place reference I
>get from the song is "...as we roll North to the 'Soo'." I'll take a
>WAG that this refers to Sault Ste. Marie, on the Northwest end of Lake
>Huron.

You got it. Sault Ste. Marie is pronounced "Soo Saint Marie" (sorry -
maybe you already knew that!), commonly referred to as "the Soo", like in
the Soo Line Railroad. Wiarton is on the Bruce Peninsula, on the
Georgian Bay side. From those liner notes, I interpeted that he made-up
that event after listening to the stories people in Wiarton told him.
It does have a very real feel to it, though.

Also... Tobermory, mentioned in the song about the Midland is up on the
point of the peninsula, and the song about the battle involving the Nancy
takes place in the Detroit River.
_______________________________________________________________________________
Duane Collicott
coll...@brutus.aa.ab.com

"If you could see far enough you'd be looking at the back of your own head"
- Unknown
_______________________________________________________________________________

[Matt Condon]

te...@euclid.uucp writes:
>
> The "liner notes" in the _Songs from Fogarty's Cove_ songbook sound as if
> the song is totally fictitious, if memory serves. They usually note when
> a song is more or less true...

_Songs from Fogarty's Cove_ songbook? I haven't seen that
before. Who publishes it? What form is the music in (piano,
guitar tab, etc.)? Where can I get it?

[Nathan Tenny]

In article <1992Nov16....@Virginia.EDU> ml...@Virginia.EDU ("Matt Condon") writes:
>_Songs from Fogarty's Cove_ songbook? I haven't seen that
>before. Who publishes it? What form is the music in (piano,
>guitar tab, etc.)? Where can I get it?

Let's see. I can't remember who published it; if you send me a piece of
the reminding sort of email I'll look it up at home. It has chords, melodies,
& lyrics, along with vague hints about the picking patterns. No harmonies,
unfortunately.

It only has the first four albums, but it does have the covers as well as
Stan's original material, and it's helpful about things like tunings.

I stumbled on it in a folk/"world-beat"/esoterica record store, buried in a
bunch of unremarkable banjo and harmonica method books.

NT

[J. Lani Herrmann]

My copy of Songs from Fogarty's Cove indicates it was published by OFC
Publications (A division of the Ottawa Folklore Centre, PO Box 4061,
Stn 'E,' Ottawa, Ontario, Canada, or 744 Bronson Ave., Ottawa etc K1S 4G3.
ISBN 0-919141-01-3. It also bears the copyright notice: "Photocopying this
book is illegal, immoral, and can lead to other anti-social behaviour."
I've the impression it is still available from such universal distributors
as Elderly (1100 N Washington, P O Box 14210, Lansing, MI 48901). In their
1991 catalog it is listed for around $16. -- Lani

[J. Lani Herrmann]

There is a Folklore Society of Greater Washington, which publishes a monthly
newsletter that covers much activity. If you write FSGW, Box 5693, Friendsip
(that's Friendship!) Heights Sta., Washington, DC 20016, and ask nicely,
they may send you one. Newsletter, that is. There is also an FSGW Hotline
, (703) 281-2228, which may either be a real human or a recording, perhaps
even a calendar. They list dances, too, as well as events not in the immediate
metropolitan area.
Washington is also the home of the American Folklife Center supported
by your tax dollars in the Library of Congress, and the Smithsonian also
has a division? department? of folklife programs which sponsors the annual
summer festival on the mall, not to mention Smithsonian Folkways which inheritedMoses Asch's incredible archive and is striving to keep it all in print --
There is also at least one Irish session, but I dunno where it is now.
Sum: There's an awful lot to do and see, more than you probably have time for.
Enjoy. -- Lani

[Wayne Greene]

te...@euclid.uucp (Nathan Tenny) writes:

> In article <1992Nov16....@Virginia.EDU> ml...@Virginia.EDU ("Matt Con

> >_Songs from Fogarty's Cove_ songbook? I haven't seen that
> >before. Who publishes it? What form is the music in (piano,
> >guitar tab, etc.)? Where can I get it?
>

"Songs From Fogarty's Cove", published by OFC Publications,
(A Division of the Ottawa Folklore Centre, Ltd)
PO Box 4061, Stn. 'E',
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

ISBN: 0-919141-01-3 copyright 1982 by OFC Publications

Wayne G.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
oldblev!wgr...@oldblev.lonestar.org (Wayne Greene)
Old Blevins Productions +1 214 352 5584 | GEnie: R.GREENE17 |
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[christoph...@gmail.com]

Thanks for this thread. I've been singing my eight-year-old daughter to sleep with MEC, and she and I both got to wondering about whether the story was real.

To be honest, I'm mostly just posting to see what date stamp comes up - if I'm reading this right, it's 1992, which would mean that this conversation is happening in the very early days of the World Wide Web. Makes sense why you guys are quoting actual personal knowledge, rather just than referencing a webpage. So cool - thank you, from the fututre!

[stevea...@gmail.com]

I can tell you from three personal experiences that the white squalls are very real. We called then “line squalls” because they whip the top of the lake right off and it forms a white line from horizon to horizon as is rushes at you. I have seen two of them on Georgian Bay (off Lake Huron) back in the 50s go from calm to between 60 to 80 knots in less than a minute and In the early years of the 21st century one of them was recorded at 100 knots in places. We only got 85 knots out of that one on the southeast shore of Georgian Bay but that was plenty. It knocked out power all across Ontario.

The line squalls or white squalls almost always move from west to east as a frontal system. They seem to occur on hot, sultry summer day and are followed by cold air.

[mandra...@gmail.com]

I called the local LPR (Liberal Public Radio) station when they had a meteorologist guest, and asked about the song. Nobody on the show that day knew the song, which did not help with communication, but he said it sounded like a line squall, and that seems reasonable to me. As the sun goes down the air could cool from the top, and in a large flat area in a "sultry Summer calm" the cooler, more dense air might not break through for quite a while, so then when it does get started there would be a lot of energy available. On a dark night I suppose there would be nothing to warn anyone until the wind hit the ship, and then what they would see is that the ##!%&# weather went from calm to 100 knots.

[hub...@ccanoemail.ca]

On Mon, 14 Jan 2019 18:33:55 -0800 (PST), mandra...@gmail.com
wrote:

> the local radio station had a meteorologist guest, and asked about the song.
>Nobody on the show that day knew the song, which did not help ..,

>but he said it sounded like a line squall, and that seems reasonable to me.
>As the sun goes down the air could cool from the top, and in a large flat area
>in a "sultry Summer calm" the cooler, more dense air might not break through
>for quite a while, so then when it does get started there would be a lot of energy available.
> On a dark night I suppose there would be nothing to warn anyone until the wind hit the ship,
> and then what they would see is that the ##!%&# weather went from calm to 100 knots.

Perhaps a google search might provide some explanation ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_squall

" White squalls are rare at sea, but common on the Great Lakes .. "

John T.


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