Jane, Jane, Come to the Glen??????
Abby Sale
Up at Mystic, a song with key-phrase "Jane, Jane, Come to the Glen??????"
was sung several times & seemed well known. We were taken with it but
never heard it before. (Or maybe there's some dim memory of it from 30+
years ago.) Don't see it in any of my sea or folk references.
I'd be much gratitudinous for words and any available background.
Especially the last line of the chorus.
I thank you.
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- ---
I am Abby Sale - abby...@orlinter.com (That's in Orlando)
anni.fentiman
has more welsh in it. I wouldn't like to spell the last line of the
chorus as my welsh is non existant but I belive it means beautiful Jane;
Siany (sounds like Fac fine) I'm sure someone can correct that for you.
Anni
--
Ruth Meakin
In article <35908d9...@cnews.newsguy.com>, Abby Sale
<abby...@orlinter.com> writes
>
>Up at Mystic, a song with key-phrase "Jane, Jane, Come to the Glen??????"
>was sung several times & seemed well known. We were taken with it but
>never heard it before. (Or maybe there's some dim memory of it from 30+
>years ago.) Don't see it in any of my sea or folk references.
>
>I'd be much gratitudinous for words and any available background.
>Especially the last line of the chorus.
>
record called Yorkshire Relish (I have been unable to find myself a
copy). Hobby Derri Dando is the title of the song. The last line? Ha,
ha. I sing: "To sing in praise to Johhny bach van" but could be any
variation on that :-)
--
Ruth Meakin
The Anchor
http://www.anchor-sitv.demon.co.uk
mailto:ru...@anchor-sitv.demon.co.uk ***"acronyx" noun, ingrowing nail***
Andrew A. Alexis
>In article <35908d9...@cnews.newsguy.com>, Abby Sale
><abby...@orlinter.com> writes
>>
>>Up at Mystic, a song with key-phrase "Jane, Jane, Come to the Glen??????"
>>was sung several times & seemed well known. We were taken with it but
>>never heard it before. (Or maybe there's some dim memory of it from 30+
>>years ago.) Don't see it in any of my sea or folk references.
>>
>>I'd be much gratitudinous for words and any available background.
>>Especially the last line of the chorus.
>>
>I sing a version learned from a Derek & Dorothy Elliott and Nadine
>record called Yorkshire Relish (I have been unable to find myself a
>copy). Hobby Derri Dando is the title of the song. The last line? Ha,
>ha. I sing: "To sing in praise to Johhny bach van" but could be any
>variation on that :-)
My favorite version of this is the one by William Pint and Felicia
Dale. Visit their CD publisher at:
http://www.waterbug.com/pint_and_dale.html
and their own web site at:
http://members.aol.com/Pintndale/
These are the lyrics they sing:
Hob Y Derri Dando
traditional
I’ll sing the bass and you sing the solo
Hob-y-derri-dando
All about the clipper ship the Marco Polo
Can-y-gan-y-eto
See her rolling through the water
Jane sweet Jane
Wish I was in bed
with the old man’s daughter
Jane, Jane, come to the glen
To sing praise to Sean Foch Foyn
Davy, Davy comes from Nevin
An’ he’s got a sweet little engine
An he thinks so much about it
That he cannot do without it
Crusher Bailey had a sister
Laughed like blazes
when you kissed her
Couldn’t knit nor darn no stocking
But what she could do was shocking
Johnny Jones, he wants a missus
someone to keep him warm with kisses
take him round to Bailey’s sister
she’s so hot she’ll raise a blister
Andy Alexis
Sacramento, CA. "The Pearl of the Central Valley"
nd...@no-spam.calweb.com
You know what to do...
Joseph C Fineman
abby...@orlinter.com (Abby Sale) writes:
>Up at Mystic, a song with key-phrase "Jane, Jane, Come to the
>Glen??????" was sung several times & seemed well known. We were
>taken with it but never heard it before. (Or maybe there's some dim
>memory of it from 30+ years ago.) Don't see it in any of my sea or
>folk references.
A version is on one of the Oscar Brand bawdy records of which I sent
you tapes. The song either is a version of, or has been extensively
conflated with, the Welsh song "Crayshaw [a/k/a Cosher, Crusher]
Bailey", which was originally a comic song about a railway engine
driver (U.S.: railroad engineer), but has picked up a lot of
nonsensical and/or mildly salacious stanzas along the way. In
particular, Brand calls it "Crusher Bailey". Ewan MacColl sings it to
another tune, with a very different refrain, on _British Industrial
Ballads_, and there is a fair selection of stanzas in _The
Folksinger's Wordbook_. If these are really two different songs, then
MacColl's version is probably the original Crayshaw Bailey.
--- Joe Fineman j...@world.std.com
||: It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle :||
||: if it is lightly greased. :||
PAULSBANJO
> Crusher Bailey had a sister
> Laughed like blazes
> when you kissed her
> Couldn’t knit nor darn no stocking
> But what she could do was shocking
>
> Johnny Jones, he wants a missus
> someone to keep him warm with kisses
> take him round to Bailey’s sister
> she’s so hot she’ll raise a blister
>Andy Alexis
Hi Andy
The last two verses are from "Cosher Baily's Engine" (Ewen MacColl)
Cosher Bailey had an Engine
It was always wantin mendin
On the night run up from Gower
It could go nine mile an hour
ch
Did you ever see
Did you ever see
Did you ever see
such a funny thing before
etc.
Yours Paul
Sian Thomas
anni.fentiman wrote in message <358FAA...@virgin.net>...
>It is a Welsh Shanty, known as Hob y derry dando, sometimes the chorus
>has more welsh in it. I wouldn't like to spell the last line of the
>chorus as my welsh is non existant but I belive it means beautiful Jane;
There are actually a couple of Hob i deri dando songs and, as I'm in work
today, I can't give you chapter and verse until later. I'll send the Welsh
lyrics, and I probably have some English ones somewhere. I'll check out the
history for you, but don't count on the Welsh words matching the English, as
there was a Victorian tradition (well, really the same as the folk tradition
I suppose) of writing new, acceptable lyrics to old tunes.
>Siany (sounds like Fac fine) I'm sure someone can correct that for you.
Again, without looking it up, it's probably Siani Fach fain (pronounced
SHAN-ee Vach Vine, remembering the *ch* is pronounced with that gutteral
roll also found in German) and it means Slender Little Siani/Janey.
I'll get back with more details
Sian (neither slim nor slender) Thomas
http://www.telecottages.org/iws
Y gerdd orau, cerdd at dy waith
ICQ #11650729
Nigel & Nancy Sellars
Joseph C Fineman wrote:
<original snipped>
The words are also in the long out of print book which goes with the
Bawdy Songs and Backroom Ballads series. I'll try to find my copy, but
it's stashed away in a box at the moment. "Cosher" Bailey actually
seems to have been a railway builder -- rather like the more famous
Stephenson of "Stephenson's Rocket" -- who legend has it had one of his
engines stop stone dead in a tunnel while he was driving it, just one of
a run of bad luck apparently. One verse mentions this. As Joe notes,
it seems to have acquired any number of salacious verses since then.
On the other hand, the "Hoby derry dando" and "Jane sweet jane" lines
might be from another, perhaps older song as well, but I have no
knowledge on that issue.
Nigel Sellars
Abby Sale
On Tue, 23 Jun 1998 21:49:30 GMT, j...@world.std.com (Joseph C Fineman)
wrote:
>abby...@orlinter.com (Abby Sale) writes:
>
>>Up at Mystic, a song with key-phrase "Jane, Jane, Come to the
>
>A version is on one of the Oscar Brand bawdy records of which I sent
>you tapes. The song either is a version of, or has been extensively
>conflated with, the Welsh song "Crayshaw [a/k/a Cosher, Crusher]
>Bailey", which was originally a comic song about a railway engine
>driver (U.S.: railroad engineer), but has picked up a lot of
>nonsensical and/or mildly salacious stanzas along the way. In
I hadn't picked up the Crusher Bailey verse in "Hob Y Derri Dando" (thanks
Andy) I guess he was pretty famous there. But not particularly associated
with the _Marco Polo_.
We wrote:
>> These seem different aspects of the same Welsh memories, but surely
>> the same song. Except that Crusher seems to spend some time sailing
>> on the _Marco Polo_ (of the Black Ball Line.) Concievably confusing
>> him with Captain "Bully" Forbes. _Marco Polo_, of course, was a
>> sailing ship.
>I have been, at times, under the impression that that Brand's version,
>in which the _Marco Polo_ appears, is an Irish version of the original
>Welsh song. Perhaps some philologist can tell us whether "Hob y deri
>dando" in the former has degenerated from Gaelic or from Welsh %^).
So your memory is still pretty good!
Following that exchange, the "Happy" file editors came up with:
"As a result of the Grouping (ie, of 123 seperate railway companies into
just four) the Taff Vale Railway ended as an entity on 1 Jan 1922. The
original 1836 line ran 32 miles, including some short branches, from
Merthyr Tydfil to Cardiff Docks. Its coal traffic became enormous, as
shown by its having 271 locomotives working over just 124 miles. The line
was built by the ironmaster, Cosher Bailey. Personally driving the engine
on its first trip, he got stuck in a tunnel"
So I guess the chantey is intermixed with the other. Perhaps Crusher
Bailey became the Welsh Paul Bunyon.
But the chantey seems a very different song - but maybe the first lines of
MacColl's "Crusher" & "Hob.." _are_ the same tune after all. (Oi!)
Abby Sale
On Tue, 23 Jun 1998 09:18:57 GMT, nd...@no-spam.calweb.com (Andrew A.
Alexis) wrote:
>
>My favorite version of this is the one by William Pint and Felicia
>Dale. Visit their CD publisher at:
I've seen their name on r.m.f several times but hadn't heard them until
just briefly at Mystic. They're good.
>Hob Y Derri Dando
> traditional
>
> Jane, Jane, come to the glen
> To sing praise to Sean Foch Foyn
>
Thank you extremely for this. (I assume, since you've gone to all the
trouble to type this out, you've sent it up to Digital Tradition where it
at this time of the April 1998 edition ain't yet.)
I'm still much interested to learn of translations, versions, background,
etc. "Sean Foch Foyn???" I think the Mystic people sang it slightly
different & they did add some verses. But as others have already posted,
variations & mis-Welshification may occur.
From your info, I did visit the Pint & Dale Web site - they say:
"...is one of the few shanties that we’ve run across of Welsh origin. The
chorus has been partly Anglicized. In true folk tradition, we’ve added a
verse of our own invention."
Abby Sale
On Wed, 24 Jun 1998 10:13:54 +0100, "Sian Thomas" <si...@iws.cymru.net>
wrote:
>I'll send the Welsh
>lyrics, and I probably have some English ones somewhere. I'll check out the
>history for you, but don't count on the Welsh words matching the English, as
>there was a Victorian tradition (well, really the same as the folk tradition
>I suppose) of writing new, acceptable lyrics to old tunes.
>
>>Siany (sounds like Fac fine) I'm sure someone can correct that for you.
>
>Again, without looking it up, it's probably Siani Fach fain (pronounced
>SHAN-ee Vach Vine, remembering the *ch* is pronounced with that gutteral
>roll also found in German) and it means Slender Little Siani/Janey.
>
>I'll get back with more details
Please do. Please. I know very few Welsh speakers here in Orlando.
(Actually met the first here only yesterday. She learned some Welsh just
after learning conversational Croatian.)
Abby
S Thomas
>>I'll send the Welsh lyrics, and I probably have some English ones
somewhere...
>>I'll get back with more details
And Abby:
>Please do. Please. I know very few Welsh speakers here in Orlando.
I think I'm going to be very sorry that I got involved in this!!!
First, I'll ask in Cymraeg-L (Welsh learners' group) if there's anyone in
Orlando. I know one of the best learners is in Florida somewhere...
OK, so Hob y Deri Dando. I've been on the phone to my friend Phyllis, who's
one of THE authorities on Welsh folk music (and an american, interestingly)
and she's given me some crib notes on this.
Two versions: one North, one South Wales. More or less the same words, but
different(-ish) tunes. The North Wales tune is probably the best known and
most used currently, but *usually* with words written this century by a
famous Welsh poet, Crwys, about Uncle Dafydd and his suit of homespun cloth
courting Siân Fwyn (Gentle). The words largely quoted in this thread are
the Crawshay/Cosher Baily words (often sung to quite a different tune here
in South Wales) and very popular in the 70s with the rugby fraternity.
The interesting thing about all this is that it is just an extension of the
very old Welsh tradition of *canu penillion* - singing verses. You use a
popular tune, usually with a nonsense alternative lines, and sing a
hotch-potch of verses to them as the mood moves the singer. Or in groups it
becomes *ymryson canu* - contest singing (but more like *bandying* verses).
So, one singer sings his/her verse then someone else has to take it up with
something else that fits (either traditional or invented on the spot).
Probably anyone who has been to summer camp as a kid has done this sort of
thing. (Remember, *There were turtles, turtles, wearing Playtex girdles ...
in the store, in the store?)
Hob y Deri Dando was probably collected first by a man named William Jones
around the end of the 18th C. He says that it was noted down from a very old
man in the Llangadfan area who, "used to sing with stops and trips". Now, I
don't know what tune you people are using, but the meter sounds to me like
the North Wales one. *Stops and trips* refer to the harp accompaniment
which would have stood in stead of the Hob y Deri Dando line. When we sing
it, we tend to (??) draw out the *dando* to another full bar, and straight
into the next line, but the harpers would, apparently rap three times.
("hob y der-i dan-do *tap* *tap* *tap*) Those are the stops.
Unfortunately, the meaning of *trips* fails Phyllis, but I could ask a
harper if you're THAT keen for info ...
Now, Phyllis' husband is the OTHER authority - but more on the word side
than the music, and he reckons that this could be much older than 18th
century and connected with an ancient meter of poetry - but I'm not going to
explain that either unless anyone is REAL interested.
I must say they were both VERY interested in Andrew's words, particularly
*Can-y-gan-y-eto" which is a garbled version of the 3rd line of one Welsh
version: Dyma ganu eto. (Duh-mah GAN-ee e-to) or (lit.) Here's the singing
of it again. Also, the sea-shanty words, as it was never thus connected here
in Wales.
I'll finish with this next bit, as this message is WAY too long ... If
anyone tells you that the song is an ancient call to worship by the Druid's,
laugh and look superior. Nope. That story was set rolling by the original
publisher (Edward Jones) in 1794 when London was a-wash with (re-)creating
a romanticized Druidic movement. EJ took it from Wm. Jones' report that Hob
y deri dando referred to the Oak grove. Yeh, OK, Oaks = druids ... but it
was also a choice spot for young lovers, which brings us tidily back to
Jane, Jane, come to the Glen which was, in Welsh, Siân, Siân, come into the
bushes (nudge, nudge, wink, wink)
Thus endeth the lesson?
Sian
(all offers considered on their merit, nudge, nudge, wink, wink ...)
Andrew A. Alexis
On Wed, 24 Jun 1998 19:37:16 -0400, abby...@orlinter.com (Abby Sale)
wrote:
>On Tue, 23 Jun 1998 09:18:57 GMT, nd...@no-spam.calweb.com (Andrew A.
>Alexis) wrote:
>>
>>My favorite version of this is the one by William Pint and Felicia
>>Dale. Visit their CD publisher at:
>
>I've seen their name on r.m.f several times but hadn't heard them until
>just briefly at Mystic. They're good.
>
>Thank you extremely for this. (I assume, since you've gone to all the
>trouble to type this out, you've sent it up to Digital Tradition where it
>at this time of the April 1998 edition ain't yet.)
Actually, no: they have all the lyrics to their songs on their web
site...
They have a knack for picking great songs.
Joseph C Fineman
Nigel & Nancy Sellars <nsel...@telepath.com> writes:
>The words are also in the long out of print book which goes with the
>Bawdy Songs and Backroom Ballads series. I'll try to find my copy,
>but it's stashed away in a box at the moment.
In case you fail, I can copy it for you out of mine. He makes it "Hob
y deri dando" and "praises of sweet little Jane".
>"Cosher" Bailey actually seems to have been a railway builder --
>rather like the more famous Stephenson of "Stephenson's Rocket" --
>who legend has it had one of his engines stop stone dead in a tunnel
>while he was driving it, just one of a run of bad luck apparently.
That happens to Bailey too -- not in Brand's version, but it MacColl's
(I am quoting from memory):
Ah, the tale it is 'eart-rendin':
Cosher drove his little engine,
And he got stuck in a tunnel
And went up the bloomin' funnel.
Have you ever seen...
--- Joe Fineman j...@world.std.com
||: Assholes have their uses. :||
Gerry Milne
>
>Up at Mystic, a song with key-phrase "Jane, Jane, Come to the Glen??????"
>was sung several times & seemed well known. We were taken with it but
>never heard it before. (Or maybe there's some dim memory of it from 30+
>years ago.) Don't see it in any of my sea or folk references.
>
>
>I thank you.
>
>-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- ---
>I am Abby Sale - abby...@orlinter.com (That's in Orlando)
Jane, Jane, come to the glen
To sing the praise to Shanny Vach Voin.
The shanty is "Hob-y-derri-dando", originally in Welsh. Stan Hugill gave
both Welsh and English versions in Shanties from the Seven Seas, where
he says it was one of the two popular capstan shanties sung by Welsh
crews, the other being "Mochyn Du", or "The Black Pig".
(Dammit! How did Captain Pugwash get in here??? .. ;^) For non-Brits, CP
was a tv cartooon pirate whose ship was the Black Pig. The theme tune
was the Trumpet Hornpipe, now forever known in music sesions as
Pugwash.)
--
Gerry Milne
Gerry Milne
In article <3590e86...@cnews.newsguy.com>, Abby Sale
<abby...@orlinter.com> writes
>>
>>>Up at Mystic, a song with key-phrase "Jane, Jane, Come to the
>>
>I am Abby Sale - abby...@orlinter.com (That's in Orlando)
Following up my own posting (which I wrote yesterday but forgot to post
at the time.. oops! sorry, slaps wrist, <wg>...), as well as the above
and others, the tune to Mochyn Du is the same as Cosher Bailey as sung
by rugby fans and the folk world. The shanty that Abby heard at Mystic
goes to a totally different tune:-
I'll sing the bass if you'll sing the solo
Hob y derri dando
'Bout the clipper ship the Marco Polo
Can y gan y eto
See her sailing on the water
Jane sweet Jane
Wish I was in bed with the Captain's daughter
Jane, Jane, come to the glen
To sing the praise of Shanny Vach Voin
Hope that helps to make things a bit clearer. Apolgies to the Welsh for
the spelling.
--
Gerry Milne
Eric Berge
In Article<35910e22...@cnews.newsguy.com>, <abby...@orlinter.com>
writes:
> Thank you extremely for this. (I assume, since you've gone to all the
> trouble to type this out, you've sent it up to Digital Tradition where it
> at this time of the April 1998 edition ain't yet.)
Actually, it is, as "Cosher Bailey's Engine" (filename COSHERB).
Here's the one from Oscar Brand's book (Bawdy Songs and Backroom Ballads,
Dorchester Press, 1960; LOC#M60-1010):
Crusher Bailey
Crusher Bailey went to college
Hob y deri dando
For to get a little knowledge
Let us sing again boys.
When the proctor seen him coming,
Jane, sweet Jane,
Went right home to hide his woman
Jane, Jane, come to the glen, }
To sing praise of sweet little Jane.}x2
Crusher Bailey had a sister
Laughed like blazes when you kissed her
Couldn't knit or darn a stocking
What she could do sure was shocking.
Listen, I will sing a solo
'Bout his ship, the "Marco Polo"
See her puffing through the water
Wish I was abed with the captain's daughter
Crusher Bailey had a stoker
Thought himself a bloody joker
Just to watch the steam go higher
He'd make water on the fire.
I'll send a copy to the DT when I have some time to type up the tune.
Oscar Brand sings the Jane, Jane part in Welsh on the record.
Eric Berge
(remove _ for address)
Abby Sale
On Thu, 25 Jun 1998 17:08:36 +0100, "S Thomas" <s.th...@cymru.net> wrote:
>
>>>I'll send the Welsh lyrics, and I probably have some English ones
>somewhere...
I'm most looking forward to those.
>
>I think I'm going to be very sorry that I got involved in this!!!
>
"No good deed goes unpunished."
>Two versions: one North, one South Wales. More or less the same words, but
>different(-ish) tunes. The North Wales tune is probably the best known and
>most used currently, but *usually* with words written this century by a
>famous Welsh poet, Crwys, about Uncle Dafydd and his suit of homespun cloth
>courting Siân Fwyn (Gentle). The words largely quoted in this thread are
>the Crawshay/Cosher Baily words (often sung to quite a different tune here
>in South Wales) and very popular in the 70s with the rugby fraternity.
Good so far. This would be closer to the Mystic version.
With the help of what's been posted so far, I can make out what The Mystic
Seaport Chanteymen sing:
I’ll sing the bass and you sing the solo
Hob-y-derri-dando
All about the clipper ship, the Marco Polo
Can-y-gan-y-eto
See her rolling through the water
Jane, sweet Jane
I wish I was in bed with the old man’s daughter
Jane, Jane, come to the glen,
To sing praise to Siani Fach fain
Davy, Davy comes from Nevin
And he’s got a sweet little engine
And he thinks so much about it
Oh, that he cannot do without it
Davy, Davy's sister, Dinah
Was a-working on the bliner
But the manager did sack her
All because she chewed his best tobacca
Davy, Davy in sailor heaven
They caught a shark in the reach of Nevin
All he asked for was a pie-dish
All for to cook them bits of shark-fish
You sing the bass and I’ll sing the solo
All about the clipper ship the Marco Polo
See her rolling through the water
Oh, I wish I was in bed with the old man’s daughter
--
I used your spelling of "Siani Fach fain" but I'm not sure they pronounce
is as 'SHAN-ee Vach Vine.' Seems to be a 'b' or two in there.
Still need to know what (if anything) 'Hob-y-derri-dando' & 'bliner' may
mean. (Some kind of weaving machine?)
>
>very old Welsh tradition of *canu penillion* - singing verses. You use a
>popular tune, usually with a nonsense alternative lines, and sing a
>hotch-potch of verses to them as the mood moves the singer.
>
>Hob y Deri Dando was probably collected first by a man named William Jones
>around the end of the 18th C. He says that it was noted down from a very old
>man in the Llangadfan area
>
>*Can-y-gan-y-eto" which is a garbled version of the 3rd line of one Welsh
>version: Dyma ganu eto. (Duh-mah GAN-ee e-to) or (lit.) Here's the singing
>of it again. Also, the sea-shanty words, as it was never thus connected here
>in Wales.
The Mystic version is, of course, a chantey. But seems divorced from
Cosher Bailey. I guess two people in Wales had engines.
>anyone tells you that the song is an ancient call to worship by the Druid's,
>laugh and look superior.
EJ took it from Wm. Jones' report that Hob
>y deri dando referred to the Oak grove. Yeh, OK, Oaks = druids
OK. What does it mean?
>Thus endeth the lesson?
>
Sorry.
Kevin Sheils
Abby Sale wrote:
<MUCH SNIPPED>
> Still need to know what (if anything) 'Hob-y-derri-dando' & 'bliner' may
> mean. (Some kind of weaving machine?)
I'm guessing but 'bliner' could be the Bleanau Ffestiniog railway in the
Snowdonia region (spelling may be iffy here).
>
> The Mystic version is, of course, a chantey. But seems divorced from
> Cosher Bailey. I guess two people in Wales had engines.
>
Well the railway connection fits with 'bliner' as above, unless of
course it's a corruption of Baleana (sp?) the ship in other nautical
songs (just to throw in another angle ;-))
--
Kevin Sheils
http://www.mrscasey.co.uk/ For Sidmouth/Towersey Festivals etc
http://www.btinternet.com/~haleend For Waltham Forest Folk Events
Sian Thomas
Abby Sale wrote in message <
>>>>I'll send the Welsh lyrics, and I probably have some English ones
>>somewhere...
>
>I'm most looking forward to those.
Drat. The ones Brinley Richards published in The Songs of Wales (1873) are
so horribly naff, they're embarrassing. OK. These are the S.Wales ones,
but remember that the English is not a translation of the Welsh.
All the day I sigh and say, love
"Hob y deri dando".
All the night I dream or pray, love,
"Hob y deri dando".
Ah, since that first time we met,
I do naught but complain,
Tho' I fear thou dost forget,
I hope on in vain.
All night and day,
I say and pray
for thee, dear Jane.
(do you really want two verses of this? OK, now Welsh...)
Wyt ti'n hoffi dyri', Derwydd?
"Hob y deri dando,"
Unwaith oerais i o'th herwydd --
Dyna ganu eto:
Ym mhob ardal y mae byrdon,
Canig hen y co';
Pwy na allant ddweud penillion,
Hen gan co
Canig hen y co,
Hob y deri dan y to.
Actually, re-reading these, they aren't so bad ... They actually refer to
that *ymryson canu* I mentioned, and the second verse carries on the pattern
...
>>The North Wales tune is probably the best known and
>>most used currently,
Sorry, that was a slip ... I meant, South Wales
>>but *usually* with words written this century by a
>>famous Welsh poet, Crwys, ...
>Good so far. This would be closer to the Mystic version.
What? The Crwys one? Don't think there *is* an English translation ...
>Davy, Davy's sister, Dinah
>Was a-working on the bliner
Keith's got it... or at least is close. Given the reference to Nefyn, it
could well be Blaenau (pron. Bline-eye), which was and is a huge slate
quarrying town in Snowdonia. It would have shipped it's slate around the
world, and freighted it out from Blaenau by train to Porth Madog.
>I used your spelling of "Siani Fach fain" but I'm not sure they pronounce
>is as 'SHAN-ee Vach Vine.' Seems to be a 'b' or two in there.
Shouldn't be, unless Siani has had a sex change (b for boys, f for girls ...
but neither do you want a lecture in initial mutations in Welsh?)
>Still need to know what (if anything) 'Hob-y-derri-dando' ...may
>mean.
OK - the Edward Jones (1794) publication and subsequent Brinley Richards one
will tell you ...
<< *Hai down i'r deri danno,* - (come let us hasted to the oaken grove) is
the burden of an old song of the Druids. The old English song, *Hie down
down derry down* &c.,*is probably borrowed from the Druidical song.
*Hob y deri danno* literally means, *The swine (or pig) under the oaks* >>
But you WILL (won't you?) remember what I told you about Druids in the last
message???
It's basically a nonsense phrase these days, but was once a come-on ...
*Meet me under the oak, honey!* Come to think of it, the town oak was the
meeting-place in general - sort of like a village square where the
youngsters hang out.
>The Mystic version is, of course, a chantey. But seems divorced from
>Cosher Bailey. I guess two people in Wales had engines.
The first commercial use of Trevithick's (sp?) steam engine on rail down the
valley from Merthyr Tydfil to ... Cardiff docks, maybe? And I suppose you
know the song "Donkey Riding" (and verse, Were you ever in Cardiff Bay
...?); well, that was a donkey engine, so I guess we had a few hanging
about ...
Also, Phyllis is following all this at a distance (she's finishing the first
Eng.language history of Welsh folk music since 1935, commissioned by Univ.
of Wales Press so is keeping her nose otherwise to the grindstone) and we've
been further discussing the "singing with stops and trips". I suggested it
might refer to the requirement in Welsh folk dance for dancers to *cyfarch y
delyn*, lit. to greet the harp, but meaning that all the dancers bow/curtsey
to the harp/musicians before the dance begins. Phyl replies ...
>A very interesting small thought re: 'Hob y deri...'. The curtsey to the
harp
>is new to me and there may be something in it worth investigating further.
My
>idea with regard to the trip y telyniwr was this: in the Robert ap Huw ms
there
>is a page of instructions as to how to play the harp in his time. One of
these
>is called 'tagiad' and I wondered if there was any relation between that
and
>and the 'stop' and the fact that the term 'trip y telyniwr' comes from the
>treatises involved with the same period made me wonder if the reference is
to
>a type of playing the harp which went out of fashion by the 18th century. I
>have absolutely no evidence one way or another but it's interesting that
the
>term 'stops and trips' should be connected with the 'Hob y Deri...' tune.
Hope that's of some interest.
Sian Thomas
Abby Sale
>the tune to Mochyn Du is the same as Cosher Bailey as sung
>by rugby fans and the folk world. The shanty that Abby heard at Mystic
>goes to a totally different tune:-
>
>I'll sing the bass if you'll sing the solo
> Hob y derri dando
>
>Hope that helps to make things a bit clearer. Apolgies to the Welsh for
>the spelling.
Absolutely. That means that in the post you posted tomorrow, just before
this one, Hugill's "two Welsh chanties," "Mochyn Du" and "Hob..." are
really the same song. Obviously "Cosher Bailey" is intermixed textually
(and I think tunually, at least in the first line.) with "Hob..."
So the solution is much furthered with some Welsh words to "Mochyn Du" and
Dafyd's Engine.
Whew!
Abby Sale
>
>The shanty is "Hob-y-derri-dando", originally in Welsh. Stan Hugill gave
>both Welsh and English versions in Shanties from the Seven Seas, where
>he says it was one of the two popular capstan shanties sung by Welsh
>crews, the other being "Mochyn Du", or "The Black Pig".
>
The fog thickens before the inevitable clearing. I looked there first, of
course but couldn't (still can't) find it under any title that's come up
so far.
Joseph C Fineman
j...@world.std.com (Joseph C Fineman) (that's me) writes:
>Nigel & Nancy Sellars <nsel...@telepath.com> writes:
>>The words are also in the long out of print book which goes with the
>>Bawdy Songs and Backroom Ballads series. I'll try to find my copy,
>>but it's stashed away in a box at the moment.
>In case you fail, I can copy it for you out of mine. He makes it
>"Hob y deri dando" and "praises of sweet little Jane".
That service has already been performed elsewhere in this thread.
However, after posting the above I saw that I had neglected the
following note by Brand:
Considerable research reveals that there was a "Cosher Bailey" who
drove the first train along the Taff Vale Railway in Wales, in 1846.
The train got stuck in the tunnel, which was all the inspiration
balladeers needed for a new song. The "hob y deri dando" is derived
from an ancient Druidic incantation, so extreme caution is
suggested.
Uh huh.
The tunnel episode is missing from Brand's version.
--- Joe Fineman j...@world.std.com
||: The doctorate, which once meant you could start teaching, :||
||: now means you can stop learning. :||
Arian Hokin
Sian Thomas wrote:
> >I used your spelling of "Siani Fach fain" but I'm not sure they pronounce
> >is as 'SHAN-ee Vach Vine.' Seems to be a 'b' or two in there.
>
> Shouldn't be, unless Siani has had a sex change (b for boys, f for girls ...
> but neither do you want a lecture in initial mutations in Welsh?)
Awww - I think initial mutations are *really* interesting! No, I do - my
psychiatrist has heard me say so! But not a lot to do with music, I admit...
(Mad as I am, I mean it, Sian. May I e-mail you if I want some Welsh-learning
help, or is that too much of an imposition?)
Arian Hokin
Abby Sale
On Fri, 26 Jun 98 00:00:54 , you wrote:
>
>Actually, it is, as "Cosher Bailey's Engine" (filename COSHERB).
>
Now that, clearly, is a different tune. Maybe the Southern Wales version
of "Hob..?" That would mostly bring it all together, is true.
>Here's the one from Oscar Brand's book (Bawdy Songs and Backroom Ballads,
>Dorchester Press, 1960; LOC#M60-1010):
>
Good. Thank you.
>
>I'll send a copy to the DT when I have some time to type up the tune.
>Oscar Brand sings the Jane, Jane part in Welsh on the record.
>
Good again. And a very bad "brogue" it is. But for American audiences at
the time I guess you could combing Irish & Scottish accents & Welsh words
without much fear of contradiction.
Steve Ashton
Arian Hokin wrote:
>
> Sian Thomas wrote:
>
> > >I used your spelling of "Siani Fach fain" but I'm not sure they pronounce
> > >is as 'SHAN-ee Vach Vine.' Seems to be a 'b' or two in there.
> >
> > Shouldn't be, unless Siani has had a sex change (b for boys, f for girls ...
> > but neither do you want a lecture in initial mutations in Welsh?)
>
> Awww - I think initial mutations are *really* interesting! No, I do - my
> psychiatrist has heard me say so! But not a lot to do with music, I admit...
>
No, you don't - trust me, I'm a nurse.
Steve
Abby Sale
On Fri, 26 Jun 1998 15:04:19 +0100, "Sian Thomas" <si...@iws.cymru.net>
wrote:
I think that's most of the connections.
>but remember that the English is not a translation of the Welsh.
>
Is it at least the same idea?
>All the day I sigh and say, love
>"Hob y deri dando".
>All the night I dream or pray, love,
>"Hob y deri dando".
>
>>Davy, Davy's sister, Dinah
>>Was a-working on the bliner
>
>Keith's got it... or at least is close. Given the reference to Nefyn, it
>could well be Blaenau (pron. Bline-eye),
There's some internal corroboration but may only be coincidence. It's
probably hardish to find Welsh towns that rhyme with _anything_ so the
poet might have to use whatever he could.
from "Cosher Bailey's Engine":
Cosher Bailey's sister Lena
She was living up in Blaina
She could knit and darn our stockings
But her cooking it was shocking.
>But you WILL (won't you?) remember what I told you about Druids in the last
>message???
>
Yessir.
discussing the "singing with stops and trips". I suggested it
>might refer to ... the dancers bow/curtsey
>to the harp/musicians before the dance begins.
I like that.
Abby Sale
Sorry if I've gone on to much but it's such a wonderfully convoluted song
- been so many places. I'm in the habit of combining related songs as
varients of each other - using a master title that may describe all - but
one seems to be a real (Sam) Hintonian "Wandering Folksong.) Maybe not
approaching the "Unfortunate Rake" itself, but quite impressive. A
wanderful song!
Here's Oscar Brand singing about the train engineer, Cosher Bailey (once
Uncle Dafydd and his suit of homespun cloth - then Davy the sailor) & now
he's Crusher Bailey:
Listen, I will sing a solo
'Bout his ship, the "Marco Polo"
See her puffing through the water
Wish I was abed with the captain's daughter
The "steamship" here, of course, is the famous clipper "Marco Polo."
Sian Thomas
Abby Sale wrote in message
>>
>Is it at least the same idea?
OK ...I've found a version that should suit both of us ...
Ni bu ferch erioed gan laned
Hob y deri dando
Ni bu ferch erioed gan wyned,
Dyna ganu eto
Ni bu neb o ferched dynion
Siân fwyn, Siân
Nes na hon i dorri 'nghalon
Siân fwyn, tyrd i'r llwyn
Seiniwn glod i Siani fach fwyn:
Siân fwyn, tyrd i'r llwyn
Seiniwn glod i Siani fach fwyn.
Never was there maiden sweeter
Hob y deri dando
More alluring, livelier, neater
Hob y deri dando
Nor one to my fancy nearer
Jane, sweet Jane
There is no one I love dearer,
Jane, run down the lane
There in the grove we'll kiss again
Jane, run down the lane
There in the grove we'll kiss again.
I like the Welsh because it uses old traditional verses / rhymes. There are
another two verses in English and Welsh in this particular book ... Caneuon
Cenedlaethol Cymru - The National Songs of Wales, Boosey & Hawkes, which may
still be available?
>probably hardish to find Welsh towns that rhyme with _anything_ so the
>poet might have to use whatever he could.
OI, YOU! Watch it! Lot's of things rhyme with lots of places ... just not,
necessarily, in English. Stop being so Anglo-centric! There are some
exceedingly funny verses struck about, oh, say, Eglwyswrw or Ffostrasol or
Pontrhydfendigaid, I assure you!
Besides ... the Welsh rhyme all over the place, not just at the end of
lines. Ref: Dylan Thomas' stuff (although but a pale imitation of Welsh
*cynghanedd*)
>Yessir.
Yesma'am, please ...
>> discussing the "singing with stops and trips".
>I like that.
Yeh, so did Phyllis. Sounds like it might be a possible explanation.
Abby Sale
Thank you very much to all that helped - Anni Fentiman, Ruth Meakin, Andy
Alexis, Paul Schoenwetter, Eric Berge, Joe Fineman, Gerry Milne, Kevin
Sheils, Steve Ashton - and especially to Sian (Siân) Thomas for all the
Welsh material & who did a lot.
The primary versions & details of this fine chantey/love song/political
satire follow. Any misunderstandings or inaccuracies are certainly my
own.
Hob Y Derri Dando
(Traditional)
The Mystic Seaport Chanteymen sing:
I’ll sing the bass and you sing the solo
Hob-y-derri-dando
All about the clipper ship, the Marco Polo
Can-y-gan-y-eto
See her rolling through the water
Jane, sweet Jane
I wish I was in bed with the old man’s daughter
Jane, Jane, come to the glen,
To sing praise to Siani Fach fain
Davy, Davy comes from Nevin
And he’s got a sweet little engine
And he thinks so much about it
Oh, that he cannot do without it
Davy, Davy's sister, Dinah
Was a-working on the bliner
But the manager did sack her
All because she chewed his best tobacca
Davy, Davy in sailor heaven
They caught a shark in the reach of Nevin
All he asked for was a pie-dish
All for to cook them bits of shark-fish
You sing the bass and I’ll sing the solo
All about the clipper ship the Marco Polo
See her rolling through the water
Oh, I wish I was in bed with the old man’s daughter
Jane, Jane, come to the glen,
To sing praise to Siani Fach fain
----
William Pint and Felicia Dale sing:
I’ll sing the bass and you sing the solo
Hob-y-derri-dando
All about the clipper ship the Marco Polo
Can-y-gan-y-eto
See her rolling through the water
Jane sweet Jane
Wish I was in bed with the old man’s daughter
Jane, Jane, come to the glen
To sing praise to Sean Foch Foyn
Davy, Davy comes from Nevin
An’ he’s got a sweet little engine
An he thinks so much about it
That he cannot do without it
Crusher Bailey had a sister
Laughed like blazes when you kissed her
Couldn’t knit nor darn no stocking
But what she could do was shocking
Johnny Jones, he wants a missus
Someone to keep him warm with kisses
Take him round to Bailey’s sister
She’s so hot she’ll raise a blister.
From the CD Hearts of Gold: "...is one of the few shanties that we’ve run
across of Welsh origin. The chorus has been partly Anglicized. In true
folk tradition, we’ve added a verse of our own invention." From Pint &
Dale's web site at: http://members.aol.com/Pintndale/
[thanx Andy Alexis]
--------------
Cosher Bailey's Engine
1. Cosher Bailey had an engine
It was always wanting mending,
And according to the power,
She could do four miles an hour
Cho: Did you ever see, did you ever see
Did you ever see such a funny sight before?
2. On the night run up from Gower
She did twenty mile an hour
As she whistled through the station
Man, she frightened half the nation.
3. Cosher bought her second-hand
And he painted her so grand
When the driver went to oil her
Man, she nearly burst her boiler.
4. Cosher Bailey's sister Lena
She was living up in Blaina
She could knit and darn our stockings
But her cooking it was shocking.
5. Cosher Bailey's brother Rupert
He played stand-off-half for Newport,
When they played against Llanelly
Someone kicked him in the belly.
6. Cosher Bailey had a daughter
Who did things she didn't oughter
She was quite beyond the pale
But over that we'll draw a veil.
7. Cosher Bailey went to Exford*
For to pass matriculation
But he saw a pretty barmaid
And he never left the station.
8. Oh the sight it was heart-rending
Cosher drove his little engine
And he got stuck in the tunnel
And went up the bloomin' funnel.
9. Cosher Bailey's little engine
Couldn't even sound its hooter
Just to make the steam go higher
He made water on the fire.
10. Yes, Cosher Bailey he did die
And they put him in a coffin
But, alas, they heard a knocking
Cosher Bailey, only joking.
11. Well, the Devil wouldn't have him
But he gave him sticks and matches
For to set up on his own
On the top of Barford Hatches.
12. Cosher Bailey's brother Matthew
Had a job at cleaning statues
But when he was cleaning Venus
He slipped and broke his elbow.
13. Cosher Bailey's Uncle Reg
He did go behind an 'edge,
Uncle Reg is feeling better
But the 'edge is somewhat wetter.
14. Yes, I knew his brother Rupert
When he played scrum-half for Newport
Ah, but when he took up rugger
He looked such a silly billy.
15. Cosher Bailey's sister Hanna
Well, she played the grand pianna
She went hammer, hammer, hammer,
Till the neighbours said, "Goddamn her!"
16. In the choir on Sunday night
We sing better when we're tight
And our version of 'Cym Rhondda'
Makes the angels jive up yonder!
*Exford = Oxford (imitation of Oxford accent) JB
Verse 4 shows a connection to the chantey - "working on the bliner."
Verse 5 shows the rugby connection.
From Digital Tradition, Recorded by MacColl (Four Pence a Day)
On British Industrial Ballads, MacColl sings verses 1,2,3,4,7,8,10,11.
In Silber's Folksinger's Wordbook, one finds verses 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,10,11.
--------------------
Crusher Bailey
From Oscar Brand:
Crusher Bailey went to college
Hob y deri dando
For to get a little knowledge
Let us sing again boys.
When the proctor seen him coming,
Jane, sweet Jane,
He went right home to hide his woman
Jane, Jane, come to the glen,
To sing praise of Sean Fach Fwyn
Crusher Bailey had a sister
Laughed like blazes when you kissed her
Couldn't knit or darn a stocking
What she could do sure was shocking.
Listen, I will sing a solo
'Bout his ship, the "Marco Polo"
See her puffing through the water
Wish I was abed with the captain's daughter
Crusher Bailey had a stoker
He thought himself a bloody joker
Just to watch the steam go higher
He'd make water on the boiler.
From Oscar Brand's book (Bawdy Songs and Backroom Ballads; Dorchester
Press, 1960; LOC#M60-1010): -- * liner notes translate as "Sean Fach
Fwyn" as "sweet little Jane."
[From: Eric Berge]
------------------------------
Hob Y Derri Dando
(Traditional)
The Welsh
Ni bu ferch erioed gan laned
Hob y deri dando
Ni bu ferch erioed gan wyned,
Dyna ganu eto
Ni bu neb o ferched dynion
Siân fwyn, Siân
Nes na hon i dorri 'nghalon
Siân fwyn, tyrd i'r llwyn
Seiniwn glod i Siani fach fwyn:
Siân fwyn, tyrd i'r llwyn
Seiniwn glod i Siani fach fwyn.
And the English
Never was there maiden sweeter
Hob y deri dando
More alluring, livelier, neater
Hob y deri dando
Nor one to my fancy nearer
Jane, sweet Jane
There is no one I love dearer,
Jane, run down the lane
There in the grove we'll kiss again
Jane, run down the lane
There in the grove we'll kiss again.
The Welsh uses old traditional verses / rhymes. There are another two
verses in English and Welsh in this particular book ... Caneuon
Cenedlaethol Cymru - The National Songs of Wales, Boosey & Hawkes, which
may still be available.
Another from Sian Thomas:
The Welsh
Wyt ti'n hoffi dyri', Derwydd?
"Hob y deri dando,"
Unwaith oerais i o'th herwydd --
Dyna ganu eto:
Ym mhob ardal y mae byrdon,
Canig hen y co';
Pwy na allant ddweud penillion,
Hen gan co
Canig hen y co,
Hob y deri dan y to.
And the English
All the day I sigh and say, love
"Hob y deri dando".
All the night I dream or pray, love,
"Hob y deri dando".
Ah, since that first time we met,
I do naught but complain,
Tho' I fear thou dost forget,
I hope on in vain.
All night and day,
I say and pray
for thee, dear Jane.
Published by Brinley Richards in The Songs of Wales (1873). These are
the S.Wales ones, In this one, the English in this second version is not a
translation of the Welsh.
-----------------------
General notes:
Siani Fach fain (pronounced SHAN-ee Vach Vine, using the gutteral "ch" as
in German) and it means Slender Little Siani/Janey.
--
Sian Thomas continues: Two versions: one North, one South Wales. More or
less the same words, but different(-ish) tunes. The South Wales tune is
probably the best known and most used currently, but "usually" with words
written this century by a famous Welsh poet, Crwys, about Uncle Dafydd and
his suit of homespun cloth courting Siân Fwyn (Gentle). The Pint & Dale
words Crawshay/Cosher Baily words (often sung to quite a different tune
here in South Wales) and very popular in the 70s with the rugby
fraternity. This would be closer to the Mystic version.
It is an extension of the very old Welsh tradition of "canu penillion" -
singing verses. You use a popular tune, usually with a nonsense
alternative lines, and sing a hotch-potch of verses to them as the mood
moves the singer. Or in groups it becomes "ymryson canu" - contest
singing (but more like "bandying" verses). So, one singer sings his/her
verse then someone else has to take it up with something else that fits
(either traditional or improvised).
Hob y Deri Dando was probably collected first by a man named William Jones
around the end of the 18th C. He says that it was noted down from a very
old man in the Llangadfan area who, "used to sing with stops and trips".
I don't know what tune the Mystic Chanteymen used, but the meter sounds to
me like the North Wales one. "Stops and trips" refer to the harp
accompaniment which would have stood instead of the Hob y Deri Dando line.
When we sing it, we tend to (??) draw out the "dando" to another full bar,
and straight into the next line, but the harpers would, apparently rap
three times. ("hob y der-i dan-do "tap" "tap" "tap") Those are the stops.
The Words could be much older than 18th century and connected with an
ancient meter of poetry. The "singing with stops and trips" might refer to
... the dancers bow/curtsey to the harp/musicians before the dance begins.
"Can-y-gan-y-eto" which is a garbled version of the 3rd line of one Welsh
version: Dyma ganu eto. (Duh-mah GAN-ee e-to) or (lit.) Here's the
singing of it again. Also, the sea-shanty words, as it was never thus
connected here in Wales.
The Edward Jones (1794) publication and subsequent Brinley Richards one
will tell you ..."Hai down i'r deri danno," - (come let us hasted to the
oaken grove) is the burden of an old song of the Druids. The old English
song, "Hie down down derry down" &c.,"is probably borrowed from the
Druidical song."
But "Hob y deri danno" literally means, "The swine (or pig) under the
oaks." It's basically a nonsense phrase these days, but was once a
come-on ..."Meet me under the oak, honey!" The town oak was the
meeting-place in general - much like a village square where the youngsters
hang out.
The old story that the song is an ancient call to worship by the Druid's
was set rolling by the original publisher (Edward Jones) in 1794 when
London was a-wash with (re-)creating a romanticized Druidic movement. EJ
took it from Wm. Jones' report that Hob y deri dando referred to the Oak
grove. Yes, Oaks = druids ... but it was also a choice spot for young
lovers, which brings us tidily back to Jane, Jane, come to the Glen which
was, in Welsh, Siân, Siân, come into the bushes (nudge, nudge, wink, wink)
--
Gerry Milne noted: Stan Hugill gave both Welsh and English versions in
Shanties from the Seven Seas, where he says it was one of the two popular
capstan shanties sung by Welsh crews, the other being "Mochyn Du", or "The
Black Pig". The tune to Mochyn Du is the same as Cosher Bailey as sung
by rugby fans and the folk world. The shanty that Abby heard at Mystic
goes to a totally different tune:-
--
Kevin Sheils: As to meaning of 'bliner' -- I'm guessing but 'bliner' could
be the Bleanau Ffestiniog railway in the Snowdonia region (spelling may be
iffy here). Or possibly it's a corruption of Baleana (sp?) the ship in
other nautical songs.
Sian Thomas also suggests: Given the reference to Nefyn, it could well be
Blaenau (pron. Bline-eye), which was and is a huge slate quarrying town
in Snowdonia. It would have shipped it's slate around the world, and
freighted it out from Blaenau by train to Porth Madog.
--
The "happy?" file includes: "As a result of the Grouping (ie, of 123
seperate railway companies into just four) the Taff Vale Railway ended as
an entity on 1 Jan 1922. The original 1836 line ran 32 miles, including
some short branches, from Merthyr Tydfil to Cardiff Docks. Its coal
traffic became enormous, as shown by its having 271 locomotives working
over just 124 miles. The line was built by the ironmaster, Cosher Bailey.
Personally driving the engine on its first trip, he got stuck in a
tunnel."
--
There cannot, of course, be any factual connection between any Bailey and
a steam engine and the famous sailing ship, _Marco Polo_ "puffing through
the water."
Kevin Sheils
A huge summary of this song family which I've snipped, but would add:
>
> 5. Cosher Bailey's brother Rupert
> He played stand-off-half for Newport,
> When they played against Llanelly
> Someone kicked him in the belly.
>
We used to sing the last two lines of this verse as
In the game against Llandaff
He got kicked in the elbow.
And the chorus as
Did you ever saw, did you ever saw, did you ever saw
Such a funny thing before.
Which may sound grammatically clumsy to the English ear but at least it
rhymes :-)
This may already have been in previous postings but not Abby's excellent
summary but I hate to see a good thread die :-0
Abby Sale
wrote:
>
>We used to sing the last two lines of this verse as
>
>In the game against Llandaff
>He got kicked in the elbow.
>
>rhymes :-)
I admit to having little chance at pronouncing Welsh but I don't quite get
the rhyme... (Maybe you were referring to the refrain, though....)
>but I hate to see a good thread die :-0
Me too.
I was regretting that in spite of being sung by Oscar Brand & in spite of
being a rugby song, I've not yet come up with any really bawdy verses.
So I looked where I should have before, _Why Was He Born So Beautiful_,
and found:
"Did You Ever See"
1. Oh, I got an Aunty Sissy,
And she's only got one titty,
But it's very long and pointed
And the nipple's double jointed.
Cho: Did you ever see
Did you ever see,
Did you ever see,
Such a funny thing before.
2. I've got a cousin Daniel,
And he's got a cocker spaniel,
If you tickled 'im in the middle
He would lift his leg and piddle.
3. Oh, I've got a cousin Rupert,
He plays outside half for Newport.
They think so much about him
That they always play without him.
4. Oh, I've got a cousin Anna,
And she's got a grand piana,
And she ram aram arama,
Till the neighbors say "God Damn Her."
Would anyone know any other verses to this version?
Or any other bawdy version?
John (Yogi) Allen LX/M 832 4812
Hi Abby,
I know a few more - I don't know what's on record, but I don't remember
seeing any of these anywhere...
Cosher has an Auntie Julia,
She was taken most peculiar,
Something 'appened to 'er liver,
And she overflowed the river.
Cosher's little cousin Lily,
She played socker for Caerphilly,
Ah, but when she took up rugger,
Well she was a silly billy,
Oh the choir on Sunday night,
Sing much better when they're tight,
And their version of Cwm Rhondda,
Makes the angels blush up yonder.
You should see the bees at Gower,
As they flit from flower to flower.
You should see them at Llangollen,
As they gather in their pollen.
Cosher Bailey he did die,
In a coffin he did lie,
But alas they heard some knockin...
Cosher Bailey? - Only joking...
Hope you're keeping well...
On-On /Yogi (who will be visiting the USA on holiday in September,
starting with friends in Connecticut).
---
Email: etl...@etl.ericsson.se | John (Yogi) Allen
East Grinstead Hash House Harriers | On On in Sussex and Kent (UK)
Brighton GO Club | British GO Association (2D)
Brighton Morris Men | Melodeon, Guitar, Songs
Phone: (Home) 01444 244581 | (Work) 01444 234812
"If you want a double entendre, I will give you one..."
Joseph C Fineman
>Would anyone know any other verses to this version?
>Or any other bawdy version?
Here are a couple of variants on stanzas already posted, which I heard
at a rockclimbers' party in Kingston, NY, ca. 1969:
Cosher Bailey had a grandma
Who could play the grand pianna,
And she also played the fiddle,
Down the sides and up the middle.
Cosher had a brother Matthew
Who was always making statues,
But one day, while doing Venus,
He fell down and broke his elbow.
Also, a stanza is quoted in _Goodbye to All That_ by Robert Graves. I
do not remember it, but it is one of the student ones, and I believe
it has not come up in this thread.
--- Joe Fineman j...@world.std.com
||: An election tells how many of your supporters are alive, and :||
||: a war tells how many are willing to be dead. :||