[Fwd: Re Filk History]
Lee Gold
I'm sure I left out a lot of good stuff.
--Lee
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re Filk History
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 18:25:51 -0800
From: Lee Gold <lee....@ca.rr.com>
To: "tru...@yahoogroups.com" <tru...@yahoogroups.com>
Jim Caughran wrote: "A look at Wikipedia and its references blows away
what I had in mind. My reaction is that filk has probably become a
fandom of its own -- separate conventions and activities, and people who
are involved in it but not particularly interested in other aspects of
fandom. Am I right?"
I'd call it a fringe fandom. Yes, there are some filkers who go to
housefilks and filk conventions and contribute to filkzines and to
rec.music.filk and otherwise are part of filk fandom but who aren't
part of general SF fandom. But *most* of the filkers I know also
show up at SF conventions and otherwise participate in SF fandom.
Jim Caughran wrote:
"I wonder if you would outline the history of filk in sf fandom, and
very briefly note current activities, with references. I think that's
what Fancyclopedia should have for filk."
I attempted to outline the history of filk in SF fandom in my article.
http://www.fanac.org/Fan_Histories/filkhist.html
Feel free to datamine it or to straighten out its chronology to a
more standard one. I put everything I knew in it about what
is now often called "paleofilk."
After that comes what is now referred to as "old filk", the
era that started when technology gave us the lightweight
cassette recorder and filksingers started taping one another's
songs in singing circles -- and then recording songs (by
a single person, from convention concerts) to sell
semi-professionally. I'd date this as starting with the
publication of Westerfilk, a songbook that was
accompanied by cassette tapes from Off Centaur.
The new technology meant that songs to original music
became much more common.
Most filk recordings sold nowadays are on DVDs
with a lot higher quality (even the ones done in "home
studios", using computer software) than the cassettes
used to have.
Filk conventions started shortly after this, I think in
connection with Off Centaur who sponsored
Bayfilk, starting I think in 1982. Soon there were
other filk conventions across North America, and then
in the UK, and then in Germany.
I still like the printed word. I started publishing my
bimonthly filkzine in October, 1988, printing songs from
filkers worldwide.
The Pegasus Awards started in 1984.
http://www.ovff.org/pegasus.html
They're presented yearly at OVFF (the Ohio Valley
Filk Fest) with *everyone* allowed to vote on them, not just members
of OVFF.
Interfilk was organized in 1992 to send each filk convention a
singer from some other geographical area so people
could hear someone who wasn't a GoH but was still
a specially good singer. http://www.interfilk.org/
The Filk Hall of Fame was started in 1995 with honorees
inducted each year at Filk Ontario.
http://www.filkontario.ca/HallofFame.htm
I think what really marks the modern era is the Web, with
songs available on webpages, either for free or for sale,
filksongs played on "filkradio" webpages, DVDs
purchasable by webpage, etc. I'm starting to see people
show up at filk circles with songs on PDAs or getting
lyrics with web-capable phones that can access webpages
with them.
--Lee Gold
Dan Goodman
> Anyone want to nitpick this?
> I'm sure I left out a lot of good stuff.
>
> --Lee
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re Filk History
> Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 18:25:51 -0800
> From: Lee Gold <lee....@ca.rr.com>
> To: "tru...@yahoogroups.com" <tru...@yahoogroups.com>
>
> Jim Caughran wrote: "A look at Wikipedia and its references blows
> away what I had in mind. My reaction is that filk has probably become
> a fandom of its own -- separate conventions and activities, and
> people who are involved in it but not particularly interested in
> other aspects of fandom. Am I right?"
>
> I'd call it a fringe fandom. Yes, there are some filkers who go to
> housefilks and filk conventions and contribute to filkzines and to
> rec.music.filk and otherwise are part of filk fandom but who aren't
> part of general SF fandom. But most of the filkers I know also
> show up at SF conventions and otherwise participate in SF fandom.
If it's a fringe fandom, so is fanzine fandom -- most, but not nearly
all, of its members are also involved in general sf fandom.
Heck, there are probably members of con-running fandom who don't attend
cons -- let alone other parts of general sf fandom.
> Filk Fest) with everyone allowed to vote on them, not just members
> of OVFF.
>
> Interfilk was organized in 1992 to send each filk convention a
> singer from some other geographical area so people
> could hear someone who wasn't a GoH but was still
> a specially good singer. http://www.interfilk.org/
>
> The Filk Hall of Fame was started in 1995 with honorees
> inducted each year at Filk Ontario.
> http://www.filkontario.ca/HallofFame.htm
>
> I think what really marks the modern era is the Web, with
> songs available on webpages, either for free or for sale,
> filksongs played on "filkradio" webpages, DVDs
> purchasable by webpage, etc. I'm starting to see people
> show up at filk circles with songs on PDAs or getting
> lyrics with web-capable phones that can access webpages
> with them.
>
> --Lee Gold
--
Dan Goodman
"I have always depended on the kindness of stranglers."
Tennessee Williams, A Streetcar Named Expire
Journal http://dsgood.livejournal.com
Futures http://clerkfuturist.wordpress.com
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Links http://del.icio.us/dsgood
Richard Eney
Dan Goodman <dsg...@iphouse.com> wrote:
>Lee Gold wrote:
<snip>
>> I'd call it a fringe fandom. Yes, there are some filkers who go to
>> housefilks and filk conventions and contribute to filkzines and to
>> rec.music.filk and otherwise are part of filk fandom but who aren't
>> part of general SF fandom. But most of the filkers I know also
>> show up at SF conventions and otherwise participate in SF fandom.
>
>If it's a fringe fandom, so is fanzine fandom -- most, but not nearly
>all, of its members are also involved in general sf fandom.
>
>Heck, there are probably members of con-running fandom who don't attend
>cons -- let alone other parts of general sf fandom.
From what I hear, people who are running cons rarely get to attend
the con - they're too busy working. Even when they attend someone
else's con, they often end up volunteering and working more than
they attend.
=Tamar
Gary McGath
wrote:
>
> Filk conventions started shortly after this, I think in
> connection with Off Centaur who sponsored
> Bayfilk, starting I think in 1982. Soon there were
> other filk conventions across North America, and then
> in the UK, and then in Germany.
Bill Roper had mentioned that the 30th anniversary of a con called
simply "FilkCon" is coming up in 2009, so that would place it in 1979. I
believe it was in the midwest, perhaps the Chicago area. Bill would have
more details.
--
Gary McGath
http://www.mcgath.com http://www.mcgath.com/blog
Rob Wynne
> From what I hear, people who are running cons rarely get to attend
> the con - they're too busy working. Even when they attend someone
> else's con, they often end up volunteering and working more than
> they attend.
>
Someone once asked me, "So, how is Gafilk as a convention." and I smiled
wryly and said "I don't know, I've never been."
(But I hear it's GREAT. You should all come. *blinks innocently*)
--
Rob Wynne / The Autographed Cat / d...@america.net
http://www.autographedcat.com/ / http://autographedcat.livejournal.com/
Gafilk 2009: Jan 9-11, 2009 - Atlanta, GA - http://www.gafilk.org/
Aphelion - Original SF&F since 1997 - http://www.aphelion-webzine.com/
Joseph J. Kesselman
> If it's a fringe fandom, so is fanzine fandom
Hmmm. My understanding is that some of the fanzines predate face-to-face
conventions, which may put it in a different category (rootstock rather
than branches).
For what it's worth, I don't consider "fringe fandom" a term of
opprobium; it's the best phrase I've got to describe all of the
slightly-specialized subcommunities, and thus I'd agree that -- in that
sense -- filk is an instance thereof. If someone has a better phrase,
I'd be glad to replace this one.
Lee Gold
>
> >
> > Filk conventions started shortly after this, I think in
> > connection with Off Centaur who sponsored
> > Bayfilk, starting I think in 1982. Soon there were
> > other filk conventions across North America, and then
> > in the UK, and then in Germany.
>
> Bill Roper had mentioned that the 30th anniversary of a con called
> simply "FilkCon" is coming up in 2009, so that would place it in 1979. I
> believe it was in the midwest, perhaps the Chicago area. Bill would have
> more details.
Oh, that's why there was a FilkCon West (held at the LASFS clubhouse,
with a cassette recording), I think in 1982.
--Lee
Lee Gold
>
> Dan Goodman wrote:
> > If it's a fringe fandom, so is fanzine fandom
>
> Hmmm. My understanding is that some of the fanzines predate face-to-face
> conventions, which may put it in a different category (rootstock rather
> than branches).
Ted Johnstone's "Travelling Trufen" (written in the late 60s, I think)
presented three types of fandom:
fanzine fandom
club fandom
conention fandom
Nowadays I'd add web/net fandom (as in newsgroups and mailing lists
and blogs and LJ and so on).
>
> For what it's worth, I don't consider "fringe fandom" a term of
> opprobium; it's the best phrase I've got to describe all of the
> slightly-specialized subcommunities, and thus I'd agree that -- in that
> sense -- filk is an instance thereof. If someone has a better phrase,
> I'd be glad to replace this one.
Yes, I didn't use "fringe fandom" as a term of opprobrium.
I don't think that filk fandom is separate enough from general
SF fandom to justify calling it an offshoot. The SCA by now
probably is, though there's still a significant amount of oerlap.
--Lee
Dan Goodman
I count people who work on the con _at the site_ as attending.
Dan Goodman
> Dan Goodman wrote:
> > If it's a fringe fandom, so is fanzine fandom
>
> Hmmm. My understanding is that some of the fanzines predate
> face-to-face conventions, which may put it in a different category
> (rootstock rather than branches).
The first convention I know of was the 1939 Worldcon. Very few
fanzines predate that.
That aside: Fandom began (according to various accounts) in prozine
letter columns. People who show up in those letter columns -- even the
regulars -- are no longer automatically considered fans.
> For what it's worth, I don't consider "fringe fandom" a term of
> opprobium; it's the best phrase I've got to describe all of the
> slightly-specialized subcommunities, and thus I'd agree that -- in
> that sense -- filk is an instance thereof. If someone has a better
> phrase, I'd be glad to replace this one.
--
Joseph J. Kesselman
> That aside: Fandom began (according to various accounts) in prozine
> letter columns. People who show up in those letter columns -- even the
> regulars -- are no longer automatically considered fans.
Depends on who's doing the considering. Cue my standard "reality is
fractal" rant again... My personal opinion is that anyone who considers
_themself_ a fan is a fan whether they participated in organized fanac
or not, and I'd argue that regular writing to editors is a fan activity
in any case. But then, I'm more in the FIJAGDH camp than FIAWOL; for
years I insisted that despite my involvement I *wasn't* a fan. (I
finally gave up that battle when I realized I was SMOFfing.)
Bill Roper
My recollection is that FilkCon I was held at the Arlington Park Hilton in
Arlington Heights IL in 1979. Curt Clemmer did the majority of the setup
on the ground, being a Chicago local; Margaret Middleton and the Passovoys
were also involved in the organization of the con.
The *second* filk convention was FilkCon II, held in Michigan -- I *think*
in the Ann Arbor area -- the following year.
There was a *brief* spate of numbering filk conventions (including things
like 3a), which collapsed shortly thereafter. If I can find my back
issues of Kantele, they may shed some additional light on this.
--
Bill Roper, ro...@filker.com
Lee Gold
The key here isn't who's a "fan" but who's "a member of
organized fandom" or participates in "organized fanac"
or similar concepts.
No, I'm not going to try to define it. At least not here.
Barry and I have been working on the LASFS website, and
if his appointment as interim webmaster is renewed, I may
add an FAQ, one of which will be "Why do you call it
organized fandom?"
--Lee
Lee Gold
Many thanks. I've forwarded this to the people trying to put together
a Fancyclopedia III with an entry on "Filk."
--Lee
Rob Wynne
> The key here isn't who's a "fan" but who's "a member of
> organized fandom" or participates in "organized fanac"
> or similar concepts.
>
> No, I'm not going to try to define it. At least not here.
> Barry and I have been working on the LASFS website, and
> if his appointment as interim webmaster is renewed, I may
> add an FAQ, one of which will be "Why do you call it
> organized fandom?"
>
Anyone who's ever observed the planning and operation of a convention may
well ask themselves the same question.
Dan Goodman
> Lee Gold <lee....@ca.rr.com> wrote:
> > The key here isn't who's a "fan" but who's "a member of
> > organized fandom" or participates in "organized fanac"
> > or similar concepts.
> >
> > No, I'm not going to try to define it. At least not here.
> > Barry and I have been working on the LASFS website, and
> > if his appointment as interim webmaster is renewed, I may
> > add an FAQ, one of which will be "Why do you call it
> > organized fandom?"
> >
>
> Anyone who's ever observed the planning and operation of a convention
> may well ask themselves the same question.
Most cons are better-run than most political campaigns.
Joseph J. Kesselman
Law and sausage. Don't watch either being made if you have a weak stomach.
Lee Gold
>
> In article <4818BC01...@ca.rr.com>, Lee Gold <lee....@ca.rr.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Bill Roper wrote:
> > > My recollection is that FilkCon I was held at the Arlington Park Hilton in
> > > Arlington Heights IL in 1979. Curt Clemmer did the majority of the setup
> > > on the ground, being a Chicago local; Margaret Middleton and the Passovoys
> > > were also involved in the organization of the con.
> > >
> > > The *second* filk convention was FilkCon II, held in Michigan -- I *think*
> > > in the Ann Arbor area -- the following year.
> > >
> > > There was a *brief* spate of numbering filk conventions (including things
> > > like 3a), which collapsed shortly thereafter. If I can find my back
> > > issues of Kantele, they may shed some additional light on this.
> > > --
> > > Bill Roper, ro...@filker.com
> >
> > Many thanks. I've forwarded this to the people trying to put together
> > a Fancyclopedia III with an entry on "Filk."
>
> That's a piece of filk history that seems almost forgotten.
Does anyone want to provide leadership on this, or should we ask
someone to start a filkcon article on Wikipedia?
We could seed it with Bill Roper's email if he doesn't object.
We could also ask the directors of Interfilk to list all the
filk conventions they remember.
I think that for awhile ConChord alternated with Bayfilk and then
with Conosnance, but we weren't going to filkcons in those days.
--Lee
Sean Cleary
Are you all talking about cons with filk or filk only cons?
In the cons with filk, early Boskones, and OKon were very good places
to go.
OKon had Robert Asperin (spelling?), and Margaret Middleton and her
friend who married Jorden, and several others I forget.
Boskone started several songbooks before the hymnal, maybe a filk song
book list could be made.
There are so many things to add. And so little time. The east/west
style of that Kippling, what the middle of the country style was
during certain eras, much else.
I am glad that some of this *is* being recorded, and that all is good.
Sean
Richard Eney
>>> A definitive list of early filk cons would be a wonderful thing to have.
>>> That's a piece of filk history that seems almost forgotten.
>>
>> Does anyone want to provide leadership on this, or should we ask
>> someone to start a filkcon article on Wikipedia?
>> We could seed it with Bill Roper's email if he doesn't object.
>> We could also ask the directors of Interfilk to list all the
>> filk conventions they remember.
>>
>> I think that for awhile ConChord alternated with Bayfilk and then
>
>Are you all talking about cons with filk or filk only cons?
>In the cons with filk, early Boskones, and OKon were very good places
>to go.
>OKon had Robert Asperin (spelling?),
Asprin. He also showed up at Boskone and other East coast cons
that had filking.
>and Margaret Middleton and her
>friend who married Jorden, and several others I forget.
>Boskone started several songbooks before the hymnal,
>maybe a filk song book list could be made.
There was also an early filksong book from, I think, Disclave
at that time (mid to late 1970s).
>There are so many things to add. And so little time. The east/west
>style of that Kippling, what the middle of the country style was
>during certain eras, much else.
I vaguely recall that at first, Boskone filk was only on Friday night
and if you got there Saturday, you'd missed it. But I could be wrong.
I definitely remember filking being done quietly in a corner of the
con suite in or about 1972.
=Tamar Lindsay
Lee Gold
>
> Are you all talking about cons with filk or filk only cons?
Filk only cons.
--Lee
Gary McGath
wrote:
> Gary McGath wrote:
> > A definitive list of early filk cons would be a wonderful thing to have.
> > That's a piece of filk history that seems almost forgotten.
>
> Does anyone want to provide leadership on this, or should we ask
> someone to start a filkcon article on Wikipedia?
> We could seed it with Bill Roper's email if he doesn't object.
> We could also ask the directors of Interfilk to list all the
> filk conventions they remember.
>
> I think that for awhile ConChord alternated with Bayfilk and then
> with Conosnance, but we weren't going to filkcons in those days.
Oops, did I volunteer again? :)
I can put something together on the MASSFILC site, starting with the
information from the recent posts here.
Lee Gold
Many thanks, Gary.
--Lee
cracksa...@gmail.com
> Lee Gold <lee.g...@ca.rr.com> wrote:
> > The key here isn't who's a "fan" but who's "a member of
> > organized fandom" or participates in "organized fanac"
> > or similar concepts.
>
> > No, I'm not going to try to define it. At least not here.
> > Barry and I have been working on the LASFS website, and
> > if his appointment as interim webmaster is renewed, I may
> > add an FAQ, one of which will be "Why do you call it
> > organized fandom?"
>
> Anyone who's ever observed the planning and operation of a convention may
> well ask themselves the same question.
Last stanza of "Con From Argo" (http://filk.cracksandshards.com/
ConArgo.html):
This song's called "Con from Argo", and you may well ask how come:
I stole the tune and format, but that isn't where we're from.
Remember all the chaos that those spacers caused on shore?
Just look around our ConComm; you won't wonder any more.
-- Mark A. Mandel, The Filker With No Nickname
http://filk.cracksandshards.com
msm...@gmail.com
> In article <4817DC67.62A92...@ca.rr.com>, Lee Gold <lee.g...@ca.rr.com>
BayFilk I was actually the third exclusively-filk convention.
FilkCon I was held in the Chicago area (Arlington Heights, as I
recall) in 1979, with FilkCon 2 in Toledo the following summer.
BayFilk I was in the spring of 1981.
I'll have to print out the original article to make notes in the
margins and get back to the author.
Margaret Middleton
msm...@gmail.com
> On Wed, 30 Apr 2008, Lee Gold wrote:
> > Gary McGath wrote:
>
Toledo, actually. Marty Burke was the GoH, the first guest at a Filk
Con.
FilkCon III was in Los Angeles (I mis-spoke in my other post).
BayFilk I was then FilkCon IV (West) with another one in Kansas City
that same spring.
Margaret Middleton
Lee Gold
Could you write a brief article on this? I can forward it to the
folks who are trying to do an article on this for Fancyclopedia III
-- and also have Barry put it up on Wikipedia.
--Lee
Barney Evans
I remember two early filk conventions held at the LASFS Buildings. One
was Filkcon West the other was Maxi-Filk. (Not sure on the spelling of
that.) I would have to dig out old Philk-Fe-Non-E-Noms for the dates.
Barney
--
Jesus is Lord ||| Love Kate ||| Science Fiction |||
Windbourne Sound ||| LCIAWOL ||| Remove the "ick" for replies
||| San Diego Filk is http://www.sdfilk.org
sffilk
> Someone once asked me, "So, how is Gafilk as a convention." and I smiled
> wryly and said "I don't know, I've never been."
>
> (But I hear it's GREAT. You should all come. *blinks innocently*)
>
Shameless plugging again? (hehe)
I know what you mean, Rob.