Filk: "SUV Driver"
Joel Polowin
SUV, who tried to tell me that, as a cyclist, I wasn't supposed to
*ride* across a road, only walk my bike across.
SUV Driver (to: "Paperback Writer", Lennon/McCartney)
SUV Driver (SUV driver)
Dear Sir or Madam, I am on my bike --
Exercise and fresh air, which I really like.
I am in clear view if you'd only look,
Right in front of you, but it's hopeless, you're an SUV driver,
SUV driver.
I'd be willing enough to share the road,
But you don't understand the traffic code.
You pay no attention to what's around,
And you're on the phone and distracted, you're an SUV driver,
SUV driver.
SUV Driver (SUV driver)
I was almost killed and you didn't see
When you made a sharp turn right in front of me.
If you ran me down would you even know
'Til the police found the mess on the grille of the SUV driver,
SUV driver.
I might mention the fuel you waste
In your two-block drive with such awful haste.
But my main concern is the threat you pose
'Cause you're driving like Mister Magoo, you're an SUV driver,
SUV driver.
SUV Driver (SUV driver)
SUV Driver - SUV driver
SUV Driver - SUV driver
Kip Williams
> I had a non-literal run-in this afternoon with the driver of an
> SUV, who tried to tell me that, as a cyclist, I wasn't supposed to
> *ride* across a road, only walk my bike across.
>
> SUV Driver (to: "Paperback Writer", Lennon/McCartney)
>
> SUV Driver (SUV driver)
> Dear Sir or Madam, I am on my bike --
> Exercise and fresh air, which I really like.
I like this. The 'Magoo' line doesn't seem to scan perfectly, but I
expect it works when you sing it. On paper, perhaps, "you drive like' is
an easier fit. Small quibble!
Kip W
Sandy Tyra
I find it rather annoying - to put it mildly - that you have branded ALL
SUV drivers as irresponsible, reprehensible, etc. Not all are, you know.
Sandy
Joel Polowin
> I find it rather annoying - to put it mildly - that you have branded ALL
> SUV drivers as irresponsible, reprehensible, etc. Not all are, you know.
I know that not all are. Most aren't. But by far the majority of the
near-collisions and other traffic incidents that I've had in recent
years have been with SUV drivers, and entirely their fault. As a
cyclist I have to be wary of all vehicles, for my own sake, but SUVs
get particular attention because they pose a disproportionate risk.
Diana Skouris
<jpol...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>I had a non-literal run-in this afternoon with the driver of an
>SUV, who tried to tell me that, as a cyclist, I wasn't supposed to
>*ride* across a road, only walk my bike across.
Here in this part of the US of A the bicycle rider
has just as much of a right to be on the road as
that car/truck/SUV.
Joel Polowin
wrote:
Likewise in Ontario, and everywhere else that I know about. I
told the idiot to read a Driver's Handbook and that I had as much
right to be on the road as she or any other vehicle did, but she
was insistent (until the light changed and I went on my way). I'm
concerned that if she truly believes that cyclists aren't going to
be riding through intersections, she's likely to hit someone who
defies her expectations.
D.J.
<jpol...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Likewise in Ontario, and everywhere else that I know about. I
>told the idiot to read a Driver's Handbook and that I had as much
>right to be on the road as she or any other vehicle did, but she
>was insistent (until the light changed and I went on my way). I'm
>concerned that if she truly believes that cyclists aren't going to
>be riding through intersections, she's likely to hit someone who
>defies her expectations.
I encountered the same thing when I had a street motorcycle. I was
told by a number of people I had no right to be on the road. Some
thought my street legal motorcycle was a dirt bike. I guess the turn
signals, brake light, and headlight didn't clue them in. It was an
850cc MotoGuzzi.
A funny instance was when I stopped at a red light and heard a voice
telling me I didn't belong on the road. I looked around, and didn't
see anyone.
He yelled 'Down here you idiot !"
I looked down. He was driving some small little sport car. I said
something about he shouldn't drive things o nthe street powered by
rubber bands. He sped off, and got a ticket. By a traffic cop driving
a motorcycle.
JimP.
--
Brushing aside the thorns so I can see the stars.
http://www.linuxgazette.net/ Linux Gazette
http://www.drivein-jim.net/ Drive-In movie theaters
http://poetry.drivein-jim.net/ Aug 26, 2009
Kip Williams
Legally, yes. I believe that's been the case in Colorado, Georgia,
Texas, Virginia, Massachusetts, and New York. Not sure about places I
haven't lived.
I get a sense, though, that Might Makes Right in the minds of some out
there.
Kip W
Kip Williams
> On Tue, 13 Oct 2009 13:44:17 -0700 (PDT), Joel Polowin
> <jpol...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Likewise in Ontario, and everywhere else that I know about. I
>> told the idiot to read a Driver's Handbook and that I had as much
>> right to be on the road as she or any other vehicle did, but she
>> was insistent (until the light changed and I went on my way). I'm
>> concerned that if she truly believes that cyclists aren't going to
>> be riding through intersections, she's likely to hit someone who
>> defies her expectations.
>
> I encountered the same thing when I had a street motorcycle. I was
> told by a number of people I had no right to be on the road. Some
> thought my street legal motorcycle was a dirt bike. I guess the turn
> signals, brake light, and headlight didn't clue them in. It was an
> 850cc MotoGuzzi.
>
> A funny instance was when I stopped at a red light and heard a voice
> telling me I didn't belong on the road. I looked around, and didn't
> see anyone.
>
> He yelled 'Down here you idiot !"
>
> I looked down. He was driving some small little sport car. I said
> something about he shouldn't drive things o nthe street powered by
> rubber bands. He sped off, and got a ticket. By a traffic cop driving
> a motorcycle.
How very satisfying! I always wish I could see some folks get what's
coming to them.
Kip W
Harold Groot
<jpol...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>On Oct 13, 11:09=A0am, Sandy Tyra <sa...@planet-tyra.com> wrote:
>> I find it rather annoying - to put it mildly - that you have branded ALL
>> SUV drivers as irresponsible, reprehensible, etc. =A0Not all are, you kno=
>w.
>
>I know that not all are. Most aren't. But by far the majority of the
>near-collisions and other traffic incidents that I've had in recent
>years have been with SUV drivers, and entirely their fault. As a
>cyclist I have to be wary of all vehicles, for my own sake, but SUVs
>get particular attention because they pose a disproportionate risk.
Back when I had an SUV (and knew several other people who also had
them) we all had personal stories we could relate about drivers who
had run into us while we were stopped. None of these cases involved
another SUV plowing into us. Just careless drivers who managed not to
see that traffic had stopped (for a traffic light, in a traffic jam,
or some similar situation).
We tend to focus on things that have already grabbed our attention.
If we have decided for whatever reason that some type of driver is
dangerous, we'll tend to really notice those instances which support
that hypothesis and pay less attention to the situations that don't
support it. But I think an impartial observer would see that there
are dangerous drivers of all types and sizes of cars (as well as
trucks, motorcycles and bicycles).
Barney Evans
California Also. One problem with bicyclist in San Diego is many cyclist
often run stop signs and some times even red lights. I am all for bike
riding, but I wish riders would obey the traffic laws.
Joe Kesselman
> California Also. One problem with bicyclist in San Diego is many cyclist
> often run stop signs and some times even red lights. I am all for bike
> riding, but I wish riders would obey the traffic laws.
Some of us do. The problem of not knowing and respecting the rules of
the road does have offenders on both sides... but "whether the stone
hits the pitcher, or the pitcher hits the stone, it's going to be bad
for the pitcher."
Kip Williams
> California Also. One problem with bicyclist in San Diego is many cyclist
> often run stop signs and some times even red lights. I am all for bike
> riding, but I wish riders would obey the traffic laws.
True, that. I cringe when I see cyclists weasel through lights and such.
Then again, I wish that drivers didn't see stop signs in store parking
lots (and the word "stop" painted on the ground at the same place) as an
option to be disregarded at will. It's gotten to where, when I see
people honor the signs, I want to go thank them.
Kip W
Barry Gold
>>> I find it rather annoying - to put it mildly - that you have branded ALL
>>> SUV drivers as irresponsible, reprehensible, etc.
On Tue, 13 Oct 2009 08:46:49 -0700 (PDT), Joel Polowin
><jpol...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>I know that not all are. Most aren't. But by far the majority of the
>>near-collisions and other traffic incidents that I've had in recent
>>years have been with SUV drivers, and entirely their fault. As a
>>cyclist I have to be wary of all vehicles, for my own sake, but SUVs
>>get particular attention because they pose a disproportionate risk.
Harold Groot <que...@infionline.net> wrote:
>Back when I had an SUV (and knew several other people who also had
>them) we all had personal stories we could relate about drivers who
>had run into us while we were stopped. None of these cases involved
>another SUV plowing into us. Just careless drivers who managed not to
>see that traffic had stopped (for a traffic light, in a traffic jam,
>or some similar situation).
>
>We tend to focus on things that have already grabbed our attention.
>If we have decided for whatever reason that some type of driver is
>dangerous, we'll tend to really notice those instances which support
>that hypothesis and pay less attention to the situations that don't
>support it. But I think an impartial observer would see that there
>are dangerous drivers of all types and sizes of cars (as well as
>trucks, motorcycles and bicycles).
Amen. Around where I live, some bicyclists seem to think that stop
signs don't apply to them. Some even think that _red lights_ don't
apply to them. I sometimes wonder if these people are trying to
commit suicide.
Then there's the ones who ride on the sidewalk(*). I find myself wanting
to stop and explain to them why that's a bad idea (and not only
because it's hard on the pedestrians).
Actually, there _is_ one stretch of sidewalk that I would ride a bike
on. It's on a steep hill, at least 7%, so that you're going to be
going really slow. And the property behind it is an airport, so there
are no driveways or other cross traffic to cause problems.
(*) "Pavement" in britspeak, IIUC.
--
Barry Gold, webmaster:
Conchord: http://www.conchord.org
Los Angeles Science Fantasy Society, Inc.: http://www.lasfsinc.org
John Davis
> Amen. Around where I live, some bicyclists seem to think that stop
> signs don't apply to them. Some even think that _red lights_ don't
> apply to them. I sometimes wonder if these people are trying to
> commit suicide.
That is very common Barry.. I see it too,, I have had other bicyclists
assault me because I stopped for a red light blocking their path.
But the fact is that under the law, a Bicycle, is a Vehicle, and thus
MUST obey all vehicle laws (At least in Michigan)
That means you yield or stop as the signs/lights say
You don't speed (Yes it's possible to break the speed limit on a pedal
bike, at least down hill in a residential area)
You ride on the RIGHT side of the road, not against traffic.
And, in some areas, you wear the proper safety gear (Helmets and such)
as required by law.. I've gone off my bike enough that I don't worry
too much about helmets (I've yet to hit my head when I go off the bike,,
always go sideways) but.. I do understand the need.
(I remember that commercial (PSA) where the ... brat.... (Politest word
I can use) is taunting "Helmet boy" till they ride past the pick up
truck with the 2x4's sticking out the back.. Then the brat stops
taunting...... (He was on the curb side of "helmet boy" so,,
Well, recall the snickers commercial with "SHED".. Same concept.
John Davis
> I get a sense, though, that Might Makes Right in the minds of some out
> there.
>
>
> Kip W
The problem Kip.. is that in many cases the Bicyclists seem to feel they
have super rights,, As noted, they don't have to obey stop signs or red
lights. they can ride on the wrong side (in fact I was taught to ride on
the wrong side by my school.. an otherwise great school but they sure
got that one wrong) and otherwise immune from traffic laws.
Then, once I was in college,, I took the time to actually look up the laws
Statewide, here in Michigan, for the most part, a bicycle is just
another vehicle.. It may not use "limited access" highways, but on other
roads it's a vehicle, same rights, Same RESPONSIBILITIES, as a
motorcycle, car or truck (Save that the state does not require helmets
at this time)
In some cases (Battle Creek for example) a bicyclist MAY ride on the
sidewalk provided he has a bell or horn to alert pedestrians and
maintains a lower speed limit (B.C.'s is 4 MPH on sidewalks)
And a bicyclist may make what would otherwise be an illegal left turn by
WALKING the bike.. (Same for a small enough to walk motorcycle I might add)
and MAY travel the wrong way on a one way at 4mph on the sidewalk (In
Battle Creek)
But otherwise, tis just another vehicle
4mph is average walking speed by the way
John Davis
One of the problems with Stupid User Vehicles (SUV's) is they have
fairly large blind spots when compared to a car.
This kind of goes back to my theory of why so many ford explorers rolled
over and died some years ago but...
In many cases a young, upwardly mobile (yuppie) couple gets married,,
And soon baby will make 3.. So it's time to get a "Family Wagon" Well,
for assorted reasons they get an SUV cause. that's the Yuppie Station Wagon.
Now,there are a few significant differences between a true "Town and
Country" station wagon and an SUV, The biggest is that the SUV is a
truck.. My mini-van is a car, but a SUV is a truck.
Now Mr. and Mrs. Yuppie have never driven a truck before.. And frankly
don't know how.. Trucks have nice big blind spots so you need additional
mirrors and you need to USE them.. but they only know cars, and likely
sports cars at that.
So, you have a recipe for disaster here.
(Note, for some folks.. an SUV is a Smart User Vehicle.. But these
folks may well have graduated to the SUV from a pick up or other truck)
John Davis
> I find it rather annoying - to put it mildly - that you have branded ALL
> SUV drivers as irresponsible, reprehensible, etc. Not all are, you know.
Sandy see my previous post on the topic (By the way I liked the song,
Looks like an easy sing)
Most of the SUV's are sold to folks who would be better off with a good
old fashion station wagon.
Now, for some, the SUV is a Smart User Vehicle.. because it fills a
specific need and they know how to drive a truck.
But in the city... Where is where the majority of SUV's are parked..
There is almost never a need for an SUV.. A station wagon would be a
better choice.
SO, I'd say he is at least 80% right.
Diana Skouris
<jpol...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Here in this part of the US of A the bicycle rider
>> has just as much of a right to be on the road as
>> that car/truck/SUV. �
>
>Likewise in Ontario, and everywhere else that I know about.
I would point out if you go to Cambridge Massachusetts
many of the roads have a "bike lane" for bikes only.
Oh and encounters between cars and bikes occurred long
before SUVs. As a frequent bike rider I know friends who
have been hit by cars, have been hit by car doors being opened,
Fortunetly i've never been hit by a car.
LettermanCo...@cbs.com
<k...@rochester.rr.com> wrote:
>Then again, I wish that drivers didn't see stop signs in store parking
>lots (and the word "stop" painted on the ground at the same place) as an
>option to be disregarded at will.
Is signage like that really enforceable though? After all it's
not placed there by the municipality, it's placed there by
the store/mall owner and I would question whether police
have the ability to ticket someone who violates a sign
placed there by a store.
After all that stop sign is on private property, the sign
is not on the public way.
Also when they put a sign up at the corner of xxx and yyyy street
it's placed there by town goverment. When a sign goes up at
the entrance/exit from the store it's placed there by the store
owner/mall owner.
Joel Polowin
wrote:
> I would point out if you go to Cambridge Massachusetts
> many of the roads have a "bike lane" for bikes only.
Here in Ottawa, too -- on the whole, it's a bike-friendly city with a
reasonable number of dedicated bike paths, bike lanes on busy streets,
and some quiet streets designated and signed as preferred bike routes.
The street that I was turning onto, when I had my incident which
inspired
this song, has bike lanes, and the first thing that I did when I got
through the intersection was to get into the bike lane so that I
would (in principle) be safer from the idiot behind me.
Barry Gold
>Barry Gold wrote:
>
>> Amen. Around where I live, some bicyclists seem to think that stop
>> signs don't apply to them. Some even think that _red lights_ don't
>> apply to them. I sometimes wonder if these people are trying to
>> commit suicide.
>
>
>That is very common Barry.. I see it too,, I have had other bicyclists
>assault me because I stopped for a red light blocking their path.
>
>But the fact is that under the law, a Bicycle, is a Vehicle, and thus
>MUST obey all vehicle laws (At least in Michigan)
[obfilk]
California too (California too)
Where the sky is blue (where the sky is blue)
...
>That means you yield or stop as the signs/lights say
>
>You don't speed (Yes it's possible to break the speed limit on a pedal
>bike, at least down hill in a residential area)
A former boss got a ticket for 40 in a 25 zone, pedaling downhill on a
moderately steep (and very straight) road. He framed it and displayed
it in his office.
Barry Gold
>One of the problems with Stupid User Vehicles (SUV's) is they have
>fairly large blind spots when compared to a car.
>
>This kind of goes back to my theory of why so many ford explorers rolled
>over and died some years ago but...
>
>In many cases a young, upwardly mobile (yuppie) couple gets married,,
>And soon baby will make 3.. So it's time to get a "Family Wagon" Well,
>for assorted reasons they get an SUV cause. that's the Yuppie Station Wagon.
>
>Now,there are a few significant differences between a true "Town and
>Country" station wagon and an SUV, The biggest is that the SUV is a
>truck.. My mini-van is a car, but a SUV is a truck.
YOu can blame your friends on Capitol Hill for SUVs, at least as I
understand it. You see, some years back they passed a law requiring a
minimum average MPG on each car manufacturer's output. And the
required MPG has been raised a couple times since.
*But* the American public has been generally uninterested in buying
the small cars that will meet that MPG requirement (except a couple of
years every decade, right after gas prices go through the roof).
So, to keep their sales up, they make SUVs. YOu see, SUVs are not
legally cars. They are, as John pointed out, trucks. So they aren't
counted against the manufacturer's required MPG average
There are, of course reasons why somebody might need a large car (or
SUV or station wagon).
1. A large family
2. Occasional trips where you carry a lot of stuff. (E.g., Joe D-I-Yer
who goes to the lumber store every few weeks to buy a bunch of 12'
long 2x4s. Or us. When we go to a filk or a convention, we need
somewhere around 18 cu ft. of luggage space for the guitar (soon to be
guitars), songbooks, copies of Xenofilkia and Filker Up and various
other songbooks to sell).
There's a filksong in there somewhere...
And of course some people need AWD,which for some reaosn is mostly
installed on SUVs. Even if you only take one off-road trip a month,
you're still more likely to buy an SUV than to buy a smaller car for
commuting and rent an SUV for that monthly trip.
I'm not sure of the economics of this. The SUV costs more than the
smaller car, and of course takes a lot more gas. But renting a car
for even a day costs a fair amount of money. And then there's the
time involved: I have never managed to rent and return a car in under
an hour, even using a rental agency only a mile from our home. Plus
the difference between your own car that you know the foibles of, vs.
a rental car where you have to learn where the radio and air
conditioning controls are (and how they work -- there seems to be no
standardization on placement or meaning of the controls for car
radios, ever since they stopped using the "turn the knob to move the
pointer", plus 5 selector buttons).
Offered for your amusement:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYK4HDoo0YM
Kip Williams
> Then there's the ones who ride on the sidewalk(*). I find myself wanting
> to stop and explain to them why that's a bad idea (and not only
> because it's hard on the pedestrians).
I rode on the sidewalk on those few occasions when I had to go all the
way down Warwick in Newport News, Virginia. I had to go to the auto
junkyards to get a part so our only car would work. The alternative was
risking death. Sorry.
I instructed my five-year-old daughter to ride on the sidewalk on our
busy street in Massachusetts in order to get to the next block
cul-de-sac, where she could practice her riding on a real street. Again,
since so many drivers added 20 to the 25 mph speed limit, it seemed the
only prudent course. Sorry again.
Kip W
Kip Williams
Some studies say that bike lanes are even less safe. I'm not here to
defend the proposition, but I just mention it.
I've had people argue that this even applies to bike lanes that are
completely separate from any roadway. Makes me wonder, all right.
Kip W
Harold Groot
>1. A large family
>2. Occasional trips where you carry a lot of stuff. (E.g., Joe D-I-Yer
>who goes to the lumber store every few weeks to buy a bunch of 12'
>long 2x4s. Or us. When we go to a filk or a convention, we need
>somewhere around 18 cu ft. of luggage space for the guitar (soon to be
>guitars), songbooks, copies of Xenofilkia and Filker Up and various
>other songbooks to sell).
Back in my days in Windbourne, we would reasonably often fill up one
of the largest SUVs ever made. One time we completely filled up two
of them. Picture this:
At the border patrol checkpoint near Camp Pendleton: Up pulls a
red-and-white 1975 Chevy Suburban with 5 people, suitcases, guitars
and sound gear piled a bit higher than window level. It gets waved
through. Then up pulls a red-and-white 1974 Chevy Suburban with 5
people, suitcases, guitars and sound gear piled a bit higher than
window level. It gets waved through. Then there's a beautiful
double-take by the officer as he stares at the departing 2nd Suburban.
10 people and their gear for a convention (with performances) in 2
vehicles, with clear visibility through the back windows and nothing
piled high enough to get thrown forward onto the passengers in the
event of a sudden stop.
We didn't always fill them that full, but it was often enough to be
worthwhile having them even if a lot of the time they ran with much
less in them.
1974 and 1975 were the model years of the physically biggest
Suburbans. After that they started shrinking in size. When Ford
later (90s?) came out with their "2 feet longer than a Suburban"
super-big SUV (Expedition?), it was roughly the same size as the old
74/75 Suburbans.
Still, as long as they know you actually have a legitimate use for all
that space most people don't object to you owning an SUV. But they
don't always get to see that legitimate use. They may see "The lone
driver commuting to work" trip much more often than the "Filled to the
brim heading to a convention" trip, since the commute trip happens
much more often.
Barney Evans
> On 14 Oct 2009 17:29:07 GMT, bg...@nyx.net (Barry Gold) wrote:
>
>> 1. A large family
>> 2. Occasional trips where you carry a lot of stuff. (E.g., Joe D-I-Yer
>> who goes to the lumber store every few weeks to buy a bunch of 12'
>> long 2x4s. Or us. When we go to a filk or a convention, we need
>> somewhere around 18 cu ft. of luggage space for the guitar (soon to be
>> guitars), songbooks, copies of Xenofilkia and Filker Up and various
>> other songbooks to sell).
>
> Back in my days in Windbourne, we would reasonably often fill up one
> of the largest SUVs ever made. One time we completely filled up two
> of them. Picture this:
>
> At the border patrol checkpoint near Camp Pendleton: Up pulls a
> red-and-white 1975 Chevy Suburban with 5 people, suitcases, guitars
> and sound gear piled a bit higher than window level. It gets waved
> through. Then up pulls a red-and-white 1974 Chevy Suburban with 5
> people, suitcases, guitars and sound gear piled a bit higher than
> window level. It gets waved through. Then there's a beautiful
> double-take by the officer as he stares at the departing 2nd Suburban.
And both of the vehicles had personalized license plates that said
Windbourne with slightly different spellings.
Barney
John Davis
> Some studies say that bike lanes are even less safe. I'm not here to
> defend the proposition, but I just mention it.
>
> I've had people argue that this even applies to bike lanes that are
> completely separate from any roadway. Makes me wonder, all right.
I don't know... The concept of a dedicated bicycle only path is that
without cars zipping by at way more than the speed limit you are less
likely to go SPLAT.
On the other hand..... SPLAT from a car (or truck) is not the only
danger.. and occasionally those paths cross roads where you can still go
splat.
As to are they safer, more dangerous or 6 v/s 1/2 dozen..... Not
qualified to offer opinion.. only analysis. and no data to analyze.
John Davis
> YOu can blame your friends on Capitol Hill for SUVs, at least as I
> understand it. You see, some years back they passed a law requiring a
> minimum average MPG on each car manufacturer's output. And the
> required MPG has been raised a couple times since.
Not only the CAFE (Corporate Average Fuel Economy) rules (For the
record the good old fashion "
" Station Wagon is the worst body design, MPG wise, for a car, and in
the Truck division the smaller SUV's and Mini-vans are among the best,
so by making a very minor change they upped CAFE numbers in both the
truck and car lines)
SAFETY requirements are different too... There are safety bars and a
"Survival cage" in a car, that need not be included in a truck, Air
bags, I don't know about today, but for many years they were mandatory
in cars, optional in trucks,, may still be (As I said I don't know)
So for the auto companies the Mini Van and SUV are win/win.. For us, not
so much.
Now imagine Mr. Yuppie, never driven a truck before, but he gets his
Ford Explorer cause he's married with child on the way (or just
arrived). Now the Explorer was built on a frame that was at least one
size too small for the body. Making it a bit unstable up front.
Now Mr Yuppie is tooling down the freeway at 90 MPH in the cars 70
Trucks 55 zone and he hits THE POT HOLE
Since Ford knows that folks are using these to replace the grocery
getter wagon, They run the tires 5 PSI softer than Firestone says to
run 'em (Gives a smoother ride at the expense of tire life) and at the
last oil change the technician forgot to check tire pressure.. Mr.
Yuppie says "Tires are new, they don't leak, I don't need to check 'em"
so now.. He's not 5 pounds low, he's 5 pounds short of flat.
When the tire exits the pot hole, the rim cuts straight through the
sidewall.> BANG the tire goes flat.. Mr. Yuppie, never having learned
how to operate a car properly, let alone a truck, stands on the brakes
with both feet (proper response is to floor it (The accelerator) in
order to re-gain control) and then, since the wheels are way out of
equal, promptly turns sideways, with his top heavy ride, rolls over and
dies.
This is NOT why I drive a Chevy.... but it is part of the reason why I
don't want a Ford.
John Davis
> Oh and encounters between cars and bikes occurred long
> before SUVs. As a frequent bike rider I know friends who
> have been hit by cars, have been hit by car doors being opened,
I've never been hit by a car either. .but when I lived in Battle Creek I
did a lot of bike riding, I had a windbreaker Normally wore,, All
florcesent yellow, orange and white.. I mean this thing would blind you
if you looked at it at night it was that bright.
I one car turn left in front of me and another pull out of a side street
in front of me
The first I had to lay the bike down to avoid hitting him
The 2nd I managed to stop with brakes... Chased him to the nearby
doctor's office and ask him why he dang near killed me..
He said "I did not see you"
I told him he was lucky the brakes worked of he'd have seen me land in
his lap.
Sandy Tyra
Indeed. When we are working a convention we drive a Ford Expedition and
pull a 12 foot trailer. Sound equipment takes up lots of space. I
overheard a conversation at the last GaFilk we worked wherein the
toastmaster, having been offered the use of some extra mic stands
commented: Thanks, but I don't think we'll need 'em. The sound man
brought a Guitar Center with him.
But for day-to-day Gerry drives a Hybrid Escape. We need that much
space for four adults (and the Escape gets 30 miles to the gallon, so. .)
We also to use the Expe if we are taking the dogs anywhere. Two adult
male Great Danes just won't fit in anything much smaller.
Now, day to day, I walk. I cannot drive. I have never had an incident
with an SUV, but have been nearly run down on several occasion's by
various other types of vehicles, including a purple semi. On one
occasion the driver was a teenager deliberately running his car at
Rhiannon and I as a joke. We still don't think it was funny.
Sandy
Sandy Tyra
Are "Bike Lanes" open to motorcycles? I could see where that would make
a difference. I once saw a woman in a wheelchair (non-motorized) using
a bike lane.
Sandy
Lee Gold
> But for day-to-day Gerry drives a Hybrid Escape. We need that much
> space for four adults (and the Escape gets 30 miles to the gallon, so. .)
We can fit four adults into our Toyota Avalon (six if they're friendly
because it has a bench front seat),whose mileage isn't nearly as good as
that -- about 18 mpg stop & go, about 22 mpg highway(plus it needs
mid-grade gasoline). I think we can also fit four adults into our
Mazda6 (five if friendly), whose mileage is slightly worse than the
Avalon's (but takes low-grde gasoline). Both cars do have trunks that
will hold a guitar, a suitcase, and four dufflebags (two with filkzines
for sale, two with filkzines for singing from).
> I have never had an incident with an SUV, but have been nearly run
> down on several occasions by > various other types of vehicles,
I have been hit when I stopped for a pedestrian, and while I was sitting
motionless due to a atop sign or traffic light, and while I sittingp
patiently at a side street, waiting for a break in oncoming traffic so I
could turn onto a main street. About ten or eleven vehicles have
rear-ended my car: one van, one truck, one SUV, and seven or eight
cars. I also once encountered a motorcyclist who I think was suicidal
because he keep hugging my car's blind spot till I finally eluded him
(signalled left lane change but went right) and he then switched to
another car's blind spot (hugging the car's left rear fender).
--Lee
Lee Gold
> Are "Bike Lanes" open to motorcycles?
(from a webpage about motorcycles in California) According to Section
21209 you can't drive a motor vehicle in a bike lane except 1) to park
where parking is permitted, 2) to enter or leave the roadway, or 3) to
prepare for a turn within a distance of 200 feet from the intersection.
--Lee
Mark Horning
> Joel Polowin wrote:
> One of the problems with Stupid User Vehicles (SUV's) is they have
> fairly large blind spots when compared to a car.
>
My experience is quite the opposite. Most cars have huge blind spots
compared to SUVs, especially at the A and C pillars. My wife's
Expedition has much smaller blind spots than my Mustang or say my
mother's Taurus. Most newer cars have high trunks and large C pillars
and you can't see worth a damn behind and to the side just off your
rear bumper.
The two times I have almost hit a bike rider both times the rider was
riding the wrong way (against traffic) at night without lights.
Kip Williams
> The two times I have almost hit a bike rider both times the rider was
> riding the wrong way (against traffic) at night without lights.
A lot of people have generalized from the grade-school advice to walk on
the right facing traffic to the conclusion that it must also be the
thing to do when riding a bike.
Riding without lights comes from the idea that they only have to be able
to see others, not to be seen themselves.
Neither notion is bright.
Kip W
Ben Newman
>
> Riding without lights comes from the idea that they only have to be able
> to see others, not to be seen themselves.
>
> Neither notion is bright.
Really, it should go without saying that riding at night without
lights is
not very bright. It's also a really bad idea!
~ Ben
Harold Groot
<mhor...@eskimo.com> wrote:
>On Oct 14, 6:26=A0am, John Davis <canit29-Motzare...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Joel Polowin wrote:
>
>
>> One of the problems with Stupid User Vehicles (SUV's) is they have
>> fairly large blind spots when compared to a car.
>>
>
>My experience is quite the opposite. Most cars have huge blind spots
>compared to SUVs, especially at the A and C pillars. My wife's
>Expedition has much smaller blind spots than my Mustang or say my
>mother's Taurus. Most newer cars have high trunks and large C pillars
>and you can't see worth a damn behind and to the side just off your
>rear bumper.
SUVs were also quite likely to have two LARGE outside mirrors with
both a flat section and a convex section. This really cuts down on
blind spots. Granted, you have to be willing to USE the mirrors....
Lee Gold
Barry's old exercycle had a pedal break.
When I went to get a replcement, I found that they don't make
exercycle pedals, just bike pedals, so the replacement pedal
had a reflector, so if someone drove a car into our ilving room,
and we had the lights off to watch some special movie, they would
have had a small chance of noticing Barry pedaling.
Nevertheless, I would like to say that Barry rides his (exer)cycle
at night without lights all the time in the living room, often in
dark clothing. But in general, I wish people cycling on the road would
wear something light-colored.
--Lee
Kip Williams
Yeah, but I thought I'd say it anyway, because that way I was saying
both things at once, which seemed to be slightly within the 'clever'
zone, where I was fairly sure folks would get it.
Kip W
John Davis
> SUVs were also quite likely to have two LARGE outside mirrors with
> both a flat section and a convex section. This really cuts down on
> blind spots. Granted, you have to be willing to USE the mirrors....
That last sentence was my point Harold... YOU HAVE TO USE THE MIRRORS
The yuppie who is used only to sports cars, Often never uses the spot
mirror, only the flat mirror.. and the result is... Well, what we are
talking about.
Another danger is, now days, called the I-Pod.. Drivers, be they driving
4-wheelers or pedaling their business all over town, far too often are
wearing a portable music device that uses headsets or ear buds.
And the result of this is they can not hear
The bicyclist does not hear the approaching motor vehicle
The driver of said vehicle does not hear the biker shout.
and again,, Disaster happens.
--
John from Detroit E-Dress is smoked, Replace INVALID with net
John Davis
> I have been hit when I stopped for a pedestrian, and while I was sitting
> motionless due to a atop sign or traffic light, and while I sittingp
> patiently at a side street, waiting for a break in oncoming traffic so I
> could turn onto a main street. About ten or eleven vehicles have
> rear-ended my car: one van, one truck, one SUV, and seven or eight
> cars. I also once encountered a motorcyclist who I think was suicidal
> because he keep hugging my car's blind spot till I finally eluded him
> (signalled left lane change but went right) and he then switched to
> another car's blind spot (hugging the car's left rear fender).
>
> --Lee
My daughter was pulling into the parking lot at work,, Behind a Taxi..
When Mr. Idiot in his white dodge pick up truck with a sign on the door
rear ended her.. Put the cab driver in hospital (Daughter is OK) she's
now car shopping for a new ride, the old one haveing been declared a
wash by the insurance company
Of course.. If they can not see your car Lee... What chance does a poor
bicyclists have?
John Davis
> Are "Bike Lanes" open to motorcycles? I could see where that would make
> a difference. I once saw a woman in a wheelchair (non-motorized) using
> a bike lane.
I can not speak for 49 states but here in Michigan it's human powered
only.. Bicycles. tricycles, addis-foot-mobiles (Line froma song) baby
strollers (Key word stroll) and such, No motors less it's portable
personal fan
Manfred Mann
<canit29-M...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Another danger is, now days, called the I-Pod.. Drivers, be they driving
>4-wheelers or pedaling their business all over town, far too often are
>wearing a portable music device that uses headsets or ear buds.
>
>And the result of this is they can not hear
>
>The bicyclist does not hear the approaching motor vehicle
>
>The driver of said vehicle does not hear the biker shout.
>
>and again,, Disaster happens.
Around here it illegal to use a heaadphones and a portable
music device while operating a vehicle be it a bike or
car.
This dates back to Walkmans.
Mark Horning
> SUVs were also quite likely to have two LARGE outside mirrors with
> both a flat section and a convex section. This really cuts down on
> blind spots. Granted, you have to be willing to USE the mirrors....
I grew up driving an F-150 towing a boat trailer (my dad liked to go
fishing and really liked it that he had someone else to drive). As a
result I use the right hand mirror almost exclusively. I once
borrowed a car without a rear view mirror (an Audi) and didn't notice
the missing mirror till I was 2 hours North of SLO on Highway 1.
Driving an older car without a right hand mirror is very difficult for
me. Even my old 65 Mustang I had in the 90's had an aftermarket RH
mirror.
If someone is driving 10 miles under the speed limit (and thus 15-20
under prevailing traffic) they are invariably talking on their cell
phone.
If someone is driving 10 under and weaving a bit in their lane, they
are usually texting on their cell phone.
Forget mirrors, I'd be happy if they at least had their eyeballs
pointed outside the vehicle.
Mark
Kip Williams
> Around here it illegal to use a heaadphones and a portable
> music device while operating a vehicle be it a bike or
> car.
>
> This dates back to Walkmans.
I always have a gizmo to play the portable device through the car
speakers. Formerly this was a dummy cassette that the unit plugged into
(which picked up car noise at loud enough volumes to be heard). Now it's
a radio transmitter (that picks up other weird noises).
I'm looking forward, in my next car, to something that plugs right in
and skips the middle stage where the noise comes in.
Kip W
Paul Rubin
> I'm looking forward, in my next car, to something that plugs right in
> and skips the middle stage where the noise comes in.
You don't have to swap cars for that :). Lots of in-dash car radios
these days have front panel aux-in ports. I bought one a few years
ago (you can get htem now for $100 or so), that also can play CD's and
can play mp3's directly from CD. It turns out I've never used that
port. I just burned a few CD-R's with mp3's on them and that seems to
be enough to satisfy my musical requirements when driving.
Joe Kesselman
> I read recently that a problem with hybrids is that they're too quiet,
> so people don't hear them coming. The article suggested that in the
> future they may come with sound generators, customized to the sound of
> the owner's choice. One of the sounds mentioned supposedly was like a
> starship (but wouldn't that be total silence?).
But, yes, that has been a complaint -- particularly from the blind
community. Haven't heard the idea of programmable sound generators, but
that wouldn't actually be all that useful -- you want it to be
recognizable as approaching vehicle rather than kid-with-a-boombox.
My suggestion was the sound of a playing card hitting bicycle wheel
spokes... <grin/)
On the other hand, it means that when police are on silent approach,
they can be significantly more silent... the same advantage that they
get from the silent hubs on police bicycles.
Kip Williams
> Kip Williams <k...@rochester.rr.com> writes:
>> I'm looking forward, in my next car, to something that plugs right in
>> and skips the middle stage where the noise comes in.
>
> You don't have to swap cars for that :). Lots of in-dash car radios
Well, I'm waiting for my '97 Saturn Wagon to reach the bitter end of its
life now. A couple of times a year, the "Drop Another Grand" light comes
on. Last time it did that (actually $1300), Cathy said that was the last
major repair we were springing for. We shall see. It has a cassette
player and AM/FM radio, so for now I play the iPod by plugging a doodad
into the cigar lighter that docks the pod while charging it and
transmitting to the radio. For a signal that has to travel less than six
inches, it has its ups and downs.
> these days have front panel aux-in ports. I bought one a few years
> ago (you can get htem now for $100 or so), that also can play CD's and
> can play mp3's directly from CD. It turns out I've never used that
> port. I just burned a few CD-R's with mp3's on them and that seems to
> be enough to satisfy my musical requirements when driving.
My wife's car has a CD player, but is far enough removed from present
technology that it laughs at mp3s. I can burn audio CDs that it will
play, but if we're traveling somewhere in her car, I just use the same
iPod dock. If our daughter is using the dock to run her DVD player, then
I just listen through my earphones.
Kip W
Michael Liebmann
"Sandy Tyra" <sa...@planet-tyra.com> wrote in message
news:hb7fh1$dj3$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>
> Now, day to day, I walk. I cannot drive. I have never had an incident
> with an SUV, but have been nearly run down on several occasion's by
> various other types of vehicles, including a purple semi. On one occasion
> the driver was a teenager deliberately running his car at Rhiannon and I
> as a joke. We still don't think it was funny.
>
> Sandy
I hope you sued the dorsal posterior surface out of that driver and its
parents.
As far as an SUV, I drive a Honda CR-V, which I characterize more as a
"sport cute." It is about 10 cubic feet larger than an Escape, can BARELY
hold what Southern Fried Filk has turned into, but when I do a show, for
instance, in Chickamauga or Ringgold (northern Georgia), I'll get anywhere
from 24 to 30 miles a gallon (which I actually did when I drove from Atlanta
to ConCarolinas once).
Michael
The Undertaker
<garym@_MYLASTNAME_.com> wrote:
>In article <hb9qg1$p6s$1...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> John Davis <canit29-M...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>> And the result of this is they can not hear
>>
>> The bicyclist does not hear the approaching motor vehicle
>>
>> The driver of said vehicle does not hear the biker shout.
>>
>> and again,, Disaster happens.
>
>I read recently that a problem with hybrids is that they're too quiet,
>so people don't hear them coming.
The blind can't hear them.
Another problem with Hybrids is the $2,000 to replace the battery.
Joe Kesselman
before there were SUVs there were cargo vans/minivans (which are more
useful) and hatchbacks (which can be almost as useful -- I used to pack
a 16-channel sound system with mains, monitors, and stands into the back
of a Civic and still have room for a passenger and two people's luggage
for a weekend).
Paul Rubin
> Sorry to continue the digression, but it should be pointed out that
> before there were SUVs there were cargo vans/minivans (which are more
> useful) and hatchbacks (which can be almost as useful
I remember reading that the whole reason SUV's were invented were to
make a minivan that looked more masculine.
Harold Groot
<garym@_MYLASTNAME_.com> wrote:
>In article <hb9qg1$p6s$1...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> John Davis <canit29-M...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> And the result of this is they can not hear
>> The bicyclist does not hear the approaching motor vehicle
>> The driver of said vehicle does not hear the biker shout.
>> and again,, Disaster happens.
>I read recently that a problem with hybrids is that they're too quiet,
>so people don't hear them coming. The article suggested that in the
>future they may come with sound generators, customized to the sound of
>the owner's choice. One of the sounds mentioned supposedly was like a
>starship (but wouldn't that be total silence?).
>Gary McGath http://www.mcgath.com
http://www.mercurynews.com/search/ci_13563124?IADID=Search-www.mercurynews.com-www.mercurynews.com
Lee Gold
>
> I read recently that a problem with hybrids is that they're too quiet,
> so people don't hear them coming. The article suggested that in the
> future they may come with sound generators, customized to the sound of
> the owner's choice.
I assume you wouldn't need to have your too-quiet hybrid be detectable
by sound when you were zooming down the freeway or highway but only when
you were moseying around bicycle riders and pedestrians, so perhaps the
sound could be set to turn on at 25 mph or less.
--Lee
Barney Evans
We once had a Honda Civic wagon and took three people, a small sound
system, a Roland D50, guitars, luggage from San Diego to San Jose for a
Consonance in the early 90s. It is impressive how much we could get into
that vehicle.
Barney
Sandy Tyra
> "Sandy Tyra" <sa...@planet-tyra.com> wrote in message
> news:hb7fh1$dj3$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>> Now, day to day, I walk. I cannot drive. I have never had an incident
>> with an SUV, but have been nearly run down on several occasion's by
>> various other types of vehicles, including a purple semi. On one occasion
>> the driver was a teenager deliberately running his car at Rhiannon and I
>> as a joke. We still don't think it was funny.
>>
>> Sandy
>
> I hope you sued the dorsal posterior surface out of that driver and its
> parents.
We would have if we could have - but we never caught up with them.
Rhiannon and I dived into the nearest yard to avoid been hit and when we
looked up the car full of boys was driving off. We could hear them
laughing.
I was actually in a rear-ender when I was 6 months pregnant with
Rhiannon. I wound going to the hospital that time. The car that hit us
was a 6 passenger coupe of some sort. I wound up going to the hospital
that time. I didn't really think I needed to, but I was having
Braxton-Hicks contractions and the paramedics insisted. In the
ambulance (which I shared with 2 of the three teenage girls from the car
that hit us,) one of the girls tried to tell her mom that the accident
was our fault (my friend was driving), but we were sitting perfectly
still waiting for traffic to clear so we could turn, and they were going
so fast that their car swiveled when they tried to stop and they hit us
with their rear fender!
>
> As far as an SUV, I drive a Honda CR-V, which I characterize more as a
> "sport cute." It is about 10 cubic feet larger than an Escape, can BARELY
> hold what Southern Fried Filk has turned into, but when I do a show, for
> instance, in Chickamauga or Ringgold (northern Georgia), I'll get anywhere
> from 24 to 30 miles a gallon (which I actually did when I drove from Atlanta
> to ConCarolinas once).
>
> Michael
That's pretty decent mileage!
Sandy
sandy
Sandy Tyra
> Sandy Tyra wrote:
>
>> But for day-to-day Gerry drives a Hybrid Escape. We need that much
>> space for four adults (and the Escape gets 30 miles to the gallon, so. .)
>
> We can fit four adults into our Toyota Avalon (six if they're friendly
> because it has a bench front seat),whose mileage isn't nearly as good as
> that -- about 18 mpg stop & go, about 22 mpg highway(plus it needs
> mid-grade gasoline). I think we can also fit four adults into our
> Mazda6 (five if friendly), whose mileage is slightly worse than the
> Avalon's (but takes low-grde gasoline). Both cars do have trunks that
> will hold a guitar, a suitcase, and four dufflebags (two with filkzines
> for sale, two with filkzines for singing from).
>
>> I have never had an incident with an SUV, but have been nearly run
>
> I have been hit when I stopped for a pedestrian, and while I was sitting
> motionless due to a atop sign or traffic light, and while I sittingp
> patiently at a side street, waiting for a break in oncoming traffic so I
> could turn onto a main street. About ten or eleven vehicles have
> rear-ended my car: one van, one truck, one SUV, and seven or eight
> cars. I also once encountered a motorcyclist who I think was suicidal
> because he keep hugging my car's blind spot till I finally eluded him
> (signalled left lane change but went right) and he then switched to
> another car's blind spot (hugging the car's left rear fender).
>
> --Lee
10 or 11??? Holy cr**! Have you ever been hurt in these rear-enders?
Sandy
Sandy Tyra
> Sandy Tyra wrote:
>
>
> 21209 you can't drive a motor vehicle in a bike lane except 1) to park
> where parking is permitted, 2) to enter or leave the roadway, or 3) to
> prepare for a turn within a distance of 200 feet from the intersection.
>
> --Lee
So, basically, no. Okay, that eliminates the problem that I was thinking
of.
Sandy
Lee Gold
> We once had a Honda Civic wagon and took three people, a small sound
> system, a Roland D50, guitars, luggage from San Diego to San Jose for a
> Consonance in the early 90s. It is impressive how much we could get into
> that vehicle.
I still miss my 1966 Dodge Dart, whose trunk was big enough to hold a
spare door (which I bought for $10, as opposed to spending $5 for a
replacement door latch, when that wore away when the car got to be 21
years old).
--Lee
Lee Gold
> Lee Gold wrote:
>> I have been hit when I stopped for a pedestrian, and while I was
>> sitting motionless due to a atop sign or traffic light, and while I
>> sittingp patiently at a side street, waiting for a break in oncoming
>> traffic so I could turn onto a main street. About ten or eleven
>> vehicles have rear-ended my car: one van, one truck, one SUV, and
>> seven or eight cars. I also once encountered a motorcyclist who I
>> think was suicidal because he keep hugging my car's blind spot till I
>> finally eluded him (signalled left lane change but went right) and he
>> then switched to another car's blind spot (hugging the car's left rear
>> fender).
>
> 10 or 11??? Holy cr**! Have you ever been hurt in these rear-enders?
Some of them had me seeing a chiropractor for 2-6 weeks which I count as
being hurt but others might not. No, there wasn't any damage to my
flesh or bones: just whiplash to the neck & back and to the car (and
only one car got totalled: my poor 1975 Dodge Dart).
I can't staple fanzines any more (because you use your neck muscles to
staple).
And I keep a neck brace in my car and by my computer and by the couch
where we watch TV, because if my neck starts hurting (maybe once or
twice a year) and I put on the neck brace right away, then the problem
goes away inside of the day, instead of necessitating more visits to the
chiropractor.
No other problems (and my chiropractor says that means I'm very lucky).
Most of the vehicles were only going 5-15 mph by the time they hit my
vehicle, maybe because the accidents were all at intersections.
--Lee
Kip Williams
> In article <4ad95cae...@news.west.earthlink.net>,
> que...@infionline.net (Harold Groot) wrote:
>
>
>>> I read recently that a problem with hybrids is that they're too quiet,
>>> so people don't hear them coming. The article suggested that in the
>>> future they may come with sound generators, customized to the sound of
>>> the owner's choice. One of the sounds mentioned supposedly was like a
>>> starship (but wouldn't that be total silence?).
>>
>> -www.mercurynews.com
>>
>
> It actually says "a cross between a starship and a Formula One car."
> Starships are silent, Formula One cars are really noisy, so maybe it
> gets a reasonable sound level in the balance.
>
> I think it would be fun to have a sound generator that sounded like a
> Model T.
Or a certain Maxwell car.
Kip W
Sandy Tyra
That counts as hurt. Whip lash is an injury to the flesh. Just because
it isn't bleeding doesn't mean it isn't hurt.
Sandy
John Davis
> Yeah, but I thought I'd say it anyway, because that way I was saying
> both things at once, which seemed to be slightly within the 'clever'
> zone, where I was fairly sure folks would get it.
>
>
> Kip W
Kip, I agree.. Some things need saying.. Even if obvious. and that was
one of 'em.
When I worked for the state, Everything I said on phone or radio was
recorded.. So we had to find creative ways of saying things.
"Head up exhaust pipe" applies to folks who don't follow basic safety rules.
"Too stupid to live" was Sweet Sue's line that also applies.
And far too often.. Sue was dead on and yes, pun intended.
--
John from Detroit E-Dress is smoked, Replace INVALID with net
John Davis
> I remember reading that the whole reason SUV's were invented were to
> make a minivan that looked more masculine.
They might well give you many reasons.. But in fact the SUV has been
around a long time.. (Look up the history of the Chevy Surburan or the
International Harvester Scout) Or for that matter, JEEP
These are all Today, called SUV's but in the original they were more
Utility and less sport.. NO serious changes were made in the vehicle..
Just added the "Sport" to the name as a sales gimic
However by shifting buyers from low-millage Grocery Getter wagons they
up the CAFE for the car line
And by shifting them into relative high millage SUV trucks, they up the
TRUCK CAFE as well. A double win for the auto makers.
But the only "Invention" in regard to the SUV, was a marketing gimic.
And here is another question: The latest buzz word in the 'You gotta
have one' auto circules is "Crossover"
What the ()*@#&$)(@#* IS a Crossover vehicle?
John Davis
>
> Another problem with Hybrids is the $2,000 to replace the battery.
>
I can tell you how to pay for that battery no problem if you wish.. And
even if you don't.
Every time you gas up, Note your millage.
now, subtract the last fill-up millage from the current millage and
divide by say 20.. (Pick a good "All gas MPG number"
Now, that's how many gallons you'd have bought.. Now multiply that
number by the price on the pump when it shuts off.
Now, take that much money out.. Give to clerk in station, put change in
you choice of:
1: Low to medium risk investment account
2: Traditional bank, S&L or Credit union
3: Piggy bank
And when it comes time for a new battery.. Cash in the account/break
piggy bank and start over with the change that remains.
Plus, with proper care a battery can last way longer than you think,,
The key is the care and feeding.
John Davis
Both of my In-Dash radios (1-Kenwood low end cassette/am/fm/fm one
Pioneer CD/AM/FM/FM have rear panel "Ports" in neither case is it a true
audio in. but 30 bucks gets you a line-in adapter
The Kenwood is designed to control a companion CD changer, and I THINK
can control a couple of MD units too (not sure there if they can be
adapted or not) But it does line in well.. Just one item though
The Pioneer can do a daisy chain, Sirius radio, CD-Changer (don't know
about md) and Line IN are some of the options.
John Davis
> Around here it illegal to use a heaadphones and a portable
> music device while operating a vehicle be it a bike or
> car.
I know of at least one city where it's illegal to WALK with a walkman
type device... Here's why.. Woman was walking along wearing her walkman
and walked right under a semi truck.. SQUISH.
However state wide I do not (NOTE: I have made no attempt to check)
Believe Michigan has such a law.
I have, however. Seen an off duty State Trooper wearing his walkman ear
buds as he drove into the post parking lot.....
I think, that was the last time he did that though....
Cindy Wells
@news.eternal-september.org:
<snip>
>
> And here is another question: The latest buzz word in the 'You gotta
> have one' auto circules is "Crossover"
>
> What the ()*@#&$)(@#* IS a Crossover vehicle?
It's a car frame (and shocks) with small sport utility body. It's a
great sales pitch but not really useful for significant loads.
Cindy Wells
(My family has/had efficient cars for the commutes and trucks for
hauling (Suburban and heavy duty vans for people and their stuff and dog
moving and now a pick-up for hauling hay). The station wagon was nice
before the van but filled up too fast.)
Mark Horning
> John Davis <canit29-Motzare...@yahoo.com> wrote in news:hbg3ep$8kr$1
> @news.eternal-september.org:
>
> <snip>
>
>
>
> > And here is another question: The latest buzz word in the 'You gotta
> > have one' auto circules is "Crossover"
>
> > What the ()*@#&$)(@#* IS a Crossover vehicle?
>
> It's a car frame (and shocks) with small sport utility body. It's a
> great sales pitch but not really useful for significant loads.
>
platform, with a unibody (i.e. monocoque) construction rather than
body on frame. For example the Ford Escape (or Saturn Vue). Even
though it looks like a smaller version of the Explorer and is
generally marketed as an SUV it is actually built on a car chassis and
therefore it's off-road performance is more or less abysmal.
Unibody construction and FWD make for a lighter viehicle, so a
crossover gets better gas millage than a proper SUV.
At the same time they drive funny (like most small cars), because they
are FWD instead of RWD.
High ride height, so you can see better, which has always been a big
selling point for SUVs.
Better ground clearance than a car, but not as good as a truck.
Or as my dad said "so it's a tall station wagon."
Now anyone who came to one of my house filks when I lived in New River
pretty much needed a Truck, SUV, or Crossover to get there. Some
folks actually confused 31st Ave with a dry wash, and turned around
100 yards from the filk. Yes the road was that bad. And that was
when it was dry. If it was raining I needed 4-wheel drive to get out
of the driveway.
Mark E. Horning,
Physicist, Mesa AZ
John Davis
Unibody construction and FWD make for a lighter viehicle, so a
> crossover gets better gas millage than a proper SUV.
> At the same time they drive funny (like most small cars), because they
> are FWD instead of RWD.
> High ride height, so you can see better, which has always been a big
> selling point for SUVs.
> Better ground clearance than a car, but not as good as a truck.
> Or as my dad said "so it's a tall station wagon."
Except for the height issues (Fords are generally Taller and narrower
than GM's by the way,, Leds to instability in turns, save for the muscle
lines which are way better designed)
And the "Drives funny cause it's FWD... (I don't think my mini-van
drives funny, save in bad weather where it's dang near impossible to
make it spin out like a RWD does)
That sounds like a Mini-Van to me.. Car body, FWD, Just a new name for
an old product, or perhaps a slightly "upgraded" product.
Mark Horning
Early minivans were RWD (e.g. Aerostar) newer ones are universally FWD
(e.g. Windstar)
But if you described a crossover as a minivan without sliding rear
doors you would be pretty much on the money.
And all Front Wheel Drive vehicles drive "funny." They corner weird
and are subject to torque steer. In a RWD car you accelerate through
a turn. Do that in a FWD and the back end will swing around. The
only real advantage to FWD is if you live in snow, since the extra
weight over the drive wheels helps you keep low speed traction in a
straight line. Also everything you learned in driver's ed about
recovering from a spin is backward in a FWD compared to a RWD.
The main reason I drive a Mustang is that it's one of the few RWD cars
still made other than trucks and SUVs.
Joe Kesselman
Joel Polowin
wrote:
> The only crossovers I want to deal with are electrical... <grin/>
There's the classic about the red VW microbus, of course.
Mark Horning
wrote:
<Discussion subject changed to "OK, so who has a minivan song?" by Joe
Kesselman>
OK, since you asked for it:
TTTO: Golden Eyes (Lackey/Fish)
Copyright Mark E. Horning, 10-19-2009 (20 minutes after I read Joe's
post)
A van is painted bright bizarre, a glimpse of vines where none should
grow.
A glimpse of flowers pained gold, that glitter in the sun
Ancient beast from years ago, who's only speeds are stop and slow
The ancient VW* micro bus, who's engine barely runs.
Slower than a snail he flees, and drives the lane between the trees
And you are steady his track, and half a length behind
The oil smoke upon the breeze, you can not pass and cannot see
the threadbare tires on his wheels, or the uphill grade ahead
And now he summons all his wit, every trick so you can't pass
Stuck upon the twisting track, inches from the steel guard rails
On the brake and on the gas, you half convinced he's smoking grass
Dodging halfway 'cross the track, your passing effort fails
The pancake engine, hot and slow, the tranny wheezing in distress,
He blocks the only pathway out, and will not let you by.
Heaving groaning with the stress, belching smoke it can't suppress,
Weaving wide, can't pass beside. You wish the beast would die
But what is this to your amaze, the man has pulled off to the side
He reaches out, he waves you by, a smile upon his face
the mountain road has reached a pass, a passing lane is yours at last
Before your eyes to your surprise, four lanes in its place
The Hippy we have sought in vain, the painted van so bright bizarre
The wheezing VW micro-bus, a sight none will forget
Who once has seen him near or far, in your truck or in your car,
Though Road rage winds within your mind. No one has shot him yet...
*For proper scansion pronounce VW as "vee-dub"
um, anyone care to sugfest a title?
In case it's not clear, I really hate driving behind mini-vans. I
always seem to get stuck behind on on the mountain passes between AZ
and Cali.
Mark E. Horning, Physicist
Mesa AZ
P.F. Bruns
> On Oct 19, 4:38 pm, Joe Kesselman<keshlam.cat.nos...@verizon.net>
> wrote:
>
> <Discussion subject changed to "OK, so who has a minivan song?" by Joe
> Kesselman>
>
>
> OK, since you asked for it:
>
> TTTO: Golden Eyes (Lackey/Fish)
> Copyright Mark E. Horning, 10-19-2009 (20 minutes after I read Joe's
> post)
One awesome song deserves another, but here's all I have ;) :
Aztek
Music and lyrics �2009 P.F. Bruns. All rights reserved under the
Creative Commons Non-Commercial Share-Alike with Attribution License
(BY-NC-SA), version 3.0.
There are songs about Cadillacs and Mustangs, the 409 and the GTO
But no one ever sings about the also-rans though people drive 'em even so
And there's a ride that will get you there in comfort, and works when
there's a job to do
And it even sold well in a different shell called the Buick Rendezvous
It's got a bunch of great new features and a ton of cargo bins
And the decent fuel economy forgives a lot of styling sins
They designed it in a computer, about as far out as they could go
Part car, part van, part SUV, and a whole lot of UFO
[Chorus]
It's the weirdest car you've ever seen but it's useful and it's really keen
Aztek
It'll carry a plywood 4x8 and it still has a nice soft ride
People laugh about all the plastic trim, but you don't see it from inside
It rolls like a luxury crew cab and it hauls stuff like a van
Who cares if the proportions didn't turn out the way they planned
It comes with a 12-can cooler and cupholders everywhere
And it may not quite be pretty, but at least people stop and stare
You can even get a special tent in back when you camp or fish or hunt
But please no jokes about getting one to cover up the front
[Chorus]
It's ugly as a bowling shoe but useful and efficient too
Aztek
[Bridge]
Some people think a car's a toy; for others it's a tool
For work and gear and groceries and getting kids to school
Some people buy a car for look or feel and some others just for fun
With the luck I have I'm overjoyed if I can get my ride to run
We can't all be Mustang Sally, or a Little Red Corvette
With a family and a budget you have to take what you can get
It may have too much fiberglass or a few too many scoops
But you won't give a damn in a traffic jam on your daily highway loop
Not everyone feels the need for speed or can't drive 55
Sometimes you just want to pick up groceries and make it home alive
And not everybody's chassis can be topped by a work of art
But you can have some practicality, a few quirks, and a lot of heart
Joe Kesselman
> TTTO: Golden Eyes (Lackey/Fish)
> Copyright Mark E. Horning, 10-19-2009 (20 minutes after I read Joe's
> post)
Nicely done.
The only point where I did a doubletake on scansion was
Stuck upon the twisting track, inches from the steel guard rails
I can make it work if "inches" is a pair of pick-up eighth notes, but I
wasn't sure if that was how you intended it to read.
There are also a few minor/obvious typos, which I"m sure you'll catch
when you take a second look. Instas are always prone to that, in my
experience.
For a title... Hm. I keep trying to turn "golden" into "gol-darn", but
that doesn't seem to go anywhere very quickly. Then again, neither did
the microbus.
(something) Pass?
El Clunker Pasa? (ducking...)
Mark Horning
wrote:
> Mark Horning wrote:
> > TTTO: Golden Eyes (Lackey/Fish)
> > Copyright Mark E. Horning, 10-19-2009 (20 minutes after I read Joe's
> > post)
>
> Nicely done.
>
> The only point where I did a doubletake on scansion was
>
> Stuck upon the twisting track, inches from the steel guard rails
>
> I can make it work if "inches" is a pair of pick-up eighth notes, but I
> wasn't sure if that was how you intended it to read.
>
> There are also a few minor/obvious typos, which I"m sure you'll catch
> when you take a second look. Instas are always prone to that, in my
> experience.
>
quickly and didn't bother to walk the 15 feet to the closest guitar.
I find that little scansion issues are always more noticeable when you
are playing as opposed to just singing. For me, the guitar forces me
to keep time, I don't know how it works for other folks. (Asside:
don't let me sing without the guitar either, it keeps me in key)
I had actually originally written "inches from the guard rails" which
puts the stress on the wrong beat of "inches" but adding the word
steel, puts one two many beats in unless you compress inches to a pair
of 8ths. One could use "hair's breath, from the guard rails. which
would return the proper number of beats and avoid stressing the wrong
syllable of the word inches.
Mark
Mark Horning
wrote:
> Instas are always prone to that,
I also just noticed I missed the main rhyme in the 2nd verse.
happy happy sleep dep, happy happy sleep dep.
better make it "or the grade ahead that winds"
David G. Bell
<hbit9p$f56$1...@news.eternal-september.org>
keshlam.c...@verizon.net "Joe Kesselman" wrote:
> The only crossovers I want to deal with are electrical... <grin/>
I have to keep reminding myself that your minivans aren't the ones I
know.
http://www.wheels-near-u.co.uk/gallery2/v/collectors/wales/ceredigion/dai/austin/
Well, that's not the sort of Minivan I knew, not with the bored-out 1275
engine.
ObSong: The Ballad of Mini Cooper
Well, my name is Mini Cooper. I was once as white as snow,
Till I met a Rally Driver and a-rallying did go.
He promised me fine trophies and I've got them all, it's true,
But surely, girls, you'll pity me when you here what I've been through.
He took me down a shady lane so dark I couldn't see,
And surely, girls, there never was a man as fast as he.
He laid me on a mossy bank and gave me such a fright!
He examined my suspension with a spanner and a light.
When he found that I was stalling, he flew into such a rage!
But I knew he was trying to get me to a very special stage.
So he tickled my carburettors and gave my points a touch,
And how could I resist him, girls, when he slipped in the clutch?
But my back and sides are scratched now, and my bottom's red with rust.
My bonnet's badly dented and my Hydrolastic's bust.
I've got no brakes to speak of and I think my head is gone,
So don't go into the forest girls without your sump guard on.
--
David G. Bell -- SF Fan, Filker, and Punslinger.
On the horizon, a carrier task force of the Salvation Navy was
turning into the wind, preparing to launch Zeppelins.
John Davis
> And all Front Wheel Drive vehicles drive "funny." They corner weird
> and are subject to torque steer. In a RWD car you accelerate through
> a turn. Do that in a FWD and the back end will swing around. The
> only real advantage to FWD is if you live in snow, since the extra
> weight over the drive wheels helps you keep low speed traction in a
> straight line. Also everything you learned in driver's ed about
> recovering from a spin is backward in a FWD compared to a RWD.
Well.. I've driven RWD and FWD and 4WD and I had zero problems
transitioning even when I was switching back and forth between two
different types.
And as for Torque steer.. Thought that only happened with inline
engines, Transverse engines (FWD is usually transverse) don't do that.
Or at least that is what I thought.
And spin recovery.. I don't recall if I've ever spun out the Lumina
(FWD) that I drive now or the Tracer (FWD) my wife used to drive.
but about the only difference is I might power out of a spin where as
with RWD I coast.. The rest is the same.
I do agree FWD is better on slippery roads.. Since it powers INTO the
turn. But the basic SLOW DOWN rule still applies.
Barry Gold
>
>> Then there's the ones who ride on the sidewalk(*). I find myself wanting
>> to stop and explain to them why that's a bad idea (and not only
>> because it's hard on the pedestrians).
Kip Williams <k...@rochester.rr.com, mrk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>I rode on the sidewalk on those few occasions when I had to go all the
>way down Warwick in Newport News, Virginia. I had to go to the auto
>junkyards to get a part so our only car would work. The alternative was
>risking death. Sorry.
>
>I instructed my five-year-old daughter to ride on the sidewalk on our
>busy street in Massachusetts in order to get to the next block
>cul-de-sac, where she could practice her riding on a real street. Again,
>since so many drivers added 20 to the 25 mph speed limit, it seemed the
>only prudent course. Sorry again.
In a situation where traffic is very fast, this can be a tricky decision.
Most of the time, the "right" (safest) answer is to ride on the street
even though the cars going by a foot or so away make you nervous.
Why?
Q: What is the greatest danger to a bicyclist?
A: Cars
Q: Is a driver going to hit you deliberately?
A: Probably not. The paperwork is a pain.
So, we know drivers won't hit you *if they see you*. When you ride in
the street, you're in a place where drivers expect to see things to
avoid -- car doors opening, other cars coming out of driveways, etc.
OTOH, if you ride on the sidewalk you are in a place where drivers
expect to see only pedestrians, most of whom move at 3-4mph. If you
are zipping along at 10-15mph, the driver may simply not look where
you are and go right through the space you are going to occupy in 1/2
second or so.
Hence, _most_ of the time you should ride in the street. But if the
street is particularly unsafe, the sidewalk may be your only logical
alternative (unless you can find a safer but still practical alternate
route).
--
Barry Gold, webmaster:
Conchord: http://www.conchord.org
Los Angeles Science Fantasy Society, Inc.: http://www.lasfsinc.org
Barry Gold
Crossover describes a vehicle that derives from a car platform while
borrowing features from a traditional Sport Utility Vehicle (SUV).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossover_(automobile)
WIYF.
Terry
Little Minivan".
--
--------------------------------- --- -- -
Posted with NewsLeecher v3.9 Final
Web @ http://www.newsleecher.com/?usenet
------------------- ----- ---- -- -
Kip Williams
> In a situation where traffic is very fast, this can be a tricky decision.
> Most of the time, the "right" (safest) answer is to ride on the street
> even though the cars going by a foot or so away make you nervous.
>
> Why?
>
> Q: What is the greatest danger to a bicyclist?
> A: Cars
>
> Q: Is a driver going to hit you deliberately?
> A: Probably not. The paperwork is a pain.
>
> So, we know drivers won't hit you *if they see you*. When you ride in
> the street, you're in a place where drivers expect to see things to
> avoid -- car doors opening, other cars coming out of driveways, etc.
>
> OTOH, if you ride on the sidewalk you are in a place where drivers
> expect to see only pedestrians, most of whom move at 3-4mph. If you
> are zipping along at 10-15mph, the driver may simply not look where
> you are and go right through the space you are going to occupy in 1/2
> second or so.
>
> Hence, _most_ of the time you should ride in the street. But if the
> street is particularly unsafe, the sidewalk may be your only logical
> alternative (unless you can find a safer but still practical alternate
> route).
Not a good street to be in. The curb is high and very close. There's no
way to get out of the way of the drivers, who, if stuck behind you,
would do stupider and stupider things to get past you.
There were large stretches where I had alternatives to the sidewalks. I
used parking lots, vacant lots, and fields. When on the sidewalk, I went
slowly and cautiously and would stop sooner than hit a pedestrian. I
also kept an eye out for cars turning in and out, but at least I didn't
have to do that while simultaneously avoiding them for the sake of my life.
You weren't there. I was.
Kip W
Barry Gold
> John Davis <canit29-M...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>> And the result of this is they can not hear
>>
>> The bicyclist does not hear the approaching motor vehicle
>>
>> The driver of said vehicle does not hear the biker shout.
>>
>> and again,, Disaster happens.
Gary McGath <garym@_MYLASTNAME_.com> wrote:
>I read recently that a problem with hybrids is that they're too quiet,
>so people don't hear them coming.
Local fans Sheldon Linker & Toni Poper report that they have
occasional pedestrian collisions when the car is standing still. Not
even blind people, just folks who weren't paying attention.
>The article suggested that in the
>future they may come with sound generators, customized to the sound of
>the owner's choice. One of the sounds mentioned supposedly was like a
>starship (but wouldn't that be total silence?).
I think they mean something like the sound of the Enterprise or an
Empire battlewagon on your TV or a movie theatre.
But for actual warning purposes, what sound would better signal
people that "there's a car here" than... the sound of a car engine
idling.
Mark Horning
> >In article <hb9qg1$p6...@news.eternal-september.org>,
At parking lot speeds the tire noise of most cars is louder than the
engine. I'd actually think it's a bigger issue at residential street
speeds (20-25mph)
Kay Shapero
@m3g2000pri.googlegroups.com>, mhor...@eskimo.com says...
>
> At parking lot speeds the tire noise of most cars is louder than the
> engine. I'd actually think it's a bigger issue at residential street
> speeds (20-25mph)
>
In fact in many parking structures there's something about the texture
or content of the floor that enhances tire screech so that it's really
hard to drive slow enough NOT to get it, presumably for this same
reason.
--
Kay Shapero
FAQ: http://www.kayshapero.net/filkfaq.htm
address munged, email me at kay at domain name
http://www.kayshapero.net
Rich Brown
> In fact in many parking structures there's something about the texture
> or content of the floor that enhances tire screech so that it's really
> hard to drive slow enough NOT to get it, presumably for this same
> reason.
I noticed that when I was in the L.A. area. I have no idea why, but it
doesn't happen in Minnesota parking ramps.
--
Rich Brown -- rab -- Song Assasin -- FreeMars.org
Jeff Urs
> I noticed that when I was in the L.A. area. I have no idea why, but it
> doesn't happen in Minnesota parking ramps.
It's for the chase scenes in the movies!
--
Jeff
Barry Gold
>On Oct 26, 2:54�pm, bg...@nyx.net (Barry Gold) wrote:
>> >In article <hb9qg1$p6...@news.eternal-september.org>,
>> > John Davis <canit29-Motzare...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> >> And the result of this is they can not hear
>>
>> >> The bicyclist does not hear the approaching motor vehicle
>>
>> >> The driver of said vehicle does not hear the biker shout.
>>
>> >> and again,, Disaster happens.
>>
>> Gary McGath �<garym@_MYLASTNAME_.com> wrote:
>>
>> >I read recently that a problem with hybrids is that they're too quiet,
>> >so people don't hear them coming.
>>
>> Local fans Sheldon Linker & Toni Poper report that they have
>> occasional pedestrian collisions when the car is standing still. �Not
>> even blind people, just folks who weren't paying attention.
>>
>> >The article suggested that in the
>> >future they may come with sound generators, customized to the sound of
>> >the owner's choice. One of the sounds mentioned supposedly was like a
>> >starship (but wouldn't that be total silence?).
>>
>> I think they mean something like the sound of the Enterprise or an
>> Empire battlewagon on your TV or a movie theatre.
>>
>> But for actual warning purposes, what sound would better signal
>> people that "there's a car here" than... the sound of a car engine
>> idling.
>At parking lot speeds the tire noise of most cars is louder than the
>engine. I'd actually think it's a bigger issue at residential street
>speeds (20-25mph)
Sheldon and Toni experienced this with the car completely stopped,
e.g. at a traffic signal. At that point, the only sound coming from a
conventional car is the engine purr (plus any music or "music"
playing inside the car, and conceivably the conversations of the
driver and passengers).
Mark Horning
> Sheldon and Toni experienced this with the car completely stopped,
> e.g. at a traffic signal. At that point, the only sound coming from a
> conventional car is the engine purr (plus any music or "music"
> playing inside the car, and conceivably the conversations of the
> driver and passengers).
> --
> Barry Gold, webmaster:
> Conchord: http://www.conchord.org
> Los Angeles Science Fantasy Society, Inc.:http://www.lasfsinc.org
Well stopped vehicles are a different though related issue. A lot of
modern ICE cars have pretty quiet engines when stopped though. And a
lot of newer cars are or will be incorporating stop/start technology,
so that the engine turns off when stopped and immediately spins up
when you hit the gas. Not that I would drive such a thing as it
requires an evil automatic transmission at this point.
MArk