Talis Kimberley on Radio and Webcast
Rafe Culpin
4th December, and you can listen over the web.
The station is Swindon 105.5 at http://www.swindon1055.com/ - see the "Listen Live"
link.
The show is 'Art to Art' at 1pm to 2pm GMT
She'll be doing "a couple of live songs with a bit of a chat" - I don't know at
what time during that hour.
--
To reply email rafe, at the address filk co uk
Information on filk in the UK: http://filk.co.uk/
Joe Kesselman
> The show is 'Art to Art' at 1pm to 2pm GMT
Which should be... 8AM Eastern US? (I always get confused about whether
5 hours is the base time difference or with the summer offset.)
Rafe Culpin
keshlam.c...@verizon.net (Joe Kesselman) wrote:
Looks like it's GMT -5, yes. It should always be 5 hours difference between us
except when daylight saving changes aren't synchronised.
Lee Gold
I'm very fond of the World Clock at
http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/
Right now it's 12-1-09 23:13:11 GMT/Zulu/UTC
and 3:13 PM Pacific Standard Time, which should mean it's
6:13 PM Eastern Standard Time.
--Lee
John Davis
I have a program called ALPHA CLOCK on my system
www.irnis.net is where you find it. It is free, and designed for by/for
ham radio operators . This puts a small digital clock wherever you want
it on your screen and you can set it to either "Local" time or UTC, so
right now I show 8:27 in the bottom clock and 13:27 on the Alpha Clock..
Very handy.. It's one of several "dual time" programs on this laptop.
--
John from Detroit E-Dress is smoked, Replace INVALID with net
Rob Wynne
On my iPhone, the clock App lets me define several specific locations and
what time it is at each. I have it set right now to display Boston,
Madison WI, San Francisco, and London on a single screen.
(I can actually do those in my head pretty easily, but it's a nice reminder
of where some of the people important to me are and what time it is in
their day.)
--
Rob Wynne / The Autographed Cat / d...@america.net
http://www.autographedcat.com/ / http://autographedcat.livejournal.com/
Gafilk 2010: Jan 8-10, 2010 - Atlanta, GA - http://www.gafilk.org/
Aphelion - Original SF&F since 1997 - http://www.aphelion-webzine.com/
Mark Horning
> Looks like it's GMT -5, yes. It should always be 5 hours difference between us
> except when daylight saving changes aren't synchronised.
>
I encourage all of you to rise up against your daylight clock changing
overlords the way we did in the 60's.
Mark Horning, Phoenix AZ
Rafe Culpin
mhor...@eskimo.com (Mark Horning) wrote:
> I encourage all of you to rise up against your daylight clock changing
> overlords the way we did in the 60's.
http://firedrake.org/roger/time.html
Barney Evans
I like my DST overlords!! Of course San Diego is on the east side of the
pacific time zone, Arizona is on the west of the mountain zone. That
does affect when the sun sets. In the summer it sets at 8pm so we get
more light in the evening. This I like.
Barney
John Davis
> I like my DST overlords!! Of course San Diego is on the east side of the
> pacific time zone, Arizona is on the west of the mountain zone. That
> does affect when the sun sets. In the summer it sets at 8pm so we get
> more light in the evening. This I like.
>
> Barney
Though I understand your feelings, and that is why they invented DST to
begin with... It's wrong.. You get the same amount of sunlight no matter
how you set your clocks
Would it not be way, way, way, simpler for your employer to have summer
and winter hours.. Winter you work, (To quote the title of both a movie
and a song by Ms. Parton) Nine to Five
Summer you work Eight to Four
And you get the same effect.... Without messing up your clocks.
That, to me, would make more sense.
John Davis
> On my iPhone, the clock App lets me define several specific locations and
> what time it is at each. I have it set right now to display Boston,
> Madison WI, San Francisco, and London on a single screen.
>
I also have "Multi-clock" apps for both my computers and my PDA (If that
is I can ever re-locate my PDA)
And, the time zones I use, which include Eastern, Central, Mountain,
Pacific and Greenwich (London's time zone) I can also do almost without
thought I have been doing them so long (Over 40 years since my user ID
was issued me) We use Universal time (London) for logging as it
simplifies things with contacts in several time zones.. If we all use
the same clock, we don't constantly have to think of stuff like: If It
is 9pm here. What time is in in Guatemala?" I just send the e-card with
Universal Time (GMT/CUT/CTU) on it and he knows that it's a legit
card cause his log has the same time code.
(By the way.. I worked Guatemala just a couple nights ago.. PSK-31
contact, That means my computer talked to, and listened to, my radio,
his computer talked and listened to his radio and via the radios our two
computers had a very nice chat.... Of course he and I were doing the
typing :)... I spend way too much time typing :) )
Mark Horning
The legend goes that we tried DST one year (1965 or 66). I think the
sun set the next morning. Seriously, we don't want to "save"
daylight, we want to box it up and ship it somewhere else. (We have a
lot of it, so we'd expect a bulk rate)
DST really messed me up one year at BayCon. (which is considerably
west and north of San Diego) I was really looking forward to going to
this Chesesteak chain up there. Well, we went out to get dinner and
the place I wanted to go to and 3/4 of the other restaurants were
closed. I'm trying to figure out what is going on, it's not that
late, it's still daylight for Ghu's sake. It was 9:30 at night, or
should I say 9:30 in the afternoon?
Lee Gold
> DST really messed me up one year at BayCon. (which is considerably
> west and north of San Diego) I was really looking forward to going to
> this Chesesteak chain up there. Well, we went out to get dinner and
> the place I wanted to go to and 3/4 of the other restaurants were
> closed. I'm trying to figure out what is going on, it's not that
> late, it's still daylight for Ghu's sake. It was 9:30 at night, or
> should I say 9:30 in the afternoon?
Westercon in Vancouver (July 4th weekend) saw sunset twilight after 10
PM and morning twilight around 4 AM, if I recall correctly.
But Baycon sunrise/sunset figures aren't that extreme.
See http://www.sunrisesunset.com/usa/California.asp
This year for May 25th, sunrise was 5:51 AM and sunset was 8:16 PM.
And yes, that's Daylight Savings Time.
Maybe what you were seeing was urban light pollution.
--Lee
Mark Horning
> Mark Horning wrote:
> But Baycon sunrise/sunset figures aren't that extreme.
> Seehttp://www.sunrisesunset.com/usa/California.asp
> This year for May 25th, sunrise was 5:51 AM and sunset was 8:16 PM.
> And yes, that's Daylight Savings Time.
>
> Maybe what you were seeing was urban light pollution.
>
> --Lee
It could have been WesterCon instead of Baycon (they were a month or
so apart at the same hotel).
Also to me daylight = sunset +45 minutes (i.e. civil twilight, no one
has their car headlights on yet), I understand you have your reasons
for thinking that daylight ends exactly at sundown though.
Lee Gold
July 1st in San Jose had sunrise at 5:50 AM and sunset of 8:31 PM, again
that's DST. It still ounds like urban light pollution.
I was taught to put on my car headlights half an hour *before* sunset.
And I keep track of the time when off at a filk because sunset Friday
marks when I stop selling stuff (though I still give copies to
subscribers or contributors) and sunset Saturday plus about 45 minutes
marks when it's dark enough to see three stars/planets so Sabbath is
over and I can start selling stuff again, so I think daylight lingers
about 45 minutes after day ends with the sunset. I might also refer to
that time as "magic hour" (because of having the late filker/fan/
would-be cinematrographer Ted Johnstone (mka David McDaniel) as a good
friend until he died back in 1977.
We're used to coming home from a filksing at around 1 AM and seeing the
sky a twilight gray because of urban light pollution in West LA (though
usually I need to bark at the back porch light or Barry needs to rap on
its light bulb -- either of which will turn the light bulb on, so he can
easily see the keyhole to unlock the door).
--Lee
Mark Horning
> Mark Horning wrote:
> > On Dec 3, 10:54 am, Lee Gold <lee.g...@ca.rr.com> wrote:
> >> Mark Horning wrote:
>
> >> But Baycon sunrise/sunset figures aren't that extreme.
> >> Seehttp://www.sunrisesunset.com/usa/California.asp
> >> This year for May 25th, sunrise was 5:51 AM and sunset was 8:16 PM.
> >> And yes, that's Daylight Savings Time.
>
> >> Maybe what you were seeing was urban light pollution.
>
> >> --Lee
Well, since we seem to have turned this into a serious topic hijack.
I know what urban light pollution looks like. I wrote Cochise
County's dark skies statute. I even wrote a Filk:
Four Stars
Music and Lyrics Copyright Mark E. Horning, 2009
She grew up in the city. It's the only life she knows,
Surrounded by glass buildings, and the neon city's glow.
And the only stars she's ever seen were on the picture show...
But there's four stars out tonight...
Refrain:
There's four stars out tonight
Four stars puttin' up a fight
Four stars, shinin' with a light
Yes, there's four stars out tonight.
Light posts at every corner to keep the night at bay
She glances at the heavens as she stumbles on her way
And wonders 'bout those points of light, shinin' through The Gray
At those, four stars out tonight...
Because we fear the dark, we have cast the night away,
But the light that's shining in her eyes won't keep her safe today.
In fact they only make her safer, better, easy prey,
Beneath four stars out tonight.
We've cast away our heritage, we've cast away the night
And trapped the very stars themselves in prisons made of light
She'll never see the majesty, or wonder at the sight,
Just, four stars in the night.
We can regain out legacy, the vault of all heaven
Turn off the lights, take back the night, restore the stars again,
I know that we can do it, though I don't know how or when.
Free the billions of stars out tonight.
Yes there's billions of stars out tonight
Billion of stars trapped by city lights
And one fine day we may regain the sight,
Of all those starts out tonight,
but there's just four stars out tonight
four stars puttin' up a fight
four stars burning oh so bright
just four stars out tonight
yes just four stars out tonight
Not recorded yet. I'll almost certainly put it on the next album
though.
Mark E. Horning, Physicist
Mesa AZ
Jeff Urs
> would-be cinematrographer
There was an old woman who lived in a cave,
Her sketches in charcoal the past to us gave,
She drew what she saw,
I filmed what she drew --
A cinematrographer, that's what I do.
--
Jeff
Lee Gold
> In article <hf8u5v$u9q$1...@news.eternal-september.org>,> The expression "light pollution" always gets to me. People should think
> about what it was like to live in the "unpolluted" world where lighting
> a fire was the only way to get illumination after dark. The "Earth Hour"
> fanatics want to go back to that, but there's a reason cities used to
> burn down regularly.
>
If you want to see stars (either because you're an astronomer or just
because you like stars and meteor showers without having to drive off to
the wilderness), you want a city where streets and sidewalks get
illuminated by something that won't easily start fires -- but the sky
stays dark. As far as I can tell, no one is working on developing this.
I remember in the 1950s being able to see Orion's sword and we still had
fairly good street and sidewalk lighting. I could see hundreds (maybe
even thousands) of stars at night back then (even though I never saw the
Milky Way in LA). Nowadays I'm doing well if I can see fifty stars at
midnight even on clear nights (without sea mist from the Pacific Ocean,
only two miles away).
My experience is that city fires tie in more with flammable roofs than
they do with what you're using for lighting (candles, gas lamps,
electricity). A lot of fires that take down just one home start with a
frayed electric cord or a short circuit in wall wiring, but they don't
spread nearly as quickly to neighboring homes if flaming embers landing
on the roof don't result in a home catching fire. A decade or two ago,
Orange County (Disneyland area) was thinking of reprealing an ordinance
requiring new homes to have fire-resistant roofs, and a 4th of July
bottle rocket started a fire that took out half a block of old homes
with old-fashioned wood (non-fire-resistant roofs) and stopped when it
came to the newer buildings, and the county government changed its mind.
--Lee
Rafe Culpin
nos...@see.sig.to.reply (Rafe Culpin) wrote:
> British filker Talis Kimberley has a spot on her local radio station
> this Friday
> 4th December, and you can listen over the web.
And all I could actually get was "Server is currently down."
John Davis
> My experience is that city fires tie in more with flammable roofs than
> they do with what you're using for lighting (candles, gas lamps,
> electricity). A lot of fires that take down just one home start with a
> frayed electric cord or a short circuit in wall wiring, but they don't
> spread nearly as quickly to neighboring homes if flaming embers landing
> on the roof don't result in a home catching fire. A decade or two ago,
> Orange County (Disneyland area) was thinking of reprealing an ordinance
> requiring new homes to have fire-resistant roofs, and a 4th of July
> bottle rocket started a fire that took out half a block of old homes
> with old-fashioned wood (non-fire-resistant roofs) and stopped when it
> came to the newer buildings, and the county government changed its mind.
>
> --Lee
There are several shingles which do not burn, For example Fiberglass,
instead of asphalt. However the most common shingle is still paper
reinforced asphalt, Quality shingles will have rag based asphalt (much
stronger and the better asphalts do better in cold weather).
Of course out on the pacific coast "Mission" type roofs are usable, that
is clay half tiles. 100% fire proof if it's clean (not so if it's
covered in leaves) That too don't work so good in Michigan (I'm not in
Michigan just now.. I'm in S.C.)
John Davis
> In article <hf8u5v$u9q$1...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> Lee Gold <lee....@ca.rr.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> about what it was like to live in the "unpolluted" world where lighting
> a fire was the only way to get illumination after dark. The "Earth Hour"
> fanatics want to go back to that, but there's a reason cities used to
> burn down regularly.
>
Contrary Ms. O'leary's cow never kicked over a lantern in the shed.
Light pollution is very real, as is Radio Pollution (I should know) So
much so that observatories need to be built far from a city for night
sky viewing, and the government has established a radio free-zone for
some radio observatories (including one operated by the Naval
Intelligence Service) in this zone even some cars are prohibited as they
make too much Electromagnetic noise.
John Davis
> I was taught to put on my car headlights half an hour *before* sunset.
I used to know the law off the top of my head.. at least Michigan's
(Which says the headlights must be turned on either before or after
sunset by so many minutes)
When driving the Motor home I always drive lights on
The car has (Currently malfunctioning) Daytime Running Lights.
The malfunction, I think, is a dirty relay.. I hear the realy clunk on
schedule but no light... I"m working on it, but alas the module is an
epoxy block type box. I have another electrical issue on the car too.
And the maker of the DRL.. I've not been able to re-track down (he moved)
Lee Gold
> Lee Gold wrote:
>
>> My experience is that city fires tie in more with flammable roofs than
>> they do with what you're using for lighting (candles, gas lamps,
>> electricity). A lot of fires that take down just one home start with
>> a frayed electric cord or a short circuit in wall wiring, but they
>> don't spread nearly as quickly to neighboring homes if flaming embers
>> landing on the roof don't result in a home catching fire. A decade or
>> two ago, Orange County (Disneyland area) was thinking of reprealing an
>> ordinance requiring new homes to have fire-resistant roofs, and a 4th
>> of July bottle rocket started a fire that took out half a block of old
>> homes with old-fashioned wood (non-fire-resistant roofs) and stopped
>> when it came to the newer buildings, and the county government changed
>> its mind.
>>
>> --Lee
>
> There are several shingles which do not burn, For example Fiberglass,
> instead of asphalt. However the most common shingle is still paper
> reinforced asphalt, Quality shingles will have rag based asphalt (much
> stronger and the better asphalts do better in cold weather).
Yes, I know. They're the ones approved in Southern California.
>
> Of course out on the pacific coast "Mission" type roofs are usable, that
> is clay half tiles. 100% fire proof if it's clean (not so if it's
> covered in leaves) That too don't work so good in Michigan (I'm not in
> Michigan just now.. I'm in S.C.)
They're a lot heavier and require more in the way of support.
I don't know how well they do at resisting breakage in winds of 50+ mph.
I'm absolutely sure they're unsuitable for areas that get snow.
They do insulate an attic better against heat/cold.
Last time we reroofed, we went with fire-resistant shingles. (I'm not
sure of the exact makeup. They're supposed to last thirty years, which
is probably longer than we'll last.) Our previous roof was put on in
1980 and was getting close to worn out in 2005 when we replaced it.
--Lee
>
Joe Kesselman
> I was taught to put on my car headlights half an hour *before* sunset.
"If you're thinking about your headlights, they should be on."
(I much prefer the system I had in my last car -- entirely automatic.
Running lights come on with the key, headlights come on ever time light
level drops below some very reasonable threshold. I'm a bit surprised
that latter hasn't become the universal default mode.)
> usually I need to bark at the back porch light or Barry needs to rap on
> its light bulb -- either of which will turn the light bulb on, so he can
> easily see the keyhole to unlock the door).
(grin) Yeah, I can easily visualize that.
I keep mumbling about a motion detector...
Joe Kesselman
> The expression "light pollution" always gets to me.
It's a matter of what you want. Gratuitous light spill makes seeing the
stars much harder, which annoys many of us and is a serious problem for
serious astronomers. If you consider it an improvement, fine, but many
of us really don't.
Pollution, littering, whatever you want to call it -- it's wasteful and
unwanted discharge into a public space.
Joe Kesselman
> And all I could actually get was "Server is currently down."
Disappointing, though it makes me feel a bit better about having missed
the window. Maybe the station can be persuaded to post a recorded copy.
Rafe Culpin
keshlam.c...@verizon.net (Joe Kesselman) wrote:
I gather that's not at all likely - it's a *very* small non-profit local station.
Mark Horning
> In article <hf8u5v$u9...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> about what it was like to live in the "unpolluted" world where lighting
> a fire was the only way to get illumination after dark. The "Earth Hour"
> fanatics want to go back to that, but there's a reason cities used to
> burn down regularly.
Seriously, how hard is it to keep your photons on your own property?
Most light pollution is the result of poor luminary design and
inefficient implementation. There is absolutely no reason why a
streetlamp should shine onto my property or into my window when it can
be shielded such that it only shines directly onto the street (and
sidewalk if applicable) where the light is supposed to be.
Would you prefer the phrase "photon trespass"?
Mark E. Horning, Physicist
Lee Gold
> Lee Gold wrote:
>> usually I need to bark at the back porch light or Barry needs to rap
>> on its light bulb -- either of which will turn the light bulb on, so
>> he can easily see the keyhole to unlock the door).
>
> (grin) Yeah, I can easily visualize that.
>
> I keep mumbling about a motion detector...
A couple of decades ago, we got a noise detector that screws in between
the light bulb and socket. Its minimal level of noise is higher in the
daytime than at night, and you can adjust it. But nowadays night is so
twilight-ish that it takes a slammed door, a loud bark, or a touch on
the light bulb to activate it, even at midnight.
I don't think they make this any more, just the motion detector ones --
and I don't think those adjust so they're not apt to turn on when it's
daytime.
--Lee
Mark Horning
> I don't think they make this any more, just the motion detector ones --
> and I don't think those adjust so they're not apt to turn on when it's
> daytime.
>
> --Lee
The motion detector ones should have a photocell that prevent them
from coming on in daylight and adjustment potentiometer to set the
threshold of what constitutes "daylight"
Mark
Joe Kesselman
> The motion detector ones should have a photocell that prevent them
> from coming on in daylight and adjustment potentiometer to set the
> threshold of what constitutes "daylight"
That's what I've seen, on the ones designed for outside use -- including
the low-end units. Not perfect, depending on the environment they're
used in, but Good Enough.
"If it happens, it must be possible."
Harold Groot
<keshlam.c...@verizon.net> wrote:
>Lee Gold wrote:
>> I was taught to put on my car headlights half an hour *before* sunset.
>"If you're thinking about your headlights, they should be on."
>(I much prefer the system I had in my last car -- entirely automatic.
>Running lights come on with the key, headlights come on ever time light
>level drops below some very reasonable threshold. I'm a bit surprised
>that latter hasn't become the universal default mode.)
Our 25-year-old car has such a system (though no running lights). But
one thing it does NOT do is turn on the headlights when the windshield
wipers are going. That's now a legal requirement in California - but
there's a whole generation of people who grew up with "automatic-on"
headlights. For them, turning headlights on manually (and off again
at the end of your drive) was never a process they learned.
Compliance with the law is decent, but it could and should be better.
Kay Shapero
nos...@see.sig.to.reply says...
> In article <hfb7o8$k3n$3...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> keshlam.c...@verizon.net (Joe Kesselman) wrote:
>
> > Rafe Culpin wrote:
> > > And all I could actually get was "Server is currently down."
> >
> > Disappointing, though it makes me feel a bit better about having
> > missed the window. Maybe the station can be persuaded to post a
> > recorded copy.
>
> I gather that's not at all likely - it's a *very* small non-profit local station.
>
>
>
add a recording to it. They take up room, but not THAT much room...
--
Kay Shapero
FAQ: http://www.kayshapero.net/filkfaq.htm
address munged, email me at kay at domain name
http://www.kayshapero.net
Kay Shapero
Motza...@yahoo.com says...
Years ago there was a move to increase the use of low-polluting halogen
vapor lamps in properly designed fixtures to cut down the upward
component. I've no idea how that came out, though I do see a lot of
halogen vapor lamps around here. Trouble is, given the size of Los
Angeles, you still get an awful lot of it.
Joe Kesselman
>>> recorded copy.
>>>
>> I gather that's not at all likely - it's a *very* small non-profit local station.
>>
> If they already have a website, it probably wouldn't cost them much to
> add a recording to it. They take up room, but not THAT much room...
And if they don't, I suspect a site like the Virtual Filksing would be
glad to host it, at least for a while, so if anyone has the audio and
permission...
David G. Bell
<MPG.258356a8a...@news.west.earthlink.net>
k...@invalid.net "Kay Shapero" wrote:
With the added advantage that lighting designed to put the light where
it is needed needs less total energy to operate.
Though "where it is needed" can be more than you think, when crime-
prevention is taken into account. And anywhere the light hits the
ground, it bounces.
--
David G. Bell -- SF Fan, Filker, and Punslinger.
On the horizon, a carrier task force of the Salvation Navy was
turning into the wind, preparing to launch Zeppelins.
Rafe Culpin
(Kay Shapero) wrote:
> > I gather that's not at all likely - it's a *very* small non-profit
> local station.
> >
> >
> >
> If they already have a website, it probably wouldn't cost them much
> to add a recording to it. They take up room, but not THAT much
> room...
I don't know any details about the station, but obvious problems would be: Why add
just that one recording rather than any other? And adding everything would take
space and people's time. Even digging out one recording would be extra work in a
small volunteer run station. And what about rights? That show would have had lots
of other music as well. If they've only paid for a single broadcast, even just
researching and negotiating for the rights would cost far too much time for them.
But, as I say, I don't know any details - Talis might know more.
John Davis
> On Friday, in article
> <MPG.258356a8a...@news.west.earthlink.net>
> k...@invalid.net "Kay Shapero" wrote:
>> Years ago there was a move to increase the use of low-polluting halogen
>> vapor lamps in properly designed fixtures to cut down the upward
>> component. I've no idea how that came out, though I do see a lot of
>> halogen vapor lamps around here. Trouble is, given the size of Los
>> Angeles, you still get an awful lot of it.
>
>
The advantage of the Halogen vapor or mercury or sodium vapor is not
lower light pollution. it is more lumens per watt, they are more
efficient at making light so they lower the city's electric bill.
Of all the electrical and electronics I have ever dealt with only one
item is 100% efficient and that is a space heater. (Since all losses
are converted to heat)
John Davis
> Our 25-year-old car has such a system (though no running lights). But
> one thing it does NOT do is turn on the headlights when the windshield
> wipers are going. That's now a legal requirement in California - but
> there's a whole generation of people who grew up with "automatic-on"
> headlights. For them, turning headlights on manually (and off again
> at the end of your drive) was never a process they learned.
> Compliance with the law is decent, but it could and should be better.
Yup, hard to get used to doing for yourself once you are used to
automatically having things done
What is worse though is when you have automatic systems.... and they fail
John Davis
> I don't think they make this any more, just the motion detector ones --
> and I don't think those adjust so they're not apt to turn on when it's
> daytime.
Though not a screw in.. "The Clapper" (TM) has a sound detection mode.
You could plug in a floor lamp
and there are several other assorted sensors and such if you visit a
security store.... Most over priced.
John Davis
>>> usually I need to bark at the back porch light or Barry needs to rap
>>> on its light bulb -- either of which will turn the light bulb on, so
>>> he can easily see the keyhole to unlock the door).
Another thought occurs to me.. A company in Marshall Michigan makes,
among other things, automatic doors, Now many of those today are
operated by motion detectors but in the old days they used mats.
One of the special mat designs they produced was 12" by 12"
It is used in mental hospitals and the like to track the movement of
people (you lay it right under the regular floor tile) and in stores,
banks and such as a silent alarm.. (Or as a "Security key") either
steping on the odd color tile trips the alarm, or activates the
register. depending on the set up.. Even better than a hidden button
since the bad idiots nearly never watch the feet.
Lee Gold
> Lee Gold wrote:
>
>
>> I don't think they make this any more, just the motion detector ones
>> -- and I don't think those adjust so they're not apt to turn on when
>> it's daytime.
>
> Though not a screw in.. "The Clapper" (TM) has a sound detection mode.
That's for deliberately clapping to turn it on.
The original idea (like that of the motion sensor, I think) was to
notice intruders (in this case, ones who make noise) and unexpectedly
shine a light on them.
--Lee
Arthur T.
John Davis <canit29-M...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>The advantage of the Halogen vapor or mercury or sodium vapor is not
>lower light pollution. it is more lumens per watt,
There is a light-pollution reason for some of these lights
(such as, I believe, sodium vapor). Their light is nearly
monochromatic. Thus, a filter for just that small frequency range
allows telescopes to get a non-light-polluted view of the sky.
Admittedly it doesn't help a person just looking up trying to see a
starry sky.
--
Arthur T. - ar23hur "at" intergate "dot" com
Looking for a z/OS (IBM mainframe) systems programmer position
Kay Shapero
keshlam.c...@verizon.net says...
John Davis
> In Message-ID:<hfdm9n$cn0$1...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> John Davis <canit29-M...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> The advantage of the Halogen vapor or mercury or sodium vapor is not
>> lower light pollution. it is more lumens per watt,
>
> There is a light-pollution reason for some of these lights
> (such as, I believe, sodium vapor). Their light is nearly
> monochromatic. Thus, a filter for just that small frequency range
> allows telescopes to get a non-light-polluted view of the sky.
> Admittedly it doesn't help a person just looking up trying to see a
> starry sky.
>
bandwith" which makes them easier to filter out.
Tungsten and halogen lamps (which are also Tungsten) are more "White"
By definition white is the equal presence of all frequencies
(Wavelengths) and pink the equal Energy at all wavelengths. (Though I do
not think that would look pink) and thus impossible to filter.
Black, is of course the absence of all wavelengths.
That is one of the differences between Colors, and Pigments, where Black
is the PRESENCE of all and white the absence of all
So at school when they told you Red, Yellow and Blue were the primary
colors... Wrong, primary pigments.. Red, Blue and GREEN are the colors.
John Davis
> That's for deliberately clapping to turn it on.
> The original idea (like that of the motion sensor, I think) was to
> notice intruders (in this case, ones who make noise) and unexpectedly
> shine a light on them.
>
> --Lee
The Clapper (TM) normally responds only to sharp loud sounds such as a
clap or a shout, perhaps a bark.. but it has a second setting where most
any sound above a whisper will trip it and turn on the lights.
The "CLICK" of a door closing, or the shuffle of feet on a floor, or the
burgler tripping over the family Rottweiler or... Ok, so if he does
that last one you are not going to need light, the puppy will raise the
burgler's alarm level more than enough to cause his shorts to turn brown
and stinky :)
John Davis
> In article <hflmhk$kg9$1...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> John Davis <canit29-M...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>> So at school when they told you Red, Yellow and Blue were the primary
>> colors... Wrong, primary pigments.. Red, Blue and GREEN are the colors.
>
> correspond to the cones in the human eye, and thus are a particularly
> good choice. Printing typically uses cyan, magenta, and yellow.
>
Cyan is, of course a blue, and Magenta a red,
My point however was school teaches us Red, YELLOW and Blue as primary
colors.. but they are not, they are pigments.
The colors are Red, GREEN and Blue.. Hence the R-G-B connections on many
monitors... Using those three colors and no other you can make most any
color save flesh tone.. Don't ask me why they can not faithfully
reproduce flesh tone,
The point, however, was the difference between pigments, and colors.
The schools tell you "Colors" when they should be saying "Pigments"
Joe Kesselman
> There's no unique set of primary colors, but red, blue, and green
> correspond to the cones in the human eye, and thus are a particularly
> good choice. Printing typically uses cyan, magenta, and yellow.
There's also the question of subtractive versus additive primary
combinations; I believe CMY is mostly used as a subtractive set.
--
Joe Kesselman,
http://www.love-song-productions.com/people/keshlam/index.html
{} ASCII Ribbon Campaign | "may'ron DaroQbe'chugh vaj bIrIQbej" --
/\ Stamp out HTML mail! | "Put down the squeezebox & nobody gets hurt."
D.J.
<keshlam.c...@verizon.net> wrote:
>Gary McGath wrote:
>> There's no unique set of primary colors, but red, blue, and green
>> correspond to the cones in the human eye, and thus are a particularly
>> good choice. Printing typically uses cyan, magenta, and yellow.
>
>There's also the question of subtractive versus additive primary
>combinations; I believe CMY is mostly used as a subtractive set.
The difference is in how lights on a theater set handle color vs.
paint and color. One is additive and one is subtractive. Sorry, I
forget which is which.
JimP.
--
Brushing aside the thorns so I can see the stars.
http://www.linuxgazette.net/ Linux Gazette
http://www.drivein-jim.net/ Drive-In movie theaters
http://poetry.drivein-jim.net/ Aug 26, 2009
John Davis
> Theater lights, screen phosphors, anything that glows is additive. Put
> together red and blue phosphors, and you have light whose red and blue
> components are added together.
>
> Inks and paints are subtractive; they reflect only certain colors, while
> absorbing the rest ("subtracting" them from the incoming white light).
> Mix them all together and you usually get something that doesn't reflect
> any color very well.
That was more or less my point Gary... Lights. Screen Phospors and such
are COLORS, they add
Inks and paints are PIGMENTS, and they work differently (As you said
subtractive)
The point is that in school they confuse colors and pigments. Which, as
we have both pointed out, are NOT the same thing.
John Davis
> I think it's because flesh tone is never a flat color. Take away the
> texture and it just doesn't look right. (This includes all the "flesh
> tones" in the human gamut.)
That might be Gary.. That might be.. That good at colors I am not (I'm
not so much color blind as color ignorant.. I step out of a room and 2
seconds later I can not tell you what color it is.. Sitting here I can.
but I have to be looking at it... Of course it does not help that when
it comes to colors.. Save for some very strange ones. and in special
cases Red, Amber and Green,,,,, I mostly don't care)
Being cross trained in theater, where we use both pigments and lights.
Electronics, and a few other fields..... In fact I'm cross trained
enough that if I change hats suddenly white becomes black and black
becomes red.... Now,, let me tell you.. that, is
1: Very confusing to someone who is not trained and
2: Very dangerous.. Since the two hats are electrical and electronics.
Kip Williams
> We could imagine an alien species that samples at four frequencies; it
> would describe colors in terms of four primaries. Colors which look the
> same to us, but aren't spectrally identical, would look different to
> them. They'd consider us partially colorblind.
Would they treat us like dogs?
Kip W
Joe Kesselman
> sensitivity is concentrated on three light frequencies; it figures out
> colors by sampling them at three points, and interpolating the result.
More accurately, sampling three bell curves. "But the idea's the
important thing." <grin/>
Gary's point about the four-color alien thinking we were partly
colorblind has a direct equivalent here on Earth. Most mammals have only
two-color vision. (From what I've read, reptiles and birds have three
types of color cells, mammals lost one, and primates evolved another to
fill the gap.)
So your furry pet can't see all the colors we can see. And probably
can't see all the stars we can see either; smaller eyes have lower
resolution. (One downside of being reincarnated as a cat.)
Jeff Urs
I thought that some tiny subset of the set of human females could
indeed see a fourth primary color.
Does that answer your question? ;-)
--
Jeff
Rich Brown
> see a fourth primary color.
The number ranges from "a tiny subset" to "roughly half"
See:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color#Tetrachromacy>
and:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetrachromacy#Possibility_of_human_tetrachromats>
But we digress.
--
There's an apt-get for that.
Rich Brown -- rab -- Song Assasin -- FreeMars.org
Kay Shapero
Motza...@yahoo.com says...
is something I'd never thought about before. Now if I can only figure
out what the various color balance settings Neopaint offers me are
supposed to do... (RGB/CMY I sorta get, but what's Gamma Correction?
Color Channels?)
Harold Groot
<garym@_MYLASTNAME_.com> wrote:
>In article <bff1i5pp169t35cji...@4ax.com>,
> D.J. <jollyc...@cableone.net> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 09 Dec 2009 19:43:27 -0500, Joe Kesselman
>> <keshlam.c...@verizon.net> wrote:
>> >Gary McGath wrote:
>> >> There's no unique set of primary colors, but red, blue, and green
>> >> correspond to the cones in the human eye, and thus are a particularly
>> >> good choice. Printing typically uses cyan, magenta, and yellow.
>> >
>> >There's also the question of subtractive versus additive primary
>> >combinations; I believe CMY is mostly used as a subtractive set.
>>
>> The difference is in how lights on a theater set handle color vs.
>> paint and color. One is additive and one is subtractive. Sorry, I
>> forget which is which.
>
>Theater lights, screen phosphors, anything that glows is additive. Put
>together red and blue phosphors, and you have light whose red and blue
>components are added together.
>
>Inks and paints are subtractive; they reflect only certain colors, while
>absorbing the rest ("subtracting" them from the incoming white light).
>Mix them all together and you usually get something that doesn't reflect
>any color very well.
>
>All these tricks work because the human eye has sensors whose
>sensitivity is concentrated on three light frequencies; it figures out
>colors by sampling them at three points, and interpolating the result.
>We could imagine an alien species that samples at four frequencies; it
>would describe colors in terms of four primaries. Colors which look the
>same to us, but aren't spectrally identical, would look different to
>them. They'd consider us partially colorblind.
>Gary McGath http://www.mcgath.com
Back about 40-50 years ago there was major brand of television (maybe
Magnavox??) that used 4 colors of phosphors to produce their picture
in some of their sets. I'm wondering if it might have been aimed at
making flesh tones look better. I think it was a
red-green-blue-yellow combination. Since it used the same
over-the-air signal, I'm not sure how they decided to stimulate the
4th color phosphors. Or maybe, just maybe it was a holdover from
black-and-white TV days? I seem to recall that the "white" on a B&W
set was actually a mixture of blue and yellow phosphors. So maybe
they used just the RGB phosphors for a color signal and just the BY
phosphors for a B&W signal??
John Davis
> Back about 40-50 years ago there was major brand of television (maybe
> Magnavox??) that used 4 colors of phosphors to produce their picture
> in some of their sets. .....
I kind of wonder how this works.. Since the stations only broadcast RGB
they do not broadcast a 4th color. so if you built a 4-color picture
tube..... the 4th color would never activate.
John Davis
> And I'd like to thank both of you for the education, since frankly this
> is something I'd never thought about before. Now if I can only figure
> out what the various color balance settings Neopaint offers me are
> supposed to do... (RGB/CMY I sorta get, but what's Gamma Correction?
> Color Channels?)
Kay.... The use of computers and "Gama Correction" and such post dates
my training... so when you find out.. PLEASE TELL ME. Thank you
I do know some of it from fiddeling with the settings in Thumbs+ (which
I use as my digital photo manager/adjuster) but alas... Intuitive it's not.
--
Rich Brown
(sooner or later.)
Mark Horning
Gamma correction is basically how one maps a digital value to an
output signal. For an analog screen like a CRT, double the voltage =
double the brightness, at least until you reach phosphor saturation.
A digital signal is more complicated. Gamma is a function that maps
digital (DAC VALUES) inputs to screen output.
Generally speaking you want your gamma curve to approximate a log plot
to get the best dynamic contrast.
Joe Kesselman
> See:
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color#Tetrachromacy>
> and:
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetrachromacy#Possibility_of_human_tetrachromats>
Maybe that, and not just social conventions, helps explain why the
average woman has a larger vocabulary of named colors than the average
guy... Nah; if I'm any indication, it's just that unless we're working
specifically with color, guys just don't care about the technical
nomenclature.
> But we digress.
Often and enthusiastically.
Bringing this back to music, at least... I wonder whether similar
interpolating of overlapping sensitivies occurs in the auditory system?
If so, that might help explain why we're so fond of specific harmonic
relationships. (I do know that we perceive the appropriate beat
frequencies when different notes are presented to each ear.)
Joe Kesselman
> Since it used the same over-the-air signal, I'm not sure how they decided to stimulate the
> 4th color phosphors.
I seem to remember that broadcast analog video (NTSC at least) is
actually a hue/saturation/brightness system, and has to be
translated/decoded anyway... so adding another color should just mean
another channel in the decoder.
Joe Kesselman
> I don't know, but any set of three primaries produces a color "gamut"
> that usually misses some of the colors which humans can perceive. The
> phosphors available back then may just not have been able to produce a
> sufficient gamut, one way or another, with just three phosphors.
Which is one reason different color printers -- or films -- have
differing ability to render specific colors accurately, even when
everything's properly calibrated/standardized.
John Davis
> I seem to remember that broadcast analog video (NTSC at least) is
> actually a hue/saturation/brightness system, and has to be
> translated/decoded anyway... so adding another color should just mean
> another channel in the decoder.
Nothing wrong with your memory. and yes, that is all it would take.
However if every television station from Cabot Cove Main (To pick a town
name used in a TV show) to Los Angles (Many TV shows) Is broadcasting
3-color.
What good is a 4th color tube?
The company would have had to set up it's own competing television
stations, which of course would have limited viewers as only their sets
could properly display the 4-color signal. In short. a concept headed
straight to bankruptcy.
John Davis
Gamma correction is basically how one maps a digital value to an
> output signal. For an analog screen like a CRT, double the voltage =
> double the brightness, at least until you reach phosphor saturation.
> A digital signal is more complicated. Gamma is a function that maps
> digital (DAC VALUES) inputs to screen output.
>
> Generally speaking you want your gamma curve to approximate a log plot
> to get the best dynamic contrast.
So, you are saying I adjust Gama for best contrast.. Ok, that's the kind
of information I need. Thanks.
Rich Brown
> The company would have had to set up it's own competing television
> stations, which of course would have limited viewers as only their sets
> could properly display the 4-color signal.
Nope. NTSC color was blessed by the FCC. A station couldn't have gotten
a license to broadcast in a competing color standard.
Kay Shapero
@g22g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, mhor...@eskimo.com says...
> Gamma correction is basically how one maps a digital value to an
> output signal. For an analog screen like a CRT, double the voltage =3D
> double the brightness, at least until you reach phosphor saturation.
> A digital signal is more complicated. Gamma is a function that maps
> digital (DAC VALUES) inputs to screen output.
>
> Generally speaking you want your gamma curve to approximate a log plot
> to get the best dynamic contrast.
>
Thanks! I think this feature is going to be very useful.
John Davis
> Nope. NTSC color was blessed by the FCC. A station couldn't have gotten
> a license to broadcast in a competing color standard.
I very strongly suspect you have not clue as to how many different
standards are currently licensed in the assorted and varied radio
services... In fact I"m positive I don't know how many there are and I
have transmitters capable of over half a dozen standards.. Some text,
some audio, some video. Well over half a dozen.
It is very possible to get an experimental license for a new standard.
Happens all the time... how do you think all the standards built into
my hardware got there (Well, many of them are built into software on
this computer)
Scott Dorsey
>> output signal. For an analog screen like a CRT, double the voltage =
>> A digital signal is more complicated. Gamma is a function that maps
>> digital (DAC VALUES) inputs to screen output.
Strictly speaking, this is called the transfer function.
The gamma is the slope of the transfer function in the mid-tones. The
higher the gamma, the higher the apparent contrast.
>> Generally speaking you want your gamma curve to approximate a log plot
>> to get the best dynamic contrast.
The whole photographic chain has a lot of steps in it. In general, you
want a log-log plot of the whole chain to be straight in the midtones,
but with a gradual falloff on the head and toe. How gradual depends on
what you're shooting.
The notion of setting up the monitor is that there should be a standard
curve for all monitors everywhere, so that anything you display will look
the same anywhere and you can therefore select the appropriate curve for
a given image. (Unfortunately the dynamic range of the monitor and of a
piece of paper and of a projected slide are all different, so even with
proper calibration it may look very different in one format than in another.
In the silver photo world we tend to develop an image for a slide to a
somewhat higher gamma than an image that will be printed on paper.)
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Scott Dorsey
>Rich Brown wrote:
>
>> Nope. NTSC color was blessed by the FCC. A station couldn't have gotten
>> a license to broadcast in a competing color standard.
This is true. Back in the fifties the FCC went through an elaborate
evaluation of various different color systems. The RCA Compatible Color
Method was adapted by the National Television Standards Committee to create
a final standard which the FCC signed off on.
This was back in the days when the FCC actually had technical staff who
knew what they were doing, and administrative staff who believed the spectrum
was like the national parks, a natural resource held in trust for the best
use of the community.
>I very strongly suspect you have not clue as to how many different
>standards are currently licensed in the assorted and varied radio
>services... In fact I"m positive I don't know how many there are and I
>have transmitters capable of over half a dozen standards.. Some text,
>some audio, some video. Well over half a dozen.
Yes, and if you request a license to operate them on the TV bands, the folks
at the FCC will probably turn you down. Unless, of course you have a vast
amount of money, in which case they will let you do whatever you want. Ronald
Reagan's administration came up with the notion that radio spectrum, rather
than being a natural resource that should be administered for the benefit of
the community, was instead a natural resource that could be exploited for
profit.
>It is very possible to get an experimental license for a new standard.
> Happens all the time... how do you think all the standards built into
>my hardware got there (Well, many of them are built into software on
>this computer)
Yup, and CBS had an experimental license for their sequential field color
system. The FCC took it away when the NTSC report was published in 1954.
There's a big difference between an experimental license and a broadcast
license.
The FCC, however, started taking a hands-off approach on broadcast standards
with the coming of AM stereo. With this, they basically decided any station
could pick any one of a number of standards, as could any receiver vendor.
The resulting confusion and bungling basically killed AM stereo completely.
Let's hear it for deregulation.
Rich Brown
Rich Brown
> This is true. Back in the fifties the FCC went through an elaborate
> evaluation of various different color systems. The RCA Compatible Color
> Method was adapted by the National Television Standards Committee to
> create a final standard which the FCC signed off on.
For some unknown reason, my college library had a copy of the book RCA
submitted to the FCC. I think the book was from around 1947 -- the FCC
took a long time to evaluate the proposal. In addition to the specs, the
book had photos of prototype recievers (some with 3 CRTS, color filters,
mirrors, and an extremely limited viewing angle) and the script for test
programming (closed circuit audience tests from NBC studios to nearby NY
city theaters).
> This was back in the days when the FCC actually had technical staff who
> knew what they were doing, and administrative staff who believed the
> spectrum was like the national parks, a natural resource held in trust
> for the best use of the community.
FCC and RCA both. For example, there was a bunch of research into color
perception so they could decide how much to filter the "I" and "Q" color
components -- no sense using bandwidth to send extra color detail nobody
would notice. The whole thing was an exercise in getting as much useful
information as possible into a limited amount of bandwidth -- while
keeping the component count down at the reciever end.
You won't catch me slamming those WWII-era engineers.
> The FCC, however, started taking a hands-off approach on broadcast
> standards with the coming of AM stereo. With this, they basically
> decided any station could pick any one of a number of standards, as
> could any receiver vendor. The resulting confusion and bungling
> basically killed AM stereo completely. Let's hear it for deregulation.
Couldn't agree more.
Rich Brown
D.J.
<garym@_MYLASTNAME_.com> wrote:
>Not exactly. NTSC started from having to be compatible with black and
>white TV, so it has a luminance signal plus two color "sidebars." A
>similar technique is used in many color schemes that aren't forced to
>B&W compatibility (e.g., JPEG), because human eyes are more sensitive to
>brightness than to color.
And let us not forget that at one time NBC owned the patents for color
television. Which is why Disney broadcast his color television shows
in the early to mid-1950s on NBC.
CBS and ABC took NBC to federal court, and were ordered to share the
technology with CBS and ABC. License fees !
JimP.
--
Brushing aside the thorns so I can see the stars.
http://www.linuxgazette.net/ Linux Gazette
http://www.drivein-jim.net/ Drive-In movie theaters
http://poetry.drivein-jim.net/ Aug 26, 2009
Rich Brown
When I Was A Youth
ttto: When I Was A Boy
Frank Hayes
When I was a youth, my employer,
Was a part of that old N.E.T.
And so proud to be a deployer,
(of) Water-cooled COLOR TV.
And on Sundays I'd go to the tower,
To a hut at the end of the road.
Where I read all the meters each hour,
And made sure the diodes still glowed.
Yes, I walked (just a mile) to the station.
In sandals, level both ways.
Through blizzards (this was Minnesota)
Back in those Golden Days...
Back when Fargo was not even Near-go,
And the microwaves ran to Duluth.
And my heroes were Sarnoff and Dolby,
When I was a youth.
When I was a youth, all our networks,
Were simple, and quite low in cost;
We'd load all our tapes on a Greyhound,
(But sometimes a packet got lost.)
And you kids who complain "MTV's cut too slow"...
You don't know how you've got it made.
'Cuz when I was a youth every edit,
Was a slice with brass razor blade.
Yes, I walked (just a mile) to the station.
In sandals, level both ways.
Through blizzzards (this was Minnesota)
Back in those Golden Days...
Back when Austin was not even Aus-zinc
And the telegraph ran to Duluth
And my heroes were Farnsworth and Zworykin
When I was a youth.
We had no I.T. shop like folks do today;
No P.C.s when I was a youth.
And the scarriest thing's every word that I say,
Is the total and absolute truth.
And our stills were all slides in our film chains,
And our credits were rolled on a drum,
And our programs were all aimed at kids' brains,
And old TVs tuned down to "one".
And I walked (just a mile) to the station.
In sandals, level both ways.
Through blizzzzards (this was Minnesota)
Back in those Golden Days...
Back when Brainerd was not even Half-Brainerd,
And not-a-thing ran to Duluth
And my heroes were Ampère and Volta
When I was a youth.
http://freemars.org/filk/wheniwas.html adds hyperlinks (many now 404s).
Kay Shapero
rab...@freemars.org says...
> Obfilk:
> When I Was A Youth
> ttto: When I Was A Boy
> Frank Hayes
>
> When I was a youth, my employer,
> Was a part of that old N.E.T.
> And so proud to be a deployer,
> (of) Water-cooled COLOR TV.
>
Applause!!
Joe Kesselman
> Applause!!
Seconded!
Rich Brown
>
> Seconded!
Thanks! Now I need to find a National Educational Television logo
somewhere. Past searches with Google Images have been unsuccessful.
Lee Gold
>>> Applause!!
>> Seconded!
>
> Thanks! Now I need to find a National Educational Television logo
> somewhere. Past searches with Google Images have been unsuccessful.
>
>
http://members.fortunecity.com/tvnetworks/misc/net.jpg.
Are you looking for something else?
--Lee
Scott Dorsey
>In article <hg37tl$bsr$1...@panix2.panix.com>,
> klu...@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
>
>> Yes, and if you request a license to operate them on the TV bands, the folks
>> at the FCC will probably turn you down. Unless, of course you have a vast
>> amount of money, in which case they will let you do whatever you want. Ronald
>> Reagan's administration came up with the notion that radio spectrum, rather
>> than being a natural resource that should be administered for the benefit of
>> the community, was instead a natural resource that could be exploited for
>> profit.
>
>Reagan era, and it offers the only escape from FCC control. The "good of
>the community" is, inevitably, defined by those who are in charge. They
>may even believe that what they're defining is the good of the
>community, but the strongest input they get on what it is inevitably
>comes from those with the strongest interest, whether political or
>business in nature.
This is true, and because of it some really nice protections were put into
the Communications Act of 1934.
>A "national park" of television would be a pretty sad thing, with all
>but a few uses forbidden, and the government's voice the only one that
>prevails.
That's not how it worked at all, happily. The goals behind the system were
to encourage diversity of ownership and programming, and they worked pretty
well. In truth, though, the change in the radio industry since the age of
deregulation has been far, far more dramatic than the change in the television
world.
And a lot of this is because the broadcast TV networks are now competing with
cable programmers who are regulated in a very different way.
John from Detroit
> The "fairness doctrine" insured that there was very little free speech
> on television, and that broadcasters would avoid controversial content.
> That's thankfully gone, but the FCC continues in the same tradition
> where it can, imposing mega-fines for dirty words.
Though I do feel that the best solution to the dirty word's issue is the
channel changer.. If a network starts showing "The Potty Mouth Hour"
we simply boycott either 1: the show, and if that don't work 2: the network.
Problem is..... That don't happen
Same for comedians... I recall once telling Mr. Roper (Bill Roper for
those who don't know him. Founder, I think, of Dodeka records) how much
I enjoyed a show they did, and epically the fact that they did it
without resorting to dirty words.
Now... Many of today's so called comedians.. I'd be tempted to leave the
comedy club and request a refund, due to their language.
And, as the language on the streets gets harsher and harsher,,,, So does
life on the streets.. Now, I do not know which is cause, and which is
effect. but I suspect disrespectful language, leades to disrespectful
actions as well. In fact, it's a circle with the general lack of
respect leading to higher crime, harsher language, and more disrespect.
So.. Do I feel the FCC is doing a good job of policing our airwaves...
NO, as a matter of fact I don't.
Do I think they need policing.. Yes.
John from Detroit
> In article <hf8u5v$u9q$1...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> Lee Gold <lee....@ca.rr.com> wrote:
>
>
>> Maybe what you were seeing was urban light pollution.
>
> The expression "light pollution" always gets to me. People should think
> about what it was like to live in the "unpolluted" world where lighting
> a fire was the only way to get illumination after dark. The "Earth Hour"
> fanatics want to go back to that, but there's a reason cities used to
> burn down regularly.
>
There are several reasons.. One being that the buildings were not up to
today's codes and the second being that the fire departments were not as
"Able" as today's fire departments.
However.. Yes, fires used for both heat and light. often in fire places
that were not up to code or too close to non-flame-resistant cloth. High
on the list.