The old order changeth

[Gary McGath]

Some of us here are old enough to remember the protest singers of the
sixties and seventies. What they protested isn't important to what I'm
saying here. What is important is that they were eager to take on
controversial topics, to point out death and suffering, and to condemn
those they saw as responsible.

At this weekend's Festival of the Living Rooms, people have been putting
content warnings ahead of half their songs, to let listeners protect
themselves against hearing anything unpleasant. Someone told me today
that if I introduced a set by saying my songs would mention serious harm
that real people have suffered, I'd lose most of my audience. I don't
believe that at all, but it suggests that some people want nothing but
sweetness and blandness in their musical diet.

I wouldn't find much value in that kind of culture. It goes against
everything filk has been. I haven't performed a single set online;
trying to connect to an audience that's visible only through a computer
screen seems too difficult for me. I prefer the interaction of open circles.

But if I were asked to perform a set now, I'd push the edge as hard as I
could, to break the trap misleadingly called a "safe space." Here's a
possible set list:

This Is My Phone (start with something simple and fun, though even that
song mentions government spying)
Lullaby for a Benevolent Despot (warning of well-meaning tyranny)
Black Cats Matter (got to have a cat song; this one mentions animal abuse)
The Qualified Immunity Waltz (police violence and lack of recourse)
Monster (alienation, threat of violence)
Mary Dyer (woman killed, religious persecution, but an optimistic ending)
Heart of the Planet Pluto (got to close with a cheerful song)

I'd preface the set by saying that my songs will include serious,
sometimes painful subjects. If people walk out or disconnect their audio
in response, then I'll live with it.
--
Gary McGath http://www.mcgath.com

[Arthur T.]

In Message-ID:<sd2bue$9bb$1...@dont-email.me>,

Gary McGath <ga...@REMOVEmcgathREMOVE.com> wrote:

>But if I were asked to perform a set now, I'd push the edge as hard as I
>could, to break the trap misleadingly called a "safe space." Here's a
>possible set list:

If your set's going to make a statement, you might as well include
Music of the Right.

--
Arthur T. - ar23hur "at" pobox "dot" com

[Joe Kesselman]

There are times and places for everything.

Protest songs are great at a protest where the point is to force folks
to hear something they may not want to hear, or where people expect them
and want to engage with them. (Though the former, frankly, is rarely
effective; protest songs are much more effective at motivating the
faithful than at getting those who disagree to consider another point of
view. And I say this as someone who was part of an activist chorus for a
decade or so.)

If you know your song is something that will offend some part of your
audience, and it isn't clearly on topic at the moment, you may well want
to think about either holding off until a better time or letting those
folks know that they may want to step out of the room for the next four
minutes or so.

If you don't want to do so, fine. But I think it's inappropriate to
complain if others do want to issue whatever warnings they consider
desirable at the moment. Especially as you're the one who has requested
warning before "dead cat songs", which is an uncommon trigger.


Pick your battles, and pick your times to battle, and pick who you
really feel has to be battled with.


Obligatory song cue: Tom Lehrer's _Folk Song Army_.

[Gary McGath]

On 7/19/21 2:15 AM, Joe Kesselman wrote:
> There are times and places for everything.
>
> Protest songs are great at a protest where the point is to force folks
> to hear something they may not want to hear, or where people expect them
> and want to engage with them. (Though the former, frankly, is rarely
> effective; protest songs are much more effective at motivating the
> faithful than at getting those who disagree to consider another point of
> view. And I say this as someone who was part of an activist chorus for a
> decade or so.)

A carefully designed protest song may get people to think, even if they
don't initially agree with its point. Granted, it's very hard to do
that. Presenting little-known facts in a song can be effective. My
"Interfilk Wench Rant" may have helped in adjusting the Interfilk
wenching policy. I can't think of a case where a song by itself has
changed my mind, though. Some may have predisposed me to pay more
attention to other arguments; for example, my views on homosexuality
have changed greatly over my life (as is true for many of my age), and
songs may have helped me to pay attention to more prosaic arguments.

> If you know your song is something that will offend some part of your
> audience, and it isn't clearly on topic at the moment, you may well want
> to think about either holding off until a better time or letting those
> folks know that they may want to step out of the room for the next four
> minutes or so.

In a circle, I try to pay attention to the mood; if it seems necessary
to shift it (e.g., after 5 Firefly songs in a row), I'll say that's what
I'm doing. In a set, whatever I want to sing is on topic. (If a filker
sings it, it's filk.) Saying at the start of the set that it's going to
touch on dark topics may be useful.

>
> If you don't want to do so, fine. But I think it's inappropriate to
> complain if others do want to issue whatever warnings they consider
> desirable at the moment. Especially as you're the one who has requested
> warning before "dead cat songs", which is an uncommon trigger.

Have I? I'll take your word for it. I've requested time enough to flee
the room before "Nobody's Moggy Lands," but that may not be quite the
same thing.

The "uncommon triggers" is a point in itself. Phobias are, by their
nature, not governed by reason. It's hard to know in advance what topics
could upset someone in the audience. If someone interrupts me with,
"Please, I don't want to hear this," I'll pause the song, and depending
on the circumstances may give the person time to get out of earshot or
leave the song for another time.

[John Davis]

On Sunday, July 18, 2021 at 7:02:39 PM UTC-4, Gary McGath wrote:
> Some of us here are old enough to remember the protest singers of the
> sixties and seventies. What they protested isn't important to what I'm
> saying here. What is important is that they were eager to take on
> controversial topics, to point out death and suffering, and to condemn
> those they saw as responsible.

What many do not know is those Protest singers of the 50/60/70s suffered greatly
Though today many of us know and sing their songs many were "Blacklisted" and not allowed to perform in many venus.. (The old "Committee on Unamerican Affairs blacklist).

Many were true heroes of the time.

[david union]

Push the envelope for sure.

Many years ago at a Boskone Julia was performing "hands of god", and she said at a prior performance someone had complained
that it felt like it was poking fun at their religion and they found it offensive. She told them that if it reminded them of their
religion, then they ought to be offended.

This is my view, too.

If people can't take their beliefs and options being challenged, they don't believe in them well enough anyway.

See Kierkegaard's 'Knight of Faith' writing. If you really believe, then nothing anyone says can
make you feel uncomfortable or challenge that. Only if you doubt your own belief can you feel
threatened by someone else's views (or songs). And in that case, if you doubt your own beliefs, something is
telling you deep down inside, they might not really be right. Maybe you ought to listen.

Dave

[Arthur T.]

In
Message-ID:<3ba21de1-d735-4a40...@googlegroups.com>,

david union <david...@gmail.com> wrote:

>If people can't take their beliefs and options being challenged, they don't believe in them well enough anyway.

The mystic knows that doubt is always part of genuine faith.
- Stephen Prothero

[Joe Kesselman]

On 7/19/2021 12:57 PM, david union wrote:
> Many years ago at a Boskone Julia was performing "hands of god", and she said at a prior performance someone had complained
> that it felt like it was poking fun at their religion and they found it offensive. She told them that if it reminded them of their
> religion, then they ought to be offended.

I'm told that Julia has been very clear that the religion this song
refers to is a fictional one.

There are certainly times when one should challenge peoples' beliefs.
However, in most cases they will not thank you for doing so, and may dig
in more strongly in reaction. Pick your battles, and pick the time to
battle, to minimize unwanted fallout.

[Lee Gold XP]

On 7/19/2021 7:58 PM, Joe Kesselman wrote:
> I'm told that Julia has been very clear that the religion this song
> refers to is a fictional one.

reprint from Xeno #57

"THE HAND OF GOD" AND SOME OTHER JULIA ECKLAR SONGS
by Joe Ellis (reprinted from rec.music.filk with permission)


Gary McGath asked: Does anyone know what book/story (if any) the Julia
Ecklar song "The Hand of God" is based on?

Yes, as a matter of fact, I do... <<smirk>>
There are a number of Julia's songs that are based on a fantasy
storyline that is, for the most part, unpublished. Elements of it have
appeared in some of her SF stories. The only commercial publication I
can think of now is the short-lived graphic novel "Honor Among Thieves"
(two issues!) which introduced some of the characters. The three main
characters were Daven Turdock (a horse breeder, some- times mistaken for
a boy due to his jockey-like build), Galen (a sort of warrior/
priest/sheriff), and Darquementi, a carnival magician with real (if
sometimes unpredictable) magick.
Daven ran away from a cloistered community in the high mountains when
he was coming of age. It was a matriarchal society, run by the five
oldest women, who were known as the Hand of God. (Absolute control, five
fingers,... see?) Daven con- fronted the ultra-conservative Hand and
defied them when they tried to control him.

Other songs set in this mythos:
"One Man Magical Show": Dar at the carnival... Yes, there really WAS a
'Boneless Man' in the show. When the gods curse you, they don't do it
half-way! That's a story unto itself. And Rikki the Carnivorous Pony was
a failed attempt at a magical construction. Listen carefully to the
calliope; it's playing "Hand of God"!
"Temper of Revenge": The gods are real and still walk among the
mortals. There are two factions - the Creators and the Time-Chen, and a
great deal of hard feelings between them. The Creators are sort of
second-class gods,... not quite as powerful and unable to do some of the
things that the Time-Chen can. The TC even create better than the
Creators, but have only done it twice - horses and Humans. The heroine
of ToR is one of these 'created' humans (still a minor god to 'regular
people') whose life companion is killed by a creature created by one of
the most powerful Creators. She vows revenge, makes a sword, and Creates
a horse to ride to vengeance. (BTW, she is the figure at the head of
Galen's religion. Their symbol is her trefoil lance, and Galen carries
her sword: not a duplicate, her sword. He knows it's special, but he
has NO idea HOW special.
I know there are others, but as I recall, these are the only ones Julia
has recorded.

The story line of the fantasy is loosely based on a D&D campaign we
were in during our misspent youth at the University of Dayton. Julia's
character was Daven Turdock, the horse-breeder (his 'day job' -- you
can't adventure ALL the time!). Mine was Darquementi, the
prestidigitator/wizard. The side effects of his magic were sometimes
more dangerous/effective than the magic itself!
However, Julia developed the characters FAR beyond the scope of the
games, and also was the creator of the world in which they lived, so the
storyline and characters are truly hers. That was agreed to a LONG time ago.
We worked well together -- you might say TOO well. When rookie gamers
under an experienced DM take on a Balrog (NOT one of the D&D 'dumbed
down' ones -- it was meant to scare us off, but we were too stooopid to
know this...) and kill it, then walk around in leather armor made from
the membranes of its wings.... Well, they get a bit of an attitude. And
anyone who recognises the source of their armor tends to be a bit easier
to deal with. <G>
The songs are all based on material that Julia created, not on events
from the campaign. They are totally hers.

[Gary McGath]

Something else I just thought of: I don't want to raise a concern that
doesn't apply to me, when it could dilute serious ones. I am not
"triggered" by songs of any kind. I don't have panic attacks or
flashbacks. I just severely dislike them.

I know the difference because I've experienced real phobic reactions in
certain situations, which I'd prefer not to discuss here, and I've
occasionally had to help others to deal with phobia-related panic attacks.

That's not what I've experienced with songs of any kind. Please save the
concern at that level for people who need it. I should have mentioned
that the first time.

[Scott Dorsey]

Gary McGath <ga...@REMOVEmcgathREMOVE.com> wrote:
>
>Something else I just thought of: I don't want to raise a concern that
>doesn't apply to me, when it could dilute serious ones. I am not
>"triggered" by songs of any kind. I don't have panic attacks or
>flashbacks. I just severely dislike them.

"That's not a real chord! That's a so-called 'Jazz Chord.' Jazz musicians do that.
We do not."
-- My Piano Teacher In Third Grade


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[david union]

Not being a 'cat owner' I'm not a huge fan of cat songs unless they are
the kind of song that takes on a more general meaning for example
about loss, like Lauren's cat song this past weekend was fantastic. I could listen
to that over and over. But that doesn't mean I 'dislike' them in any specific sense.
Living, dying or dead cat songs, are all fine with me.

I suspect if the filk became a 'cat song theme' for really long, I'd probably leave for
a different filk room or on zoom, just go off and listen to recorded music and come back
later :) But a cat song here and there is fine... in fact any song... because
I enjoy that OTHER people, including the performer, are enjoying the
songs. That includes religious songs, even though I'm an atheist. In fact
I perform quite a number of songs that are religious or feature god in a positive way
not because I believe in god, but because it happens to be a good song, and I'm OK with that.

And as I said before, different beliefs don't bother me, I am comfortable
with mine. So I have no reason to change the words and sing it differently.

The only songs I find a bit bitter are ones that specifically advocate brainwashing
children (that are too young to avoid being brainwashed) to any cults, which I
consider most major religions in general to be these days.

That's probably the only time I am likely to change words about religion in a song
because I don't want to espouse this form of child abuse. I am in fact fighting with
a line in a song I'm learning now and trying to decide if I need to change it when I
perform it due to this.

[david union]

When Julia performed Hands of God at one concert I believe she mentioned the book
the religion in the song was based on. I no longer remember it, however.

[Igenlode Wordsmith]

On 19 Jul 2021 Gary McGath wrote:

>Some of us here are old enough to remember the protest singers of the
>sixties and seventies. What they protested isn't important to what I'm
>saying here. What is important is that they were eager to take on
>controversial topics, to point out death and suffering, and to condemn
>those they saw as responsible.
>
>At this weekend's Festival of the Living Rooms, people have been putting
>content warnings ahead of half their songs, to let listeners protect
>themselves against hearing anything unpleasant. Someone told me today
>that if I introduced a set by saying my songs would mention serious harm
>that real people have suffered, I'd lose most of my audience.

I don't think the protest singers of the 1960s and 70s gained a wider
audience by singing songs about death and suffering, or ever expected to
do so -- some of them were using their pre-existing popularity to push
an agenda that was more challenging to their audience, and/or voicing an
indignation that was already shared by their fanbase. As Joe Kesselman
mentioned, protest songs go down best with those who are doing the
protesting.

I imagine most of the unconvinced either turned the dial on the radio
station to find easier listening (and how many radio stations were
actually prepared to broadcast material condemning the Powers That Be?)
or didn't attend that sort of concert. On the other hand, folk ballads
about death and suffering have been popular since the Middle Ages...

--
Igenlode Visit the Ivory Tower http://ivory.ueuo.com/Tower/

The world owes you nothing. It was here first.