Re: Song: Dawkins' Atheist
P.F. Bruns
Quite good.
Best,
Perry
Paul Rubin
> Dawkins' Atheist
> Words: Gary McGath, Copyright 2010
> Music: Duane Elms, "Dawson's Christian"
> ...
Hehehehee, nice.
Dan Goodman
> There have been parodies of "Dawson's Christian" covering just about
> every religion
Satanism? Gnosticism? Unitarian Universalism?
And note that Arnold Toynbee considered Marxism a Christian heresy.
--
Dan Goodman
"I have always depended on the kindness of stranglers."
Tennessee Williams, A Streetcar Named Expire
Journal dsgood.dreamwidth.org (livejournal.com, insanejournal.com)
Eyal Mozes
> every religion
Really? I know the one about Judaism, but I've never heard of a
Dawson's Christian parody about any other religion.
P.F. Bruns
Do you happen to have the lyrics to the Judaism one? I've heard it
performed (brilliantly) by Sherman Dorn a few times, and I keep meaning
to ask him for a copy of the lyrics, and I keep forgetting. We are
separated by only a few miles and precious little free time.
Best,
Perry
Lee Gold
There's are actually two of them.
"Dawson's Mitzvah" by Nancy Louise Freeman & Janice Tuerff, 1992
and, inspired by it, "Dawson's Second Coming," by me -- Xenofilkia #43
--Lee
Lee Gold
> In article
> <8ed346ec-977b-4f11...@q8g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>,
> Ehrlich, and "Dawson's Pagan," I forget by whom. There's Lee Gold's
> "Bunyan's Hero," which has more to do with Christianity than the
> original song does, and lots of parodies which aren't religion-related.
>
"Bunyan's Hero" is in Xeno #6, and is about the plot of PILGRIM'S
PROGRESS, which I read as a neat piece of fantasy, though somewhat
annoyed by the anti-Catholicism (which I left out of the song).
--Lee
Lee Gold
> In article <hssj72$b92$1...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> Lee Gold <lee....@ca.rr.com> wrote:
>
>
>> "Bunyan's Hero" is in Xeno #6, and is about the plot of PILGRIM'S
>> PROGRESS, which I read as a neat piece of fantasy, though somewhat
>> annoyed by the anti-Catholicism (which I left out of the song).
>
> making at the Catholic Church must have gone over my head.
>
When you have two evil giants who used to menace wayfarers, one named
Pagan (now dead) and one named Pope (too old and feeble to be much
danger, but he mutters "You will never mend till more of you be
burned."), the anti-Catholicism should be detectable fairly easily.
Of course, it's just one little encounter in a picaresque novel with a
LOT of encounters.
--Lee
Rafe Culpin
McGath) wrote:
> > Really? I know the one about Judaism, but I've never heard of a
> > Dawson's Christian parody about any other religion.
>
> Well, I was exaggerating a bit. There's "Dawson's Mitzvah" by Gary
> Ehrlich, and "Dawson's Pagan," I forget by whom. There's Lee Gold's
> "Bunyan's Hero," which has more to do with Christianity than the
> original song does, and lots of parodies which aren't
> religion-related.
"Dobson's Pagan" by Anthony Gilbert was published in his "Parodies, Puns & Pathos".
It's, err, not religious. Other than the rites of Venus. Amy Dobson runs a brothel
spaceship.
--
To reply email rafe, at the address filk co uk
Information on filk in the UK: http://filk.co.uk/
Joe Kesselman
> Dawson's Christian parody about any other religion.
There's definitely a Dawson's Pagan (or neopagan, at least). Not sure
about others.
"Pagan? But I just paid!"
--
Joe Kesselman,
http://www.love-song-productions.com/people/keshlam/index.html
{} ASCII Ribbon Campaign | "may'ron DaroQbe'chugh vaj bIrIQbej" --
/\ Stamp out HTML mail! | "Put down the squeezebox & nobody gets hurt."
Joe Kesselman
> "Bunyan's Hero" is in Xeno #6, and is about the plot of PILGRIM'S
> PROGRESS, which I read as a neat piece of fantasy
Hm. This may be the second time one of your songs sends me in search of
the source material, Lee. The only exposure I've had to Pilgrim's
Progress was an amateur theatrical adaptation -- very amateur.
Lee Gold
> Lee Gold wrote:
>> "Bunyan's Hero" is in Xeno #6, and is about the plot of PILGRIM'S
>> PROGRESS, which I read as a neat piece of fantasy
>
> Hm. This may be the second time one of your songs sends me in search of
> the source material, Lee. The only exposure I've had to Pilgrim's
> Progress was an amateur theatrical adaptation -- very amateur.
>
I sought out the book at the library because of reading George Bernard
Shaw's review of a horrible play that wasn't nearly as good as the book
in his opinion. That was when I was in junior high. Later on, I bought
a copy of the book.
--Lee
Joel Polowin
> There have been parodies of "Dawson's Christian" covering just about
Very nice.
Now you've got me thinking about the pirate fleet, and weapon
beams, and shields harder than the heart of any whore... and it
sounds like it ought to be a song about the Lensmen.
Lee Gold
*LOL*
Hmm, that would make Dawson a Boskonian, right?
I'd love to see a song to that tune about "Jaime Retief."
--Lee
Wes Struebing
wrote:
Well, I sure enjoyed in it in 7th grade! ;-) (they called me a
precocious little devil..)
--
Wes Struebing
I pledge allegiance to the Constitution of the United States of America,
and to the republic which it established, one nation from many peoples,
promising liberty and justice for all.
Homepage: www.carpedementem.org
linkedin profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/wesstruebing
Joe Kesselman
> Hmm, that would make Dawson a Boskonian, right?
More likely that the pirates are Boskonians. Unless the song is written
from a smuggler's point of view.
Old song cue: "I don't understand the Arisians...."
Paul Rubin
> "Dobson's Pagan" by Anthony Gilbert was published in his "Parodies, Puns & Pathos".
>
> It's, err, not religious. Other than the rites of Venus. Amy Dobson runs a brothel
> spaceship.
Oh my. "Dobson" made me think of Rev. James Dobson. I wonder if
there's a version featuring him.
Rafe Culpin
Rubin) wrote:
Or even Rev. Charles Dodgson.
John Davis
> "Bunyan's Hero" is in Xeno #6, and is about the plot of PILGRIM'S
> PROGRESS, which I read as a neat piece of fantasy, though somewhat
> annoyed by the anti-Catholicism (which I left out of the song).
>
> --Lee
Thank you (For leaving that out) It is amazing how much
anti-Catholicism there is out there.. Of course I'm also amazed that so
many idiots claim to follow Christ but keep putting down the Jewish
folks.. I mean, do they not realize that Christ, the son of Mary, a
Jewish woman, was thus himself Jewish?
Leslie
>
> It is amazing how much
> anti-Catholicism there is out there..
Heheheheheh. I've noticed that the worst anti-Catholicism comes from
countries with a largely Catholic population.
> Of course I'm also amazed that so
> many idiots claim to follow Christ but keep putting down the Jewish
> folks.. I mean, do they not realize that Christ, the son of Mary, a
> Jewish woman, was thus himself Jewish?
Ooooh, the frantic fundamentalists don't want to be reminded of
that!
--Leslie <;)))><
D.J.
wrote:
Yeah, I grew up in a town full of such idiocy. That town is slowly
fading away.
JimP.
--
Brushing aside the thorns so I can see the stars.
http://www.linuxgazette.net/ Linux Gazette
http://www.drivein-jim.net/ Drive-In movie theaters
http://crestar.drivein-jim.net/ Feb 2, 2010
Michael Liebmann
"John Davis" <caint29-M...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ht3ung$m94$2...@news.eternal-september.org...
Doesn't matter.
Mike Van Pelt
Leslie <lesli...@cox.net> wrote:
>> Of course I'm also amazed that so
>> many idiots claim to follow Christ but keep putting down the Jewish
>> folks.. I mean, do they not realize that Christ, the son of Mary, a
>> Jewish woman, was thus himself Jewish?
>
>Ooooh, the frantic fundamentalists don't want to be reminded of
>that!
Hmmm... I've never encountered a "fundamentalist" who had a problem
with the fact that Jesus was Jewish. You'd kind of have to never
read the New Testament ... at all ... to miss that one.
--
Mike Van Pelt | "I don't advise it unless you're nuts."
mvp at calweb.com | -- Ray Wilkinson, after riding out Hurricane
KE6BVH | Ike on Surfside Beach in Galveston
John Davis
> Hmmm... I've never encountered a "fundamentalist" who had a problem
> with the fact that Jesus was Jewish. You'd kind of have to never
> read the New Testament ... at all ... to miss that one.
>
Well, I've seen many folks edit as they read as it were.
Most of the Fundamentalists I have met do not have a problem with
anything, if it does not agree with their fundment.. They simply ignore it.
Back in my Fido-Net days I had an automatic tag line picker/swiper,
(Swipimg tag lines was a lot of fun back then)
One of the tag lines was: Fundamentalists: The rear end of most any
religion.
Kind of accurate
Dan Goodman
> In article
> <84156577-718a-441c...@q36g2000prg.googlegroups.com>,
> Leslie <lesli...@cox.net> wrote: >> Of course I'm also amazed
> that so >> many idiots claim to follow Christ but keep putting down
> the Jewish >> folks.. I mean, do they not realize that Christ, the
> son of Mary, a >> Jewish woman, was thus himself Jewish?
> >
> > Ooooh, the frantic fundamentalists don't want to be reminded of
> > that!
>
> Hmmm... I've never encountered a "fundamentalist" who had a problem
> with the fact that Jesus was Jewish. You'd kind of have to never
> read the New Testament ... at all ... to miss that one.
They're not necessarily Fundamentalists, but there are Christians loony
enough to believe that "They're not really Jews." Most popular
variant, currently, is "They're really Khazars."
--
Dan Goodman
"I have always depended on the kindness of stranglers."
Tennessee Williams, A Streetcar Named Expire
Journal dsgood.dreamwidth.org (livejournal.com, insanejournal.com)
Lemmo
> There have been parodies of "Dawson's Christian" covering just about
> every religion -- but how about _no_ religion?
>
> Words: Gary McGath, Copyright 2010
> Music: Duane Elms, "Dawson's Christian"
> Copyright 2010 by Gary McGath. May not be published, electronically
> or in print, without the author's permission. May not be archived
> except for personal use.
>
> Richard Dawkins was the captain of the Atheist and crew,
> Leading many brilliant battles, and I fought them with him too.
> There was not a ship more rational of any you could name,
> And the crew of Richard Dawkins was the same.
>
> There's a ship was called the Christian, that they say just disappeared,
> And we've heard among the pirates that its ghost is widely feared,
> But who's going to trust the pirates? They're a superstitious lot,
> And reliable is one thing that they're not.
>
> There are stories of the Christian and of P. T. Barnum's Pride,
> There are stories of the Horseman and the Lady at his side,
> But the tale which stands to reason and the one I know is true,
> Is the tale of Richard Dawkins and his crew.
> Yes, the tale of Dawkins' Atheist and crew.
>
> We were keeping a patrol along the route to Rigel Two,
> Where some spacers had told stories we were sure could not be true,
> When some pirates tried to take us on and intercept our flight.
> Hey, I told you pirates are not very bright.
>
> We were sure that we could beat them, though they had us four to one,
> For we all were trained for fighting and we had a first-class gun,
> So we went to battle stations and began to raise our screen,
> When another ship appeared upon the scene.
>
> It was shooting at the pirates, as if coming to our aid,
> And the enemy veered wildly as if they were all afraid.
> Dawkins said, "It's just a decoy and a clever pirate ruse,
> A distraction which they think will make us lose."
>
> And the stranger's beams were redder than real beams we'd seen before,
> And the pirates faked retreat as if they wanted us no more.
> When they turned back to surprise us and to catch us all unwise,
> They found we were the ones with a surprise.
> They found we were the ones with a surprise.
>
> We just fired at the enemy, and we were not deceived,
> For our rescuer was something that no sane man should believe.
> Now we had the better armament and burned the pirate fleet
> And with well-aimed shots we brought them to defeat.
>
> Now instead of flying off, the fake ship then began to fade,
> That illusion which the pirates thought would help them win the raid.
> For the markings all said "Christian," and at last the trick we knew:
> 'Twas a fake of Jaime Dawson and his crew.
> Yes, a fake of Dawson's Christian and his crew.
>
> There are stories of the Christian and of P. T. Barnum's Pride,
> There are stories of the Horseman and the Lady at his side,
> But the tale which stands to reason and the one I know is true,
> Is the tale of Richard Dawkins and his crew.
> Yes, the tale of Dawkins' Atheist and crew.
>
> --
> Gary McGath http://www.mcgath.com
> Individual rights are an "abstract legal theory."
I really like this. I copied it for my personal singing use, and will
have to learn the tune, which I kind of know generally but not well
enough to sing. I may also have to write the agnostic version. In
which they're not sure if the strangers are really there or not, and
are defeated as they argue the finer points. It may contain the words
"wishy-washy" and "sitting on a fence." On the other hand, do I really
want to offend my agnostic friends?
Lemmo
> > Eyal Mozes <e...@cloud9.net> wrote:
>
> >>> There have been parodies of "Dawson's Christian" covering just about
> >>> every religion
> >> Really? I know the one about Judaism, but I've never heard of a
> >> Dawson's Christian parody about any other religion.
>
> > Well, I was exaggerating a bit. There's "Dawson's Mitzvah" by Gary
> > Ehrlich, and "Dawson's Pagan," I forget by whom. There's Lee Gold's
> > "Bunyan's Hero," which has more to do with Christianity than the
> > original song does, and lots of parodies which aren't religion-related.
>
> "Bunyan's Hero" is in Xeno #6, and is about the plot of PILGRIM'S
> PROGRESS, which I read as a neat piece of fantasy, though somewhat
> annoyed by the anti-Catholicism (which I left out of the song).
>
> --Lee
In that case, by all means, never read "Crux Ansata" by H.G. Wells.
Eyal Mozes
> They're not necessarily Fundamentalists, but there are Christians loony
> enough to believe that "They're not really Jews." Most popular
> variant, currently, is "They're really Khazars."
Huh? Are you saying you've seen Christians claim that Jesus was really
a Khazar? I'd be interested in any links or references to such
claims.
If I remember correctly, the Khazar nation was founded in the 7th
century A.D., and adopted Judaism as its state religion in the 8th
century. But we've now had academic seminars respectfully treat the
"multi-culturalist" claim that Aristotle plagiarized his ideas out of
the library at Alexandria; so I suppose claims that Jesus was a Khazar
should be treated with the same respect.
Lee Gold
I am willing to read fiction whose ideas annoy me *IF* they're well
written.
I should note that Bunyan's PILGRIM'S PROGRESS also had annoying
anti-Judaism, showing Moses as a guy who kept beating up poor Christian
to punish him for a sin and saying "I know not how to forgive." *sigh*
--Lee
Lee Gold
> On May 22, 8:46 am, "Dan Goodman" <dsg...@iphouse.com> wrote:
>> They're not necessarily Fundamentalists, but there are Christians loony
>> enough to believe that "They're not really Jews." Most popular
>> variant, currently, is "They're really Khazars."
>
> Huh? Are you saying you've seen Christians claim that Jesus was really
> a Khazar? I'd be interested in any links or references to such
> claims.
>
> If I remember correctly, the Khazar nation was founded in the 7th
> century A.D., and adopted Judaism as its state religion in the 8th
> century.
I researched the Khazars for a roleplaying game sourcebook on the
Vikings who went down through that territory to trade with Byzantium.
And some of Byzantium's Jewish merchants went up that way to trade with
the Rus and the Vikings. And some of the Jews settled with the Khazars,
particularly during times when Christian Byzantium wasn't being friendly
to Jews.
Judaism became the religion of the Khazars' ruling family, probably
because that meant they wouldn't seem to be siding either with Christian
Byzantium or with various Moslem regimes.
The Khazars were nomadic in the summer but lived in settled houses in
the winter. They had two major cities, one Jewish (where the ruling
family lived) and another, across the river, which was non-Jewish. Or
so the historians said (at least the ones I read back then). I wouldn't
term that a "state religion," but I see that a Wikipedia article writer
does.
--Lee
D.J.
<garym@_MYLASTNAME_.com> wrote:
>In article <4bf702f4$0$17587$d36...@news.calweb.com>,
> m...@web1.calweb.com (Mike Van Pelt) wrote:
>
>> In article
>> <84156577-718a-441c...@q36g2000prg.googlegroups.com>,
>> Leslie <lesli...@cox.net> wrote:
>> >> Of course I'm also amazed that so
>> >> many idiots claim to follow Christ but keep putting down the Jewish
>> >> folks.. I mean, do they not realize that Christ, the son of Mary, a
>> >> Jewish woman, was thus himself Jewish?
>> >
>> >Ooooh, the frantic fundamentalists don't want to be reminded of
>> >that!
>>
>> Hmmm... I've never encountered a "fundamentalist" who had a problem
>> with the fact that Jesus was Jewish. You'd kind of have to never
>> read the New Testament ... at all ... to miss that one.
>
>
>But I've noticed a certain trend in this discussion, and perhaps in
>fandom in general, to regard "anti-Catholicism" (in the sense of
>disliking the Catholic Church's doctrines or practices, not knee-jerk
>hostility to Catholics) as bad, and anti-fundamentalism (often including
>knee-jerk hostility) as OK. From my perspective of regarding all
>theistic religions as mistaken, this strikes me as an inconsistency.
My personal experience might bring some info to this.
I grew up in basically a very hard core Southern Baptist town. They
ran that town, along with the Klan. If you didn't belong to either or
both, you were nothing. I found out fairly recently, decades after I
was last there, they allowed a few Jews into the county, so they could
claim they weren't bigoted.The nearest Synagogue wasn't in that
county. The fundies in that town made it their business to check on
anyone not a member of their church. I was a member of that church.
But I certainly didn't get along with the fundies nor the Klan.
I have had many fewer problems from Catholics. One guy in public high
school took umbrage at my saying I knew the Inquisition was wrong and
evil. He was going to try and get me excommunicated. I said I doubt
that would work since I was a Protestant. He yelled at me for several
minutes and never talked to me again. Which was fine by me. I found
out later he got chewed out by his priest for being stupid.
In my lifetime, and the places I have lived, the majority of the
problems I have had due to religious differences with others come to
around 90 percent from fundies.
D.J.
wrote:
>Mike Van Pelt wrote:
>
>> In article
>> <84156577-718a-441c...@q36g2000prg.googlegroups.com>,
>> Leslie <lesli...@cox.net> wrote: >> Of course I'm also amazed
>> that so >> many idiots claim to follow Christ but keep putting down
>> the Jewish >> folks.. I mean, do they not realize that Christ, the
>> son of Mary, a >> Jewish woman, was thus himself Jewish?
>> >
>> > Ooooh, the frantic fundamentalists don't want to be reminded of
>> > that!
>>
>> Hmmm... I've never encountered a "fundamentalist" who had a problem
>> with the fact that Jesus was Jewish. You'd kind of have to never
>> read the New Testament ... at all ... to miss that one.
>
>They're not necessarily Fundamentalists, but there are Christians loony
>enough to believe that "They're not really Jews." Most popular
>variant, currently, is "They're really Khazars."
Several fundies, about 5 years ago, told me that Jesus wasn't Jewish.
They knew that Christianity didn't exist until he had risen after the
crucifixtion, but he wasn't Jewish. I pointed it kinda mentions that
in the Bible. Well, they claim it was mistranslated, and their Bible
didn't say that.
I have avoided them since. I have no skills in talking to crazies.
Kip Williams
> Back in my Fido-Net days I had an automatic tag line picker/swiper,
> (Swipimg tag lines was a lot of fun back then)
>
> One of the tag lines was: Fundamentalists: The rear end of most any
> religion.
I used to call them Fundamentists.
Kip W
Dan Goodman
> On May 22, 8:46�am, "Dan Goodman" <dsg...@iphouse.com> wrote:
> > They're not necessarily Fundamentalists, but there are Christians
> > loony enough to believe that "They're not really Jews." �Most
> > popular variant, currently, is "They're really Khazars."
>
> Huh? Are you saying you've seen Christians claim that Jesus was really
> a Khazar? I'd be interested in any links or references to such
> claims.
No -- that current Jews are Khazars, unlike Jesus.
I don't know how the kooks who believe Jews are descendants of Eve and
the Snake work around Jesus being Jewish.
>
> If I remember correctly, the Khazar nation was founded in the 7th
> century A.D., and adopted Judaism as its state religion in the 8th
> century. But we've now had academic seminars respectfully treat the
> "multi-culturalist" claim that Aristotle plagiarized his ideas out of
> the library at Alexandria; so I suppose claims that Jesus was a Khazar
> should be treated with the same respect.
--
Dan Goodman
> I really like this. I copied it for my personal singing use, and will
> have to learn the tune, which I kind of know generally but not well
> enough to sing. I may also have to write the agnostic version. In
> which they're not sure if the strangers are really there or not, and
> are defeated as they argue the finer points. It may contain the words
> "wishy-washy" and "sitting on a fence." On the other hand, do I really
> want to offend my agnostic friends?
Hey, everyone should have equal opportunity to have their beliefs
mocked in filks!
Kip Williams
> On the other hand, do I really
> want to offend my agnostic friends?
Gee, I dunno.
Kip W
Leslie
>
> Judaism became the religion of the Khazars' ruling family, probably
> because that meant they wouldn't seem to be siding either with Christian
> Byzantium or with various Moslem regimes.
>
decided, for political reasons, to take up with one of the "new"
religions, but couldn't decide on which one, so he invited preachers
from all three to come talk to him. After each one had said their
piece, the king turned to each and asked: "What does your religion
*forbid*?" "Sex outside of marriage, and tolerating anyone else's
gods," said the Christian. "Pork and alcohol," said the Moslem.
"Pork and working on Saturday," said the Jew. The king of the Khazars
decided on Judaism because his folk didn't have any pigs, but loved
their booze -- not to mention sex -- and he knew he'd have to deal
with folks from other religions.
And I suppose that being Jewish, and therefore keeping the Moslems and
the Christians balanced, didn't hurt.
--Leslie <;)))><
Leslie
>
> In my lifetime, and the places I have lived, the majority of the
> problems I have had due to religious differences with others come to
> around 90 percent from fundies.
>
I've got a song about that.
(Chorus)
Bigots all! Bigots all!
Launch them off the lampposts everywhere.
Christifundies, Judifundies, Moslefundies, Bhuddifundies:
I don't f*cking care.
--Leslie <;)))><
D.J.
<garym@_MYLASTNAME_.com> wrote:
>In article <o0qfv554r1s30hs3p...@4ax.com>,
> D.J. <jollyc...@cableone.net> wrote:
>
>
>> My personal experience might bring some info to this.
>>
>> I grew up in basically a very hard core Southern Baptist town. They
>> ran that town, along with the Klan. If you didn't belong to either or
>> both, you were nothing. I found out fairly recently, decades after I
>> was last there, they allowed a few Jews into the county, so they could
>> claim they weren't bigoted.The nearest Synagogue wasn't in that
>> county. The fundies in that town made it their business to check on
>> anyone not a member of their church. I was a member of that church.
>> But I certainly didn't get along with the fundies nor the Klan.
>
>fundamentalist one as such. In the sixties there was a deep schism
>between Northern and Southern baptists over racial issues. This is best
>known with respect to black people, but might also have applied to
>treatment of Jews.
The events I related, didn't take place in the South, nor the North,
but the SouthWest.
>On a historical scale, things have been a bit different. With rare
>exceptions caused by fanatics, people in the USA haven't experienced the
>kind of punishment for "wrong" religious beliefs that was common in
>Europe for centuries. John Bunyan was imprisoned by a Protestant
>government for "unlicensed preaching." and he was born just half a
>century after the Catholic massacre of the Huguenots.
Cajuns were murdered back in the 1800s for being Cajuns. French
speaking Catholics.
As for the area in Texas where I grew up, no Texas is not in the South
folks, had no Catholic Churches. Only Protestant Churches. Fairly
recently a non-protestant Church has been built there.
One screwball I knew way back when told me all sorts of things about
Catholics and Jews, none of which made any sense to me. I pointed out
that until Protestantism came along the only major Christian Church
around was Catholic, he almost physically attacked me. But he decided
since I was poor I must have been brainwashed by some nefarious force,
like Jews and Catholics, and he proceeded to preach at me to 'save
me'. I told him take his hate filled crap and shove it.
Such people like him still exist.
>In politics, too, it's important to distinguish between attacking ideas
>and attacking segments of the population. A well-known song (finally
>getting somewhat back to the newsgroup topic) has the lines: "People
>voting Republican / Give them a boot to the head." However much I blast
>the Republican leadership, I find those lines very offensive.
Until Republicans stop listening to Limbaugh and those twits on Fuax
News, they deserve a boot to the head.
Lee Gold
> On May 22, 7:12 am, Lee Gold <lee.g...@ca.rr.com> wrote:
>> Judaism became the religion of the Khazars' ruling family, probably
>> because that meant they wouldn't seem to be siding either with Christian
>> Byzantium or with various Moslem regimes.
>>
> Heheheheh. The story I heard was that the king of the Khazars
> decided, for political reasons, to take up with one of the "new"
> religions, but couldn't decide on which one, so he invited preachers
> from all three to come talk to him. After each one had said their
> piece, the king turned to each and asked: "What does your religion
> *forbid*?" "Sex outside of marriage, and tolerating anyone else's
> gods," said the Christian. "Pork and alcohol," said the Moslem.
> "Pork and working on Saturday," said the Jew. The king of the Khazars
> decided on Judaism because his folk didn't have any pigs, but loved
> their booze -- not to mention sex -- and he knew he'd have to deal
> with folks from other religions.
I heard the story that the Kkhazar Khan asked, "If I don't convert to
your religion, what's your second choice."
The Moslem said "Judaism, because you shouldn't believe that God has a
son."
The Christian said, "Judaism, because Jesus was a Jew."
The Jew said, "It doesn't matter as long as you don't worship idols."
So the Khan went for Judaism as the consensus second choice.
--Lee
Kip Williams
>> ran that town, along with the Klan. If you didn't belong to either or
>> both, you were nothing. I found out fairly recently, decades after I
>> was last there, they allowed a few Jews into the county, so they could
>> claim they weren't bigoted.The nearest Synagogue wasn't in that
>> county. The fundies in that town made it their business to check on
>> anyone not a member of their church. I was a member of that church.
>> But I certainly didn't get along with the fundies nor the Klan.
>
> fundamentalist one as such. In the sixties there was a deep schism
> between Northern and Southern baptists over racial issues. This is best
> known with respect to black people, but might also have applied to
> treatment of Jews.
There's a book by Stella Suberman called _The Jew Store_, which is a
memoir of the youngest daughter in a Jewish family in a southern town. I
believe I must have heard the author interviewed (probably on NPR) about
it, mentioning that a lot of Southern towns would have this one Jewish
family that ran a store. I thought back to Statesboro and remembered the
one there. It was a matter of convenience, apparently, and not of
brotherhood.
When we lived there in the early 80s, there still weren't a lot of
jewish folk in town. My art teacher was one (I believe he was the one
who got the college to host a festival of the Jewish spirit that
included an art exhibition with a lot of famous names and a play about
immigrants in which I played a couple of small parts) and my wife worked
with another, but I was enlisted once to make up a minyan for some
reason that I don't remember any more. I wonder if that makes me an
honorary... nah.
Kip W
Eyal Mozes
> I told him take his hate filled crap and shove it.
> ...
> Until Republicans stop listening to Limbaugh and those twits on Fuax
> News, they deserve a boot to the head.
And you really didn't notice the irony of making both the above
statements in the same post?
Michael Liebmann
about the anti-Jewish sentiment in the Navy. The only day for religious
services was Sunday. The powers that be didn't want to be bothered with
things Jewish. When I pointed out that not everyone prays on Sunday (and it
wasn't just the Jews), they gave me lip and attitude. It wasn't that they
were ignorant of other faiths, it's that they WANTED TO BE IGNORANT OF OTHER
FAITHS! Explaining this to a chaplain helped, but not much. In the 16
weeks I was there, I was permitted to go to religious services on the
Sabbath only twice. And they had problems with me going on-base to Friday
night services as well (when they happened - it just so happened they had a
class of chaplains going through chaplain school at the time, and there were
3 rabbis as part of the class).
In Athens, Georgia, where I went after becoming an officer, the upper
echelon showed their continued desire to remain ignorant of Jewish holidays,
holy days and customs, though I was able to show some of my fellow students
(and some of my instructors) that being Jewish wasn't a bad thing, that it
was just something they weren't used to.
In Mississippi, where I was stationed for 2.5 years, the base chaplain (a
Roman Catholic priest) basically didn't want to know anything about Jews on
base, and he sat on my application to be the base's Jewish lay leader for
six months once I had put it in. Meridian, which is where the base was
located, was a town of 40,000 people, 200 churches, and two synagogues.
Again, I found the anti-Jewish attitude prevalent, not just by the chaplain,
but I found the desire to remain ignorant to be rampant among the naval
aviators. The best example of this was the one morning in the Monday
Morning Ready Room Meeting, where the officers (either staff or student - I
was in an aviation training squadron) would get the information being passed
out by command. The squadron commander, a man from El Paso, was talking
about how the Pilot Training Rate was being increased by the Chief of Naval
Air Training at a meeting the commander had just returned from in Texas, but
he explained that instead of having to produce 45 students who would then go
up to advanced flight training, he "Jewed them down" to 36. At that point,
every officer in the ready room looked at me (I was the only Jew in the
squadron, and one of maybe 6 on a base with a population of 3000). The
commander said, "Michael, I get the feeling we're going to have a talk after
this." I took it calmly and indicated assent, then when meeting with him I
explained that I understood what he meant, what he had tried to say, and
that it was a cultural more where he grew up to do that sort of thing. I
even offered to bring him some information which would explain why I had
remained calm.
Coming up to the 21st century, there have been enough problems at the Air
Force Academy where the Christian cadets and faculty have been anti-everyone
else to a major degree. The son of an Academy graduate found Jew-hatred was
on the rise in Colorado Springs (where the Academy is located) and the
father went ballistic and went public with it. What came out afterwards is
that there's a movement afoot by certain so-called Christian groups to turn
the military into their version of a Christian bastion with no other faiths
allowed. This has also showed up at the Pentagon where certain so-called
Christian groups are doing the same thing, trying to infiltrate their
version of their faith (and, unfortunately, succeeding) into the highest
levels of the military.
I could go on, but we've veered enough off-topic. Sorry.
Gary McGath
D.J. <jollyc...@cableone.net> wrote:
> Until Republicans stop listening to Limbaugh and those twits on Fuax
> News, they deserve a boot to the head.
The largest audience estimate I've seen for Limbaugh is 30 million;
reliable estimates are lower.
The number of registered Republican voters in the United States is
several times that top estimate.
You are making untrue blanket statements about a large segment of the
population and advocating violence against them. That is contemptible.
Sandy Tyra
> In article<i8biv59bt8vddvb68...@4ax.com>,
> D.J.<jollyc...@cableone.net> wrote:
>
>> Until Republicans stop listening to Limbaugh and those twits on Fuax
>> News, they deserve a boot to the head.
>
> The largest audience estimate I've seen for Limbaugh is 30 million;
> reliable estimates are lower.
>
> The number of registered Republican voters in the United States is
> several times that top estimate.
>
> You are making untrue blanket statements about a large segment of the
> population and advocating violence against them. That is contemptible.
>
I agree, Gary. And I want to thank you and Eyal for taking the stand
that you have.
Sandy
D.J.
wrote:
The irony is, the Repuiblicans, and I don't belong to any political
party, are following nut jobs. One of my uncles, who was in Patton's
Third Army during WW2, told me sometimes the only way to get a jerks
attention is to hit him upside the head.
The Republican Party is eating itself. And to think that at one time
they were anti-slavery.
D.J.
<garym@_MYLASTNAME_.com> wrote:
>In article <i8biv59bt8vddvb68...@4ax.com>,
> D.J. <jollyc...@cableone.net> wrote:
>
>> Until Republicans stop listening to Limbaugh and those twits on Fuax
>> News, they deserve a boot to the head.
>
>The largest audience estimate I've seen for Limbaugh is 30 million;
>reliable estimates are lower.
>
>The number of registered Republican voters in the United States is
>several times that top estimate.
>
>You are making untrue blanket statements about a large segment of the
>population and advocating violence against them. That is contemptible.
Yup, very contemptible. And so are the Republicans.
Me, I wont march anyone off to prison.
If you trust the Republicans, I got some swamp land on MArs I'll sell
you.
D.J.
wrote:
Stand against what ? Newsgroup rhetoric ?
The Republicans are bowing to fringe elements. I don't have to like
that, no matter what anyone else says.
Karen Rodgers
wrote:
>> You are making untrue blanket statements about a large segment of the
>> population and advocating violence against them. That is contemptible.
>>
>
>I agree, Gary. And I want to thank you and Eyal for taking the stand
>that you have.
The biggest problem is that Republicans like you are being outshouted
in the fray. And it's easy to throw a blanket "nutball" label on
everyone in the party, dead, flat, wrong, but very easy. The nutballs
get all the publicity, as do the nutballs of fandom. (How many
conventions do we see put on the news with the anchor interviewing the
tinfoil hat wearing/Trek uniformed lunatic? Too many to count). I'm
sure you see a lot cringe worthy antics in your party right now.
I would suggest that everyone steps back and take a deep breath. We
do not need to be attacking our own.
Karen R.
"Any plan vhere hyu lose hyu hat iz a BAD PLAN." - J�gerkin Philosophy
Gary McGath
D.J. <jollyc...@cableone.net> wrote:
> On Sun, 23 May 2010 12:39:44 -0400, Gary McGath
> <garym@_MYLASTNAME_.com> wrote:
> >In article <i8biv59bt8vddvb68...@4ax.com>,
> > D.J. <jollyc...@cableone.net> wrote:
> >
> >> Until Republicans stop listening to Limbaugh and those twits on Fuax
> >> News, they deserve a boot to the head.
> >
> >The largest audience estimate I've seen for Limbaugh is 30 million;
> >reliable estimates are lower.
> >
> >The number of registered Republican voters in the United States is
> >several times that top estimate.
> >
> >You are making untrue blanket statements about a large segment of the
> >population and advocating violence against them. That is contemptible.
>
> Yup, very contemptible. And so are the Republicans.
>
> Me, I wont march anyone off to prison.
>
> If you trust the Republicans, I got some swamp land on MArs I'll sell
> you.
>
> JimP.
Since you agree what you're doing is contemptible, there's nothing more
to say but ...
* plonk *
D.J.
Well, I'm not attacking anyone here, unless they feel the Republican
fringe like Limbaugh represents them. I wouldn't want him to represent
me under any circumstances.
If anyone here is an average Republican, I am most assuredly not
attacking them.
Of course, I'm one of those stupid people who cannot comprehend how
any minority can feel the Republicans represent them. Certainly not
based on the Republican history of actions in the 20th and 21st
centuries. Uhm, Gregorian calendars.
D.J.
<garym@_MYLASTNAME_.com> wrote:
>In article <buqiv5tsgsmf56tmd...@4ax.com>,
> D.J. <jollyc...@cableone.net> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 23 May 2010 12:39:44 -0400, Gary McGath
>> <garym@_MYLASTNAME_.com> wrote:
>> >In article <i8biv59bt8vddvb68...@4ax.com>,
>> > D.J. <jollyc...@cableone.net> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Until Republicans stop listening to Limbaugh and those twits on Fuax
>> >> News, they deserve a boot to the head.
>> >
>> >The largest audience estimate I've seen for Limbaugh is 30 million;
>> >reliable estimates are lower.
>> >
>> >The number of registered Republican voters in the United States is
>> >several times that top estimate.
>> >
>> >You are making untrue blanket statements about a large segment of the
>> >population and advocating violence against them. That is contemptible.
>>
>> Yup, very contemptible. And so are the Republicans.
>>
>> Me, I wont march anyone off to prison.
>>
>> If you trust the Republicans, I got some swamp land on MArs I'll sell
>> you.
>>
>> JimP.
>
>Since you agree what you're doing is contemptible, there's nothing more
>to say but ...
>
>* plonk *
If you believe Rush Limbaugh represents you then by all means, ignore
me. I wouldn't blame you in the slgihtest.
Lee Gold
>
> Of course, I'm one of those stupid people who cannot comprehend how
> any minority can feel the Republicans represent them. Certainly not
> based on the Republican history of actions in the 20th and 21st
> centuries. Uhm, Gregorian calendars.
As I grew up in California in the 1950s, I was very proud of Republicans
like Governor (and later Supreme Court Justice) Earl Warren. I also
read about and admired Republican President Theodore Roosevelt and
Robert La Follette, Sr. I didn't agree with Robert Taft (the one who
died in 1953) or Barry Goldwater on a lot of issues, but they were still
honorable and sensible people. And I could name a lot of other 20th
century and 21st century Republicans I have considered to be honorable
and sensible.
--Lee
Kay Shapero
@cableone.net says...
it's you who think Limbaugh represents Gary. Having been around this ng
a while, I don't think so. And he certainly doesn't seem to think so.
And the above quote bears him out.
I think that's enough prose discussion anyway - if you want to continue
the flamewar why not follow rmf tradition and cast it in rhyme?
--
Kay Shapero
FAQ: http://www.kayshapero.net/filkfaq.htm
address munged, email me at kay at domain name
http://www.kayshapero.net
Eyal Mozes
<n...@a.valid.address.for.newsgroups> wrote:
> On Sun, 23 May 2010 09:58:47 -0700, Sandy Tyra <sa...@planet-tyra.com>
> wrote:
> The biggest problem is that Republicans like you are being outshouted
> sure you see a lot cringe worthy antics in your party right now.
Karen, can you provide a link to any songs containing lines similar to
"People voting Democrat / Give them a boot to the head"? Can you point
to any forum where somebody made a statement similar to:
> Until Democrats stop listening to Paul Krugman and those twits on ABC
> News, they deserve a boot to the head.
If you find any such songs or statements, then I'd completely agree,
any reasonable Republican would regard such antics as cringe-worthy.
(And if the person who made these statements had the hypocricy to
write, just a few paragraphs earlier, "I told him take his hate filled
crap and shove it", that would make it even more cringe-worthy).
So far, however, I haven't encountered any such songs or statements
anywhere. And even if they're out there, they have so far not
infringed on r.m.f. Our concern here is with the unpleasantness on
this thread, which is the result of this type of attitude coming from
a Democrat.
Applied in that direction, I'd completely agree with your statements.
It is certainly true that any reasonable Democrat would regard D.J.'s
antics (and those of the writers of "Boot to the Head") as cringe-
worthy. And it is also true that one of the big problems such people
create is that reasonable Democrats are being outshouted in the fray.
> I would suggest that everyone steps back and take a deep breath. We
> do not need to be attacking our own.
If your suggestion was directed to D.J., then I'm afraid it's not
going to do any good. My experience with people like him is that
however many deep breaths they take, they remain as hateful and as
rude as they've ever been. If he does take some deep breaths and then
decides to apologize and acknowledge how wrong he has been, I'd of
course welcome it, and I hope that so would Gary and Sandy; but I also
would be extremely surprised. Until and unless he does, the only
reasonable suggestion I can make is for everyone else is to ignore
D.J.'s posts in the future.
Karen Rodgers
wrote:
>On May 23, 3:11 pm, Karen Rodgers
><n...@a.valid.address.for.newsgroups> wrote:
>> On Sun, 23 May 2010 09:58:47 -0700, Sandy Tyra <sa...@planet-tyra.com>
>> wrote:
>> The biggest problem is that Republicans like you are being outshouted
>> in the fray. ... I'm
>> sure you see a lot cringe worthy antics in your party right now.
>
>Karen, can you provide a link to any songs containing lines similar to
>"People voting Democrat / Give them a boot to the head"? Can you point
>to any forum where somebody made a statement similar to:
>
>> Until Democrats stop listening to Paul Krugman and those twits on ABC
>> News, they deserve a boot to the head.
>If you find any such songs or statements, then I'd completely agree,
>any reasonable Republican would regard such antics as cringe-worthy.
I haven't heard any song recommending that Republicans all need a boot
to the head. Nor one maligning Democrats in similiar fashion. But I
don't spend a lot of time watching tv, either. When I do, I tend to
watch it on my computer so I don't have to listen to the political ads
trying to scare me into voting one way or another in a couple of
weeks. There is far too much screaming being done by both sides of
the fence for my taste.
I do spend a fair amount of time listening to those "radical lefties"
at NPR, though. ;-)
>(And if the person who made these statements had the hypocricy to
>write, just a few paragraphs earlier, "I told him take his hate filled
>crap and shove it", that would make it even more cringe-worthy).
>
>So far, however, I haven't encountered any such songs or statements
>anywhere. And even if they're out there, they have so far not
>infringed on r.m.f. Our concern here is with the unpleasantness on
>this thread, which is the result of this type of attitude coming from
>a Democrat.
Yeah, I don't know what why suddenly that crap is leaping out of the
woodwork.
>Applied in that direction, I'd completely agree with your statements.
>It is certainly true that any reasonable Democrat would regard D.J.'s
>antics (and those of the writers of "Boot to the Head") as cringe-
>worthy. And it is also true that one of the big problems such people
>create is that reasonable Democrats are being outshouted in the fray.
Normally here I find the reasonable people outshout the fringe
elements. Would that that would happen in the wider world of American
politics.
>> I would suggest that everyone steps back and take a deep breath. We
>> do not need to be attacking our own.
>
>If your suggestion was directed to D.J., then I'm afraid it's not
>going to do any good. My experience with people like him is that
>however many deep breaths they take, they remain as hateful and as
>rude as they've ever been. If he does take some deep breaths and then
>decides to apologize and acknowledge how wrong he has been, I'd of
>course welcome it, and I hope that so would Gary and Sandy; but I also
>would be extremely surprised. Until and unless he does, the only
>reasonable suggestion I can make is for everyone else is to ignore
>D.J.'s posts in the future.
I was aiming at tempers flaring in general (and one temper in
particular), trying to pour oil on troubled waters, rather than
gasoline. (I know, unfortunate metaphor, given the situation in the
Gulf of Mexico.) I can see this devolving into a shouting match in
about a heartbeat. Frankly, nobody needs that.
As for exile to the bozo bin, it depends entirely on continued
unreasonable behavior. But I'm inclined to agree.
Dan Goodman
> Normally here I find the reasonable people outshout the fringe
> elements. Would that that would happen in the wider world of American
> politics.
Unfortunately, the fringe elements ARE outshouted by the relatively
reasonable people in politics....
If you like mainstream political discussion or landfills, don't watch
them being made.
Karen Rodgers
wrote:
>
>If you believe Rush Limbaugh represents you then by all means, ignore
>me. I wouldn't blame you in the slgihtest.
>
Gary is a very, very intelligent guy, and all around decent human
being. You are rapidly showing us that you aren't. Which is sad, as
you've been a lot more even keeled than this.
I don't get it, did a Republican pee in your cereal? Please stop
painting every conservative here with a crap brush. I know and deeply
respect people you're dumping on. And if you keep it up, you'll be in
my killfile, too.
P.F. Bruns
> Karen Rodgers wrote:
>
>> Normally here I find the reasonable people outshout the fringe
>> elements. Would that that would happen in the wider world of American
>> politics.
>
> Unfortunately, the fringe elements ARE outshouted by the relatively
> reasonable people in politics....
>
> If you like mainstream political discussion or landfills, don't watch
> them being made.
>
I've always heard it as "If you respect the law and love sausage, never
watch either being made," but that's just me.
Personally, I think rational argument and final decisions are two
separate discuss---wait, that came out wrong. What I mean is that the
need for rational argument and the possibility of sensible final
decisions are separate, though not mutually exclusive processes. We can
have reasonable and unreasonable arguments that lead to sensible or
ridiculous decisions (and multiple combinations thereof).
Best,
Perry
Working on a superhero filk
Daniel R. Reitman
<sff...@gmail.com> wrote:
>When I was an officer candidate in Newport, RI, I found out very quickly
>about the anti-Jewish sentiment in the Navy. The only day for religious
>services was Sunday. The powers that be didn't want to be bothered with
>things Jewish. When I pointed out that not everyone prays on Sunday (and it
>wasn't just the Jews), they gave me lip and attitude. It wasn't that they
>were ignorant of other faiths, it's that they WANTED TO BE IGNORANT OF OTHER
>FAITHS! Explaining this to a chaplain helped, but not much. In the 16
>weeks I was there, I was permitted to go to religious services on the
>Sabbath only twice. And they had problems with me going on-base to Friday
>night services as well (when they happened - it just so happened they had a
>class of chaplains going through chaplain school at the time, and there were
>3 rabbis as part of the class).
>. . . .
Don't forget that this is a country in which the Supreme Court found
it constitutional to prohibit an Air Force officer from wearing a
yarmulke.
Dan, ad nauseam
Mark Horning
> The Republicans are bowing to fringe elements. I don't have to like
> that, no matter what anyone else says.
>
> JimP.
> --
The Republican party has for many decades been a coalition of three
groups who really don't like each other:
The Christian Conservatives, the Fiscal Conservatives, and the Defense
Hawks. Working together is what got Regan elected. They threw the
Fiscal conservatives to the curb during the Bush years and currently
the Christian groups are being sidelined by the Fiscal folks.
So I can't really agree that the fringe is taking over the GOP, more
like the religious fringe is loosing power and the Fiscal/Libertarian
fringe is gaining. (The Tea Party movement is all about Fiscal
Responsibility, the #1 item on their agenda is a balanced budget.
They hate Bush too, just for different reasons than everyone else)
On the other side of the isle, the Democrats let their fringe elements
take over a long time ago. Thus the Democrats nominate extremely far
left folks like Obama instead of moderate folks like say Governor
Schweitzer.
Mark Horning
P.F. Bruns
I must respectfully disagree with the idea that Obama is far left. He
does favor increased social programs, but he's also very strongly
pro-business, pro-RIAA, pro-PATRIOT Act, pro-defense (just not as much
as the far right Republicans)...he's center-right. This entire country
has drifted so far right in my view that Obama is only considered
left-wing because he's slightly to the left of Nixon--maybe Goldwater on
a good day.
For that matter, Carter was far more hawkish than the media made him out
to be (a former U.S. Navy Commander, he prioritized military enlisted
pay and benefits during peacetime rather than the Next Big Weapon, and
still outspent some of his loyal opposition to the right on cruisers and
fighter aircraft).
The Democratic Party (and for the record, I am a Republican; I changed
over in 2000 specifically to vote for McCain in the Florida Republican
Primary; while a futile gesture, as McCain had conceded by then, it was
a gesture I shared with 25 percent of Florida Republicans) has no more
been taken over by its fringe than the CEOs of BP and Transocean have
rolled up their pant legs and waded into the Gulf of Mexico to clean up
their mess.
Sorry, but I just had to get that out.
Respectfully,
Perry
Dan Goodman
> On 5/23/2010 11:06 PM, Dan Goodman wrote:
> > Karen Rodgers wrote:
> >
> > > Normally here I find the reasonable people outshout the fringe
> > > elements. Would that that would happen in the wider world of
> > > American politics.
> >
> > Unfortunately, the fringe elements ARE outshouted by the relatively
> > reasonable people in politics....
> >
> > If you like mainstream political discussion or landfills, don't
> > watch them being made.
> >
>
> I've always heard it as "If you respect the law and love sausage,
> never watch either being made," but that's just me.
Mine was a takeoff on that.
> Personally, I think rational argument and final decisions are two
> separate discuss---wait, that came out wrong. What I mean is that
> the need for rational argument and the possibility of sensible final
> decisions are separate, though not mutually exclusive processes. We
> can have reasonable and unreasonable arguments that lead to sensible
> or ridiculous decisions (and multiple combinations thereof).
>
> Best,
> Perry
> Working on a superhero filk
How do you think undocumented immigrants from Krypton should be treated?
P.F. Bruns
>> Working on a superhero filk
>
> How do you think undocumented immigrants from Krypton should be treated?
Funny you should ask: that's what I'll be exploring in the song, if all
goes well.
Best,
Perry
Jeff Urs
> I think that's enough prose discussion anyway - if you want to continue
> the flamewar why not follow rmf tradition and cast it in rhyme?
(ttto "Two Little Boys")
Two earnest fen were two earnest men --
Each had a hobby horse.
Daily they'd post, and, for the most,
Followed the topic's course.
One fannish chap then had a mishap,
Gave to his horse its head,
Galloped away, to much dismay,
Till his fan fellows said,
"Oh, for filk's sake will you stop trying
To ensure the last post's from you;
Look, that brush you're so blithely plying
Is as broad as a state or two.
In a week when this thread is over
And once more we're all fannish friends,
How we'd like it if you'd remember
To please not do it again."
--
Jeff
Mark Horning
> for the record, I am a Republican; I changed
> over in 2000 specifically to vote for McCain in the Florida Republican
> Primary;
For the record, I changed over to Republican in order to vote for Ron
Paul in the Arizona Primary.
Again futile, since McCain loosing the AZ primary simply was not going
to happen.
Mark
D.J.
That is alot of nonsense aimed at me. Especially since i did none of
it.
>I was aiming at tempers flaring in general (and one temper in
>particular), trying to pour oil on troubled waters, rather than
>gasoline. (I know, unfortunate metaphor, given the situation in the
>Gulf of Mexico.) I can see this devolving into a shouting match in
>about a heartbeat. Frankly, nobody needs that.
>
>As for exile to the bozo bin, it depends entirely on continued
>unreasonable behavior. But I'm inclined to agree.
My temper didn't flare in the slightest. I didn't take any deep
breaths. I'm not a Democrat.
The tempers flaring around here I see are yours.
D.J.
wrote:
I had no idea Gary was a Republican.
Of course, he could have simply stated Limbaugh doesn't represent him.
That would have actually imparted information, rather than posting
what he did post.
>I think that's enough prose discussion anyway - if you want to continue
>the flamewar why not follow rmf tradition and cast it in rhyme?
I didn't flame anyone, but i have certainly been flamed by several
people who claim they are just correcting me.
D.J.
<n...@a.valid.address.for.newsgroups> wrote:
>On Sun, 23 May 2010 16:27:38 -0500, D.J. <jollyc...@cableone.net>
>wrote:
>
>>
>>If you believe Rush Limbaugh represents you then by all means, ignore
>>me. I wouldn't blame you in the slgihtest.
>>
>Gary is a very, very intelligent guy, and all around decent human
>being. You are rapidly showing us that you aren't. Which is sad, as
>you've been a lot more even keeled than this.
>
>I don't get it, did a Republican pee in your cereal? Please stop
>painting every conservative here with a crap brush. I know and deeply
>respect people you're dumping on. And if you keep it up, you'll be in
>my killfile, too.
What I actually said above was nothing like your slap in my face
response.
I haven't taken umbrage here, but I am certainly being blasted for
expressing my opinion.
John Davis
> But I've noticed a certain trend in this discussion, and perhaps in
> fandom in general, to regard "anti-Catholicism" (in the sense of
> disliking the Catholic Church's doctrines or practices, not knee-jerk
> hostility to Catholics) as bad, and anti-fundamentalism (often including
> knee-jerk hostility) as OK. From my perspective of regarding all
> theistic religions as mistaken, this strikes me as an inconsistency.
>
I would not say I've seen anti Catholicism here (Save for references to
it in a work talked about) but rather Anti-Fundamentalism. And many
religions have their fundaments as it were. In fact for those who do not
know there are 3 brands of Christianity
Catholic
Protestant
and "Bible Christians"
What you ask, is the defining difference?
Well. roughly 2000 years ago Christ said to Simon "Though art Peter and
Upon this rock I build my church"
That church, or as close to it as you can get, today is the Catholic Church.
Some years later someone tacked a list of Griviences up on the door of
the local parish.. That is he Protested, and even though he cried "I am
not the way Do not follow me" people did, They and others like them who
have had other grivences, and who formed "Splinter" religions (or
branched off if you like) are called Protestants.
Then some dude or dudette picked up a Good Book and read it and decided
"Hey, there's something to this". Usually they pick up the KJV not the
Catholic version but they went out and pitched a tent and rented some
chairs and a table and founded their own church.. This is "Bible
Christian" It's also, often, Fundementalist by the way,
Recall back in the 60's and 70's when folks were saying "GOD IS DEAD"..
Took me many years to understand them (Thank you Scott Hann) You see,
These last group.. They preach that every word God has said or ever will
say is contained in Holy Scripture (The Bible) and thus they preach that
for the last 2000 years (Even more roughly) God has been sitting there
on his royal heavenly throne and not uttered so much as a PEEP.. And
that would indicate God Is Dead.
By the way... That is NOT what I belive.. I believe in a Living God.
John Davis
> I have had many fewer problems from Catholics. One guy in public high
> school took umbrage at my saying I knew the Inquisition was wrong and
> evil. He was going to try and get me excommunicated. I said I doubt
> that would work since I was a Protestant. He yelled at me for several
> minutes and never talked to me again. Which was fine by me. I found
> out later he got chewed out by his priest for being stupid.
Jim.. Speaking strictly as a Catholic I would have to say ... You were
right.
Speaking a bit more modern.
The Islamic faith today is where the Catholic Church was then...
Christ said "Beware the false prophet"
Mohammad: "Beware the evil one for he will come to you in many guises
even that of a holy man"
And in both cases... That is exactly what happened... The Catholic
church came to realize that long before either of us were born, and long
before that idiot who berated you was born.. If he'd paid attention in
class (Religous Education) He'd have know that. but alas, Not many pay
attention in class these days.
I can only hope the Islamic faith re-assertes itself on those who have
been mis-lead as well.. For the faith is a peacful one and Mohammad has
got to be rather upset with what the mislead folks are doing in his name.
John Davis
> On May 22, 7:33 am, D.J.<jollycampe...@cableone.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> In my lifetime, and the places I have lived, the majority of the
>> problems I have had due to religious differences with others come to
>> around 90 percent from fundies.
>>
> I've got a song about that.
>
> (Chorus)
> Bigots all! Bigots all!
> Launch them off the lampposts everywhere.
> Christifundies, Judifundies, Moslefundies, Bhuddifundies:
> I don't f*cking care.
>
>
> --Leslie<;)))><
Now Leslie... That's not very nice.
Want to borrow my ladder so you can hoist 'em up to the top of the lamppost?
(It might not be nice... but ... Well... Might be a good idea)
John Davis
> On Sun, 23 May 2010 07:53:32 -0700 (PDT), Eyal Mozes<ey...@cloud9.net>
> wrote:
>> On May 23, 9:37 am, D.J.<jollycampe...@cableone.net> wrote:
>>
>>> I told him take his hate filled crap and shove it.
>>> ...
>>> Until Republicans stop listening to Limbaugh and those twits on Fuax
>>> News, they deserve a boot to the head.
>>
>> statements in the same post?
>
> The irony is, the Repuiblicans, and I don't belong to any political
> party, are following nut jobs. One of my uncles, who was in Patton's
> Third Army during WW2, told me sometimes the only way to get a jerks
> attention is to hit him upside the head.
>
> The Republican Party is eating itself. And to think that at one time
> they were anti-slavery.
>
> JimP.
Actually Jim, I'd have to say it's party politics.
Cause frankly.. Save for a few issues on which both parties reverse
themselves from time to time.. There is not much difference.
John Davis
> The largest audience estimate I've seen for Limbaugh is 30 million;
> reliable estimates are lower.
>
> The number of registered Republican voters in the United States is
> several times that top estimate.
>
> You are making untrue blanket statements about a large segment of the
> population and advocating violence against them. That is contemptible.
>
This is an Apples v/s Oranges argument
Just because the largest audience he has had (At any given performance)
is 30 Million, does not mean 100 Million or more are not listening to
him.. Some may listen on Monday, and others on Tuesday, and still more
on Wendesday.. Some may listen 2nd hand, Some may read about it
tomorrow. and more
And what's worse is it does not take 30 million to direct a political
party.. I suspect 30,000 could do it quite well, or even 30 for that
matter... If they are the right 30.
John Davis
> On 5/23/2010 9:39 AM, Gary McGath wrote:
>> You are making untrue blanket statements about a large segment of the
>> population and advocating violence against them. That is contemptible.
>>
>
> I agree, Gary. And I want to thank you and Eyal for taking the stand
> that you have.
>
> Sandy
One thign to remember "A boot to the head" can be physical violence.
Or it can mean "A serious Education"
This is a bit like my line on the 5 ways to BOOT a computer
Turn it on (Cold bood)
Press Reset (if it has one,,, Hard boot)
CTRL-ALT-DEL x2, (Warm boot) (Windows prior to current version which I
don't know)
Do you wish to restart, NOW LATER (Soft boot)
Steel toe boot (I hope I don't have to explain that)
A Boot to the head, can mean "Turn Their Brain On"
Though in truth, I don't think that was the kind of boot the original
statement meant... Still.. A boot to the head can be verbal or written,
not physical.
There was another tag line in that file (Which should still be on this
computer if I'm not mistaken) "Did you ever stop to think,,, and not
get started again"
Many people.. Have stopped their brain and let others do their thinking
for them.. Rush is but one of those "others" and they need to RE-BOOT
their brain and start thinking for themselves.
John Davis
> D.J. wrote:
>>
>> Of course, I'm one of those stupid people who cannot comprehend how
>> any minority can feel the Republicans represent them. Certainly not
>> based on the Republican history of actions in the 20th and 21st
>> centuries. Uhm, Gregorian calendars.
>
> As I grew up in California in the 1950s, I was very proud of Republicans
> like Governor (and later Supreme Court Justice) Earl Warren. I also read
> about and admired Republican President Theodore Roosevelt and Robert La
> Follette, Sr. I didn't agree with Robert Taft (the one who died in 1953)
> or Barry Goldwater on a lot of issues, but they were still honorable and
> sensible people. And I could name a lot of other 20th century and 21st
> century Republicans I have considered to be honorable and sensible.
>
> --Lee
>
I agree there are many good Republicians, I've voted for some though I
am basically a Democrat (Really I'm about 60/40 or independent, I vote
for who I think is best)
Since everyone (Save you) is bashing Republicians I'm going to bash a
few registered democrats
I recall several Presidential elections ago a local radio station did a
"Man in the street" thing where a reporter/anchor walked up to someone
(me in one case) shoved a Microphone in our face and ask what we think
of an issue.. (NOTE: In some cases this would earn the reporter a trip
to the proctologist for a mic-ectemy, by since the question before me
was "What do you think of this party" (Not a political party) he was OK,
he was also a friend but that's a long story)
Well. the question this day was "Who you gonna vote for"
One respondent, a Democrat, said "I'm going to vote for the Democrat
Canidate (NOTE he gave the name), I don't like it but the union says I
got to vote for him"
Well.. The "Boot to the head" here is I think that man should have had
his voter registration canceled.
I mean.. I decide who I am voting for.. Oh, I listen to the Union's
input, but the final decision is MINE not theirs. they do not TELL ME
WHO TO VOTE FOR ever. They just suggest.. So do others. I DECIDE.
By the way. that was a year I voted republican.. I might add, the
Republicans won that year.. Despite the fact that the incumbent was also
on the ballot.
What I'm saying is: There are folks on both sides of the isle who do not
think for themselves and thus need a Brain Boot as it were.
John Davis
> How do you think undocumented immigrants from Krypton should be treated?
>
Depends... If they respect and uphold our laws. Like Superman
If they break our laws, kill our people and otherwise make ....*sses of
themselves.. Like Zod.
John Davis
> There's a book by Stella Suberman called _The Jew Store_, which is a
> memoir of the youngest daughter in a Jewish family in a southern town. I
> believe I must have heard the author interviewed (probably on NPR) about
> it, mentioning that a lot of Southern towns would have this one Jewish
> family that ran a store. I thought back to Statesboro and remembered the
> one there. It was a matter of convenience, apparently, and not of
> brotherhood.
Well yes.. It is a matter of convenience.. The Traditional "Holy Day"
for the Jews is Saturday.. (Lee, correct me if I'm wrong but that's
sundown Friday to Sundown Saturday isn't it?)
A Orthodox Jew will do no work on that day save reading of the Holy
Book, I mean they do not even COOK on the Holy day but rather eat food
prepared the day before. They do not drive, answer the telephone or
anything else.
Most Christians (not all) Observe Sunday and again in the Orthodox
fashion all work is suspended for the Holy day.
This is why for many years (up till the 70's basically) most stores
closed on Sunday. Jewish stores closed on Saturday.. So if you had a
Jewish Store, and you needed something on Sunday... You were good to shop.
(Today most stores are 7-day)
I have one business I work with, 2 employees, ONE Jewish
He gets Friday and Saturday off.. His partner, Sunday and Monday.
Works out great.
John Davis
> When I was an officer candidate in Newport, RI, I found out very quickly
> about the anti-Jewish sentiment in the Navy. The only day for religious
> services was Sunday. The powers that be didn't want to be bothered with
> things Jewish. When I pointed out that not everyone prays on Sunday (and it
> wasn't just the Jews), they gave me lip and attitude. It wasn't that they
> were ignorant of other faiths, it's that they WANTED TO BE IGNORANT OF OTHER
> FAITHS!
1: You are very correct that it is not just Jews (My "Dad" (not to be
confused with my Father which is a biological term) was 7th day Adventist.
2: What you ran up against there is what is called MILITARY INTELLIGENCE
by many (yes, I know that to the military, intelligence is information)
But you know the old phrase "Don't shoot the messenger"
Well in the very old times (Cesar era for example) if the Messenger
brought bad news to the king.... OFF WITH HIS HEAD.
This is how the military mind (The die-hardened military mind) works. If
I do not want to hear it.. then it does not exist.
They did not want to hear a 2nd holy day.. So they simply closed their
ears to it.. military Intelligence, the ultimate oxymoron.
John Davis
> Several fundies, about 5 years ago, told me that Jesus wasn't Jewish.
> They knew that Christianity didn't exist until he had risen after the
> crucifixtion, but he wasn't Jewish. I pointed it kinda mentions that
> in the Bible. Well, they claim it was mistranslated, and their Bible
> didn't say that.
>
> I have avoided them since. I have no skills in talking to crazies.
>
> JimP.
Well.... Though there are several mis-translations in the Bible and even
more in the one they were likely thumping.... That is not one of them
Kip Williams
> On the other side of the isle, the Democrats let their fringe elements
> take over a long time ago. Thus the Democrats nominate extremely far
> left folks like Obama instead of moderate folks like say Governor
> Schweitzer.
Yeah, Obama's barely to the right of Nixon.
Kip W
Lee Gold
> The Traditional "Holy Day"
> for the Jews is Saturday.. (Lee, correct me if I'm wrong but that's
> sundown Friday to Sundown Saturday isn't it?)
Jewish Sabbath is Friday sundset to Saturday dark enough to see three
stars. We hang onto it as long as we can. Local filkers are used to my
sending Barry out to count stars Saturday night to see if it's late
enough yet for me to sell copies of Xeno.
>
> A Orthodox Jew will do no work on that day save reading of the Holy
> Book,
Studying the Bible and other religious texts isn't work.
Googling will get you a list of what does count as "work" by Orthodox
standards. (Singing isn't work but retuning a guitar is. Sex isn't
work. Running a business or working for a salary is work.) Anything
necessary to save human life overrides the Sabbath restriction on work
and almost all other Jewish laws.
--Lee
Lee Gold
> Well in the very old times (Cesar era for example) if the Messenger
> brought bad news to the king.... OFF WITH HIS HEAD.
I don't know if you're referring to Julius Caesar or to Augustus Caesar
or to some other Caesar, but I don't think you're correct.
There have, of course, been stupid and bad-tempered kings now and then,
but I can't think of any monarchies tht executed the messenger for
bringing bad news -- and endured long enough that it became an
established custom.
Please make this stuff rhyme or scan -- or come up with a citation to
some authority I'm likely to believe -- or go back to talking about filking.
--Lee
Sandy Tyra
I would suggest treating anyone who can bench press a Buick very, very
carefully. ;-)
The soluton recently used on "Smallville" works, too.
Sandy
Dan Goodman
> On 5/23/2010 3:09 AM, Leslie wrote:
> >On May 22, 7:33 am, D.J.<jollycampe...@cableone.net> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > In my lifetime, and the places I have lived, the majority of the
> > > problems I have had due to religious differences with others come
> > > to around 90 percent from fundies.
> > >
> > I've got a song about that.
> >
> > (Chorus)
> > Bigots all! Bigots all!
> > Launch them off the lampposts everywhere.
> > Christifundies, Judifundies, Moslefundies, Bhuddifundies:
> > I don't f*cking care.
>
> Now Leslie... That's not very nice.
>
> Want to borrow my ladder so you can hoist 'em up to the top of the
> lamppost?
>
> (It might not be nice... but ... Well... Might be a good idea)
That song is incomplete; it leaves out atheists and militant agnostics.
Note: I'm almost an atheist. However, I think that being absolutely
certain there is no god requires godlike powers....
Mike Van Pelt
Gary McGath <garym@_MYLASTNAME_.com> wrote:
>Anyone who's somehow gotten the impression that Rush Limbaugh represents
>me might want to take a look at my LiveJournal
>(madfilkentist.livejournal.com).
Yeah, I nearly snarffed Mountain Dew all over my keyboard
when he made that accusation.
I've stayed out of it because I've decided on a policy
of not interfering with the opposition when they're
making their side look like idiots.
--
Mike Van Pelt | "I don't advise it unless you're nuts."
mvp at calweb.com | -- Ray Wilkinson, after riding out Hurricane
KE6BVH | Ike on Surfside Beach in Galveston
Mike Van Pelt
D.J. <jollyc...@cableone.net> wrote:
>Several fundies, about 5 years ago, told me that Jesus wasn't Jewish.
>They knew that Christianity didn't exist until he had risen after the
>crucifixtion, but he wasn't Jewish. I pointed it kinda mentions that
>in the Bible. Well, they claim it was mistranslated, and their Bible
>didn't say that.
Ewww... I must confess some morbid curiosity as to what
version they were peddling.
(I've always assumed the klukkers must have some "special
judenrein version", but I stay as far away from klukkers
as I possibly can.)
Joe Kesselman
> I mean, do they not realize that Christ, the son of Mary, a
> Jewish woman, was thus himself Jewish?
"Jewish? Really? I always thought He was Irish."
(Old joke, but it makes the point -- people don't think about it, and
tend to assume Jesus was more-or-less like themselves. That happens with
many historical and/or literary figures.)
D.J.
Oh, that is true. And I'm glad you read what I wrote.
There are times when I wonder what all of the political parties are
doing. The politicians seem to be upset no end when someone uses
something called Critical Thinking and then reads/listens to
politicians' speeches and writings.