Bach and Musical Rhetoric
Hughes/Bishton
(90115.7), Philippe Herreweghe includes an essay with the above title,
in which he suggests that a "musical rhetoric ... as a coherent,
complex and codified system, governed the composition and the
performance of music for over two centuries of our history."
He is convinced that "musical rhetoric is THE ONLY VALID KEY TO ALL
MUSIC FROM JOSQUIN TO BACH."
Some quotations are appended, trying to paraphrase, and I wonder
a. whether anyone in this NG could point me towards a more thorough
explication of this theory, which seems on the face of it to be quite
sound.
b. how well-respected Herreweghe and- his performances are in academic
circles, and whether this theory of rhetoric is considered
'mainstream' in the field.
[quoted from "Bach and Musical Rhetoric" by Philippe Herreweghe,
harmonia mundi france CD901155.7]
"All rhetoric is based on the theory of the AFFETTI."
[I skip this for brevity]
"1. Inventio
"Inventio establishes the connexions of these affetti with each
component of the work. ... It is within the framework of inventio that
the composer decides on the form of a piece, its rhythmic character,
its tempo, and its key...
"2. Elaboratio
"...the work moulds itself according to the pattern of the classical
oration.
"a. EXORDIUM : the introduction,
"b. NARRATIO : the orator sets forth the facts of the problem,
"c. PROPOSITIO : he states his thesis,
"d. CONFUTATIO : he gives the counter-arguments to his thesis,
"e. CONFIRMATIO : he restates his thesis in a reinforced form,
"f. PERORATIO : he concludes.
" Surprising as it might seem, this mould is applied to every Baroque
work of any length...
"3. Decoratio
"...the composer will go on to borrow [spoken discourse's] artifices,
too, i.e. the _rhetorical figures_, in order to make his message as
gripping and as effective as possible ... Over a hundred of them can
be counted, among them the _metabasis_, the _apocope_, the
_exclamatio_, the _suspiratio_, ...
[he gives explanations of several, of which I quote only one]
"CATACHRESIS : the non-resolution, or the unusual resolution of a
dissonance. In the flagellation aria [No.51, Matthaeus-Passion], a
cruel series of catachreses evokes the scene, and the resolution does
not come until bar 5 on the words, 'Haltet ein'."
flux aeterna music
Woodbridge.Suffolk.UK
to reply, change 'me' to 'u'.
Sybrand Bakker
battle, being old-fashioned, he was defended by professor Birnbaum of the
Leipzig University stating 'he knows the parts and advantages (Theile und
Vortheile) of musical rhetoric.
Explanation of this system abound, though most of them are in German (as
the Germans in the 17th and 18th century seem to have been the only ones
writing about it). I will mention a few and leave it to you to find out
whether there are translations (some of them are so famous they almost
must have been translated). Also, most music encyclopeadias like New
Grove, Harvard Dictionary of Music will have lemmas on this subject.
First of all a few titles in English:
Dietrich Bartel, Musica Poetica, Musical-Rhetorical figures in German
baroque Music
ISBN 0-8032-1276-3 (got this one from Amazon, didn't read it yet)
Joachim Burmeister, Musical Poetics, translated, with introduction and
Notes, by Benito V Rivera, ISBN 0-300-05110-7 (this is actually the first
full-fledged musical rhetoric from late 16th century. It focuses on music
of Orlando di Lasso)
and of course, though this may not have been translated
Hans-Heinrich Unger, Die beziehungen zwischen Musik und Rethorik im 16-18
Jahrhundert,
published, by Olms Verlag, Hildesheim/New-York
Then, the rhetoric commonly used in Germany seems to have been M. Fabius
Quintilianus, Instutiones oratoriae. No doubt there will be a modern
edition somewhere
b This theory is considered mainstream and Herreweghe is definitely not
the only one using it.
Hth,
Sybrand Bakker
SRB
part of musical composition, of which JS Bach was a master. Philippe
Heereweghe's own authority in this field is minimal or non-existant.
His notes, however, are based on numerous writings on the subject.
One excellent source with examples that comes to mind is "Musicieren
als Brugman" a fairly concise paperback book (in Dutch) from the mid
1980's. I'd be interested to know of others.
Steve Barrell
Kate Brown
Hughes/Bishton <hu...@empo.me-net.com> wrote
<Herreweghe, Bach and Rhetoric>
He's right, of course, but is far from being the only one interested in
these things. And Rhetoric is not the only lost discipline underlying
music 'from Josquin to Bach'... Philip Pickett has written a very
interesting analysis of the Brandenburg Concerti relating them to
aspects of Renaissance/ Baroque iconography and cosmography.
As Harnoncourt said, since the early nineteenth century and the advent
of the conservatoires, musical education has become something self-
sufficient and rather mass-produced. Together with the effects of the
romantic emphasis on the essential originality of genius, this has meant
that we have largely lost touch with and forgotten the nature of the
knowledge common to any educated person from the middle ages through to
the eighteenth century. Well into the modern period, university
curricula were based on the Seven Liberal Arts: the Quadrivium -
Music, Arithmetic, Geometry, Astronomy (the mathematical disciplines),
and the Trivium - Grammar, Rhetoric, Dialectic (the linguistic
disciplines, the artes dicendi).
A working knowledge of rhetoric (and Latin grammar, for that matter,
whether the language concerned is English, French, German or Italian) is
invaluable for understanding why all kinds of musical forms, from
madrigals to sonatas, are articulated as they are, and is also essential
for reallly understanding the way in which most seventeenth and
eighteenth century vocal music works. This is the period I'm most
familiar with, but I'm sure it applies perhaps even more strongly to
earlier periods. Zarlino talks about it a lot, as I recall...
But basic rhetorical principles are not difficult to grasp, because they
are still part of the way we are taught to think - thesis, antithesis,
synthesis; statement, development, coda - there are basic patterns here
that are easily comprehended by any ear, whether it knows the names or
not. There's a real danger of getting bogged down in rhetorical
details, and not seeing the wood for the trees - it's something they
recognised themselves - every seventeenth/eighteenth century treatise I
can think of, whether on rhetoric or playing an instrument, is insistent
that the only goal of all this artifice is to move the hearts of the
audience, and that the best performer is the one whose art is not
noticed.
By the way, the Roman Quintilian, who is quoted by every writer
referring to rhetoric, certainly talks of emotions being affected, but
the actual theory of 'affetti' is an eighteenth century one, and, I
believe, has a lot to do with Descartes' theory of animal spirits. I
think there's a good description of the theory in Quantz's treatise on
playing the flute, which is fairly readily available in translation, I
expect (sorry, no exact reference).
--
Kate B
London
M. Schulter
: A working knowledge of rhetoric (and Latin grammar, for that matter,
: whether the language concerned is English, French, German or Italian) is
: invaluable for understanding why all kinds of musical forms, from
: madrigals to sonatas, are articulated as they are, and is also essential
: for reallly understanding the way in which most seventeenth and
: eighteenth century vocal music works. This is the period I'm most
: familiar with, but I'm sure it applies perhaps even more strongly to
: earlier periods. Zarlino talks about it a lot, as I recall...
Hello, there, and I'd agree very much about Zarlino: he not only
emphasizes the importance of having the harmony express the words, but
often uses rhetorical parallels in discussing common compositional
techniques. For example, just as Virgil does not arrange the _Aeniad_ in
strict chronological order, so a composer who hits upon a theme which does
not seem to have its best effect when used immediately should save it for
another place.
Also, just as Zarlino notes Cicero's unhappy use of excessive vowel
assonance in a self-laudatory statement on his consulship, so he urges
that musicians should avoid too much repetition without some saving
variation.
Nicola Vicentino, in the same era, goes further, arguing that vocal music
must reflect the sense of the words, and that to do so it can and should
take liberties that would not be acceptable in instrumental music --
unlike Zarlino, who emphasizes expression of the text, but always within
the bounds of what pleases the ear without undue disturbance.
Most respectfully,
Margo Schulter
msch...@value.net
Alison H. Kranias
> MUSIC FROM JOSQUIN TO BACH."
>
> Some quotations are appended, trying to paraphrase, and I wonder
> a. whether anyone in this NG could point me towards a more thorough
> explication of this theory, which seems on the face of it to be quite
> sound.
I found the chapter on rhetorical proportions in Betty Bang Mather's
"Dance Rhythms of the French Baroque" very helpful (Indiana University
Press, 1987).
Alison Kranias
harpsichordist, Calgary
Rebekah Ahrendt
and Ulrich Thieme's "Die Affektenlehre im philosophischen und musikalischen
Denken des Barock." Not sure if there are translations. And of course, the
New Grove's Dictionary article, "Rhetoric" (for an overview).
A concept of rhetoric is indeed very helpful to musicians when trying to
analyze and perform a piece of music (besides it being quite fun to see what
the composer is up to, especially in an instrumental piece).
Cheers.
R. Ahrendt
viola da gamba
Koninklijk Conservatorium, Den Haag, Nederland
JLHughes
there.
If you are still following this thread, I would like to nudge the
discussion towards the practical/analytical end of things, by asking
you:
Is it meaningful to analyse especially instrumental music
rhetorically?
If so, I don't need you to do it, but rather explain what it reveals
about the piece that isn't available to us using other analytical
tools.
And if not, why not?
That is: is rhetorical analysis of any use for understanding the
music it analyses, or only useful for preparing to compose
rhetorically oneself?
Quite a lot of analysis may well fall into the latter category.
.
been translated into English. If anyone needs the details, I
will try to track down my copy. His other book of essays
has also been translated.
Douglas Amrine
London
HOWARD HELLER
.> @FROM :kili...@dircon.co.uk
.> N @SUBJECT:Re: Bach and Musical Rhetoric
.> N @UMSGID :<3679FE...@dircon.co.uk>
.> N @UNEWSGR:01rec.music.early
.> Yes, Nikolaus Harnoncourt's "Musik als Klangrede" has
.> been translated into English. If anyone needs the details, I
.> will try to track down my copy. His other book of essays
.> has also been translated.
.> Douglas Amrine
.> London
I, for one, would most certainly be interested in any info concerning the
avaialability of any and all of Harnoncourt's writings which have been
translated into English and are obtainable here in the USA.
Many thanks,
Howard Heller
NY City
.. Free your mind ... the rest will follow!
___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30
Michael Starke
>avaialability of any and all of Harnoncourt's writings which have been
>translated into English and are obtainable here in the USA.
>
>Many thanks,
>Howard Heller
>NY City
>.. Free your mind ... the rest will follow!
>___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30
You are in luck.
Amadeus Press here in Portland, Oregon has published
"Musik als Klangrede" as "Baroque Music Today: Music As Speech"
subtitled "Ways to a New Understanding of Music".
ISBN 0-931340-05-5
Another from the same publisher is "The Musical Dialogue, Thoughts
on Monteverdi, Bach and Mozart"
ISBN 0-931340-08-X
I imagine these are available via Amazon.com.
My Music:
http://www.midiworld.com/c/mj_starke
Alas! all music jars when the soul's out of tune.
-Miguel de Cervantes
HOWARD HELLER
MS> @FROM :mjst...@ix.netcom.com
MS> N @UMSGID :<75fs6s$f...@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com>
MS> N @UNEWSGR:01rec.music.early
HH> I, for one, would most certainly be interested in any info concerning the
HH> avaialability of any and all of Harnoncourt's writings which have been
HH> translated into English and are obtainable here in the USA.
MS> You are in luck...
Thanks very much Michael. I've been a big fan of Harnoncourt for about
twenty-five years now...mostly through his recordings of Bach. I will
surely attempt to track down these books, and I do appreciate your
taking the time to reply with the info.
Happy holidays and best wishes for the new year.
Regards,
Howard Heller
E-mail: howard...@juno.com
***************************************************
* Imagine a world with no hypothetical situations *
***************************************************
.. Dark colors absorb heat, why isn't it hotter in the shade.
___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30
ECrownfiel
I recommend Dietrich Bartel, _Musica Poetica: Musical-Rhetorical Figures in
German Baroque Music_ (Nebraska, 1997).
Elizabeth Crownfield