Largo e Spiccato
oku...@my-deja.com
Grossi “L’Estro Armonico” by Vivaldi contain
slow movements with the indication “Largo e
Spiccato.”
I am wondering how those movements should be
played, since I understand spiccato is, roughly
speaking, to be played with a jumping bow.
At present I own two recordings of L’Estro
Armonico, one by Claudio Scimone I SOLISTI VENETI
and the other by Fabio Biondi L’EUROPA GALANTE.
Claudio Scimone’s largo e spiccato sounds far
from spiccato, each note sustained almost like
tenuto bowing, which seems to give the music
somewhat solemn atmosphere. On the other hand,
Fabio Biondi’s is almost what you can describe
as spiccato and this makes the music light, sharp
or even aggressive.
Could I get some information/opinion on this?
Masatoshi Okuyama
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Jonathan Addleman
>Some pieces (op. 3-11, e.g.) among Concerti
>Grossi “L’Estro Armonico” by Vivaldi contain
>slow movements with the indication “Largo e
>Spiccato.”
Spiccato (from the verb spiccare) seems to mean essentially the same
as 'staccato' - literally "separated". Perhaps someone who speaks
better Italian than me can explain any subtle differences that may
exist...
One thing that's important to remember - back then, a lot of words
didn't have the "normal" sense that they now have, they just meant
what they mean in normal language (to a greater extent, in any
case). Many words have changed their meanings somewhat since then,
as their musical uses have become a bit more specialised - spiccare
among them.
--
Jonathan Addleman
John Howell
>Grossi “L’Estro Armonico” by Vivaldi contain
>slow movements with the indication “Largo e
>Spiccato.”
>
>played, since I understand spiccato is, roughly
>speaking, to be played with a jumping bow.
"Before 1750 "spiccato" and "staccato" were often used as equivalents, both
meaning "detached" or "separated" as opposed to legato." (The Norton/Grove
Concise Encyclopedia of Music)
Now, does that definition suggest an approach to the music that is
artistically valid?
John
John & Susie Howell
Virginia Tech Department of Music
Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A. 24061-0240
Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034
(mailto:John....@vt.edu)
http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html
Jason Smart
"John Howell" <John....@vt.edu> wrote in message
news:v04003a2ab60babbc2b34@[128.173.232.136]...
Oh, you crafty devil.
Ale Redfiddler
Jonathan Addleman <jo...@redowl.penguinpowered.com> wrote in message
zoaF5.339435$1h3.8...@news20.bellglobal.com...
> My, oku...@my-deja.com, what a big post you have!
> Spiccato (from the verb spiccare) seems to mean essentially the same
> as 'staccato' - literally "separated". Perhaps someone who speaks
> better Italian than me can explain any subtle differences that may
> exist...
Hi!
We (italians) usually use the term staccato mostly for moderate tempos
(separate short strokes, or a series of short notes separated one one bow
stroke), whereas the term spiccato is used for faster tempos.
However the main difference is that staccato is an "on-the-string" bowing,
whereas spiccato is an "off-the-string" bowing.
> Many words have changed their meanings somewhat since then,
> as their musical uses have become a bit more specialised - spiccare
> among them.
Of course what I wrote refers to modern terminology. I presume in Vivaldi's
times both terms were (roughly) equivalent.
Alessandra
Jonathan Addleman
>
>Jonathan Addleman <jo...@redowl.penguinpowered.com> wrote in message
>zoaF5.339435$1h3.8...@news20.bellglobal.com...
>> as 'staccato' - literally "separated". Perhaps someone who speaks
>> better Italian than me can explain any subtle differences that may
>> exist...
>
>We (italians) usually use the term staccato mostly for moderate tempos
>(separate short strokes, or a series of short notes separated one one bow
>stroke), whereas the term spiccato is used for faster tempos.
>However the main difference is that staccato is an "on-the-string" bowing,
>whereas spiccato is an "off-the-string" bowing.
Again, I should have clarified (I should really stop posting when
I'm half asleep..) I meant that the *non-musical* definitions of the
words were like that.. The bit below was meant to say that back
then, these non-musical definitions were really what was meant, (to
some extent) since the musical definitions hadn't had time to
change. That's a generalization of course, but I've noticed that it
can help in some cases to remember that.
--
Jonathan Addleman
oku...@my-deja.com
"Ale Redfiddler" <redfi...@libero.it> wrote:
> We (italians) usually use the term staccato mostly for moderate tempos
> (separate short strokes, or a series of short notes separated one one
bow
> stroke), whereas the term spiccato is used for faster tempos.
> However the main difference is that staccato is an "on-the-string"
bowing,
> whereas spiccato is an "off-the-string" bowing.
>
> > Many words have changed their meanings somewhat since then,
> > as their musical uses have become a bit more specialised - spiccare
> > among them.
>
> Of course what I wrote refers to modern terminology. I presume in
Vivaldi's
> times both terms were (roughly) equivalent.
> Alessandra
Thank you for the information. Now, do you think we can have the
conclusion that playing in legato bowing (like I SOLISTI VENETI) is
wrong from the historical point of view? They adopt neither spiccato
nor staccato bowing.
Masatoshi Okuyama
ce...@sn.myswan.ne.jp
Ale Redfiddler
<oku...@my-deja.com> wrote in message 8s5vhv$nd3$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <FCrF5.18669$Z95.6...@news.infostrada.it>,
> Thank you for the information. Now, do you think we can have the
> conclusion that playing in legato bowing (like I SOLISTI VENETI) is
> wrong from the historical point of view? They adopt neither spiccato
> nor staccato bowing.
I haven't heard Scimone nor Biondi.
But Vivaldi wrote "largo e spiccato", bothering to specify that the strings
should play spiccato.
Personally, I would say that adopting legato bowing is in fact quite far
from a correct "authentic" interpretation.
(generally speaking, Scimone's interpretations are quite far from what we
might consider an historical approach.)
Alessandra
Ale Redfiddler
> My, Ale Redfiddler, what a big post you have!
> >
> >Jonathan Addleman <jo...@redowl.penguinpowered.com> wrote in message
> >zoaF5.339435$1h3.8...@news20.bellglobal.com...
> >> My, oku...@my-deja.com, what a big post you have!
> >
> >> Spiccato (from the verb spiccare) seems to mean essentially the same
> >> as 'staccato' - literally "separated". Perhaps someone who speaks
> >> better Italian than me can explain any subtle differences that may
> >> exist...
> Again, I should have clarified (I should really stop posting when
> I'm half asleep..) I meant that the *non-musical* definitions of the
> words were like that..
I apologize for the misunderstanding.
In fact "staccato" literally means detached, and "spiccato" means marked
(quite the same as "marcato").
These are the strict etymological meanings.
I hope that's what you were refering to.
Alessandra
Jonathan Addleman
>> I'm half asleep..) I meant that the *non-musical* definitions of the
>> words were like that..
>
>In fact "staccato" literally means detached, and "spiccato" means marked
>(quite the same as "marcato").
>These are the strict etymological meanings.
>I hope that's what you were refering to.
That's exactly it.. I wasn't quite sure what the difference was
between the two - my dictionaries (both of them) have very similar
definitions for each one.. But, of cource, you can't explain the
subtleties of a language in a book!
--
Jonathan Addleman