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The baroque oboe

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J. F. Morris

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Sep 15, 1997, 3:00:00 AM9/15/97

Can anyone please offer some advice about the baroque oboe? I play
occassionly with a modern oboe player (I play the baroque flute and
bassoon), and I am trying to convince him of the beauties of older
instruments. I took him to a practice session of a local EM group, where 2
members have baroque oboes, and the experience was not a good argument for
the unique beauties of older instruments. Actually, so far as the oboe was
concerned, it was a powerful, unbeatable argument for sticking to the
modern instrument, and we were very lucky that members of the Society for
Prevention of Cruelty to Ducks were not on patrol that evening! This was
effectively my first exposure to a baroque oboe live myself. Thinking back
over my CD collection, there are a number of recordings where the oboe
comes in and I really can't wait until the strident blasting is over, and
yet there are a number of other recordings I have where the oboe is really
beautiful. What's the difference? The style of instrument? The ability of
the player (if someone is good enough to record, then I don't think that
this is going to be the crucial factor)? The maker of the instrument? For
the record, the owner of the baroque oboe said that it is physically very
exhausting to play. The modern oboe player got a beautiful sound out of the
instrument (the owner sounds like a noisy duck in great pain; not at all
musical), but the veins on his forehead were standing out, and he could
only keep up on the instrument for a very short period of time. Is the
Baroque oboe really that hard to play? If so, why did anyone bother to
write music for it? Can any oboe players please enlighten me?

Sincerely,

John Morris
Tagajo, Japan.

Ronald Nelson

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Sep 15, 1997, 3:00:00 AM9/15/97

John-Please tell your modern oboe player to re-consider his opinion about the
baroque oboe. For inspiration, he might wish to find a CD of Telemann trio
sonatas performed by Camerata Koln with Hans-Peter Westermann on baroque oboe.
[Harmonia Munci D-7800 Freiburg] It is played to perfection. The sound
blends with the other instruments far better than could be possible with a
modern oboe. I've heard some rather good "live" performances by Steve Hammer
and Virginia Brewer. And recently, at an early music workshop (at Amherst
College), I had the opportunity to listen to live performances on the baroque
oboe by Randi Cook and some talented students.

Your modern oboe friend should not judge the potential for baroque oboe by the
difficulties experienced by the baroque oboe player at the local EM session
you attended. You mentioned that your oboe friend was able to achieve a
"beautiful sound". He apparently has the right approach to the instrument (he
already has reed chops and the ability to place his fingers in some rather
uncomfortable positions). The poor fellow with the "Duck" sound in all
probability had no prior experience with reeds and very likely is not
approaching his horn properly. I can readily identify with the frustrations
of playing the baroque oboe. I have been playing the horn for ten weeks and
sure do have my share of "quacks". I did not come to the baroque oboe with a
reed background (I actually do early brass-cornett and sackbut). So.,I
started by taking lessons with an excellent player and teacher (Virginia
Brewer). A teacher can spot problems and suggest solutions. For instance,
she suggested some embouchure approaches which mellowed out the sound a bit.
She gave me some finger exercises to reduce my "quack ratio" and most of all
she insists on proper musical phrasing and tone production for everything
(including scales). As a result of her teaching and my practicing, I am
making progress. I would suggest that the poor fellow with the "Duck" sound
could benefit by studying with a teacher.

Getting back to your modern oboe friend---he might ask "why bother?-I can
play early music on my modern horn" It is not easy to respond to that type of
"mind set". There have been loads of discussions in this BB on the merits of
period instruments. My personal view is that as a brass player, I enjoy
doing Gabrieli more on cornetto than I did as a modern trumpet player. Is it
tougher on cornetto? You bet!. But the emotional satisfaction of
occasionally achieving the effect that Gabrieli heard in the early 1600's is
worth the challenge and the frustrations.

As an aside to your modern oboe friend. When you play baroque flute with him,
he apparently has to transpose down a half a tone to approximate your baroque
pitch at 415. It seems to me he would rather play the baroque oboe in the key
of C than the modern oboe in the key of B

Ron Nelson (new at the baroque oboe and loving it)

Kevin Lay

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Sep 15, 1997, 3:00:00 AM9/15/97

--------------96940531A6EF57F13BA06752
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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J. F. Morris wrote:

My wife is a getting her doctorate in modern oboe, but also plays and
teaches baroque oboe. I can tell you that with the right instrument
(her former instrument wasn't great) and a good player it sounds
wonderful. In fact, the baroque oboe can play in a violin section and
blend! It can also blend with voices well. Lara (my wife) is 6 months
pregnant so she's only playing her baroque now because there's less
pressure involved. If you want to talk to her about her instrument,
teacher, recordings. etc. i'm sure she'll be glad to help.
Kevin and Lara Lay

--------------96940531A6EF57F13BA06752
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<HTML>
J. F. Morris wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>Can anyone please offer some advice
about the baroque oboe? I play
 occassionly with a modern oboe player (I play the baroque
flute and
 bassoon), and I am trying to convince him of the beauties
of older
 instruments. I took him to a practice session of a local
EM group, where 2
 members have baroque oboes, and the experience was not
a good argument for
 the unique beauties of older instruments. Actually, so
far as the oboe was
 concerned, it was a powerful, unbeatable argument for
sticking to the
 modern instrument, and we were very lucky that members
of the Society for
 Prevention of Cruelty to Ducks were not on patrol that
evening! This was
 effectively my first exposure to a baroque oboe live
myself. Thinking back
 over my CD collection, there are a number of recordings
where the oboe
 comes in  and I really can't wait until the strident
blasting is over, and
 yet there are a number of other recordings I have where
the oboe is really
 beautiful. What's the difference? The style of instrument?
The ability of
 the player (if someone is good enough to record, then
I don't think that
 this is going to be the crucial factor)? The maker of
the instrument? For
 the record, the owner of the baroque oboe said that it
is physically very
 exhausting to play. The modern oboe player got a beautiful
sound out of the
 instrument (the owner sounds like a noisy duck in great
pain; not at all
 musical), but the veins on his forehead were standing
out, and he could
 only keep up on the instrument for a very short period
of time. Is the
 Baroque oboe really that hard to play? If so, why did
anyone bother to
 write music for it? Can any oboe players please enlighten
me?

Sincerely,

John Morris
 Tagajo, Japan.</BLOCKQUOTE>
   My wife is a getting her doctorate in modern oboe, but also
plays and teaches baroque oboe.   I can tell you that with the
right instrument (her former instrument wasn't great) and a good player
it sounds wonderful.  In fact, the baroque oboe can play in a violin
section and blend!  It can also blend with voices well.  Lara
(my wife) is 6 months pregnant so she's only playing her baroque now because
there's less pressure involved.  If you want to talk to her about
her instrument, teacher, recordings. etc. i'm sure she'll be glad to help.
 Kevin and Lara Lay</HTML>

--------------96940531A6EF57F13BA06752--

Kevin Lay

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Sep 18, 1997, 3:00:00 AM9/18/97

to J. F. Morris

--------------EE18F34399194E67545B0BC5

J. F. Morris wrote:

I am both a modern and baroque oboist, and can certainly
understand the perspective of your friend. When I was first introduced
to the baroque oboe, I had absolutely no interest in it. It divided my
efforts - practicing modern oboe was enough to keep me occupied. In
1993, I decided to take it up not for any musical reason other than to
make myself "more marketable" as a college-level teacher, with
historical musicology and instruments my secondary area of expertise.
Almost immediately, I developed a love of the instrument for its many
attributes. The modern oboe is no less appealing to me - it has a
sweet, very focused sound, and an ease of technique which allows me to
play anything on it. However, the baroque oboe is much easier to blow,
more mellow and rich in timbre, more delicate and gentle in inflection,
and due to its cross-fingerings, every key it plays in is very
distinctive. The modern oboe is designed to cut through a hundred-member
orchestra to the back row of a 2,000 seat hall, whereas a baroque oboe
is a chamber instrument, very intimate in nature, in which every nuance
and inflection can be readily heard. Of course, with a hard reed, one
can easily overpower a trumpet with both the modern or baroque oboe!
But that is part of the excitement of oboe playing.
As far as the oboist you heard, it sounds like he was not a modern
oboist which is a handicap when learning baroque oboe. A softer reed
and a mute (yes, they may be used - wool and cotton are the historically
correct mutes; tissue paper also works) might be helpful to him as he
becomes more experienced. Interestingly, in the baroque period, there
were very few amateur oboe players - most amateurs played flute,
recorder, or violin. As for your friend, he may want to learn baroque
oboe for the same reason I did - to be more marketable. I have found
that playing baroque oboe has had the added benefit of helping my modern
playing and my understanding of the baroque repertoire. My favorite
baroque oboists on CD are Stephen Hammer and Paul Goodwin, both of whom
have many recordings, and who will no doubt give your friend a better
idea of what a baroque oboe can do.
Hope this was helpful. - Lara

--------------EE18F34399194E67545B0BC5

I am both a modern and baroque oboist,
and can certainly understand the perspective of your friend.  When
I was first introduced to the baroque oboe, I had absolutely no interest
in it.  It divided my efforts - practicing modern oboe was enough
to keep me occupied.  In 1993, I decided to take it up not for any
musical reason other than to make myself "more marketable" as a college-level
teacher, with historical musicology and instruments my secondary area of
expertise.  Almost immediately, I developed a love of the instrument
for its many attributes.  The modern oboe is no less appealing to
me - it has a sweet, very focused sound, and an ease of technique which
allows me to play anything on it.  However, the baroque oboe is much
easier to blow, more mellow and rich in timbre, more delicate and gentle
in inflection, and due to its cross-fingerings, every key it plays in is
very distinctive. The modern oboe is designed to cut through a hundred-member
orchestra to the back row of a 2,000 seat hall, whereas a baroque oboe
is a chamber instrument, very intimate in nature, in which every nuance
and inflection can be readily heard.  Of course, with a hard reed,
one can easily overpower a trumpet with both the modern or baroque oboe! 
But that is part of the excitement of oboe playing.
     As far as the oboist you heard, it sounds like he
was not a modern oboist which is a handicap when learning baroque oboe. 
A softer reed and a mute (yes, they may be used - wool and cotton are the
historically correct mutes; tissue paper also works) might be helpful to
him as he becomes more experienced.  Interestingly, in the baroque
period, there were very few amateur oboe players - most amateurs played
flute, recorder, or violin.  As for your friend, he may want to learn
baroque oboe for the same reason I did - to be more marketable.  I
have found that playing baroque oboe has had the added benefit of helping
my modern playing and my understanding of the baroque repertoire. 
My favorite baroque oboists on CD are Stephen Hammer and Paul Goodwin,
both of whom have many recordings, and who will no doubt give your friend
a better idea of what a baroque oboe can do.
 Hope this was helpful. - Lara</HTML>

--------------EE18F34399194E67545B0BC5--

Scott Smith

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Sep 23, 1997, 3:00:00 AM9/23/97

Many non-oboe players who take up baroque oboe sound horrible because
the oboe (baroque or modern) is a very difficult instrument which takes
years to learn how to get a good sound out of.

That said, if your friend already plays modern oboe, it is relatively
easy to transition by starting off with a relatively hard reed (modern
reeds are harder) and then slowly wean from the modern sound. I played
modern oboe for 10 years before taking up baroque oboe, and I was
getting a good sound out of it in less than a year.

Another big problem with baroque oboe is some players have unimaginably
bad reeds (bad instruments are not a big problem these days). Baroque
reedmaking is quite different from modern reedmaking. Buy reeds for the
first year or so if you can afford it, and get lessons in baroque
reedmaking (as well as playing; lessons are critical here).

Good luck getting your friend to try it.

By the way I am learning to play the baroque flute and I have to rub in
to all the baroque flute players out there how lucky they have it. The
oboe is to the flute as paddling upstream through whitewater is to
riding an innertube down a calm river.

Scott

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