Bob Dylan, protest singer
Richard Shapiro
don't think it made it the first time]
Awhile ago I expressed some puzzlement at audience familiarity with
"Mr Tambourine Man" when BD performed it in 1964 at Carnegie Hall. He
hadn't yet released a recording of it, and he wasn't playing gigs
around New York (or any other single place) enough that year to give
people time to get so familiar with new songs. Well, I think the
answer is that this is an older song than is usually thought and that
he'd probably been playing it in 1963. This would certainly give NYC
audiences enough time to get to know it. The reason I think so is
because of an interview (from 1966) which I've just heard. He says
here that he regards "Mr Tambourine Man" as his first truly personal
song, and that he left it off of his 3rd album because it was *too*
personal. Now it could be that he really meant to say "4th" rather
than "3rd", but given that he considers this his first personal song,
"3rd" seems more likely. If he was even considering putting this on
_Times_, I think we can assume that he had been performing it before
the recording of that album (august '63).
Now I've always regarded _Times_ as a fairly dismal record. But
imagine what the impact would have been of putting a song like "Mr
Tambourine Man" on it. I'm beginning to wonder if the whole "protest
song" business wasn't something he felt like he had to do (even though
he didn't really want to). Despite the public perception of BD as a
"protest" singer, and the annoyance among the faithful when _Another
Side_ came out, he really only did this kind of material very briefly
and apparently he was ready to get out of it quite early, certainly
earlier than "My Back Pages" (often regarded as a farewell to protest
songs). In 1962, he was still primarily a folk/blues singer in the
ordinary sense; by mid '63, he was apparently writing things like "Mr
Tambourine Man". Bob Dylan, protest singer, begins to seem like a bit
of an artificial creation.
Comments?
Charlie Sauer
>...
>
>Now I've always regarded _Times_ as a fairly dismal record. ...
"dismal?" Maybe I'm biased because it was the first record I heard, but it
has worn well with me. There are clearly non-protest songs on the record,
(Boots of Spanish Leather, When the Ship Comes In, Restless Farewell),
so that can't be the only complaint, and even the protest songs are still
memorable to me, especially Lonesome Death of Hattie Carroll.
--
Charlie Sauer Dell Computer Corp. !'s:uunet!dell!sauer
9505 Arboretum Blvd @'s:sa...@dell.com
Austin, TX 78759-7299
(512) 343-3310
Richard Shapiro
>In article <45...@bbn.COM> rsha...@bbn.com writes:
>>...
>>
>>Now I've always regarded _Times_ as a fairly dismal record. ...
>
>"dismal?" Maybe I'm biased because it was the first record I heard, but it
>has worn well with me. There are clearly non-protest songs on the record,
>(Boots of Spanish Leather, When the Ship Comes In, Restless Farewell),
>so that can't be the only complaint, and even the protest songs are still
>memorable to me, especially Lonesome Death of Hattie Carroll.
Hmmm. I'm not sure I remember offhand every track on the record. I
think I would have to put "Hattie Carroll" in the truly dismal
category, up there with "Who Killed Davey Moore" as one of the worst
Dylan protest songs. There's only one real protest song by BD that I
think works as a song, and that's "Hollis Brown" (I think that's on
this album, but I can't remember). As for the others: "Boots of
Spanish Leather" is fine and about the best thing on the album (along
with "One Too Many Mornings -- again, I think that's on here, but I'm
not absolutely sure). "When the Ship Comes In" seems pretty trivial to
me and "Restless Farewell" only so-so. The Appalachian-sounding song
about mining deaths is nicely done (I forget the name). So maybe
"dismal" is a little too strong. There are a few pretty good songs, a
few ok ones, and a few pretty awful ones, making this easily the least
satisfactory of the pre-Nashville Skyline records, though perhaps not
really "dismal". Imho, of course.
The most annoying thing is that he recorded several really stunning
songs at about the same time, and didn't see fit to release them.
"Moonshine Blues" and "Tomorrow is a Long Time" blow away anything on
_Times_, as does "Mr Tambourine Man"; and numerous other unreleased
tracks are at least as good as, say, "Restless Farewell" -- "Percy's
Song", "Guess I'm Doin Fine", "Seven Curses", "The Eternal Circle",
etc.
Charlie Sauer
>In article <31...@dell.dell.com> sa...@dell.UUCP (Charlie Sauer, ) writes:
>>In article <45...@bbn.COM> rsha...@bbn.com writes:
>>>...
>>>
>>>Now I've always regarded _Times_ as a fairly dismal record. ...
>>
>>"dismal?" Maybe I'm biased because it was the first record I heard, but it
>
>Hmmm. I'm not sure I remember offhand every track on the record. I
>think I would have to put "Hattie Carroll" in the truly dismal
>Spanish Leather" is fine and about the best thing on the album (along
>with "One Too Many Mornings -- again, I think that's on here, but I'm
>"dismal" is a little too strong. There are a few pretty good songs, a
>few ok ones, and a few pretty awful ones, making this easily the least
>satisfactory of the pre-Nashville Skyline records, though perhaps not
>really "dismal". Imho, of course.
Well, I obviously disagree about "Hattie Caroll," see it as more than a
"protest" song. "One Too Many Mornings" just slipped my mind since it
wasn't on the cassette in my hands -- I don't remember why I left it off
the cassette. I don't buy "pretty awful" any more than I buy dismal.
But then I enjoyed Nashville Skyline when it came out, at least for a
while, so I suspect we wouldn't agree on that one, either.
>The most annoying thing is that he recorded several really stunning
>songs at about the same time, and didn't see fit to release them.
>"Moonshine Blues" and "Tomorrow is a Long Time" blow away anything on
>_Times_, as does "Mr Tambourine Man"; and numerous other unreleased
>tracks are at least as good as, say, "Restless Farewell" -- "Percy's
>Song", "Guess I'm Doin Fine", "Seven Curses", "The Eternal Circle",
>etc.
Hmm. "Tomorrow is a Long Time," though pleasant, seems trivial to me.
Since it was readily available at the time in covers by Odetta, Judy
Collins, etc., I don't see it as a great loss that it wasn't available on
"Times." It probably predates "Times" enough that the argument should be
about it being on "Freewheelin'". "Tambourine Man," which started this
discussion, is one of the best, so it would have been nice to have heard
it earlier than "Bringing." I don't see "Percy's Song" as being in a
class with say, "Hattie Carroll" (both "courtroom" songs?). I don't recognize
the others cited, at least not by those titles.
Back to the original hypothesis, that
"Bob Dylan, protest singer, begins to seem like a bit
of an artificial creation."
seems to me hard to accept when he was so good at it. What would be the
motivation? Assuming popularity and/or some form of commercial success would
be the motive for the "artificial creation," he was too controversial to be
commercial. (Apparently someone thought "Let Me Die in My Footsteps" too
controversial for "Freewheelin'".)
Richard Shapiro
> I don't see "Percy's Song" as being in a
>class with say, "Hattie Carroll" (both "courtroom" songs?).
Well, different tastes. But the question of "courtroom" songs is
interesting. Just how many of these were there? "Seven Curses"
probably counts, though I'm not sure he wrote it (it's a folk'ish song
about a man wrongly condemned to death; his daughter makes a deal to
sleep with the judge if he'll free her father; she does, he doesn't,
the father is hung. This is available on various bootlegs in several
versions). "Hurricane", of course, is another one. Others?
>
>Back to the original hypothesis, that
>
> "Bob Dylan, protest singer, begins to seem like a bit
>of an artificial creation."
>
>seems to me hard to accept when he was so good at it. What would be the
>motivation? Assuming popularity and/or some form of commercial success would
>be the motive for the "artificial creation,"
No, nothing like that. I think it was an incidental part of his
repertoire that was briefly blown out of proportion. He was good at
it, and after the succes of "Blowin in the Wind", I think it was just
assumed by everyone (including him) that he was the leader of the
folk-protest genre. It became expected of him to write "serious"
songs about contemporary political issues, and for awhile he did it.
He may well have felt a moral obligation to continue this kind of
political activism. But it didn't last long at all, which I think
indicates that he did NOT want to be seen (as in fact he was seen) as
a protest singer. The peak was 1963, when _Times_ was recorded; by
1964 he had stopped writing these kinds of songs completely (and
remember that in 1962, "protest" songs were only a very small part of
his repertoire). He didn't like the expectations, or even, ultimately,
the songs very much.
David Chalmers
>interesting. Just how many of these were there? "Seven Curses"
>probably counts, though I'm not sure he wrote it (it's a folk'ish song
>about a man wrongly condemned to death; his daughter makes a deal to
>sleep with the judge if he'll free her father; she does, he doesn't,
>the father is hung. This is available on various bootlegs in several
>versions). "Hurricane", of course, is another one. Others?
Well, there's "Drifter's Escape". It's been suggested that this was
modelled on the courtroom scene in "Alice in Wonderland." True or
not, it's as clear a courtroom song as they come.
There's a judge in "Lily, Rosemary and the Jack of Hearts", but the
courtroom scene happens off-stage.
Then, of course, there's "When He Returns." :-)
--
Dave Chalmers (da...@cogsci.indiana.edu)
Concepts and Cognition, Indiana University.
"Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must make it all up."