Dylans opinion on bootlegs
Gerry N
"With all my records, there's been an abundance of material left over.
And other people seem to think they have some kind of right to it. You
don't drive a car out of the showroom witout paying for it, do you?
You don't leave the supermarket without passing through the checkout.
It's called stealing. Why the principle should be any diffrent when it
comes to music, I really don't know."
He seems to be pretty clear about these matters....
Gerry
Jim (Guitar Centre Records)
Theft indeed.
No comment from Bob about the live recordings. :0)
Jim
"Gerry N" <g...@excite.com> wrote in message
news:50klsvsue5l29e77r...@4ax.com...
capti...@webtv.net
"I STOPPED TRYING TO FIGURE OUT THINGS A LONG TIME AGO."
Tumulty
He's right, you know.
T.
Max
how irritating his fame is. He's against bootlegs on principle but probably
believes it's his lot because his fans are so strange. If he were neutral
or warm toward bootlegging he'd just sell recordings after the shows like
some other acts.
In fact, he'd probably be wise to sell show recordings at a small profit.
How complicated can it be? Bring 'em out warm like donuts (fans will wait)
and offer to mail more when you run out.
"Jim (Guitar Centre Records)" <J...@gcvinylrecords.co.uk> wrote in message
news:bqf8sl$egt$1...@sparta.btinternet.com...
Jperdue4
We arent trading records, theyre shows, theyre not being sold, theyre being
traded, theyre bringing more paying customers to his shows...nuthin wrong with
it...i notice he hasnt quit as a result..
JonP
tt
the bootleg situation".
I guess that's some kind of comment.
Jperdue4
I think hes wrong...I really think its the record company and not him that
stops shows from being sold legally like so many other bands now do..i dont
really think he cares as long as they arent being sold..He shouldnt care, its a
great benefit to him and his wallet....I stopped goin to bob shows in the mid
80s, untill i was given 3 or 4 newer shows, i was once again blown away and
have seen more shows between 88 and now than i ever did before..all because i
heard some bootleg live shows..
Jonp
tt
>
>We arent trading records, theyre shows, theyre not being sold, theyre being
>traded, theyre bringing more paying customers to his shows...nuthin wrong with
>it...i notice he hasnt quit as a result..
>JonP
Yes, but it keeps him from doing new material live, that's bad enough
I guess.
Alan Fraser
>I think hes wrong...I really think its the record company and not him that
>stops shows from being sold legally like so many other bands now do..i dont
>really think he cares as long as they arent being sold..He shouldnt care, its a
>great benefit to him and his wallet....I stopped goin to bob shows in the mid
>80s, untill i was given 3 or 4 newer shows, i was once again blown away and
>have seen more shows between 88 and now than i ever did before..all because i
>heard some bootleg live shows..
The record company hasn't stopped Bob from putting audience sourced
tracks on his web-site, and he's even released some of them for
promos, CD singles, bonus discs and compilations. List here:
Bobdylan.com:
http://www.searchingforagem.com/online.htm
Other online tracks:
http://www.searchingforagem.com/FieldRecs.htm
Alan
Jperdue4
No it doesnt...he plays new stuff every tour..
JonP
Gerry N
<alan....@boltblue.com> wrote:
>On 01 Dec 2003 16:03:06 GMT, jper...@aol.com (Jperdue4) wrote:
>
>>I think hes wrong...I really think its the record company and not him that
>>stops shows from being sold legally like so many other bands now do..i dont
>>really think he cares as long as they arent being sold..He shouldnt care, its a
>>great benefit to him and his wallet....I stopped goin to bob shows in the mid
>>80s, untill i was given 3 or 4 newer shows, i was once again blown away and
>>have seen more shows between 88 and now than i ever did before..all because i
>>heard some bootleg live shows..
>
>The record company hasn't stopped Bob from putting audience sourced
>tracks on his web-site, and he's even released some of them for
>promos, CD singles, bonus discs and compilations. List here:
>
Said the joker to the thief...
Gerry N
>>>JonP
>>
>>Yes, but it keeps him from doing new material live, that's bad enough
>>I guess.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>No it doesnt...he plays new stuff every tour..
>JonP
Wow, make us a list!
Gerry
Jperdue4
You do it..
JonP
John Howells
New stuff before it comes out on record?
--
John Howells
how...@punkhart.com
http://www.punkhart.com
Great North Woods
For many times he has mentioned that he does not like people
bootlegging his unofficial studio material. But has he ever said
anything about field recordings? i mean, is it possible that Dylan
makes a distinction between his (more or less privat) studio material
and his public perfomances?
Maybe he thinks his official studio recordings are just "another
performances"... but then, in addition, there is a trainload of
unreleased songs and rehearsal versions that he's never been playing
publicly -- and some of them really haven't completely reached their
form... like some early version(s) of Caribbean Wind during which he
couldn't decide how should he sing the chorus part.
Basically, I can understand that he doesn't want to show these things
anybody. If he want to, he can walk over the stage wearing a red suit
but he does not want us to see him dressing it.
jusa
Gerry N
>
>For many times he has mentioned that he does not like people
>bootlegging his unofficial studio material. But has he ever said
>anything about field recordings? i mean, is it possible that Dylan
>makes a distinction between his (more or less privat) studio material
>and his public perfomances?
>
>Maybe he thinks his official studio recordings are just "another
>performances"... but then, in addition, there is a trainload of
>unreleased songs and rehearsal versions that he's never been playing
>publicly -- and some of them really haven't completely reached their
>form... like some early version(s) of Caribbean Wind during which he
>couldn't decide how should he sing the chorus part.
>
>Basically, I can understand that he doesn't want to show these things
>anybody. If he want to, he can walk over the stage wearing a red suit
>but he does not want us to see him dressing it.
>
>jusa
In the NYT interview he told us that the taping of shows limits his
setlist. It would be nice if it didn't. Maybe Dylan should realize
that this battle is over and that he could give us some true surprises
at conserts. The thought that he would be flattered and proud over the
great interest that thousands of people pay his work, is still in vain
I guess. Dylan doesn't seem to care at all. His work and his life are
separate he told us in the Alan Jackson interview. I don't think he
really cares about what we think about him or his works. And that
might be part of the miracle.....
Gerry
Chris
> setlist.
Please.
How many people who currently attend a Bob Dylan concert have ever heard,
much less bought or traded, a bootleg?
And of those who have, if he were to play all new material live, how many
would say "No thanks, I won't be purchasing tht new studio album, as I
already have an inferior sounding live copy of those songs."
Bob's just nuts.
harry haller
agreed.he's speaking about material from records.he should be the
one to decide which new songs got out.The shows,that's
different,maybe.each person who loves the music has to decide.i doubt
that the practise will stop
J Buck
heard, much less bought or traded, a bootleg? And of those who have, if
he were to play all new material live, how many would say "No thanks, I
sounding live copy of those songs."
Bob's just nuts.>
Agree 100%, except for the 'Bob's just nuts' line
Debra Lind
remember right he has mentioned that new songs are still evolving and
unfinished. But once they have been recorded, even an audience tape, he
looses interest in developing the song.
Dwolf0823
Huh? He might change the set lists, but it's been a long time since Dylan
played something from an album before the album is released.
dsw
Dwolf0823
Then what accounts for the constant rearrangements of songs whose live versions
have been widely bootlegged over the years?
He has indeed said that album versions are "blueprints." I just don't
understand or accept your thesis that Dylan loses interest once a song is
bootlegged. First, there's a myriad of evidence to the contrary, and, second,
it's illogical to say that he loses interest only when his *new* songs are
audience-recorded (which they all eventually are anyway, just look at the live
versions of songs from Love and Theft), while apparently still maintaining
interest in developing older songs that have similarly been audience-captured.
dsw
Tumulty
>
> We arent trading records, theyre shows, theyre not being sold, theyre being
> traded, theyre bringing more paying customers to his shows...nuthin wrong with
> it...i notice he hasnt quit as a result..
> JonP
So you consider it your property? Just curious.
T.
a.percy
live, well, I don't believe him.
Bob's the most bootlegged artist bar none. Presley and The Beatles are way
behind.
How come therefore, did he perform all but one new song from Love And Theft
only weeks after the album's release?
'Cos he knows his REAL fans will buy his album anyway (and get the bootlegs)
and your average punter will maybe go to a show or hear some tracks on the
radio before they decide to buy the album. Don't forget, Bob's album sales
don't work the same way as most other artists. His albums sell and sell for
decades, not a matter of weeks.
Also, Love And Theft was the first album since way back that he actually
bothered to show-case properly.
I think he's taking the piss out of his interviewer.
Cheers,
Andrew
Gerry N <g...@excite.com> wrote in message
news:50klsvsue5l29e77r...@4ax.com...
Dwolf0823
>For Bob to say that bootlegs have/are preventing him from doing new songs
>live, well, I don't believe him.
....
>How come therefore, did he perform all but one new song from Love And Theft
>only weeks after the album's release?
Because we're talking about Bob choosing not to play new songs *before* the
album is released.
How come he didn't play *any* Love and Theft songs before the album was
released on that unforgettable day in September 2001? Or Time Out of Mind
songs before TooM was released?
dsw
Debra Lind
remember where I saw it though. It may have been right before L&T came
out. I agree it doesn't make a lot of sense since he is always changing
things around.
Max
"Dwolf0823" <dwol...@aol.commonstock> wrote in message
news:20031201181451...@mb-m23.aol.com...
Jperdue4
Then, his argument kinda falls flat...
JonP
Jperdue4
Consider what my property?..My albums, well, yes, my cdrs..yes they're mine
also...Bob doesnt allow taping so alot of us..lol..i mean alot of us are
breaking the law...
JonP
Jperdue4
Me and The Grateful Dead had a good laugh it this..
:)
JonP
Jperdue4
Addendum, Jerry Garcia is probably the most bootlegged individual artist. All
the dead shows, all the solo bands he had etc..The bluegrass bands, the stuff
he played on others albums etc...
JonP
John Howells
<For Bob to say that bootlegs have/are preventing him from doing new songs
<live, well, I don't believe him.
<Bob's the most bootlegged artist bar none. Presley and The Beatles are way
<behind.
<How come therefore, did he perform all but one new song from Love And Theft
<only weeks after the album's release?
<'Cos he knows his REAL fans will buy his album anyway (and get the bootlegs)
<and your average punter will maybe go to a show or hear some tracks on the
<radio before they decide to buy the album. Don't forget, Bob's album sales
<don't work the same way as most other artists. His albums sell and sell for
<decades, not a matter of weeks.
<Also, Love And Theft was the first album since way back that he actually
<bothered to show-case properly.
<I think he's taking the piss out of his interviewer.
No, no, no, no, no. You guys have it all wrong. The issue is new songs
performed *before* they show up on an album. He used to do new songs,
that is songs that no one had ever heard before, all the time up
until around 14 years ago. The last time he played a song that hadn't
been officially released yet was "Wiggle Wiggle". He didn't perform
a single song from Time Out of Mind until the very day of its release.
He didn't play any of the Love and Theft songs live until after the
album had already been released.
Of course he plays the hell out of them once they've been released,
but not before. We will probably never hear another sneak preview
out of Bob ever again, and it's because (he claims) of bootleggers.
Dwolf0823
I remember the interview with the blueprint line. I'm pretty sure it was an
interview around the time of TooM's release in 1997.
I don't remember Dylan saying that he loses interest in developing songs,
though. But we're talking more than five years ago, so my memory might not be
serving me well.
Regardless, the statement defies logic, because Dylan essentially would be
saying that he rearranges all his work except the songs that God forbid escape
before commercially released. If that happens, well, he loses interest in
developing the song. It just doesn't make sense to me.
Maybe as some form of punishment to his fans it would make sense (although it
would still be an extreme overreaction), but he doesn't even do it in practice.
For instance, Dignity was widely circulated as an "Oh Mercy" outtake, and yet
Dylan still played it (rearranged) pretty much on a regular basis on some
tours.
My guess is that Dylan does not appreciate his concerts being taped and
circulated, but that he accepts it as inevitable. And, for his own reasons,
whatever they are, he doesn't want his new songs circulated before they are
released. The only way for that not to happen is for Dylan not to play the
songs until they're released.
To some extent, he still loses the game, because the albums get circulated
before their release dates. I had TooM for at least three weeks before it was
released, and got L&T early, too (and I'm forever grateful for that, because I
can't even think of what it would be like to start listening to the album on or
near its release date, September 11, 2001).
I don't believe he loses the money game, however, because diehards who
circulate the albums before they're released are going to buy them commercially
anyway.
I could conceive of a scenario where the album is so bad that even the
die-hards won't buy it after getting it early. Even in this situation, Dylan
still wins, because we would have ended up pissed at ourselves and Dylan for
having shelled out money for crap. As Eminem said with respect to buying and
listening to a Britney Spears album: "What's this bitch, retarded? Give me
back my sixteen dollars!"
dsw
a.percy
Dwolf0823 <dwol...@aol.commonstock> wrote in message
Point taken dsw,
But when was the last time that he did? the `75 part of the rolling thunder
revue, before Desire came out?
Dwolf0823
Not that far back; I believe Under the Red Sky was the last time he did.
dsw
robertandrews
>'Cos he knows his REAL fans will buy his album anyway
Are those the same fans who bemoan our materialistic culture?
robertandrews
>As Eminem said with respect to buying and listening to a Britney Spears
album: "What's this bitch, retarded? Give me
back my sixteen dollars!"
Richard Thompson is a Britney fan. He covered Oops I Did It Again.
Eminem has said a lot of stupid things. So has Bob Dylan.
Jperdue4
i dont think that means he "likes" her..maybe wants to bang her, but like
her?...
JonP
Rib O'flavin
"robertandrews" <robert...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:WPRyb.42863$ZV6....@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...
> "Dwolf0823" <dwol...@aol.commonstock> wrote:
> >As Eminem said with respect to buying and listening to a Britney Spears
> album: "What's this bitch, retarded? Give me
> back my sixteen dollars!"
>
> Richard Thompson is a Britney fan. He covered Oops I Did It Again.
I don't think she wrote that song.
Jperdue4
Date: 12/1/03 6:46:32 PM Pacific Standard Time
From: a.p...@ntlworld.com (a.percy)
Reply-to: a.p...@ntlworld.com (a.percy)
To: jper...@aol.com (Jperdue4)
----- Original Message -----
From: Jperdue4 <jper...@aol.com>
Newsgroups: rec.music.dylan
Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 12:51 AM
Subject: Re: Dylans opinion on bootlegs
> >>Bob's the most bootlegged artist bar none.
> >
> >Me and The Grateful Dead had a good laugh it this..
> >:)
> >JonP
>
> Addendum, Jerry Garcia is probably the most bootlegged individual artist.
All
> the dead shows, all the solo bands he had etc..The bluegrass bands, the
stuff
> he played on others albums etc...
> JonP
Oh you may jest Jonp, but....
Discount the stuff that Jerry played on other albums.
Strickly speaking any unlawful copies of an official album is what's known
as a "Pirate", not a bootleg.
The Grateful Dead? Popular in certain circles, I agree, but not on the same
global basis as his Bobness.
Go to any record fair anywhere and see how the Dylan sections compare to
anyone else in sheer quantity.
Compare the size scale of venues Bob fills regularly through the world,
compared to the Dead's college campus circuit.
Bob's huge in Asia and not just Japan. I know 'cos I worked there for years.
Bootlegs galore can easily be bought in normal retail stores. They don't
care over there. The Grateful Dead - they've never heard of them, so that's
two thirds of the planet.
There's very few shows of Bob's that hav'nt been recorded by fans and I'm
certain he's played considerably more shows from 1961 to date than the Dead
etc.
Do I have to look out Tangled Up In Tapes and count them all?
Cheers,
Andrew
"That's just what i need...
a good woman to kick
my butt now and then"
Jperdue4
>as a "Pirate", not a bootleg.
Im not sure i mentioned pirate copies at all..
>The Grateful Dead? Popular in certain circles, I agree, but not on the same
>global basis as his Bobness.
We werent talking popularity, were talking bootlegged performances...
>Go to any record fair anywhere and see how the Dylan sections compare to
>anyone else in sheer quantity.
So there are more unscrupoulous dyalan fans than dead fans..Dead fans do not
tolerate selling bootlegs...>Compare the size scale of venues Bob fills
regularly through the world,
>compared to the Dead's college campus circuit.
lol...your ignorance is showing...the dead havent played a college since around
1970-71...i may be forgretting one somewhere..
>Bob's huge in Asia and not just Japan. I know 'cos I worked there for years.
>Bootlegs galore can easily be bought in normal retail stores. They don't
>care over there.
Once again your confusing bootlegged shows to popularity in ..japan?..
.> The Grateful Dead - they've never heard of them, so that's
>two thirds of the planet.
And they still have played more shows and have had most all of them
recorded...once again popularity/bootlegged shows..
>There's very few shows of Bob's that hav'nt been recorded by fans and I'm
>certain he's played considerably more shows from 1961 to date than the Dead
>etc.
Nope....By the way, i thought we were talking individual performers...in that
case i satnd by my claim that Jerry Garcia is the most recorded/bootlegged
performer ever....keep in mind he died in 95....but the dead still carry
on...so if you want you can still count their shows if we're talkin bands
here...By the way i LOVE LOVE LOVE Bob Dylan...
>Do I have to look out Tangled Up In Tapes and count them all?
>
>Cheers,
>Andrew
Sure thing!...go for it, lets see what we come up with...
cheers!
JonP
frinjdwelr
"Great North Woods" <greatno...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c12b2aa5.03120...@posting.google.com...
> Gerry N <g...@excite.com> wrote in message
news:<50klsvsue5l29e77r...@4ax.com>...
> > Dylan in interview by Alan Jackson in The Times
> >
> > "With all my records, there's been an abundance of material left over.
> > And other people seem to think they have some kind of right to it. You
> > don't drive a car out of the showroom witout paying for it, do you?
> > You don't leave the supermarket without passing through the checkout.
> > It's called stealing. Why the principle should be any diffrent when it
> > comes to music, I really don't know."
> >
> > He seems to be pretty clear about these matters....
> >
> > Gerry
>
> bootlegging his unofficial studio material. But has he ever said
> anything about field recordings? i mean, is it possible that Dylan
> makes a distinction between his (more or less privat) studio material
> and his public perfomances?
>
No, I don't think he splits such hairs. He's against all bootlegging(of
himself anyway) on principle. Over the years his comments have varied from
nasty and bitter to cynical and resentful, but never positive -with the
single exception of that one line in L&T. Even then he sneaked it in an
interpretable lyric.
But I do postulate that Dwolf is right in that Bob has come to accept that
the taping as inevitable. So being practical, he's conceded to a bit of "if
you can't lick'em..." As Alan has pointed out, he's surely given his ok to
how "his people" have solicited tapers, used their material, and on
occasion even allowed for a semiofficial audience taper.
>
> Basically, I can understand that he doesn't want to show these things
> anybody. If he want to, he can walk over the stage wearing a red suit
> but he does not want us to see him dressing it.
>
> jusa
If I understand this correctly, I think it's a crucial distinction. It's
not the money. It's the control. He wants to have THE say over his own
work. No ifs, ands or buts. It's part of why he rarely does well guesting
on other people's shows. I think he'd have to admit that "some of the
bootleggers make pretty good stuff" now that he's heard some of it. But he
still wants to be the one to decide what gets out, even while knowing it's
hopelessly impossible.
There was an incident some years ago where a couple of his band members were
listening to a field recording one of us had given them when Bob walked in.
His first reaction was an indignant "what the fuck?" But that was
immediately followed by his retreating from the room with his hands over his
ears saying "never mind I don't want to know."
I think that's how it is. He resents all the taping and trading, and if
pressed, he'll fight it. But if it's kept low key, it can slip under the
door where he's come to terms with it as a potentially positive part of his
legacy.
Jperdue4
From: Jperdue4 <jper...@aol.com>
Newsgroups: rec.music.dylan
Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 12:51 AM
Subject: Re: Dylans opinion on bootlegs
> >>Bob's the most bootlegged artist bar none.
> >
> >Me and The Grateful Dead had a good laugh it this..
> >:)
> >JonP
>
> Addendum, Jerry Garcia is probably the most bootlegged individual artist.
All
> the dead shows, all the solo bands he had etc..The bluegrass bands, the
stuff
> he played on others albums etc...
> JonP
Oh you may jest Jonp, but....
Discount the stuff that Jerry played on other albums.
Strickly speaking any unlawful copies of an official album is what's known
as a "Pirate", not a bootleg.
The Grateful Dead? Popular in certain circles, I agree, but not on the same
global basis as his Bobness.
Go to any record fair anywhere and see how the Dylan sections compare to
anyone else in sheer quantity.
Compare the size scale of venues Bob fills regularly through the world,
compared to the Dead's college campus circuit.
Bob's huge in Asia and not just Japan. I know 'cos I worked there for years.
Bootlegs galore can easily be bought in normal retail stores. They don't
care over there. The Grateful Dead - they've never heard of them, so that's
two thirds of the planet.
There's very few shows of Bob's that hav'nt been recorded by fans and I'm
certain he's played considerably more shows from 1961 to date than the Dead
etc.
a.percy
> "a.percy" <a.p...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> >'Cos he knows his REAL fans will buy his album anyway
>
> Are those the same fans who bemoan our materialistic culture?
Good question Robert, there's bound to be some fans who do.
Not me though, I've never not bought an album because of a bad review (and
Bob's had his fair share of bad reviews), or having witnessed a not so good
show, or heard a lousy bootleg etc. I've never thought of Bob's official
records being in competition with any bootleg. OK, maybe Kissing Guitars
versus Bootleg Vol 5 Live 66. I'll take the former anyday.
I read an article with Bob's manager, Rosen, maybe last year I think. He was
saying along the lines that Bob never reads anything about himself, never
looks at a fan web-site, can't even work a pc.
Bob gets all his info fed to him from his clique who are all on a payroll.
They're for sure not going to talk up anything ie bootlegs that don't make
any revenue are they? It's basic business strategy isn't it? There's a
number of very wealthy people with huge investments in Columbia corporation.
How can you expect Bob to publicly endorse a product that has no rewards,
without doing himself some serious financial damage. He risks spoiling his
own business investments (that we don't hear about) with these same people
who invest with him in a multiplicity of enterprises.
Oh to be wealthy!
Cheers,
Andrew
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
sles...@verizon.net
>
>He's right, you know.
>T.
yea, he is right, but still, it's a little unseemly when a fat cat
zillioniares like Dylan and Metallica make a big issue about
it. now if say, steve forbert said, it that would be another thing.
it's a tad ironic for dylan - well know for stealing the records
of friends and aquaintances in his younger days to be saying it.
but he is of course right....
steve
volkfolk
"Jperdue4" <jper...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20031201214954...@mb-m20.aol.com...
College Campus circuit? Your joking right? The Dead are the most successful
touring act of all time. They hold (held?) the record for the most sold out
shows at Madison Square Garden, The Spectrum in Philadelphia and probably
lots of other large venues. The did very well touring Europe as well. Check
out box office grosses from the late 80's -95' The Dead were consistently in
the top 2 or 3 concert acts in overall earnings
> Bob's huge in Asia and not just Japan. I know 'cos I worked there for
years.
> Bootlegs galore can easily be bought in normal retail stores. They don't
> care over there. The Grateful Dead - they've never heard of them, so
that's
> two thirds of the planet.
> There's very few shows of Bob's that hav'nt been recorded by fans and I'm
> certain he's played considerably more shows from 1961 to date than the
Dead
The Dead played approximately 100-150 shows per year from 1967-1995. That
doesn't count Jerry Garcia Band shows or side projects from other band
members. When you consider the fact that the Dead actually encouraged their
fans to record their show and Bob is on the record as not condoning audience
taping and actively trys to stop it, I would be very surprised to find out
that there are more Audience "Bootleg" recordings of Bob D than the Dead
Scot
J Buck
beat to shit Yugo
a.percy
> >Strickly speaking any unlawful copies of an official album is what's
known
> >as a "Pirate", not a bootleg.
>
> Im not sure i mentioned pirate copies at all..
Well you did kind of, by referring to all the sessions Jerry did on other's
albums that in turn get copied and distributed amongst fans. Eg I sure never
bought a Doug Sahm or a David Blue album, but I've got copies of the tracks.
That's a pirate.
>
>
> >The Grateful Dead? Popular in certain circles, I agree, but not on the
same
> >global basis as his Bobness.
>
>
> We werent talking popularity, were talking bootlegged performances...
Why would Bob have less shows recorded by audiences than the Dead? Just
because the Dead had a tapers section doesn't mean they're not taped. We'll
have to count all known recordings.
>
>
> >Go to any record fair anywhere and see how the Dylan sections compare to
> >anyone else in sheer quantity.
>
> So there are more unscrupoulous dyalan fans than dead fans..Dead fans do
not
> tolerate selling bootlegs...
No obviously not, that's why they're all expected to shell out for the
latest double/triple cd of a live show almost every month care of Dick's
Picks volumes to infinity series. A total disgrace if you ask me.
>Compare the size scale of venues Bob fills
> regularly through the world,
> >compared to the Dead's college campus circuit.
>
> lol...your ignorance is showing...the dead havent played a college since
around
> 1970-71...i may be forgretting one somewhere..
OK, give it another name closer to your choice.
The last time I saw the Dead was at the Rainbow in London about 1980. The
Rainbow held about 1500 people.
>
> >Bob's huge in Asia and not just Japan. I know 'cos I worked there for
years.
> >Bootlegs galore can easily be bought in normal retail stores. They don't
> >care over there.
>
> Once again your confusing bootlegged shows to popularity in ..japan?..
Yes Japan (which has dedicated record stores selling ONLY Bob Dylan records
with huge selections of bootlegs) and Malaysia, Indonesia (4th largest
country inthe world), Singapore....
>
> .> The Grateful Dead - they've never heard of them, so that's
> >two thirds of the planet.
>
> And they still have played more shows and have had most all of them
> recorded...once again popularity/bootlegged shows..
But so are Bob's mostly recorded. I only have info up to 1998. But from 1961
to end `98 Bob had played at least 1,706 shows. From `75 to `92 only 30
shows were missing, bearing in mind this info is now 5 years old, it's safe
to assume a few of these will have turned up.
>
> >There's very few shows of Bob's that hav'nt been recorded by fans and I'm
> >certain he's played considerably more shows from 1961 to date than the
Dead
> >etc.
>
> Nope....By the way, i thought we were talking individual performers...in
that
> case i satnd by my claim that Jerry Garcia is the most recorded/bootlegged
> performer ever....keep in mind he died in 95....but the dead still carry
> on...so if you want you can still count their shows if we're talkin bands
> here...By the way i LOVE LOVE LOVE Bob Dylan...
The Dead with Jerry Garcia, no way, that's like The Beatles without John
Lennon or the Stones without Jagger.
Behave yourself! You're cheating now.
>
> >Do I have to look out Tangled Up In Tapes and count them all?
> >
> >Cheers,
> >Andrew
>
> Sure thing!...go for it, lets see what we come up with...
> cheers!
> JonP
Well I'll need some help from others here `cos I've only got info up to end
`98.
So it's 1,706 plus the last 5 years. So can someone add up the last 5 years
please.
Later,
Andrew
Jperdue4
>beat to shit Yugo
>
>
>
>
best shows of his life...
JonP
a.percy
volkfolk <volk...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:DTTyb.277060$275.991999@attbi_s53...
Scot, what promoter in his right mind would put an act in a venue like MSG
or The Spectrum and not expect it to sell out? The Dead were only of any
consequence at all in the USA. Put it this way, their most successful album
In The Dark (and I wish they'd kept it there `cos it's terrible) since Blues
For Allah, peaked in US at no.6, whereas, in their 2nd most popular region,
the UK, the album got to a dizzy 57. Says it all doesn't it. The Dead were
not too big a deal outwith USA. Throughout their time only 4 of their albums
even got in the top 100 in UK.
The biggest box office earners from late `80's to `95? Where in the states
only? Certainly nor anywhere else.
Where were they in box office results when Led Zeppelin, The Who and the
Stones were really going for it?
What about Pink Floyd, Rolling Stones, Elton John, Phil Collins with huge
sell-out global tours during this period.
But I realise this is not the point. A tally needs taken.
Cheers,
Andrew
peter et nathalie Joos-Laeng
before playing 'Is Your Love In Vain' on the Budokan Live Album. Knowing
some people might have heard it before.
"a.percy" <a.p...@ntlworld.com> a écrit dans le message de
news:nxRyb.1934$KF3.1...@newsfep1-win.server.ntli.net...
J Buck
beat to shit Yugo>
<<I wouldnt call dylan beat to shit yugo, have you heard him
lately?..Doin the best shows of his life...>>
Read it again, in order. You have things backward, unless your post was
tongue in cheek. Just to clarify, I'd rather listen to my dog yip for 30
minutes during a 'chasing the bunny' dream than 30 seconds of a grateful
dead song.
But hey, if you like 'em...different strokes, etc.
Jperdue4
>>
>> Im not sure i mentioned pirate copies at all..
>Well you did kind of, by referring to all the sessions Jerry did on other's
>albums that in turn get copied and distributed amongst fans. Eg I sure never
>bought a Doug Sahm or a David Blue album, but I've got copies of the tracks.
>That's a pirate.
Yeah, see, thats really frowned on in dead circles..I mentioned studio stuff as
i was claiming that Jerry Garcia is maybe the most recorded artist of all
time...I stand by that claim...
>> >The Grateful Dead? Popular in certain circles, I agree, but not on the
>same
>> >global basis as his Bobness.
>>
>>
>> We werent talking popularity, were talking bootlegged performances...
>Why would Bob have less shows recorded by audiences than the Dead? Just
>because the Dead had a tapers section doesn't mean they're not taped. We'll
>have to count all known recordings.
>>
Because he played fewer shows?..The deads shows have been recorded and
circulated since @january of 1966....Im not sure i understand your question....
>> >Go to any record fair anywhere and see how the Dylan sections compare to
>> >anyone else in sheer quantity.
>>
>> So there are more unscrupoulous dyalan fans than dead fans..Dead fans do
>not
>> tolerate selling bootlegs...
>No obviously not, that's why they're all expected to shell out for the
>latest double/triple cd of a live show almost every month care of Dick's
>Picks volumes to infinity series. A total disgrace if you ask me.
Dix pix sell for around 18 bucks for a three disc set....No one is expected to
do anything of the sort, the dixpix series is aimed at the casual dead
collector and not the rest of us...Everything theyeve released except for the
new one has been circulating forever....None of the dix are complete
shows...Believe me, i dont dig the dixpix series either...I dont think they
should be selling shows previously circulated for free, but thats just me, and
they sell the hell out of them so someone digs them..I guess theres just not
the demand for live dylan stuff...
.>>Compare the size scale of venues Bob fills
>> regularly through the world,
>> >compared to the Dead's college campus circuit.
>>
>> lol...your ignorance is showing...the dead havent played a college since
>around
>> 1970-71...i may be forgretting one somewhere..
>
>OK, give it another name closer to your choice.
>The last time I saw the Dead was at the Rainbow in London about 1980. The
>Rainbow held about 1500 people.
Give what another name?...College?.......Wow you saw them at the London
Theater... NICE!....Im truly envious.....That run was 10-2-81, 10-3-81,
10-4-81,10-6-81....Some really nice stuff from that run..Do you know the exact
date or maybe the day of the week you saw them?.I may have a copy of the show
for you.....
>> >Bob's huge in Asia and not just Japan. I know 'cos I worked there for
>years.
>> >Bootlegs galore can easily be bought in normal retail stores. They don't
>> >care over there.
>>
>> Once again your confusing bootlegged shows to popularity in ..japan?..
>
>Yes Japan (which has dedicated record stores selling ONLY Bob Dylan records
>with huge selections of bootlegs) and Malaysia, Indonesia (4th largest
>country inthe world), Singapore....
Unbelieveable..And this is a good thiing to you?....You wonder why bob doesnt
dig his shows being recorded?....We trade them for free, thereby taking the
profit out of it for douches like this...
>> .> The Grateful Dead - they've never heard of them, so that's
>> >two thirds of the planet.
>>
>> And they still have played more shows and have had most all of them
>> recorded...once again popularity/bootlegged shows..
>
>But so are Bob's mostly recorded. I only have info up to 1998. But from 1961
>to end `98 Bob had played at least 1,706 shows. From `75 to `92 only 30
>shows were missing, bearing in mind this info is now 5 years old, it's safe
>to assume a few of these will have turned up.
>>
Between 1965 and 1995 The Grateful Dead played 2,314 shows, 36,534 songs, 484
different songs....This is without the Jerry Garcia solo bands that played
between 1971 and 1995 that played somewere around 800-1000 shows...:)...This
does not count him sitting in on other bands shows that circulate....Keep in
mind..The Dead are still touring as we speak...But we were talking Garcia....
>> >There's very few shows of Bob's that hav'nt been recorded by fans and I'm
>> >certain he's played considerably more shows from 1961 to date than the
>Dead
>> >etc.
>>
>> Nope....By the way, i thought we were talking individual performers...in
>that
>> case i satnd by my claim that Jerry Garcia is the most recorded/bootlegged
>> performer ever....keep in mind he died in 95....but the dead still carry
>> on...so if you want you can still count their shows if we're talkin bands
>> here...By the way i LOVE LOVE LOVE Bob Dylan
>The Dead with Jerry Garcia, no way, that's like The Beatles without John
>Lennon or the Stones without Jagger.
>Behave yourself! You're cheating now.
I said in the original post that Jerry was the most recorded bootlegged
performer ever..It was a response to your claim that Bob Dylan is the most
bootlegged performer period...
>> >Do I have to look out Tangled Up In Tapes and count them all?
>> >
>> >Cheers,
>> >Andrew
>>
>> Sure thing!...go for it, lets see what we come up with...
>> cheers!
>> JonP
>
>Well I'll need some help from others here `cos I've only got info up to end
>`98.
>So it's 1,706 plus the last 5 years. So can someone add up the last 5 years
>please.
>
>Later,
>Andrew
>
>
JonP
Bob Dylan, who recorded a 1988 album with the Dead, said Garcia inspired him.
''To me he wasn't only a musician and friend, he was more like a big brother
who taught and showed me more than he'll ever know,'' Dylan said. ''His playing
was moody, awesome, sophisticated, hypnotic and subtle. There's no way to
convey the loss. It just digs down really deep.''
"There's no way to measure his greatness or magnitude as a person or as a
player," Bob Dylan wrote in a statement. "He was that great, much more than a
superb musician with an uncanny ear and dexterity .
Bob Dylan's eulogy for Jerry Garcia:
"There's no way to measure his greatness or magnitude as a person or as a
player. I don't think eulogizing will do him justice. He was that great - much
more than a superb musician with an uncanny ear and dexterity. He is the very
spirit personified of whatever is muddy river country at its core and screams
up into the spheres. He really had no equal. To me he wasn't only a musician
and friend, he was more like a big brother who taught and showed me more than
he'll ever know. There are a lot of spaces and advances between the Carter
Family, Buddy Holly and, say, Ornette Coleman, a lot of universes, but he
filled them all without being a member of any school. His playing was moody,
awesome, sophisticated, hypnotic and subtle. <<...>> There's no way to convey
the loss. It just digs down really deep." - Bob Dylan
Jperdue4
>beat to shit Yugo
>
>
>
>
>
Bob Dylan's eulogy for Jerry Garcia:
"There's no way to measure his greatness or magnitude as a person or as a
player. I don't think eulogizing will do him justice. He was that great - much
more than a superb musician with an uncanny ear and dexterity. He is the very
spirit personified of whatever is muddy river country at its core and screams
up into the spheres. He really had no equal. To me he wasn't only a musician
and friend, he was more like a big brother who taught and showed me more than
he'll ever know. There are a lot of spaces and advances between the Carter
Family, Buddy Holly and, say, Ornette Coleman, a lot of universes, but he
filled them all without being a member of any school. His playing was moody,
awesome, sophisticated, hypnotic and subtle. <<...>> There's no way to convey
the loss. It just digs down really deep." - Bob Dylan
grtflmark
> >Gerry N <g...@excite.com> wrote in message
> >news:<50klsvsue5l29e77r...@4ax.com>...
> >> Dylan in interview by Alan Jackson in The Times
> >>
> >> "With all my records, there's been an abundance of material left over.
> >> And other people seem to think they have some kind of right to it. You
> >> don't drive a car out of the showroom witout paying for it, do you?
> >> You don't leave the supermarket without passing through the checkout.
> >> It's called stealing. Why the principle should be any diffrent when it
> >> comes to music, I really don't know."
> >>
> >> He seems to be pretty clear about these matters....
> >
> >
> >T.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> stops shows from being sold legally like so many other bands now do..i dont
> really think he cares as long as they arent being sold..He shouldnt care, its a
> great benefit to him and his wallet....I stopped goin to bob shows in the mid
> 80s, untill i was given 3 or 4 newer shows, i was once again blown away and
> have seen more shows between 88 and now than i ever did before..all because i
> heard some bootleg live shows..
> Jonp
The Dead are the most "bootlegged" musical group ever - and the most
documented
band in the history of music. This was stated in "Time" and "Rolling
Stone"
magazines a few years ago (so, it must be true!).....How many other
bands
have 10 Volumes of Books documenting their performances (DeadBase)? I
have yet to search for a copy of a show in any of these volumes that
is not available.
This is not to mention the "Dead Taper's Compendium" series of books -
which
rates each show....stultifying documentation!! This is pretty good
basis,
evidence and support for the following statement: Yes - The Dead are
the
most bootlegged and documented band in history - and until physical
evidence to
contrary is presented - I have no reason to doubt that.
a.percy
> >> >as a "Pirate", not a bootleg.
> >>
> >> Im not sure i mentioned pirate copies at all..
>
> >Well you did kind of, by referring to all the sessions Jerry did on
other's
> >albums that in turn get copied and distributed amongst fans. Eg I sure
never
> >bought a Doug Sahm or a David Blue album, but I've got copies of the
tracks.
> >That's a pirate.
>
> Yeah, see, thats really frowned on in dead circles..I mentioned studio
stuff as
> i was claiming that Jerry Garcia is maybe the most recorded artist of all
> time...I stand by that claim...
AP- Maybe the most recorded member of the Grateful Dead. But in real terms
do you think he recorded more material than say Elvis Presley, Frank Sinatra
or Johnny Cash for example. I doubt very much if he did. The Dead only made
approx 12 studio albums, Jerry (himself) about half that. All the rest are
countless live releases full of covers of other's songs. Not very impressive
in that respect, as it's a very easy option, takes a lot less effort than to
write and record some 30 studio albums like Bob has.. I've always felt short
changed when a live album is released, where with a little more effort from
those involved it could maybe of been a new studio record. It does help if
you're able to write great songs, something the Dead never mastered. Good
musicians they were/are, song writers not.
>
>
> >> >The Grateful Dead? Popular in certain circles, I agree, but not on the
> >same
> >> >global basis as his Bobness.
> >>
> >>
> >> We werent talking popularity, were talking bootlegged performances...
>
>
>
> >Why would Bob have less shows recorded by audiences than the Dead? Just
> >because the Dead had a tapers section doesn't mean they're not taped.
We'll
> >have to count all known recordings.
> >>
>
> Because he played fewer shows?..The deads shows have been recorded and
> circulated since @january of 1966....Im not sure i understand your
question....
AP- Bob's have been circulated since 1961 because that's when he started
playing shows.. The Dead formed in `65, so it would have to start about then
wouldn't it. There certainly not the only artists that have been bootlegged
continuously since their offset.
>
>
> >> >Go to any record fair anywhere and see how the Dylan sections compare
to
> >> >anyone else in sheer quantity.
> >>
> >> So there are more unscrupoulous dyalan fans than dead fans..Dead fans
do
> >not
> >> tolerate selling bootlegs...
> >No obviously not, that's why they're all expected to shell out for the
> >latest double/triple cd of a live show almost every month care of Dick's
> >Picks volumes to infinity series. A total disgrace if you ask me.
>
>
> Dix pix sell for around 18 bucks for a three disc set....No one is
expected to
> do anything of the sort, the dixpix series is aimed at the casual dead
> collector and not the rest of us...Everything theyeve released except for
the
> new one has been circulating forever....None of the dix are complete
> shows...Believe me, i dont dig the dixpix series either...I dont think
they
> should be selling shows previously circulated for free, but thats just me,
and
> they sell the hell out of them so someone digs them..I guess theres just
not
> the demand for live dylan stuff...
AP- You can double your 18 dollar price for the rest of the world. You think
the Dick's Picks series is for casual fans?
I think not. What's casual about buying a double or triple live album by the
same band every month? That ridiculous. At least these buyers are getting
hopefully a better quality recording that the vine tapes can offer, but 38
bucks isn't casual. Now it's DVD too, so you Deadheads are really getting
screwed for your hard earned cash. It's such a cynical enterprise. Someone
once said to me "The Grateful Dead are a band of the peole", my arse they
are. The Grateful Dead Great Pension Fund more like.
>
>
>
> .>>Compare the size scale of venues Bob fills
> >> regularly through the world,
> >> >compared to the Dead's college campus circuit.
> >>
> >> lol...your ignorance is showing...the dead havent played a college
since
> >around
> >> 1970-71...i may be forgretting one somewhere..
> >
>
>
> >OK, give it another name closer to your choice.
> >The last time I saw the Dead was at the Rainbow in London about 1980. The
> >Rainbow held about 1500 people.
>
> Give what another name?...College?.......Wow you saw them at the London
> Theater... NICE!....Im truly envious.....That run was 10-2-81, 10-3-81,
> 10-4-81,10-6-81....Some really nice stuff from that run..Do you know the
exact
> date or maybe the day of the week you saw them?.I may have a copy of the
show
> for you.....
AP- I saw them the night they played an acoustic set for about 5 hours.
Thankfully I could lie on the floor!
>
>
>
> >> >Bob's huge in Asia and not just Japan. I know 'cos I worked there for
> >years.
> >> >Bootlegs galore can easily be bought in normal retail stores. They
don't
> >> >care over there.
> >>
> >> Once again your confusing bootlegged shows to popularity in ..japan?..
> >
> >Yes Japan (which has dedicated record stores selling ONLY Bob Dylan
records
> >with huge selections of bootlegs) and Malaysia, Indonesia (4th largest
> >country inthe world), Singapore....
>
>
> Unbelieveable..And this is a good thiing to you?....You wonder why bob
doesnt
> dig his shows being recorded?....We trade them for free, thereby taking
the
> profit out of it for douches like this...
AP- There's a mighty number of douches out there. But, if bootlegs are going
to exist, it's better in the hands of specialists who do a good job than
rogue traders at a fair who you'll never see again. At least the buyer can
take something back to the shop he's not happy with. In Tokyo, you'll also
find stores dedicated to Led Zeppelin, The Beatles etc.
>
> >> .> The Grateful Dead - they've never heard of them, so that's
> >> >two thirds of the planet.
> >>
>
>
> >> And they still have played more shows and have had most all of them
> >> recorded...once again popularity/bootlegged shows..
>
>
> >
> >But so are Bob's mostly recorded. I only have info up to 1998. But from
1961
> >to end `98 Bob had played at least 1,706 shows. From `75 to `92 only 30
> >shows were missing, bearing in mind this info is now 5 years old, it's
safe
> >to assume a few of these will have turned up.
> >>
>
> Between 1965 and 1995 The Grateful Dead played 2,314 shows, 36,534 songs,
484
> different songs....This is without the Jerry Garcia solo bands that played
> between 1971 and 1995 that played somewere around 800-1000
shows...:)...This
> does not count him sitting in on other bands shows that circulate....Keep
in
> mind..The Dead are still touring as we speak...But we were talking
Garcia....
AP- if that's the case, you easily win the factoid prize.
>
>
>
> >> >There's very few shows of Bob's that hav'nt been recorded by fans and
I'm
> >> >certain he's played considerably more shows from 1961 to date than the
> >Dead
> >> >etc.
> >>
> >> Nope....By the way, i thought we were talking individual
performers...in
> >that
> >> case i satnd by my claim that Jerry Garcia is the most
recorded/bootlegged
> >> performer ever....keep in mind he died in 95....but the dead still
carry
> >> on...so if you want you can still count their shows if we're talkin
bands
> >> here...By the way i LOVE LOVE LOVE Bob Dylan
>
>
> >The Dead with Jerry Garcia, no way, that's like The Beatles without John
> >Lennon or the Stones without Jagger.
> >Behave yourself! You're cheating now.
>
>
> I said in the original post that Jerry was the most recorded bootlegged
> performer ever..It was a response to your claim that Bob Dylan is the most
> bootlegged performer period...
AP- I think we've got confusion over live tapes circulating between fans as
is the case with the Dead and huge quantities of a multiplicity of titles
available to buy at record fair's by Bob Dylan. That's the difference I
mean. There's no way that bootleggers have produced as many Grateful Dead
bootlegs than that of Bob Dylan. One of the reasons for that are the
controls monitored by the authorities that be. It's was/is very much harder
to get a glass mastered factory produced bootleg made in the USA than say
parts of Europe. The stampers are all ID'd. If you've got any European boot
CD's look to see the country of manufacture. It's Italy, Hungary, Luxemburg
and more recently Israel as controls steadily tighten in Europe. Plus the
fact that Bob's a lot more popular throughout Europe than the Dead ever
were. Go back to 1969 when the initial pressings of Great White Wonder,
about 100,000 sold out quickly. The Dead were lucky if they sold that many
official albums outwith the USA. I keep saying the Dead were only big news
in certain parts of USA, they were just another band most other places.
Sorry to disappoint you on that.
It's also probably part of the reason that Columbia host this site. So that
if boots are here to stay and they are, that fans swap them for free, rather
than feeding the black market.
AP- I only wish there was any evidence of that on the Dylan & The Dead
album. You'd think the Dead were at a differnt show! Shockingly lax
performance. As for the Deads backing vocals, nuff said.
>
> Bob Dylan's eulogy for Jerry Garcia:
>
> "There's no way to measure his greatness or magnitude as a person or as a
> player. I don't think eulogizing will do him justice. He was that great -
much
> more than a superb musician with an uncanny ear and dexterity. He is the
very
> spirit personified of whatever is muddy river country at its core and
screams
> up into the spheres. He really had no equal. To me he wasn't only a
musician
> and friend, he was more like a big brother who taught and showed me more
than
> he'll ever know. There are a lot of spaces and advances between the Carter
> Family, Buddy Holly and, say, Ornette Coleman, a lot of universes, but he
> filled them all without being a member of any school. His playing was
moody,
> awesome, sophisticated, hypnotic and subtle. <<...>> There's no way to
convey
> the loss. It just digs down really deep." - Bob Dylan
>
AP- Yeah, sure , Bob and Jerry knew each other, but it sounds a bit
sanctamonious to me. Bob's not going to say anything to the contrary is he?
He's said the same about Woody Guthrie, Johnny Cash. Bob knows how to play
the media game, he's a bread head.
He's not said anything remotely controversial about anything since Live Aid
`85, when he commented on the plight of some USA farmers with high
mortgages. At least they could eat, unlike the 9 million starving Ethiopians
which Bob seemed none too concerned about.
Cheers,
AP
>
Olompali4
Michael Jones
>
> Richard Thompson is a Britney fan. He covered Oops I Did It Again.
>
you actually heard Richard Thompson perform this song? There is more than a
hint of irony to it.
Dwolf0823
>news:WPRyb.42863$ZV6....@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...
>>
>> Richard Thompson is a Britney fan. He covered Oops I Did It Again.
I don't want to judge music I haven't listened to, but are you saying that
there is substance to Britney Spears's work? This is probably the first time
I've ever heard that claim.
Eminem has said many stupid things, but I would never have considered the
Britney "give me back my $16" line to be one of them. In fact, it's one of my
favorites, cracking me up every time I hear it.
dsw
Alan Fraser
wrote:
I loved the bit in "Love Actually" where Bill Nighy as aging rocker
Billy Mac is asked in a radio interview "Who was the best shag you
ever had?", to which he replies "Britney Spears".
Then he caps it by saying "Just kidding - she was rubbish!"
Alan
Nate Smith
> Between 1965 and 1995 The Grateful Dead played 2,314 shows, 36,534 songs, 484
> different songs....This is without the Jerry Garcia solo bands that played
> between 1971 and 1995 that played somewere around 800-1000 shows...:)...This
> does not count him sitting in on other bands shows that circulate....Keep in
> mind..The Dead are still touring as we speak...But we were talking Garcia....
>
> I said in the original post that Jerry was the most recorded bootlegged
> performer ever..It was a response to your claim that Bob Dylan is the most
> bootlegged performer period...
> JonP
actually this whole argument is another one of semantics.
if you have permission to record, how can it be a bootleg?
bootlegs are made against the will of the performer.
there's no question that jerry & the dead have more field
recordings - they've still to this day played more events.
but dylan has had more recordings made against his will
than anybody, i would say.
- nate
robertandrews
>Have you actually heard Richard Thompson perform this song?
Before he played it, he said he liked Swedish pop like Abba & the Cardigans.
Britney, her songwriters & producers fit into that tradition pretty well.
>There is more than a hint of irony to it.
I didn't hear a trace of irony in his version.
Jperdue4
>> time...I stand by that claim...
>
>AP- Maybe the most recorded member of the Grateful Dead. But in real terms
>do you think he recorded more material than say Elvis Presley, Frank Sinatra
>or Johnny Cash for example. I doubt very much if he did. The Dead only made
>approx 12 studio albums, Jerry (himself) about half that.
Not only the most recorded grateful dead memeber but the most recorded perfomer
of all time was/is my claim...I guess im thriugh with this thread, you dont
seem to know enough about the subject to cary on with it.We are going in
circles...Once again go look at the over 2,300 show with the dead , the near
1000 shows on his own and the numnber of times hes played with others and
theres no doubt he been recorded more than anyone you named...ELVIS??!....
>All the rest are
>countless live releases full of covers of other's songs. Not very impressive
>in that respect,
Lol...cmon, your foldin like a house of cards..
I forgot dylan never does covers....lol
>I've always felt short
>changed when a live album is released, where with a little more effort from
>those involved it could maybe of been a new studio record. It does help if
>you're able to write great songs, something the Dead never mastered. Good
>musicians they were/are, song writers not.
>>
"They" didnt writes the lyrics, Robert Hunter, (also a contemporary of Dylan)
did..Youve got some serious mental problems if you find no beauty in his
lyrics..And remind me of the dumbasses that put down Bob Dylan for the same
reasons..Youre veering WAAAY off the original argument and i see now that your
just a grateful dead hater....Im sorry i engaged you...
>> >Why would Bob have less shows recorded by audiences than the Dead? Just
>> >because the Dead had a tapers section doesn't mean they're not taped.
>We'll
>> >have to count all known recordings.
>> >>
>>
>> Because he played fewer shows?..The deads shows have been recorded and
>> circulated since @january of 1966....Im not sure i understand your
>question....
>AP- Bob's have been circulated since 1961 because that's when he started
>playing shows.. The Dead formed in `65, so it would have to start about then
>wouldn't it. There certainly not the only artists that have been bootlegged
>continuously since their offset.
>>
Jerry Garcia was playing in bluegrass folk bands way before 65, there are shows
circulating from 1961, Jerry was a VERY good banjo player..
No they arent the first to be bootlegged since they began and i never said they
were..Once again you not not of what you speak..
>.Dead fans
>do
>> >not
>> >> tolerate selling bootlegs...
>> >No obviously not, that's why they're all expected to shell out for the
>> >latest double/triple cd of a live show almost every month care of Dick's
>> >Picks volumes to infinity series. A total disgrace if you ask me.
>>
>> Dix pix sell for around 18 bucks for a three disc set....No one is
>expected to
>> do anything of the sort, the dixpix series is aimed at the casual dead
>> collector and not the rest of us...Everything theyeve released except for
>the
>> new one has been circulating forever....None of the dix are complete
>> shows...Believe me, i dont dig the dixpix series either...I dont think
>they
>> should be selling shows previously circulated for free, but thats just me,
>and
>> they sell the hell out of them so someone digs them..I guess theres just
>not
>> the demand for live dylan stuff..
>AP- You can double your 18 dollar price for the rest of the world. You think
>the Dick's Picks series is for casual fans?
Yes, they are, its a well known accepted fact....More rabid fans and collectors
trade shows fro free, eveything save one show was already circulating..Thats
not to say some fans do own dix pix, i have several myself.
.>I think not
lol..youve thought not about alot of things youve been wrong about so far...
>What's casual about buying a double or triple live album by the
>same band every month? That ridiculous.
I dont know anyone that does this....>At least these buyers are getting
>hopefully a better quality recording that the vine tapes can offer, but 38
>bucks isn't casual.
Dix pix do not sell for 38 bucks, what a record store does to the price is up
to them....You can get the show for free, just by askin..
.>Now it's DVD too, so you Deadheads are really getting
>screwed for your hard earned cash. It's such a cynical enterprise. Someone
>once said to me "The Grateful Dead are a band of the peole", my arse they
>are. The Grateful Dead Great Pension Fund more like.
I guess your claims about bob being the most recorded artist are gone eh?...By
the way the new winterland dvd is SPECTACULAR!!...Ans its sellin for under 20
bucks...6.5 hours of music etc...go figure....
>> >OK, give it another name closer to your choice.
>> >The last time I saw the Dead was at the Rainbow in London about 1980. The
>> >Rainbow held about 1500 people.
>Wow you saw them at the London
>> Theater... NICE!....Im truly envious.....That run was 10-2-81, 10-3-81,
>> 10-4-81,10-6-81....Some really nice stuff from that run..Do you know the
>exact
>> date or maybe the day of the week you saw them?.I may have a copy of the
>show
>> for you.....
>
>AP- I saw them the night they played an acoustic set for about 5 hours.
>Thankfully I could lie on the floor!
>>
So, now youre a liar as well?...Looks that way douche...They didnt play an
acoustic set at the rainbow theater in 81..Any motre lies you care to have me
expose?....The grateful dead have never played a 5 hour acoustic set anywhere..
>> >Yes Japan (which has dedicated record stores selling ONLY Bob Dylan
>records
>> >with huge selections of bootlegs) and Malaysia, Indonesia (4th largest
>> >country inthe world), Singapore....
>>
>> Unbelieveable..And this is a good thiing to you?....You wonder why bob
>doesnt
>> dig his shows being recorded?....We trade them for free, thereby taking
>the
>> profit out of it for douches like this...
>AP- There's a mighty number of douches out there. But, if bootlegs are going
>to exist, it's better in the hands of specialists who do a good job than
>rogue traders at a fair who you'll never see again. At least the buyer can
>take something back to the shop he's not happy with. In Tokyo, you'll also
>find stores dedicated to Led Zeppelin, The Beatles etc.
>>
lol....good lord, your an idiot babe, its a wonder ya still know how to
breathe....
>>But so are Bob's mostly recorded. I only have info up to 1998. But from
>1961
>> >to end `98 Bob had played at least 1,706 shows. From `75 to `92 only 30
>> >shows were missing, bearing in mind this info is now 5 years old, it's
>safe
>> >to assume a few of these will have turned up.
>> >>
>>
>> Between 1965 and 1995 The Grateful Dead played 2,314 shows, 36,534 songs,
>484
>> different songs....This is without the Jerry Garcia solo bands that played
>> between 1971 and 1995 that played somewere around 800-1000
>shows...:)...This
>> does not count him sitting in on other bands shows that circulate....Keep
>in
>> mind..The Dead are still touring as we speak...But we were talking
>Garcia....
>
>AP- if that's the case, you easily win the factoid prize.
>>
Wasnt tryin to win a prize, just correcting another newsgroup guy that says
stuff that he knows nothing about...thanks for admitting you were wrong, and i
promise you, if i found out i was wrong i would admit it and move along...You
didnt have to get into putting the ban down though...Iys no different than some
michael jackson fan tellin you that hes a better songwriter, dancer, child
molester than Dylan, it would irritate you as well...
.>> I said in the original post that Jerry was the most recorded bootlegged
>> performer ever..It was a response to your claim that Bob Dylan is the most
>> bootlegged performer period...
>
>AP- I think we've got confusion over live tapes circulating between fans as
>is the case with the Dead and huge quantities of a multiplicity of titles
>available to buy at record fair's by Bob Dylan. That's the difference I
>mean. There's no way that bootleggers have produced as many Grateful Dead
>bootlegs than that of Bob Dylan.
THERES NO REASON, THEY ALLOW TAPING !!..IT TAKES THE PROFIT OUT!!..Why zimmy
doesnt get this i just dont understand...Why YOU would support them by buying
them is even a larger mystery...
>One of the reasons for that are the
>controls monitored by the authorities that be. It's was/is very much harder
>to get a glass mastered factory produced bootleg made in the USA than say
>parts of Europe. The stampers are all ID'd. If you've got any European boot
>CD's look to see the country of manufacture. It's Italy, Hungary, Luxemburg
>and more recently Israel as controls steadily tighten in Europe. Plus the
>fact that Bob's a lot more popular throughout Europe than the Dead ever
>were. Go back to 1969 when the initial pressings of
>Great White Wonder,
>about 100,000 sold out quickly. The Dead were lucky if they sold that many
>official albums outwith the USA. I keep saying the Dead were only big news
>in certain parts of USA, they were just another band most other places.
>Sorry to disappoint you on that.
>It's also probably part of the reason that Columbia host this site. So that
>if boots are here to stay and they are, that fans swap them for free, rather
>than feeding the black market.
lol...im dumbfounded.....Speechless....youre now talking about bootlegs like
theyre released by folks that actually CARE about the stuff they
bootlegging?..You havent been doing this very long...I guess im just not used
to hearing a "fan" talk so glowingly about the inferior/illegal bootlegs of an
artist they suppsadly love and care about...truly odd..>> Bob Dylan's eulogy
Like i said, you arent worth the bandwidth this is taking..begone....back to
your hole...
holy CRAP!!...
JonP
Jperdue4
just because we dont sell and buy boots?....MY claim was and still is theat
Jerry Garcia was the most recorded artist of all time..
JonP
Nate Smith
>> recordings - they've still to this day played more events.
>>
>> but dylan has had more recordings made against his will
>> than anybody, i would say.
>>
>>
>>- nate
>
> Jerry Garcia was the most recorded artist of all time..
> JonP
do you have a reading problem? i'm agreeing with you, man.
the point is whether or not it is against the performer's will.
- nate
Great North Woods
> > anybody. If he want to, he can walk over the stage wearing a red suit
> > but he does not want us to see him dressing it.
> If I understand this correctly, I think it's a crucial distinction. It's
> not the money. It's the control. He wants to have THE say over his own
> work. No ifs, ands or buts. It's part of why he rarely does well guesting
> on other people's shows. I think he'd have to admit that "some of the
> bootleggers make pretty good stuff" now that he's heard some of it. But he
> still wants to be the one to decide what gets out, even while knowing it's
> hopelessly impossible.
yes, it's about control. because... now i'm getting a bit theoretical,
but in a moment of creation there's always an element of chaos, of
darkness, which involves a risk of a failure. in a moment of creation
the creator cannot have full control over the creating process.
otherwise it would not be really creativity but repetition of old,
because then there would not be anything new... just things the
creator already knew beforehand.
who could stand the pressure of people watching you behind your back
when you are "naked", humble and empty, humming the melody of a song
that turns out to be something like Sara or Jokerman? in this respect,
bootlegging studio material is not far from making an artist a circus
monkey or a conjurer playing tricks.
Also, that's the reason why i think it's nice that they have good
fitting-rooms in clothing stores.
but still... i love to hear his unofficial studio stuff. but i think
it's a sort of voyeurism.
when Bobby the Great is dead, Sony will be making a lot of money out
of his art.
jusa
beppe
> thought i read somewhere that bob collects miles davis bootlegs????
Of course he does, he might, he did.....
Do you really believe he believes the crap he said about *bootlegs* and
*stealing*?
--
ciao
beppe
beppe
> "With all my records, there's been an abundance of material left over.
> And other people seem to think they have some kind of right to it. You
> don't drive a car out of the showroom witout paying for it, do you?
> You don't leave the supermarket without passing through the checkout.
> It's called stealing. Why the principle should be any diffrent when it
> comes to music, I really don't know."
Tell the man the difference is *legality* and *allowance* and the possibile
realtions among the two.
Stealing is a crime, THUS is not allowed.
Taping, trading, downloading is allowed THUS it is not a crime.
PS
Did Dylan really say such nonsense?
--
ciao
beppe
beppe
> >"With all my records, there's been an abundance of material left over.
> >And other people seem to think they have some kind of right to it. You
> >don't drive a car out of the showroom witout paying for it, do you?
> >You don't leave the supermarket without passing through the checkout.
> >It's called stealing. Why the principle should be any diffrent when it
> >comes to music, I really don't know."
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> We arent trading records, theyre shows, theyre not being sold, theyre
being
> traded, theyre bringing more paying customers to his shows...nuthin wrong
with
> it...i notice he hasnt quit as a result..
> JonP
Not only so.
Taping and trading is not only allowed but appreciated and pursued by the
rec companies which produce the artists AND the cd burners
(and it's just one example)
I never heard Ford advertisng vehicles to be used as runaways cars in
shopliftings.
Just to stick to the silly comparison Dylan made
--
ciao
beppe
a.percy
> >> i was claiming that Jerry Garcia is maybe the most recorded artist of
all
> >> time...I stand by that claim...
OK, I've no problem with that, since you've provided hard-core facts. I
stand mistaken.
> Not only the most recorded grateful dead memeber but the most recorded
perfomer
> of all time was/is my claim...I guess im thriugh with this thread, you
dont
> seem to know enough about the subject to cary on with it.We are going in
> circles...Once again go look at the over 2,300 show with the dead , the
near
> 1000 shows on his own and the numnber of times hes played with others and
> theres no doubt he been recorded more than anyone you named...ELVIS??!....
Yes Elvis, in reference to your statement of Jerry's vast canon of studio
sessions.
But there again...
No Elvis, no nothing. You'd all still be grooving to Patsy Cline, Hank
Williams, Sammy Davis Jnr. & Pat Boone.
Elvis was the most vital statistic in the revolution of music as we ALL know
it today. Love him or hate him...
>
>
> Lol...cmon, your foldin like a house of cards..
> I forgot dylan never does covers....lol
Not in the unsurpassed quantity of your Dead fellows.
> "They" didnt writes the lyrics, Robert Hunter, (also a contemporary of
Dylan)
> did..Youve got some serious mental problems if you find no beauty in his
> lyrics..And remind me of the dumbasses that put down Bob Dylan for the
same
> reasons..Youre veering WAAAY off the original argument and i see now that
your
> just a grateful dead hater....Im sorry i engaged you...
No, jperdue, no mental problems thank you very much.
I don't enjoy the singing of the Grateful Dead very much, that's all.
>
>
>
> >AP- Bob's have been circulated since 1961 because that's when he started
> >playing shows.. The Dead formed in `65, so it would have to start about
then
> >wouldn't it. There certainly not the only artists that have been
bootlegged
> >continuously since their offset.
> >>
>
>
> Jerry Garcia was playing in bluegrass folk bands way before 65, there are
shows
> circulating from 1961, Jerry was a VERY good banjo player..
> No they arent the first to be bootlegged since they began and i never said
they
> were..Once again you not not of what you speak.
I know Jerry was in bluegrass bands. I know he played banjo well. What do I
not speak in relation to this issue?
I'll never be entertained by listening to Jerry playing Banjo in 1961. But,
I will be by listening to Bob at Carnegie Chapter Hall or the Gaslight. An
entirely different perspective.
> >AP- You can double your 18 dollar price for the rest of the world. You
think
> >the Dick's Picks series is for casual fans?
>
> Yes, they are, its a well known accepted fact....
> More rabid fans and collectors
> trade shows fro free, eveything save one show was already
circulating..Thats
> not to say some fans do own dix pix, i have several myself.
>
> .>I think not
>
> lol..youve thought not about alot of things youve been wrong about so
far...
I must say you've certainly taken it to heart. This still doesn't excuse the
price levels being charged for these "public" recordings by the Dead's
record company. What does a cd cost to manufacture. A few cents maybe.
You seem to be under the illusion that Deadheads are an elite conglomorate.
You think Beatles, Stones, Hendrix, Who etc, etc fans don't swap tapes?
>
>
>
>
> >What's casual about buying a double or triple live album by the
> >same band every month? That ridiculous.
>
> I dont know anyone that does this....>At least these buyers are getting
> >hopefully a better quality recording that the vine tapes can offer, but
38
> >bucks isn't casual.
>
> Dix pix do not sell for 38 bucks, what a record store does to the price is
up
> to them....You can get the show for free, just by askin..
This is fine if you're a member of some fan circle, then you've access to
"underground" recordings.
If you're not, you're screwed. Look within this months issue of Mojo. This
month 4 new Grateful Dead releases are being marketed. Dix Pix 30 @£26.99,
Closing Of Winterland 2 DVD @ £24.99, Closing Of Winterland DVD + CD @
£34.99, Closing Of Winterland 4 CD set @ £24.99. That's approx £112, about
$145. Who's kidding who?
Like I said, The Grateful Dead's Great Pension Fund. What would you call it?
Fan-care? Dead-care?
It's the absolute epitome of this relentless "retro-culture" that's being
rammed down our throats. It sucks.
>
>
> I guess your claims about bob being the most recorded artist are gone
eh?...By
> the way the new winterland dvd is SPECTACULAR!!...Ans its sellin for under
20
> bucks...6.5 hours of music etc...go figure....
Gone, yes, first time round, but you can tell me again...but we seem to have
gotten on to the subject of the Dead...
Go figure what? It's certainly not under 20 bucks in Europe. Nearer 45 bucks
to us. Told you it sucks.
>
>
> >Wow you saw them at the London
> >> Theater... NICE!....Im truly envious.....That run was 10-2-81, 10-3-81,
> >> 10-4-81,10-6-81....Some really nice stuff from that run..Do you know
the
> >exact
> >> date or maybe the day of the week you saw them?.I may have a copy of
the
> >show
> >> for you.....
> >
>
>
> >AP- I saw them the night they played an acoustic set for about 5 hours.
> >Thankfully I could lie on the floor!
> >>
>
> So, now youre a liar as well?...Looks that way douche...They didnt play an
> acoustic set at the rainbow theater in 81..Any motre lies you care to have
me
> expose?....The grateful dead have never played a 5 hour acoustic set
anywhere..
Now that's out of order. There's absolutely no need for insults. I have
certainly not given you the same shrift to deserve that as a retort. If you
had bothered to read my sentence and not dive straight for your volumes of
factoid books, you would have seen that I said 1980. It could of been `79.
And they played an extremely lengthy set, loads of acoustic stuff, for what
seemed like 5 hours. I didn't take notes, I didn't keep time, I just
remember leaving the venue at about 2am.
You weren't even f*****g there and you've the audacity to call me a liar.
Check out your book more carefully. Better still check out your tapes. Tapes
seldom lie, books often do.
>
>
> >> >Yes Japan (which has dedicated record stores selling ONLY Bob Dylan
> >records
> >> >with huge selections of bootlegs) and Malaysia, Indonesia (4th largest
> >> >country inthe world), Singapore....
> >>
>
>
>
> >> Unbelieveable..And this is a good thiing to you?....You wonder why bob
> >doesnt
> >> dig his shows being recorded?....We trade them for free, thereby taking
> >the
> >> profit out of it for douches like this...
>
>
> >AP- There's a mighty number of douches out there. But, if bootlegs are
going
> >to exist, it's better in the hands of specialists who do a good job than
> >rogue traders at a fair who you'll never see again. At least the buyer
can
> >take something back to the shop he's not happy with. In Tokyo, you'll
also
> >find stores dedicated to Led Zeppelin, The Beatles etc.
> >>
>
> lol....good lord, your an idiot babe, its a wonder ya still know how to
> breathe....
Sorry...lost me there...
Well you had originally expressed surprise about this. So I simply gave you
a little more info as you seem to know fuck all about fuck all outside of
the US of A. What's idiotic about specialist shops. How would you know,
you've obviously never been near Japan. You would piss your pants if you
came across a Dead shop. Don't tell me you wouldn't.
Well you (anyone) would at the prices. Double cd sets at $120, Box sets @
$350+. Exclusive products for exclusive fans. Not everyone is satisfied with
a tenth generation tape. I'm for sure not. I throw them away.
>
>
>
>
> >> Between 1965 and 1995 The Grateful Dead played 2,314 shows, 36,534
songs,
> >484
> >> different songs....This is without the Jerry Garcia solo bands that
played
> >> between 1971 and 1995 that played somewere around 800-1000
> >shows...:)...This
> >> does not count him sitting in on other bands shows that
circulate....Keep
> >in
> >> mind..The Dead are still touring as we speak...But we were talking
> >Garcia....
> >
>
>
> >AP- if that's the case, you easily win the factoid prize.
> >>
>
> Wasnt tryin to win a prize, just correcting another newsgroup guy that
says
> stuff that he knows nothing about...thanks for admitting you were wrong,
and i
> promise you, if i found out i was wrong i would admit it and move
along...You
> didnt have to get into putting the ban down though...Iys no different than
some
> michael jackson fan tellin you that hes a better songwriter, dancer, child
> molester than Dylan, it would irritate you as well...
You're Dead right, you are certainly no better, trouble is you don't know
any better either.
Your tone is one of permanent disdain for other's views. You're utterly
unable to "chat" on a chat line, such as this one, without getting gung-ho,
abusive and generally unpleasant.
>
>
> .>> I said in the original post that Jerry was the most recorded
bootlegged
> >> performer ever..It was a response to your claim that Bob Dylan is the
most
> >> bootlegged performer period...
> >
>
>
> >AP- I think we've got confusion over live tapes circulating between fans
as
> >is the case with the Dead and huge quantities of a multiplicity of titles
> >available to buy at record fair's by Bob Dylan. That's the difference I
> >mean. There's no way that bootleggers have produced as many Grateful Dead
> >bootlegs than that of Bob Dylan.
>
> THERES NO REASON, THEY ALLOW TAPING !!..IT TAKES THE PROFIT OUT!!..Why
zimmy
> doesnt get this i just dont understand...Why YOU would support them by
buying
> them is even a larger mystery...
I don't support the buying per say, but even if Dylan doesn't allow it,
somehow or other it will prevail.
I congratulate the Dead for their stance on this. Despite what you say, they
still have a nice hefty earner coming their way selling all these old shows
every month.
You better believe that a lot of bootleggers DO CARE. You have to see the
productions coming out of UK and Japan to realise this properly. Obviously,
you're not going to see them imported into USA in any great quantities.
What havn't I been doing very long. I AM a bootlegger, didn't you suss that
ages ago. I've lost count of the Dylan shows that I've put out FOR FREE to
fans. I always, always try to get the best recordings at a show, usually to
my cost of total enjoyment because I'm busy monitoring the levels etc.
I absolutely love bootlegs and can't get enough of them. Many are not in the
slightest "inferior". Many, particularly nowadays are absolutely wonderful.
Incredible quality. Depends who you know though, like everything.
I hate lousy bootlegs and don't even keep them if they come my way. Quality
product only. Neither do I want every single show.
Any true "fan" of Bob Dylan knows his bootlegs are an integral part of the
whole trip. Absolutely no different to any other band's collective fans.
So what you're saying is that it's OK for Deadheads to have bootlegs, but
not the Bobcats. Mmmm.
>
> Like i said, you arent worth the bandwidth this is taking..begone....back
to
> your hole...
> holy CRAP!!...
> JonP
Man, you're so full of yourself. Why are you so insulting and angry. All I
said was that Dylan was the most bootlegged artist. You've said it's Jerry
Gatcia. Well, not said, rammed down my throat more like. OK, Jerry for gold!
Is this what you're like with everybody here. You're like a bull in a china
shop. Boorish, ill-humoured and at least uneducated and know sweet fuck all
about anything in this world out with the USA. But that's not your fault
because it's a typical. Bet you were the loud mouth bully at school.
Why can't you behave. Be yourself even, give it a shot.
Cheers,
Andrew
Dwolf0823
Ever hear of a copyright? I don't know to what extent, if any, the taping,
trading, and downloading of field recordings is "fair use" under copyright law,
but Dylan's comparison is hardly nonsense.
dsw
beppe
Yes, I heard of a copyright.
So can you tell me whay copyright infringements are massively possible
mainly (solely, that is) thanks to the very same copyright owners?
Ever heard of Sony-Verbatim?
--
ciao
beppe
Dwolf0823
That's the work of Sony, not Bob Dylan. Bob Dylan still owns property rights
to his music. Again, what goes on with trades, etc. might be fair use. I
don't know. I just believe you're a little glib in dismissing Dylan's analogy
as "nonsense."
And is taping really "allowed" at Dylan concerts? If it's all hunky-dory, why
do tapers who get caught have their tapes confiscated by security? If it's
allowed, it's *your* property, and the confiscation would be an act of
thievery.
dsw
Debra Lind
"With all my records, there's been an abundance of material left over.
And other people seem to think they have some kind of right to it. You
don't drive a car out of the showroom witout paying for it, do you? You
don't leave the supermarket without passing through the checkout. It's
called stealing. Why the principle should be any diffrent when it comes
to music, I really don't know."
I think what Dylan may be talking about here are the individuals that
walked out of the studio with the recordings without permission to do so
and eventually letting them out on the streets.
You have to admit that is stealing.
And now the outtakes from the last few albums are all protected in
vaults because no one can be trusted.
Debra Lind
concert with a recording as guilty as the person that walks out of a
studio with outtakes. Since they are both done without permission I
think the answer has to be, yes.
We can massage our conscience all we want by saying is is done for the
love of the music and with no thought for padding our wallets but
technically it is the same.
Olompali4
>month 4 new Grateful Dead releases are being marketed. Dix Pix 30 @£26.99,
>Closing Of Winterland 2 DVD @ £24.99, Closing Of Winterland DVD + CD @
>£34.99, Closing Of Winterland 4 CD set @ £24.99. That's approx £112<
What does price matter to an "exclusive fan" who shops Dylan boutiques in
Asia? Music is a lot cheaper to obtain in the USA...The price set in shops
around the world is not up to the GD.
a. percy also adds: >I AM a bootlegger<
Now that would be strictly not for profit, right? Heck you shouldn't even
recoup your expenses in legal tender..right?
As far as hours captured on tape..what with 1000's of GD/JG concerts averaging
3 hours each..well Ol' Jer jes' may be one of the biggies among the biggies.
DGDevin
news:DTTyb.277060$275.991999@attbi_s53...
>
> College Campus circuit? Your joking right? The Dead are the most
successful
> touring act of all time.
Maybe we need to define "successful," if you mean the most shows, probably.
But if you mean the gate, then the Stones and some other bands certainly
come in ahead of the Dead.
> When you consider the fact that the Dead actually encouraged their
> fans to record their show and Bob is on the record as not condoning
audience
> taping and actively trys to stop it, I would be very surprised to find out
> that there are more Audience "Bootleg" recordings of Bob D than the Dead
You could also look at "commercial" bootlegs, recordings for which someone
went to the trouble to cook up artwork and offer for sale, in which case
again I think you'll find the Stones are in the no. 1 slot. But the one
that started it all off was a Dylan release, no doubt about that, and both
Dylan and the Stones were booted in ways that forced the issue of official
releases, maybe there are some points for that too. I'm not sure what all
this proves, if anything, to me the coolest thing about Dead boots is that
the band allowed them, for that they all deserve an especially shiny halo.
;-)
a.percy
Olompali4 <olom...@aol.compton> wrote in message
news:20031202235633...@mb-m19.aol.com...
> a. percy writes:>Look within this months issue of Mojo. This
> >month 4 new Grateful Dead releases are being marketed. Dix Pix 30
@£26.99,
> >Closing Of Winterland 2 DVD @ £24.99, Closing Of Winterland DVD + CD @
> >£34.99, Closing Of Winterland 4 CD set @ £24.99. That's approx £112<
>
> What does price matter to an "exclusive fan" who shops Dylan boutiques in
> Asia? Music is a lot cheaper to obtain in the USA...The price set in shops
> around the world is not up to the GD.
I never for a fleeting second said that it did. Prices vary depending on the
region, even in the USA.
I'm not exclusive, the shops are. As I said, to those with the money.
>
> a. percy also adds: >I AM a bootlegger<
>
> Now that would be strictly not for profit, right? Heck you shouldn't even
> recoup your expenses in legal tender..right?
Exactly, I don't. That's why I put the Sheffield tape up here FOR FREE a few
days ago. I pay for the wear and tear on my equipment and the electricity.
Nobody parts with any money here.
I'm certainly not telling you here in public if I do recoup my expenses.
What do you think?
I havn't encountered such a "straight-head" for a long time. Tell me, what
are you doing here if you've got some legal hang-up with illegitimate
recordings. You're opinion's worthless if that's the case. But you must be
in connection with some sort of tape vine or you wouldn't be here. Hypocrisy
me thinks. Unless you were wanting to discuss matrix numbers or Bob's
hairdresser.
>
> As far as hours captured on tape..what with 1000's of GD/JG concerts
averaging
> 3 hours each..well Ol' Jer jes' may be one of the biggies among the
biggies.
Oh man, as far as I'm concerned the Grateful Dead's music is about as
welcome as a french kiss at a family reunion.
Gerry N
Well, this is how it's going to be:
Recorded songs will be free on the net or almost free on CD:s. The
songs if good enough will make their way to the audience. The artist
will be booked for concerts and get money for that and money from
radio stations. If the music is good enough the artist will be able to
tour and have a profession as a musician with a reasonable amount of
money to live on.
No billionaires like Madonna will come up any more. And who will miss
them? Instead their will be thousands of good reasonable payed
musicians touring around the globe, making it worth for us to get out
of bed every morning.
The future belongs to music, not to Tommy Mottola and his colleagues!!
Gerry
a.percy
DGDevin <dgd...@worldnet.att.invalid> wrote in message
news:6Yezb.379455$0v4.19...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
Not quite true DG,
Compare the current tally within "Isis" Galileo's Boots section for Dylan,
versus "The Ultimate Guide" by Felix Aeppli for The Stones. I think you'll
find that Mr. D dances over the Stones.
Bootleg recordings have been around since the invention of portable cylinder
recorders, used mostly at Jazz concerts since the 1930's, despite the common
perception that Great White Wonder was the formative article. Have you read
"The Great White Wonders" A History Of Rock Bootlegs by Clinton Heylin? If
not, I can recommend it.
Cheers,
Andrew
>
J Buck
from radio stations>
I have to respectfully disagree. The profit margin in radio is slim
enough as it is. Radio cannot/will not pay artists in order to play
their music. (No matter how hard Clear Channel tries to cut their air
talent/programming payroll to a bare minimum)
Olompali4
expenses.
>What do you think?<
Hey.. that's wily.
>I havn't encountered such a "straight-head" for a long time. Tell me, what
>are you doing here if you've got some legal hang-up with illegitimate
>recordings.<
Perhaps, to write and read aboutthe history of pop culture. Mr dylan plays a
large part in it's history.
No I'm not looking for recordings.
I would be interested in a discourse on Richard Farina's subtle influence on
Bob Dylan ca. 1965.
Legalities? I think that should be your hangup.
>Oh man, as far as I'm concerned the Grateful Dead's music is about as
>welcome as a french kiss at a family reunion.<
Well there you go, the obvious source of your slant.
volkfolk
"DGDevin" <dgd...@worldnet.att.invalid> wrote in message
news:6Yezb.379455$0v4.19...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> news:DTTyb.277060$275.991999@attbi_s53...
> >
> > College Campus circuit? Your joking right? The Dead are the most
> successful
> > touring act of all time.
>
> Maybe we need to define "successful," if you mean the most shows,
probably.
> But if you mean the gate, then the Stones and some other bands certainly
> come in ahead of the Dead.
Overall, I believe that the Dead were the most consistently successful
touring act. The Stones might have made more money (they did/do charge alot
more) but they also only toured every few years. The Dead consistently
played 100-150 dates per year and after the release of "In The Dark" sold
out nothing but Stadiums and Hockey rinks. They held(still hold?) the record
for the most sold out shows at Madison Square Garden.
> > When you consider the fact that the Dead actually encouraged their
> > fans to record their show and Bob is on the record as not condoning
> audience
> > taping and actively trys to stop it, I would be very surprised to find
out
> > that there are more Audience "Bootleg" recordings of Bob D than the Dead
>
> You could also look at "commercial" bootlegs, recordings for which someone
> went to the trouble to cook up artwork and offer for sale, in which case
> again I think you'll find the Stones are in the no. 1 slot. But the one
> that started it all off was a Dylan release, no doubt about that, and both
> Dylan and the Stones were booted in ways that forced the issue of official
> releases, maybe there are some points for that too. I'm not sure what all
> this proves, if anything, to me the coolest thing about Dead boots is that
> the band allowed them, for that they all deserve an especially shiny halo.
> ;-)
If you define "Bootleg" as an unofficial/illegal recording then the Dead are
not the most "bootlegged" band or recording artist. If you define Bootleg as
an audience or SBD recording made by someone other than the band, then the
Dead win hands down
Scot
Graphite
> For Bob to say that bootlegs have/are preventing him from doing new songs
> live, well, I don't believe him.
> Bob's the most bootlegged artist bar none. Presley and The Beatles are way
> behind.
I don't know about that. There's a ton of Zeppelin boots out there
too. If we're just talking about how many times an artist has been
recorded by an audience member, then Jerry Garcia is probably at the
top of the list, with his bandmates in the GD close behind.
Jperdue4
>>month 4 new Grateful Dead releases are being marketed. Dix Pix 30 @£26.99,
>>Closing Of Winterland 2 DVD @ £24.99, Closing Of Winterland DVD + CD @
>>£34.99, Closing Of Winterland 4
>CD set @ £24.99. That's approx £112<
We use real money here.i dont know what the squggly marks are you made..I
bought the dvd for 14.00, and the dicks picks sell for 18-20 bucks, of course
you can pay more if you want..i suggest deepdiscount.com
>a. percy also adds: >I AM a bootlegger<
You are a cancer....
JonP
"That's just what i need...
a good woman to kick
my butt now and then"
Bob Dylan
News
"The Buzz." That's the radio biz for ya!
But rumors are they *will* be replaced with humans and are not turning
completely automated.
Yet.
peace
Mark
beppe
Spot on, Debra!
*Technically* it is, *morally* (what counts) it is not.
If it were, are you telling me you would be able to be a shoplifter with no
second thoughts?
(as I suppose you have surely downloaded music and/or possess bootlegs)
Is it a *no* I hear?
So it is NOT the same.
--
ciao
beppe
beppe
> property rights to his music. Again, what goes on with trades, etc.
> might be fair use. I don't know. I just believe you're a little
> glib in dismissing Dylan's analogy as "nonsense."
Ok for me, if just a lexical matter.
I could say it's bullshit, then.
:-)))
Some should still explain to me why
(sorry for the selfquotation)
.....Taping and trading is not only allowed but appreciated and pursued by
the
rec companies which produce the artists AND the cd burners
(and it's just one example)
I never heard Ford advertisng vehicles to be used as runaways cars in
shopliftings........
> And is taping really "allowed" at Dylan concerts? If it's all
> hunky-dory, why do tapers who get caught have their tapes confiscated
> by security? If it's allowed, it's *your* property, and the
> confiscation would be an act of thievery.
In a way, it is, because most of the time IT IS reassigned.
But even it weren't, it doesn't *move* the parameters of the problem.
Try stealing a (say) candy bar and you'll be REALLY arrested (rightly), they
aren't just going to *confiscate* your satchel.
--
ciao
beppe
J Buck
those humans may not even be in Houston when they record their voice
tracks.
JC Martin
> >Jperdue4 wrote:
> >
> >> Between 1965 and 1995 The Grateful Dead played 2,314 shows, 36,534
songs,
> >484
> >> different songs....This is without the Jerry Garcia solo bands that
played
> >> between 1971 and 1995 that played somewere around 800-1000
> >shows...:)...This
> >> does not count him sitting in on other bands shows that
circulate....Keep
> >in
> >> mind..The Dead are still touring as we speak...But we were talking
> >Garcia....
> >>
> >> performer ever..It was a response to your claim that Bob Dylan is the
most
> >> bootlegged performer period...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > actually this whole argument is another one of semantics.
> >
> > if you have permission to record, how can it be a bootleg?
> > bootlegs are made against the will of the performer.
> >
> > there's no question that jerry & the dead have more field
> > recordings - they've still to this day played more events.
> >
> > but dylan has had more recordings made against his will
> > than anybody, i would say.
> >
> >
> >- nate
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> just because we dont sell and buy boots?....MY claim was and still is
> Jerry Garcia was the most recorded artist of all time..
Depends on the setting. Deadheads obviously are the largest audio
bootlegging culture in world history, mainly because the Dead encouraged
that practice. As far as studio sessions, which take a lot more time and
energy, people like Elvis and Duke Ellington I imagine are somewhere at the
top of the list.
-JC
a.percy
Graphite <steinbe...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:62219483.03120...@posting.google.com...
Oh I know about the Zeppelin boots. I've several hundred of them. I've been
subscribing to Tight But Loose for years and swap recordings with Dave
Lewis, the editer. However, the number a Bod Dylan bootlegs is far greater
than Led Zeppelin. Compare Galileo's Boots list to the Led Boots list and
you'll see for yourself.
Please no more on the `Dead. They were/are bloody awful. About as welcome in
some music circles as a french kiss at a family reunion.
DGDevin
>
> Not quite true DG,
> Compare the current tally within "Isis" Galileo's Boots section for Dylan,
> versus "The Ultimate Guide" by Felix Aeppli for The Stones. I think you'll
> find that Mr. D dances over the Stones.
That could be, I'm going by what people way more into that scene than I am
tell me. ;-)
> Bootleg recordings have been around since the invention of portable
cylinder
> recorders, used mostly at Jazz concerts since the 1930's, despite the
common
> perception that Great White Wonder was the formative article.
Ah, but GWW was offered to the public in a somewhat different legal and
commercial climate, it was "the first" in that sense.
> Have you read
> "The Great White Wonders" A History Of Rock Bootlegs by Clinton Heylin? If
> not, I can recommend it.
>
> Cheers,
> Andrew
I have his book "Bootleg: The Secret History of the Other Recording
Industry" and it is outstanding, highly recommended, among other things it
explodes many of the arguments of the labels and their RIAA thug-squad.
DBrophy479
>Depends on the setting. Deadheads obviously are the largest audio
>bootlegging culture in world history, mainly because the Dead encouraged
>that practice. As far as studio sessions, which take a lot more time and
>energy, people like Elvis and Duke Ellington I imagine are somewhere at the
>top of the list.
Brown is the most (studio) recorded musician of all time.
It makes sense,too.Besides all the jazz albums he's on,he outl several
generations of L.A. studio musicians.
I just did a quick Google search."Ray Brown can be heard playing the bass on
over 2000 recordings, which makes him one of the most recorded artists in music
history".
Ron Carter was a guest by phone on the same show recently,and when the host
asked how many records he was on,he had an exact figure,which I thought was
amusing.He said something like "1,461,at least that's what this cat in Japan
tells me."
a.percy
> >Look within this months issue of Mojo. This
> >>month 4 new Grateful Dead releases are being marketed. Dix Pix 30
@£26.99,
> >>Closing Of Winterland 2 DVD @ £24.99, Closing Of Winterland DVD + CD @
> >>£34.99, Closing Of Winterland 4
>
> >CD set @ £24.99. That's approx £112<
>
> We use real money here.i dont know what the squggly marks are you made..I
> bought the dvd for 14.00, and the dicks picks sell for 18-20 bucks, of
course
> you can pay more if you want..i suggest deepdiscount.com
You maybe surprised to know that there's more than one currency used in this
world.
>
> >a. percy also adds: >I AM a bootlegger<
>
> You are a cancer....
> JonP
> "That's just what i need...
> a good woman to kick
> my butt now and then"
> Bob Dylan
Oh here we go again. More childishness insults high-lighting your disability
to communicate effectively.
The phrase "you are a cancer" is somewhat unnecessary. Perhaps you should
know that 128 people connected to this forum contacted me regarding my
offer. You insult one, you insult them all. You should choose your words
more carefully. Some say conversation is an art form.
Debra Lind
>Debra Lind wrote:
On further thought, the question is, are the people that walk out of a
concert with a recording as guilty as the person that walks out of a
studio with outtakes. Since they are both done without permission I
think the answer has to be, yes.
We can massage our conscience all we want by saying is is done for
the love of the music and with no thought for padding our wallets but
technically it is the same.
Spot on, Debra!
*Technically* it is, *morally* (what counts) it is not. If it were, are
you telling me you would be able to be a shoplifter with no second
thoughts?
(as I suppose you have surely downloaded music and/or possess bootlegs)
Is it a *no* I hear?
So it is NOT the same.
--
I do have a few "audience recordings".
For me it comes down to respecting the wishes of the artist which is
opposed to what _I _want_. It becomes a question of ethics. If I was
truely ethical by my own standards I would not have any. I don't loose
any sleep over this, but I'm not going to sugar coat it and say that it
is right either.
It's a tough question. You can say, "well, it's not really hurting
anyone", and so forth, but you still come down to the bottom line that
you are going against something that someone you respect and admire, in
this case Bob, has asked not to be done. On the other hand I think it
would be such a shame to have his art lost to history if it was not
recorded. And certainly there are some shows that I really like hearing
more than once.
But, hey, I'm a Gemini, I could debate this with myself forever.... : )
lowge...@aol.com
> About as welcome in
>some music circles as a french kiss at a family reunion.
You've never met my 2nd cousin!
Olompali4
>some music circles as a french kiss at a family reunion.
>
"some music circles"
Whoop dee doo...
Max
so. For live stuff, though, the Dead biz is even weirder than the Dylan
biz.
"JC Martin" <jcma...@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:CFozb.541$XF6....@typhoon.sonic.net...
Seth Kulick
: Oh I know about the Zeppelin boots. I've several hundred of them.
We don't come to you with our problems, do we?
: Please no more on the `Dead. They were/are bloody awful. About as welcome in
: some music circles as a french kiss at a family reunion.
yawn.