Another Bootleg 7 update, more on No Direction Home, and some eating of crow
monic...@yahoo.com
I've updated -- and corrected an egregious goof in -- my annotations.
"When I Got Troubles" (1959): already known, but not in detail, and
previously uncirculating
"Rambler, Gambler" (1960): Despite what I said earlier, this is already
circulating as part of the Minneapolis/"Red Rosey Bush" tape. As I
noted in an earlier rmd post, the press reports have the taper's name
wrong (or at least report it differently than his family did a while
ago), but that very minor should hardly have confused anybody, let
alone an active poster on the subject of Dylan arcana.
"This Land Is Your Land" (live at New York's Carnegie Chapter Hall,
1961): previously reported, but uncirculating
"Song to Woody" (1961): from "Bob Dylan," although some reports
incorrectly source it to "Freewheelin;"
"Dink's Song" (1961): Minnesota (Hotel) Tape, already circulating
"I Was Young When I Left Home" (1961): Minnesota (Hotel) Tape, already
circulating, and included on various "official rarities"
"Sally Gal" ("The Freewheelin' Bob Dylan" outtake, 1962): 5 takes
known; only one circulates. Reported to be take 1; Dundas lists the
circulating track as take 3 -- therefore, previously uncirculating
"Don't Think Twice, It's Alright" (demo, 1963): already circulating
"Man of Constant Sorrow" (1963): From the "Folk Songs & More Folk
Songs" TV show, already circulating. There are reports suggesting this
comes from one of the circulating unofficial copies; that's nonsense.
Unless Scorsese and PBS have gone barking mad, the footage comes
directly from the video archive where the program turned up and is
properly licensed.
"Blowin' in the Wind" (live at New York's Town Hall, 1963): previously
uncirculating, and there's been a long argument about whether this
track, listed in Columbia's files, actually comes from the Town Hall
concert or was pulled from the October 1963 Carnegie Hall recording
"Masters of War" (live at New York's Town Hall, 1963): already
circulating
"A Hard Rain's A-Gonna Fall" (live at New York's Carnegie Hall, 1963):
previously known but uncirculating
"When the Ship Comes In" (live at New York's Carnegie Hall, 1963):
already circulating
"Mr. Tambourine Man" ("Another Side of Bob Dylan" alternate take,
1964): confirmed by bobdylan.com as the June 1964 recording from the
"Another Side" sessions, although reported as a "BIABH" outtake,
already circulating
"Chimes of Freedom" (live at Newport, R.I. Folk Festival, 1964):
already circulating
"It's All Over Now, Baby Blue" ("Bringing It All Back Home" alternate
take, 1965): 2 outtakes known, only one circulates. Reported as take #1
from 1/16/65, but that date doesn't match Krogsgaard's listing of
Columbia session records (or anybody else's, I'd say). According to
Dundas, take #1 of "Baby Blue" is the already circulating outtake, from
1/13/65.
Disc two:
"She Belongs To Me" ("Bringing It All Back Home" alternate take, 1965):
4 outtakes known, only one circulates. Reported as "Remake take #2"
from 1/14/65; since the official is release is take #2 from the
afternoon session, this could be a previously uncirculating version
from the evening session
"Maggie's Farm" (live at Newport, R.I. Folk Festival, 1965): already
circulating from the film soundtrack, but this is apparently from the
uncirculating Vanguard line recording. There is some debate about
whether the circulating stereo version is sourced from the Vanguard
recording or from the recordings from the Festival documentary, since
Festival was issued with mono sound.
"It Take a Lot To Laugh, It Takes a Train To Cry" ("Highway 61
Revisited" alternate take, 1965): previously uncirculating
"Tombstone Blues" ("Highway 61 Revisited" alternate take, 1965):
previously uncirculating, unless this is the alternate version with the
Chambers Bros. Reported as take #9 from 7/29/65, which is listed by
Krogsgaard as an incomplete take. There's a reliable report that it's
the Chambers Brothers take, but it's not established whether it will be
the overdubbed version. The Columbia session records seem to confuse
things further, since they describe the track involved as a
"composite," a label that was not applied across-the-board to
overdubbed tracks.
"Just Like Tom Thumb's Blues" ("Highway 61 Revisited" alternate take,
1965): previously uncirculating
"Desolation Row" ("Highway 61 Revisited" alternate take, 1965):
probably the already circulating outtake, but the session records are
inconsistent and another take could exist. Reported, however, as the
only take from 7/29/65, which Dundas lists as the already circulating
outtake.
"Highway 61 Revisited" ("Highway 61 Revisited" alternate take, 1965):
previously uncirculating
"Leopard Skin Pill-Box Hat" ("Blonde on Blonde" alternate take, 1966):
previously uncirculating
"Stuck Inside of Mobile With the Memphis Blues Again" ("Blonde on
Blonde" alternate take, 1966): previously uncirculating
"Visions of Johanna" ("Blonde on Blonde" alternate take, 1965): 6
complete takes from 1965 known, only 2 circulate. Reported as take #8;
according to Dundas, the circulating take is take #7, so this would be
previously uncirculating
"Ballad of a Thin Man" (live at Edinburgh's ABC Theatre, 1966):
audience recording circulates, not line recording
"Like a Rolling Stone" (live at Manchester, England's Free Trade Hall,
1966): officially released
There are also more details on the video performances in the Scorsese
documentary:
(Note that this list appeared, then disappeared, from bobdylan.com, and
therefore may not be reliable)
"Man of Constant Sorrow" - Television, 1963 -- this is from "Folk
Songs And More Folk Songs," and came into circulation not so long ago
"A Hard Rain's A-Gonna Fall" - Television, 1964 -- from
"Quest," and long-circulating
"Blowin' In the Wind" - Live at the Newport Folk Festival, 1963
-- This would apparently be the evening-closing ensemble performance,
audio officially released on various Vanguard Newport compilations,
video previously unseen
"With God on Our Side" - Live at the Newport Folk Festival, 1963
-- Presumably the duet with Baez that's again on various Vanguard audio
releases, but there is an unheard workshop performance, and that
acoustic "Tombstone Blues" that's floated around lately also comes from
a (1965) workshop. In either case video previously unseen
"Chimes of Freedom" - Live at the Newport Folk Festival, 1964 --
Video previously unseen, audio already circulating
"Mr. Tambourine Man" - Live at the Newport Folk Festival, 1964 --
Video previously unseen, audio already circulating
"It's Alright Ma" - Live in Europe, 1965 -- Don't Look Back
footage, unless Scorsese got the lost BBC shows and nobody's talking
about it. Whether the footage is from the official relase, the "new"
outtakes, or is entirely unseen, I'm not guessing.
"Maggie's Farm" - Live at Newport Folk Festival, 1965 --
presumably from Festival, and therefore already circulating
"Like a Rolling Stone" - Live at Newport Folk Festival, 1965 --
presumably shot for Festival, but not included in the final cut. It's
probably been seen, at least in part, at one or more of the "workshop"
showings of the expaned cut, but hasn't circulated openly
"It's All Over Now, Baby Blue" - Live at Newport Folk Festival,
1965 -- presumably shot for Festival, but not included in the final
cut. It's definitely been seen at one or more of the "workshop"
showings of the expaned cut, but hasn't circulated openly
"Mr. Tambourine Man" - Live in Europe, 1966
"Desolation Row" - Live in Europe, 1966
"Just Like Tom Thumb's Blues" - Live in Europe, 1966
"Ballad of a Thin Man" - Live in Europe, 1966
"Like a Rolling Stone" - Live in Europe, 1966
Of these songs, only "Desolation Row" isn't included in some form in
"Eat The Document." "LARS" is, of course, from Manchester, and hasn't
been seen before. As for the other three, there's no telling. My guess
would be that they aren't the "ETD" performances, but that's mostly
based on Pennebaker's comments about the poor physical condition of the
unused footage cut for ETD.
It's also been reported that Dylan narrates the documentary himself. I
suspect this is a bit of an overstatement, and that Scorsese has pieced
together the narration from the interviews Dylan gave for the film.
We'll probably be arguing about this long after we see the piece, if
experience is any guide . . .
Corrections to my previous pronouncements -- collect them all!
Seth Kulick
: "Don't Think Twice, It's Alright" (demo, 1963): already circulating
It is? On what? Has there ever been any evidence that the band version
of Don't Think Twice that is mentioned on the liner notes actually exists?
: "Chimes of Freedom" - Live at the Newport Folk Festival, 1964 --
: Video previously unseen, audio already circulating
This was shown at the NY Dylan symposium, May 2004. My brother
saw it and it's an understatement to say that he's eager to see it again.
Thanks for compiling this info.
monic...@yahoo.com
Seth Kulick wrote:
> monic...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> : "Don't Think Twice, It's Alright" (demo, 1963): already circulating
>
> It is? On what? Has there ever been any evidence that the band version
> of Don't Think Twice that is mentioned on the liner notes actually exists?
Still no evidence of the band version, but this is the version found on
http://www.angelfire.com/wa/monicasdude/438.htm
among other places.
> : "Chimes of Freedom" - Live at the Newport Folk Festival, 1964 --
> : Video previously unseen, audio already circulating
>
> This was shown at the NY Dylan symposium, May 2004. My brother
> saw it and it's an understatement to say that he's eager to see it again.
>
Oh boy, more crow . . . ;-) I should have stuck with "previously
uncirculating," but no.....
lowg...@ao1.com
>"Sally Gal" ("The Freewheelin' Bob Dylan" outtake, 1962): 5 takes
>known; only one circulates.
There are 2 takes circulating. By my calculations, this makes you 100%
wrong. Losing outtakes is very very bad.
>"Man of Constant Sorrow" (1963): From the "Folk Songs & More Folk Songs" TV show
>...Unless Scorsese and PBS have gone barking mad, the footage comes
>directly from the video archive where the program turned up
This didn't come from a "video archive" but from an individual involved in
the original production.
>"Blowin' in the Wind" (live at New York's Town Hall, 1963): previously
>uncirculating, and there's been a long argument about whether this
>track, listed in Columbia's files, actually comes from the Town Hall
>concert or was pulled from the October 1963 Carnegie Hall recording
There's no "argument" It was performed at Town Hall and I think some
contemporaneous report said it was performed at Carnegie although Columbia
omits it from their Carnegie list. If the insiders claim is that this is
from Town Hall, there's absolutely no reason to question it.
>"It's All Over Now, Baby Blue" ("Bringing It All Back Home" alternate
>take, 1965): 2 outtakes known, only one circulates
Krogsgaard reports only 2 known takes, and one was released. Why do you
claim there are "2 outtakes known" (is this another 100% error)?
>"Maggie's Farm" (live at Newport, R.I. Folk Festival, 1965): already
>circulating from the film soundtrack, but this is apparently from the
>uncirculating Vanguard line recording.
You previously corrected this mistake but now you're repeating the orginal
error.
>"Tombstone Blues" ("Highway 61 Revisited" alternate take, 1965):
>... There's a reliable report that it's the Chambers Brothers take, but it's not established whether it will be
>the overdubbed version
What "reliable report" are you quoting? The only "report" I've seen is your
own previous speculation that it might be the Chambers Bros take. I see a
snake swallowing its own tale.
>"Visions of Johanna" ("Blonde on Blonde" alternate take, 1965): 6
>complete takes from 1965 known, only 2 circulate. Reported as take #8;
>according to Dundas, the circulating take is take #7
Sad to say, Mr Dundas has published his own unfounded speculations with
regard to take numbers. The acetate sources for this has no take number on
it.
>Corrections to my previous pronouncements -- collect them all!
Righto.
Patricia Jungwirth
>been seen before.
We await with interest... from descriptions in reviews posted (by TV
critics who saw the preview screening), there appears to be more than one
possible location for this, we will need to keep our wits about us. One
critic described the scene thus :
"It's 1966 in London, and Dylan, folk icon, has gone electric. He is young,
wiry and full of marshalling genius -- he was probably never cooler.
"Traitor!" someone yells. "What happened to Woody Guthrie, Bob?" another
yells. Boos ring out, and Dylan, in a check suit and pointy shoes, drolly
steps to the microphone and says, "These aren't British songs, they're
American songs."
Beautifully audacious. In comes the guitar and drums, and Scorsese's camera
captures the backdrop: a huge, wall-size American flag. "Judas!" someone
else yells later. But it's too late by then. "Like a Rolling Stone" is
filling the hall -- rock 'n' roll has just put a knife in folk music." --
from the review at
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2005/07/18/DDGSLDOCIT1.DTL
The flag - Paris? Judas - Manchester? The "American songs" comment - London?
note in particular : "in a check suit and pointy shoes" - we know from
photos that the suit in Manchester was plain grey tweed, not the check
"rabbit" suit, which was, however, worn in Paris (with the flag backdrop)
and also at one (at least) of the London shows. Clever editing? Of course,
the critics are writing from memory, or notes taken with one of those
lightbulb pens in a dark screening room. It all adds to the suspense,
doesn't it? Such a pivotal moment!
"The film closes with more scenes from Dylan in the U.K.... Dylan tries to
introduce a song. The crowd howls. Dylan smiles his sly smile and leans
over to guitarist Robbie Robertson, and shouts over the din, "Play fucking
loud!" and the band launches into a glorious version of Like a Rolling
Stone."
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20050716/DYLA
N16/TPEntertainment/Film/?pageRequested=3
as said previously, we await with great interest...
Tricia
Patricia Jungwirth
>"Tombstone Blues" ("Highway 61 Revisited" alternate take, 1965):
>... There's a reliable report that it's the Chambers Brothers take, but
it's not established whether it will be
>the overdubbed version
Not sure how to read that - isn't the "Chambers Brothers take" just the
released take with the Bros' vocal accompaniment over-dubbed by Mr Wilson?
So wouldn't it be more natural to assume this is a different, genuinely
"alternate" take and has nothing to do with the Bros?
lowg...@ao1.com
[snip]
I was hoping you or someone else familiar with the tour would question some
of these discrepencies. What we've read so far surely raises a few
questions. Maybe the first question is why they would reissue Manchester
tracks on a BS release when they have plenty of other recordings. I hope
bd.com has not joined the parade of speculators...
maxenglish
pivotal Manchester "Judas" one (which could be used in the film over a
montage reel) doesn't mean it's the film from Manchester, or that there
is any film from Manchester.
Pennebaker, regarding 'Don't Look Back' said they didn't actually film
whole entire songs on the 1965 tour, though they recorded full songs on
audio. I don't know what Dylan's direction was to Pennebaker to film
for the 1966 tour, but there might be whole songs - at least I hope
that's the case.
Peter Stone Brown
"Patricia Jungwirth" <tric...@aardvark.net.au> wrote in message
news:3.0.32.20050721...@aardvark.net.au...
I think you mean Mr. Johnston.
Seth Kulick
: Seth Kulick wrote:
: > monic...@yahoo.com wrote:
: >
: > : "Don't Think Twice, It's Alright" (demo, 1963): already circulating
: >
: > It is? On what? Has there ever been any evidence that the band version
: > of Don't Think Twice that is mentioned on the liner notes actually exists?
: Still no evidence of the band version, but this is the version found on
: http://www.angelfire.com/wa/monicasdude/438.htm
: among other places.
oh, thanks, right, I have that. Forgot about it.
Bob Stacy
> : "Chimes of Freedom" - Live at the Newport Folk Festival, 1964 --
> : Video previously unseen, audio already circulating
>
> This was shown at the NY Dylan symposium, May 2004. My brother
> saw it and it's an understatement to say that he's eager to see it again.
Also, it's currently showing at the Experience Music Project.
*At the JBL Theater: Bob Dylan Live: 1963 - 1966*
Chimes Of Freedom - Newport Folk Festival, July 26, 1964 (eve)
This appears to be a complete (unedited) performance although the song doesn
’t seem quite as long as on the audio recording. Before starting, a joyous
and obviously wired Dylan says, " What’s this?" to a hat thrown on stage. He
uses his Gibson Nick Lucas Special guitar on this song and likely did so for
other songs during the set. At the end, Bob says, "Thank you, I love you"
and exits, but is ushered back on stage where he continues profusely (and
sloppily?) gushing more "Thank you, I love you"s to an appreciative
audience.
I somehow doubt the entire thing will be in the Scorsese film, but we might
hope. The before and the after were some of the best parts - helping to
define the mood of the evening and the rather off-the-wall state Bob was in.
-Bob Stacy
Bob Stacy
> "Tombstone Blues" ("Highway 61 Revisited" alternate take, 1965):
> previously uncirculating, unless this is the alternate version with the
> Chambers Bros. Reported as take #9 from 7/29/65, which is listed by
> Krogsgaard as an incomplete take. There's a reliable report that it's
> the Chambers Brothers take, but it's not established whether it will be
> the overdubbed version. The Columbia session records seem to confuse
> things further, since they describe the track involved as a
> "composite," a label that was not applied across-the-board to
> overdubbed tracks.
I presume much of the BS7 Chambers Bros. missinfo was due to early rumours
and speculations. To tell truth, I would tend to question reliability of a
report that says it might be the Chamber's Bros. take (with or without their
composited overdub) because:
1. The Tombstone take listed at bobdylan.com is take #9 [a long false
start].
2. That take would definitely be different from the take selected for
making the Chambers Bros. dub which was take12 from 7/29 (the officially
released take).
Ain't no more jim crow eating and magpie munching 'round here, no more, no
more.
-Bob Stacy
Bob Stacy
> monic...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >"Blowin' in the Wind" (live at New York's Town Hall, 1963): previously
> >uncirculating, and there's been a long argument about whether this
> >track, listed in Columbia's files, actually comes from the Town Hall
> >concert or was pulled from the October 1963 Carnegie Hall recording
>
> There's no "argument" It was performed at Town Hall and I think some
> contemporaneous report said it was performed at Carnegie although Columbia
> omits it from their Carnegie list. If the insiders claim is that this is
> from Town Hall, there's absolutely no reason to question it.
During Krogsgaard's researches through the Columbia records he established
and apparently verified as factual song lists for both the Town Hall and
Carnegie Hall concerts. He reported those in On The Tracks #7. Both
contained "Blowin' In The Wind". It's not certain whether he actually heard
the tapes (or selected portions of the tapes), but we are left to assume he
did know he was examining either a list of the actual songs played and/or a
list of songs on the tapes. You say there is some other Columbia list for
Carnegie which omits "Blowin' In The Wind"?
I agree, at this point there's certainly no reason to expect that the
"Blowin' in the Wind" on BS7 will not be the one from Town Hall.
> >"It's All Over Now, Baby Blue" ("Bringing It All Back Home" alternate
> >take, 1965): 2 outtakes known, only one circulates
>
> Krogsgaard reports only 2 known takes, and one was released. Why do you
> claim there are "2 outtakes known" (is this another 100% error)?
The two known takes of "Baby Blue" are:
January 13, 1965 7-10pm It's All Over Now, Baby Blue CO85272 Take 1C
January 15, 1965 2:30-5:30pm It's All Over Now, Baby Blue CO85290 Take
1C
But I vote we give Bill a solid half credit for the possibility of at least
one more outtake :-) Krogsgaard said recording sheets for the evening
session on January 14th weren't available but information from other sources
did indicate that "Baby Blue" had been played during the session. We might
assume that the session was recorded but don't necessarily know that
anything played was ever identified using a "designated" take number. Quite
possibly nothing was ever so numbered.
-Bob Stacy
lowg...@ao1.com
>
>But I vote we give Bill a solid half credit for the possibility of at least
>one more outtake :-) Krogsgaard said recording sheets for the evening
>session on January 14th weren't available
Sure, we can give Bill half-credit for getting his name wrong, but
Krogsgaard did indeed give us (unconfirmed) data for Jan 14. Why pretend?
"Unfortunately the tapes and recording
sheets for this evening session were not available, so the list is based
on information from other sources, among them the artists' contract [snip]
Studio A
Columbia Recording Studio
New York City, New York
January 14, 1965, 2:30-5:30 pm
Produced by Tom Wilson.
Engineers: Hallie and Dauria.
1. Love Minus Zero/No Limit CO85270 Take 1C
2. Love Minus Zero/No Limit Take 2C
3. Love Minus Zero/No Limit (Insert #1) Take 1
4. Subterranean Homesick Blues CO85275 Take 1C
5. Subterranean Homesick Blues Take 2b
6. Subterranean Homesick Blues Take 3C
7. Outlaw Blues CO85282 Take 1b
8. Outlaw Blues Take 2b
9. Outlaw Blues Take 3C
10. *Outlaw Blues (overdub) Take 1C
11. She Belongs To Me CO85283 Take 1C
12. She Belongs To Me Take 2C
13. Bob Dylan's 115th Dream CO85284 Take 1b
14. Bob Dylan's 115th Dream Take 2C
15. On The Road Again CO85285 Take 1b
16. On The Road Again Take 2C
17. On The Road Again Take 3b
18. On The Road Again Take 4C
19. Love Minus Zero/No Limit CO85270
20. I'll Keep It With Mine CO85271
21. It's All Over Now, Baby Blue CO85272
22. Bob Dylan's 115th Dream CO85273
23. She Belongs To Me CO85274
24. Subterranean Homesick Blues CO85275
1 "(Tune Z) Dimestore" on recording sheet.
11 and 12 "My Girl" on recording sheet.
Session 1 (track 1-18): 2:30 - 6:00 pm backed by Robert Gregg (drums),
Joseph
Macho jr. (bass), William E. Lee (bass), Bruce Langhorne (guitar), Al
Gorgoni
(guitar), Kenneth J. Rankin (guitar) and Paul L. Griffin (piano).
Session 2 (track 19-24): 7 - 10 pm backed by John Hammond jr. (guitar),
Bruce Langhorne (guitar), John Sebastian (bass guitar) and John Boone (bass
guitar).
2, 6, 10, 12 and 14 released on Bringing It All Back Home.
Bob Stacy
> Sure, we can give Bill half-credit for getting his name wrong, but
> Krogsgaard did indeed give us (unconfirmed) data for Jan 14. Why pretend?
Due to lack of any hard data, the original poster's statement "2 outtakes
known, only one circulates" is unsubstantiated - neither on technicality nor
otherwise. A second outtake is not known but rather only a session where
the song based on unconfirmed information is "supposed" to have been played.
Whether overzealousness leads to pretentions, I don't know -- anymore than
do I know that Krogsgaard's listing of the song for the session was his own
pretending that an actual take existed. For whatever reason, Krogs did make
the statement (p.107, The Telegraph #52), "On the evening of January 14 he
made a number of recordings with a different backing group, but none of
these tracks was used for the album." That certainly sounds like he
believed the tracks existed eventhough the tapes and recording sheets for
the session were not available. Was he pretending or did he have some good
reason to believe that there were recorded tracks ("BabyBlue" being one of
them)? For us to read his statement and to see the song so listed might
lead to assumptions (correct or not). In this case, said assumptions would
still be unconfirmed.
You're a tough grader but fair (we can respect that). In the same vein of
fairness, we might recognize that as needed, Bill has willingly been eating
considerable crow lately :-)
-Bob Stacy
lowg...@ao1.com
>we might recognize that as needed, Bill has willingly been eating
>considerable crow lately :-)
>
You make it sound trivial but before anyone begins to believe that
discographical disagreements are "only academic", let me point out that
there are scores of people downloading a torrent of Dublin '66 with "I Dont
Believe You" omitted because someone (Bill I suppose) complained that it
was released on Biograph, which of course it wasn't. Pity the newbies.
monic...@yahoo.com
torrent of discs 3&4 from GL66. The "Dublin" version there is just the
track from Biograph that GL66 "brazenly included," as you said on the
torrent site. The only reason it says "Dublin" in the info file is that
the uploader copied the "relabel" from GL66 packaging.
Where did you hear the real Dublin version that you talked about on the
torrent site, anyway?
Bob Stacy
"Bob Stacy" <bst...@comcast.net> wrote:
> >we might recognize that as needed, Bill has willingly been eating
> >considerable crow lately :-)
>
> You make it sound trivial but before anyone begins to believe that
> discographical disagreements are "only academic",
I'm glad you discovered the comedy relief part because I can assure you the
preceding subject of discussion was not in anyway being trivialized. If you
feel it was, that's your own connection and not the one intended. I
recognize you have a long history of doing Dylan things seriously,
accurately & quite discographically. I think you know I do the same. Let's
keep it at that level and on topic, and I'll try to limit my :-) comments if
those have become an impending factor.
> let me point out that
> there are scores of people downloading a torrent of Dublin '66 with "I
Dont
> Believe You" omitted because someone (Bill I suppose) complained that it
> was released on Biograph, which of course it wasn't. Pity the newbies.
Er, but that seems to have little relevancy in a discussion of BS7 and
studio takes of "Baby Blue". If that's an issue you care to talk about -
including your own suppositions about Bill - perhaps another thread topic
might be better suited. Those interested could join you there.
-Bob Stacy
lowg...@ao1.com
I've posted a cancel for my message dated today 7/23, which was just wrong.
If your newserver doesn't cancel it, please ignore it.