Source of "Ballad of Hollis Brown" ?

radioacti...@gmail.com

unread,

Feb 28, 2014, 12:58:49 PM2/28/14

to

We all know that "The Lonesome Death of Hattie Carroll" is a true story of which Dylan read a news account, and that the resultant composition didn't even change the names (except for dropping one T in the perp's surname). We also know that it is widely said that Dylan often based other of his songs--e.g., "Who Killed Davey Moore?"--on such news accounts.

Thus I'm curious about "The Ballad of Hollis Brown", which, notably, Dylan not only opened his remarkable "Live Aid" set with in July 1985, but also broke format and used to open the first of three Philadelphia concerts in January 1974.

The way the lyrics read, it sure seems like a true, if horrifically sad, story. Yet I can find absolutely no evidence of any South Dakota farmer named Hollis Brown who massacred his family and self, or in fact ANY such story out of the Dakotas in the era for which Dylan might have merely changed the names.

Can anyone shed some light on this question? Thanks much in advance!

BRYAN STYBLE/Florida

Willie

unread,

Feb 28, 2014, 1:46:51 PM2/28/14

to

The truth will out, I'm sure. I've read that on the Witmark Demos recording, Bob introduces the song saying it's a true story (can't find that online so will have to confirm from home later). But I'm guessing, since you tried and I don't see anything on RMD or Expecting Rain clarifying this, that Bob created the story. Surprising that this isn't easy to determine. I would think it's been discussed repeatedly on RMD, but can't find it.

khematite

unread,

Feb 28, 2014, 1:52:09 PM2/28/14

to

On Friday, February 28, 2014 12:58:49 PM UTC-5, radioacti...@gmail.com wrote:

No one's ever been able to pin this one down definitively and there's a good chance no one ever will. But here are a couple of interesting links:

http://www.celestialmonochord.org/2006/03/hollis_browns_s.html

http://www.lizlyle.lofgrens.org/LyleJour/HollisBrown.html

Though it's highly unlikely that Dylan ever heard "The Murder of the Lawson Family" by the Carolina Buddies prior to writing his song, it (along with "Pretty Polly") does suggest that these themes were in the air in folk circles at the time.

khematite

unread,

Feb 28, 2014, 2:07:14 PM2/28/14

to

Here's a link to a list of "familicides" in the US, dating back as far as the early 19th century. But it's obviously not complete, since it doesn't have the Johnson family murder that took place in Minnesota in 1933, less than a decade before Dylan was born and just a two or three hours drive from Hibbing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_familicides_in_the_United_States

http://stories-i-tell.blogspot.com/2008/07/75-year-old-murder-mystery.html

Willie

unread,

Feb 28, 2014, 3:23:31 PM2/28/14

to

Why am I not surprised that you found pertinent information in the Journal of the Institute for Astrophysics and the Hillbilly Blues. Why didn't I think to look there?

Will Dockery

unread,

Mar 1, 2014, 5:22:03 AM3/1/14

to

"khematite" <khem...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:fccf52d4-e293-4d05...@googlegroups.com...

*** Thanks once again, K!

I had thought that "Hollis Brown" was, like so many Dylan, Phil Ochs, David
Blue et al songs of that era and genre were taken from a newspaper clipping
of the day... I never once considered that Hollis Brown would possibly be a
fictional character of Dylan's

And so it goes...

--
Check out Idle Hour Night / Will Dockery & The Shadowville All-Stars -
http://www.reverbnation.com/willdockery/song/15928895-idle-hour-night--dockery-mallard

Willie

unread,

Feb 28, 2014, 3:47:39 PM2/28/14

to

On Friday, February 28, 2014 1:52:09 PM UTC-5, khematite wrote:

Slight change of topic, but chilling as Pretty Polly is, check out Patty's grinning as she sings Polly:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XV7mxfIIr0

She's grinning even after he tells her that her guess is about right.

khematite

unread,

Mar 1, 2014, 6:17:10 PM3/1/14

to

On Friday, February 28, 2014 3:47:39 PM UTC-5, Willie wrote:
>
> Slight change of topic, but chilling as Pretty Polly is, check out Patty's grinning as she sings Polly:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XV7mxfIIr0
>
> She's grinning even after he tells her that her guess is about right.

Surprised that Loveless is also heartless? Anyway, as long as we're all enjoying murder ballads, here's Dylan doing one in Las Vegas in 2012:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XU28OZUuBx8

Willie

unread,

Mar 2, 2014, 5:09:34 PM3/2/14

to

Finally a murder ballad where (in the historical basis) Willie isn't the perpetrator. Apparently the shooting of Delia Green by Mose Houston took place at the Savannah home of Willie West, who chased down Houston after the shooting and turned him in.

M. Rick

unread,

Mar 3, 2014, 10:13:32 AM3/3/14

to

>Surprised that Loveless is also heartless?

In case anyone didn't know, she married and divorced a guy named Lovelace. Down South it sounds like Loveless. So the combination (sound + heartache) inspired the name change. If I'm remembering the story right.