Why cant Dylan pronounce mirror?
PO BOY 1971
right. Especially in Abandoned Love
Po' Trev
many) it affects how he pronounces his word during singing.
--
Thanks
Trev
Walkin' through the leaves, fallin' from the trees
feel like stranger nobody see's
Bob Dylan - Mississippi
"PO BOY 1971" <pobo...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20011225150640...@mb-mf.aol.com...
John Howells
<Every song when he says mirror is hilarious to me. He just cant pronounce it
<right. Especially in Abandoned Love
Every American I've ever heard pronounces it as "meer", including
yours truly. I thought it was only Englishmen who pronounced stuffily
as "mere-oar" :-) :-)
--
John Howells
how...@punkhart.com
http://www.punkhart.com
Bob Hughes
>pobo...@aol.com (PO BOY 1971) writes:
>
><Every song when he says mirror is hilarious to me. He just cant pronounce it
><right. Especially in Abandoned Love
>
>Every American I've ever heard pronounces it as "meer", including
>yours truly. I thought it was only Englishmen who pronounced stuffily
>as "mere-oar" :-) :-)
I thought only people in Minnesota talked like that. Perhaps it
extends to the whole mid-west? Certainly no one over here in the
civilized (northeastern) part of America ever said "meer".
Bob Hughes
Who Drew Superman?-Superman artists from the golden and silver age profiled at:
http://members.ttlc.net/~bobhughes/superart.htm
"Information is not knowledge; knowledge is not wisdom; wisdom is not truth; truth is not beauty; beauty is not love; love is not music. Music is best."
Frank Zappa
Po' Trev
I wouldn't mind if mere looked like mere and mirror looked like meer.
but.... :-) the word is "mirror" therefore in speech the I and double R
should be pronounced.
miiiiiiii rrrrrrr or or something.
oh I know what you'll say next "Je ne comprend pas" or something.
Its all about accent and although I'm joking, I do like the way bob phrases
it.
--
Thanks
Trev
Walkin' through the leaves, fallin' from the trees
feel like stranger nobody see's
Bob Dylan - Mississippi
"PO BOY 1971" <pobo...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20011225150640...@mb-mf.aol.com...
Mad Dan
> pobo...@aol.com (PO BOY 1971) writes:
>
> <Every song when he says mirror is hilarious to me. He just cant pronounce it
> <right. Especially in Abandoned Love
>
> Every American I've ever heard pronounces it as "meer", including
> yours truly. I thought it was only Englishmen who pronounced stuffily
> as "mere-oar" :-) :-)
"Mi-" (as in 'Mickey') "ra," actually.
But I think your answer's right - he pronounces it like that because he's a Yank.
Debra Lind
of the U.S.
BrianBPH
>From: Bob Hughes BobH...@2ttlc.net
>Date: Tue, Dec 25, 2001 7:24 PM
>Message-id: <n36i2uopio17a493i...@4ax.com>
>
>how...@best.com (John Howells) wrote:
>
>>pobo...@aol.com (PO BOY 1971) writes:
>>
>><Every song when he says mirror is hilarious to me. He just cant pronounce
>it
>><right. Especially in Abandoned Love
>>
>>Every American I've ever heard pronounces it as "meer", including
>>yours truly. I thought it was only Englishmen who pronounced stuffily
>>as "mere-oar" :-) :-)
>
>I thought only people in Minnesota talked like that. Perhaps it
>extends to the whole mid-west? Certainly no one over here in the
>civilized (northeastern) part of America ever said "meer".
>Bob Hughes
I wonder how Bob would pronounce "Cuba?" :-)
Brian
Ray Baldwin
>>>>Po' Trev wrote:
> the mere thought of saying meer, sends me mad with mere madness.
>
> I wouldn't mind if mere looked like mere and mirror looked like meer.
>
> but.... :-) the word is "mirror" therefore in speech the I and double R
> should be pronounced.
>
> miiiiiiii rrrrrrr or or something.<<<<
Ya look inta amirra down here, Trev. Of course us crass Aussies tend to
corrupt the Queen's English just as much as the Americans. Then again, if you
think of it, so do the English!
> >>>>oh I know what you'll say next "Je ne comprend pas" or something.<<<<
Dunno what ya mean there, mate!
> >>>>Its all about accent and although I'm joking, I do like the way bob
> phrases
> it.<<<<
Looking around, it seems Bob might be in the forefront of cultural change as
is his want. According to the piece below the "r" could be on the way out in
certain words due to educational and spelling changes:
. . . The history of h and r in modern times is an instructive instance of
how pronunciation may be controlled by a changing spelling. It is certain that
if English had been left to itself the sound h would have been as completely
lost in the standard language as it has been in most of the dialects. But the
distinction between house and 'ouse, although in itself a comparatively slight
one, being easily marked in writing, such spellings as 'ouse came to be used
in novels, &c. as an easy way of suggesting a vulgar speaker. The result was
to produce a purely artificial reaction against the natural tendency to drop
the h, its retention being now considered an almost infallible test of
education and refinement. The weakening of r into a vowel, and its absorption
into the vowel that precedes it, although really quite as injurious to the
force and intelligibility of the language as the dropping of h, not being
easily marked in writing, passes unheeded, and, indeed, few people realise the
fact that they make no difference whatever between such words as father and
farther. Indeed, if such a reformed spelling as Glossic is adopted, in which
these artificial distinctions are still kept up, there is no reason why in the
next half century r may not utterly disappear everywhere except initially;
hear, for instance, becoming
identical in sound with he. . .
more at:
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/5037/srvar.html
. . . and an example of supposed Michigan accents (similar dialect region as
Bob's childhood area?) . . .
Mier": Mirror. Don' lookin the mier... yull breakit.
http://www.ericweaver.com/stories/michiganaccent.html
It's possible that Bob's pronunciation of mirror/meer is merely an afflictive
reflection of his cultural dialectical inflexions ;-)
Ray.
Wolfds
>I wonder how Bob would pronounce "Cuba?" :-)
>
>Brian
>
No need to wonder. Just listen to "Who Killed Davey Moore?".
Dave
karen
>
> <Every song when he says mirror is hilarious to me. He just cant pronounce it
> <right. Especially in Abandoned Love
>
> Every American I've ever heard pronounces it as "meer", including
> yours truly. I thought it was only Englishmen who pronounced stuffily
> as "mere-oar" :-) :-)
Especially in B'klyn. ;) People also prnounce drawers (dresser,
bureau) as draw.
Well mirror takes more effort than meer it also doesn't rhyme with
near or clear. Does mirror rhyme with anything?
Bob seems to like to drop the last sounds of words on a lot of lines.
I notice it on the sugarbaby versions. bubble will "bur" a thousand
times "wor".
Hope everyone had a fun filled holiday. Mountains of food and drink
consumed at my homestead. My family apologized before I started to
open my gifts that they couldn't find anything Bobish this year that I
didn't have already. They felt they had let me down, it was very
funny. I loved the gifts anyway even though there was NDC.
Onlya Hobo
Ray Baldwin <ray...@ihug.com.au> wrote in message
news:3C29C7EE...@ihug.com.au...
A1pump
>yours truly. I thought it was only Englishmen who pronounced stuffily
>as "mere-oar" :-) :-)
Well as I posted long ago during one of the many mirror/veneer debates, in New
York City it's always been mirrer, but upstate I always heard meer. i guess
it's another example of New York being right and the rest of the world going
crazy.
Peter Stone Brown
"Wolfds" <wol...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20011225211257...@mb-fs.aol.com...
Even better listen to "I Shall Be Free #10."
--
"The game is the same, it's just up on another level." --Bob Dylan
Peter Stone Brown
e-mail: ps...@earthlink.net
http://store.yahoo.com/tangible-music/petstonbrowi.html
Peter Stone Brown
"Bob Hughes" <BobH...@2ttlc.net> wrote in message
news:n36i2uopio17a493i...@4ax.com...
> how...@best.com (John Howells) wrote:
>
>
> I thought only people in Minnesota talked like that. Perhaps it
> extends to the whole mid-west? Certainly no one over here in the
> civilized (northeastern) part of America ever said "meer".
What part of the civilized Northeast are you talking about? You should hear
how it's pronounced in Northeast Philly though maybe that's not so
civilized.
Linn Carpenter
pronounce it that way. I often do. If you listen to the Everly
Brothers version of this song on their Born Yesterday album, they also
pronounce it as "meer".
Linn
"Heard ten thousand whisperin' and nobody listenin'" - Bob Dylan
Groucho
PO BOY 1971 wrote:
> Every song when he says mirror is hilarious to me. He just cant pronounce it
> right. Especially in Abandoned Love
He should just do it in an Aussie accent, and say 'mirr-ah'
Groucho
-----------
remove the nospam_ in the email address before replying
AnthnyKhl
pronounces as "barry"...Thank Michael Gray 4 that 1...By the way I think a lot
of it is to make the word fit the rhyme scheme...
Martin killeen
> >
> > Every song when he says mirror is hilarious to me. He just cant pronounce it
> > right. Especially in Abandoned Love
He means 'mere' = small lake or pond, where you can see reflections :)
Martin
Delia
of things rhyme with "meer" and I don't think anything rhymes with
"mir-ror."
--
Delia
You can always come back, but you can't come back all the way.
"Linn Carpenter" <new...@home.com> wrote in message
news:3C2954A1...@home.com...
frinjdwelr
"AnthnyKhl" <anth...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20011226073656...@mb-cv.aol.com...
> Other words he has difficulty in pronouncing include "bury" which he
always
> pronounces as "barry"...
Again, as with meer, everyone in the midwest pronounces bury this way. It
would seem stilted and pretentious for him to pronounce it any other way.
Tumulty
> Well as I posted long ago during one of the many mirror/veneer debates, in New
> York City it's always been mirrer, but upstate I always heard meer. i guess
> it's another example of New York being right and the rest of the world going
> crazy.
You must be remembering when G the Elder called Ronnie's economics
" blue smoke and meers" during the Republican Presidential Party
campaigne debates. I'm pretty sure Minnesota was the only state that
didn't vote for Ronnie. Another example of MN being right and the
rest..?
Isn't that what you mean?
T.
Franklin Jennings
Bob Hughes wrote:
> how...@best.com (John Howells) wrote:
>
>
>>pobo...@aol.com (PO BOY 1971) writes:
>>
>><Every song when he says mirror is hilarious to me. He just cant pronounce it
>><right. Especially in Abandoned Love
>>
>>Every American I've ever heard pronounces it as "meer", including
>>yours truly. I thought it was only Englishmen who pronounced stuffily
>>as "mere-oar" :-) :-)
>>
>
> I thought only people in Minnesota talked like that. Perhaps it
> extends to the whole mid-west? Certainly no one over here in the
> civilized (northeastern) part of America ever said "meer".
When did witch burning become civilised?
Franklin Jennings
Mad Dan wrote:
> how...@best.com (John Howells) wrote in message news:<e88W7.4402$He.7...@sea-read.news.verio.net>...
>
>>pobo...@aol.com (PO BOY 1971) writes:
>>
>><Every song when he says mirror is hilarious to me. He just cant pronounce it
>><right. Especially in Abandoned Love
>>
>>Every American I've ever heard pronounces it as "meer", including
>>yours truly. I thought it was only Englishmen who pronounced stuffily
>>as "mere-oar" :-) :-)
>>
>
> "Mi-" (as in 'Mickey') "ra," actually.
thats the southern pronounciation as well.
President_dudley
<20011225150640...@mb-mf.aol.com>...
>Every song when he says mirror is hilarious to me. He just cant pronounce
it
>right. Especially in Abandoned Love
Delia wrote in message ...
>It's a good, poetic word with lots of implications and associations. Lots
>of things rhyme with "meer" and I don't think anything rhymes with
>"mir-ror."
>
>--
>Delia
>
Goodman (midWesterner, I believe) used a neer-correct (meer-er, not
meer-oar) pronounciation to good effect:
}
The judgment day is getting nearer
Here it comes in my rear-view mirror
If you'd duck down I could see a little clearer
All over this world
--The Twentieth Century Is Almost Over
}
But what do I know?
dudley
___
BTW, how does dYlna do with "water"? Should it be wah-ter? waw-ter? wood-er?
A lot hangs in the balance
Bob Hughes
>
>
>Bob Hughes wrote:
>>
>> I thought only people in Minnesota talked like that. Perhaps it
>> extends to the whole mid-west? Certainly no one over here in the
>> civilized (northeastern) part of America ever said "meer".
>
>
>
>When did witch burning become civilised?
>
>
I guess I should have made an exception of Massachusetts. I think
they put three syllables in "mir-ro-ah" there.
Tricia J
<frinj...@charter.net> wrote:
>
>"AnthnyKhl" <anth...@aol.com> wrote in message
>news:20011226073656...@mb-cv.aol.com...
>> Other words he has difficulty in pronouncing include "bury" which he
>always
>> pronounces as "barry"...
>
>Again, as with meer, everyone in the midwest pronounces bury this way. It
>would seem stilted and pretentious for him to pronounce it any other way.
someone commented yesterday when we were listening to "New Morning" (a
great Christmas/Boxing Day record, by the way), on the way he
pronounces "singing" in 'Day of the Locust' - "sanging". Is that a
midwestern thang too?
Tricia J
<dud...@cloud9.net> wrote:
>___
>BTW, how does dYlna do with "water"? Should it be wah-ter? waw-ter? wood-er?
>
>A lot hangs in the balance
think it's kinda "whater".... anyway, he does his "w's" real nice
BlueEyz222
>Date: 12/27/2001 6:58 AM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <3c2b0c9b...@news.aardvark.net.au>
In VOJ I always thought he was saying:
"Louise she's all right she's just near
She's delicate and seems like (veneer)"
(the mirror)
Stephen
Howard Mirowitz
Tricia J <tric...@aardvark.net.au> wrote in message
news:3c2b0c9b...@news.aardvark.net.au...
It is in Missouri, where I'm originally from. Also "windah" for "window",
as we hear in "Can You Please Jump Out Your Window?"
H.
nates
nates
> Well mirror takes more effort than meer it also doesn't rhyme with
> near or clear. Does mirror rhyme with anything?
oops...
make that
well, i once rhymed mirror with nearer:
oh, there's no way to know what you must go through
when i still want to be nearer
you keep your eyes low and nod with each word
but inside my full-length mirror
there's too many places that bend and rearrange
the picture you'd really want to see......
(etc.)
& of course, i pronounce "nearer" in a dylanesque
kind of way...
- nate
BLATCHER2
Denis
Bring you through the mirror.
EVERY GRAIN OF SAND
In the broken mirror of innocence on each forgotten face.
MAMA, YOU BEEN ON MY MIND
When you wake up in the mornin', baby, look inside your mirror.
LAY DOWN YOUR WEARY TUNE
I gazed down in the river's mirror
TELL ME, MOMMA
0l' black Bascom, don't break no mirrors
POLITICAL WORLD
Life is in mirrors, death disappears
ABANDONED LOVE
I love to see you dress before the mirror
BILLY
There's eyes behind the mirrors in empty places
CHANGING OF THE GUARDS
The palace of mirrors
DIGNITY
In a crowded room full of covered up mirrors
VISIONS OF JOHANNA
She's delicate and seems like the mirror
NO TIME TO THINK
You glance through the mirror and there's eyes staring clear
LILY, ROSEMARY AND THE JACK OF HEARTS
He moved across the mirrored room, "Set it up for everyone," he said,
Howard Mirowitz
It evoked the stream-of-consciousness comments below.
Thanks for the research --
H.
Denis <de...@elvis.com> wrote in message
news:3d2e1d23.02010...@posting.google.com...
> WENT TO SEE THE GYPSY
> Bring you through the mirror.
Like Alice's trip through the looking-glass in Lewis Carroll's famous novel,
the Gypsy offers transcendence. But when Dylan's narrator returns from the
lobby, the Gypsy is gone, and it's back to that little Minnesota town. You
can get to the other side of the mirror, but you can't stay there forever.
>
> EVERY GRAIN OF SAND
> In the broken mirror of innocence on each forgotten face.
Adam and Eve in the Garden can never return to a state of innocence, just
as a broken mirror can't be put back together. For every one of us, a point
comes when we lose our innocence. It's such an expected event in our lives
that we forget how deeply it reflects Adam and Eve's original loss.
>
> MAMA, YOU BEEN ON MY MIND
> When you wake up in the mornin', baby, look inside your mirror.
I've always wondered why Dylan wrote "look inside your mirror" rather than
"look *into* your mirror". Unlike most mirrors, this one doesn't merely
reflect things; it has something inside it, something that needs to be
discovered. Is it the mirror of her own soul?
>
> LAY DOWN YOUR WEARY TUNE
> I gazed down in the river's mirror
>
> TELL ME, MOMMA
> 0l' black Bascom, don't break no mirrors
The old superstition that breaking a mirror brings bad luck?
>
> POLITICAL WORLD
> Life is in mirrors, death disappears
See comments below under "Dignity" re Jewish funerals.
>
> ABANDONED LOVE
> I love to see you dress before the mirror
>
> BILLY
> There's eyes behind the mirrors in empty places
>
> CHANGING OF THE GUARDS
> The palace of mirrors
This may refer to the hall of mirrors at Versailles, where many armistice
and treaty agreements have been signed.
>
> DIGNITY
> In a crowded room full of covered up mirrors
In Jewish tradition, after a funeral the family and friends of the deceased
return to the deceased's home where the immediate family remains for seven
days, mourning, praying three times per day, wearing torn clothing and
sitting only on low stools. All mirrors in the house are covered, because
the vanity of attending to one's appearance is not considered appropriate
for mourners.
>
> VISIONS OF JOHANNA
> She's delicate and seems like the mirror
Mirror, mirror on the wall,
Who is the fairest one of all? ...
What does Dylan's narrator see in Johanna? Himself? His lover?
And in the end, these visions of Johanna are now all that remain.
>
> NO TIME TO THINK
> You glance through the mirror and there's eyes staring clear
>
> LILY, ROSEMARY AND THE JACK OF HEARTS
> He moved across the mirrored room, "Set it up for everyone," he said,
Remember the famous scene from "Citizen Kane" where Orson Welles walks
through a hall of mirrors, in which we see his infinitely reflected image?
Tricia J
<miro...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>>
>> TELL ME, MOMMA
>> 0l' black Bascom, don't break no mirrors
>
>The old superstition that breaking a mirror brings bad luck?
but what he sings is "cold black glass don't make no mirror",
the preceding line being "cold black water don't make no tears"
interesting take on fakery
>> VISIONS OF JOHANNA
>> She's delicate and seems like the mirror
>
>Mirror, mirror on the wall,
>Who is the fairest one of all? ...
>What does Dylan's narrator see in Johanna? Himself? His lover?
>And in the end, these visions of Johanna are now all that remain.
It's Louise who's "like the mirror", not Johanna
Denis
devorahmuse
extends to the whole mid-west? Certainly no one over here in the
civilized (northeastern) part of America ever said "meer".
OH YEAH...it's midwest all the way....
now if it's into Minnesota it tends to try for extra RRRR's...like; "meer-rrr"
Denis
> the preceding line being "cold black water don't make no tears"
> interesting take on fakery
nope,not always "cold black glass".the phrase varifies from different
versions of that song.Anyhow,that's the pristine,copyrighted version
which can be found at bobdylan.com .
Tricia J
it differs, but it is _never_ the 'Ol' black Bascom' line, surely?
Delia
--
Delia
You can always come back, but you can't come back all the way.
"Howard Mirowitz" <miro...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:CEzY7.19991$2g6.22...@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
He does this with prepositions a lot. We expect one thing and we get
something just a little different that makes us shift and disturb our
perspective.
> > LAY DOWN YOUR WEARY TUNE
> > I gazed down in the river's mirror
Here's another shift I like. You can think of a pond or a lake as a mirror
because it's still. But a river isn't. It's in turbulent motion. So how
is it a mirror? Does it reflect his equally turbulent soul?
<snip>
To all these other instances and comments I would add this:
Mirrors are deceptive. They produce optical illusions and the appearance of
depth where none exists. They show only the surface of things.
Denis
featured on "the bootleg series vol4".As a matter of fact,English
isn´t my native language,I can be mistaken but I don´t think so:-)