Will Yakuza furor ruin Dylan's Oscar chances?
Candy
Saga. But the controversy may cost him an Oscar for Masked and
Anonymous. (I have not seen it but some people here say it is
brilliant.) The Hollywood bunch are funny that way.
Cpyle4bob
Jim (Guitar Centre Records)
I am sure that time will show that every line of this amazing record has
been 'stolen' from some source or other. And when we have tracked them all
down and congratulated ourselves, we shall be no nearer to understanding the
genius of the man who assembled this unique collage like some crazy cosmic
magpie.
Take Bob's art to apart piece by piece and you prove nothing.
The sea is made from individual drops. You could track each one down the
river or cloud it sprang from, but you wouldn't touch the majesty of the
ocean.
Keep stealin' Bob !!!!!
"Candy" <ca...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
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John Howells
<bob's got nothing to prove....
Dylan has Oscar chances?
--
John Howells
how...@punkhart.com
http://www.punkhart.com
John Howells
<The album was called Love and THEFT ! That was the whole point/joke.
<I am sure that time will show that every line of this amazing record has
<been 'stolen' from some source or other. And when we have tracked them all
<down and congratulated ourselves, we shall be no nearer to understanding the
<genius of the man who assembled this unique collage like some crazy cosmic
<magpie.
<Take Bob's art to apart piece by piece and you prove nothing.
<The sea is made from individual drops. You could track each one down the
<river or cloud it sprang from, but you wouldn't touch the majesty of the
<ocean.
<Keep stealin' Bob !!!!!
It wouldn't surprise me to find that all of "Honest With Me" was
lifted from other sources. That song never made any sense to me,
and now I understand why: it's just random phrases thrown together.
I would rather Dylan not write any more songs than to write them
like this.
I have a feeling that this incident will cause a lot of damage to
Bob's reputation.
John Dunne
> like this.
Totally agree, John
> I have a feeling that this incident will cause a lot of damage to
> Bob's reputation.
And rightly so.
Best wishes,
John
John A. James
> It wouldn't surprise me to find that all of "Honest With Me" was
> lifted from other sources. That song never made any sense to me
That's the only Dylan song that never made sense to you?
> I would rather Dylan not write any more songs than to write them
> like this.
That's a tad harsh, don't you think?
John J.
frosty
Oscar for the soundtrack, maybe, is what you're talking about?
I love Bob Dylan's _music_ but doubt that the _film_ or his acting
in the film are "brilliant."
-- frosty
Trev Gibb
T
"John Howells" <how...@punkhart.com> wrote in message
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Ironywaves
"Trev Gibb" <Trev...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:8%IPa.905$Bf7...@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk...
> I disagree John. It makes no difference.
>
> T
It makes plenty of difference.
Dockery
Ironywaves
news:bempa6$qqb$1...@titan.btinternet.com...
> The album was called Love and THEFT ! That was the whole point/joke.
It's not a joke. No matter how graciously Mr. Saga takes it, no writer
appreciates having his words taken by someone else. Esp. one that made
bunches of $$$ and turned a lot of heads with nice wordplay... Damn. I'd
sure like to hear what Dylan's got to say about this.
Dockery
Ironywaves
news:20030711103800...@mb-m20.aol.com...
> bob's got nothing to prove....
Obviously.
Will
Jim (Guitar Centre Records)
To complain that Dylan has used some lines from an obscure text and
therefore should not be writing any more is just plain STUPID.
Picasso used the colour red in his paintings. This colour had been used
before in paintings dating back to the cave walls. What people saw was
Picasso's USE of the colour.
Dylan has used some phrases from Yakuza, but you would have to be a blind,
deaf, imbecilic fuck-head not to see that he has made some fantastic new art
from these phrases.
Throughout his career he has quoted and alluded to the Bible.. just read the
book of Isaiah and then listen to John Wesley Harding. He is very well
read, it's well known.
It is called making great art. Get used to it.
Jim
"frosty" <fro...@nospam.com> wrote in message
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Ironywaves
> Oh come ON now !!!!
>
> To complain that Dylan has used some lines from an obscure text and
> therefore should not be writing any more is just plain STUPID.
>
> Picasso used the colour red in his paintings. This colour had been used
> before in paintings dating back to the cave walls. What people saw was
> Picasso's USE of the colour.
This is an incredibly stupid point. He didn't shout the word "now". He
lifted entire phrases and claimed them as his own, as "by" Bob Dylan. it's
closer to what Litchenstein did with comix artists like Steve ditko to make
his "paintings".
Dockery
Jim (Guitar Centre Records)
you go an practice law somewhere and stop cluttering up this Dylan
newsgroup.
Yakuza is flattered that Dylan has 'sampled' him. His story was perfectly
in keeping with what Dylan wanted to say on Love and Theft.
Get over it or go back to law school.
Jim
"Ironywaves" <irony...@knology.net> wrote in message
news:vgvlqkp...@corp.supernews.com...
Therebutfor
and nothiing to lose.
But he'll never be invisible.
Bill
Candy <ca...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<juzPa.391416$VP.60...@twister.neo.rr.com>...
Pink
a very clever way, making great music.. and all you can say is something as
close-minded as that.
"John Howells" <how...@punkhart.com> wrote in message
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D.G. Devin
What Oscar would he be in line for, Best Unintentional Comedy? And a
little plagiarism wouldn't bother the folks in Hollywood, that's standard
business practice there.
D.G. Devin
>I have a feeling that this incident will cause a lot of damage to
>Bob's reputation.
Good grief, why? The public isn't going to suddenly stop liking Dylan's
classic songs because of this, even if they know about it. Who is left to
suddenly hold him in contempt, hardcore fans who spend a little too much
time wondering what The Great One had for breakfast and what meaning there
is in him preferring orange juice to grapefruit? If anything this might
establish that Dylan is wider-read than we previously realized, it's not
like these lyrics were allegedly inspired by the National Enquirer.
Ironywaves
> If you're really so worried about the legal implications of this why don't
> you go an practice law somewhere and stop cluttering up this Dylan
> newsgroup.
I think I'll stay.
> Yakuza is flattered that Dylan has 'sampled' him. His story was perfectly
> in keeping with what Dylan wanted to say on Love and Theft.
>
>
> Get over it or go back to law school.
>
> Jim
Why don't you? The Picasso comparison was *way* off, and I commented on it.
And will continue to.
anthony perry
My take on Love & Theft is that Dylan played the ultimate prank on everyone. It used to be people tripped over themselves to talk about Dylan's rapidly plunging career. When Time Out Of Mind arrived it was an amazing show of talent, meant to prove to the world that the Muse was back. When it was announced that Love And Theft was going to be released, too many people looked up the title on amazon.com and came back with reports that this album shares the name of a book about black face minstrel shows and black face in general. The questions were all the same, 'what does this cryptic message mean'?
I believe that Dylan intentionally released Love And Theft an album so terrible and laughable to see the reactions of the fans and press. I think Dylan knew the album was bad (every song's music is so generic, bland and so typical of whatever style he is trying to play that it rapidly wears out it's intention; furthermore, the lyrics seemed to be nothing more than bad comedy jokes from the cast of the Dean Martin Roast) and I think Dylan wanted to see if everyone would fawn all over him.
Why would he do this? The press were pretty contemptible towards him in the 80's and it wasn't until 1989's Oh Mercy and his first Bootleg Series that people began taking him seriously again. Add to that fact that Time Out Of Mind caused virtually all of us to hyperventilate, I think Dylan decided he was don a mask (ala blackface) and present himself as this old vaudevillian artist whose work was mediocre, cliched and filled with one bad joke after another. It was, in a nutshell, Dylan as Weird Al.
When the press went crazy and the Dylan list went crazy, both with over adulation heaped upon Love & Theft, I can imagine Dylan laughing about how gullible everyone was. So he stole lyrics (he comes from a folk background where it is common place; check out Talking Poetry With The Taxman and you'll find Billy Bragg copped the music from "Chimes Of Freedom" for "Ideology" and never credited Dylan). What everyone should be concerned about, more than his pinching of the occasional lyric, is finding the answer to the question: is Love & Theft one huge private joke, one huge "gotcha!" from Dylan himself? Myself, that's the only way I can even pull out Love & Theft to give it a listen. And it's not that often I want to hear the bard doing a bad Henny Youngman impersonation. If I want to hear good comedy rock from Dylan I'll listen to "I Shall Be Free" or "Motorpsycho Nightmare" or "Bob Dylan's 115th Dream", but you'll not get me to play Love & Theft. I truly do believe that Self Portrait is the better of the two albums. In other words, to my ears, Love & Theft ranks in the bottom five worst Dylan albums.
tony
Dale Goodvin
Myself, that's the only way I can even pull out Love & Theft to give it a listen. And it's not that often I want to hear the bard doing a bad Henny Youngman impersonation.
love and theft was the first dylan album I ever heard that utterly perplexed me. What was he doing? Isn’t his voice way to ragged, even for him, this time? Why is he saying that he has nothing to say anymore and that his writing would never do “you justice in rhythm or rhyme?” Why the hell is he crooning? Egads!!
So I kept listening and listening and listening and now I love this album.
His voice is powerful and perfect. He has nothing to say compared to the immense reality of a person’s life (he’s just a song and dance man). He croons because he wants to.
Give it a try.
Dale
bigjim
> It wouldn't surprise me to find that all of "Honest With Me" was
> lifted from other sources. That song never made any sense to me,
> and now I understand why: it's just random phrases thrown together.
> I would rather Dylan not write any more songs than to write them
> like this.
>
> I have a feeling that this incident will cause a lot of damage to
> Bob's reputation.
your kidding no! after 42 years of music making his reputation is at
stake? because he twisted phrases to fit his song on a great recording
in 2001
bigjim
> It wouldn't surprise me to find that all of "Honest With Me" was
> lifted from other sources. That song never made any sense to me,
> and now I understand why: it's just random phrases thrown together.
> I would rather Dylan not write any more songs than to write them
> like this.
>
> I have a feeling that this incident will cause a lot of damage to
> Bob's reputation.
your kidding no! after 42 years of music making his reputation is at
John Howells
Mad Dan
> If you're really so worried about the legal implications of this why don't
> you go an practice law somewhere and stop cluttering up this Dylan
> newsgroup.
>
> Yakuza is flattered that Dylan has 'sampled' him. His story was perfectly
> in keeping with what Dylan wanted to say on Love and Theft.
>
>
> Get over it or go back to law school.
>
> Jim
>
A tad defensive aren't we?
Ironywaves
"Mad Dan" <mad...@keepitloud.com> wrote in message
news:badf481.03071...@posting.google.com...
I have and will defend Dylan in a lot of cases, but not in the case of this
obvious plagerism.
Dockery
Tricia J
wrote:
phew! I thought you must be kidding, John.
John Howells
What's to kid about? The newspapers and tv news around here covered
it quite extensively, and always as if it were some great revelation
of fraud and deceit. The public at large probably thinks Dylan is
a has-been phoney, and I don't see how this new controversy is
going to help his image in the public eye. It will cause damage
("Bob Dylan? didn't I hear recently that he stole some songs from
somebody?" - that will be the lasting impression among many people),
but I don't expect that damage to extend here. I never meant that.
D. Ball
In The Wind, Don't Think Twice, It's Alright to name two specific instances.
I don't think this episode will ultimately do any more damage than those
frivolous claims. That being said, in the short term perception is
everything and some people will indeed react as John indicated.
D. Ball
Avylan
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